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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How the votes moved to UKIP and how they’ve moved away with CO

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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    SeanT said:

    A reminder of the Rallings Thrasher predictions:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/25/labour-predicted-to-lose-hundreds-of-seats-in-local-elections


    "They forecast nets gains of 115 seats for the Tories and 85 for the Lib Dems, and net losses of 75 for Labour and 105 for Ukip."

    Good guess on UKIP, but whoah elsewhere

    Tories have SO FAR gained 306, the LDs are DOWN by 22, and Labour have lost 141. So far.

    So in terms of seats the Tories are doing almost three times better than expected, Labour almost twice as bad.

    The 115 , I believe, was for England only.
    Yes, and my figures are also for England only. The Tories have gained 306 in ENGLAND ONLY
    OK. So Fisher got it right then. 450 overall. How does that square with the BBC / Sky / Thrasher GE 2017 projections ? I am puzzled.

    Are the Tories winning big in their own areas ?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Candidates on the stage in WM.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Street's done it!
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    DavidL said:

    Unionists in Scotland currently 250 + 198 + 67 = 515

    Indys 350+ 12 = 362.

    Smug.

    Thank goodness your drear leader didn't frame the 'No to a second referendum' local elections purely on the basis of votes for the Scottish Conservative and Unionist party.
    Well done for showing face on this difficult day. Understandably you sound deflated and off colour.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,063
    surbiton said:

    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    SeanT said:

    A reminder of the Rallings Thrasher predictions:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/25/labour-predicted-to-lose-hundreds-of-seats-in-local-elections


    "They forecast nets gains of 115 seats for the Tories and 85 for the Lib Dems, and net losses of 75 for Labour and 105 for Ukip."

    Good guess on UKIP, but whoah elsewhere

    Tories have SO FAR gained 306, the LDs are DOWN by 22, and Labour have lost 141. So far.

    So in terms of seats the Tories are doing almost three times better than expected, Labour almost twice as bad.

    The 115 , I believe, was for England only.
    Yes, and my figures are also for England only. The Tories have gained 306 in ENGLAND ONLY
    OK. So Fisher got it right then. 450 overall. How does that square with the BBC / Sky / Thrasher GE 2017 projections ? I am puzzled.

    Are the Tories winning big in their own areas ?
    If you accept the national % are the floor for Tories and ceiling for Labour, then using them for the extrapolation is labour's best case outcome...
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    RobinWiggsRobinWiggs Posts: 621
    STREET wins.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,977
    ANDY STREET!!!!
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    The gentleman from @NCPolitics speaks...

    Matt Singh‏ @MattSingh_

    1/ This whole "It's not Labour doing badly, it's the Tories gaining seats because of the UKIP collapse" spin is totally missing the point.
    2/ UKIP took votes almost equally from Labour and Tories from 2010-15. Polls said otherwise, but that's one the areas where they were wrong.
    3/ I illustrated that here. And if you consider pre-2010 voting, UKIP very likely took more from Labour
    4/ So if UKIP implodes, standing still is not neutral. Standing still is a disaster.
    5/ Just as importantly, these are the sorts of people whose votes Labour needs if it wants to govern, but has been haemorrhaging since 2005.
    6/ Of course, all of this is being viewed through the prism of Brexit. But the roots of it are far deeper.
    7/ Ultimately, a broad church of the centre-left has to include socially conservative votes as well as socially liberal ones.
    8/8 Which is why Labour's weakness is partly structural - it isn't solely down to the direction the party has taken since 2015.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,306

    Street's done it!

    :o OMG
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,306
    100+ majority nailed on!
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    DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Streets ahead in West Mids!
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,411
    stjohn said:

    Sean_F said:

    surbiton said:

    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    SeanT said:
    True. Enough to take 2 seats away from the SNP in the GE.
    I reckon they'll get a few more than that

    And you guys are in THIRD. lol. And you lost GLASGOW.

    Remember when Corbyn was going to "win back Scotland"?

    CHORTLE
    Corbyn is not my guy, you know that. Unfortunately, the Tories couldn't provide the killer blow. If Simon wins in West Midlands, that shows the Tories cannot win big cities.

    It is Farron you should worry about now.
    They can win a 140 seat majority without big cities. They just need the medium-sized cities and big towns, on top of their safe seats.

    SeanF. I'm guessing when you say "they" in reference to the Tories, rather than "we", it indicates you are still with UKIP?
    I'll be voting Conservative in this election.
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    walterwwalterw Posts: 71
    edited May 2017
    surbiton

    'It is Farron you should worry about now.'


    Just seen Farron complete with winning here placards on TV, has anyone told him he's lost 30 seats so far ?

    The Robert Hayward forecast was Lib Dems + 100 seats.

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    Arthur_PennyArthur_Penny Posts: 198
    edited May 2017
    Street Wins

    Birmingham

    Siôn Simon 10382
    Andy Street 7690
    Total rejected at the second stage 2988
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,162
    The power of the Curse remains strong.

    Oh well.
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    Andy Street....

    KERCHING!

    (and phew!)
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,411
    AndyJS said:

    At last year's local elections the shares in the West Midlands were Lab 47%, Con 28%.

    http://labourlist.org/2017/05/local-elections-liveblog/

    Today's result is a swing of 10% from Labour to Conservative, consistent with a national lead of almost 20%.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,765
    Finally, a chance for the PB Yoons to say 'I agree with John'.

    https://twitter.com/KirstyStricklan/status/860519639721418752
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    dixiedean said:

    justin124 said:

    TudorRose said:

    surbiton said:

    AndyJS said:

    Sky forecast: Con maj of 48 seats if people voted the same way in GE as locals.

    The polling companies are going to do more methodological changes. How do they square the above with the polls ?
    It is puzzling; the Sky forecast is consistent with the BBC projected vote share. But neither tally with the opinion polls or recent results in, for example, Copeland.
    I suspect the forecast to be a bit too clinical , but it is worth remembering that the change from May 2015 is a lot less dramatic than from May 2013 when these seats were last fought. The number of council seats changing hands would be far smaller were we able to use a May 2015 baseline. Beyond that the seats in Scotland and Wales were last fought in May 2012 - which was easily Labour's best year in the last Parliament.
    Does the very big vote share for Burnham affect the projected vote share? No one could seriously contemplate Labour getting 62% in Gtr Mcr at a General Election. Given it has the biggest population voting yesterday, does this seriously skew the figures?
    Birmingham should change that .
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,683
    Street 238,628 combined
    Simon 234,862 combined
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    WM Mayor: Combined vote:

    Andy Street: 1st 216,280 2nd 22,348 Total: 238,628
    Sion Simon: 1st 210,259 2nd 24,603 Total: 234,862

    Conservative victory
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 78,070
    Corbyn losing where never thought possible...
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Tories win WM mayor. Amazing.
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    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,181
    Sion Simon looks like he's about to cry. My heart goes out to him, not.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,128

    Street's done it!

    Sensational!
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 48,158
    Street
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,950
    edited May 2017
    Kin hells bells.

    I said last week if Andy Street wins Mrs May is on course for a majority of 150 plus
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Easy Street!!
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,683
    Street a big, big win for the West Midlands.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,063
    edited May 2017
    another tick in the win box today...

    so over to you Poch.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,058
    Andy Street Yes
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    ArtistArtist Posts: 1,887
    Labour needed a big hitter candidate. An MEP didn't cut it.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,080

    DavidL said:

    Unionists in Scotland currently 250 + 198 + 67 = 515

    Indys 350+ 12 = 362.

    Smug.

    Thank goodness your drear leader didn't frame the 'No to a second referendum' local elections purely on the basis of votes for the Scottish Conservative and Unionist party.
    A fair point but I am way more of a Unionist than I am a Tory. So I am quite content to put my own spin.
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    RobinWiggsRobinWiggs Posts: 621

    STREET wins.

    First! ;-)

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    WM Mayor: Combined vote:

    Andy Street: 1st 216,280 2nd 22,348 Total: 238,628
    Sion Simon: 1st 210,259 2nd 24,603 Total: 234,862

    Conservative victory

    The higher turnout in Solihull did it for him.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,397

    Kin hells bells.

    I said last week if Andy Street wins Mrs May is on course for a majority of 150 plus

    Can I be the first to say

    "Shortly there will be an election, in which the Tories will increase their majority."
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Barry Gardiner must be feeling like a total prat now after calling if for Simon on Sky News. Burnham's result in Manchester won't hide this catastrophe for Labour.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Is that team Blue’s first or second Mayoralty win? – Hard to follow for us part timers. :lol:
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    kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    What was that Barry Gardiner was saying LOL
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,211
    Andy Street: "Rebirth of a new urban Conservative agenda"
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,417

    Kin hells bells.

    I said last week if Andy Street wins Mrs May is on course for a majority of 150 plus

    Hmm. I agree in general, but personally I think some of Street's win is about him as a person, rather than Tory vote: ex John Lewis, obviously got ideas etc etc. Could run a city - he's run a business etc.
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    Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,176
    Fantastic WM result that the Tories could not have dreamed of weeks ago.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,162
    Mr. Eagles, that's Fourth Crusade territory (150 seat majority).
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,397

    Is that team Blue’s first or second Mayoralty win? – Hard to follow for us part timers. :lol:

    West of England
    Teeside
    West Midlands
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,411
    Chameleon said:

    Sion Simon looks like he's about to cry. My heart goes out to him, not.

    He lacked the necessary Brownian Blitzkreig.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,080
    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    Unionists in Scotland currently 250 + 198 + 67 = 515

    Indys 350+ 12 = 362.

    Smug.

    Kellner reads PB confirmed. :D
    Huh? Did he just say something similar?
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,793
    edited May 2017
    Won by A Street!
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,683

    Kin hells bells.

    I said last week if Andy Street wins Mrs May is on course for a majority of 150 plus

    Can I be the first to say

    "Shortly there will be an election, in which the Tories will increase their majority."
    Arf!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,306

    Is that team Blue’s first or second Mayoralty win? – Hard to follow for us part timers. :lol:

    Third :p
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    ArtistArtist Posts: 1,887

    Fantastic WM result that the Tories could not have dreamed of weeks ago.

    Street was the 2/5 favourite weeks ago
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    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    My first ever bet was on Street to win, a tiny £1 stake but i am chuffed.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 24,425
    LOL

    wee Mrs McTurnip looking pressured
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    STREET wins.

    First! ;-)

    *cough cough* ;-)
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,977
    Awesome news for the West Midlands, exactly the sort of person we should be encouraging into politics. Well done to Andy and all that worked to get him elected over the past six months.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,511

    WM Mayor: Combined vote:

    Andy Street: 1st 216,280 2nd 22,348 Total: 238,628
    Sion Simon: 1st 210,259 2nd 24,603 Total: 234,862

    Conservative victory

    Not a bad set of results for the Tories then, all told.
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    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,181
    Considering that there was no chance of letting Corbyn in this election and the Tories have surged in almost everywhere bar Labour ground zeros (Manc., Liverpool, Valleys) I can't imagine how this realistically could have gone much worse for Labour. As a holder of £20 on LDs to be 0-9 at the GE at 10-1 I'm also feeling quite hopeful.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,411
    The Conservatives carrying the West Midlands and Teesside are reminiscent of their results in 1976-78, but those were achieved in mid-term by an Opposition, not by the government.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,058

    Fantastic WM result that the Tories could not have dreamed of weeks ago.

    See Faisal Islam has not tweeted - must be in despair
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,950
    Just to put Andy Street's performance into context

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/860122076983775233
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 78,070
    Sandpit said:

    Awesome news for the West Midlands, exactly the sort of person we should be encouraging into politics. Well done to Andy and all that worked to get him elected over the past six months.

    And up against exactly the person who shouldn't be.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    WM Mayor: Combined vote:

    Andy Street: 1st 216,280 2nd 22,348 Total: 238,628
    Sion Simon: 1st 210,259 2nd 24,603 Total: 234,862

    Conservative victory

    Close:

    Andy 50.4%
    Sion 49.6%


    (They're Mayors - so they have to be known by their 1st names...)

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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,511

    Andy Street Yes

    And to be fair to him, his name and background probably made the difference.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,397
    Artist said:

    Fantastic WM result that the Tories could not have dreamed of weeks ago.

    Street was the 2/5 favourite weeks ago
    I got like 1.7 a couple of weeks ago, I don't think 2/5 is right.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693

    Kin hells bells.

    I said last week if Andy Street wins Mrs May is on course for a majority of 150 plus

    Hmm. I agree in general, but personally I think some of Street's win is about him as a person, rather than Tory vote: ex John Lewis, obviously got ideas etc etc. Could run a city - he's run a business etc.
    + a million quid.

    He's a decent candidate though. I'll give him his due.

    But let's not pretend it wasn't the million quid wot won it for him.

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    52% in WM voted Lab, LD, Green, Comm in the first round. Same sort of thing as Bristol.
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    Good on Andy Streets. Well deserved.

    So much for most of these metro mayoralties going to Labour!
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited May 2017

    Andy Street Yes

    And to be fair to him, his name and background probably made the difference.
    It was the million quid, David.

    ;)
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,950
    It is thanks to George Osborne and his plans for Metro Mayors we get another opportunity to laugh at Sion Simon.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    RobD said:

    Is that team Blue’s first or second Mayoralty win? – Hard to follow for us part timers. :lol:

    Third :p
    You jest Sir. - Hopefully Sion Simon will now disappear and stop blighting the body politic.
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    WM Mayor: Combined vote:

    Andy Street: 1st 216,280 2nd 22,348 Total: 238,628
    Sion Simon: 1st 210,259 2nd 24,603 Total: 234,862

    Conservative victory

    Not a bad set of results for the Tories then, all told.
    Scotland (30 of 32 councils):

    SNP 383 (-14)
    Con 260 (+152)
    Lab 230 (-115)
    Ind 164 (-23)
    LibDem 67 (-2)
    Green 12 (+2)
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,635
    edited May 2017
    I like the Guardian front page headline - "Andy Burnham elected Manchester Mayor....
    ... but Labour suffers heavy losses".
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 48,158
    LD seat change slowly clawing back towards overall break even.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,189
    The mayoral elections are the perfect illustration of the toxicity of Corbyn Labour. In all three that went to a second round Labour did not get enough transfers from LibDems and Greens to get over the line.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 78,070
    I think this should be posted for no particular reason...

    http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,189
    AndyJS said:

    52% in WM voted Lab, LD, Green, Comm in the first round. Same sort of thing as Bristol.

    And Tees Valley, no?

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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DavidL said:

    Unionists in Scotland currently 250 + 198 + 67 = 515

    Indys 350+ 12 = 362.

    Smug.

    Overall in 2012 was

    Unionist: 580
    Indy: 439
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,306
    IanB2 said:

    LD seat change slowly clawing back towards overall break even.

    Not sure if they are going to make it. Only 50 or so seats to come.
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    PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 712

    Just to put Andy Street's performance into context

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/860122076983775233

    Labour have gone from 49.8 to 49.6?
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Paul Waugh‏VERIFIED ACCOUNT @paulwaugh 2 mins2 minutes ago

    I'm told Sion Simon will have a punchy speech


    popcorn time.
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    Pong said:

    Kin hells bells.

    I said last week if Andy Street wins Mrs May is on course for a majority of 150 plus

    Hmm. I agree in general, but personally I think some of Street's win is about him as a person, rather than Tory vote: ex John Lewis, obviously got ideas etc etc. Could run a city - he's run a business etc.
    + a million quid.

    He's a decent candidate though. I'll give him his due.

    But let's not pretend it wasn't the million quid wot won it for him.

    Did Sion Simon not bother campaigning, then? Purely a word of mouth thing, was it?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,635

    WM Mayor: Combined vote:

    Andy Street: 1st 216,280 2nd 22,348 Total: 238,628
    Sion Simon: 1st 210,259 2nd 24,603 Total: 234,862

    Conservative victory

    Not a bad set of results for the Tories then, all told.
    Scotland (30 of 32 councils):

    SNP 383 (-14)
    Con 260 (+152)
    Lab 230 (-115)
    Ind 164 (-23)
    LibDem 67 (-2)
    Green 12 (+2)
    While it's an article of faith for some that Ruth Davidson's grin is fake, it looks quite convincing to me today.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,189
    Chameleon said:

    Considering that there was no chance of letting Corbyn in this election and the Tories have surged in almost everywhere bar Labour ground zeros (Manc., Liverpool, Valleys) I can't imagine how this realistically could have gone much worse for Labour. As a holder of £20 on LDs to be 0-9 at the GE at 10-1 I'm also feeling quite hopeful.

    The result in Scotland could certainly have been worse.

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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    AndyJS said:

    52% in WM voted Lab, LD, Green, Comm in the first round. Same sort of thing as Bristol.

    The idea that LD = Lab or "progressive" should be dead by now surely?

    Take Solihull. Street got 2,981 second preference votes many of which must have come from the Lib Dems if not Greens etc as there were only 1,833 UKIP first preference votes.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited May 2017
    As well as his famous "increase it's majority" article, we must take a moment to remember this gem.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn4IpyVViw4
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 48,158
    UKIP zero seats now 1/33 BF.

    The 1/5 and better we could get up to this morning must be the safest bet for June 8th...
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Just to put Andy Street's performance into context

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/860122076983775233

    Labour have gone from 49.8 to 49.6?
    No that was 49.9% in the first round not the second.
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    Fantastic WM result that the Tories could not have dreamed of weeks ago.

    Its a big disappointment that Manchester never got as good a choice as Street.
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    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,181
    edited May 2017
    One reason why I think that the Con position is much stronger than polls show is because they aren't making progress in areas such as Oxfordshire where they can afford to take a hit on their majorities, therefore the swing is stronger in the midlands and NE. Oxfordshire should be a rock solid Con stronghold.

    Personally I'm very happy that my RG unseated the incumbent Conservative to keep Oxon NOC.

    Re: OW&Ab, the LDs won all three Abingdon wards and both of the wards between Abingdon & east Oxford. So far I've only seen LD posters as well in Abingdon. All this being said I reckon that Blackwood will hold on in OWAb.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,416
    WEST MIDLANDS GE 2015:

    Labour - 21 seats
    Con - 7 seats

    Amazing for Street to win given the above.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,306
    SeanT said:

    Tories up 14 in Cornwall, Lib Dems down 2.

    Mark Senior?

    He's at the Dunny-on-the-wold count... :smiley:
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,080
    Can I just express a moment's sympathy to the Labour candidate who managed to lose to UKIP. I mean to lose against a party that has lost every seat they held. Not a good day. Not good at all.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,306
    edited May 2017
    LAB Hold Doncaster. I think that's the last result.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 48,158

    The mayoral elections are the perfect illustration of the toxicity of Corbyn Labour. In all three that went to a second round Labour did not get enough transfers from LibDems and Greens to get over the line.

    People don't understand the system, so a lot of Green and LD second preferences will have gone to each other, and so not influenced the final count. Plus I expect many LDs don't currently see Corbyn's Labour as an acceptable second choice. Especially when the Tory was Mr John Lewis/Waitrose.
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    At least Labour won Merthyr, that bastion of flint-eyed socialists and dilapidated housing estates where us Valley boys buy all our drugs.

    Oh.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,101

    Andy Street Yes

    And to be fair to him, his name and background probably made the difference.
    Yes, I think 'Joe Bloggs Conservative' wouldn't have done anything like as well as the John Lewis Theresa May candidate.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I'll be interested to see where and how the SNP seats were lost.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,058
    edited May 2017
    Corbyn turned up in Liverpool - predictable - ranting as normal - zero hours contracts etc
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,060
    edited May 2017
    No point putting any spin on this, today has been a disaster for Labour.

    Tory 120+ majority pretty much nailed on all things being equal.

    Tory electoral fraud scandal only hope for Labour.
This discussion has been closed.