Farron just comes across as a boy sent to do a man's job. I feel sorry for him because no matter how well constructed his rhetoric is, he doesn't have what it takes.
I agree. It's a delight to watch Brexit getting such a kicking. And without any supporters except for the completely hopeless Paul Nuttall. Where did they find him!
FPT - that truly is terrific snobbery by Hugh Grant.
Being disliked by Hugh Grant will be a massive plus for May. People don't like posh boys much any more...
I don't want to cast aspersions on an entire socio-economic sub-group - but it's become increasingly clear since 2016 that some of the upper-middle (or upper-upper-middle) class don't like the rest of us very much, and don't mind who knows it. With the brief aberration of Gordon Brown, the (upper-)upper-middles have run both parties since 2005, and some of them are finding it quite an imposition to have a social inferior in a position of power.
I suppose Theresa May and Gordon Brown have the commonality that they both grew up as children of clergymen.
And now time for manifesto watch part 3. Buckle in.
FOREWORD Two forewords, really?
Strong and stable
Why is Great Meritocracy capitalised? Is it an actual thing and not a concept?
FIVE GIANT CHALLENGES An interesting idea to summarise the chief challenges facing the country, to inform what they believe the manifesto will address.
Governing from the mainstream is a good idea in general, although the bits about ‘elites in Westminster’ is a nonsense, given who this is coming from.
Because Conservatism is not and never has been the philosophy described by caricaturists - That’s true, although I don’t know why you would make me think of the caricatures by bringing it up.
A STRONG ECONOMY THAT WORKS FOR EVERYONE This is basically the same title as the Labour and LD economy sections.
Ten years after the banking crisis, the deficit is back to where it was. That’s how you’re playing it, really? ‘Still work to do’ is putting it mildly when you are delaying for another 8/9 years.
We will therefore simplify the tax system - Sure you will.
Seems on the face of it to be more info on business regulation than the others.
Why has there not already been a review in the ‘Cost of Energy’?
when necessary, major shale planning decisions will be made the responsibility of the National Planning Regime - Probably necessary. Good plan.
Lot of similar sounding stuff on investment as with Labour and LD, just different numbers.
Move functions of government to other cities? This is always treated as self-evidently a good idea, it is not explained much.
We will grant a free vote, on a government bill in government time, to give parliament the opportunity to decide the future of the Hunting Act. - Felt the need to specify you wouldn’t make a backbencher move it as a private members’ bill, but still so coy as to term it ‘decide the future of’?
First generation to leave the environment in a better state than inherited? Well, no way most MPs will be around to pay the price if that promise fails.
No Scottish referendum ‘at this time’? When then? ‘Until Brexit process has played out’ and only if ‘there is public consent for it to happen’. Unclear.
A much greater emphasis on the Union than the other manifestos.
Will ‘provide clarity’ on what devolution in England means, so all authorities ‘operate in a common framework’ – should have already been the case, but better than nothing.
Will not support mayors for rural counties.
I’m sure more than just the Conservative and Unionist Party delivered the Scotland Act 2012.
Rather confident the NI executive will be in place to be worked with.
Moving civil servants out of London, I’m still unclear why this will make government administration better.
Not repeal the Human Rights Act ‘while the process of Brexit is underway’ but ‘will consider human rights legal framework’ afterwards? So repeal it, but not now, and we don’t want to admit we will repeal it.
Similar to LDs on promoting Britain abroad.
Says will try to change rules on how aid money is spent internationally, and if that doesn’t work, change the law to allow to ‘use a better definition of development spending’. I don’t know what this means.
Oldest parliament of ‘large democracies’ –nice to not annoy the Tynwald by saying oldest of all.
Extending FPTP to PCC and Mayoral elections - Good idea? In other years, they might not have come first in some, and have needed transfers? Or do they assume they’d always come of worst in transfers?
Not reducing voting age.
IDs at voting – I’m torn, as I like the trusting nature of our process, but it is open to abuse, and most people I speak to left and right who are not wonks are often astonished you do not need ID already.
House of Lords – ‘Comprehensive’ reform not a priority, but ‘ensure’ it fulfills its constitutional role. Only issue mentioned is size, leaves the door wide open for a variety of changes. Why even say it is not a priority? Who cares about it enough to want change, but is worried you will move too fast?
‘Historic falls in crime’ – not according to the other manifestos. I’d like some figures.
Serious Fraud Office into the NCA? I thought this had already happened.
Widen role of PCCs to help them cut crime? If they couldn’t already, what was the point? PCC already on Health and Wellbeing Board in my area, and it is a pointless talking shop.
I think Corbyn should have turned up for the ITV Debate at the last minute - it would have embarrassed May big time.
He's got a bit of momentum and appearing tonight could only have helped.
Downside would have been minimal.
Corbyn can not think on his feet, to some extent he can read a speech, to a cheering crowd at least. but look at him in PMQs he can read a pre prepared question but has no ability to dynamically come back. If he was the one answering not asking the questions he would be stuffed.
When May opted out of the debates she did him a bigger favour than anybody.
Eh? It was in Corbyn's interest to appear. I can't believe he didn't. Given the Tories are there in the form of UKIP.
THE WORLD’S GREAT MERITOCRACY Cameron seemed to care a great deal about social injustices, this talks the talk similarly.
Contrary to what some people allege, official research shows that slightly more children from ordinary, working class families attend selective schools as a percentage of the school intake compared to nonselective schools - One of the few statements they have so far acknowledged what others think about a policy, clearly they are worried that people do not like the policy due to misunderstanding.
Bold to include the figure immigration is at.
Not as focused as much on LGBT issues, but more info on several injustice issues.
A RESTORED CONTRACT BETWEEN THE GENERATIONS Weak and woolly on the deficit – banking on people not believing the others, rather than believing their own spiel.
Are keeping Triple lock until 2020, then double lock.
Why maintain all other pensioner benefits if it is so necessary to means test winter fuel payments?
8 billion over five years in NHS seems like barely anything next to Labour’s over 30 billion.
Overseas people paying will be pilloried by many, but is probably popular.
‘Powers to act’ if developers do not act on planning permission. How? Currently permission expires after a number of years if you do not start does it not?
As unrealistic on housing as the others.
Not promising new towns or garden cities?
Same further goodies on childcare as the others
PROSPERITY AND SECURITY IN A DIGITAL AGE Philosophical challenges? Oh no.
CONCLUSION Solid design, simple to understand the key messages, theme of measured progress. There is no mention of Labour, Corbyn or the opposition in the document.
COMPARISON Bit wordy compared to the LD one, but clearer than Labour’s – too much like mini essays for quick digestion. Unlike the others, the specific section on Brexit is some ways in not near the start, great focus on the UK Union and economic matters. Not much detail on funding matters though.
Labour manifesto mentioned Tories constantly, very strongly. LDs mentioned them occasionally, in disappointment mostly, but not as strongly. Tories mention neither.
LD manifesto seems the most detailed, but no one will ever know to assess it as the party is dead if the polls are right.
Nuttall's a spiv. I can't remember a less attractive politician. Farron isn't up to leadership that's clear but really only Nicola and Caroline are impressive.
IDs at voting – I’m torn, as I like the trusting nature of our process, but it is open to abuse, and most people I speak to left and right who are not wonks are often astonished you do not need ID already.
This could be very significant - bound to depress turnout of poorer people - could be big boost for Con at the following GE.
Is anyone running a book on how many times Nicola will spit out the words "Tory" or "Tories".
Someone needed to be there to do it.
The record she needs to beat is Alex Salmond, who claimed in September 1995 he didn't need to use the word 'Scottish' at all to define himself or his party before using it 95 times in a 50 minute speech.
Got a leaflet from my Labour candidate today. "I am standing in Dundee West because I believe in Jeremy Corbyn and as a trade unionist I share his vision."
Finishes with another reference to Corbyn too. Not a mention of Kezia anywhere. Curious.
I think Corbyn should have turned up for the ITV Debate at the last minute - it would have embarrassed May big time.
He's got a bit of momentum and appearing tonight could only have helped.
Downside would have been minimal.
Corbyn can not think on his feet, to some extent he can read a speech, to a cheering crowd at least. but look at him in PMQs he can read a pre prepared question but has no ability to dynamically come back. If he was the one answering not asking the questions he would be stuffed.
When May opted out of the debates she did him a bigger favour than anybody.
Eh? It was in Corbyn's interest to appear. I can't believe he didn't. Given the Tories are there in the form of UKIP.
Sturgeon is superb in these situations.
I don't think so, if it was in his interest to appear he would have, he could have, and would then have been in a better position to criticise May, but he also dropped out, and I think its because he know that when asked questions he can not think quick enough to come up with good lines.
I think Corbyn should have turned up for the ITV Debate at the last minute - it would have embarrassed May big time.
He's got a bit of momentum and appearing tonight could only have helped.
Downside would have been minimal.
Corbyn can not think on his feet, to some extent he can read a speech, to a cheering crowd at least. but look at him in PMQs he can read a pre prepared question but has no ability to dynamically come back. If he was the one answering not asking the questions he would be stuffed.
When May opted out of the debates she did him a bigger favour than anybody.
Eh? It was in Corbyn's interest to appear. I can't believe he didn't. Given the Tories are there in the form of UKIP.
Sturgeon is superb in these situations.
I don't think so, if it was in his interest to appear he would have, he could have, and would then have been in a better position to criticise May, but he also dropped out, and I think its because he know that when asked questions he can not think quick enough to come up with good lines.
Got a leaflet from my Labour candidate today. "I am standing in Dundee West because I believe in Jeremy Corbyn and as a trade unionist I share his vision."
Finishes with another reference to Corbyn too. Not a mention of Kezia anywhere. Curious.
Perhaps she will though him out of the party as well!!!! LOL
I think Corbyn should have turned up for the ITV Debate at the last minute - it would have embarrassed May big time.
He's got a bit of momentum and appearing tonight could only have helped.
Downside would have been minimal.
Corbyn can not think on his feet, to some extent he can read a speech, to a cheering crowd at least. but look at him in PMQs he can read a pre prepared question but has no ability to dynamically come back. If he was the one answering not asking the questions he would be stuffed.
When May opted out of the debates she did him a bigger favour than anybody.
Eh? It was in Corbyn's interest to appear. I can't believe he didn't. Given the Tories are there in the form of UKIP.
Sturgeon is superb in these situations.
I don't think so, if it was in his interest to appear he would have, he could have, and would then have been in a better position to criticise May, but he also dropped out, and I think its because he know that when asked questions he can not think quick enough to come up with good lines.
His key weakness is he gets angry and starts shouting and ranting, which always goes down badly. Largely because as you say he is actually not very bright and simply can't think very fast, which you need to be able to do in a debate.
I think Corbyn should have turned up for the ITV Debate at the last minute - it would have embarrassed May big time.
He's got a bit of momentum and appearing tonight could only have helped.
Downside would have been minimal.
Corbyn can not think on his feet, to some extent he can read a speech, to a cheering crowd at least. but look at him in PMQs he can read a pre prepared question but has no ability to dynamically come back. If he was the one answering not asking the questions he would be stuffed.
When May opted out of the debates she did him a bigger favour than anybody.
Eh? It was in Corbyn's interest to appear. I can't believe he didn't. Given the Tories are there in the form of UKIP.
Sturgeon is superb in these situations.
I don't think so, if it was in his interest to appear he would have, he could have, and would then have been in a better position to criticise May, but he also dropped out, and I think its because he know that when asked questions he can not think quick enough to come up with good lines.
But this debate would have been much easier than the BBC1 QT - where he'll have to answer questions and follow-ups on the spot with no thinking time.
Whereas with this debate you have a long time to think while everyone else speaks.
I think Corbyn should have turned up for the ITV Debate at the last minute - it would have embarrassed May big time.
He's got a bit of momentum and appearing tonight could only have helped.
Downside would have been minimal.
Corbyn can not think on his feet, to some extent he can read a speech, to a cheering crowd at least. but look at him in PMQs he can read a pre prepared question but has no ability to dynamically come back. If he was the one answering not asking the questions he would be stuffed.
When May opted out of the debates she did him a bigger favour than anybody.
Eh? It was in Corbyn's interest to appear. I can't believe he didn't. Given the Tories are there in the form of UKIP.
Sturgeon is superb in these situations.
I don't think so, if it was in his interest to appear he would have, he could have, and would then have been in a better position to criticise May, but he also dropped out, and I think its because he know that when asked questions he can not think quick enough to come up with good lines.
And the PM is not there because....?
Judged the risk as higher than the gain. Complacent, as the rise in labour vote has shown.
I think Corbyn should have turned up for the ITV Debate at the last minute - it would have embarrassed May big time.
He's got a bit of momentum and appearing tonight could only have helped.
Downside would have been minimal.
Corbyn can not think on his feet, to some extent he can read a speech, to a cheering crowd at least. but look at him in PMQs he can read a pre prepared question but has no ability to dynamically come back. If he was the one answering not asking the questions he would be stuffed.
When May opted out of the debates she did him a bigger favour than anybody.
Eh? It was in Corbyn's interest to appear. I can't believe he didn't. Given the Tories are there in the form of UKIP.
Sturgeon is superb in these situations.
I don't think so, if it was in his interest to appear he would have, he could have, and would then have been in a better position to criticise May, but he also dropped out, and I think its because he know that when asked questions he can not think quick enough to come up with good lines.
That isn't his approach. He needed airtime and he should have been here. He had more to gain than lose.
IDs at voting – I’m torn, as I like the trusting nature of our process, but it is open to abuse, and most people I speak to left and right who are not wonks are often astonished you do not need ID already.
This could be very significant - bound to depress turnout of poorer people - could be big boost for Con at the following GE.
Got a leaflet from my Labour candidate today. "I am standing in Dundee West because I believe in Jeremy Corbyn and as a trade unionist I share his vision."
Finishes with another reference to Corbyn too. Not a mention of Kezia anywhere. Curious.
We received our first leaflet today - from the Greens. I expected to be bombarded with Tory litter and nothing from anyone else.
Not for the first time, I am impressed by Leanne Wood. She could get a transfer to one of the Premier League sides, couldn't she?
Last time around she talked complete rubbish but in one of the most pleasant accents I have ever heard. Quite forgave the content.
The only moment I can remember from that debate is when she turned to Nigel Farage and said with an apparently genuine sense of perplexity 'Nigel, you talk as if immigration control were the solution to everything.' You could almost see him deflate like a punctured balloon.
FPT - that truly is terrific snobbery by Hugh Grant.
Being disliked by Hugh Grant will be a massive plus for May. People don't like posh boys much any more...
I'm shocked to learn that Hugh Grant read English Literature at New College, Oxford.
Don't you lot have standards over there?
Cambridge admitted Neil Hamilton. End. Of. Argument.
I see your Neil Hamilton and raise you a Jeffrey Archer.
Jeffrey Archer's cv is an elaborate version of the Chronicles of Narnia.
Ok, I raise you Reverend Underpants, Chris Bryant.
But, you missed out the best, most incredible bit. He was an elected office-holder in the Oxford University Conservative Association,
That was long before he became the heart, soul and underpants of Rhondda, My Valley Brave
Really?
I remember seeing him on the TV looking so upset that a Tory Prime Minister had introduced same sex marriage
Yes, really. Bryant is clearly a bit odd, and not exactly the most engaging of politicians, but he doesn't come across as entirely thick. Unlike one or two Cambridge graduates....
Independent = Tory Residents Association = Tory Ratepayers = Tory Any other dodgy description = Tory
I work in an office with a councillor from the Henley Residents Group, he's very, very not Tory. He, and his chums, are not Tory in a way that only privately educated poor little rich boys who continually profess their support for "the workers" in accents that could cut glass, can be.
One of the few bright spots in my working life is listening to them get things so completely wrong at election/referendum time.
I think Corbyn should have turned up for the ITV Debate at the last minute - it would have embarrassed May big time.
He's got a bit of momentum and appearing tonight could only have helped.
Downside would have been minimal.
Corbyn can not think on his feet, to some extent he can read a speech, to a cheering crowd at least. but look at him in PMQs he can read a pre prepared question but has no ability to dynamically come back. If he was the one answering not asking the questions he would be stuffed.
When May opted out of the debates she did him a bigger favour than anybody.
Eh? It was in Corbyn's interest to appear. I can't believe he didn't. Given the Tories are there in the form of UKIP.
Sturgeon is superb in these situations.
I don't think so, if it was in his interest to appear he would have, he could have, and would then have been in a better position to criticise May, but he also dropped out, and I think its because he know that when asked questions he can not think quick enough to come up with good lines.
His key weakness is he gets angry and starts shouting and ranting, which always goes down badly. Largely because as you say he is actually not very bright and simply can't think very fast, which you need to be able to do in a debate.
He's got a 45-minute sit down with Andrew Neil to talk about his manifesto next week, what could possibly go wrong there?
I think Corbyn should have turned up for the ITV Debate at the last minute - it would have embarrassed May big time.
He's got a bit of momentum and appearing tonight could only have helped.
Downside would have been minimal.
Corbyn can not think on his feet, to some extent he can read a speech, to a cheering crowd at least. but look at him in PMQs he can read a pre prepared question but has no ability to dynamically come back. If he was the one answering not asking the questions he would be stuffed.
When May opted out of the debates she did him a bigger favour than anybody.
Eh? It was in Corbyn's interest to appear. I can't believe he didn't. Given the Tories are there in the form of UKIP.
Sturgeon is superb in these situations.
I don't think so, if it was in his interest to appear he would have, he could have, and would then have been in a better position to criticise May, but he also dropped out, and I think its because he know that when asked questions he can not think quick enough to come up with good lines.
And the PM is not there because....?
two possible resones and it may be a combination of both
1) She is winning so why risk any things, even if on balance she will probably pick up more support than she looses, she does not need the risk.
2) She is not a very good Leader or strategist so has missed an opportunity (I know she is a popular PM at the moment, but I think she has been mostly lucky)
While I accept it may be a bit of the former, I think it is mostly the latter.
I think Corbyn should have turned up for the ITV Debate at the last minute - it would have embarrassed May big time.
He's got a bit of momentum and appearing tonight could only have helped.
Downside would have been minimal.
Corbyn can not think on his feet, to some extent he can read a speech, to a cheering crowd at least. but look at him in PMQs he can read a pre prepared question but has no ability to dynamically come back. If he was the one answering not asking the questions he would be stuffed.
When May opted out of the debates she did him a bigger favour than anybody.
Eh? It was in Corbyn's interest to appear. I can't believe he didn't. Given the Tories are there in the form of UKIP.
Sturgeon is superb in these situations.
I don't think so, if it was in his interest to appear he would have, he could have, and would then have been in a better position to criticise May, but he also dropped out, and I think its because he know that when asked questions he can not think quick enough to come up with good lines.
His key weakness is he gets angry and starts shouting and ranting, which always goes down badly. Largely because as you say he is actually not very bright and simply can't think very fast, which you need to be able to do in a debate.
He's got a 45-minute sit down with Andrew Neil to talk about his manifesto next week, what could possibly go wrong there?
Anytime he does badly in front of the media his people blame the media, it will be the same. Question is will the people returning to Labour get to see it if he does badly and then reassess their decision?
IDs at voting – I’m torn, as I like the trusting nature of our process, but it is open to abuse, and most people I speak to left and right who are not wonks are often astonished you do not need ID already.
This could be very significant - bound to depress turnout of poorer people - could be big boost for Con at the following GE.
What government-issued photo IDs do Brits have other than a passport? Is the driver's license now a photo ID?
IDs at voting – I’m torn, as I like the trusting nature of our process, but it is open to abuse, and most people I speak to left and right who are not wonks are often astonished you do not need ID already.
This could be very significant - bound to depress turnout of poorer people - could be big boost for Con at the following GE.
How do you ID postal votes?
Don't know but manifesto says they are also going to reform postal voting.
IDs at voting – I’m torn, as I like the trusting nature of our process, but it is open to abuse, and most people I speak to left and right who are not wonks are often astonished you do not need ID already.
This could be very significant - bound to depress turnout of poorer people - could be big boost for Con at the following GE.
What government-issued photo IDs do Brits have other than a passport? Is the driver's license now a photo ID?
IDs at voting – I’m torn, as I like the trusting nature of our process, but it is open to abuse, and most people I speak to left and right who are not wonks are often astonished you do not need ID already.
This could be very significant - bound to depress turnout of poorer people - could be big boost for Con at the following GE.
What government-issued photo IDs do Brits have other than a passport? Is the driver's license now a photo ID?
Yes, for about 15 years but there are still people with the old paper licence.
IDs at voting – I’m torn, as I like the trusting nature of our process, but it is open to abuse, and most people I speak to left and right who are not wonks are often astonished you do not need ID already.
This could be very significant - bound to depress turnout of poorer people - could be big boost for Con at the following GE.
What government-issued photo IDs do Brits have other than a passport? Is the driver's license now a photo ID?
Yes, new DLs have had photos since about 2000 (look similar to US DLs) but anyone who hasn't needed to change an old one (new address, new category etc) still has a valid paper licence.
I think Corbyn should have turned up for the ITV Debate at the last minute - it would have embarrassed May big time.
He's got a bit of momentum and appearing tonight could only have helped.
Downside would have been minimal.
Corbyn can not think on his feet, to some extent he can read a speech, to a cheering crowd at least. but look at him in PMQs he can read a pre prepared question but has no ability to dynamically come back. If he was the one answering not asking the questions he would be stuffed.
When May opted out of the debates she did him a bigger favour than anybody.
Eh? It was in Corbyn's interest to appear. I can't believe he didn't. Given the Tories are there in the form of UKIP.
Sturgeon is superb in these situations.
I don't think so, if it was in his interest to appear he would have, he could have, and would then have been in a better position to criticise May, but he also dropped out, and I think its because he know that when asked questions he can not think quick enough to come up with good lines.
And the PM is not there because....?
two possible resones and it may be a combination of both
1) She is winning so why risk any things, even if on balance she will probably pick up more support than she looses, she does not need the risk.
2) She is not a very good Leader or strategist so has missed an opportunity (I know she is a popular PM at the moment, but I think she has been mostly lucky)
While I accept it may be a bit of the former, I think it is mostly the latter.
I think it's the former, but it may be she has got it wrong - in which case it is the latter!
It's succeeded in making Corbyn and May's decision look rather shallow. The contrast between the five remaining leaders is very sharp. I'm now going to vote Green. The two Macbeths is a very good analogy. Corbyn a semi tragic hero and May an ambitious ruthless woman in the single minded pursuit of power
It's succeeded in making Corbyn and May's decision look rather shallow. The contrast between the five remaining leaders is very sharp. I'm now going to vote Green. The two Macbeths is a very good analogy. Corbyn a semi tragic hero and May an ambitious ruthless woman in the single minded pursuit of power
Independent = Tory Residents Association = Tory Ratepayers = Tory Any other dodgy description = Tory
I work in an office with a councillor from the Henley Residents Group, he's very, very not Tory. He, and his chums, are not Tory in a way that only privately educated poor little rich boys who continually profess their support for "the workers" in accents that could cut glass, can be.
One of the few bright spots in my working life is listening to them get things so completely wrong at election/referendum time.
WillS.
A former colleague was in the Henley Labour Party. Used to put on brass band concerts in the town....
Not for the first time, I am impressed by Leanne Wood. She could get a transfer to one of the Premier League sides, couldn't she?
Living west of Offa's Dyke I get subjected to Leanne Wood far too much on the news. Borrowing a great phrase from our more northerly Celtic cousins, she's as thick as mince.
It's succeeded in making Corbyn and May's decision look rather shallow. The contrast between the five remaining leaders is very sharp. I'm now going to vote Green. The two Macbeths is a very good analogy. Corbyn a semi tragic hero and May an ambitious ruthless woman in the single minded pursuit of power
What's happened to Labour under Corbyn is hardly semi-tragic. Nor is it heroic.
I think Corbyn should have turned up for the ITV Debate at the last minute - it would have embarrassed May big time.
He's got a bit of momentum and appearing tonight could only have helped.
Downside would have been minimal.
Corbyn can not think on his feet, to some extent he can read a speech, to a cheering crowd at least. but look at him in PMQs he can read a pre prepared question but has no ability to dynamically come back. If he was the one answering not asking the questions he would be stuffed.
When May opted out of the debates she did him a bigger favour than anybody.
Eh? It was in Corbyn's interest to appear. I can't believe he didn't. Given the Tories are there in the form of UKIP.
Sturgeon is superb in these situations.
I don't think so, if it was in his interest to appear he would have, he could have, and would then have been in a better position to criticise May, but he also dropped out, and I think its because he know that when asked questions he can not think quick enough to come up with good lines.
His key weakness is he gets angry and starts shouting and ranting, which always goes down badly. Largely because as you say he is actually not very bright and simply can't think very fast, which you need to be able to do in a debate.
He's got a 45-minute sit down with Andrew Neil to talk about his manifesto next week, what could possibly go wrong there?
Anytime he does badly in front of the media his people blame the media, it will be the same. Question is will the people returning to Labour get to see it if he does badly and then reassess their decision?
Yes, and to be fair, when it is just one Politian and one interview it could be, or it could be he is biased in that Politian's fever. I disagree with Coybyns fans. I think he mostly gets an easy ride from most of the media he engages with, i.e. the guardian, BBC and independent, but I know its a subjective judgment And I could be wrong. One of the very few ways to test it objectively (ish) is to have a debate Politian against Politian not Pol against journalist.
Which is partly why I am annoyed that we are not going to see that.
Not for the first time, I am impressed by Leanne Wood. She could get a transfer to one of the Premier League sides, couldn't she?
Living west of Offa's Dyke I get subjected to Leanne Wood far too much on the news. Borrowing a great phrase from our more northerly Celtic cousins, she's as thick as mince.
Surely you could just join the rest of us and enjoy her wonderful accent?
Nuttall has so far given no Brexiteers reason not to vote May. He's proxyin for the Tories with zero risk to May personally. It is quite amazing. OTOH Lucas is definitely heading for taking voters off Corbyn...
It's succeeded in making Corbyn and May's decision look rather shallow. The contrast between the five remaining leaders is very sharp. I'm now going to vote Green. The two Macbeths is a very good analogy. Corbyn a semi tragic hero and May an ambitious ruthless woman in the single minded pursuit of power
Corbyn is no hero.
A good but flawed man deluded into following a tragic path? Not that far out.
The ID and elections thing - whilst I think the need for it is highly debatable, doesn't it actually depend on what is meant by "ID"? Everyone always seems to assume it means passports (poor don't go abroad), driving licence (poor don't drive) etc. But is it really that much of an issue if the "form of ID" basically amounts to having something (almost anything) with your name on it? Surely almost everyone these days could reach that threshold if they really needed to? Because the big fear of fraud is not the occasional isolated individual which would very rarely affect an UK election but some sort of organised fraud leaving no evidence. It would be very difficult to do that once a basic threshold of ID was set. Because inevitably the fake ID would all end up looking very similar and suspicions would rapidly become aroused.
This is like the opposition debate in 2015. The only winner will be the Tories.
The biggest loser will be Corbyn. He needed this debate more than anyone and it would have had the benefit of isolating May. He's being very badly advised
Not for the first time, I am impressed by Leanne Wood. She could get a transfer to one of the Premier League sides, couldn't she?
Living west of Offa's Dyke I get subjected to Leanne Wood far too much on the news. Borrowing a great phrase from our more northerly Celtic cousins, she's as thick as mince.
Surely you could just join the rest of us and enjoy her wonderful accent?
You're not threatened by her bonkers policies. (Assuming you don't live in Wales). She (not her accent) grates with me like fingernails down a blackboard. She once tried to give me a leaflet in Queen St in Cardiff and I gave my best withering look at her.
I do think May and Corbyn should have taken part in debates. Its disappointing that someone who aspires to rule our country doesn't think she can defend the policies she intends to pursue from the level of challenge such a debate throws up. I can understand the tactics but its really not right.
I stand by the fact that Osborne rebranding the 'Living Wage' was one of the most distasteful things he did. Completely unnecessary and downright damaging.
Not for the first time, I am impressed by Leanne Wood. She could get a transfer to one of the Premier League sides, couldn't she?
Living west of Offa's Dyke I get subjected to Leanne Wood far too much on the news. Borrowing a great phrase from our more northerly Celtic cousins, she's as thick as mince.
Surely you could just join the rest of us and enjoy her wonderful accent?
You're not threatened by her bonkers policies. (Assuming you don't live in Wales). She (not her accent) grates with me like fingernails down a blackboard. She once tried to give me a leaflet in Queen St in Cardiff and I gave my best withering look at her.
I'd much rather hear the dulcet tones of a North Walian accent - deepest Gwynedd. It has a clarity akin to a Moray accent.
FPT - that truly is terrific snobbery by Hugh Grant.
Being disliked by Hugh Grant will be a massive plus for May. People don't like posh boys much any more...
I'm shocked to learn that Hugh Grant read English Literature at New College, Oxford.
Don't you lot have standards over there?
Cambridge admitted Neil Hamilton. End. Of. Argument.
I see your Neil Hamilton and raise you a Jeffrey Archer.
Jeffrey Archer's cv is an elaborate version of the Chronicles of Narnia.
Ok, I raise you Reverend Underpants, Chris Bryant.
I went to a real university, but can I point out that Cambridge also gave a doctorate to Tristram 'I'm too thick to use Google' Hunt?
To give you some idea of his personal and professional standing, the Universities and Colleges Union is informally called the Useless Tristrams Union by its members (after he ignored their picket lines to lecture on Marxism).
Feck, Tristram didn’t just get a Ph D at Cambridge.
He was a Fellow in History at King’s College. He was able to teach and research without knowing how to use Google.
Comments
"Tim can cry about it all he wants"
Candidates Lab/Con/LD/No Desc
2015 result
Lab 1568/1208 UKIP 657 Con 481/303 Libertarian 90
https://twitter.com/peston/status/865278178641797121
FOREWORD
Two forewords, really?
Strong and stable
Why is Great Meritocracy capitalised? Is it an actual thing and not a concept?
FIVE GIANT CHALLENGES
An interesting idea to summarise the chief challenges facing the country, to inform what they believe the manifesto will address.
Governing from the mainstream is a good idea in general, although the bits about ‘elites in Westminster’ is a nonsense, given who this is coming from.
Because Conservatism is not and never has been the philosophy described by caricaturists - That’s true, although I don’t know why you would make me think of the caricatures by bringing it up.
A STRONG ECONOMY THAT WORKS FOR EVERYONE
This is basically the same title as the Labour and LD economy sections.
Ten years after the banking crisis, the deficit is back to where it was. That’s how you’re playing it, really? ‘Still work to do’ is putting it mildly when you are delaying for another 8/9 years.
We will therefore simplify the tax system - Sure you will.
Seems on the face of it to be more info on business regulation than the others.
Why has there not already been a review in the ‘Cost of Energy’?
when necessary, major shale planning decisions will be made the responsibility of the National Planning Regime - Probably necessary. Good plan.
Lot of similar sounding stuff on investment as with Labour and LD, just different numbers.
Move functions of government to other cities? This is always treated as self-evidently a good idea, it is not explained much.
We will grant a free vote, on a government bill in government time, to give parliament the opportunity to decide the future of the Hunting Act. - Felt the need to specify you wouldn’t make a backbencher move it as a private members’ bill, but still so coy as to term it ‘decide the future of’?
First generation to leave the environment in a better state than inherited? Well, no way most MPs will be around to pay the price if that promise fails.
No Scottish referendum ‘at this time’? When then? ‘Until Brexit process has played out’ and only if ‘there is public consent for it to happen’. Unclear.
A much greater emphasis on the Union than the other manifestos.
Will ‘provide clarity’ on what devolution in England means, so all authorities ‘operate in a common framework’ – should have already been the case, but better than nothing.
Will not support mayors for rural counties.
I’m sure more than just the Conservative and Unionist Party delivered the Scotland Act 2012.
Rather confident the NI executive will be in place to be worked with.
Moving civil servants out of London, I’m still unclear why this will make government administration better.
Not repeal the Human Rights Act ‘while the process of Brexit is underway’ but ‘will consider human rights legal framework’ afterwards? So repeal it, but not now, and we don’t want to admit we will repeal it.
Similar to LDs on promoting Britain abroad.
Says will try to change rules on how aid money is spent internationally, and if that doesn’t work, change the law to allow to ‘use a better definition of development spending’. I don’t know what this means.
Oldest parliament of ‘large democracies’ –nice to not annoy the Tynwald by saying oldest of all.
Extending FPTP to PCC and Mayoral elections - Good idea? In other years, they might not have come first in some, and have needed transfers? Or do they assume they’d always come of worst in transfers?
Not reducing voting age.
IDs at voting – I’m torn, as I like the trusting nature of our process, but it is open to abuse, and most people I speak to left and right who are not wonks are often astonished you do not need ID already.
House of Lords – ‘Comprehensive’ reform not a priority, but ‘ensure’ it fulfills its constitutional role. Only issue mentioned is size, leaves the door wide open for a variety of changes. Why even say it is not a priority? Who cares about it enough to want change, but is worried you will move too fast?
‘Historic falls in crime’ – not according to the other manifestos. I’d like some figures.
Serious Fraud Office into the NCA? I thought this had already happened.
Widen role of PCCs to help them cut crime? If they couldn’t already, what was the point? PCC already on Health and Wellbeing Board in my area, and it is a pointless talking shop.
Nuttall doing a great job for May here I think
Tories:
1. Scrap social care costs cap
2. Double lock on pensions
3. Free breakfast at primary school
4. 3rd runway at Heathrow
Labour
1. GBP 10/hr minimum wage
2. Nationalisation
3. No university tuition fees
Lib Dems:
1. Brexit 2nd referendum
2. Reverse Welfare cuts
3. Legalise cannabis
UKIP
1. Burqa ban
2. Muslim school moratorium
If you took away the party name from the Tory manifesto, my bet is that few seeing it in isolation would have guessed it to be to a Tory slate.
Sturgeon is superb in these situations.
Cameron seemed to care a great deal about social injustices, this talks the talk similarly.
Contrary to what some people allege, official research shows that slightly more children from ordinary, working class families attend selective schools as a percentage of the school intake compared to nonselective schools - One of the few statements they have so far acknowledged what others think about a policy, clearly they are worried that people do not like the policy due to misunderstanding.
Bold to include the figure immigration is at.
Not as focused as much on LGBT issues, but more info on several injustice issues.
A RESTORED CONTRACT BETWEEN THE GENERATIONS
Weak and woolly on the deficit – banking on people not believing the others, rather than believing their own spiel.
Are keeping Triple lock until 2020, then double lock.
Why maintain all other pensioner benefits if it is so necessary to means test winter fuel payments?
8 billion over five years in NHS seems like barely anything next to Labour’s over 30 billion.
Overseas people paying will be pilloried by many, but is probably popular.
‘Powers to act’ if developers do not act on planning permission. How? Currently permission expires after a number of years if you do not start does it not?
As unrealistic on housing as the others.
Not promising new towns or garden cities?
Same further goodies on childcare as the others
PROSPERITY AND SECURITY IN A DIGITAL AGE
Philosophical challenges? Oh no.
More info on digital stuff than the others.
Government seeking to control the internet.
Solid design, simple to understand the key messages, theme of measured progress. There is no mention of Labour, Corbyn or the opposition in the document.
COMPARISON
Bit wordy compared to the LD one, but clearer than Labour’s – too much like mini essays for quick digestion. Unlike the others, the specific section on Brexit is some ways in not near the start, great focus on the UK Union and economic matters. Not much detail on funding matters though.
Labour manifesto mentioned Tories constantly, very strongly. LDs mentioned them occasionally, in disappointment mostly, but not as strongly. Tories mention neither.
LD manifesto seems the most detailed, but no one will ever know to assess it as the party is dead if the polls are right.
Farron is trying to emulate Cleggy in 2010 but not succeeding
Finishes with another reference to Corbyn too. Not a mention of Kezia anywhere. Curious.
Whereas with this debate you have a long time to think while everyone else speaks.
desperate efforts by libdem tweeting team to get that trending.... it all reminds me of this
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/budget-2015-12-funniest-reactions-5363889
Bryant is clearly a bit odd, and not exactly the most engaging of politicians, but he doesn't come across as entirely thick. Unlike one or two Cambridge graduates....
One of the few bright spots in my working life is listening to them get things so completely wrong at election/referendum time.
WillS.
1) She is winning so why risk any things, even if on balance she will probably pick up more support than she looses, she does not need the risk.
2) She is not a very good Leader or strategist so has missed an opportunity (I know she is a popular PM at the moment, but I think she has been mostly lucky)
While I accept it may be a bit of the former, I think it is mostly the latter.
https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/865290912959746048
https://twitter.com/labourpress/status/865292008465854464
https://twitter.com/LibDemPress/status/865292799687708672
Just a shame there isn't more competition to represent it on the council.
Which is partly why I am annoyed that we are not going to see that.
https://twitter.com/GdnPolitics/status/865282170071461888
The LDs and SNP want to get rid of the freeze on benefits
Whereas Labour isn't proposing to do so.
Can only assume they completely forgot the issue.
Must be catching
He was a Fellow in History at King’s College. He was able to teach and research without knowing how to use Google.