Gove is going to have to come out of hiding at some point. He can't stay in a quantum superposition of Brexit secretary/Not brexit secretary/resigned/unresigned forever.
That was May's strategy through the EU Ref and it managed to bag her the PM position.
I think that must be the right thing to do. It's high-risk, for all the reasons we've explored, and highly unsatisfactory on a number of counts, but since there is no chance at all of the EU agreeing a better deal than the PM has managed to achieve, and since leaving without a deal would be absolutely catastrophic, the only possible way out if parliament won't accept the deal is to reverse the People's Vote, and the only possible way of doing that with sufficient democratic cover would be to re-run it. Of course, it would be a 50-50 shot at best, but that's better than a 100% chance of disaster. (And both are worse than a near-100% chance of a decent result, which parliament seem set to reject. Hey-ho)
b) allow UK citizens living overseas to vote postally.
We already can, but only for the first fifteen years that we're abroad. I honestly think that's a fair compromise. If you're away that long you're probably not coming back, unless to retire.
Hang on, I'm losing track: Has Penny Mordaunt resigned and been completely forgotten about in the general brouhaha, or is she still in Cabinet?
She's not made it onto the Guardian liveblog as resigned, and they have a list with all the PPS resignations.
Some of these PPS's have real jobs.
Yes, my point was that the Guardian's desire for completeness included them, indeed it includes a Downing Street official who has also resigned, even though politically there is a tendency to overlook them.
My point was I wasn't quite so sure about Penny Mordaunt who always sounds like a character out of Harry Potter to me, probably Slytherin.
Blaming Labour for the current mess may make some Tories feel better about themselves but they would probably be better off confronting reality.
Same can be said for you and Corbyn's anti-Semitism. Embrace the reality.
I know it can be confusing for Islamophobes such as yourself but Corbyn continuing Ed's policies opposing the occupation of Palestine isn't anti semitism. Embrace the reality
LOL. I am not an Islamaphobe. Far from. I stand by my record on here of calling out Islamaphobia and anti-Semitism, and it says nothing positive about you that you descend to that level.
But for the record, Corbyn's doing much more than than you say. And people should stop hiding their anti-Semitism behind anti-Zionism.
I should ask how bonfire night went for you. Did you mix up your Katyusha and sparklers?
I think your just consistent in being an angry man, Islamophobes are often angry people.
Angry, nah. Amused. I'm quite enjoying today.
I'm intrigued why you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe. As far as I can tell, it's because I say that both the Palestinians and Israelis have to make moves to peace, and that my calls for he Palestinian groups to stop launching rockets (or in your words, fireworks) are a sign of a feverish Islamaphobe.
Despite the fact I say the Israelis have more moves to make as well.
Is that it, or have I committed some other sin?
I think you should take the advice of someone else earlier and go for a walk, cool off.
Gove is going to have to come out of hiding at some point. He can't stay in a quantum superposition of Brexit secretary/Not brexit secretary/resigned/unresigned forever.
That was May's strategy through the EU Ref and it managed to bag her the PM position.
Sky: they are only finding third raters from the Gov to support Theresa. Alan Duncan is their top find!
Supporting this Deal is going to be CV strychnine for any of her wannabe successors. *Nobody* wants to touch it.
I understand Mr Gove is having his wisdom teeth fixed..
Javid and Hunt are going way down in my estimation. If they are too cowardly to go out and fight hard for this deal even though they back it, or too cowardly to resign if they do not back it, then they clearly lack any spine whatsoever.
Well yes, but then Labour would have lost a bunch of seats to the tories at the next election.
Corbyn may be stupid but having seen what happened to SLab on the whole "campaign with the Tories thingy" they weren't going to do that again.
Even if you accept that, Corbyn's campaigning during the referendum was so far under cover than he might as well have brought his own duvet.
Even when he did emerge from small meetings into the light of the media, his nominal support for Remain was so caveated as to render it counterproductive. Likewise, his refusal to engage with the Labour Remain, while also refusing to give it a free hand, meant that it was stymied from doing any real work.
It wasn't that Corbyn wouldn't just campaign with the Tories on the EURef1; he effectively prevented Labour from campaigning at all.
Sky: they are only finding third raters from the Gov to support Theresa. Alan Duncan is their top find!
Supporting this Deal is going to be CV strychnine for any of her wannabe successors. *Nobody* wants to touch it.
I understand Mr Gove is having his wisdom teeth fixed..
Javid and Hunt are going way down in my estimation. If they are too cowardly to go out and fight hard for this deal even though they back it, or too cowardly to resign if they do not back it, then they clearly lack any spine whatsoever.
kle I think you are being a bit harsh, they are probably meeting colleagues now rather than briefing the cameras
Blaming Labour for the current mess may make some Tories feel better about themselves but they would probably be better off confronting reality.
Same can be said for you and Corbyn's anti-Semitism. Embrace the reality.
I know it can be confusing for Islamophobes such as yourself but Corbyn continuing Ed's policies opposing the occupation of Palestine isn't anti semitism. Embrace the reality
LOL. I am not an Islamaphobe. Far from. I stand by my record on here of calling out Islamaphobia and anti-Semitism, and it says nothing positive about you that you descend to that level.
But for the record, Corbyn's doing much more than than you say. And people should stop hiding their anti-Semitism behind anti-Zionism.
I should ask how bonfire night went for you. Did you mix up your Katyusha and sparklers?
I think your just consistent in being an angry man, Islamophobes are often angry people.
Angry, nah. Amused. I'm quite enjoying today.
I'm intrigued why you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe. As far as I can tell, it's because I say that both the Palestinians and Israelis have to make moves to peace, and that my calls for he Palestinian groups to stop launching rockets (or in your words, fireworks) are a sign of a feverish Islamaphobe.
Despite the fact I say the Israelis have more moves to make as well.
Is that it, or have I committed some other sin?
I think you should take the advice of someone else earlier and go for a walk, cool off.
I don't need to cool off, thanks. Please answer the question: why do you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe, which is quite an accusation to make.
I suggest you either say why you think it's the case, or apologise.
Gove is going to have to come out of hiding at some point. He can't stay in a quantum superposition of Brexit secretary/Not brexit secretary/resigned/unresigned forever.
I've still not seen an answer as to why we need Brexit secretary. They seem to claim they never see anything until it is too late anyway, so just have the department report directly to the PM.
It's one less Cabinet Minister to inevitably resign.
He's probably waiting to see if the 47.99 letters tick over today or tomorrow.
I think that must be the right thing to do. It's high-risk, for all the reasons we've explored, and highly unsatisfactory on a number of counts, but since there is no chance at all of the EU agreeing a better deal than the PM has managed to achieve, and since leaving without a deal would be absolutely catastrophic, the only possible way out is to reverse the People's Vote, and the only possible way of doing that with sufficient democratic cover would be to re-run it. Of course, it would be a 50-50 shot at best, but that's better than a 100% chance of disaster.
has anyone calling for a second referendum any idea what the question might be ?
I think the people vote would want the following question
In light of the deal struck by Theresa May would you like to
Blaming Labour for the current mess may make some Tories feel better about themselves but they would probably be better off confronting reality.
Same can be said for you and Corbyn's anti-Semitism. Embrace the reality.
I know it can be confusing for Islamophobes such as yourself but Corbyn continuing Ed's policies opposing the occupation of Palestine isn't anti semitism. Embrace the reality
LOL. I am not an Islamaphobe. Far from. I stand by my record on here of calling out Islamaphobia and anti-Semitism, and it says nothing positive about you that you descend to that level.
But for the record, Corbyn's doing much more than than you say. And people should stop hiding their anti-Semitism behind anti-Zionism.
I should ask how bonfire night went for you. Did you mix up your Katyusha and sparklers?
I think your just consistent in being an angry man, Islamophobes are often angry people.
Angry, nah. Amused. I'm quite enjoying today.
I'm intrigued why you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe. As far as I can tell, it's because I say that both the Palestinians and Israelis have to make moves to peace, and that my calls for he Palestinian groups to stop launching rockets (or in your words, fireworks) are a sign of a feverish Islamaphobe.
Despite the fact I say the Israelis have more moves to make as well.
Is that it, or have I committed some other sin?
I think you should take the advice of someone else earlier and go for a walk, cool off.
I don't need to cool off, thanks. Please answer the question: why do you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe, which is quite an accusation to make.
I suggest you either say why you think it's the case, or apologise.
I wouldn't hold your breath waiting... you'll probably drop your prejudiced views before I would even consider apologising for calling you out on them.
Blaming Labour for the current mess may make some Tories feel better about themselves but they would probably be better off confronting reality.
Same can be said for you and Corbyn's anti-Semitism. Embrace the reality.
I know it can be confusing for Islamophobes such as yourself but Corbyn continuing Ed's policies opposing the occupation of Palestine isn't anti semitism. Embrace the reality
LOL. I am not an Islamaphobe. Far from. I stand by my record on here of calling out Islamaphobia and anti-Semitism, and it says nothing positive about you that you descend to that level.
But for the record, Corbyn's doing much more than than you say. And people should stop hiding their anti-Semitism behind anti-Zionism.
I should ask how bonfire night went for you. Did you mix up your Katyusha and sparklers?
I think your just consistent in being an angry man, Islamophobes are often angry people.
Angry, nah. Amused. I'm quite enjoying today.
I'm intrigued why you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe. As far as I can tell, it's because I say that both the Palestinians and Israelis have to make moves to peace, and that my calls for he Palestinian groups to stop launching rockets (or in your words, fireworks) are a sign of a feverish Islamaphobe.
Despite the fact I say the Israelis have more moves to make as well.
Is that it, or have I committed some other sin?
I think you should take the advice of someone else earlier and go for a walk, cool off.
I don't need to cool off, thanks. Please answer the question: why do you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe, which is quite an accusation to make.
I suggest you either say why you think it's the case, or apologise.
I wouldn't hold your breath waiting... you'll probably drop your prejudiced views before I would even consider apologising for calling you out on them.
Blaming Labour for the current mess may make some Tories feel better about themselves but they would probably be better off confronting reality.
Same can be said for you and Corbyn's anti-Semitism. Embrace the reality.
I know it can be confusing for Islamophobes such as yourself but Corbyn continuing Ed's policies opposing the occupation of Palestine isn't anti semitism. Embrace the reality
LOL. I am not an Islamaphobe. Far from. I stand by my record on here of calling out Islamaphobia and anti-Semitism, and it says nothing positive about you that you descend to that level.
But for the record, Corbyn's doing much more than than you say. And people should stop hiding their anti-Semitism behind anti-Zionism.
I should ask how bonfire night went for you. Did you mix up your Katyusha and sparklers?
I think your just consistent in being an angry man, Islamophobes are often angry people.
Angry, nah. Amused. I'm quite enjoying today.
I'm intrigued why you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe. As far as I can tell, it's because I say that both the Palestinians and Israelis have to make moves to peace, and that my calls for he Palestinian groups to stop launching rockets (or in your words, fireworks) are a sign of a feverish Islamaphobe.
Despite the fact I say the Israelis have more moves to make as well.
Is that it, or have I committed some other sin?
I think you should take the advice of someone else earlier and go for a walk, cool off.
I don't need to cool off, thanks. Please answer the question: why do you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe, which is quite an accusation to make.
I suggest you either say why you think it's the case, or apologise.
I wouldn't hold your breath waiting... you'll probably drop your prejudiced views before I would even consider apologising for calling you out on them.
What prejudiced views do you think I have?
I called you an Islamophobe earlier, I'd like to think you aren't quite as stupid as you pretend to be so I will let you figure it out from there.
Blaming Labour for the current mess may make some Tories feel better about themselves but they would probably be better off confronting reality.
Same can be said for you and Corbyn's anti-Semitism. Embrace the reality.
I know it can be confusing for Islamophobes such as yourself but Corbyn continuing Ed's policies opposing the occupation of Palestine isn't anti semitism. Embrace the reality
LOL. I am not an Islamaphobe. Far from. I stand by my record on here of calling out Islamaphobia and anti-Semitism, and it says nothing positive about you that you descend to that level.
But for the record, Corbyn's doing much more than than you say. And people should stop hiding their anti-Semitism behind anti-Zionism.
I should ask how bonfire night went for you. Did you mix up your Katyusha and sparklers?
I think your just consistent in being an angry man, Islamophobes are often angry people.
Angry, nah. Amused. I'm quite enjoying today.
I'm intrigued why you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe. As far as I can tell, it's because I say that both the Palestinians and Israelis have to make moves to peace, and that my calls for he Palestinian groups to stop launching rockets (or in your words, fireworks) are a sign of a feverish Islamaphobe.
Despite the fact I say the Israelis have more moves to make as well.
Is that it, or have I committed some other sin?
I think you should take the advice of someone else earlier and go for a walk, cool off.
I don't need to cool off, thanks. Please answer the question: why do you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe, which is quite an accusation to make.
I suggest you either say why you think it's the case, or apologise.
I wouldn't hold your breath waiting... you'll probably drop your prejudiced views before I would even consider apologising for calling you out on them.
What prejudiced views do you think I have?
I called you an Islamophobe earlier, I'd like to think you aren't quite as stupid as you pretend to be so I will let you figure it out from there.
So you don't have any reason to call me an Islamaphobe, and it's just an accusation you throw about. Cool.
LOL. I am not an Islamaphobe. Far from. I stand by my record on here of calling out Islamaphobia and anti-Semitism, and it says nothing positive about you that you descend to that level.
But for the record, Corbyn's doing much more than than you say. And people should stop hiding their anti-Semitism behind anti-Zionism.
I should ask how bonfire night went for you. Did you mix up your Katyusha and sparklers?
I think your just consistent in being an angry man, Islamophobes are often angry people.
Angry, nah. Amused. I'm quite enjoying today.
I'm intrigued why you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe. As far as I can tell, it's because I say that both the Palestinians and Israelis have to make moves to peace, and that my calls for he Palestinian groups to stop launching rockets (or in your words, fireworks) are a sign of a feverish Islamaphobe.
Despite the fact I say the Israelis have more moves to make as well.
Is that it, or have I committed some other sin?
I think you should take the advice of someone else earlier and go for a walk, cool off.
I don't need to cool off, thanks. Please answer the question: why do you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe, which is quite an accusation to make.
I suggest you either say why you think it's the case, or apologise.
I wouldn't hold your breath waiting... you'll probably drop your prejudiced views before I would even consider apologising for calling you out on them.
What prejudiced views do you think I have?
I called you an Islamophobe earlier, I'd like to think you aren't quite as stupid as you pretend to be so I will let you figure it out from there.
So you don't have any reason to call me an Islamaphobe, and it's just an accusation you throw about. Cool.
*Islamophobe.
I also said you aren't quite as stupid as you pretend to be so it was a genuine assessment rather than needless insult.
LOL. I am not an Islamaphobe. Far from. I stand by my record on here of calling out Islamaphobia and anti-Semitism, and it says nothing positive about you that you descend to that level.
But for the record, Corbyn's doing much more than than you say. And people should stop hiding their anti-Semitism behind anti-Zionism.
I should ask how bonfire night went for you. Did you mix up your Katyusha and sparklers?
I think your just consistent in being an angry man, Islamophobes are often angry people.
Angry, nah. Amused. I'm quite enjoying today.
I'm intrigued why you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe. As far as I can tell, it's because I say that both the Palestinians and Israelis have to make moves to peace, and that my calls for he Palestinian groups to stop launching rockets (or in your words, fireworks) are a sign of a feverish Islamaphobe.
Despite the fact I say the Israelis have more moves to make as well.
Is that it, or have I committed some other sin?
I think you should take the advice of someone else earlier and go for a walk, cool off.
I don't need to cool off, thanks. Please answer the question: why do you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe, which is quite an accusation to make.
I suggest you either say why you think it's the case, or apologise.
I wouldn't hold your breath waiting... you'll probably drop your prejudiced views before I would even consider apologising for calling you out on them.
What prejudiced views do you think I have?
I called you an Islamophobe earlier, I'd like to think you aren't quite as stupid as you pretend to be so I will let you figure it out from there.
So you don't have any reason to call me an Islamaphobe, and it's just an accusation you throw about. Cool.
*Islamophobe.
I also said you aren't quite as stupid as you pretend to be so it was a genuine assessment rather than needless insult.
Look, you're being stupid now. Just say why you think that's the case.
I think your just consistent in being an angry man, Islamophobes are often angry people.
Angry, nah. Amused. I'm quite enjoying today.
I'm intrigued why you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe. As far as I can tell, it's because I say that both the Palestinians and Israelis have to make moves to peace, and that my calls for he Palestinian groups to stop launching rockets (or in your words, fireworks) are a sign of a feverish Islamaphobe.
Despite the fact I say the Israelis have more moves to make as well.
Is that it, or have I committed some other sin?
I think you should take the advice of someone else earlier and go for a walk, cool off.
I don't need to cool off, thanks. Please answer the question: why do you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe, which is quite an accusation to make.
I suggest you either say why you think it's the case, or apologise.
I wouldn't hold your breath waiting... you'll probably drop your prejudiced views before I would even consider apologising for calling you out on them.
What prejudiced views do you think I have?
I called you an Islamophobe earlier, I'd like to think you aren't quite as stupid as you pretend to be so I will let you figure it out from there.
So you don't have any reason to call me an Islamaphobe, and it's just an accusation you throw about. Cool.
*Islamophobe.
I also said you aren't quite as stupid as you pretend to be so it was a genuine assessment rather than needless insult.
Look, you're being stupid now. Just say why you think that's the case.
I don't respond to your posts (the ones not specifically directed at me) anymore because I think you are an angry man, I apologise for rising to the bait of you responding to me, I shall try to ignore it in future.
I think your just consistent in being an angry man, Islamophobes are often angry people.
Angry, nah. Amused. I'm quite enjoying today.
I'm intrigued why you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe. As far as I can tell, it's because I say that both the Palestinians and Israelis have to make moves to peace, and that my calls for he Palestinian groups to stop launching rockets (or in your words, fireworks) are a sign of a feverish Islamaphobe.
Despite the fact I say the Israelis have more moves to make as well.
Is that it, or have I committed some other sin?
I think you should take the advice of someone else earlier and go for a walk, cool off.
I don't need to cool off, thanks. Please answer the question: why do you keep on calling me an Islamaphobe, which is quite an accusation to make.
I suggest you either say why you think it's the case, or apologise.
I wouldn't hold your breath waiting... you'll probably drop your prejudiced views before I would even consider apologising for calling you out on them.
What prejudiced views do you think I have?
I called you an Islamophobe earlier, I'd like to think you aren't quite as stupid as you pretend to be so I will let you figure it out from there.
So you don't have any reason to call me an Islamaphobe, and it's just an accusation you throw about. Cool.
*Islamophobe.
I also said you aren't quite as stupid as you pretend to be so it was a genuine assessment rather than needless insult.
Look, you're being stupid now. Just say why you think that's the case.
I don't respond to your posts (the ones not specifically directed at me) anymore because I think you are an angry man, I apologise for rising to the bait of you responding to me, I shall try to ignore it in future.
You're projecting.
And that's not an apology. It's quite simple: just say: "Josias Jessop, I am sorry for baselessly accusing you of being an Islamaphobe."
Comments
one rebel down, 29 (at least) to go
NEW THREAD
Even when he did emerge from small meetings into the light of the media, his nominal support for Remain was so caveated as to render it counterproductive. Likewise, his refusal to engage with the Labour Remain, while also refusing to give it a free hand, meant that it was stymied from doing any real work.
It wasn't that Corbyn wouldn't just campaign with the Tories on the EURef1; he effectively prevented Labour from campaigning at all.
I suggest you either say why you think it's the case, or apologise.
In light of the deal struck by Theresa May would you like to
(A) remain in the EU
https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1063079214507794433
1) The Government (whoever that is) to carry on pursuing Brexit at any and all costs so it stays in the news for the next 20 years
2) Pretend the vote never happened and have a nice cup of tea instead
I also said you aren't quite as stupid as you pretend to be so it was a genuine assessment rather than needless insult.
Do you want
1) The govt to leave, never speak about the EU again and spend the £39Bn .
2) 20 more years of talking about Brexit.
Don't think it would be that close..
And that's not an apology. It's quite simple: just say: "Josias Jessop, I am sorry for baselessly accusing you of being an Islamaphobe."