As a Remainer I would have had more time for them if they simply stated they will honour the result but work towards a softer Brexit with no second vote .
This would at least have been a clear stand and shown some principles. Instead the two year waffle and trying to sit by and pick up the pieces has shown abject leadership .
Make a decision and stand by it , end of . Their current policy is pleasing no one , they’re going to get trashed by Remainers and Leavers .
If you’re going to come out for a second vote make the policy clear , and try to sell it to Leavers . Corbyn is also a big part of the problem and one fluky election result caused by Mays useless campaign has deluded some in Labour to think he could win a future GE.
> @Wulfrun_Phil said: > > @Pulpstar said: > > > @dyedwoolie said: > > > > @Richard_Tyndall said: > > > > Very surprised at the Newark and Sherwood result. Tories gained 3 seats and Labour lost 5. > > > > > > Palmer will be along to tell us how well labour are doing in notts > > > > They have indeed done well in Bassetlaw as a counterweight to Newark. > > > > Lab gain 4, Con losses 7. > > A Leave voting town with a Leave voting Labour MP.
There are plenty of those where the Tories still got hammered. I notice that in N&S the Conservatives listed themselves as 'Local Conservatives'. I find it hard to believe that such an obvious ploy would have much effect but I don't know if this was a widespread tactic
> @Nigelb said: > So what moniker should I use for Gavin Williamson? > > > > Disgraced national security risk is already used for Liam Fox, or is Gav the Miles Morales to Liam's Peter Parker? > > Huawei Hero, of course! > > > if we're alliterating, then Cashiered Cretin, perhaps.
> @Sunil_Prasannan said: > > @Sunil_Prasannan said: > > > > @Sunil_Prasannan said: > > > > > > > 26.4%, Tories stemming the ratio of flow of losses > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tory losses now exceed 800 seats > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they will end up over 1300 down, maybe even over 1400. > > > > > > Tories just lost their 30th council. > > > > Which will happen first; Tories go -1000 or Labour go -100? > > Or even LDs +500
Today's results will surely push the Cons and Labour towards a Brexit deal. They show beyond doubt that both Tory Remainers and Labour Leavers are deserting the party in droves.
> @not_on_fire said: > Today's results will surely push the Cons and Labour towards a Brexit deal. They show beyond doubt that both Tory Remainers and Labour Leavers are deserting the party in droves.
> @Peter_the_Punter said: > BBC reports 'Only Tory councillor in Northern Ireland eliminated.' > > I think it just means he was beaten in the election.
> @OblitusSumMe said: > > @Cicero said: > > > @TGOHF said: > > > Indies and green have gained more than the LDs. > > > > > > Suggests the LDs shouldnt get too excited. > > > > No they haven't. The Lib Dems have gained over 450 as i write, while Greens have gained 102 and Others 150. > > BBC reporting Independents up 370. The figures are a bit different depending where you look. What's your source?
> @kinabalu said: > > @TGOHF said: > > Not me - no street needs or wants a bookies- no upside to having one. > > Nor any need - bet online. > > * > > You're right of course. But still, the warm fug of the shop on a freezing day, a haven from the nagging wife, the surly yet affectionate camaraderie with the other punters, all of them hiding from someone or something, the companionable silence broken only by the chesty coughs and grunts of mild disappointment as another dog or horse fails to deliver, and tickets get screwed up and tossed to the floor - this is a slice of England that will soon be no more and it merits a wistful mention.
The manic despairing wail as some poor fecker who's pumped a month's Universal Credit into a FOBT realises it's only the 2nd of that month.
> @nico67 said: > Labour are getting what they deserve . > > As a Remainer I would have had more time for them if they simply stated they will honour the result but work towards a softer Brexit with no second vote . > > This would at least have been a clear stand and shown some principles. Instead the two year waffle and trying to sit by and pick up the pieces has shown abject leadership . > > Make a decision and stand by it , end of . Their current policy is pleasing no one , they’re going to get trashed by Remainers and Leavers . > > If you’re going to come out for a second vote make the policy clear , and try to sell it to Leavers . Corbyn is also a big part of the problem and one fluky election result caused by Mays useless campaign has deluded some in Labour to think he could win a future GE.
Travelled down that path, Nico, and reached about the same conclusion as you. It's too late now though. They would lack credibility if they did swing behind a second vote at this late stage.
> @Peter_the_Punter said: > BBC reports 'Only Tory councillor in Northern Ireland eliminated.' > > I think it just means he was beaten in the election.
> @Peter_the_Punter said: > BBC reports 'Only Tory councillor in Northern Ireland eliminated.' > > I think it just means he was beaten in the election.
Only Tory on Leicester City Council also gone.
Interesting to see how the kippers have fared in Brexity Essex. Oh dear...
> @Foxy said: > > @Peter_the_Punter said: > > BBC reports 'Only Tory councillor in Northern Ireland eliminated.' > > > > I think it just means he was beaten in the election. > > Only Tory on Leicester City Council also gone. > > Interesting to see how the kippers have fared in Brexity Essex. Oh dear... > > https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1124259493758550016?s=19
Thurrock Independents are the local branch of UKIP.
calculated from dissolution of council. BBC from last election. not saying one is right and one is wrong. just different. think some councillors maybe went independent in the interim so their increase is less using the former basis.
> @Pulpstar said: > > @Sunil_Prasannan said: > > Labour improving slightly, only 86 losses now. > > > > Tories roughly TEN TIMES the losses = 855 > > My other half voted blue for the first time ever this election - she's going Green for the Euros though.
I wonder if anyone's thought of 'voting snooker'? Vote Labour (red), Green, Labour, Tory (blue), etc...
Ah, interesting. The BBC figures are compared to 2015, whereas the Press Association figures used by the Guardian are compared to dissolution. The large difference suggests that there are many Independents who were sitting councillors elected in 2015 for one of the parties.
> @Sunil_Prasannan said: > Labour improving slightly, only 86 losses now. > > Tories roughly TEN TIMES the losses = 855
Tories have a lot more seats to lose... But most importantly Labour should be making major gains here not losing seats they held in the already dire 2015 election.
This is a terrible performance for Labour but obviously Con have done much, much worse.
> @tlg86 said: > > @Cicero said: > > Yes commiserations to JohnO. I must admit to great surprise that Surrey- SURREY- has swung in quite the way it has. It was clearly nothing personal. > > It's not that surprising. There's no point voting Tory when they give you the choice of building on the green belt or high rise tower blocks. The Lib Dems might not do anything different, but I can see why people wouldn't bother voting Tory.
> @Sunil_Prasannan said: > > @Sunil_Prasannan said: > > > > @Sunil_Prasannan said: > > > > > > > 26.4%, Tories stemming the ratio of flow of losses > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tory losses now exceed 800 seats > > > > > > > > > > > > I think they will end up over 1300 down, maybe even over 1400. > > > > > > Tories just lost their 30th council. > > > > Which will happen first; Tories go -1000 or Labour go -100? > > Or even LDs +500
"This is not about sending “signals” to the government. This is the end for the Conservative Party. Once Tory MPs grasp and internalise that, there will be a flood of defections. Better jump soon, folks. You aren’t going to want to look like the last rat fleeing the sinking Tory ship."
> @Pulpstar said: > > @Sunil_Prasannan said: > > Labour improving slightly, only 86 losses now. > > > > Tories roughly TEN TIMES the losses = 855 > > My other half voted blue for the first time ever this election - she's going Green for the Euros though.
> @MarqueeMark said: > > @tlg86 said: > > > @Cicero said: > > > Yes commiserations to JohnO. I must admit to great surprise that Surrey- SURREY- has swung in quite the way it has. It was clearly nothing personal. > > > > It's not that surprising. There's no point voting Tory when they give you the choice of building on the green belt or high rise tower blocks. The Lib Dems might not do anything different, but I can see why people wouldn't bother voting Tory. > > This is what a Tory vote strike looks like.
Is there really a Tory vote strike? Turnout seems respectable for local elections.
> @Foxy said: > > > > @MarqueeMark said: > > > @tlg86 said: > > > > @Cicero said: > > > > Yes commiserations to JohnO. I must admit to great surprise that Surrey- SURREY- has swung in quite the way it has. It was clearly nothing personal. > > > > > > It's not that surprising. There's no point voting Tory when they give you the choice of building on the green belt or high rise tower blocks. The Lib Dems might not do anything different, but I can see why people wouldn't bother voting Tory. > > > > This is what a Tory vote strike looks like. > > Is there really a Tory vote strike? Turnout seems respectable for local elections.
These seats were last fought on the day the Tories won a general election that made David Cameron PM of a Conservative (ie non-LibDem Coalition) Govt. Tories had a reason to come out that day. Yesterday? Not so much.....
> @Foxy said: > > > > @MarqueeMark said: > > > @tlg86 said: > > > > @Cicero said: > > > > Yes commiserations to JohnO. I must admit to great surprise that Surrey- SURREY- has swung in quite the way it has. It was clearly nothing personal. > > > > > > It's not that surprising. There's no point voting Tory when they give you the choice of building on the green belt or high rise tower blocks. The Lib Dems might not do anything different, but I can see why people wouldn't bother voting Tory. > > > > This is what a Tory vote strike looks like. > > Is there really a Tory vote strike? Turnout seems respectable for local elections.
Sky have confirmed that the turnout at about 33% is consistent with locals
> @GIN1138 said: > > @nunuone said: > > People on here told me there's no way the Tories were going to lose 1,000 seats.....hmmmmm > > Not me. I tipped 1000 lost seats for the Tories... > > @HYUFD said no way.
Most were going for my benchmarks - 500/800. A thousand is bad, but how bad is being obscured by Labour's underperformance.
Peter Alfred Soulsby Labour Party 51444 Sandip Verma The Conservative Party Candidate 14519 Mags Lewis The Green Party 6659 Nigel Carl Porter Liberal Democrats 4101 Stuart Ian Eric Young UK Independence Party (UKIP) 3526 Sanjay Prem Gogia Independent 2445 Stephen Derek Score Socialist Alternative 1643
> @Theuniondivvie said: > > The manic despairing wail as some poor fecker who's pumped a month's Universal Credit into a FOBT realises it's only the 2nd of that month.
*
Indeed so. I left out those bits so as not to spoil the atmosphere. Dreadful things, the FOBTs in shops, and £100 a pop, I could scarcely believe that when I found out about it.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @Foxy said: > > > > > > > @MarqueeMark said: > > > > @tlg86 said: > > > > > @Cicero said: > > > > > Yes commiserations to JohnO. I must admit to great surprise that Surrey- SURREY- has swung in quite the way it has. It was clearly nothing personal. > > > > > > > > It's not that surprising. There's no point voting Tory when they give you the choice of building on the green belt or high rise tower blocks. The Lib Dems might not do anything different, but I can see why people wouldn't bother voting Tory. > > > > > > This is what a Tory vote strike looks like. > > > > Is there really a Tory vote strike? Turnout seems respectable for local elections. > > Sky have confirmed that the turnout at about 33% is consistent with locals
Doesn't mean its the same 33% as normally turn out
You're right of course. But still, the warm fug of the shop on a freezing day, a haven from the nagging wife, the surly yet affectionate camaraderie with the other punters, all of them hiding from someone or something, the companionable silence broken only by the chesty coughs and grunts of mild disappointment as another dog or horse fails to deliver, and tickets get screwed up and tossed to the floor - this is a slice of England that will soon be no more and it merits a wistful mention.
As @isam has said not any more. I used to go to watch the racing quite often in betting shops (and used, for example, to see an ancient old boy, ex-cavalry officer, who went every day to watch also - it was probably all he had) and everyone knew each other, well the regulars.
These days that has all gone with the greater likelihood of being hit (prior to the change in law) by the shattered glass of one of the FOBT machines being attacked. With cartoon racing playing all the while to keep people in the shop playing the machines.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > Hilary Benn is correct when he says the HOC have either to decide to pass the WDA or put TM deal to the country in a referendum > > I actually agree with him
Or ditch May , propose a better deal and take it to the EU.
> @TGOHF said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > Hilary Benn is correct when he says the HOC have either to decide to pass the WDA or put TM deal to the country in a referendum > > > > I actually agree with him > > Or ditch May , propose a better deal and take it to the EU. > >
Not going to happen. Brexiteers have no place to go but accept the deal or face no brexit
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @TGOHF said: > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > Hilary Benn is correct when he says the HOC have either to decide to pass the WDA or put TM deal to the country in a referendum > > > > > > I actually agree with him > > > > Or ditch May , propose a better deal and take it to the EU. > > > > > > Not going to happen. Brexiteers have no place to go but accept the deal or face no brexit > > TM going will not change any of that
> @TGOHF said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @TGOHF said: > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > Hilary Benn is correct when he says the HOC have either to decide to pass the WDA or put TM deal to the country in a referendum > > > > > > > > I actually agree with him > > > > > > Or ditch May , propose a better deal and take it to the EU. > > > > > > > > > > Not going to happen. Brexiteers have no place to go but accept the deal or face no brexit > > > > TM going will not change any of that > > Wrong.
> @RobD said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > @TGOHF said: > > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > Hilary Benn is correct when he says the HOC have either to decide to pass the WDA or put TM deal to the country in a referendum > > > > > > > > > > I actually agree with him > > > > > > > > Or ditch May , propose a better deal and take it to the EU. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not going to happen. Brexiteers have no place to go but accept the deal or face no brexit > > > > > > TM going will not change any of that > > > > Wrong. > > And if the EU say no?
Then they need to be ready for a no deal backed by a GE.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @TGOHF said: > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > @TGOHF said: > > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > Hilary Benn is correct when he says the HOC have either to decide to pass the WDA or put TM deal to the country in a referendum > > > > > > > > > > I actually agree with him > > > > > > > > Or ditch May , propose a better deal and take it to the EU. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not going to happen. Brexiteers have no place to go but accept the deal or face no brexit > > > > > > TM going will not change any of that > > > > Wrong. > > Grasping at straws
The alternative is for May to limp on losing vote after vote until she loses her majority and the Con party is removed from office - probably permanently.
As bad as these results are for the Tories, I believe the underlying sentiment is a lot worse.
Tory vote (and to a lesser extent Labour) is flattered in these elections with the Brexit Party not on the ballot, in large because of depressed turnout.
I suspect in reality Tory support is now sitting in the low 20s.
> As @isam has said not any more. I used to go to watch the racing quite often in betting shops (and used, for example, to see an ancient old boy, ex-cavalry officer, who went every day to watch also - it was probably all he had) and everyone knew each other, well the regulars. > > These days that has all gone with the greater likelihood of being hit (prior to the change in law) by the shattered glass of one of the FOBT machines being attacked. With cartoon racing playing all the while to keep people in the shop playing the machines.
No not great places now. One I visit now and again is in St John's Wood - nice area - but still the shop is not a place to dwell. A glaring exception to the general rule that things are better than they used to be.
> @TGOHF said: > > @RobD said: > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > > @TGOHF said: > > > > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > > > Hilary Benn is correct when he says the HOC have either to decide to pass the WDA or put TM deal to the country in a referendum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually agree with him > > > > > > > > > > > > Or ditch May , propose a better deal and take it to the EU. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not going to happen. Brexiteers have no place to go but accept the deal or face no brexit > > > > > > > > > > TM going will not change any of that > > > > > > > > Wrong. > > > > And if the EU say no? > > Then they need to be ready for a no deal backed by a GE.
Comments
socialism
blah blah
liberal capitalism
blah blah
delivering
the live feed from Newcastle goes down
As a Remainer I would have had more time for them if they simply stated they will honour the result but work towards a softer Brexit with no second vote .
This would at least have been a clear stand and shown some principles. Instead the two year waffle and trying to sit by and pick up the pieces has shown abject leadership .
Make a decision and stand by it , end of . Their current policy is pleasing no one , they’re going to get trashed by Remainers and Leavers .
If you’re going to come out for a second vote make the policy clear , and try to sell it to Leavers . Corbyn is also a big part of the problem and one fluky election result caused by Mays useless campaign has deluded some in Labour to think he could win a future GE.
I think it just means he was beaten in the election.
> > @Pulpstar said:
> > > @dyedwoolie said:
> > > > @Richard_Tyndall said:
> > > > Very surprised at the Newark and Sherwood result. Tories gained 3 seats and Labour lost 5.
> > >
> > > Palmer will be along to tell us how well labour are doing in notts
> >
> > They have indeed done well in Bassetlaw as a counterweight to Newark.
> >
> > Lab gain 4, Con losses 7.
>
> A Leave voting town with a Leave voting Labour MP.
There are plenty of those where the Tories still got hammered. I notice that in N&S the Conservatives listed themselves as 'Local Conservatives'. I find it hard to believe that such an obvious ploy would have much effect but I don't know if this was a widespread tactic
> So what moniker should I use for Gavin Williamson?
>
>
>
> Disgraced national security risk is already used for Liam Fox, or is Gav the Miles Morales to Liam's Peter Parker?
>
> Huawei Hero, of course!
>
>
> if we're alliterating, then Cashiered Cretin, perhaps.
Willie Wanka too crude I suppose?
> > @Sunil_Prasannan said:
>
> > > @Sunil_Prasannan said:
>
> >
>
> > > 26.4%, Tories stemming the ratio of flow of losses
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Tory losses now exceed 800 seats
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I think they will end up over 1300 down, maybe even over 1400.
>
> >
>
> > Tories just lost their 30th council.
>
>
>
> Which will happen first; Tories go -1000 or Labour go -100?
>
> Or even LDs +500
that is imminent.
https://twitter.com/HarboroughDC/status/1124317549536186368?s=19
https://twitter.com/vangelispoly/status/1124303907935719424?s=21
> Today's results will surely push the Cons and Labour towards a Brexit deal. They show beyond doubt that both Tory Remainers and Labour Leavers are deserting the party in droves.
And Tory leavers sitting it out.
> BBC reports 'Only Tory councillor in Northern Ireland eliminated.'
>
> I think it just means he was beaten in the election.
almost used the like button there. but resisted.
> > @Cicero said:
> > > @TGOHF said:
> > > Indies and green have gained more than the LDs.
> > >
> > > Suggests the LDs shouldnt get too excited.
> >
> > No they haven't. The Lib Dems have gained over 450 as i write, while Greens have gained 102 and Others 150.
>
> BBC reporting Independents up 370. The figures are a bit different depending where you look. What's your source?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/may/02/local-elections-2019-live-results-for-english-councils
> > @TGOHF said:
>
> Not me - no street needs or wants a bookies- no upside to having one.
>
> Nor any need - bet online.
>
> *
>
> You're right of course. But still, the warm fug of the shop on a freezing day, a haven from the nagging wife, the surly yet affectionate camaraderie with the other punters, all of them hiding from someone or something, the companionable silence broken only by the chesty coughs and grunts of mild disappointment as another dog or horse fails to deliver, and tickets get screwed up and tossed to the floor - this is a slice of England that will soon be no more and it merits a wistful mention.
The manic despairing wail as some poor fecker who's pumped a month's Universal Credit into a FOBT realises it's only the 2nd of that month.
> Labour are getting what they deserve .
>
> As a Remainer I would have had more time for them if they simply stated they will honour the result but work towards a softer Brexit with no second vote .
>
> This would at least have been a clear stand and shown some principles. Instead the two year waffle and trying to sit by and pick up the pieces has shown abject leadership .
>
> Make a decision and stand by it , end of . Their current policy is pleasing no one , they’re going to get trashed by Remainers and Leavers .
>
> If you’re going to come out for a second vote make the policy clear , and try to sell it to Leavers . Corbyn is also a big part of the problem and one fluky election result caused by Mays useless campaign has deluded some in Labour to think he could win a future GE.
Travelled down that path, Nico, and reached about the same conclusion as you. It's too late now though. They would lack credibility if they did swing behind a second vote at this late stage.
> > @OblitusSumMe said:
> > > @Cicero said:
> > > > @TGOHF said:
> > > > Indies and green have gained more than the LDs.
> > > >
> > > > Suggests the LDs shouldnt get too excited.
> > >
> > > No they haven't. The Lib Dems have gained over 450 as i write, while Greens have gained 102 and Others 150.
> >
> > BBC reporting Independents up 370. The figures are a bit different depending where you look. What's your source?
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/may/02/local-elections-2019-live-results-for-english-councils
>
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/ceeqy0e9894t/england-local-elections-2019 more up to date.
> BBC reports 'Only Tory councillor in Northern Ireland eliminated.'
>
> I think it just means he was beaten in the election.
Or shat out of the body politic of NI.
> > @OblitusSumMe said:
> > > @Cicero said:
> > > > @TGOHF said:
> > > > Indies and green have gained more than the LDs.
> > > >
> > > > Suggests the LDs shouldnt get too excited.
> > >
> > > No they haven't. The Lib Dems have gained over 450 as i write, while Greens have gained 102 and Others 150.
> >
> > BBC reporting Independents up 370. The figures are a bit different depending where you look. What's your source?
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/may/02/local-elections-2019-live-results-for-english-councils
>
It's possible that one or other may not be factoring in changes in numbers from four years ago, or redistricting.
> Labour improving slightly, only 86 losses now.
>
> Tories roughly TEN TIMES the losses = 855
My other half voted blue for the first time ever this election
> BBC reports 'Only Tory councillor in Northern Ireland eliminated.'
>
> I think it just means he was beaten in the election.
Only Tory on Leicester City Council also gone.
Interesting to see how the kippers have fared in Brexity Essex. Oh dear...
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1124259493758550016?s=19
> Looks like @Icarus of this board has not made it.
>
> https://twitter.com/HarboroughDC/status/1124317549536186368?s=19
Shame. Terrific poster.
> People on here told me there's no way the Tories were going to lose 1,000 seats.....hmmmmm
Not me. I tipped 1000 lost seats for the Tories...
@HYUFD said no way.
> > @Peter_the_Punter said:
> > BBC reports 'Only Tory councillor in Northern Ireland eliminated.'
> >
> > I think it just means he was beaten in the election.
>
> Only Tory on Leicester City Council also gone.
>
> Interesting to see how the kippers have fared in Brexity Essex. Oh dear...
>
> https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1124259493758550016?s=19
Thurrock Independents are the local branch of UKIP.
> > @OblitusSumMe said:
> > > @Cicero said:
> > > > @TGOHF said:
> > > > Indies and green have gained more than the LDs.
> > > >
> > > > Suggests the LDs shouldnt get too excited.
> > >
> > > No they haven't. The Lib Dems have gained over 450 as i write, while Greens have gained 102 and Others 150.
> >
> > BBC reporting Independents up 370. The figures are a bit different depending where you look. What's your source?
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/may/02/local-elections-2019-live-results-for-english-councils
>
calculated from dissolution of council. BBC from last election. not saying one is right and one is wrong. just different. think some councillors maybe went independent in the interim so their increase is less using the former basis.
> > @Sunil_Prasannan said:
> > Labour improving slightly, only 86 losses now.
> >
> > Tories roughly TEN TIMES the losses = 855
>
> My other half voted blue for the first time ever this election
I wonder if anyone's thought of 'voting snooker'? Vote Labour (red), Green, Labour, Tory (blue), etc...
> > @OblitusSumMe said:
> > > @Cicero said:
> > > > @TGOHF said:
> > > > Indies and green have gained more than the LDs.
> > > >
> > > > Suggests the LDs shouldnt get too excited.
> > >
> > > No they haven't. The Lib Dems have gained over 450 as i write, while Greens have gained 102 and Others 150.
> >
> > BBC reporting Independents up 370. The figures are a bit different depending where you look. What's your source?
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/may/02/local-elections-2019-live-results-for-english-councils
>
Ah, interesting. The BBC figures are compared to 2015, whereas the Press Association figures used by the Guardian are compared to dissolution. The large difference suggests that there are many Independents who were sitting councillors elected in 2015 for one of the parties.
> Labour improving slightly, only 86 losses now.
>
> Tories roughly TEN TIMES the losses = 855
Tories have a lot more seats to lose... But most importantly Labour should be making major gains here not losing seats they held in the already dire 2015 election.
This is a terrible performance for Labour but obviously Con have done much, much worse.
> > @Cicero said:
> > Yes commiserations to JohnO. I must admit to great surprise that Surrey- SURREY- has swung in quite the way it has. It was clearly nothing personal.
>
> It's not that surprising. There's no point voting Tory when they give you the choice of building on the green belt or high rise tower blocks. The Lib Dems might not do anything different, but I can see why people wouldn't bother voting Tory.
This is what a Tory vote strike looks like.
> > @Sunil_Prasannan said:
>
> > > @Sunil_Prasannan said:
>
> >
>
> > > 26.4%, Tories stemming the ratio of flow of losses
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Tory losses now exceed 800 seats
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I think they will end up over 1300 down, maybe even over 1400.
>
> >
>
> > Tories just lost their 30th council.
>
>
>
> Which will happen first; Tories go -1000 or Labour go -100?
>
> Or even LDs +500
there now.
"This is not about sending “signals” to the government. This is the end for the Conservative Party. Once Tory MPs grasp and internalise that, there will be a flood of defections. Better jump soon, folks. You aren’t going to want to look like the last rat fleeing the sinking Tory ship."
> > @Sunil_Prasannan said:
> > Labour improving slightly, only 86 losses now.
> >
> > Tories roughly TEN TIMES the losses = 855
>
> My other half voted blue for the first time ever this election
She's one of us now, tainted for life.
OTOH fine pie production looks secure ....
> Icarus (Lib Dem) was 2nd - 39% of the vote in Misterton ward - Market Harborough
>
Good try, young man. Better luck next time.
> > @tlg86 said:
> > > @Cicero said:
> > > Yes commiserations to JohnO. I must admit to great surprise that Surrey- SURREY- has swung in quite the way it has. It was clearly nothing personal.
> >
> > It's not that surprising. There's no point voting Tory when they give you the choice of building on the green belt or high rise tower blocks. The Lib Dems might not do anything different, but I can see why people wouldn't bother voting Tory.
>
> This is what a Tory vote strike looks like.
Is there really a Tory vote strike? Turnout seems respectable for local elections.
> Icarus (Lib Dem) was 2nd - 39% of the vote in Misterton ward - Market Harborough
>
PB curse strikes again .... JohnO sunk too !!
> Icarus (Lib Dem) was 2nd - 39% of the vote in Misterton ward - Market Harborough
>
Sorry to hear it confirmed. Quite high turnout I think.
> North of Tyne mayor
> Round II
>
> Driscoll (Momentum/Lab) 76,862 votes.
>
> Hoult (Con) 60,089
A pretty dire Labour result in what was once a stronghold.
By contrast, in GM in 2017, without transfers, Andy Burnham got 60% on round 1 at a time when Labour was still well behind in the polls.
>
>
> > @MarqueeMark said:
> > > @tlg86 said:
> > > > @Cicero said:
> > > > Yes commiserations to JohnO. I must admit to great surprise that Surrey- SURREY- has swung in quite the way it has. It was clearly nothing personal.
> > >
> > > It's not that surprising. There's no point voting Tory when they give you the choice of building on the green belt or high rise tower blocks. The Lib Dems might not do anything different, but I can see why people wouldn't bother voting Tory.
> >
> > This is what a Tory vote strike looks like.
>
> Is there really a Tory vote strike? Turnout seems respectable for local elections.
These seats were last fought on the day the Tories won a general election that made David Cameron PM of a Conservative (ie non-LibDem Coalition) Govt. Tories had a reason to come out that day. Yesterday? Not so much.....
>
>
> > @MarqueeMark said:
> > > @tlg86 said:
> > > > @Cicero said:
> > > > Yes commiserations to JohnO. I must admit to great surprise that Surrey- SURREY- has swung in quite the way it has. It was clearly nothing personal.
> > >
> > > It's not that surprising. There's no point voting Tory when they give you the choice of building on the green belt or high rise tower blocks. The Lib Dems might not do anything different, but I can see why people wouldn't bother voting Tory.
> >
> > This is what a Tory vote strike looks like.
>
> Is there really a Tory vote strike? Turnout seems respectable for local elections.
Sky have confirmed that the turnout at about 33% is consistent with locals
> > @nunuone said:
> > People on here told me there's no way the Tories were going to lose 1,000 seats.....hmmmmm
>
> Not me. I tipped 1000 lost seats for the Tories...
>
> @HYUFD said no way.
Most were going for my benchmarks - 500/800. A thousand is bad, but how bad is being obscured by Labour's underperformance.
Peter Alfred Soulsby Labour Party 51444
Sandip Verma The Conservative Party Candidate 14519
Mags Lewis The Green Party 6659
Nigel Carl Porter Liberal Democrats 4101
Stuart Ian Eric Young UK Independence Party (UKIP) 3526
Sanjay Prem Gogia Independent 2445
Stephen Derek Score Socialist Alternative 1643
Soulsby re-elected on first preferences with 61%
>
> The manic despairing wail as some poor fecker who's pumped a month's Universal Credit into a FOBT realises it's only the 2nd of that month.
*
Indeed so. I left out those bits so as not to spoil the atmosphere. Dreadful things, the FOBTs in shops, and £100 a pop, I could scarcely believe that when I found out about it.
> > @Foxy said:
> >
> >
> > > @MarqueeMark said:
> > > > @tlg86 said:
> > > > > @Cicero said:
> > > > > Yes commiserations to JohnO. I must admit to great surprise that Surrey- SURREY- has swung in quite the way it has. It was clearly nothing personal.
> > > >
> > > > It's not that surprising. There's no point voting Tory when they give you the choice of building on the green belt or high rise tower blocks. The Lib Dems might not do anything different, but I can see why people wouldn't bother voting Tory.
> > >
> > > This is what a Tory vote strike looks like.
> >
> > Is there really a Tory vote strike? Turnout seems respectable for local elections.
>
> Sky have confirmed that the turnout at about 33% is consistent with locals
Doesn't mean its the same 33% as normally turn out
These days that has all gone with the greater likelihood of being hit (prior to the change in law) by the shattered glass of one of the FOBT machines being attacked. With cartoon racing playing all the while to keep people in the shop playing the machines.
I actually agree with him
> Hilary Benn is correct when he says the HOC have either to decide to pass the WDA or put TM deal to the country in a referendum
>
> I actually agree with him
Or ditch May , propose a better deal and take it to the EU.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > Hilary Benn is correct when he says the HOC have either to decide to pass the WDA or put TM deal to the country in a referendum
> >
> > I actually agree with him
>
> Or ditch May , propose a better deal and take it to the EU.
>
>
Not going to happen. Brexiteers have no place to go but accept the deal or face no brexit
TM going will not change any of that
> > @TGOHF said:
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > Hilary Benn is correct when he says the HOC have either to decide to pass the WDA or put TM deal to the country in a referendum
> > >
> > > I actually agree with him
> >
> > Or ditch May , propose a better deal and take it to the EU.
> >
> >
>
> Not going to happen. Brexiteers have no place to go but accept the deal or face no brexit
>
> TM going will not change any of that
Wrong.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @TGOHF said:
> > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > Hilary Benn is correct when he says the HOC have either to decide to pass the WDA or put TM deal to the country in a referendum
> > > >
> > > > I actually agree with him
> > >
> > > Or ditch May , propose a better deal and take it to the EU.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Not going to happen. Brexiteers have no place to go but accept the deal or face no brexit
> >
> > TM going will not change any of that
>
> Wrong.
Grasping at straws
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
>
> > > @TGOHF said:
>
> > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
>
> > > > Hilary Benn is correct when he says the HOC have either to decide to pass the WDA or put TM deal to the country in a referendum
>
> > > >
>
> > > > I actually agree with him
>
> > >
>
> > > Or ditch May , propose a better deal and take it to the EU.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > Not going to happen. Brexiteers have no place to go but accept the deal or face no brexit
>
> >
>
> > TM going will not change any of that
>
>
>
> Wrong.
>
> And if the EU say no?
Then they need to be ready for a no deal backed by a GE.
> > @TGOHF said:
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > @TGOHF said:
> > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > > Hilary Benn is correct when he says the HOC have either to decide to pass the WDA or put TM deal to the country in a referendum
> > > > >
> > > > > I actually agree with him
> > > >
> > > > Or ditch May , propose a better deal and take it to the EU.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Not going to happen. Brexiteers have no place to go but accept the deal or face no brexit
> > >
> > > TM going will not change any of that
> >
> > Wrong.
>
> Grasping at straws
The alternative is for May to limp on losing vote after vote until she loses her majority and the Con party is removed from office - probably permanently.
Tory vote (and to a lesser extent Labour) is flattered in these elections with the Brexit Party not on the ballot, in large because of depressed turnout.
I suspect in reality Tory support is now sitting in the low 20s.
> As @isam has said not any more. I used to go to watch the racing quite often in betting shops (and used, for example, to see an ancient old boy, ex-cavalry officer, who went every day to watch also - it was probably all he had) and everyone knew each other, well the regulars.
>
> These days that has all gone with the greater likelihood of being hit (prior to the change in law) by the shattered glass of one of the FOBT machines being attacked. With cartoon racing playing all the while to keep people in the shop playing the machines.
No not great places now. One I visit now and again is in St John's Wood - nice area - but still the shop is not a place to dwell. A glaring exception to the general rule that things are better than they used to be.
> > @RobD said:
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> >
> > > > @TGOHF said:
> >
> > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> >
> > > > > Hilary Benn is correct when he says the HOC have either to decide to pass the WDA or put TM deal to the country in a referendum
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > I actually agree with him
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Or ditch May , propose a better deal and take it to the EU.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Not going to happen. Brexiteers have no place to go but accept the deal or face no brexit
> >
> > >
> >
> > > TM going will not change any of that
> >
> >
> >
> > Wrong.
> >
> > And if the EU say no?
>
> Then they need to be ready for a no deal backed by a GE.
No deal will not happen