Problem is all MPs have been told that a million times. Either they know and are deliberately ignoring that, or they simply will never understand it no matter how clearly it is stated.
With the vote slated for 45 minutes from now I'm off to enjoy a good movie, but I'm going to have a stab and suggest it will be
Been following the Commons all day . There has been some good contributions and what really stands out is how many Tory MPs I hadn’t seen talk before are scathing at the thought of no deal .
And just now James Cartlidge from Suffolk South absolutely eviscerating the WTO option .
Never thought of it that way but the word "fuck" has really lost all offense. In fact most non-racial swear words have.
I have noticed in the past few years that "shit" has become more and more common in network american tv shows airing in prime time. Perhaps a loosening of standards given the rise of HBO and other competitors where extreme vulgarity is extremely common.
Yes, I think that started when Trump used it and the late-night shows got laughed at by their audience (and comedian presenters) for censoring it. Definitely more prevalent in the last couple of years.
On HBO, Bill Maher got in trouble last year for an off-the-cuff use of the N-word. His show Real Time is very unusual in that it goes out completely live.
"Shit" remains one of the seven dirty words the FCC bans from FTA broadcasts, so if you're heard it in an American import, it's either come from a subscription cable channel or was bleeped on American TV.
HBO, as a purely subscription service, can and does broadcast any profanity it likes.
The likes of Stephen Colbert and The Daily Show now get away with the occasional shit, so to speak. I think it dates from Trump's use of "Shithole countries". It may be that the 'cable' versions don't get bleeped and the 'OTA' versions do.
Even The Simpsons has, on very rare occasions, been allowed to get away with 'bastard'.
Problem is all MPs have been told that a million times. Either they know and are deliberately ignoring that, or they simply will never understand it no matter how clearly it is stated.
With the vote slated for 45 minutes from now I'm off to enjoy a good movie, but I'm going to have a stab and suggest it will be
Ayes 253 Noes 381
I very much hope it's a 150+ majority against. Less than that and May is going to start getting ideas about running the clock down some more
They’re paid to vote with their heads, not their hearts. If we wanted gurning, emoting One Show presenters as MPs we’d be better going to the primary source. Moron.
If we want Fabricant to vote with benefit of his brains, he can't use his head.
They’re paid to vote with their heads, not their hearts. If we wanted gurning, emoting One Show presenters as MPs we’d be better going to the primary source. Moron.
They have all gone beyond the minor detail of what happens to the country and are thinking personally about how they will avoid the blame.
In any event, this needs to reach the 'something else' stage by Thursday night. May simply cannot be allowed to go back to the EU with a proposal to discuss the backstop some more during an extension.
Whether an internal Tory coup, a VoNC/GE, a voluntary resignation by May or, heaven forbid, her coming up with an actual plan B, I don't too much care.
Spaz was one of my favorite insults as a kid. And an adult.
I think the answer to this is that we should all be able to say whatever we like without fear. Let the blacks say cracker, let the Muslims say kaffir, let the whites say nigger, let the Jews say goy, let the goys say Kike, let the Thais say farang, let the spics say gringos. Fuck it. Let it all out, until the words have become mere words and all the words have lost the ability to offend. Same as we did with “fuck”.
Right now we are engaged in the linguistic equivalent of Victorians shrouding piano legs in a fit of prudery. It just makes things worse, and makes everyone evermore neurotic.
Pretty comprehensive but you have missed the most important one of all.
In any event, this needs to reach the 'something else' stage by Thursday night. May simply cannot be allowed to go back to the EU with a proposal to discuss the backstop some more during an extension.
Whether an internal Tory coup, a VoNC/GE, a voluntary resignation by May or, heaven forbid, her coming up with an actual plan B, I don't too much care.
How about the 1316 Papal Conclave solution?
I think bricking the door up and allowing them only bread and water until they can make up what passes for their minds has a lot to recommend it at this moment.
BBC Radio 1 censors all these words from songs including words such as ‘weed’, ‘pussy’ and any reference to suicide, to name just some.
It always used to make me laugh how "drugs" and "ass" got censored from Nickleback's song Rock Star, on BBC radio.
On BBC subtitles there is a substitution list for obscene words. My favourite was ‘my other fur coat’
That is utterly patronising if true. Are the BBC content to broadcast such phrases but not write them down for deaf viewers?
I suspect the example given was an automated snafu on something unscripted. I think asterisks are more likely, and probably only then when the audio’s beeped??
Yes, I know why it is offensive. It implies whiteness is the default and normal setting. Plus it was used during the era of everyday racism. Yawn. Next question.
Ah, perhaps you can help me. I've heard this explanation before, but it makes no sense. Even if you take the irrational view that 'coloured woman' implies that the default woman is white, why on earth is 'woman of colour' any more acceptable? I'm sure people who read the Guardian more avidly than me must know the answer, but I've never found it.
Because whether a word is a slur is based on usage, not something you can derive purely from etymology.
But what usage? Racists have never said "coloured woman," they say "n-gg-r" - unless you can point us to some counter examples. And anyway "of colour" is close enough to "coloured" that if one is offensive they both are.
Isn't the more basic point that it is widely recognised to be offensive to a whole community(rather than just one or two individuals taking offense) and as such any decent person who wasn't actually setting out to offend, would avoid using it.
As someone pointed out last week this seems to me to be more of a basic principle of good manners.
Spot on. This really is a tedious discussion. Grown men like SeanT and RichardN really ought to be able to manage this. I'm surprised they find it such a struggle.
I don’t struggle. I know all the right words. I knew - see below - that you can’t say “orientals” in America. I am just fascinated, as a writer, by the mentality that drives this ever-changing linguistic rule book.
I can't imagine any non-gammon using the term orientals here either.
Yes. I have avoided it since my lecture from America. It does now sound jarring to me, even as a Brit.
Yet I would forgive a non-writer with less education for using it. How would he or she even know?
Scores of Chinese takeaways in the UK use "oriental" in their names.
Replaccing Theresa May with Boris Johnson under a no deal scenario should work out well for the Tories. It is the best way to unite party and country for the reasons that HYUFD has outlined.
Compare with a revocation scenario which would destroy the Tories.
In terms of government defeats from the original vote to trigger Article 50, when and what was the first important (but not necessary "meaningful") defeat for the government that would act (in hindsight) as the early warning marker of "perhaps this might not go as smoothly as thought"?
Replaccing Theresa May with Boris Johnson under a no deal scenario should work out well for the Tories. It is the best way to unite party and country for the reasons that HYUFD has outlined.
Compare with a revocation scenario which would destroy the Tories.
Yes, I know why it is offensive. It implies whiteness is the default and normal setting. Plus it was used during the era of everyday racism. Yawn. Next question.
Ah, perhaps you can help me. I've heard this explanation before, but it makes no sense. Even if you take the irrational view that 'coloured woman' implies that the default woman is white, why on earth is 'woman of colour' any more acceptable? I'm sure people who read the Guardian more avidly than me must know the answer, but I've never found it.
Because whether a word is a slur is based on usage, not something you can derive purely from etymology.
But what usage? Racists have never said "coloured woman," they say "n-gg-r" - unless you can point us to some counter examples. And anyway "of colour" is close enough to "coloured" that if one is offensive they both are.
Isn't the more basic point that it is widely recognised to be offensive to a whole community(rather than just one or two individuals taking offense) and as such any decent person who wasn't actually setting out to offend, would avoid using it.
As someone pointed out last week this seems to me to be more of a basic principle of good manners.
Spot on. This really is a tedious discussion. Grown men like SeanT and RichardN really ought to be able to manage this. I'm surprised they find it such a struggle.
I don’t struggle. I know all the right words. I knew - see below - that you can’t say “orientals” in America. I am just fascinated, as a writer, by the mentality that drives this ever-changing linguistic rule book.
I can't imagine any non-gammon using the term orientals here either.
Yes. I have avoided it since my lecture from America. It does now sound jarring to me, even as a Brit.
Yet I would forgive a non-writer with less education for using it. How would he or she even know?
Scores of Chinese takeaways in the UK use "oriental" in their names.
I wasn’t aware of this.
I’m sure I’ve used it once at some point.
At the risk of splitting hairs, is there a slight difference between oriental (adj) and orientals (pl n)? I’d also be less comfortable (on their own scales) with blacks than black people and coloureds than coloured people
Replaccing Theresa May with Boris Johnson under a no deal scenario should work out well for the Tories. It is the best way to unite party and country for the reasons that HYUFD has outlined.
Compare with a revocation scenario which would destroy the Tories.
While I agree it would unite the country, I've got to assume or at least desperately hope the rest was sarcasm.
My conclusion is that not enough of the ERG (they’re bright sparks, that lot) will work out they need to vote for the Deal in the next few minutes to keep it alive.
They’ll probably work it out in a few weeks time, by which time it’ll be history and life (and politics) will have moved on.
My conclusion is that not enough of the ERG (they’re bright sparks, that lot) will work out they need to vote for the Deal in the next few minutes to keep it alive.
They’ll probably work it out in a few weeks time, by which time it’ll be history and life (and politics) will have moved on.
Yes, it will dawn on them when Corbyn is PM and revokes A50. Idiots, the lot of them.
My conclusion is that not enough of the ERG (they’re bright sparks, that lot) will work out they need to vote for the Deal in the next few minutes to keep it alive.
They’ll probably work it out in a few weeks time, by which time it’ll be history and life (and politics) will have moved on.
May and the EU should have done better if they wanted this deal backing. This deal is pathetic and the fact its the only deal before us is not good enough.
"An officer at a former youth detention centre sexually assaulted hundreds of inmates, it has emerged." ... "However, for some victims the abuse was sexual. Husband was in charge of the kitchen and raped and abused young men on an "almost daily basis" over a period of years, police said, while other officers allegedly turned a blind eye." ... "In the same year a storeman at the centre, Leslie Johnson, who has also since died, was sentenced to six years in jail for sexual offences."
My conclusion is that not enough of the ERG (they’re bright sparks, that lot) will work out they need to vote for the Deal in the next few minutes to keep it alive.
They’ll probably work it out in a few weeks time, by which time it’ll be history and life (and politics) will have moved on.
May and the EU should have done better if they wanted this deal backing. This deal is pathetic and the fact its the only deal before us is not good enough.
The deal is a very fair deal and fully worthy of backing.
In any event, this needs to reach the 'something else' stage by Thursday night. May simply cannot be allowed to go back to the EU with a proposal to discuss the backstop some more during an extension.
Whether an internal Tory coup, a VoNC/GE, a voluntary resignation by May or, heaven forbid, her coming up with an actual plan B, I don't too much care.
How about the 1316 Papal Conclave solution?
I think bricking the door up and allowing them only bread and water until they can make up what passes for their minds has a lot to recommend it at this moment.
Such a shame they didn’t have that in mind when they drafted Article 50....
My conclusion is that not enough of the ERG (they’re bright sparks, that lot) will work out they need to vote for the Deal in the next few minutes to keep it alive.
They’ll probably work it out in a few weeks time, by which time it’ll be history and life (and politics) will have moved on.
May and the EU should have done better if they wanted this deal backing. This deal is pathetic and the fact its the only deal before us is not good enough.
The deal is a very fair deal and fully worthy of backing.
Didn't agree with you in January, don't agree with you now. Sorry but nothing has changed.
This deal was told no - emphatically - in January. It should have been changed and nothing has changed. It needs to be told no again.
In any event, this needs to reach the 'something else' stage by Thursday night. May simply cannot be allowed to go back to the EU with a proposal to discuss the backstop some more during an extension.
Whether an internal Tory coup, a VoNC/GE, a voluntary resignation by May or, heaven forbid, her coming up with an actual plan B, I don't too much care.
How about the 1316 Papal Conclave solution?
I think bricking the door up and allowing them only bread and water until they can make up what passes for their minds has a lot to recommend it at this moment.
Such a shame they didn’t have that in mind when they drafted Article 50....
I think still giving the bread and water is excessive, especially in these times of stringency. I am also not entirely sure it is necessary to leave an exit.
My conclusion is that not enough of the ERG (they’re bright sparks, that lot) will work out they need to vote for the Deal in the next few minutes to keep it alive.
They’ll probably work it out in a few weeks time, by which time it’ll be history and life (and politics) will have moved on.
May and the EU should have done better if they wanted this deal backing. This deal is pathetic and the fact its the only deal before us is not good enough.
The deal is a very fair deal and fully worthy of backing.
Didn't agree with you in January, don't agree with you now. Sorry but nothing has changed.
This deal was told no - emphatically - in January. It should have been changed and nothing has changed. It needs to be told no again.
You’re a unicorns or Remain “Brexiteer”.
Forgive me if I don’t take your views too seriously.
Replaccing Theresa May with Boris Johnson under a no deal scenario should work out well for the Tories. It is the best way to unite party and country for the reasons that HYUFD has outlined.
Compare with a revocation scenario which would destroy the Tories.
But to get No Deal through he would need to call a GE and win it with that in the manifesto.
That is a big ask even for the 2008 BoJo let alone this one.
My conclusion is that not enough of the ERG (they’re bright sparks, that lot) will work out they need to vote for the Deal in the next few minutes to keep it alive.
They’ll probably work it out in a few weeks time, by which time it’ll be history and life (and politics) will have moved on.
May and the EU should have done better if they wanted this deal backing. This deal is pathetic and the fact its the only deal before us is not good enough.
The deal is a very fair deal and fully worthy of backing.
Didn't agree with you in January, don't agree with you now. Sorry but nothing has changed.
This deal was told no - emphatically - in January. It should have been changed and nothing has changed. It needs to be told no again.
I still can't believe that Mrs May didn't go into yesterday's meeting with the AG Cox and the DUP on board. If there wasn't any change to the WA it clearly wasn't going to pass tonight.
I've been thinking about the "bad faith" negotiation stuff that was clarified, it's actually a lot more bloody useful than most MPs are willing to acknowledge. All of the heavy lifting is going to be done by the Commission, we know that. Eventually we will agree something with them, they don't want us stuck in purgatory as much as we don't want to be stuck there. The issue is, and has always been the Irish rejecting any move that keeps NI with the UK even if the Commission makes the concession at some level.
If we agree the deal with the commission and it gets voted down by Ireland, we could go to the arbitration process and it would be negotiated in bad faith by the EU as one branch has agreed and then been overused by another.
These ridiculous MPs are voting down our only realistic way to leave. Every single Tory who votes against it is a complete and utter c***.
My conclusion is that not enough of the ERG (they’re bright sparks, that lot) will work out they need to vote for the Deal in the next few minutes to keep it alive.
They’ll probably work it out in a few weeks time, by which time it’ll be history and life (and politics) will have moved on.
May and the EU should have done better if they wanted this deal backing. This deal is pathetic and the fact its the only deal before us is not good enough.
The deal is a very fair deal and fully worthy of backing.
Didn't agree with you in January, don't agree with you now. Sorry but nothing has changed.
This deal was told no - emphatically - in January. It should have been changed and nothing has changed. It needs to be told no again.
You’re a unicorns or Remain “Brexiteer”.
Forgive me if I don’t take your views too seriously.
The backstop is a unicorn. It will never pass.
The backstop is without parallel a huge and unprecedented violation in sovereignty - can you find me a simple example ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD of a sovereign nation having sacrificed its controls and customs to a foreign body in which it gets zero say and in which it can't unilaterally exit out of that arrangement to regain control?
My conclusion is that not enough of the ERG (they’re bright sparks, that lot) will work out they need to vote for the Deal in the next few minutes to keep it alive.
They’ll probably work it out in a few weeks time, by which time it’ll be history and life (and politics) will have moved on.
May and the EU should have done better if they wanted this deal backing. This deal is pathetic and the fact its the only deal before us is not good enough.
The deal is a very fair deal and fully worthy of backing.
Didn't agree with you in January, don't agree with you now. Sorry but nothing has changed.
This deal was told no - emphatically - in January. It should have been changed and nothing has changed. It needs to be told no again.
I still can't believe that Mrs May didn't go into yesterday's meeting with the AG Cox and the DUP on board. If there wasn't any change to the WA it clearly wasn't going to pass tonight.
Occam's razor here I'm afraid. She just isn't up to the job.
Hopeless and stubborn. Gone by the end of the week and won’t be missed .
Surely she cannot survive this defeat.
I’m beginning to think if a nuclear bomb hit May would be the only survivor ! But really how can she survive . I’d have a bet she will seek an extension then quit .
If May can get 250+, I think she'd see it as progress.
To what end? Even with an extension there is no way this deal passes. Even if the EU agreed some long dated time limit I don't think it would pass. Enough c*** Tory MPs like Jenkyns would vote against on some idiotic idea that we'd possibly be in it for any amount of time.
Regardless of the fact that it fucking suits us to be in the backstop for some number of years while we get independent trade deals concluded.
I've been thinking about the "bad faith" negotiation stuff that was clarified, it's actually a lot more bloody useful than most MPs are willing to acknowledge. All of the heavy lifting is going to be done by the Commission, we know that. Eventually we will agree something with them, they don't want us stuck in purgatory as much as we don't want to be stuck there. The issue is, and has always been the Irish rejecting any move that keeps NI with the UK even if the Commission makes the concession at some level.
If we agree the deal with the commission and it gets voted down by Ireland, we could go to the arbitration process and it would be negotiated in bad faith by the EU as one branch has agreed and then been overused by another.
These ridiculous MPs are voting down our only realistic way to leave. Every single Tory who votes against it is a complete and utter c***.
There really needs to be a clear out. We need a party that is coherent to provide a government. We are not even close.
My conclusion is that not enough of the ERG (they’re bright sparks, that lot) will work out they need to vote for the Deal in the next few minutes to keep it alive.
They’ll probably work it out in a few weeks time, by which time it’ll be history and life (and politics) will have moved on.
May and the EU should have done better if they wanted this deal backing. This deal is pathetic and the fact its the only deal before us is not good enough.
The deal is a very fair deal and fully worthy of backing.
Didn't agree with you in January, don't agree with you now. Sorry but nothing has changed.
This deal was told no - emphatically - in January. It should have been changed and nothing has changed. It needs to be told no again.
You’re a unicorns or Remain “Brexiteer”.
Forgive me if I don’t take your views too seriously.
The backstop is a unicorn. It will never pass.
The backstop is without parallel a huge and unprecedented violation in sovereignty - can you find me a simple example ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD of a sovereign nation having sacrificed its controls and customs to a foreign body in which it gets zero say and in which it can't unilaterally exit out of that arrangement to regain control?
To be honest, Philip, I’m both bored and tired of responding to the hyperbole on this.
There is plenty in the joint UK/EU political declaration to commit both parties to work for frictionless solutions in the permanent deal to overcome this, further reinforced by the qualifying riders and clarifying letters. It’s neither in the UK’s or EU’s interests for it to last.
And NI is going to need to have some sort of special status wrt. the EU and UK in any Brexit scenario, and indeed, does so now. The whole place is a compromise.
I've been thinking about the "bad faith" negotiation stuff that was clarified, it's actually a lot more bloody useful than most MPs are willing to acknowledge. All of the heavy lifting is going to be done by the Commission, we know that. Eventually we will agree something with them, they don't want us stuck in purgatory as much as we don't want to be stuck there. The issue is, and has always been the Irish rejecting any move that keeps NI with the UK even if the Commission makes the concession at some level.
If we agree the deal with the commission and it gets voted down by Ireland, we could go to the arbitration process and it would be negotiated in bad faith by the EU as one branch has agreed and then been overused by another.
These ridiculous MPs are voting down our only realistic way to leave. Every single Tory who votes against it is a complete and utter c***.
Cox made your first point well. He stated the point was not whether we would ever go to an arbitration about bad faith, it was how those provisions affect the process and the conduct of the parties.
I've been thinking about the "bad faith" negotiation stuff that was clarified, it's actually a lot more bloody useful than most MPs are willing to acknowledge. All of the heavy lifting is going to be done by the Commission, we know that. Eventually we will agree something with them, they don't want us stuck in purgatory as much as we don't want to be stuck there. The issue is, and has always been the Irish rejecting any move that keeps NI with the UK even if the Commission makes the concession at some level.
If we agree the deal with the commission and it gets voted down by Ireland, we could go to the arbitration process and it would be negotiated in bad faith by the EU as one branch has agreed and then been overused by another.
These ridiculous MPs are voting down our only realistic way to leave. Every single Tory who votes against it is a complete and utter c***.
There really needs to be a clear out. We need a party that is coherent to provide a government. We are not even close.
How many of the dimmer ones are in perma-safe seats? The risk is the clearout will be of realists, much like the Brown-era Labour Party.
I hate to admit this, but I’m getting rather bored of popcorn.
Nah. Complaining about too much popcorn is like complaining about too much vintage wine, or too much sex.
I think that for most of us on here tonight, this is the biggest political moment of our lifetimes.
Reminds me of the C&W song:
Too much fun, what's that mean? It's like too much money, there's no such thing It's like a girl too pretty with too much class Being too lucky, a car too fast No matter what they say, I've done But I ain't never had too much fun
Hopeless and stubborn. Gone by the end of the week and won’t be missed .
Surely she cannot survive this defeat.
In normal times, she would have had to go quite a while ago. However, in these Brexity days, you can be completely incompetent, and keep on keeping on.
Hopeless and stubborn. Gone by the end of the week and won’t be missed .
Surely she cannot survive this defeat.
I’m beginning to think if a nuclear bomb hit May would be the only survivor ! But really how can she survive . I’d have a bet she will seek an extension then quit .
Maybe she will get in a fridge just before the result is announced, I've seen Indiana Jones survive a nuclear blast like that.
Hopeless and stubborn. Gone by the end of the week and won’t be missed .
Surely she cannot survive this defeat.
Given the reality is nor can Brexit she probably can, the choice is now the Deal or Remain and no Brexit at all as the remaining votes this week will confirm
I've been thinking about the "bad faith" negotiation stuff that was clarified, it's actually a lot more bloody useful than most MPs are willing to acknowledge. All of the heavy lifting is going to be done by the Commission, we know that. Eventually we will agree something with them, they don't want us stuck in purgatory as much as we don't want to be stuck there. The issue is, and has always been the Irish rejecting any move that keeps NI with the UK even if the Commission makes the concession at some level.
If we agree the deal with the commission and it gets voted down by Ireland, we could go to the arbitration process and it would be negotiated in bad faith by the EU as one branch has agreed and then been overused by another.
These ridiculous MPs are voting down our only realistic way to leave. Every single Tory who votes against it is a complete and utter c***.
Indeed. MPs should bag the deal and move on.
I think the problem is that everyone has become so entrenched (I'm sure a lot of this is to do with the constant attention seeking on Twitter) that nobody is willing to back down or compromise anymore.
I've been thinking about the "bad faith" negotiation stuff that was clarified, it's actually a lot more bloody useful than most MPs are willing to acknowledge. All of the heavy lifting is going to be done by the Commission, we know that. Eventually we will agree something with them, they don't want us stuck in purgatory as much as we don't want to be stuck there. The issue is, and has always been the Irish rejecting any move that keeps NI with the UK even if the Commission makes the concession at some level.
If we agree the deal with the commission and it gets voted down by Ireland, we could go to the arbitration process and it would be negotiated in bad faith by the EU as one branch has agreed and then been overused by another.
These ridiculous MPs are voting down our only realistic way to leave. Every single Tory who votes against it is a complete and utter c***.
Cox made your first point well. He stated the point was not whether we would ever go to an arbitration about bad faith, it was how those provisions affect the process and the conduct of the parties.
Well yes, I think it helps to keep the Irish in line. The simple fact is that the statement has helped us a lot. They will have little choice but to vote through what the commission agrees with or we can go down the arbitration route. Something that wasn't previously available. I'm close to tearing my hair out over this stupid bloody situation. Our MPs should all be bloody sacked.
Comments
With the vote slated for 45 minutes from now I'm off to enjoy a good movie, but I'm going to have a stab and suggest it will be
Ayes 253
Noes 381
And just now James Cartlidge from Suffolk South absolutely eviscerating the WTO option .
Best race of the day was the last, an amateurs' chase. A great hard fought finish edged by Jamie Codd.
Tomorrow they say it might be cancelled on account of the wind.
NotWhatIAm on Thursday the tip.
Anything happen politics-wise today?
Whether an internal Tory coup, a VoNC/GE, a voluntary resignation by May or, heaven forbid, her coming up with an actual plan B, I don't too much care.
Patrick Moore, the astronomer and rightwinger, advocated the removal of female radio presenters because their voices were too quiet.
Let the occidents say orients!
:-)
I think bricking the door up and allowing them only bread and water until they can make up what passes for their minds has a lot to recommend it at this moment.
I’m sure I’ve used it once at some point.
That’s an interesting point.
Save that for if they crash the car.
Compare with a revocation scenario which would destroy the Tories.
Might Bite for the GC, been waiting for it, but rumours of a no show?
It'll seem much less dreary after that...
In terms of government defeats from the original vote to trigger Article 50, when and what was the first important (but not necessary "meaningful") defeat for the government that would act (in hindsight) as the early warning marker of "perhaps this might not go as smoothly as thought"?
They’ll probably work it out in a few weeks time, by which time it’ll be history and life (and politics) will have moved on.
I think that for most of us on here tonight, this is the biggest political moment of our lifetimes.
https://twitter.com/137pm/status/1103475379883466753
"An officer at a former youth detention centre sexually assaulted hundreds of inmates, it has emerged."
...
"However, for some victims the abuse was sexual. Husband was in charge of the kitchen and raped and abused young men on an "almost daily basis" over a period of years, police said, while other officers allegedly turned a blind eye."
...
"In the same year a storeman at the centre, Leslie Johnson, who has also since died, was sentenced to six years in jail for sexual offences."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-47258310
Sexual abuse is sadly more common than most of us care to think ...
Tonight, PB has fallen to the cu...lt of pineapple on pizza.
Hopeless and stubborn. Gone by the end of the week and won’t be missed .
This deal was told no - emphatically - in January. It should have been changed and nothing has changed. It needs to be told no again.
Forgive me if I don’t take your views too seriously.
That is a big ask even for the 2008 BoJo let alone this one.
If we agree the deal with the commission and it gets voted down by Ireland, we could go to the arbitration process and it would be negotiated in bad faith by the EU as one branch has agreed and then been overused by another.
These ridiculous MPs are voting down our only realistic way to leave. Every single Tory who votes against it is a complete and utter c***.
The backstop is without parallel a huge and unprecedented violation in sovereignty - can you find me a simple example ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD of a sovereign nation having sacrificed its controls and customs to a foreign body in which it gets zero say and in which it can't unilaterally exit out of that arrangement to regain control?
Regardless of the fact that it fucking suits us to be in the backstop for some number of years while we get independent trade deals concluded.
There is plenty in the joint UK/EU political declaration to commit both parties to work for frictionless solutions in the permanent deal to overcome this, further reinforced by the qualifying riders and clarifying letters. It’s neither in the UK’s or EU’s interests for it to last.
And NI is going to need to have some sort of special status wrt. the EU and UK in any Brexit scenario, and indeed, does so now. The whole place is a compromise.
Prediction: Govt loses by 138 votes
Mrs May 1.38 to leave office before Brexit
Leave on time 7
Vote of confidence in the government to be held in 2019 1.41 <<<-----Massive value
Too much fun, what's that mean?
It's like too much money, there's no such thing
It's like a girl too pretty with too much class
Being too lucky, a car too fast
No matter what they say, I've done
But I ain't never had too much fun
I was sitting at work in an Aviation Insurance Broker and the first we heard of the CAA 737 MAX grounding was via .. PB!
I think the problem is that everyone has become so entrenched (I'm sure a lot of this is to do with the constant attention seeking on Twitter) that nobody is willing to back down or compromise anymore.
It amuses me that the term for this condition is rhotacism. Hence a condition the afflicted cannot pronounce.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhotacism_(speech_impediment)
https://twitter.com/HannahB4LiviMP/status/1105545999433510912
It seems to be their only policy at the moment.
This led to one of Skinner's most withering one-liners:
Jenkins: I leave without rancour.
Skinner: I thought you were taking Marquand with you.