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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Raab’s resignation sparks off huge movements on the TMay exit,

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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    edited November 2018

    Thornberry is loving this.

    It's taken all the risk out of Labour's decision - I think they'll unaminously vote against the deal, or near enough. Nandy, Flint and others can just point at the lack of support amongst the Tories and say "How can we vote for this deal when they can't vote for it themselves".
    Makes life very easy for what should have been a tricky time for Corbyn.
  • This is more serious - from BBC cricket

    Phil Burdekin: Since 9am there have been more cabinet resignations then Sri Lankan wickets...

    We could be four wickets down before the deficit is erased.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    Corbyn picking at the scabs on the Tory benches. His speech is offering up to angry Tories all the things they hate that remain in the deal

    I agree he has been briefed well for this. Somebody has done the legwork.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Corbyn shows he is perfectly competent at scoring in an open goal.
  • There is nothing in law requiring the PM to be a Member of Parliament - indeed all of them spend election campaigns not as an MP. So why just look to the tired members of the green benches.

    Possible leaders of the National Government
    Nigel Farrage
    Tony Blair
    Alan Sugar
    Howling Laud Hope
    Jane Horrocks (it worked on The Amazing Mrs Pritchard

    Brian Cox.
    Brian Blessed.
    Ken Clarke
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Will the last person to leave Her Majesty's Government please turn out the lights... :D

    And indeed Brexit. It seems inevitable that we will remain now
    Remain is better than May's deal.

    But make no mistake the Conservatives will rue the day they went against the referendum result.
    They didn't.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Alright Anna, you smartarse, who leads that to do what? Remain? Oh how convenient.
    @Kle4 I think we (I include you as a moderate) have to face reality, the vision of a sensible brexit died today I think. It's either remain or no deal. It's a shame because May's deal looked good to me.
    I think you are right. I really don’t see how we avoid a second referendum now.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    Who resigns at 11? Maybe Hunt-Javid-Gove will all go together....?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Corbyn-"the current Prime Minister". Ouch.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    Corbyn looking strong today. Hope he's ready.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Thornberry is loving this.

    It's taken all the risk out of Labour's decision - I think they'll unaminously vote against the deal.
    And then what
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Blimey Corbyn is doing a good job.

    Didn't think I'd ever write those words.
  • There was a narrow window for the Conservatives to rescue something from the disaster of Brexit by getting behind this deal. Tim Montgomerie, of all people, saw that. These resigning ministers have been unbelievably foolish.
  • Hate to say it but May is so atrocious Corbyn is coming across as forensic and Prime Ministerial in comparison. What has she done!? :'(
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177
    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Alright Anna, you smartarse, who leads that to do what? Remain? Oh how convenient.
    @Kle4 I think we (I include you as a moderate) have to face reality, the vision of a sensible brexit died today I think. It's either remain or no deal. It's a shame because May's deal looked good to me.
    Remain is the way now. Getting there still not easy.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Jonathan said:

    Corbyn looking strong today. Hope he's ready.

    Corbyn is getting a lot better at this.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    dixiedean said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    The fundamental fact in all this is that May does not have the votes in the HoC. She needs to make a bold offer to someone.

    A referendum or an election.

    The SNP an IndyRef to opt-out of the deal.
    Labour a 1 Mar General Election.

    or

    A second referendum. Deal, No Deal or No Brexit.
    I thought of that, but I don't think the SNP would take Indyref2 now, they want to do it in a couple of years when the Brexit backlash is at its nastiest in Scotland.

    But yes: if May made an agreement to form a grand coalition with Corbyn that lasts until the day after the deal is voted through Parliament followed by an immediate dissolution and early Jan election?

    Corbyn would go for that.
    She would be out of office the day she suggested it
    It's looking like she's going to be out of office today anyway. She's got nothing left to lose. ROLL THOSE DICE.
    She is not going to make a suicidal offer to labour, though how long she stays in office is another question
    She needs to do something radical.
    It is Hail Mary time.
    GE 2nd referendum, national govt, article 50 withdrawal or resignation.
    Nothing has changed is not an option.
    - A GE can't support her position; it would deliver govt to Lab. Not an option for her.
    - A national government isn't possible because there aren't the MPs to support it.
    - A 2nd referendum? On what? And is it worth weeks of parliamentary fighting to deliver a vote that results in a murky mandate?
    - A50 withdrawal is legally dubious: the Notification Act only gave her the right to notify the EU of the UK's intention to leave; not its intention to remain. On top of which is whether it's legally possible under EU law. And either way, she'd be No Confidenced. Not an option.
    - Resignation is certainly a possibility but doesn't get anywhere closer to a solution.

    I think she has to prepare for the deal being voted down and to lay out *now* what that means - which is going back to Brussels to get a revision. In reality, the only revisions possible - to my mind - are to trade an even closer transitional relationship, with NI and GB on the same basis, for a proper (unilateral or time-limited) break clause. The Tory Ultras won't like it but it has to be explored before No Deal becomes inevitable.
    Tactically she would be clever to say that her move, if the deal is rejected, would be to Norway now. Puts the leavers on the spot now and could put Labour on the spot later.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    This must be Starmer's script. It's very good.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited November 2018
    This is very interesting. For once, Corbyn's audience isn't 10-second clips on Facebook. It's the opposite benches. The ERG will be agreeing with pretty much everything he says. (EDIT: oh, he's just cited the single market. Maybe not everything then...)
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    edited November 2018
    I accept he is reading out what someone has written for him, but this could be Corbyn's finest hour without a shadow of a doubt. The most forensic and statesmanlike he has ever been.

    Paradoxically, I thought it was a good statement from May too, in all the circumstances.
  • I wonder what they are in panic about? The bosses have resigned, put up your feet and stick the kettle on. No work to do today, but govt is busy collapsing.
    It's a The Smiths joke I think.

    The lyrics rather work too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMykYSQaG_c
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,299
    Between them the Tories have just destroyed whatever reputation they might still have for competence in government.
    Those manoeuvring for the leadership are probably fighting to take control of a corpse. And none of them will have Hague's consolation of a reputation for amusing speeches in the Commons.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Once the resignations die down Im still expecting her deal to narrowly pass, though maybe at the second attempt if she's allowed to return to Brussels. If she survives today she's pretty much bulletproof and I suspect she will.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,916
    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Alright Anna, you smartarse, who leads that to do what? Remain? Oh how convenient.
    @Kle4 I think we (I include you as a moderate) have to face reality, the vision of a sensible brexit died today I think. It's either remain or no deal. It's a shame because May's deal looked good to me.
    Remain is the way now. Getting there still not easy.
    Remain is probably the most likely outcome, but it doesn't resolve any of the issues that lead us to where we are, and we are more divided now than before.
  • IanB2 said:

    Tactically she would be clever to say that her move, if the deal is rejected, would be to Norway now. Puts the leavers on the spot now and could put Labour on the spot later.

    She has no more moves. Its game over. Someone else should stand up and say make me leader and its Norway.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177
    Jonathan said:

    Corbyn looking strong today. Hope he's ready.

    It's his time, he knows he's pm in all but name now, no way the Tories come back from this.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited November 2018

    And indeed Brexit. It seems inevitable that we will remain now

    Err... no. It is inevitable that we crash out with No Deal.

    No Deal is the default position. If we run out of time, or govts or referenda then we get No Deal.

    Brexit is still on for March 29th
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,690
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Corbyn shows he is perfectly competent at scoring in an open goal.

    Clearly you are not watching
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    That was a storming Corbyn performance
  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171
    edited November 2018
    What Tim Montgomerie and Chukka have said this morning is exactly right. The Brexit sold to the British people by the Leave campaign could never ever happen, the deal May has got is the only deal we will ever get.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    I wonder what they are in panic about? The bosses have resigned, put up your feet and stick the kettle on. No work to do today, but govt is busy collapsing.
    It's a The Smiths joke I think.

    The lyrics rather work too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMykYSQaG_c
    Panic at the Disco, surely?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177

    There was a narrow window for the Conservatives to rescue something from the disaster of Brexit by getting behind this deal. Tim Montgomerie, of all people, saw that. These resigning ministers have been unbelievably foolish.

    Turns out they actually believe no brexit is better than a bad brexit. I confess to being surprised.
  • Of the people at cabinet yesterday, Raab should at least have been more au fait with the contents of the deal than anybody else. If it was clear that the cabinet were going to support it, and he felt that he, in all conscience, couldn't, why didn't he do a Heseltine there and then, rather than apparently signing up to it and then going the next day (a question which could have been asked of Davis and Johnson after Chequers, come to that).

    Of course, his track record with his knowledge of the importance of Dover indicates that perhaps he isn't the sharpest knife in the box. Why he should therefore have jumped to the top of the betting for next Con leader just indicates that nobody's looking for a Churchill to get us out of this mess.

    As for McVey, pfft. What a loss to humankind, he said sarcastically.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220

    This is very interesting. For once, Corbyn's audience isn't 10-second clips on Facebook. It's the opposite benches. The ERG will be agreeing with pretty much everything he says. (EDIT: oh, he's just cited the single market. Maybe not everything then...)

    The Corbyn-ERG block, looks like November really has spawned a monster.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Good news on the resignations. Perhaps we can now have a Brexit secretary that knows where France is, and a Work Secretary who isn’t an congenital liar.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited November 2018
    So, to summarise:

    1. It's Chequers (+/-)
    2. It has been obvious since, er, Chequers that it would be Chequers.
    3. Anyone sensible on here has known this since, er, Chequers.
    4. Only morons and utter, utter Brexit twats could ever have been under the impression that it would or could be anything else.

    You know who you are.
  • So, if things fall apart, who leads the government of national unity?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    Xenon said:

    The deal that Theresa May and Olly Robbins have cooked up is what happens when you task vegans with making a meat pie.

    You're a leaver. You argued for leave.

    You own this, and you own the consequences.
    I'd accept that - if the current shit-show hadn't had Remainer ring-masters.

    Olly Robbins has done nothing in my name. Or in my cause.

    I blame Gove for where we are.
    What bullshit. This is what you voted for. It doesn't matter what flights of fancy fluttered through your fevered, deranged imagination: it was obvious that the two leave options could not be reconciled.

    And you're doing exactly what leavers were doing before the referendum: it isn't our fault; it's the EU's fault.

    There's always someone else for you to blame for your own fuckup.
    Utter bullshit. If this is what we'd voted for it would be getting lapped up by Leavers. Its patently obvious this is some meally mouthed bullshit cooked up by those who didn't believe in Brexit.

    May said 2 things that were true: no deal is better than a bad deal and in order to deliver Brexit you need to believe in Brexit. May and Robbins didn't believe in Brexit and have come up with a turd of a deal.
    " ... by those who didn't believe in Brexit. "

    Ah, yes Brexit as a faith. Brexit as a religion. Believe in Brexit, for those with the true faith will sit at the right hand of Farage.
    Belief in a policy, belief it was the right thing to do. Religions aren't the only things that require belief.

    I believe lower taxes improve economic growth, that's not a religion its an educated thought.
    Brexit is an educated thought ????

    Ha

    You should be on the stage. Brexit is a fucking disaster, and it was alwayts going to be a fucking disaster due to leave's stance during the referendum. There's nothing 'educated' about it, however many educated people fell pray to the religion.
    No. The disaster was signing up to a project that the British people didn't want to be part of and that is seemingly impossible to get out of.
    You should form a double-act.

    Which one of you wants to be Bart SImpson as the 'I didn't do it' kid?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtVteemLin4
  • IanB2 said:

    Tactically she would be clever to say that her move, if the deal is rejected, would be to Norway now. Puts the leavers on the spot now and could put Labour on the spot later.

    She has no more moves. Its game over. Someone else should stand up and say make me leader and its Norway.
    Strangely in her address just now she did say Norway was not an option for now.

    Not picked up so far
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177

    Pulpstar said:

    Thornberry is loving this.

    It's taken all the risk out of Labour's decision - I think they'll unaminously vote against the deal.
    And then what
    Referendum or GE. Or referendum then a GE since one is inevitable as the gov has lost its majority and cannot last as minority while so divided.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Corbyn shows he is perfectly competent at scoring in an open goal.

    Clearly you are not watching
    What?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    edited November 2018
    I feel a little sorry for Mrs May. A goldfish among sharks. She remains at heart a Remainer and tried to secure a deal the Remainers might accept. But Labour will vote against it, because of a visceral hatred of Tories. We'll end up in a no-deal Brexit and the two parties will blame each other.

    Yes, the deal could work if we could trust the good will of Europe, and therein lies the problem. We can't, but as a Remainer, Mrs May can't see that. "Oh, look, there's that nice Mr Shark, I must go over and ask about his hungry family."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177

    So, if things fall apart, who leads the government of national unity?

    Isn't TSE still between jobs?
  • Of the people at cabinet yesterday, Raab should at least have been more au fait with the contents of the deal than anybody else. If it was clear that the cabinet were going to support it, and he felt that he, in all conscience, couldn't, why didn't he do a Heseltine there and then, rather than apparently signing up to it and then going the next day (a question which could have been asked of Davis and Johnson after Chequers, come to that).

    Of course, his track record with his knowledge of the importance of Dover indicates that perhaps he isn't the sharpest knife in the box. Why he should therefore have jumped to the top of the betting for next Con leader just indicates that nobody's looking for a Churchill to get us out of this mess.

    As for McVey, pfft. What a loss to humankind, he said sarcastically.

    Because the whole thing's a game of chess. I believe their positions are heartfelt and principled. But not that heartfelt and principled that they'd risk their position in the future leadership jstling.
  • I accept he is reading out what someone has written for him, but this could be Corbyn's finest hour without a shadow of a doubt. The most forensic and statesmanlike he has ever been.

    Paradoxically, I thought it was a good statement from May too, in all the circumstances.

    She seems reasonably calm.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Corbyn shows he is perfectly competent at scoring in an open goal.

    Clearly you are not watching
    What? Everyone else is saying Corbyn did well there. Words I've never uttered in my life but Corbyn looks in this exchange like the one who should be Prime Minister.

    For the record he should not. But in this exchange he is the one on top.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited November 2018

    That was a storming Corbyn performance

    Cometh The hour - Cometh The Corbyn! :D
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Alright Anna, you smartarse, who leads that to do what? Remain? Oh how convenient.
    @Kle4 I think we (I include you as a moderate) have to face reality, the vision of a sensible brexit died today I think. It's either remain or no deal. It's a shame because May's deal looked good to me.
    Remain is the way now. Getting there still not easy.
    Remain is probably the most likely outcome, but it doesn't resolve any of the issues that lead us to where we are, and we are more divided now than before.
    There's no option that will heal divisions. Given that, best to just try to win
  • Love the idea of Brian Blessed for PM. Imagine having to negotiate with him...

    I'm 200 miles from Parliament. But would be able to him his statement to the house without it being broadcast
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    I wonder what they are in panic about? The bosses have resigned, put up your feet and stick the kettle on. No work to do today, but govt is busy collapsing.
    It's a The Smiths joke I think.

    The lyrics rather work too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMykYSQaG_c
    Hang the blessed T May?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    edited November 2018

    I accept he is reading out what someone has written for him, but this could be Corbyn's finest hour without a shadow of a doubt. The most forensic and statesmanlike he has ever been.

    Paradoxically, I thought it was a good statement from May too, in all the circumstances.

    She seems reasonably calm.
    I've heard that's fairly common in the condemned when they gaze up at the noose.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    IanB2 said:

    Tactically she would be clever to say that her move, if the deal is rejected, would be to Norway now. Puts the leavers on the spot now and could put Labour on the spot later.

    She has no more moves. Its game over. Someone else should stand up and say make me leader and its Norway.
    Strangely in her address just now she did say Norway was not an option for now.

    Not picked up so far
    No ‘Norway for now’ is a slogan, it wasn’t anything more than that.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    I accept he is reading out what someone has written for him, but this could be Corbyn's finest hour without a shadow of a doubt. The most forensic and statesmanlike he has ever been.

    Paradoxically, I thought it was a good statement from May too, in all the circumstances.

    She seems reasonably calm.
    Maybot

    It's a slightly disturbing feature about her. She ought to be more ruffled if she's a normal human being.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177
    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Alright Anna, you smartarse, who leads that to do what? Remain? Oh how convenient.
    @Kle4 I think we (I include you as a moderate) have to face reality, the vision of a sensible brexit died today I think. It's either remain or no deal. It's a shame because May's deal looked good to me.
    Remain is the way now. Getting there still not easy.
    Remain is probably the most likely outcome, but it doesn't resolve any of the issues that lead us to where we are, and we are more divided now than before.
    That's true but it is now the least worst option.
  • kle4 said:

    There was a narrow window for the Conservatives to rescue something from the disaster of Brexit by getting behind this deal. Tim Montgomerie, of all people, saw that. These resigning ministers have been unbelievably foolish.

    Turns out they actually believe no brexit is better than a bad brexit. I confess to being surprised.
    Brexit is collapsing on its internal contradictions. Leavers expended all their energy in working out what they were against without ever trying to work out what they were for.
  • Breaking. Looks like Rory is finally going to make Cabinet.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,690

    That was a storming Corbyn performance

    Dont tell Ishmaelz
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728

    So, if things fall apart, who leads the government of national unity?

    Mike Smithson.

    Although he'd probably have to lay off the political gambling for a bit, mind. ;)
  • Ken Clarke is a soothing voice
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Just to re-emphasize one point.

    May's Deal is dead, but we are still Brexiting. Brexit is still in progress. Come 29th March, out we go with no deal.

    The hardcore Brexiteers will still get their hard Brexit. All they have to do is keep the chaos going for a few more months.

  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    T-5 till the next Cab Scab?

  • There was a narrow window for the Conservatives to rescue something from the disaster of Brexit by getting behind this deal. Tim Montgomerie, of all people, saw that. These resigning ministers have been unbelievably foolish.

    They must believe that, somehow, for someone, a no-deal Brexit will be better than any compromise with the EU.

    It's a recklessness rarely seen. Around what standard will opponents to this recklessness rally? Neither May nor Corbyn are convincing. Perhaps the recklessness will carry the day.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    And indeed Brexit. It seems inevitable that we will remain now

    Err... no. It is inevitable that we crash out with No Deal.

    No Deal is the default position. If we run out of time, or govts or referenda then we get No Deal.

    Brexit is still on for March 29th
    Exactly. And with a Corbyn government. An utter disaster for the country.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    edited November 2018
    Mortimer said:

    IanB2 said:

    Tactically she would be clever to say that her move, if the deal is rejected, would be to Norway now. Puts the leavers on the spot now and could put Labour on the spot later.

    She has no more moves. Its game over. Someone else should stand up and say make me leader and its Norway.
    Strangely in her address just now she did say Norway was not an option for now.

    Not picked up so far
    No ‘Norway for now’ is a slogan, it wasn’t anything more than that.
    I've banged on all along that Norway was impossible. I advocated, and essentially we've got Turkey++, which again was the only viable deal that was ever going to happen (Given NI) - getting the whole of the UK into the customs backstop territory was actually a bit of a coup.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited November 2018

    So, if things fall apart, who leads the government of national unity?

    A government of unity would involve Jezza joining Tories. Can't see that happening.

    General election and Corbyn as PM is my best guess but who knows?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177

    IanB2 said:

    Tactically she would be clever to say that her move, if the deal is rejected, would be to Norway now. Puts the leavers on the spot now and could put Labour on the spot later.

    She has no more moves. Its game over. Someone else should stand up and say make me leader and its Norway.
    Strangely in her address just now she did say Norway was not an option for now.

    Not picked up so far
    Because what she says no longer matters.
  • kle4 said:

    So, if things fall apart, who leads the government of national unity?

    Isn't TSE still between jobs?
    Gardening leave until May 2019.

    Am specifically enjoined from taking gainful employment until then.

    I suppose I could be PM without a salary.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    kle4 said:

    So, if things fall apart, who leads the government of national unity?

    Isn't TSE still between jobs?
    Gardening leave until May 2019.

    Am specifically enjoined from taking gainful employment until then.

    I suppose I could be PM without a salary.
    Be Brexit secretrary. That seems to be about the least gainful occupation mankind has ever devised.
  • CD13 said:

    I feel a little sorry for Mrs May. A goldfish among sharks. She remains at heart a Remainer and tried to secure a deal the Remainers might accept. But Labour will vote against it, because of a visceral hatred of Tories. We'll end up in a no-deal Brexit and the two parties will blame each other.

    Yes, the deal could work if we could trust the good will of Europe, and therein lies the problem. We can't, but as a Remainer, Mrs May can't see that. "Oh, look, there's that nice Mr Shark, I must go over and ask about his hungry family."

    So, it all fails because we 'can't trust Europe'?
    Sorry mate, you're rationalising.
  • I accept he is reading out what someone has written for him, but this could be Corbyn's finest hour without a shadow of a doubt. The most forensic and statesmanlike he has ever been.

    Paradoxically, I thought it was a good statement from May too, in all the circumstances.

    She seems reasonably calm.
    I've heard that's fairly common in people when they gaze up at the noose.
    Can we keep away from sentiments expressed in your last sentence.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    edited November 2018
    I wonder what Barnier and Blair are thinking at this moment? Yesterday they were smugly thinking the Establishment had hoodwinked the British voters.... Now? Not so much maybe......
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Tactically she would be clever to say that her move, if the deal is rejected, would be to Norway now. Puts the leavers on the spot now and could put Labour on the spot later.

    She has no more moves. Its game over. Someone else should stand up and say make me leader and its Norway.
    Strangely in her address just now she did say Norway was not an option for now.

    Not picked up so far
    Because what she says no longer matters.
    No, because "Norway for now" is the informal title of the option. The "for now" wasn't hers.
  • XenonXenon Posts: 471

    Xenon said:

    The deal that Theresa May and Olly Robbins have cooked up is what happens when you task vegans with making a meat pie.

    You're a leaver. You argued for leave.

    You own this, and you own the consequences.
    I'd accept that - if the current shit-show hadn't had Remainer ring-masters.

    Olly Robbins has done nothing in my name. Or in my cause.

    I blame Gove for where we are.
    What bullshit. This is what you voted for. It doesn't matter what flights of fancy fluttered through your fevered, deranged imagination: it was obvious that the two leave options could not be reconciled.

    And you're doing exactly what leavers were doing before the referendum: it isn't our fault; it's the EU's fault.

    There's always someone else for you to blame for your own fuckup.
    Utter bullshit. If this is what we'd voted for it would be getting lapped up by Leavers. Its patently obvious this is some meally mouthed bullshit cooked up by those who didn't believe in Brexit.

    May said 2 things that were true: no deal is better than a bad deal and in order to deliver Brexit you need to believe in Brexit. May and Robbins didn't believe in Brexit and have come up with a turd of a deal.
    " ... by those who didn't believe in Brexit. "

    Ah, yes Brexit as a faith. Brexit as a religion. Believe in Brexit, for those with the true faith will sit at the right hand of Farage.
    Belief in a policy, belief it was the right thing to do. Religions aren't the only things that require belief.

    I believe lower taxes improve economic growth, that's not a religion its an educated thought.
    Brexit is an educated thought ????

    Ha

    You should be on the stage. Brexit is a fucking disaster, and it was alwayts going to be a fucking disaster due to leave's stance during the referendum. There's nothing 'educated' about it, however many educated people fell pray to the religion.
    No. The disaster was signing up to a project that the British people didn't want to be part of and that is seemingly impossible to get out of.
    You should form a double-act.

    Which one of you wants to be Bart SImpson as the 'I didn't do it' kid?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtVteemLin4
    What are you talking about?
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Alright Anna, you smartarse, who leads that to do what? Remain? Oh how convenient.
    @Kle4 I think we (I include you as a moderate) have to face reality, the vision of a sensible brexit died today I think. It's either remain or no deal. It's a shame because May's deal looked good to me.
    Remain is the way now. Getting there still not easy.
    Remain is probably the most likely outcome, but it doesn't resolve any of the issues that lead us to where we are, and we are more divided now than before.
    That's true but it is now the least worst option.
    Remain is arguably the most chaotic option, but we all know its unlikely
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    I cannot tell you how glad I am that I have already exchanged on my flat sale now.

    Not yet sold but Scotland so I am intensly relaxed as offer accepted.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177

    kle4 said:

    There was a narrow window for the Conservatives to rescue something from the disaster of Brexit by getting behind this deal. Tim Montgomerie, of all people, saw that. These resigning ministers have been unbelievably foolish.

    Turns out they actually believe no brexit is better than a bad brexit. I confess to being surprised.
    Brexit is collapsing on its internal contradictions. Leavers expended all their energy in working out what they were against without ever trying to work out what they were for.
    I had rather hoped at crunch time enough could accept a level of compromise, but how wrong I was. What a right wally I have been.
  • who says that a deal will not be done this time between the final two candidates?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    Just to re-emphasize one point.

    May's Deal is dead, but we are still Brexiting. Brexit is still in progress. Come 29th March, out we go with no deal.

    The hardcore Brexiteers will still get their hard Brexit. All they have to do is keep the chaos going for a few more months.

    That's not actually inevitable, is it? There's a mechanism by which we can extend the exit in order to obtain the best negotiation.
  • I wonder what Barnier and Blair are thinking at this moment? Yesterday they were smugly thinking the Establishment had hoodwinked the British voters.... Now? Not so much maybe......

    Blair didn't want May's deal.
  • Love the idea of Brian Blessed for PM. Imagine having to negotiate with him...

    I'm 200 miles from Parliament. But would be able to him his statement to the house without it being broadcast

    I can't help but imagine this as part of a Dead Ringers piece featuring the "National Treasures".
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Alistair said:

    I cannot tell you how glad I am that I have already exchanged on my flat sale now.

    Not yet sold but Scotland so I am intensly relaxed as offer accepted.
    Meeks was selling in the big smoke though, I think that's where immediate fallout from no deal hits hardest.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    kle4 said:

    There was a narrow window for the Conservatives to rescue something from the disaster of Brexit by getting behind this deal. Tim Montgomerie, of all people, saw that. These resigning ministers have been unbelievably foolish.

    Turns out they actually believe no brexit is better than a bad brexit. I confess to being surprised.
    Brexit is collapsing on its internal contradictions. Leavers expended all their energy in working out what they were against without ever trying to work out what they were for.
    Basically that's it. They spent their life railing against something, expecting to fail and, deep down, quite possibly wanting to fail lest success denied them an everlasting fix. So why do any real thinking or planning?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    That was a storming Corbyn performance

    Dont tell Ishmaelz
    Perhaps you misread "competent" for "incompetent" in my post? If metaphors are too difficult for you, what I was saying was that Corbyn had been given an easy job to do, and was doing it well.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    who says that a deal will not be done this time between the final two candidates?
    Or that only one name will emerge and be elected unopposed?

    The obvious choice for a caretaker (from a Tory perspective) is David Davis.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    I wonder what Barnier and Blair are thinking at this moment? Yesterday they were smugly thinking the Establishment had hoodwinked the British voters.... Now? Not so much maybe......

    Blair wants the deal to fail.

    This idea that just because Leavers hate the deal, Remainers must love it is very weird, MM. I think the sooner you disabuse yourself of it the sooner you'll start understanding what's actually motivating the various actors here.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Blackford is hopeless, though. We lost Charlie Kennedy for this.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    Nearly 11:00 Bets on next resignation?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    Settle for nothing less than PM, Rory.....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    who says that a deal will not be done this time between the final two candidates?
    Certainly the argument for a appointment (possibly a caretaker?) and avoiding an election is stronger now than last time.
  • Just to re-emphasize one point.

    May's Deal is dead, but we are still Brexiting. Brexit is still in progress. Come 29th March, out we go with no deal.

    The hardcore Brexiteers will still get their hard Brexit. All they have to do is keep the chaos going for a few more months.

    That's not actually inevitable, is it? There's a mechanism by which we can extend the exit in order to obtain the best negotiation.
    It's the status quo until someone makes a change. Who can now command a majority of the House? No-one, and so the likelihood of changing the status quo is slim.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,177
    Brom said:

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Alright Anna, you smartarse, who leads that to do what? Remain? Oh how convenient.
    @Kle4 I think we (I include you as a moderate) have to face reality, the vision of a sensible brexit died today I think. It's either remain or no deal. It's a shame because May's deal looked good to me.
    Remain is the way now. Getting there still not easy.
    Remain is probably the most likely outcome, but it doesn't resolve any of the issues that lead us to where we are, and we are more divided now than before.
    That's true but it is now the least worst option.
    Remain is arguably the most chaotic option, but we all know its unlikely
    Was. Leavers won't accept a deal. Getting a new deal is unlikely. Parliament seems intent on avoiding no deal. Remain emerges as an option.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    11AM - Do we get another resignation? :D
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Cyclefree said:

    And indeed Brexit. It seems inevitable that we will remain now

    Err... no. It is inevitable that we crash out with No Deal.

    No Deal is the default position. If we run out of time, or govts or referenda then we get No Deal.

    Brexit is still on for March 29th
    Exactly. And with a Corbyn government. An utter disaster for the country.
    Time to start buying dry goods..... has your Cumbrian hideaway got a large pantry? Fish will be a good addition to your diet and all the cockles you can eat :)
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    I wonder what Barnier and Blair are thinking at this moment? Yesterday they were smugly thinking the Establishment had hoodwinked the British voters.... Now? Not so much maybe......

    Blair wants the deal to fail.

    This idea that just because Leavers hate the deal, Remainers must love it is very weird, MM. I think the sooner you disabuse yourself of it the sooner you'll start understanding what's actually motivating the various actors here.
    Blair is pushing the country towards no deal
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    I cannot tell you how glad I am that I have already exchanged on my flat sale now.

    Not yet sold but Scotland so I am intensly relaxed as offer accepted.
    Meeks was selling in the big smoke though, I think that's where immediate fallout from no deal hits hardest.
    Yes, so much for "it's leavers who will suffer the most".
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    Just to re-emphasize one point.

    May's Deal is dead, but we are still Brexiting. Brexit is still in progress. Come 29th March, out we go with no deal.

    The hardcore Brexiteers will still get their hard Brexit. All they have to do is keep the chaos going for a few more months.

    That's not actually inevitable, is it? There's a mechanism by which we can extend the exit in order to obtain the best negotiation.
    It's the status quo until someone makes a change. Who can now command a majority of the House? No-one, and so the likelihood of changing the status quo is slim.
    I reckon a new leader would win HUGE parliamentary backing for a 12 month delay in order to sort this out.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    There was a narrow window for the Conservatives to rescue something from the disaster of Brexit by getting behind this deal. Tim Montgomerie, of all people, saw that. These resigning ministers have been unbelievably foolish.

    Turns out they actually believe no brexit is better than a bad brexit. I confess to being surprised.
    Brexit is collapsing on its internal contradictions. Leavers expended all their energy in working out what they were against without ever trying to work out what they were for.
    I had rather hoped at crunch time enough could accept a level of compromise, but how wrong I was. What a right wally I have been.
    That’s because you are sensible and reasonable. You’d be a terrible politician!

    :wink:
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    Xenon said:


    You should form a double-act.

    Which one of you wants to be Bart SImpson as the 'I didn't do it' kid?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtVteemLin4

    What are you talking about?
    The Brexiter line: it's always some else's fault. It's the EU's fault. It's May's fault. It's not my fault.

    But it is. Anyone who voted for leave owns this, and owns the consequences.
This discussion has been closed.