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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Preview May 18th 2017 (T-21 days until Elect

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  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,384
    I see the Mirror clearly believe the Tories are centre left :lol:
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Knowing the miiror,it's probably all of them ;-)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    Pong said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    So.. when are the next polls due? Asking for a friend....

    Saturday.

    Deffo having a YouGov and Opinium.

    Likely to see ORB and ICM.

    I'm hoping we might see at least one Scotland only poll. But that maybe next week.
    For the first time today I'm glad I've not got a big open buy position on the Tory spreads. First big error day from the Tories this election imo the wheel of Dementia lottery.
    I kinda regret closing my con seats buy @ 388. It was too soon. Could have doubled my 10x stake profit if I'd have left it until after the locals/mayorals.

    Oh well.

    I have a suspicion the con manifesto damage will hit con safe seats while making next to no difference in the new marginals.
    Heh That is about where I closed my position out at.
  • PaganPagan Posts: 259
    BigRich said:

    Pagan said:

    BigRich said:

    Pagan said:

    BigRich said:

    Pagan said:

    It is getting impossible to see who to vote for

    Tory centre left
    Labour loon left
    lib dems no idea what they stand for except they are left of labour
    Greens absolutely stupidly left

    As a socially liberal (classic sense) and economic liberal(classic sense) there is no party here for me

    There is the libertarian party UK

    https://libertarianpartyuk.com/

    yes used to be a member when chris mounsie was in charge then andrew withers took over and he was a crook

    I don't know very much about the party, expt they seem more minarchists that anarchist, they don't seem to be presenting themselves very well. but as I'm not a member I'm not going to critaissi to much.

    I think the old Liberals (those who did not join the libdems) are still around I think they are sound, but probably wont be standing in many places.
    they were largely a joke after chris stepped down
    Pity, I am getting so frustrated with both the con and LibDems, I could just about see myself standing as a Libertarian Party so that I could at lest once in a my life vote for a position I fully believed in.
    Britain is a left wing country, what they call hard right is just soft left
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 733
    edited May 2017
    I make it 49/8/1/1 seats on Baxter with those Scottish figures. Moray still going blue; LD and Lab keep what they have.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,280
    This is quite interesting - apparently no-one in the focus group had heard 'strong and stable' this election.We who are interested feel the politicians are repeating themselves ad absurdum, but most people are paying far less attention.
    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/life-outside-bubble
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,144
    Did someone trigger a Klaxon? :smiley:
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    Decent performance by Sturgeon tonight + Tory Dementia blunder could mean the SNP keeps the Tory gains down in Scotland to a modest level.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    LDs still down. Incredible they still have as reasonable a chance of 2-3 there as much as in England.
  • marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 10m10 minutes ago

    Enfield Lock (Enfield) result:
    LAB: 63.8% (+12.7)
    CON: 28.8% (+13.3)
    GRN: 3.1% (-6.4)
    UKIP: 2.7% (-15.0)
    LDEM: 1.6% (+1.6)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,144
    Cookie said:

    This is quite interesting - apparently no-one in the focus group had heard 'strong and stable' this election.We who are interested feel the politicians are repeating themselves ad absurdum, but most people are paying far less attention.
    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/life-outside-bubble

    I remember something vaguely about a long term economic plan.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,683
    Swing of 11% from SNP to Tory since 2015 which would see the Tories win 8-10 seats and add 16-20 to their majority, it could be Scotland which takes May's majority over the 100+ mark
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069

    Danny565 said:

    "LIBERAL Democrat leader Tim Farron was dubbed “a s*** candidate” today – by a school kid he tried to high-five.

    The party boss, who has watched his support in the polls drop to as little as 8 per cent, smiled for the cameras and glad-handed local officials.

    He then turned to a group of kids from the local primary in Staveley, Cumbria, and began high-fiving them.

    But there were giggles from the youngsters when one of them loudly announced: “He’s a s*** candidate.”"


    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3597721/lib-dem-leader-tim-farron-branded-a-s-candidate-by-a-primary-school-kid-he-tried-to-high-five/

    Why is "shit" asterisked??? :lol:
    watch your language.. think of your fan club!
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    DavidL said:

    I do think May and Corbyn should have taken part in debates. Its disappointing that someone who aspires to rule our country doesn't think she can defend the policies she intends to pursue from the level of challenge such a debate throws up. I can understand the tactics but its really not right.

    But no different to Wilson , Heath, Thatcher, Major & Blair in earlier elections!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,348
    Polls are snapshots etc, but let this sink in again were it to happen

    Times/YouGov Scotland W'minster VI Poll. SNP 42% (+1) Con 29% (+1) Lab 19% (+1) LD 6% (-1) Grn 2% (-1) UKIP 1% (-1) changes from 3 weeks ago

    In terms of seats SNP 47 (-9) Con 8 (+7) Con gains inc Moray, Perth & North Perthshire and East Renfrewshire
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Pagan said:

    BigRich said:

    Pagan said:

    BigRich said:

    Pagan said:

    BigRich said:

    Pagan said:

    It is getting impossible to see who to vote for

    Tory centre left
    Labour loon left
    lib dems no idea what they stand for except they are left of labour
    Greens absolutely stupidly left

    As a socially liberal (classic sense) and economic liberal(classic sense) there is no party here for me

    There is the libertarian party UK

    https://libertarianpartyuk.com/

    yes used to be a member when chris mounsie was in charge then andrew withers took over and he was a crook

    I don't know very much about the party, expt they seem more minarchists that anarchist, they don't seem to be presenting themselves very well. but as I'm not a member I'm not going to critaissi to much.

    I think the old Liberals (those who did not join the libdems) are still around I think they are sound, but probably wont be standing in many places.
    they were largely a joke after chris stepped down
    Pity, I am getting so frustrated with both the con and LibDems, I could just about see myself standing as a Libertarian Party so that I could at lest once in a my life vote for a position I fully believed in.
    Britain is a left wing country, what they call hard right is just soft left
    Left v Right doesn't really interest me, its the normal battleground so I flow it, but its just two variations of group think. Its the Authoritarian V liberty that exits me, and yes Economic liberty has normally been a good battering ram to gain other freedoms, but it dose not make right wing good, left wing bad by itself.

  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    I don't think Brillo likes the green lady...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    edited May 2017
    marke09 said:

    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 10m10 minutes ago

    Enfield Lock (Enfield) result:
    LAB: 63.8% (+12.7)
    CON: 28.8% (+13.3)
    GRN: 3.1% (-6.4)
    UKIP: 2.7% (-15.0)
    LDEM: 1.6% (+1.6)

    Believed to be close, eh?

    Note: Tory gain actually 12.8 on Harry's figures. BNP 6 last time.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    I do think May and Corbyn should have taken part in debates. Its disappointing that someone who aspires to rule our country doesn't think she can defend the policies she intends to pursue from the level of challenge such a debate throws up. I can understand the tactics but its really not right.

    But no different to Wilson , Heath, Thatcher, Major & Blair in earlier elections!
    To be fair, I think Major did want to debate, it may have been tactical, as in three is no thing to loos by trying, but at least he did try. IIRC
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 733
    NeilVW said:

    I make it 49/8/1/1 seats on Baxter with those Scottish figures. Moray still going blue; LD and Lab keep what they have.

    Ian Murray hangs on by about 600 votes over the Tories, becomes a tight 3-way marginal (34/33/28%).
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    I don't think Brillo likes the green lady...

    Portillo is so ridiculously good on this programme
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,683
    edited May 2017

    Polls are snapshots etc, but let this sink in again were it to happen

    Times/YouGov Scotland W'minster VI Poll. SNP 42% (+1) Con 29% (+1) Lab 19% (+1) LD 6% (-1) Grn 2% (-1) UKIP 1% (-1) changes from 3 weeks ago

    In terms of seats SNP 47 (-9) Con 8 (+7) Con gains inc Moray, Perth & North Perthshire and East Renfrewshire

    Angus Robertson losing his seat to a Tory would be the highlight of election night for me if it happens
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited May 2017

    The labour MP on QT clapped the Green man ranting on about tuition fees and ditching them. How progressive.

    Its interesting that the Scottish free tuition fees policy which is starving Scottish college and universities of funding and has led to cuts in college/Uni places for Scots students is now getting getting far more UK wide traction in political debate. It has benefited the most well off students while stopping some of the poorest from entering further education.

    It is about time that the scandal of this appalling failed policy in Scotland got the attention its deserves, ditto the SNP Government's whole record on education over the last decade. There is absolutely nothing progressive about the current system of further education funding in Scotland.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    isam said:

    I don't think Brillo likes the green lady...

    Portillo is so ridiculously good on this programme
    He's detached enough to be worth listening to, Balls is still working for angles for his side whilst that Natalie ex-leader got slapped down for mentioning where she's campaigning and breaking electoral rules on the show!
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 733
    Different Electoral Calculus seat count probably because he allows for Greens not standing - re-allocates some to SNP and hence they hold on to an extra couple of seats.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    Why are the Greens even being polled in Scotland.

    They're in 3 seats. Are Yorkshire First prompted in England ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    fitalass said:

    The labour MP on QT clapped the Green man ranting on about tuition fees and ditching them. How progressive.

    Its interesting that the Scottish free tuition fees policy which is starving Scottish college and universities of funding and has led to cuts in college/Uni places for Scots students is now getting getting far more UK wide traction in political debate. It has benefited the most well off students while stopping some of the poorest from entering further education.

    It is about time that the scandal of this appalling failed policy in Scotland got the attention its deserves, ditto the SNP Government's whole record on education over the last decade. There is absolutely nothing progressive about the current system of further education funding in Scotland.
    Forgive me but Universities did fine before tuition fees. Why can't they now ?
  • PaganPagan Posts: 259
    Pagan said:

    BigRich said:

    Pagan said:

    BigRich said:

    Pagan said:

    BigRich said:

    Pagan said:

    It is getting impossible to see who to vote for

    Tory centre left
    Labour loon left
    lib dems no idea what they stand for except they are left of labour
    Greens absolutely stupidly left

    As a socially liberal (classic sense) and economic liberal(classic sense) there is no party here for me

    There is the libertarian party UK

    https://libertarianpartyuk.com/

    yes used to be a member when chris mounsie was in charge then andrew withers took over and he was a crook

    I don't know very much about the party, expt they seem more minarchists that anarchist, they don't seem to be presenting themselves very well. but as I'm not a member I'm not going to critaissi to much.

    I think the old Liberals (those who did not join the libdems) are still around I think they are sound, but probably wont be standing in many places.
    they were largely a joke after chris stepped down
    Pity, I am getting so frustrated with both the con and LibDems, I could just about see myself standing as a Libertarian Party so that I could at lest once in a my life vote for a position I fully believed in.
    Britain is a left wing country, what they call hard right is just soft left
    While I agree left and right dont really matter in themselves the left have always been anti liberty and you need look no further than claire perry for that
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    NeilVW said:

    Different Electoral Calculus seat count probably because he allows for Greens not standing - re-allocates some to SNP and hence they hold on to an extra couple of seats.

    Falkirk, Glasgow North are deep SNP holds. North and Leith is the 3rd Labour gain but a remote target

    Exclusion and reallocation of the green VI for seat purposes is fine.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    So.. when are the next polls due? Asking for a friend....

    Saturday.

    Deffo having a YouGov and Opinium.

    Likely to see ORB and ICM.

    I'm hoping we might see at least one Scotland only poll. But that maybe next week.
    For the first time today I'm glad I've not got a big open buy position on the Tory spreads. First big error day from the Tories this election imo the wheel of Dementia lottery.
    Throw in the Grammar schools policy and fox hunting too! If May was facing a half decent Labour leader with a viable election manifesto she would be leaking votes outside the English shires!
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,736
    Fieldwork dates for YouGov Scotland?

    On face of it a disappointing poll for Lab - up just one point and no closer to Con - no sign of the improvement found in recent GB polls.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,384

    Danny565 said:

    "LIBERAL Democrat leader Tim Farron was dubbed “a s*** candidate” today – by a school kid he tried to high-five.

    The party boss, who has watched his support in the polls drop to as little as 8 per cent, smiled for the cameras and glad-handed local officials.

    He then turned to a group of kids from the local primary in Staveley, Cumbria, and began high-fiving them.

    But there were giggles from the youngsters when one of them loudly announced: “He’s a s*** candidate.”"


    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3597721/lib-dem-leader-tim-farron-branded-a-s-candidate-by-a-primary-school-kid-he-tried-to-high-five/

    Why is "shit" asterisked??? :lol:
    watch your language.. think of your fan club!
    "It's OK to say "shit" - it ain't against God!"
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/12/harrow-west-can-labour-hold-its-lucky-seat-of-20-years

    Just noticed my constituency, Harrow West, is featuring on the guardian's specific seat profile project. First time it's really become a marginal seat, makes my choice of who to vote for actually important for once. The demographics here may affect the result beyond the national picture. Highly ethnically diverse borough, which should help Labour, but a large part of that is hindus rather than muslims, and that vote is less solidly Labour. Gareth Thomas has been a very local focused MP since 1997, as far as I know pretty popular. I have a feeling this may be one of the marginals that bucks the trends and remains a Labour hold.
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 733
    edited May 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    NeilVW said:

    Different Electoral Calculus seat count probably because he allows for Greens not standing - re-allocates some to SNP and hence they hold on to an extra couple of seats.

    Falkirk, Glasgow North are deep SNP holds. North and Leith is the 3rd Labour gain but a remote target

    Exclusion and reallocation of the green VI for seat purposes is fine.
    On this poll Baxter has Edi N&L as SNP hold by 1.5 over Con - Nats won't be pleased with Greens if they lose that one.

    Elsewhere SNP hold East Lothian by 0.8 over Con, and Edi SW by 0.7 over Con.

    So many seats could be an absolute toss-up - fascinating.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,683
    edited May 2017
    fitalass said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    So.. when are the next polls due? Asking for a friend....

    Saturday.

    Deffo having a YouGov and Opinium.

    Likely to see ORB and ICM.

    I'm hoping we might see at least one Scotland only poll. But that maybe next week.
    For the first time today I'm glad I've not got a big open buy position on the Tory spreads. First big error day from the Tories this election imo the wheel of Dementia lottery.
    Throw in the Grammar schools policy and fox hunting too! If May was facing a half decent Labour leader with a viable election manifesto she would be leaking votes outside the English shires!
    A plurality of voters back the grammar schools policy and a majority of Tories and most staunch anti fox hunting voters are not Tories anyway while those that back it will work hard for the Tory cause and as ITV news showed today in marginal Labour Halifax where the average house price is about £105 000 voters would keep almost all of their assets even if they needed social care, that would be less so in the Tory South East but they will never vote for Corbyn Labour anyway and in any case if they don't need social care they already get to pass on £1 million to their kids inheritance tax free thanks to Osborne last April
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Pong said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    So.. when are the next polls due? Asking for a friend....

    Saturday.

    Deffo having a YouGov and Opinium.

    Likely to see ORB and ICM.

    I'm hoping we might see at least one Scotland only poll. But that maybe next week.
    For the first time today I'm glad I've not got a big open buy position on the Tory spreads. First big error day from the Tories this election imo the wheel of Dementia lottery.
    I kinda regret closing my con seats buy @ 388. It was too soon. Could have doubled my 10x stake profit if I'd have left it until after the locals/mayorals.

    Oh well.

    I have a suspicion the con manifesto damage will hit con safe seats while making next to no difference in the new marginals.
    Just remember how Blair and Brown got away with ditching tax relief on mortgages and dividends from pension funds etc back in the early years of their Government without it denting their polling or electoral success at the time. While they went after perks enjoyed by middle income families and introduced tuition fees, I suspect that only a Conservative Government riding high in the polls and facing Jeremy Corbyn's Labour party is going to be able challenge and do away with some of the long held perks enjoyed by the most wooed UK electoral group, the over 60's.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,683
    Pulpstar said:

    Decent performance by Sturgeon tonight + Tory Dementia blunder could mean the SNP keeps the Tory gains down in Scotland to a modest level.
    Tory Dementia 'blunder' has no impact in Scotland as Holyrood sets social care funding and 1 man and his dog watched the ITV debate
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    HYUFD said:

    fitalass said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    So.. when are the next polls due? Asking for a friend....

    Saturday.

    Deffo having a YouGov and Opinium.

    Likely to see ORB and ICM.

    I'm hoping we might see at least one Scotland only poll. But that maybe next week.
    For the first time today I'm glad I've not got a big open buy position on the Tory spreads. First big error day from the Tories this election imo the wheel of Dementia lottery.
    Throw in the Grammar schools policy and fox hunting too! If May was facing a half decent Labour leader with a viable election manifesto she would be leaking votes outside the English shires!
    A plurality of voters back the grammar schools policy and a majority of Tories and most staunch anti fox hunting voters are not Tories anyway while those that back it will work hard for the Tory cause and as ITV news showed today in marginal Labour Halifax where the average house price is about £105 000 voters would keep almost all of their assets even if they needed social care, that would be less so in the Tory South East but they will never vote for Corbyn Labour anyway and in any case if they don't need social care they already get to pass on £1 million to their kids inheritance tax free thanks to Osborne last April
    We have just had two very toxic and divisive referendums, Indy and Brexit. And it is a serious political misjudgment to bring back these two equally toxic and divisive policies, even under the cover of high poll ratings and a Corbyn led Labour party in complete disarray.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,683
    edited May 2017
    fitalass said:

    HYUFD said:

    fitalass said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    So.. when are the next polls due? Asking for a friend....

    Saturday.

    Deffo having a YouGov and Opinium.

    Likely to see ORB and ICM.

    I'm hoping we might see at least one Scotland only poll. But that maybe next week.
    For the first time today I'm glad I've not got a big open buy position on the Tory spreads. First big error day from the Tories this election imo the wheel of Dementia lottery.
    Throw in the Grammar schools policy and fox hunting too! If May was facing a half decent Labour leader with a viable election manifesto she would be leaking votes outside the English shires!
    A plurality of voters back the grammar schools policy and a majority of Tories and most staunch anti fox hunting voters are not Tories anyway while those that back it will work hard for the Tory cause and as ITV news showed today in marginal Labour Halifax where the average house price is about £105 000 voters would keep almost all of their assets even if they needed social care, that would be less so in the Tory South East but they will never vote for Corbyn Labour anyway and in any case if they don't need social care they already get to pass on £1 million to their kids inheritance tax free thanks to Osborne last April
    We have just had two very toxic and divisive referendums, Indy and Brexit. And it is a serious political misjudgment to bring back these two equally toxic and divisive policies, even under the cover of high poll ratings and a Corbyn led Labour party in complete disarray.
    In your leftwing opinion, grammars motivate Tory voters and former UKIP voters and those Tory voters who tend to really care about fox hunting back it strongly, Tory voters who mildly dislike fox hunting do not vote because of it unlike Tory supporters of fox hunting, passionate antis on both issues will already be largely voting Labour
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    HYUFD said:

    fitalass said:

    HYUFD said:

    fitalass said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    So.. when are the next polls due? Asking for a friend....

    Saturday.

    Deffo having a YouGov and Opinium.

    Likely to see ORB and ICM.

    I'm hoping we might see at least one Scotland only poll. But that maybe next week.
    For the first time today I'm glad I've not got a big open buy position on the Tory spreads. First big error day from the Tories this election imo the wheel of Dementia lottery.
    Throw in the Grammar schools policy and fox hunting too! If May was facing a half decent Labour leader with a viable election manifesto she would be leaking votes outside the English shires!
    A plurality of voters back the grammar schools policy and a majority of Tories and most staunch anti fox hunting voters are not Tories anyway while those that back it will work hard for the Tory cause and as ITV news showed today in marginal Labour Halifax where the average house price is about £105 000 voters would keep almost all of their assets even if they needed social care, that would be less so in the Tory South East but they will never vote for Corbyn Labour anyway and in any case if they don't need social care they already get to pass on £1 million to their kids inheritance tax free thanks to Osborne last April
    We have just had two very toxic and divisive referendums, Indy and Brexit. And it is a serious political misjudgment to bring back these two equally toxic and divisive policies, even under the cover of high poll ratings and a Corbyn led Labour party in complete disarray.
    In your leftwing opinion, grammars motivate Tory voters and former UKIP voters and those Tory voters who tend to really care about fox hunting back it strongly, Tory voters who mildly dislike fox hunting do not vote because of it unlike Tory supporters of fox hunting, passionate antis on both issues will already be largely voting Labour
    If @fitalass is left wing, then I'm Jeremy Corbyn !
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited May 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    Decent performance by Sturgeon tonight + Tory Dementia blunder could mean the SNP keeps the Tory gains down in Scotland to a modest level.
    We too have a very real growing problem on the issue of social care provision up here in Scotland, and now exacerbated by previous council tax freeze and SNP imposed cuts to local council funding. You saw a TV debate tonight that simple demonstrated that Sturgeon can talk the talk, but that skill is wearing very thin up here because her Government has failed to walk the walk when it comes to delivering on domestic issues at Holyrood. Hence the growing popularity of Ruth Davidson and the Scottish Conservatives as the main opposition to her Government and its policies.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    NeilVW said:

    NeilVW said:

    I make it 49/8/1/1 seats on Baxter with those Scottish figures. Moray still going blue; LD and Lab keep what they have.

    Ian Murray hangs on by about 600 votes over the Tories, becomes a tight 3-way marginal (34/33/28%).
    I would have agreed that Ian Murray was a dead cert to hang onto his seat forty eight hours ago, but that was before Kezia Dugdale suspended those Labour Aberdeen City councillors who have formed a coalition with a resurgent Conservative grouping. Be in no doubt that the political optics of her decision to punish them in this way while allowing Labour councillors to form a coalition with the SNP in Fife looks terrible up here when her candidates in seats like Murray's are relying heavily on tactical voting from Scottish Conservative voters.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    Hmm I note the Mail/Express aren't sticking the dementia tax on the front pages. They know how potentially toxic it is and don't want to put May at risk with adverse coverage.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,144
    Pulpstar said:

    Hmm I note the Mail/Express aren't sticking the dementia tax on the front pages. They know how potentially toxic it is and don't want to put May at risk with adverse coverage.

    Bloody MSM!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,894
    kle4 said:

    LDs still down. Incredible they still have as reasonable a chance of 2-3 there as much as in England.
    Remember the LDs were at FIVE PERCENT nationally in the last Holyrood elections, when they picked up two seats. Unionist tactical voting just made it very, very efficient.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Indeed - The Fuhrer would be so pleased!
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited May 2017
    HYUFD said:

    Polls are snapshots etc, but let this sink in again were it to happen

    Times/YouGov Scotland W'minster VI Poll. SNP 42% (+1) Con 29% (+1) Lab 19% (+1) LD 6% (-1) Grn 2% (-1) UKIP 1% (-1) changes from 3 weeks ago

    In terms of seats SNP 47 (-9) Con 8 (+7) Con gains inc Moray, Perth & North Perthshire and East Renfrewshire

    Angus Robertson losing his seat to a Tory would be the highlight of election night for me if it happens
    Me too. ;) But it remains a tough ask of our excellent candidate who is already a rising star of the Conservative MSP group at Holyrood. If Douglas Ross pulls off this win, then Westminsters gain would be a loss to the Holyrood Parliament.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    BigRich said:

    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    I do think May and Corbyn should have taken part in debates. Its disappointing that someone who aspires to rule our country doesn't think she can defend the policies she intends to pursue from the level of challenge such a debate throws up. I can understand the tactics but its really not right.

    But no different to Wilson , Heath, Thatcher, Major & Blair in earlier elections!
    To be fair, I think Major did want to debate, it may have been tactical, as in three is no thing to loos by trying, but at least he did try. IIRC
    Major was happy to debate with Blair in 1997 when he was well behind but refused to debate with Kinnock in 1992
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited May 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    fitalass said:

    The labour MP on QT clapped the Green man ranting on about tuition fees and ditching them. How progressive.

    Its interesting that the Scottish free tuition fees policy which is starving Scottish college and universities of funding and has led to cuts in college/Uni places for Scots students is now getting getting far more UK wide traction in political debate. It has benefited the most well off students while stopping some of the poorest from entering further education.

    It is about time that the scandal of this appalling failed policy in Scotland got the attention its deserves, ditto the SNP Government's whole record on education over the last decade. There is absolutely nothing progressive about the current system of further education funding in Scotland.
    Forgive me but Universities did fine before tuition fees. Why can't they now ?
    Universities across the UK require financial investment, and if you are going to raise aspirations as a Government and set targets so more students can attend those universities, then you need to increase that financial investment accordingly. Hence the fact that the Labour party in Government then had to introduce tuition fees to fund this expansion. Free tuition fees and less investment in colleges and universities in Scotland has seen a cut in places made available to Scottish students while our colleges and universities become ever more reliant in seeking students from South of the border who bring with them that 9K tuition fees to fill the gap in funding.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    fitalass said:

    NeilVW said:

    NeilVW said:

    I make it 49/8/1/1 seats on Baxter with those Scottish figures. Moray still going blue; LD and Lab keep what they have.

    Ian Murray hangs on by about 600 votes over the Tories, becomes a tight 3-way marginal (34/33/28%).
    I would have agreed that Ian Murray was a dead cert to hang onto his seat forty eight hours ago, but that was before Kezia Dugdale suspended those Labour Aberdeen City councillors who have formed a coalition with a resurgent Conservative grouping. Be in no doubt that the political optics of her decision to punish them in this way while allowing Labour councillors to form a coalition with the SNP in Fife looks terrible up here when her candidates in seats like Murray's are relying heavily on tactical voting from Scottish Conservative voters.
    Yes that seems an odd one. No reason SLAB shouldn't be able to form either an SNP or Tory coalition depending on local circumstance.
    Only an idiot rules those out particularly at a local level.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    fitalass said:

    Pulpstar said:

    fitalass said:

    The labour MP on QT clapped the Green man ranting on about tuition fees and ditching them. How progressive.

    Its interesting that the Scottish free tuition fees policy which is starving Scottish college and universities of funding and has led to cuts in college/Uni places for Scots students is now getting getting far more UK wide traction in political debate. It has benefited the most well off students while stopping some of the poorest from entering further education.

    It is about time that the scandal of this appalling failed policy in Scotland got the attention its deserves, ditto the SNP Government's whole record on education over the last decade. There is absolutely nothing progressive about the current system of further education funding in Scotland.
    Forgive me but Universities did fine before tuition fees. Why can't they now ?
    Universities across the UK require financial investment, and if you are going to raise aspirations as a Government and set targets so more students can attend those universities, then you need to increase that financial investment accordingly. Hence the fact that the Labour party in Government then had to introduce tuition fees to fund this expansion. Free tuition fees and less investment in colleges and universities in Scotland has seen a cut in places made available to Scottish students while our colleges and universities become ever more reliant in seeking students from South of the border who bring with them that 9K tuition fees to fill the gap in funding.

    The big Blairite push for more uni places is and was an error. Most in the 20-40% that didn't previously head to Uni but now do are, I believe heading there so as to not be competitively disadvantaged to their peers.
    In addition the loan system will create a tremendous latent debt to the taxpayer south of the border whereas the SNP at least simply "pays as it goes" with their method..
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,727
    Pulpstar said:

    fitalass said:

    NeilVW said:

    NeilVW said:

    I make it 49/8/1/1 seats on Baxter with those Scottish figures. Moray still going blue; LD and Lab keep what they have.

    Ian Murray hangs on by about 600 votes over the Tories, becomes a tight 3-way marginal (34/33/28%).
    I would have agreed that Ian Murray was a dead cert to hang onto his seat forty eight hours ago, but that was before Kezia Dugdale suspended those Labour Aberdeen City councillors who have formed a coalition with a resurgent Conservative grouping. Be in no doubt that the political optics of her decision to punish them in this way while allowing Labour councillors to form a coalition with the SNP in Fife looks terrible up here when her candidates in seats like Murray's are relying heavily on tactical voting from Scottish Conservative voters.
    Yes that seems an odd one. No reason SLAB shouldn't be able to form either an SNP or Tory coalition depending on local circumstance.
    Only an idiot rules those out particularly at a local level.
    Kezia Dugdale is a fool. No Scottish council can operate without coalitions.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,234
    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    fitalass said:

    NeilVW said:

    NeilVW said:

    I make it 49/8/1/1 seats on Baxter with those Scottish figures. Moray still going blue; LD and Lab keep what they have.

    Ian Murray hangs on by about 600 votes over the Tories, becomes a tight 3-way marginal (34/33/28%).
    I would have agreed that Ian Murray was a dead cert to hang onto his seat forty eight hours ago, but that was before Kezia Dugdale suspended those Labour Aberdeen City councillors who have formed a coalition with a resurgent Conservative grouping. Be in no doubt that the political optics of her decision to punish them in this way while allowing Labour councillors to form a coalition with the SNP in Fife looks terrible up here when her candidates in seats like Murray's are relying heavily on tactical voting from Scottish Conservative voters.
    Yes that seems an odd one. No reason SLAB shouldn't be able to form either an SNP or Tory coalition depending on local circumstance.
    Only an idiot rules those out particularly at a local level.
    Kezia Dugdale is a fool. No Scottish council can operate without coalitions.
    She evidently prefers the 'purity of opposition' to 'the will of the people'
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,144
    New thread!
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited May 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    fitalass said:

    NeilVW said:

    NeilVW said:

    I make it 49/8/1/1 seats on Baxter with those Scottish figures. Moray still going blue; LD and Lab keep what they have.

    Ian Murray hangs on by about 600 votes over the Tories, becomes a tight 3-way marginal (34/33/28%).
    I would have agreed that Ian Murray was a dead cert to hang onto his seat forty eight hours ago, but that was before Kezia Dugdale suspended those Labour Aberdeen City councillors who have formed a coalition with a resurgent Conservative grouping. Be in no doubt that the political optics of her decision to punish them in this way while allowing Labour councillors to form a coalition with the SNP in Fife looks terrible up here when her candidates in seats like Murray's are relying heavily on tactical voting from Scottish Conservative voters.
    Yes that seems an odd one. No reason SLAB shouldn't be able to form either an SNP or Tory coalition depending on local circumstance.
    Only an idiot rules those out particularly at a local level.
    Kezia's decision to issue an ultimatum to those Aberdeen Labour councillors then placed her in a lose lose position. She not only caused a rift within her own party due to that decision, she then left herself looking even weaker as their decision to defy her further undermined her authority as a Leader. This story totally dominated the Scottish news cycle up here last night, and her attempt to try to claim that she wouldn't countenance any coalitions with parties imposing austerity looked bloody stupid when she allowed that Lab/SNP coalition in Fife while its an SNP Government at Holyrood that has imposed cuts to local council funding and increased council taxes. By the way, Kezia's actions against her own Labour councillors also managed to totally knock another bad day at the Holyrood Office for the SNP Government off the news as well.

    That the Aberdeen South Labour candidate initially voiced his backing for Kezia Dugdale's stance on suspending those Labour councillors via a tweet before then deleting it speaks volumes. I am assuming that he quickly realised like other Labour candidates in similar seats that this was absolutely toxic for him if he was seeking to hang onto pro Union Labour voters while trying to attract pro Union voters from other parties to vote tactically for him to unseat the SNP. And the Libdems didn't have their blushes spared either, one of their small group of councillors immediately announced their defection to the Independent group that has formed the new Coalition with SLab and the Scottish Conservatives yesterday as well.

    Ultimately, any damage caused to SLab by the 'Red Tory' tag during the Indy Ref campaign has already been done. A huge and totally unnecessary strategic error by Kezia and her team up here in Scotland.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    BigRich said:

    Pagan said:

    BigRich said:

    Pagan said:

    It is getting impossible to see who to vote for

    Tory centre left
    Labour loon left
    lib dems no idea what they stand for except they are left of labour
    Greens absolutely stupidly left

    As a socially liberal (classic sense) and economic liberal(classic sense) there is no party here for me

    There is the libertarian party UK

    https://libertarianpartyuk.com/

    yes used to be a member when chris mounsie was in charge then andrew withers took over and he was a crook

    I don't know very much about the party, expt they seem more minarchists that anarchist, they don't seem to be presenting themselves very well. but as I'm not a member I'm not going to critaissi to much.

    I think the old Liberals (those who did not join the libdems) are still around I think they are sound, but probably wont be standing in many places.
    I think the last Liberals lost their council seats in the recent locals.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253
    HYUFD said:

    Polls are snapshots etc, but let this sink in again were it to happen

    Times/YouGov Scotland W'minster VI Poll. SNP 42% (+1) Con 29% (+1) Lab 19% (+1) LD 6% (-1) Grn 2% (-1) UKIP 1% (-1) changes from 3 weeks ago

    In terms of seats SNP 47 (-9) Con 8 (+7) Con gains inc Moray, Perth & North Perthshire and East Renfrewshire

    Angus Robertson losing his seat to a Tory would be the highlight of election night for me if it happens
    The fisheries policy in the manifesto should help with this.
This discussion has been closed.