1. is not going to get past the EU so you might as well take it off the list. Why do so many people think that the world revolves around the UK? The UK can't just "go back" to the EU and ask for this, that or the other.
Well we can go back and ask. Won't get it though.
.
You don't go into a negotiation with that attitude.
Listen, it doesn't suit the EU for us to walk away with no deal. We can bargain with a better leader at the helm. We can be much much tougher with them on key issues.
And we'd win.
Unbelievable! Still some people cling to the myth that 'they need us more than we need them'.
That's not what I wrote. Money talks and EU business does not want to see No Deal. It would hit them very hard. And us. We have a strong negotiating hand on that front, the one which always matters most. Money.
We're wargaming it in my office. My colleague (very anti Labour, anti Brexit would probably switch to remain now. He also thinks the Tories are going to get slaughtered if we do remain in a second ref. I don't think he's wrong.
The Brexiter line: it's always some else's fault. It's the EU's fault. It's May's fault. It's not my fault.
But it is. Anyone who voted for leave owns this, and owns the consequences.
Well done for completely ignoring my point.
Your 'point' wasn't a point. It was a pathetic blame-shifting exercise (and ignored the fact we'd had a previous referendum).
So how should we have left the EU then?
And the previous referendum wasn't for what the EU turned into. Geez some people really are EU fanatics.
For the record, I'm not a fan of the EU; I could live with it as it is, but do not like the direction it is heading in. I was going to vote leave, but the sheer inconsistencies and tone of the leave campaigns made me vote for the lesser evil of remain.
If that makes me an 'EU fanatic', so be it.
I could respond in kind, but as you're a new poster I'll let you off gently.
But what was the alternative? Stay in the EU forever in a direction the majority don't want? or something else?
I'm honestly struggling to see what the best thing we should have done is.
Agree a national position then declare A50, negotiate from WTO to an eventual settlement
Another leaver sharing their infinite wisdom with us ...
Tell me, how the fuyck do we agree a 'national position' given the lies of the leave campaign?
'Agree a national position...' a perfect example of begging the question.
1. is not going to get past the EU so you might as well take it off the list. Why do so many people think that the world revolves around the UK? The UK can't just "go back" to the EU and ask for this, that or the other.
Well we can go back and ask. Won't get it though.
.
You don't go into a negotiation with that attitude.
Listen, it doesn't suit the EU for us to walk away with no deal. We can bargain with a better leader at the helm. We can be much much tougher with them on key issues.
And we'd win.
Unbelievable! Still some people cling to the myth that 'they need us more than we need them'.
A No Deal WTO crash-out, would hurt the EU... but not nearly as much as allowing the UK to continue to have the benefits of membership without the obligations. Nor would No Deal hurt the EU anything like as much as it will hurt the UK.
And the upside for them is that they maintain their unity and commitment to the European project (which Brexit has strengthened) and the self-inflicted damage we incur is a very effective demonstration that countries are better off as members.
The Brexiter line: it's always some else's fault. It's the EU's fault. It's May's fault. It's not my fault.
But it is. Anyone who voted for leave owns this, and owns the consequences.
Well done for completely ignoring my point.
Your 'point' wasn't a point. It was a pathetic blame-shifting exercise (and ignored the fact we'd had a previous referendum).
So how should we have left the EU then?
And the previous referendum wasn't for what the EU turned into. Geez some people really are EU fanatics.
For the record, I'm not a fan of the EU; I could live with it as it is, but do not like the direction it is heading in. I was going to vote leave, but the sheer inconsistencies and tone of the leave campaigns made me vote for the lesser evil of remain.
If that makes me an 'EU fanatic', so be it.
I could respond in kind, but as you're a new poster I'll let you off gently.
But what was the alternative? Stay in the EU forever in a direction the majority don't want? or something else?
I'm honestly struggling to see what the best thing we should have done is.
Agree a national position then declare A50, negotiate from WTO to an eventual settlement
Another leaver sharing their infinite wisdom with us ...
Tell me, how the fuyck do we agree a 'national position' given the lies of the leave campaign?
The Brexiter line: it's always some else's fault. It's the EU's fault. It's May's fault. It's not my fault.
But it is. Anyone who voted for leave owns this, and owns the consequences.
Well done for completely ignoring my point.
Your 'point' wasn't a point. It was a pathetic blame-shifting exercise (and ignored the fact we'd had a previous referendum).
So how should we have left the EU then?
And the previous referendum wasn't for what the EU turned into. Geez some people really are EU fanatics.
For the record, I'm not a fan of the EU; I could live with it as it is, but do not like the direction it is heading in. I was going to vote leave, but the sheer inconsistencies and tone of the leave campaigns made me vote for the lesser evil of remain.
If that makes me an 'EU fanatic', so be it.
I could respond in kind, but as you're a new poster I'll let you off gently.
But what was the alternative? Stay in the EU forever in a direction the majority don't want? or something else?
I'm honestly struggling to see what the best thing we should have done is.
Who is 'we' ?
And that's the issue: 'we' as a nation are totally split wrt the EU. There are those who want to remain, the Eurosceptcis who quite like the idea but thing it's going a bit far, and the Europhobes. In between are a whole gamut of opinions and views, from xernophobic throw-out-the-furriners thugs to the join-the-Euro happy loons.
Even if you push and squeeze into various groups, there is not a majority for any one option, and too many people believe strongly that *their* view is the right one, and hence compromise is impossible.
The issue was that leave, in order to win, had to promise inconsistent things. And when they won, leavers saw *their* promise as the one that had to be delivered, even if it was different to another leavers'.
May's deal is a compromise. It may or may not be a messy one, but it is about the only compromise possible. Sadly, too many people are unwilling to compromise.
Most people see 'We' as 'Me' or 'I' Therein lies the root of many of the problems of modern society.
I think May is right about the "go back and think again" tag applying to a 2nd referendum... I would love us to reamin but I fear a 2nd referendum would provoke a (not very sensible) "sod-em" reaction. This deal is the best option imo.
Okay, time for a serious question: what are the time pressures that face us, both internally and externally? Is it just the EU elections, or are there other deadlines?
1. is not going to get past the EU so you might as well take it off the list. Why do so many people think that the world revolves around the UK? The UK can't just "go back" to the EU and ask for this, that or the other.
Well we can go back and ask. Won't get it though.
.
You don't go into a negotiation with that attitude.
Listen, it doesn't suit the EU for us to walk away with no deal. We can bargain with a better leader at the helm. We can be much much tougher with them on key issues.
And we'd win.
Unbelievable! Still some people cling to the myth that 'they need us more than we need them'.
A No Deal WTO crash-out, would hurt the EU... but not nearly as much as allowing the UK to continue to have the benefits of membership without the obligations. Nor would No Deal hurt the EU anything like as much as it will hurt the UK.
And the upside for them is that they maintain their unity and commitment to the European project (which Brexit has strengthened) and the self-inflicted damage we incur is a very effective demonstration that countries are better off as members.
Equally it may discourage other countries from joining but I'm not sure what countries are rushing to join the EU...
The Brexiter line: it's always some else's fault. It's the EU's fault. It's May's fault. It's not my fault.
But it is. Anyone who voted for leave owns this, and owns the consequences.
Well done for completely ignoring my point.
Your 'point' wasn't a point. It was a pathetic blame-shifting exercise (and ignored the fact we'd had a previous referendum).
So how should we have left the EU then?
And the previous referendum wasn't for what the EU turned into. Geez some people really are EU fanatics.
For the record, I'm not a fan of the EU; I could live with it as it is, but do not like the direction it is heading in. I was going to vote leave, but the sheer inconsistencies and tone of the leave campaigns made me vote for the lesser evil of remain.
If that makes me an 'EU fanatic', so be it.
I could respond in kind, but as you're a new poster I'll let you off gently.
But what was the alternative? Stay in the EU forever in a direction the majority don't want? or something else?
I'm honestly struggling to see what the best thing we should have done is.
Agree a national position then declare A50, negotiate from WTO to an eventual settlement
Another leaver sharing their infinite wisdom with us ...
Tell me, how the fuyck do we agree a 'national position' given the lies of the leave campaign?
hmmm your having a Brexit fit
come back when youve calmed down
Nope, not having a fit.
Just enjoying seeing leavers squirm at trying to avoid the blame for the mess they've created.
Okay, time for a serious question: what are the time pressures that face us, both internally and externally? Is it just the EU elections, or are there other deadlines?
I think the next EU budget period starts in 2021, which is why the transition period provisionally ends at the end of 2020.
I don't know how people can answer fully whether they want another referendum or not unless they have a clear idea what'd be on the ballot.
And given its been funded by the people's vote campagn it would be interesting to see the exact questions asked of those polled.
As we know based on previous polling ask people if they want a second referendum on Brexit and a people's vote on the deal and you can get very different results even though they are potentially the same thing.
Why are they called the people's vote campaign rather than the second Brexit referendum campaign?!
Okay, time for a serious question: what are the time pressures that face us, both internally and externally? Is it just the EU elections, or are there other deadlines?
Article 50 date - extendable by unanimity Then end of the transition which aligns with the budget period - not yet agreed so inherently negotiable
Okay, time for a serious question: what are the time pressures that face us, both internally and externally? Is it just the EU elections, or are there other deadlines?
Article 50 date - extendable by unanimity
Surely the case for this is now compelling? Remainers want it. Brexiters probably will too. Sane middle of the road people would.
Why?
Because Theresa May has come up with the worst of possible worlds. An awful deal that must be kicked into touch.
The Brexiter line: it's always some else's fault. It's the EU's fault. It's May's fault. It's not my fault.
But it is. Anyone who voted for leave owns this, and owns the consequences.
Well done for completely ignoring my point.
Your 'point' wasn't a point. It was a pathetic blame-shifting exercise (and ignored the fact we'd had a previous referendum).
So how should we have left the EU then?
And the previous referendum wasn't for what the EU turned into. Geez some people really are EU fanatics.
For the record, I'm not a fan of the EU; I could live with it as it is, but do not like the direction it is heading in. I was going to vote leave, but the sheer inconsistencies and tone of the leave campaigns made me vote for the lesser evil of remain.
If that makes me an 'EU fanatic', so be it.
I could respond in kind, but as you're a new poster I'll let you off gently.
But what was the alternative? Stay in the EU forever in a direction the majority don't want? or something else?
I'm honestly struggling to see what the best thing we should have done is.
Agree a national position then declare A50, negotiate from WTO to an eventual settlement
Another leaver sharing their infinite wisdom with us ...
Tell me, how the fuyck do we agree a 'national position' given the lies of the leave campaign?
hmmm your having a Brexit fit
come back when youve calmed down
Nope, not having a fit.
Just enjoying seeing leavers squirm at trying to avoid the blame for the mess they've created.
you need a lie down or go for a walk, a break will do you good
I think May is right about the "go back and think again" tag applying to a 2nd referendum... I would love us to reamin but I fear a 2nd referendum would provoke a (not very sensible) "sod-em" reaction. This deal is the best option imo.
It is the best option but it’s not going to get through the current parliament so we either have no deal, another vote, extend article 50 and keep negotiating this mythical dream alternative deal, or a GE.
Those are the options on the table as far as I can see.
'Cause you had a bad May You're taking one down You sing a sad song just to turn it around You say you don't know You tell me don't lie You work at a smile, and you go for a ride You had a bad May The camera don't lie You're coming back down, and you really don't mind You had a bad May You had a bad May
The Brexiter line: it's always some else's fault. It's the EU's fault. It's May's fault. It's not my fault.
But it is. Anyone who voted for leave owns this, and owns the consequences.
Well done for completely ignoring my point.
Your 'point' wasn't a point. It was a pathetic blame-shifting exercise (and ignored the fact we'd had a previous referendum).
So how should we have left the EU then?
And the previous referendum wasn't for what the EU turned into. Geez some people really are EU fanatics.
For the record, I'm not a fan of the EU; I could live with it as it is, but do not like the direction it is heading in. I was going to vote leave, but the sheer inconsistencies and tone of the leave campaigns made me vote for the lesser evil of remain.
If that makes me an 'EU fanatic', so be it.
I could respond in kind, but as you're a new poster I'll let you off gently.
But what was the alternative? Stay in the EU forever in a direction the majority don't want? or something else?
I'm honestly struggling to see what the best thing we should have done is.
Agree a national position then declare A50, negotiate from WTO to an eventual settlement
Another leaver sharing their infinite wisdom with us ...
Tell me, how the fuyck do we agree a 'national position' given the lies of the leave campaign?
hmmm your having a Brexit fit
come back when youve calmed down
Nope, not having a fit.
Just enjoying seeing leavers squirm at trying to avoid the blame for the mess they've created.
you need a lie down or go for a walk, a break will do you good
How about you having a break whilst you consider the mess you helped us get into? I can recommend some good walks.
Jeremy Hunt watching his leadership ambitions going up in smoke.
Imagine his beady eyes being all sad as he realizes he may have missed the optimal resignation window.
Hunt is a nauseating careerist with no political beliefs or convictions apart from his own self-advancement. So he fits into modern Westminster very well.
I think May is right about the "go back and think again" tag applying to a 2nd referendum... I would love us to reamin but I fear a 2nd referendum would provoke a (not very sensible) "sod-em" reaction. This deal is the best option imo.
Even if Remain won, it doesn't fix anything, as no issue that lead to Leave winning is resolved by Remain. As a country we'd be back to where we were in 2015 and still have all the same problems with the EU to deal with.
Nicky Morgan nails the Brexiteer for the hypocritical wankers that they are.
I’m not going to lie, she is going up in my estimation. Everything she and Mad Anna were screaming about the leavers since Brexit has been shown to be pretty much spot on.
She can't really bring this to a vote, can she? Certain defeat, and humiliation. Only last night, it was cheerfully asserted it would pass on Labour votes and abstentions. No chance.
The Brexiter line: it's always some else's fault. It's the EU's fault. It's May's fault. It's not my fault.
But it is. Anyone who voted for leave owns this, and owns the consequences.
Well done for completely ignoring my point.
Your 'point' wasn't a point. It was a pathetic blame-shifting exercise (and ignored the fact we'd had a previous referendum).
So how should we have left the EU then?
And the previous referendum wasn't for what the EU turned into. Geez some people really are EU fanatics.
For the record, I'm not a fan of the EU; I could live with it as it is, but do not like the direction it is heading in. I was going to vote leave, but the sheer inconsistencies and tone of the leave campaigns made me vote for the lesser evil of remain.
If that makes me an 'EU fanatic', so be it.
I could respond in kind, but as you're a new poster I'll let you off gently.
But what was the alternative? Stay in the EU forever in a direction the majority don't want? or something else?
I'm honestly struggling to see what the best thing we should have done is.
Who is 'we' ?
And that's the issue: 'we' as a nation are totally split wrt the EU. There are those who want to remain, the Eurosceptcis who quite like the idea but thing it's going a bit far, and the Europhobes. In between are a whole gamut of opinions and views, from xernophobic throw-out-the-furriners thugs to the join-the-Euro happy loons.
Even if you push and squeeze into various groups, there is not a majority for any one option, and too many people believe strongly that *their* view is the right one, and hence compromise is impossible.
The issue was that leave, in order to win, had to promise inconsistent things. And when they won, leavers saw *their* promise as the one that had to be delivered, even if it was different to another leavers'.
May's deal is a compromise. It may or may not be a messy one, but it is about the only compromise possible. Sadly, too many people are unwilling to compromise.
So leave didn't really win the referendum in your eyes because you didn't like the campaign, so we can't properly leave.
I have to say that May has gone up in my estimation. Trying to lead this shower must take the patience of Job.
I agree. As Richard Nabavi says, posterity will be kind to May, because she's been clearly trying to do her best, even as her best was nowhere near good enough.
The world's gone mad. And Westminster isn't much better.
I for one will never support a party led by Dominic Raab. I think what he has done today is despicable and reckless.
I agree. He should either not have accepted the job of Brexit Secretary, or stepped down weeks ago. Going along with a deal, and then disowning it at the last moment is dishonourable.
She can't really bring this to a vote, can she? Certain defeat, and humiliation. Only last night, it was cheerfully asserted it would pass on Labour votes and abstentions. No chance.
I think it has to come to a vote otherwise it is no deal
The world's gone mad. And Westminster isn't much better.
I for one will never support a party led by Dominic Raab. I think what he has done today is despicable and reckless.
I agree. He should either not have accepted the job of Brexit Secretary, or stepped down weeks ago. Going along with a deal, and then disowning it at the last moment is dishonourable.
According to the press he was kept in the dark and never saw the deal until just before the cabinet meeting.
She can't really bring this to a vote, can she? Certain defeat, and humiliation. Only last night, it was cheerfully asserted it would pass on Labour votes and abstentions. No chance.
I would.
If it gets voted down the markets crash and MPs will be under pressure to accept the deal.
This is what happened with TARP in America back in 2008, and what George Osborne's former Chief of Staff predicted would happen earlier on this week
1. is not going to get past the EU so you might as well take it off the list. Why do so many people think that the world revolves around the UK? The UK can't just "go back" to the EU and ask for this, that or the other.
Well we can go back and ask. Won't get it though.
The curious thing is the Brexiteers have got all hung up on the withdrawal agreement, but the actual draft declaration on the future relationship - which is after all what matters - looks rather good, better that I expected. Of course the devil will be in the detail, but it's encouraging, or would be if Brexiteers weren't hell-bent on trying to ensure Brexit is either a total disaster or never happens.
Was it actually a good agreement? I had the impression we still had to do everything the EU wants with no say in anything.
It would be interesting - and highly relevant - to know what the EU and other member states are making of what's happening today.
If they come to the view that Britain cannot stick to its side of the bargain, what will they do?
Say "This is the deal. Take it or leave it. And if you don't take it before 29 Marchit's the hardest of Brexits for you. After that date come back to talk to us when you're serious. Our focus will be on protecting ourselves and our citizens."
As for JRM surely the answer was, well, have you asked your nanny yet Jacob?
Beneath contempt.
I have not been a fan of May, I have been appalled by her incompetence and prevarication, her failure to prepare for no deal, the undermining of those trying to negotiate, the deliberate obfuscation and the meaningless cliches but really, enough.
The world's gone mad. And Westminster isn't much better.
I for one will never support a party led by Dominic Raab. I think what he has done today is despicable and reckless.
I agree. He should either not have accepted the job of Brexit Secretary, or stepped down weeks ago. Going along with a deal, and then disowning it at the last moment is dishonourable.
According to the press he was kept in the dark and never saw the deal until just before the cabinet meeting.
1. I find that hard to be believe, but 2. if he was being kept in the dark, then he ought to have resigned sooner.
She can't really bring this to a vote, can she? Certain defeat, and humiliation. Only last night, it was cheerfully asserted it would pass on Labour votes and abstentions. No chance.
Not in the current atmosphere. Things probably need to cool down a bit, allow remainers to realise that there's no time for a 2nd referendum now before March, and the less crazy ERG types hopefully start to see the dangers of a Corbyn government.
It's this withdrawal agreement, or nothing. The EU negotiators aren't going to offer anything more.
The world's gone mad. And Westminster isn't much better.
I for one will never support a party led by Dominic Raab. I think what he has done today is despicable and reckless.
I agree. He should either not have accepted the job of Brexit Secretary, or stepped down weeks ago. Going along with a deal, and then disowning it at the last moment is dishonourable.
The world's gone mad. And Westminster isn't much better.
I for one will never support a party led by Dominic Raab. I think what he has done today is despicable and reckless.
I agree. He should either not have accepted the job of Brexit Secretary, or stepped down weeks ago. Going along with a deal, and then disowning it at the last moment is dishonourable.
Yesterday anybody who spoke out was being unforgivably rash for not reading the full text first. Today they're unforgivably duplicitous for stringing May along all day
I have to say that May has gone up in my estimation. Trying to lead this shower must take the patience of Job.
It was her awful decision to call a General Election and piss-poor performance that lost her a stonking majority.
She is entirely to blame.
We are where we are. I wish the Conservative had a working majority (although they'd probably still fight like ferrets in a sack) but they don't. Given where we are, I don't see how anyone could have done any better.
Started a while ago.... There are now signs that the SNP are breaking up into different factions, only united in the varying dislikes of Sturgeon and Murrell...
The world's gone mad. And Westminster isn't much better.
I for one will never support a party led by Dominic Raab. I think what he has done today is despicable and reckless.
I agree. He should either not have accepted the job of Brexit Secretary, or stepped down weeks ago. Going along with a deal, and then disowning it at the last moment is dishonourable.
According to the press he was kept in the dark and never saw the deal until just before the cabinet meeting.
1. I find that hard to be believe, but 2. if he was being kept in the dark, then he ought to have resigned sooner.
He should have resigned at the weekend because he met with Coveney and said he needed a get of clause from the backstop. May immediately dispatched Liddington to see Varadkar and undermined him. This has been the whole strategy from May, secret squirrel stuff especially after she moved Robbins and 1/2 of DexEU to work in No 10. The cabinet had no idea of Chequers until months of work was magically produced. One of the main reasons May is in this mess is her lack of person management skills.
I have to say that May has gone up in my estimation. Trying to lead this shower must take the patience of Job.
It was her awful decision to call a General Election and piss-poor performance that lost her a stonking majority.
She is entirely to blame.
We are where we are. I wish the Conservative had a working majority (although they'd probably still fight like ferrets in a sack) but they don't. Given where we are, I don't see how anyone could have done any better.
Then you're not a negotiator.
You have to play hard. And not have people like Olly Robbins dictating it.
The world's gone mad. And Westminster isn't much better.
I for one will never support a party led by Dominic Raab. I think what he has done today is despicable and reckless.
I agree. He should either not have accepted the job of Brexit Secretary, or stepped down weeks ago. Going along with a deal, and then disowning it at the last moment is dishonourable.
Yesterday anybody who spoke out was being unforgivably rash for not reading the full text first. Today they're unforgivably duplicitous for stringing May along all day
The cabinet will have seen all the detail last night they knew then if they backed it
It would be interesting - and highly relevant - to know what the EU and other member states are making of what's happening today.
If they come to the view that Britain cannot stick to its side of the bargain, what will they do?
Say "This is the deal. Take it or leave it. And if you don't take it before 29 Marchit's the hardest of Brexits for you. After that date come back to talk to us when you're serious. Our focus will be on protecting ourselves and our citizens."
Or what?
Pretty much. They may also add that they still have affection for Britain and would be willing to pretend that the last three years didn't happen if we asked them to forget it all.
The Brexiter line: it's always some else's fault. It's the EU's fault. It's May's fault. It's not my fault.
But it is. Anyone who voted for leave owns this, and owns the consequences.
Well done for completely ignoring my point.
Your 'point' wasn't a point. It was a pathetic blame-shifting exercise (and ignored the fact we'd had a previous referendum).
So how should we have left the EU then?
And the previous referendum wasn't for what the EU turned into. Geez some people really are EU fanatics.
If that makes me an 'EU fanatic', so be it.
I could respond in kind, but as you're a new poster I'll let you off gently.
But what was the alternative? Stay in the EU forever in a direction the majority don't want? or something else?
I'm honestly struggling to see what the best thing we should have done is.
Who is 'we' ?
And that's the issue: 'we' as a nation are totally split wrt the EU. There are those who want to remain, the Eurosceptcis who quite like the idea but thing it's going a bit far, and the Europhobes. In between are a whole gamut of opinions and views, from xernophobic throw-out-the-furriners thugs to the join-the-Euro happy loons.
Even if you push and squeeze into various groups, there is not a majority for any one option, and too many people believe strongly that *their* view is the right one, and hence compromise is impossible.
The issue was that leave, in order to win, had to promise inconsistent things. And when they won, leavers saw *their* promise as the one that had to be delivered, even if it was different to another leavers'.
May's deal is a compromise. It may or may not be a messy one, but it is about the only compromise possible. Sadly, too many people are unwilling to compromise.
So leave didn't really win the referendum in your eyes because you didn't like the campaign, so we can't properly leave.
Mr Jessop is right, Leave argued for all sorts of things but very few argued for 'No Deal' (is that what you mean by 'proerly leave'?) Mrs May's deal would fulfil the referendum result even if it is Brexit In Name Only and worse than staying.
The world's gone mad. And Westminster isn't much better.
I for one will never support a party led by Dominic Raab. I think what he has done today is despicable and reckless.
Agreed about Raab. But as for opting for a nightwatchman, one over to go before close of play is about the only time it's ever right to consider it (and then reject the idea).
She can't really bring this to a vote, can she? Certain defeat, and humiliation. Only last night, it was cheerfully asserted it would pass on Labour votes and abstentions. No chance.
Not in the current atmosphere. Things probably need to cool down a bit, allow remainers to realise that there's no time for a 2nd referendum now before March, and the less crazy ERG types hopefully start to see the dangers of a Corbyn government.
It's this withdrawal agreement, or nothing. The EU negotiators aren't going to offer anything more.
Only if the UK offers something more in return.
No deal can pass without a meaningful break clause. I'm astonished that the PM and Robbins thought that could be agreed to (however unlikely it is to ever be used). In order to get that, the government will probably need to sign up to an even closer transitional arrangement, which also happily removes the NI/GB distinction and hence satisfies the DUP's red line.
The Brexiter line: it's always some else's fault. It's the EU's fault. It's May's fault. It's not my fault.
But it is. Anyone who voted for leave owns this, and owns the consequences.
Well done for completely ignoring my point.
Your 'point' wasn't a point. It was a pathetic blame-shifting exercise (and ignored the fact we'd had a previous referendum).
So how should we have left the EU then?
And the previous referendum wasn't for what the EU turned into. Geez some people really are EU fanatics.
For the record, I'm not a fan of the EU; I could live with it as it is, but do not like the direction it is heading in. I was going to vote leave, but the sheer inconsistencies and tone of the leave campaigns made me vote for the lesser evil of remain.
If that makes me an 'EU fanatic', so be it.
I could respond in kind, but as you're a new poster I'll let you off gently.
But what was the alternative? Stay in the EU forever in a direction the majority don't want? or something else?
I'm honestly struggling to see what the best thing we should have done is.
Agree a national position then declare A50, negotiate from WTO to an eventual settlement
Another leaver sharing their infinite wisdom with us ...
Tell me, how the fuyck do we agree a 'national position' given the lies of the leave campaign?
hmmm your having a Brexit fit
come back when youve calmed down
Nope, not having a fit.
Just enjoying seeing leavers squirm at trying to avoid the blame for the mess they've created.
you need a lie down or go for a walk, a break will do you good
How about you having a break whilst you consider the mess you helped us get into? I can recommend some good walks.
whilst you consider the mess you helped us get into?
thats just funny, remind me how exactly I shaped the nation's politics ? LOL
I must give thanks to my now former employer for freeing up my time to be able to watch this (and indeed further Brexishambles) and to be paying me handsomely to do so.
Comments
come back when youve calmed down
Therein lies the root of many of the problems of modern society.
*lots of problems with that though
Just enjoying seeing leavers squirm at trying to avoid the blame for the mess they've created.
Ooh, you catty bitch.
As we know based on previous polling ask people if they want a second referendum on Brexit and a people's vote on the deal and you can get very different results even though they are potentially the same thing.
Why are they called the people's vote campaign rather than the second Brexit referendum campaign?!
Then end of the transition which aligns with the budget period - not yet agreed so inherently negotiable
Why?
Because Theresa May has come up with the worst of possible worlds. An awful deal that must be kicked into touch.
I'm no fan of her but over the past two decades that's unprecedented.
Can removing her guarantee better polling?
Those are the options on the table as far as I can see.
You're taking one down
You sing a sad song just to turn it around
You say you don't know
You tell me don't lie
You work at a smile, and you go for a ride
You had a bad May
The camera don't lie
You're coming back down, and you really don't mind
You had a bad May
You had a bad May
Perhaps that's the problem: the thick idiots are sending a letter at a time: "D", "e", "a", " r," etc, rather than a fully-fledged letter.
And the letters are probably written in crayon ...
You're an opener, this is what you have to do.
WHERE IS HE?
I can feel his presence, somewhere just out of sight. Are his intentions benign or malign? When will he strike, whatever that means?
I for one will never support a party led by Dominic Raab. I think what he has done today is despicable and reckless.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/15/shameful-day-sri-lanka-mps-fight-in-parliament-as-power-struggle-deepens
No chance.
They'll love her when she's on strictly 2019
https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1063032643871223810?s=20
She is entirely to blame.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46216847
If it gets voted down the markets crash and MPs will be under pressure to accept the deal.
This is what happened with TARP in America back in 2008, and what George Osborne's former Chief of Staff predicted would happen earlier on this week
Has he been seen today?
If they come to the view that Britain cannot stick to its side of the bargain, what will they do?
Say "This is the deal. Take it or leave it. And if you don't take it before 29 Marchit's the hardest of Brexits for you. After that date come back to talk to us when you're serious. Our focus will be on protecting ourselves and our citizens."
Or what?
Beneath contempt.
I have not been a fan of May, I have been appalled by her incompetence and prevarication, her failure to prepare for no deal, the undermining of those trying to negotiate, the deliberate obfuscation and the meaningless cliches but really, enough.
https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1063032952601358336
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE, THERESA?
It's this withdrawal agreement, or nothing. The EU negotiators aren't going to offer anything more.
https://order-order.com/2018/11/15/raab-refused-board-jet-brussels-last-night/
One of the main reasons May is in this mess is her lack of person management skills.
Epic epic epic
The political class is eating itself.
You have to play hard. And not have people like Olly Robbins dictating it.
Mrs May's deal would fulfil the referendum result even if it is Brexit In Name Only and worse than staying.
But as for opting for a nightwatchman, one over to go before close of play is about the only time it's ever right to consider it (and then reject the idea).
No deal can pass without a meaningful break clause. I'm astonished that the PM and Robbins thought that could be agreed to (however unlikely it is to ever be used). In order to get that, the government will probably need to sign up to an even closer transitional arrangement, which also happily removes the NI/GB distinction and hence satisfies the DUP's red line.
thats just funny, remind me how exactly I shaped the nation's politics ? LOL
Edit except I can't do formatting!
I think she has done her best .
But she seems not to be taking in the reality of the parliamentary situation.
She is becoming delusional.