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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On the day of the C4/Sky News May/Corbyn event the Mail’s Quen

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  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,255
    edited May 2017
    I thought May was fine, and stood up to Paxman well.

    Her answer on Brexit being the right decision was slightly evasive, but she finished strongly on "no deal" and "difficult woman" that went down well.

    Of course, that equivocation might have not been entirely accidental: something for both Remainers and Leavers to take away from her answer on Brexit there.

    The worse bit was the blowhard who collapses at the first sign of gunfire, but there's not much May could do about responding to that.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,783
    edited May 2017
    [duplicate]
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,651

    Pulpstar said:

    4 rounds to Jez, 3 to May. Knockout stoppage victory for May by Falklands in round 8.

    Oh dear what does Mrs Pulpstar say

    Jezza won every round
    Watching "Doctor in the House" :p
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,730
    It looks like a score draw, then.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,147
    Chris said:

    I can't help feeling that if Theresa May collapsed on the floor in a gibbering heap, mumbling that she couldn't take any more, some Tories here would praise it as a bravura performance. And if Jeremy Corbyn waded into the audience with a machete, some on the other side would be saying he's done quite well all things considered.

    People have been celebrating her performance on here? Must have missed it...
  • TMA1TMA1 Posts: 225
    Clearly a totally pointless exercise to determine the outcome of of this QT thing from the comments on here.
    Totally predictable.
    And was this QT thing ever going to tell us anything?
    What is the criteria by which supposedly intelligent people judge our leaders?
    Has anyone ever seen the pre TV statements from politicians to the public? How do they go down now? But is that an indicator of their abilities as statesmen?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,319
    Jonathan said:

    Well, IMO whoever wins is in for an utterly brutal time. Won't last five years.

    Yes, I think the party will be gunning for May as soon as Brexit is done. Lots of unhappy people with the leftist crap on energy price caps and the racial pay charter.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    Scott_P said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Scott, she said she'd walk away. Whether she will or not is another matter, but she needs to give the impression to the EU that she will.

    No, she didn't.
    I think there was a language issue at the end; I think she thought she'd made it clear that she would walk away but like most politicians she is programmed not to answer 'yes' or 'no'.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    edited May 2017
    Look on the bright side for Corbyn; the lengthy list of questions about his attitude to foreign affairs thirty years ago always means that his back-of-an-envelope economic policies for the next five years never get any real scrutiny.
  • Torby_FennelTorby_Fennel Posts: 438
    If May wins the election I'll think "oh well..." If Corbyn wins the election I'll think "oh hell!"

    Corbyn was the stronger peformer tonight but I don't think May was all that bad either. I'm voting Lib Dem anyway so my vote wasn't up for grabs tonight.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    RobD said:

    I think she said "no deal better than a bad deal" about twenty times!

    Exactly, That's the point. She said that because it got applause, but she couldn't actually say she would do it, because she knows it's not true.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,651
    edited May 2017
    Sean_F said:

    It looks like a score draw, then.

    Nah, a win for May.
    Calling the Falklands a 'Tory plot' o_O ?!
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,925
    SeanT said:

    She improved towards the end (I'm watching it on a 5 minute delay)

    But she's really not tele-friendly.

    Ed Balls as Labour leader offering Soft Brexit would beat her by 50/30.

    Ed Balls turned a safe Labour seat Conservative.

    There seems to be an increasing differential to how things are viewed from inside and outside the M25.
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    surbiton said:

    No one under the age of 45 remembers the Falklands. In fact, the IRA question is more relevant as it was here.

    I'm 34 and watched "An ungentlemanly act" last week, in fact most of my friends remember it and none of them are over 45.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Pulpstar said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Why didn't she just say that no she hasn't changed her mind, she preferred to Remain but will work for the best Leave? Would that have been so bad?

    "I'd have preferred to remain" Headlines from the papers.
    I have wondered, given how she has presented since the Brexit vote, whether she was suggesting she had realised she was wrong to back remain in the first place, or if she accepted that however good a deal she thinks we can get, it will not be as good as remaining. Or as some of her early supporters bizarrely thought, that she was really a leaver. I was always prepared, in the absence of evidence, to assume she told the truth and that she felt remaining was best, but is dealing with the aftermath.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2017
    One for the new band of Corbo lovers... who cares if they loved the IRA, at least they're not Tories eh?

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/670534592424771584
  • macisbackmacisback Posts: 382
    midwinter said:

    Pulpstar said:

    4 rounds to Jez, 3 to May. Knockout stoppage victory for May by Falklands in round 8.

    Oh dear what does Mrs Pulpstar say

    Jezza won every round
    Corbyn was better with the audience, May was better with Paxman.
    Maybe I think though Corbyn played Paxo quite well, elongated the trivia so there was less time for the serious questions. May ended well which might save her.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TudorRose said:

    I think there was a language issue at the end; I think she thought she'd made it clear that she would walk away but like most politicians she is programmed not to answer 'yes' or 'no'.

    Again, that's the whole point.

    She made the slogan clear, but when asked to confirm she would take no deal, she refused.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,021
    Overall I think Corbyn did the hopey changey stuff well. He also did quite frankly a great job in front of the audience.

    His problem was he got utterly skewered on the drone strike/falklands stuff.

    If he didn't have the baggage he'd have won that by a country mile. What will be interesting is whether the papers seize on the last 5 minutes and run with it. My suspicion is they will.

    May was dull and stuttering. She did a good job on the social care stuff and was saved by Paxo on Brexit at the end. No blood was drawn.

    We'll now see how the media plays it. My guess is tomorrow will be all about Corbyn's baggage. Which will suit the Tories.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,319

    SeanT said:

    She might have lost the election tonight. She's really really not very good.

    I wish she was. But she ain't.

    Do you really think elections i.e. seats are won or lost by stuff like this on TV? As long as they don't make a massive gaffe I don't think it changes a single vote. All this crap about wobbles are advanced by the media to make a story. The actual ground war where seats are lost and won is a different proposition. You can win the election in terms of seats convincingly yet not do that well in the media. I don't think when people hear Corbyn talk about spending significantly more money without a viable plan to raise revenue, they believe him. May is such a clear front runner that it is the only hope of the media to try and winkle out some area where she does not have such a solid lead. Every election campaign runs on similar narratives the only difference is Labour and the Tories switch sides in the narrative depending on who is starting out on top and likely to win. The media will talk about a last minute surge to the Tories next week or late swing.
    I think Corbyn's Falklands comment is a gaffe. Not sure how he will be able to get away from calling it a Tory plot. That's what crazy conspiracy types would say.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,730
    surbiton said:

    No one under the age of 45 remembers the Falklands. In fact, the IRA question is more relevant as it was here.

    Voters aged over 45 do, and they vote in big numbers.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PeterMannionMP: No Paxman is better than a bad Paxman.

    #BattleForNumber10 #MayVCorbyn #GE2017
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    FF43 said:

    The point Paxman is making about May not accepting she got it wrong about Brexit indicates she doesn't believe in it, is an interesting one.

    The truthful answer is that May thinks Brexit is crap but she can usefully make it less crap than it would otherwise be. Of course, she can't say that ...

    She is head of the party which was and again hopes to be be charged with making Brexit happen. What she thought, or what Jezza thinks, is unimportant. It is to balance the wish of the majority of the country with perceived best interests of the country economically (because economically is all there is that can be dropped on your foot).

    People conflate the Cons with Brexiteers, which roughly corresponds to the truth, but is irrelevant to the task at hand. It isn't fair that the Cons will be penalised for Brexit, but then that's the way it goes.
    I think it matters because it sets expectations. You can't go into a negotiation expecting to get a bad deal. The problem is that any Brexit deal will be worse than what we have already. That's the consequence of the vote to Leave. There is a need to get the best deal we can, whatever it is. The risk is that the best deal won't meet the unrealistic expectations and we walk away over the cliff edge.

    It does worry me. Brexit was not a sensible decision as I far as was concerned but we are where are. We need to the best of it. That includes having the best arrangement going forward thatt we can get. She could screw this up.
    If we walk over the cliff edge then it will be the electorate who told the government to do so. Is the line that I understand.

    As I have said many times on here, I believe that any government could say that we will stay in the single market and continue with FoM and as long as we "leave the EU", everyone should be happy. But they wouldn't be and I think any politician who disregarded the will of the people to such an extent would be penalised at the next available opportunity.

    The reality is that we will be poorer as a result of Brexit. But we would be poorer as a result of a Labour government and we manage to survive it. In both instances, of course, it is those who can least afford it who suffer most but each of those still has a vote.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    More wibbly and wobbly than a Jelly and Blancmange Pudding

    I think about 45% prefer jelly and blancmange to 32% for red meat and 10% for vegetarian quiche ....
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    SeanT said:

    She might have lost the election tonight. She's really really not very good.

    I wish she was. But she ain't.

    Do you really think elections i.e. seats are won or lost by stuff like this on TV? As long as they don't make a massive gaffe I don't think it changes a single vote. All this crap about wobbles are advanced by the media to make a story. The actual ground war where seats are lost and won is a different proposition. You can win the election in terms of seats convincingly yet not do that well in the media. I don't think when people hear Corbyn talk about spending significantly more money without a viable plan to raise revenue, they believe him. May is such a clear front runner that it is the only hope of the media to try and winkle out some area where she does not have such a solid lead. Every election campaign runs on similar narratives the only difference is Labour and the Tories switch sides in the narrative depending on who is starting out on top and likely to win. The media will talk about a last minute surge to the Tories next week or late swing. I don't believe this actually happens rather it is a convenient term used to explain how opinion polls have been adjusted throughout an election campaign to make a story.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    HaroldO said:

    surbiton said:

    No one under the age of 45 remembers the Falklands. In fact, the IRA question is more relevant as it was here.

    I'm 34 and watched "An ungentlemanly act" last week, in fact most of my friends remember it and none of them are over 45.
    I presume 'no one remembers' is a euphemism for 'no-one cares', since people use the former quite a bit on things younger people are perfectly capable of remembering and it is stupid to suggest they don't. On the Falklands, for one thing it crops up in the news every few years for one reason or another, I'm sure people under 45 notice it to some degree.
  • JamesMJamesM Posts: 221
    edited May 2017
    I am a Conservative supporter. I am biased. But I genuinely don't think Mrs May did badly in the interview. But Paxman didn't let her (nor Corbyn) speak initially, but she didn't make any big errors. Would I have given her a standing ovation as one in the audience did? No. She doesn't have rousing soundbites. Could she think faster on her feet? Probably. But I guess most of us could when nervous. The public know she is knowledgeable (good use of stats), dependable and completely serious in comparison to Mr Corbyn. She has also got years of experience in government and that is invaluable in these Brexit times. I would also hazard a guess she is far closer to the public's political compass than Mr Corbyn is too.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,497
    Jonathan said:

    May

    First half 6/10
    Second Half 6/10

    Corbyn 15 - May 12

    Ditto, Jonathan.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    edited May 2017

    If May wins the election I'll think "oh well..." If Corbyn wins the election I'll think "oh hell!"

    Corbyn was the stronger peformer tonight but I don't think May was all that bad either. I'm voting Lib Dem anyway so my vote wasn't up for grabs tonight.

    Then your judgement may well be sounder than many others on here! Since it not only wasn't up for grabs, but you aren't backing either of the two on display.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289

    midwinter said:

    Pulpstar said:

    4 rounds to Jez, 3 to May. Knockout stoppage victory for May by Falklands in round 8.

    Oh dear what does Mrs Pulpstar say

    Jezza won every round
    Corbyn was better with the audience, May was better with Paxman.
    Paxman made her very weak and wobbly.
    I thought May was worse with Paxo, although both were poor. It would have been better if they had each been asked similar questions on key policy areas - Brexit, health, etc.- rather than Paxo focusing on what he felt were the personal weaknesses of each leader.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,883
    Scott_P said:

    TudorRose said:

    I think there was a language issue at the end; I think she thought she'd made it clear that she would walk away but like most politicians she is programmed not to answer 'yes' or 'no'.

    Again, that's the whole point.

    She made the slogan clear, but when asked to confirm she would take no deal, she refused.
    Paxman should have been quicker and asked her if remaining was better than no deal.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,373
    I know someone who worked for the CCHQ at the last election, he said shows like this are what you can clip and use against your opponents in attack ads.

    In 2015 it was Ed Miliband saying the last Labour government hadn't overspent

    In 2017 it will be Corbyn's response/quote about The Falklands War/Tory plot.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,783

    I thought May was fine, and stood up to Paxman well.

    Her answer on Brexit being the right decision was slightly evasive, but she finished strongly on "no deal" and "difficult woman" that went down well.

    RobD said:


    People have been celebrating her performance on here? Must have missed it...

    ;-)
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,252
    Thought Jezza did better with the audience; Tezza with Paxman
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,147
    Chris said:

    I thought May was fine, and stood up to Paxman well.

    Her answer on Brexit being the right decision was slightly evasive, but she finished strongly on "no deal" and "difficult woman" that went down well.

    RobD said:


    People have been celebrating her performance on here? Must have missed it...

    ;-)
    Fine counts as celebrating now?
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    edited May 2017
    jonny83 said:

    SeanT said:

    I wonder how Thatcher would have handled TV formats like this. Genuinely don't know.

    This was almost the same format and she did very well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhLRtUUdDsY
    Maggie was in a completely different league.
    Simpler times in a way. Comments not focus-grouped, less fear of being reported out of context, no interruptions from the interviewer, more decorum and respect all round.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,925
    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    Well, IMO whoever wins is in for an utterly brutal time. Won't last five years.

    Yes, I think the party will be gunning for May as soon as Brexit is done. Lots of unhappy people with the leftist crap on energy price caps and the racial pay charter.
    But what's the difference between May's energy cap and Cameron's 2015 rail fares cap ?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761
    JamesM said:

    I am a Conservative supporter. I am biased. But I genuinely don't think Mrs May did badly in the interview. But Paxman didn't let her (nor Corbyn) speak initially, but she didn't make any big errors. Would I have given her a standing ovation as one in the audience did? No. She doesn't have rousing soundbites. Could she think faster on her feet? Probably. But I guess most of us could when nervous. The public know she is knowledgeable (good use of stats), dependable and completely serious in comparison to Mr Corbyn. She has also got years of experience in government and that is invaluable in these Brexit times. I would also hazard a guess she is far closer to the public's political compass than Mr Corbyn is too.

    She had one job for 6 years get immigration down

    "Yes I know I failed"
  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    isam said:

    One for the new band of Corbo lovers... who cares if they loved the IRA, at least they're not Tories eh?

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/670534592424771584

    that should be enough to finish any opposition party. strange times
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    What was the Falklands quote?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,688

    If May wins the election I'll think "oh well..." If Corbyn wins the election I'll think "oh hell!"

    Corbyn was the stronger peformer tonight but I don't think May was all that bad either. I'm voting Lib Dem anyway so my vote wasn't up for grabs tonight.

    I doubt more than a million or 2 watched it anyway, it was not a head to head and on C4, I doubt it changes anything, neither had an outstanding performance it seems either
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    isam said:

    One for the new band of Corbo lovers... who cares if they loved the IRA, at least they're not Tories eh?

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/670534592424771584

    McDonnell doesn't get nearly as much stick as he should, he's far worse than Corbyn. Corbyn has (misguided) principles, McDonnell knows he's a nasty piece of work but unlike Corbyn has the ability to lie through his teeth.

    This guy could be the next Chancellor.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,319

    I know someone who worked for the CCHQ at the last election, he said shows like this are what you can clip and use against your opponents in attack ads.

    In 2015 it was Ed Miliband saying the last Labour government hadn't overspent

    In 2017 it will be Corbyn's response/quote about The Falklands War/Tory plot.

    Yes, that seems like today's take away. It's made him look like the crazy person he is in reality rather than the lies he's been telling lately.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Sean_F said:

    surbiton said:

    No one under the age of 45 remembers the Falklands. In fact, the IRA question is more relevant as it was here.

    Voters aged over 45 do, and they vote in big numbers.
    They might tell the kids about it too.

    I wasn't about in WW2 but I still know I wouldn't vote for someone who sided w the Nazis. I think the lefties are failing to give youngsters any credit if they think they don't care because it was before their time
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    Well, IMO whoever wins is in for an utterly brutal time. Won't last five years.

    Yes, I think the party will be gunning for May as soon as Brexit is done. Lots of unhappy people with the leftist crap on energy price caps and the racial pay charter.
    That would give her 3 years as PM assuming we sign an end deal on time?

    "I've achieved my aim, and it took everything I had, so now time to hand over to a new leader to take us forward into the post Brexit age"?
  • Well, reading the comments was interesting. They remind me of Crick et al when they shout offensive questions to politicians as they are going into and out of 10, Downing Street. People mock the 1950s interviews on TV with their fawning, but is this really better, or more informative ?

    Why do politicians put themselves through this sort of event except because they can't avoid them ?

    May was totally right not the go for the seven in a ring event the left demanded.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    IanB2 said:

    midwinter said:

    Pulpstar said:

    4 rounds to Jez, 3 to May. Knockout stoppage victory for May by Falklands in round 8.

    Oh dear what does Mrs Pulpstar say

    Jezza won every round
    Corbyn was better with the audience, May was better with Paxman.
    Paxman made her very weak and wobbly.
    I thought May was worse with Paxo, although both were poor. It would have been better if they had each been asked similar questions on key policy areas - Brexit, health, etc.- rather than Paxo focusing on what he felt were the personal weaknesses of each leader.
    That is why debates are better than this format. Everyone responds to the same question. They also get the time to consider before they speak.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,292

    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    Well, IMO whoever wins is in for an utterly brutal time. Won't last five years.

    Yes, I think the party will be gunning for May as soon as Brexit is done. Lots of unhappy people with the leftist crap on energy price caps and the racial pay charter.
    But what's the difference between May's energy cap and Cameron's 2015 rail fares cap ?
    Energy customers have a choice, rail passengers don't?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,883
    RobD said:

    Chris said:

    I thought May was fine, and stood up to Paxman well.

    Her answer on Brexit being the right decision was slightly evasive, but she finished strongly on "no deal" and "difficult woman" that went down well.

    RobD said:


    People have been celebrating her performance on here? Must have missed it...

    ;-)
    Fine counts as celebrating now?
    When I scanned the comments I thought you'd said "Pray for May" instead of "Par for May".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,688
    SeanT said:

    She improved towards the end (I'm watching it on a 5 minute delay)

    But she's really not tele-friendly.

    Ed Balls as Labour leader offering Soft Brexit would beat her by 50/30.

    No, yougov last weekend had May beating Mrs Balls, Yvette Cooper, 44% to 33%
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,651
    edited May 2017

    I know someone who worked for the CCHQ at the last election, he said shows like this are what you can clip and use against your opponents in attack ads.

    In 2015 it was Ed Miliband saying the last Labour government hadn't overspent

    In 2017 it will be Corbyn's response/quote about The Falklands War/Tory plot.

    "And Fatah" brought up by Jez himself.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    kjohnw said:

    isam said:

    One for the new band of Corbo lovers... who cares if they loved the IRA, at least they're not Tories eh?

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/670534592424771584

    that should be enough to finish any opposition party. strange times
    The problem is, all this is coming out in the Telegraph. Talk about preaching to the converted.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,147

    RobD said:

    Chris said:

    I thought May was fine, and stood up to Paxman well.

    Her answer on Brexit being the right decision was slightly evasive, but she finished strongly on "no deal" and "difficult woman" that went down well.

    RobD said:


    People have been celebrating her performance on here? Must have missed it...

    ;-)
    Fine counts as celebrating now?
    When I scanned the comments I thought you'd said "Pray for May" instead of "Par for May".
    LOL. That was my comment before the debate. :smiley:
  • glwglw Posts: 10,010
    kjohnw said:

    isam said:

    One for the new band of Corbo lovers... who cares if they loved the IRA, at least they're not Tories eh?

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/670534592424771584

    that should be enough to finish any opposition party. strange times
    The contemporary Labour Party is morally bankrupt.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,373

    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    Well, IMO whoever wins is in for an utterly brutal time. Won't last five years.

    Yes, I think the party will be gunning for May as soon as Brexit is done. Lots of unhappy people with the leftist crap on energy price caps and the racial pay charter.
    But what's the difference between May's energy cap and Cameron's 2015 rail fares cap ?
    ROCs receive subsidies from the taxpayers and energy companies don't?
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    Scott_P said:

    TudorRose said:

    I think there was a language issue at the end; I think she thought she'd made it clear that she would walk away but like most politicians she is programmed not to answer 'yes' or 'no'.

    Again, that's the whole point.

    She made the slogan clear, but when asked to confirm she would take no deal, she refused.
    That wasn't the impression I got. The impression I got was that she couldn't understand why Paxman was repeating the question when she thought she'd already answered it.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,925
    JackW said:

    More wibbly and wobbly than a Jelly and Blancmange Pudding

    I think about 45% prefer jelly and blancmange to 32% for red meat and 10% for vegetarian quiche ....
    Is that a new culinary ARSE ?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,403
    edited May 2017
    I REALLY thought this would have been a US style head-to-head debate!

    BITTERLY disappointed on that front :lol:
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,768
    Still May by a mile. But it will be a phyrric victory.
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited May 2017
    isam said:

    One for the new band of Corbo lovers... who cares if they loved the IRA, at least they're not Tories eh?

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/670534592424771584

    Anybody who jokes about kneecapping in the Northern Ireland context is a f*ckwit at best. MI5 have a scored a point here.

  • It will be Labour supporters who are GLUMBUCKETS when Corbyns performance is televised.
    his passed will stop any Labour advance in its tracks.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,147
    Jonathan said:

    Still May by a mile. But it will be a phyrric victory.

    Depends, if it's still 100+ I don't think there will be many that are dissapointed.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,783
    RobD said:

    Chris said:

    I thought May was fine, and stood up to Paxman well.

    Her answer on Brexit being the right decision was slightly evasive, but she finished strongly on "no deal" and "difficult woman" that went down well.

    RobD said:


    People have been celebrating her performance on here? Must have missed it...

    ;-)
    Fine counts as celebrating now?
    ;-O
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,255

    SeanT said:

    I wonder how Thatcher would have handled TV formats like this. Genuinely don't know.

    This was almost the same format and she did very well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhLRtUUdDsY
    The fight on school milk between Thatcher and the audience member at 13:06 to 16:17 is very interesting.

    I wonder how that would "trend" in the modern age.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2017
    surbiton said:

    No one under the age of 45 remembers the Falklands. In fact, the IRA question is more relevant as it was here.

    I'm younger than 45 and don't actually remember the Falklands from the time, but I can remember being interested in it from about 1990 onwards. The same must be true for a lot of younger people.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,319

    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    Well, IMO whoever wins is in for an utterly brutal time. Won't last five years.

    Yes, I think the party will be gunning for May as soon as Brexit is done. Lots of unhappy people with the leftist crap on energy price caps and the racial pay charter.
    But what's the difference between May's energy cap and Cameron's 2015 rail fares cap ?
    Railways are run by regional monopolies, regulating fares makes sense unless a system where franchising is taken out and shot and replaced with completely open access to drive competition on single routes.

    The energy market is not in the same position, anyone can switch to a different energy supplier, when I was commuting I had to get the awul Great Northern service or I wouldn't be able to get to work.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    Jonathan said:

    Well, IMO whoever wins is in for an utterly brutal time. May won't last five years on tonight's performance.

    The biggest winners will be the councillors of whichever party loses on June 8th
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Jezza still has The One Show to navigate before he seals the deal.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,292

    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    Well, IMO whoever wins is in for an utterly brutal time. Won't last five years.

    Yes, I think the party will be gunning for May as soon as Brexit is done. Lots of unhappy people with the leftist crap on energy price caps and the racial pay charter.
    But what's the difference between May's energy cap and Cameron's 2015 rail fares cap ?
    ROCs receive subsidies from the taxpayers and energy companies don't?
    You mean TOCs. And actually that's not the issue. The issue is that for some rail users (like me, but perhaps not you, but I'm not sure) there is no choice but to commute to work by train.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,531
    Saw nowt to change my opinion that 100+ will be the majority. However, reinforced my view that there is a small, but very noisy minority who will want TM to walk at the first sign of any difficulty. They will become larger and more angry when each detail of negotiation is revealed. Not sure she has the political steel to stare them down.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    I am getting nostalgic for the Ed M 'No' on if Labour overspent and the reaction that got in the same format last time. Famously (for me), the prepared response as reported after the GE was basically the same only with the No at the end, basically the answer preparing the way for a No rather than leading with it, causing gasps. That is, he had an answer that might have worked, but delivered it poorly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    bobajobPB said:

    Jezza still has The One Show to navigate before he seals the deal.

    All the buttering up might be bad for his arteries.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    edited May 2017

    jonny83 said:

    SeanT said:

    I wonder how Thatcher would have handled TV formats like this. Genuinely don't know.

    This was almost the same format and she did very well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhLRtUUdDsY
    Maggie was in a completely different league.
    Simpler times in a way. Comments not focus-grouped, less fear of being reported out of context, no interruptions from the interviewer, more decorum and respect all round.
    I think she would have handled this era fine, she was a one off. There will always be a Thatcher and May comparison because they were obviously both women, but Maggie was much much more formidable, a political colossus.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,774
    Jonathan said:

    Still May by a mile. But it will be a phyrric victory.

    A win is a win. But the next five years are going to be very, very hard for May. And if Labour learns the right lesson from this campaign, it will be in serious contention in 2022. Big if, though.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,292
    AndyJS said:

    surbiton said:

    No one under the age of 45 remembers the Falklands. In fact, the IRA question is more relevant as it was here.

    I'm younger than 45 and don't actually remember the Falklands from the time, but I can remember being interested in it from about 1990 onwards. The same must be true for a lot of younger people.
    It received a lot of attention in 2002 during the 20th anniversary.
  • I mean Corbyns past, will stop Labour.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,319
    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    Well, IMO whoever wins is in for an utterly brutal time. Won't last five years.

    Yes, I think the party will be gunning for May as soon as Brexit is done. Lots of unhappy people with the leftist crap on energy price caps and the racial pay charter.
    But what's the difference between May's energy cap and Cameron's 2015 rail fares cap ?
    ROCs receive subsidies from the taxpayers and energy companies don't?
    You mean TOCs. And actually that's not the issue. The issue is that for some rail users (like me, but perhaps not you, but I'm not sure) there is no choice but to commute to work by train.
    Indeed, it's why I think railways (along with water) could probably be nationalised without anyone really noticing.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    bobajobPB said:

    Jezza still has The One Show to navigate before he seals the deal.

    That is a tough one:

    Q1) How is your allotment doing? Do you have a jam recipie to share with our viewers...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    RobD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Still May by a mile. But it will be a phyrric victory.

    Depends, if it's still 100+ I don't think there will be many that are dissapointed.
    It will be amusing. I for one will have to eat my words, but it will be a strange experience for her detractors if she has what many Tories consider to be a crap campaign and showed herself poorly, and she ends up winning a landslide anyway.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,010

    Well, reading the comments was interesting. They remind me of Crick et al when they shout offensive questions to politicians as they are going into and out of 10, Downing Street. People mock the 1950s interviews on TV with their fawning, but is this really better, or more informative ?

    No. There was a period when the fawning ended but the "gotchas" weren't the norm. People like John Cole got the balance right.

    Nowadays too many of the political correspondents have big egos, and seem to delight in these stupid games. It's not as bad as in the US, but we are heading in the same direction.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,925

    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    Well, IMO whoever wins is in for an utterly brutal time. Won't last five years.

    Yes, I think the party will be gunning for May as soon as Brexit is done. Lots of unhappy people with the leftist crap on energy price caps and the racial pay charter.
    But what's the difference between May's energy cap and Cameron's 2015 rail fares cap ?
    ROCs receive subsidies from the taxpayers and energy companies don't?
    The difference is that there is no difference - governments meddle when they think it wins them votes.

    If in 2015 EdM had proposed a rail fares cap then Cameron would have proposed an energy price cap.

    In fact the government was already meddling in energy prices with its cut in fuel duty in 2011.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,410
    isam said:
    I think that's right. The public think a comprehensive treaty between the UK and the EU is a haggle at the Brussels souk
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    More wibbly and wobbly than a Jelly and Blancmange Pudding

    I think about 45% prefer jelly and blancmange to 32% for red meat and 10% for vegetarian quiche ....
    Is that a new culinary ARSE ?
    :smiley: .... and 4% haggis ....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,373
    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    Well, IMO whoever wins is in for an utterly brutal time. Won't last five years.

    Yes, I think the party will be gunning for May as soon as Brexit is done. Lots of unhappy people with the leftist crap on energy price caps and the racial pay charter.
    But what's the difference between May's energy cap and Cameron's 2015 rail fares cap ?
    ROCs receive subsidies from the taxpayers and energy companies don't?
    You mean TOCs. And actually that's not the issue. The issue is that for some rail users (like me, but perhaps not you, but I'm not sure) there is no choice but to commute to work by train.
    Yah, ROCs is a work acronym that auto-correct changed.

    Yes, it is is either use the train to get to Manchester or stay in Manchester overnight.

    Driving over Woodhead or Snake Pass on a daily basis isn't really an option for me
  • Torby_FennelTorby_Fennel Posts: 438
    kle4 said:



    Then your judgement may well be sounder than many others on here! Since it not only wasn't up for grabs, but you aren't backing either of the two on display.

    I was only watching out of curiosity really. :)

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,255
    SeanT said:

    She improved towards the end (I'm watching it on a 5 minute delay)

    But she's really not tele-friendly.

    Ed Balls as Labour leader offering Soft Brexit would beat her by 50/30.

    Perhaps, but "soft Brexit" means "free movement".
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Jonathan said:

    Still May by a mile. But it will be a phyrric victory.

    If she gets the highest share of the vote since 1970 and a 100+ majority, will it still be in that category?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    It will be Labour supporters who are GLUMBUCKETS when Corbyns performance is televised.
    his passed will stop any Labour advance in its tracks.

    People keep saying that will happen. Of course they might already have hit their ceiling in any case, though they've proven us wrong on that so far. Here's hoping.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Cyan said:

    isam said:

    One for the new band of Corbo lovers... who cares if they loved the IRA, at least they're not Tories eh?

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/670534592424771584

    Anybody who jokes about kneecapping in the Northern Ireland context is a f*ckwit at best. MI5 have a scored a point here.

    How convenient that that came out .

    Any more?

    You betcha.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,774
    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    She improved towards the end (I'm watching it on a 5 minute delay)

    But she's really not tele-friendly.

    Ed Balls as Labour leader offering Soft Brexit would beat her by 50/30.

    No, yougov last weekend had May beating Mrs Balls, Yvette Cooper, 44% to 33%

    Totally meaningless.

  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    kle4 said:

    I am getting nostalgic for the Ed M 'No' on if Labour overspent and the reaction that got in the same format last time. Famously (for me), the prepared response as reported after the GE was basically the same only with the No at the end, basically the answer preparing the way for a No rather than leading with it, causing gasps. That is, he had an answer that might have worked, but delivered it poorly.

    As soon as that happened I knew that was a massive bollock dropped by EdM. Massive. But the media hardly picked up on it until after the election with the benefit of hindsight. A lot of these media chaps get paid ££££ to have a tin ear.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,147
    edited May 2017

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    Well, IMO whoever wins is in for an utterly brutal time. Won't last five years.

    Yes, I think the party will be gunning for May as soon as Brexit is done. Lots of unhappy people with the leftist crap on energy price caps and the racial pay charter.
    But what's the difference between May's energy cap and Cameron's 2015 rail fares cap ?
    ROCs receive subsidies from the taxpayers and energy companies don't?
    You mean TOCs. And actually that's not the issue. The issue is that for some rail users (like me, but perhaps not you, but I'm not sure) there is no choice but to commute to work by train.
    Yah, ROCs is a work acronym that auto-correct changed.

    Yes, it is is either use the train to get to Manchester or stay in Manchester overnight.

    Driving over Woodhead or Snake Pass on a daily basis isn't really an option for me
    Receiver Operating Characteristic?

    (or Right Old Cock?)
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    HYUFD said:

    If May wins the election I'll think "oh well..." If Corbyn wins the election I'll think "oh hell!"

    Corbyn was the stronger peformer tonight but I don't think May was all that bad either. I'm voting Lib Dem anyway so my vote wasn't up for grabs tonight.

    I doubt more than a million or 2 watched it anyway, it was not a head to head and on C4, I doubt it changes anything, neither had an outstanding performance it seems either
    The Sun and the Mail will make sure everyone knows about Corbyn and his Falklands conspiracy theory.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,255

    JohnO said:

    Corbyn finished in the bunker on security; May finished with a flourish on Brexit.

    Corbyn 5/10, May 6/10

    That would be my score too. Although it's events like this when I do miss Dave!
    Agree too.
    Dave wasn't particularly good against Paxman, and avoided debates like the plague.

    Thatcher? No problem.
  • camelcamel Posts: 815
    AndyJS said:

    surbiton said:

    No one under the age of 45 remembers the Falklands. In fact, the IRA question is more relevant as it was here.

    I'm younger than 45 and don't actually remember the Falklands from the time, but I can remember being interested in it from about 1990 onwards. The same must be true for a lot of younger people.
    You were ten at the time.

    Was John Craven not part of your childhood?
This discussion has been closed.