My conclusion is that not enough of the ERG (they’re bright sparks, that lot) will work out they need to vote for the Deal in the next few minutes to keep it alive.
They’ll probably work it out in a few weeks time, by which time it’ll be history and life (and politics) will have moved on.
May and the EU should have done better if they wanted this deal backing. This deal is pathetic and the fact its the only deal before us is not good enough.
The deal is a very fair deal and fully worthy of backing.
Didn't agree with you in January, don't agree with you now. Sorry but nothing has changed.
This deal was told no - emphatically - in January. It should have been changed and nothing has changed. It needs to be told no again.
You’re a unicorns or Remain “Brexiteer”.
Forgive me if I don’t take your views too seriously.
The backstop is a unicorn. It will never pass.
The backstop is without parallel a huge and unprecedented violation in sovereignty - can you find me a simple example ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD of a sovereign nation having sacrificed its controls and customs to a foreign body in which it gets zero say and in which it can't unilaterally exit out of that arrangement to regain control?
To be honest, Philip, I’m both bored and tired of responding to the hyperbole on this.
There is plenty in the joint UK/EU political declaration to commit both parties to work for frictionless solutions in the permanent deal to overcome this, further reinforced by the qualifying riders and clarifying letters. It’s neither in the UK’s or EU’s interests for it to last.
And NI is going to need to have some sort of special status wrt. the EU and UK in any Brexit scenario, and indeed, does so now. The whole place is a compromise.
I have no qualms with a compromise. The backstop isn't a compromise it is abject surrender.
My conclusion is that not enough of the ERG (they’re bright sparks, that lot) will work out they need to vote for the Deal in the next few minutes to keep it alive.
They’ll probably work it out in a few weeks time, by which time it’ll be history and life (and politics) will have moved on.
May and the EU should have done better if they wanted this deal backing. This deal is pathetic and the fact its the only deal before us is not good enough.
The deal is a very fair deal and fully worthy of backing.
Didn't agree with you in January, don't agree with you now. Sorry but nothing has changed.
This deal was told no - emphatically - in January. It should have been changed and nothing has changed. It needs to be told no again.
You’re a unicorns or Remain “Brexiteer”.
Forgive me if I don’t take your views too seriously.
The backstop is a unicorn. It will never pass.
The backstop is without parallel a huge and unprecedented violation in sovereignty - can you find me a simple example ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD of a sovereign nation having sacrificed its controls and customs to a foreign body in which it gets zero say and in which it can't unilaterally exit out of that arrangement to regain control?
To be honest, Philip, I’m both bored and tired of responding to the hyperbole on this.
There is plenty in the joint UK/EU political declaration to commit both parties to work for frictionless solutions in the permanent deal to overcome this, further reinforced by the qualifying riders and clarifying letters. It’s neither in the UK’s or EU’s interests for it to last.
And NI is going to need to have some sort of special status wrt. the EU and UK in any Brexit scenario, and indeed, does so now. The whole place is a compromise.
I have no qualms with a compromise. The backstop isn't a compromise it is abject surrender.
Sigh. No it really isn't. What will be surrender is ending up staying in the EU because the headbangers were unwilling to compromise on anything but the purists of Brexits.
There's no point this being a close loss for the deal. This decision needs to either be a case of 'end this, we approve the deal' or 'end this farce, the deal is dead'.
My conclusion is that not enough of the ERG (they’re bright sparks, that lot) will work out they need to vote for the Deal in the next few minutes to keep it alive.
They’ll probably work it out in a few weeks time, by which time it’ll be history and life (and politics) will have moved on.
May and the EU should have done better if they wanted this deal backing. This deal is pathetic and the fact its the only deal before us is not good enough.
The deal is a very fair deal and fully worthy of backing.
Didn't agree with you in January, don't agree with you now. Sorry but nothing has changed.
This deal was told no - emphatically - in January. It should have been changed and nothing has changed. It needs to be told no again.
You’re a unicorns or Remain “Brexiteer”.
Forgive me if I don’t take your views too seriously.
The backstop is a unicorn. It will never pass.
The backstop is without parallel a huge and unprecedented violation in sovereignty - can you find me a simple example ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD of a sovereign nation having sacrificed its controls and customs to a foreign body in which it gets zero say and in which it can't unilaterally exit out of that arrangement to regain control?
To be honest, Philip, I’m both bored and tired of responding to the hyperbole on this.
There is plenty in the joint UK/EU political declaration to commit both parties to work for frictionless solutions in the permanent deal to overcome this, further reinforced by the qualifying riders and clarifying letters. It’s neither in the UK’s or EU’s interests for it to last.
And NI is going to need to have some sort of special status wrt. the EU and UK in any Brexit scenario, and indeed, does so now. The whole place is a compromise.
I have no qualms with a compromise. The backstop isn't a compromise it is abject surrender.
Sigh. No it really isn't. What will be surrender is ending up staying in the EU because the headbangers were unwilling to compromise on anything but the purists of Brexits.
The deal without a backstop still wouldn't have been the purist of the Brexits. There were a number of other objections to the deal such as committing to spending billions without any trade agreement sorted first. However Brexiteers were willing to compromise on all their other objections so long as just one objection was resolved. The EU refused to compromise on anything.
So the gap narrows but the Deal fails, now the all out Remainer assault on Brexit itself will begin. First by ensuring Article 50 is extended, then by pushing Remain v Deal referendum or Norway Plus BINO, so the Deal is not dead yet
So the gap narrows but the Deal fails, now the all out Remainer assault on Brexit itself will begin. First by ensuring Article 50 is extended, then by pushing Remain v Deal referendum or Norway Plus BINO, so the Deal is not dead yet
So the gap narrows but the Deal fails, now the all out Remainer assault on Brexit itself will begin. First by ensuring Article 50 is extended, then by pushing Remain v Deal referendum or Norway Plus BINO, so the Deal is not dead yet
Yes I think this is right. ERG not taking yes for an answer.
My conclusion is that not enough of the ERG (they’re bright sparks, that lot) will work out they need to vote for the Deal in the next few minutes to keep it alive.
They’ll probably work it out in a few weeks time, by which time it’ll be history and life (and politics) will have moved on.
May and the EU should have done better if they wanted this deal backing. This deal is pathetic and the fact its the only deal before us is not good enough.
The deal is a very fair deal and fully worthy of backing.
Didn't agree with you in January, don't agree with you now. Sorry but nothing has changed.
This deal was told no - emphatically - in January. It should have been changed and nothing has changed. It needs to be told no again.
You’re a unicorns or Remain “Brexiteer”.
Forgive me if I don’t take your views too seriously.
The backstop is a unicorn. It will never pass.
The backstop is without parallel a huge and unprecedented violation in sovereignty - can trol?
To be honest, Philip, I’m both bored and tired of responding to the hyperbole on this.
There is plenty in the joint UK/EU political declaration to commit both parties to work for frictionless solutions in the permanent deal to overcome this, further reinforced by the qualifying riders and clarifying letters. It’s neither in the UK’s or EU’s interests for it to last.
And NI is going to need to have some sort of special status wrt. the EU and UK in any Brexit scenario, and indeed, does so now. The whole place is a compromise.
I have no qualms with a compromise. The backstop isn't a compromise it is abject surrender.
Sigh. No it really isn't. What will be surrender is ending up staying in the EU because the headbangers were unwilling to compromise on anything but the purists of Brexits.
The deal without a backstop still wouldn't have been the purist of the Brexits. There were a number of other objections to the deal such as committing to spending billions without any trade agreement sorted first. However Brexiteers were willing to compromise on all their other objections so long as just one objection was resolved. The EU refused to compromise on anything.
Sorry but bricking up the English Channel would not have been enough for some in the ERG, if they tend up with the revocation of Article 50 and no Brexit at all it will be no more than they deserve
I think she implied she will vote against leaving without a deal.
I hope she does and savours every minute, tomorrow she gets her revenge on the ERG and on tonight's numbers the Commons will likely reject No Deal by more than it rejected her Deal
A free vote on the Tory side means 'no deal' is going to get rejected by some humongous margin. The key thing then will be the amendments on the extension, which I expect will include various possible durations, but the EU are now in control of the process.
As the husband of a headteacher I demand you withdraw that slur.
If May were a headteacher, her school would be in special measures and would be forcibly taken over by an academy chain. You know, a large organisation that groups together several individual institutions within one overarching management, on occasion criticised for being remote and unresponsive, but it does at least bail out the institutions and stop them going embarrassingly tits-up.
A free vote on the Tory side means 'no deal' is going to get rejected by some humongous margin. The key thing then will be the amendments on the extension, which I expect will include various possible durations, but the EU are now in control of the process.
Sigh. No it really isn't. What will be surrender is ending up staying in the EU because the headbangers were unwilling to compromise on anything but the purists of Brexits.
The deal without a backstop still wouldn't have been the purist of the Brexits. There were a number of other objections to the deal such as committing to spending billions without any trade agreement sorted first. However Brexiteers were willing to compromise on all their other objections so long as just one objection was resolved. The EU refused to compromise on anything.
Sorry but bricking up the English Channel would not have been enough for some in the ERG, if they tend up with the revocation of Article 50 and no Brexit at all it will be no more than they deserve
Sorry but that's ludicrous hyperbole. There was a vote on backing the deal if the backstop was dealt with and there were only 8 Tory headbanger MPs who opposed that. They were:
Heidi Allen, Guto Bebb, Ken Clarke, Dominic Grieve, Phillip Lee, Anne Marie Morris, Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston
Absolutely all of those are extremists but the only extremist on that list from the ERG is I believe Anne Marie Morris.
Sigh. No it really isn't. What will be surrender is ending up staying in the EU because the headbangers were unwilling to compromise on anything but the purists of Brexits.
The deal without a backstop still wouldn't have been the purist of the Brexits. There were a number of other objections to the deal such as committing to spending billions without any trade agreement sorted first. However Brexiteers were willing to compromise on all their other objections so long as just one objection was resolved. The EU refused to compromise on anything.
A free vote on the Tory side means 'no deal' is going to get rejected by some humongous margin. The key thing then will be the amendments on the extension, which I expect will include various possible durations, but the EU are now in control of the process.
The EU have been in control of the process since May took over.
Sigh. No it really isn't. What will be surrender is ending up staying in the EU because the headbangers were unwilling to compromise on anything but the purists of Brexits.
The deal without a backstop still wouldn't have been the purist of the Brexits. There were a number of other objections to the deal such as committing to spending billions without any trade agreement sorted first. However Brexiteers were willing to compromise on all their other objections so long as just one objection was resolved. The EU refused to compromise on anything.
Sorry but bricking up the English Channel would not have been enough for some in the ERG, if they tend up with the revocation of Article 50 and no Brexit at all it will be no more than they deserve
Sorry but that's ludicrous hyperbole. There was a vote on backing the deal if the backstop was dealt with and there were only 8 Tory headbanger MPs who opposed that. They were:
Heidi Allen, Guto Bebb, Ken Clarke, Dominic Grieve, Phillip Lee, Anne Marie Morris, Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston
Absolutely all of those are extremists but the only extremist on that list from the ERG is I believe Anne Marie Morris.
There is no deal without the backstop and so voting for it is utterly pointless. When will you realise that?
A free vote on the Tory side means 'no deal' is going to get rejected by some humongous margin. The key thing then will be the amendments on the extension, which I expect will include various possible durations, but the EU are now in control of the process.
So 'No Deal' gets voted down tomorrow. How long can May claim to have the confidence of the House?
My conclusion is that not enough of the ERG (they’re bright sparks, that lot) will work out they need to vote for the Deal in the next few minutes to keep it alive.
They’ll probably work it out in a few weeks time, by which time it’ll be history and life (and politics) will have moved on.
May and the EU should have done better if they wanted this deal backing. This deal is pathetic and the fact its the only deal before us is not good enough.
The deal is a very fair deal and fully worthy of backing.
Didn't agree with you in January, don't agree with you now. Sorry but nothing has changed.
This deal was told no - emphatically - in January. It should have been changed and nothing has changed. It needs to be told no again.
You’re a unicorns or Remain “Brexiteer”.
Forgive me if I don’t take your views too seriously.
The backstop is a unicorn. It will never pass.
The backstop is without parallel a huge and unprecedented violation in sovereignty - can trol?
To be honest, Philip, I’m both bored and tired of responding to the hyperbole on this.
There is plenty in the joint UK/EU political declaration to commit both parties to work for frictionless solutions in the permanent deal to overcome this, further reinforced by the qualifying riders and clarifying letters. It’s neither in the UK’s or EU’s interests for it to last.
And NI is going to need to have some sort of special status wrt. the EU and UK in any Brexit scenario, and indeed, does so now. The whole place is a compromise.
]
Sigh. No it really isn't. What will be surrender is ending up staying in the EU because the headbangers were unwilling to compromise on anything but the purists of Brexits.
The deal without a backstop still wouldn't have been the purist of the Brexits. There were a number of other objections to the deal such as committing to spending billions without any trade agreement sorted first. However Brexiteers were willing to compromise on all their other objections so long as just one objection was resolved. The EU refused to compromise on anything.
Sorry but bricking up the English Channel would not have been enough for some in the ERG, if they tend up with the revocation of Article 50 and no Brexit at all it will be no more than they deserve
Sigh. No it really isn't. What will be surrender is ending up staying in the EU because the headbangers were unwilling to compromise on anything but the purists of Brexits.
The deal without a backstop still wouldn't have been the purist of the Brexits. There were a number of other objections to the deal such as committing to spending billions without any trade agreement sorted first. However Brexiteers were willing to compromise on all their other objections so long as just one objection was resolved. The EU refused to compromise on anything.
Okaaaay...
Check the Brady amendment vote.
Rebels had many objections to the Deal but every Tory except 7 Remainers and Anne Marie Morris voted that they were prepared to compromise on all those objections so long as there was a solution to the backstop.
I am genuinely stunned. The ERG are morons. Utter morons.
This is news to you?
I guess not. But I genuinely did not believe they’d do this. I thought that somewhere in them was a sense of duty, of realism, of patriotism. My bad, I accept that.
Sigh. No it really isn't. What will be surrender is ending up staying in the EU because the headbangers were unwilling to compromise on anything but the purists of Brexits.
The deal without a backstop still wouldn't have been the purist of the Brexits. There were a number of other objections to the deal such as committing to spending billions without any trade agreement sorted first. However Brexiteers were willing to compromise on all their other objections so long as just one objection was resolved. The EU refused to compromise on anything.
Okaaaay...
Check the Brady amendment vote.
Rebels had many objections to the Deal but every Tory except 7 Remainers and Anne Marie Morris voted that they were prepared to compromise on all those objections so long as there was a solution to the backstop.
Sigh. No it really isn't. What will be surrender is ending up staying in the EU because the headbangers were unwilling to compromise on anything but the purists of Brexits.
The deal without a backstop still wouldn't have been the purist of the Brexits. There were a number of other objections to the deal such as committing to spending billions without any trade agreement sorted first. However Brexiteers were willing to compromise on all their other objections so long as just one objection was resolved. The EU refused to compromise on anything.
Okaaaay...
Check the Brady amendment vote.
Rebels had many objections to the Deal but every Tory except 7 Remainers and Anne Marie Morris voted that they were prepared to compromise on all those objections so long as there was a solution to the backstop.
Voting for an extension does not solve the problems the government faces. The EU will want to know if the UK wants to revoke article 50 or if it wants a referendum. Those are choices the house must now face.
Is that a hint that the government will offer the House those two options? She's right on the substantive point, of course.
Sigh. No it really isn't. What will be surrender is ending up staying in the EU because the headbangers were unwilling to compromise on anything but the purists of Brexits.
The deal without a backstop still wouldn't have been the purist of the Brexits. There were a number of other objections to the deal such as committing to spending billions without any trade agreement sorted first. However Brexiteers were willing to compromise on all their other objections so long as just one objection was resolved. The EU refused to compromise on anything.
Okaaaay...
Check the Brady amendment vote.
Rebels had many objections to the Deal but every Tory except 7 Remainers and Anne Marie Morris voted that they were prepared to compromise on all those objections so long as there was a solution to the backstop.
Yes completely. Putting forth a rejected deal without changes was completely delusional.
I think we just have to give up and accept that we are not leaving. This displacement activity is tiresome.
What do you think that does to the tory party?
Who cares? They are finished and completely unfit to govern.
The priceless irony of Corbyn's election in 2015 was that it came about because Labour members were convinced they couldn't win and so fancied ideological purity for a bit.
If they had compromised and gone for centrism, they'd be back in power by now. As it is we have a useless government and a useless and vile opposition.
Comments
Another attention seeking MP...
Looks like it will be a latter.
https://twitter.com/PaulJSweeney/status/1105547206768107522
vain dwarf seeks attention.
mmm.
I think she implied she will vote against leaving without a deal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ5e5uOgpK4
If May were a headteacher, her school would be in special measures and would be forcibly taken over by an academy chain. You know, a large organisation that groups together several individual institutions within one overarching management, on occasion criticised for being remote and unresponsive, but it does at least bail out the institutions and stop them going embarrassingly tits-up.
Nope, the parallels escape me.
Heidi Allen, Guto Bebb, Ken Clarke, Dominic Grieve, Phillip Lee, Anne Marie Morris, Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston
Absolutely all of those are extremists but the only extremist on that list from the ERG is I believe Anne Marie Morris.
Rebels had many objections to the Deal but every Tory except 7 Remainers and Anne Marie Morris voted that they were prepared to compromise on all those objections so long as there was a solution to the backstop.
What have the EU compromised on since January?
Voting for an extension does not solve the problems the government faces. The EU will want to know if the UK wants to revoke article 50 or if it wants a referendum. Those are choices the house must now face.
Is that a hint that the government will offer the House those two options? She's right on the substantive point, of course.
We are so fucked - well done Cameron
If they had compromised and gone for centrism, they'd be back in power by now. As it is we have a useless government and a useless and vile opposition.