She hasn't the slightest clue how to fix this. Talks with Corbyn? Done that already. Vote for her deal? Done that already. Indicative votes? Done that already.
Death by a thousand cuts. She and Corbyn will agree to nothing. She is offering him credibility to be part of the solution in exchange for making him a scapegoat if nothing comes of it. All Corbyn wants is a GE.
Hopefully the EU will tell her to sod off - HOWEVER, if they don't *AND* she's really serious about avoiding No Deal, then the writ for the European Parliamentary elections is going to have to be moved before April 12th.
If the country isn't ready to hold the European elections then we'll *have* to leave on May 22nd regardless.
I think there's a reasonable rule of thumb: if you'd get arrested for standing in the street and shouting something into a megaphone, you shouldn't expect a right to say it on open forums on the Internet. Though there are difficulties with that concept as well wrt territories.
It’s a reasonable analogy
The difference is YouTube isn’t arresting him for shouting something into a megaphone, they are preventing him from saying anything
If you get arrested for shouting things into a megaphone enough times on, say, Oxford Street, eventually you should just get banned from Oxford Street altogether. And possibly a bunch of other streets nearby, just in case. YouTube is a private company rather than a public space, which should make it simpler to ban people they don't want.
Actually I think this is a positive development generally. The problem we're having with the likes of YouTube and Facebook is that they have long insisted they are tech companies, not publishing/media companies, and therefore they have no responsibility for what people use their platforms to post. The recent trend has been towards forcing them to take more and more action to remove prohibited content quicker - in particular the recent New Zealand mosque attack, where they were criticised for allowing the gunman to post live footage - which is almost impossible to stop unless you require moderation for everything in real time. If we had similar rules in place social media companies as we do for the wider media (eg editors can't just hide behind their journalists if they post false accusations without checking them properly) then we'd be in a much better place.
The concern is once they become a dominant stream of discourse they are not just private companies. In the way that, for example, it is (rightly) very difficult to cut off someone’s water or gas supply it should be difficult to cut off their right to express their views publicly
If we've gotten to the point where YouTube is being compared to utility companies, then something has gone seriously wrong somewhere. I don't think we have; the great thing about the internet is that there are no barriers to entry remotely comparable to the utility companies, so he is perfectly able and entitled to start his own blog or website and publish whatever he fancies. I don't see why YouTube should be forced to pay to host him and watch him tank their advertising revenue into the bargain.
May has effectively stopped being Tory PM and abandoned Blue Brexit. Corbyn wins(?) but I'm not sure he wants to work with her. The price she's paying (losing support from the Brexiters in her party) might not be worth it?
Sky news reports Leadsom may resign possibly other Leavers in Cabinet
I am watching Sky and they didn't report that - they speculated that. Because Rigby is trying to fill the air when she has nothing actually worth saying
Hopefully the EU will tell her to sod off - HOWEVER, if they don't *AND* she's really serious about avoiding No Deal, then the writ for the European Parliamentary elections is going to have to be moved before April 12th.
If the country isn't ready to hold the European elections then we'll *have* to leave on May 22nd regardless.
Adler on BBC says EU will likely agree further extension provided UK contests the EU Parliament elections to avoid blame for any No Deal
Hold your horses. On what basis will she be asking for the extension to 22nd May? And does she know what this does to business? We can't sit here at Defcon 1 forever
She's trying to blame Corbyn for a no deal Brexit and it just won't work. I'm even beginning to be tempted to vote Labour in the next election just to spite her. Just awful.
If Jezza was shrewd he'd tell Theresa that he'd support her WA on the condition that if the Irish border problem wasn't solved there'd be a referendum on a united Ireland. What could Theresa possibly say to that?
She's trying to blame Corbyn for a no deal Brexit and it just won't work. I'm even beginning to be tempted to vote Labour in the next election just to spite her. Just awful.
For going into the European elections, not for No Deal.
Reading everyone else's posts I guess I must be extremely naive. I thought she had chosen a soft Brexit and that No Deal has come off the table. Clearly not. How did I miss it from what May said?
I don't get why people are saying she's ruled out No Deal?
The main takeaway I got from that speech was her ruling out an extension past 22 May, or taking part in European elections. That's basically choosing No Deal, since there's not a cat's chance in hell her deal will pass before then.
She's trying to blame Corbyn for a no deal Brexit and it just won't work. I'm even beginning to be tempted to vote Labour in the next election just to spite her. Just awful.
How is it different to Corbyn seeking to blame May for a no deal Brexit?
Reading everyone else's posts I guess I must be extremely naive. I thought she had chosen a soft Brexit and that No Deal has come off the table. Clearly not. How did I miss it from what May said?
She hasn't chosen anything except to kick the can a bit more and try to blame Corbyn for whatever comes next.
I am not sure that is what happened although it is the Sky spin.
May said that we could make a success of No Deal but she was going to try this first. If this fails then the No Deal option is still on the table. And there are so many ways this can fail.
May has effectively stopped being Tory PM and abandoned Blue Brexit. Corbyn wins(?) but I'm not sure he wants to work with her. The price she's paying (losing support from the Brexiters in her party) might not be worth it?
If no deal is as bad as many think, then it is worth it.
Labour will not fall for this. Is this what 7 hours has produced?
If so they will be traduced by the public
In what way? I genuinely don't get it.
If Corbyn refuses to cooperate he will carry the can
Some of you have read this very wrong if you think this drops Labour in it. Those of you who say brexiteers won’t be happy are spot on. She’s just clearly said looking for softer brexit and new red lines to get a deal.
And what’s May’s party going to do now May goes that way? Moves the red lines.
Hearing this on way home. It's rarely a good move for a prime Minister to treat the LOTO as an equal. May is giving Corbyn an authority and a legitimacy he doesn't have currently and doesn't deserve.
IF Corbyn makes it to 10 Downing Street this might be one of the crucial moments - providing he has the sense to look statesmanlike and doesn't descend into party political petulance (or flatulence).
She's trying to blame Corbyn for a no deal Brexit and it just won't work. I'm even beginning to be tempted to vote Labour in the next election just to spite her. Just awful.
How is it different to Corbyn seeking to blame May for a no deal Brexit?
Because May is Prime Minister. She is literally responsible. It's her job.
Reading everyone else's posts I guess I must be extremely naive. I thought she had chosen a soft Brexit and that No Deal has come off the table. Clearly not. How did I miss it from what May said?
No I agree with you. I think May was saying 1. CU deal with Labour, if not that 2. indicative votes leading to CU deal. And then she crosses her fingers and hopes enough MPs back it.
Hearing this on way home. It's rarely a good move for a prime Minister to treat the LOTO as an equal. May is giving Corbyn an authority and a legitimacy he doesn't have currently and doesn't deserve.
Don't really see how this can work when nothing else had. There's still no deal that can pass the house, not split the Tories and be agreed with the EU. The two solutions are as they have always been: accept the Tory split or try to change the parliamentary arithmetic via an election.
I am not sure that is what happened although it is the Sky spin.
May said that we could make a success of No Deal but she was going to try this first. If this fails then the No Deal option is still on the table. And there are so many ways this can fail.
That’s what the ERG will cling onto as an excuse for their obstinacy.
Very smart from May - and exactly the right thing to do. I am actually a little bit emotional. She has put the country first.
But what is this supposed to achieve? Assuming that the EU grants the extension, talks with Corbyn will achieve nothing. How this will most likely end is with a few weeks of can-kicking, followed by yet another attempt to get the Withdrawal Agreement to pass.
I'm very sceptical about this. My husband, on the other hand, thinks that after the talks with Corbyn fail, this will end with a Government-sponsored round of indicative votes and Deal+CU will eventually pass. We'll see which, if either, of us is right. Eventually.
This is risky stuff from Theresa. She doesn't want Jezza to look like the messiah striding into Number Ten, poised to salvage Brexit and the nation with it.
If he came out of his meeting with May and made a statement on the steps of Downing Street saying her deal should be put to a People's Vote, he'd look like the real PM.
She's trying to blame Corbyn for a no deal Brexit and it just won't work. I'm even beginning to be tempted to vote Labour in the next election just to spite her. Just awful.
How is it different to Corbyn seeking to blame May for a no deal Brexit?
Because May is Prime Minister. She is literally responsible. It's her job.
Sorry, that doen't wash. Parliament must pass something. She is more responsible for this mess than Corbyn because she is PM, but if both are doing the same thing now, just seeking to blame the other for no deal, it is no different.
Labour will not fall for this. Is this what 7 hours has produced?
If so they will be traduced by the public
In what way? I genuinely don't get it.
If Corbyn refuses to cooperate he will carry the can
Some of you have read this very wrong if you think this drops Labour in it. Those of you who say brexiteers won’t be happy are spot on. She’s just clearly said looking for softer brexit and new red lines to get a deal.
And what’s May’s party going to do now May goes that way? Moves the red lines.
She’s toast.
TM had a decision to take and on the biggest one since WW2 she has put the UK interests first
There will be consequences and for once 'things have changed'
She's trying to blame Corbyn for a no deal Brexit and it just won't work. I'm even beginning to be tempted to vote Labour in the next election just to spite her. Just awful.
For swing voters it may well do, if she puts forward Deal plus Customs Union and Corbyn rejects it, though his backbenchers may rebel and support it
Hearing this on way home. It's rarely a good move for a prime Minister to treat the LOTO as an equal. May is giving Corbyn an authority and a legitimacy he doesn't have currently and doesn't deserve.
We also have this notion of a "short extension" which is throwing it back to the EU once again. The EU will happily agree to extend to 22/5 if we agree the WA but if we don't want to go any further and there's no WA in sight we leave without a WA on 12/4.
If he came out of his meeting with May and made a statement on the steps of Downing Street saying her deal should be put to a People's Vote, he'd look like the real PM.
There is no building in the world he could stand outside and look like a PM.
Labour will not fall for this. Is this what 7 hours has produced?
If so they will be traduced by the public
In what way? I genuinely don't get it.
If Corbyn refuses to cooperate he will carry the can
Some of you have read this very wrong if you think this drops Labour in it. Those of you who say brexiteers won’t be happy are spot on. She’s just clearly said looking for softer brexit and new red lines to get a deal.
And what’s May’s party going to do now May goes that way? Moves the red lines.
She’s toast.
TM had a decision to take and on the biggest one since WW2 she has put the UK interests first
There will be consequences and for once 'things have changed'
She's ducked the real decision, which was to choose between a soft Brexit and a second referendum.
Comments
Indicative votes bingo.
TM has shown willingness to talk. He has to play ball or face the consequences
We cannot let him forget that classic
The line will simply be that nothing in the PD is binding and therefore it's worthless.
Keep. Kicking. That. Can.
Amen!
Very clever from TM.
How on earth did she get promoted?
If the country isn't ready to hold the European elections then we'll *have* to leave on May 22nd regardless.
The main takeaway I got from that speech was her ruling out an extension past 22 May, or taking part in European elections. That's basically choosing No Deal, since there's not a cat's chance in hell her deal will pass before then.
May said that we could make a success of No Deal but she was going to try this first. If this fails then the No Deal option is still on the table. And there are so many ways this can fail.
And what’s May’s party going to do now May goes that way? Moves the red lines.
She’s toast.
Hearing this on way home. It's rarely a good move for a prime Minister to treat the LOTO as an equal. May is giving Corbyn an authority and a legitimacy he doesn't have currently and doesn't deserve.
IF Corbyn makes it to 10 Downing Street this might be one of the crucial moments - providing he has the sense to look statesmanlike and doesn't descend into party political petulance (or flatulence).
I'd be more worried if there were no resignations.
Corbyn (Seamus Milne) will manufacture a reason not to cooperate.
Weak. Weak. Weak.
I'm very sceptical about this. My husband, on the other hand, thinks that after the talks with Corbyn fail, this will end with a Government-sponsored round of indicative votes and Deal+CU will eventually pass. We'll see which, if either, of us is right. Eventually.
There will be consequences and for once 'things have changed'
We also have this notion of a "short extension" which is throwing it back to the EU once again. The EU will happily agree to extend to 22/5 if we agree the WA but if we don't want to go any further and there's no WA in sight we leave without a WA on 12/4.
https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1113128459893661696