So after 7 hours the Cabinet has decided Jezza runs the country?
Weak. Weak. Weak.
She is weak. Everyone knows that. We've known it takes Labour votes to pass anything for months.
We need May gone as soon as possible, but some of this astonishment that she is admitting she is weak is coming off as phony, as though admitting it makes it true for the first time.
To borrow a phrase, nothing has changed, except that May is being more honest about her weakness.
Hearing this on way home. It's rarely a good move for a prime Minister to treat the LOTO as an equal. May is giving Corbyn an authority and a legitimacy he doesn't have currently and doesn't deserve.
This is risky stuff from Theresa. She doesn't want Jezza to look like the messiah striding into Number Ten, poised to salvage Brexit and the nation with it.
That's exactly what they've done.
We just need a confirmatory general election to cement Jezza into his rightful position as PM at the moment he's PM in all but name...
Labour will not fall for this. Is this what 7 hours has produced?
If so they will be traduced by the public
In what way? I genuinely don't get it.
If Corbyn refuses to cooperate he will carry the can
I don't think this is true. He's got away with his intransigence for ages already. I'm surprised that she's taken a punt on this if he hasn't agreed to it already though.
What she has done is to put herself forward as national saviour, rather than simply Tory PM. She's safe from a Tory leadership bid, and she seems to think that changing to this cooperative position will insulate her from a VoNC.
The DUP will probably abandon her though, so it will be a minority govt.
Hearing this on way home. It's rarely a good move for a prime Minister to treat the LOTO as an equal. May is giving Corbyn an authority and a legitimacy he doesn't have currently and doesn't deserve.
I am not sure that is what happened although it is the Sky spin.
May said that we could make a success of No Deal but she was going to try this first. If this fails then the No Deal option is still on the table. And there are so many ways this can fail.
I agree. Quite a change in tone from how she normally dismisses no deal.
In fact “I often say we can make a success of no deal” 😮 that’s just a damn lie
U turns are never popular at best of times, she’s even managing to U turn in two different directions at once? Adopt Labours red lines for the PD and talking up making no deal a success.
Labour will not fall for this. Is this what 7 hours has produced?
If so they will be traduced by the public
In what way? I genuinely don't get it.
If Corbyn refuses to cooperate he will carry the can
Some of you have read this very wrong if you think this drops Labour in it. Those of you who say brexiteers won’t be happy are spot on. She’s just clearly said looking for softer brexit and new red lines to get a deal.
And what’s May’s party going to do now May goes that way? Moves the red lines.
She’s toast.
TM had a decision to take and on the biggest one since WW2 she has put the UK interests first
There will be consequences and for once 'things have changed'
She's ducked the real decision, which was to choose between a soft Brexit and a second referendum.
Rather ironically that choice now sits with Labour. Big PV bust-up incoming..
Would have worked better if parliament had already voted for it, made it less bending to Corbyn more bending to Parliament (albeit off the back of Labour votes). Fine distinctions.
Tories will be going nuts, how many Cabinet resignations seems pretty key to how things play out.
The one tactical strength she has left is that the Tory Party cannot shift her.
I expect the shit head wing of the Tory party (Francois, Baker, Bridgen et al) to vote against the government in a confidence motion now.
Then if Corbyn is clever he should table a VONC now?
This is Corbyn's chance to act in the national interest and the nation is watching
No they aren't. The nation is bored of Brexit. They don't care. All they know is that Tory government = shambles.
No big g Corbyn merely appears with big smile of a winner and says “yes let’s talk softer brexit. Wait a minute where are you Tess? She hasn’t been seen in public for a few days what have they done to her?” 😮
This is risky stuff from Theresa. She doesn't want Jezza to look like the messiah striding into Number Ten, poised to salvage Brexit and the nation with it.
Yeah, but neither do about 70% of Labour voters, so swings and roundabouts.
Labour will not fall for this. Is this what 7 hours has produced?
If so they will be traduced by the public
In what way? I genuinely don't get it.
If Corbyn refuses to cooperate he will carry the can
Some of you have read this very wrong if you think this drops Labour in it. Those of you who say brexiteers won’t be happy are spot on. She’s just clearly said looking for softer brexit and new red lines to get a deal.
And what’s May’s party going to do now May goes that way? Moves the red lines.
She’s toast.
TM had a decision to take and on the biggest one since WW2 she has put the UK interests first
There will be consequences and for once 'things have changed'
I think she’s generally useless and should have seen this was on the cards much sooner but fair play to her today - she’s finally taken a step towards consensus. The party will hate her for it (the Tory MacDonald anyone?, but if she pulls it off then she will salvage some of the reputation she’s badly lost over the last couple of years.
As it sinks in, remember the precedent is 1940. Corbyn can only agree to this with a national government and if he nominates which Tory is the next PM.
So faced with the alternative of agreeing a CU plan themselves, the Cabinet would rather go begging to Labour AND agree CU. And possibly face PV pressure as well
If May has a strategy to avoid a historic split in the Tory party it must be death by a thousand cuts. She'll try to avoid a dramatic decision until it's forced on her.
Would have worked better if parliament had already voted for it, made it less bending to Corbyn more bending to Parliament (albeit off the back of Labour votes). Fine distinctions.
Tories will be going nuts, how many Cabinet resignations seems pretty key to how things play out.
I disagree with Mr Herdson until he explains what her party is doing whilst she sits down and signs up to Corbyns Brexit. Do they let her get away with that.
I am not sure that is what happened although it is the Sky spin.
May said that we could make a success of No Deal but she was going to try this first. If this fails then the No Deal option is still on the table. And there are so many ways this can fail.
That’s what the ERG will cling onto as an excuse for their obstinacy.
Oh don't get me wrong i am not saying i want No Deal. Just that the Sky Spin is not necessarily fact.
Just look at what is already being said on here. We have some claiming Sky said Leadsom is looking like resigning. They said nothng of the sort. Rigby just listed the hard Brexiteers in the cabinet and speculated they would be unhappy and might resign.
Labour will not fall for this. Is this what 7 hours has produced?
If so they will be traduced by the public
In what way? I genuinely don't get it.
If Corbyn refuses to cooperate he will carry the can
Some of you have read this very wrong if you think this drops Labour in it. Those of you who say brexiteers won’t be happy are spot on. She’s just clearly said looking for softer brexit and new red lines to get a deal.
And what’s May’s party going to do now May goes that way? Moves the red lines.
She’s toast.
TM had a decision to take and on the biggest one since WW2 she has put the UK interests first...
The EU will not agree to an extension to 22 May. Period. Because the Euros will not have been held, it will be a true cliff edge and unlikely to be met. Even a last minute revoke is problematic if we have no MEPs.
The EU will insist on a long extension and the UK taking part in the Euros while a deal is thrashed out.
Euro election this year at 1.46 on Betfair is good value.
Very smart from May - and exactly the right thing to do. I am actually a little bit emotional. She has put the country first.
But what is this supposed to achieve? Assuming that the EU grants the extension, talks with Corbyn will achieve nothing. How this will most likely end is with a few weeks of can-kicking, followed by yet another attempt to get the Withdrawal Agreement to pass.
I'm very sceptical about this. My husband, on the other hand, thinks that after the talks with Corbyn fail, this will end with a Government-sponsored round of indicative votes and Deal+CU will eventually pass. We'll see which, if either, of us is right. Eventually.
As I say in another post, I am probably being incredibly naive, but I heard her ruling out No Deal. If that has happened we are going to get a softer Brexit and in the absence of us staying in the EU - which is out of the question - that is very good news.
If we contest the European elections we will probably still be in the EU in a decade in a zombie trance with May still chanting 'nothing has changed' 'Brexit means Brexit' and Corbyn still unable to decide what he really wants to do on Brexit either
Another fool then - he doesn't think they are in peril already? Tory MPs have to suck it up. Either you get a Brexit you don't like or you quit like Boles and take your chances what happens with government and Brexit.
Labour will not fall for this. Is this what 7 hours has produced?
If so they will be traduced by the public
In what way? I genuinely don't get it.
If Corbyn refuses to cooperate he will carry the can
Some of you have read this very wrong if you think this drops Labour in it. Those of you who say brexiteers won’t be happy are spot on. She’s just clearly said looking for softer brexit and new red lines to get a deal.
And what’s May’s party going to do now May goes that way? Moves the red lines.
She’s toast.
The only card I think that the Brexiteers have left to play is to seek an immediate "indicative" vote of confidence amongst Conservative MPs in May's leadership. Yes it's only 4 months since the last real one, but is there anything in the rules of the Conservative Party that would forbid such a course if enough MPs pressed for it? Obviously in contrast to the vote in December May wouldn't be formally required to resign if she lost it, but in practice could she really try and carry on?
I am not sure that is what happened although it is the Sky spin.
May said that we could make a success of No Deal but she was going to try this first. If this fails then the No Deal option is still on the table. And there are so many ways this can fail.
That’s what the ERG will cling onto as an excuse for their obstinacy.
Oh don't get me wrong i am not saying i want No Deal. Just that the Sky Spin is not necessarily fact.
Just look at what is already being said on here. We have some claiming Sky said Leadsom is looking like resigning. They said nothng of the sort. Rigby just listed the hard Brexiteers in the cabinet and speculated they would be unhappy and might resign.
Perhaps you need to recheck the dictionary definition of the word 'may'
The one tactical strength she has left is that the Tory Party cannot shift her.
I expect the shit head wing of the Tory party (Francois, Baker, Bridgen et al) to vote against the government in a confidence motion now.
Then if Corbyn is clever he should table a VONC now?
This is Corbyn's chance to act in the national interest and the nation is watching
He is unlikely to take the offer of the sh** sandwich she is serving up to him. If he has any sense he will give her an offer that suits him and take it or leave it. Everyone knows we are where we are due to her stupidity and stubborness. Too late to pass the buck now.
The EU will not agree to an extension to 22 May. Period. Because the Euros will not have been held, it will be a true cliff edge and unlikely to be met. Even a last minute revoke is problematic if we have no MEPs.
The EU will insist on a long extension and the UK taking part in the Euros while a deal is thrashed out.
Euro election this year at 1.46 on Betfair is good value.
Sky's Mark Stone has said there will be no problem to an extension to the 22nd May
But the no deal fantasists can just STFU now . It’s not happening and the ERG overplayed their hand and get their just deserts .
Poetic justice for Francois, we could have left the EU by now with a Deal had he backed it from the start, now we are in for indefinite EU membership potentially
I am not sure that is what happened although it is the Sky spin.
May said that we could make a success of No Deal but she was going to try this first. If this fails then the No Deal option is still on the table. And there are so many ways this can fail.
That’s what the ERG will cling onto as an excuse for their obstinacy.
Oh don't get me wrong i am not saying i want No Deal. Just that the Sky Spin is not necessarily fact.
Just look at what is already being said on here. We have some claiming Sky said Leadsom is looking like resigning. They said nothng of the sort. Rigby just listed the hard Brexiteers in the cabinet and speculated they would be unhappy and might resign.
The one tactical strength she has left is that the Tory Party cannot shift her.
I expect the shit head wing of the Tory party (Francois, Baker, Bridgen et al) to vote against the government in a confidence motion now.
Then if Corbyn is clever he should table a VONC now?
This is Corbyn's chance to act in the national interest and the nation is watching
He is unlikely to take the offer of the sh** sandwich she is serving up to him. If he has any sense he will give her an offer that suits him and take it or leave it. Everyone knows we are where we are due to her stupidity and stubborness. Too late to pass the buck now.
And that is the bind Corbyn is in. Still not much of one, but if he does actually want Brexit he's stumped, since his party will probably only allow him to accept something which means going back to the country.
Another fool then - he doesn't think they are in peril already? Tory MPs have to suck it up. Either you get a Brexit you don't like or you quit like Boles and take your chances what happens with government and Brexit.
Theyve had their chance to shape Brexit and blew it .
Labour will not fall for this. Is this what 7 hours has produced?
If so they will be traduced by the public
In what way? I genuinely don't get it.
If Corbyn refuses to cooperate he will carry the can
Some of you have read this very wrong if you think this drops Labour in it. Those of you who say brexiteers won’t be happy are spot on. She’s just clearly said looking for softer brexit and new red lines to get a deal.
And what’s May’s party going to do now May goes that way? Moves the red lines.
She’s toast.
The only card I think that the Brexiteers have left to play is to seek an immediate "indicative" vote of confidence amongst Conservative MPs in May's leadership. Yes it's only 4 months since the last real one, but is there anything in the rules of the Conservative Party that would forbid such a course if enough MPs pressed for it? Obviously in contrast to the vote in December May wouldn't be formally required to resign if she lost it, but in practice could she really try and carry on?
But the no deal fantasists can just STFU now . It’s not happening and the ERG overplayed their hand and get their just deserts .
Poetic justice for Francois, we could have left the EU by now with a Deal had he backed it from the start, now we are in for indefinite EU membership potentially
At this point I’ll take anything as long as it’s a deal. Just happy that the ERG nutjobs have been told to take a hike .
But the no deal fantasists can just STFU now . It’s not happening and the ERG overplayed their hand and get their just deserts .
Poetic justice for Francois, we could have left the EU by now with a Deal had he backed it from the start, now we are in for indefinite EU membership potentially
Any variant of May's deal based on the WA delivers indefinite EU vassalage.
The EU will not agree to an extension to 22 May. Period. Because the Euros will not have been held, it will be a true cliff edge and unlikely to be met. Even a last minute revoke is problematic if we have no MEPs.
The EU will insist on a long extension and the UK taking part in the Euros while a deal is thrashed out.
Euro election this year at 1.46 on Betfair is good value.
If there is a clear way forward agreed next week by the UK and a timetable to get everything passed by 22 May they will probably budge tbh. They’ll just be glad of the certainty.
Labour will not fall for this. Is this what 7 hours has produced?
If so they will be traduced by the public
In what way? I genuinely don't get it.
If Corbyn refuses to cooperate he will carry the can
So the PM has had 2 years to sort it, but if JC doesn't, from opposition, in 7 days, it's all his fault?
It doesn't matter who's fault it is right now, that can come later. Parliament wanted to take control, can they fix it is the key.
It does matter. The interest in speaking to the LOTO now rather than two years ago is an unsubtle attempt at blame shifting. It is most unlikely to succeed, unless Corbyn is even stupider than is widely supposed.
It does seem plausible that Jeremy Corbyn is finally about to be forcibly removed from his extremely comfortable vantage point on the fence he's been occupying for the last two years. God, would that be funny...
Labour will not fall for this. Is this what 7 hours has produced?
If so they will be traduced by the public
In what way? I genuinely don't get it.
If Corbyn refuses to cooperate he will carry the can
So the PM has had 2 years to sort it, but if JC doesn't, from opposition, in 7 days, it's all his fault?
It doesn't matter who's fault it is right now, that can come later. Parliament wanted to take control, can they fix it is the key.
It does matter. The interest in speaking to the LOTO now rather than two years ago is an unsubtle attempt at blame shifting. It is most unlikely to succeed, unless Corbyn is even stupider than is widely supposed.
I said it doesn't matter right now, not that it doesn't matter. And I stand by that - we'll have decades to talk about blame.
Well, that statement was a waste of air. She will ask for a further short extension but without doing the Euro elections. The EU will say "No further extension without the Euro elections". Because we could fuck them up by failing to pass the WA and revoking in panic, too late to hold the elections. Regardless of how likely they think it that May would ever revoke, they can't be completely certain she won't.
Comments
We need May gone as soon as possible, but some of this astonishment that she is admitting she is weak is coming off as phony, as though admitting it makes it true for the first time.
To borrow a phrase, nothing has changed, except that May is being more honest about her weakness.
We just need a confirmatory general election to cement Jezza into his rightful position as PM at the moment he's PM in all but name...
What she has done is to put herself forward as national saviour, rather than simply Tory PM. She's safe from a Tory leadership bid, and she seems to think that changing to this cooperative position will insulate her from a VoNC.
The DUP will probably abandon her though, so it will be a minority govt.
In fact “I often say we can make a success of no deal” 😮 that’s just a damn lie
U turns are never popular at best of times, she’s even managing to U turn in two different directions at once? Adopt Labours red lines for the PD and talking up making no deal a success.
It’s hysterical. 😃
Tories will be going nuts, how many Cabinet resignations seems pretty key to how things play out.
Just look at what is already being said on here. We have some claiming Sky said Leadsom is looking like resigning. They said nothng of the sort. Rigby just listed the hard Brexiteers in the cabinet and speculated they would be unhappy and might resign.
No as they cannot offer a short extension due to the EU elections (why do we have to repeat this).
The EU will insist on a long extension and the UK taking part in the Euros while a deal is thrashed out.
Euro election this year at 1.46 on Betfair is good value.
If they don’t resign, that’s ominous, there’s more of them in the room to pick her up and chuck her out the window.
When did that last happen, was it the Slovak leader in 30 years war?
But the no deal fantasists can just STFU now . It’s not happening and the ERG overplayed their hand and get their just deserts .
Everyone knows we are where we are due to her stupidity and stubborness. Too late to pass the buck now.
Macron is being allowed to do a bit of Gaullistic posturing as it plays well politically in France to give Les rosbifs a kick.
MV passes 2019: 62% > 66%
Euro elections 2019: 67% > 67%
EU ref 2019: 34% > 29%
No deal 2019: 29% > 16% <--lol ERG
A50 revoked: 28% > 26%
"The government stands ready to abide by the decision of the House ...."
Soft BREXIT with Ken Clark Customs Union most likely option. Avoid Backstop requirement.
https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1113128729885147137
She will ask for a further short extension but without doing the Euro elections.
The EU will say "No further extension without the Euro elections". Because we could fuck them up by failing to pass the WA and revoking in panic, too late to hold the elections. Regardless of how likely they think it that May would ever revoke, they can't be completely certain she won't.