Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Rubbish. Several tons of crap spouted by the bible is ignored at Christians' convenience. It is demonstrably possible to be religious and oppose much of the shite that surrounds it.
To give Michael Gove (a christian) some credit (never thought I would say that!) - he had no problem saying straight away that gay sex was not a sin. Farron messed up here.
Yes - the problem is he has tried to avoid answering, and having how answered, seemingly cannot reasonably explain why it was such a big deal for him to not answer in the first place. An unnecessary issue for him to have messed up with.
Meanwhile, I note that Ronnie O'Sullivan, fresh off his endorsement of Nnice Corbiyn, is 10-6 down to Ding Junhui overnight (best of 25, Ding needs 3 of the last 9 frames to win).
Can you imagine if we'd seen polls like this in 2010? #PBTories would have sent this site into a complete meltdown!
With this level of support how on earth do the Communists Greens succeed in holding onto this seat?
Because its in Brighton.
Labour are in worse shape and the Conservatives have a ceiling of under 30% in that constituency.
I would love it if Con took that from the Greens - there are few forces as snobby and superior as a Green party leader talking about how they represent the people.
Unfortunately seeing a Corbyninsta take, say, Saffron Waldon, for similar effect, seems unlikely.
Formerly it was a very safe Tory seat. Julian Amery was the MP!
Funny how these things go. I seem to recall the Tory in the neighbouring seat was quite complimentary about Lucas, but it didn't save him.
Ha, the Greens have the same odds (500/1) as the BNP there. Poor devils.
The 300-1 and 500-1 are poor value in reality I'm afraid, though I must admit I had a £1 on Lab zero seats at Skybet 500-1.
What do you think would be the last Labour seat standing if they won only one?
The east midlands is going to be brutal for Labour I think.
I don't think the odds right though. There are 3 Leicester seats, with Lei West (Liz Kendall) priced as Evens with PP for the Tories, while Leicester East (Keith Vaz) the Tories are 40/1, and Leicester South (Jon Ashworth) at 33/1. I suspect all 3 are safe, but while Liz Kendall has the smallest majority, she is popular locally and has no national distractions. If the Tories were 10/1 I might be tempted a couple of quid, but not at evens.
Lei South is a bit more tempting, Ashworth will be heavily distracted by the national campaign, as he is Shadow Health. The seat has been both LD and Tory in recent memory. I have backed and tipped him for leader, but in such a University seat he is vulnerable to pro Remain LDs, and also to Tory Leavers. He has no local roots.
Vaz is safe (washing machines are always needed!) but of the 3 I would say no value on Lei West but Lei South is interesting.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Rubbish. Several tons of crap spouted by the bible is ignored at Christians' convenience. It is demonstrably possible to be religious and oppose much of the shite that surrounds it.
Does it matter, in any way? This is a trivial issue.
Labour 2/1 Hammersmith is the value there - 14% majority in a very divided constituency.
On balance, I'd expect Labour to lose but it has lots of social housing, and a big Afro-Caribbean population, both good for Labour.
So does Battersea, but apparently that is a solid Conservative seat now.
Battersea is far posher.
Really, Mr. F? I shall have to take you word for it and that of Mr. Richard who also corrected me but I do so with some reluctance.
I was born in Wandsworth, went to school in Battersea and until a couple of years ago my route into Town took me through the area on a weekly basis. Whilst some parts have definitely gone up market, e.g. Little India (so-called because of the road names before anyone asks) there are still those horrendous 1960s council estates within the constituency borders and I do not suppose they are hot beds of Conservative voters.
Looking at the electoral maps (https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/election-maps/gb/) Hammersmith would seem to have much the same sort of mix, but perhaps missing out on the small area of poshness that has always bordered the South side of Battersea Park.
I suspect you and I went to the same school albeit I was there after you.
I lived in Clapham but knew Battersea fairly well - there were some hideous estates in battersea.
Things have changed but Battersea really was nothing special in the 70's and early 80's
Old Sinjun? There are a few of us about.
Battersea certainly wasn't anything special back then and looking at the map of the constituency it still ain't. Some of those little terraced houses maybe going for a million plus these days but it is still a shit area where you wouldn't want your children out unsupervised or probably going to the local community school.
Meanwhile, I note that Ronnie O'Sullivan, fresh off his endorsement of Nnice Corbiyn, is 10-6 down to Ding Junhui overnight (best of 25, Ding needs 3 of the last 9 frames to win).
Ding is a Corbynite
Well, he's probably an outright Communist - or, at least, bankrolled by them.
Tories 12/1 in Denton & Reddish on Betfair Sportsbook. Doesn't make sense when Stalybridge & Hyde is 5/6. It isn't that much more difficult.
You're making these up now!
I'm not betting myself this time so I'm giving away my tips whenever I see anything interesting. Hope they're helpful.
A man dedicated to public service, I see. Much appreciated. I've bet more on this election than I ever have before - I may be wrong in my assumptions on the overall situation, but I've got a good feeling on some of these constituency bets.
News from Trump - just put tariffs on Canadian lumber and when asked if this will start a trade war he said no as Canada has a large trade surplus with the US.
And to think some on here thought the talks with the EU and US would result in a deal - seems only if Germany takes the hit on it's trade surplus
There's a big difference: The EU negotiates as an equal. Canada does not.
Not in Trumps eyes - he is after Germany
Canada cannot survive without the US, so I'm not sure the two situations are analogous.
Just text my son and daughter in law, who is Canadian, and living in Vancouver for their reaction
I know Canada well, and have spent time in places many people haven't even heard of: Fort McMurray, Winnipeg, Edmonton and Regina for example.
The most likely consequence of the US imposing tariffs will be that the Canadians seek to diversify their export options. So, arguments over whether there should be an oil pipeline from Edmonton and Fort McMurray across the Rockies to Vancouver/Kitimat are likely to be quickly resolved in favour of 'yes'. The Chinese have been desparate for a long time to get Canada exporting oil & gas, but the Canadians have been leery of pissing off their neighbours.
That all being said, the US does have an excellent case here. The implicit Canadian timber subsidies are huge, and are likely in contravension of both the NAFTA and WTO treaties. The interesting question - to me at least - is whether President Trump follows the tariffs with cases lodged at the WTO and NAFTA ISDS. He should do - as the US has an excellent case - but his dislike of multilateral organisations may stop him.
Interesting reply and yes I do know Canada fairly well though not so much on economics. Indeed we are off to Vancouver from 10th May to 25th May so will miss the day to day sparring, but will keep upto date as much as possible on line, depending on the adventures my family have planned for us
I see OGH is playing the snobbery card, saying the less educated you are the more likely you are to vote Tory. However he ignores the rather evident fact that the Tories still have an 8% lead over Labour even with graduates https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/856940586133225472/photo/1
It's funny how it's the Liberal Democrats who are now the most snobbish and elitist.
"Waitrose".. "Educated"..
Yuk.
Yeah I've gone right off the so called Liberal Democrats even though I've voted for them more often than any other party.
They've spent the time since the last GE showing they didn't want my vote again.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
If Spitting Image were still going, the Farron puppet wouldn't look out of place in the Pet Shop Boys doing a parody of 'It's a sin'.
I wonder what Corbyn thinks? It wouldn't entirely surprise me if he came out with a Gisela Allen-esque line about his attraction to gorillas.
News from Trump - just put tariffs on Canadian lumber and when asked if this will start a trade war he said no as Canada has a large trade surplus with the US.
And to think some on here thought the talks with the EU and US would result in a deal - seems only if Germany takes the hit on it's trade surplus
There's a big difference: The EU negotiates as an equal. Canada does not.
Not in Trumps eyes - he is after Germany
Canada cannot survive without the US, so I'm not sure the two situations are analogous.
Just text my son and daughter in law, who is Canadian, and living in Vancouver for their reaction
I know Canada well, and have spent time in places many people haven't even heard of: Fort McMurray, Winnipeg, Edmonton and Regina for example.
The most likely consequence of the US imposing tariffs will be that the Canadians seek to diversify their export options. So, arguments over whether there should be an oil pipeline from Edmonton and Fort McMurray across the Rockies to Vancouver/Kitimat are likely to be quickly resolved in favour of 'yes'. The Chinese have been desparate for a long time to get Canada exporting oil & gas, but the Canadians have been leery of pissing off their neighbours.
That all being said, the US does have an excellent case here. The implicit Canadian timber subsidies are huge, and are likely in contravension of both the NAFTA and WTO treaties. The interesting question - to me at least - is whether President Trump follows the tariffs with cases lodged at the WTO and NAFTA ISDS. He should do - as the US has an excellent case - but his dislike of multilateral organisations may stop him.
Interesting reply and yes I do know Canada fairly well though not so much on economics. Indeed we are off to Vancouver from 10th May to 25th May so will miss the day to day sparring, but will keep upto date as much as possible on line, depending on the adventures my family have planned for us
Vancouver favourite north American city for me by a country mile.
When corbyn wins in few weeks and I am forced to claim asylum in Canada I shall be heading there pronto.
Lib Dem or in general? Just so you know he was removed from being the candidate within a couple of hours of us first finding out. Not "forced" to suspend him.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Rubbish. Several tons of crap spouted by the bible is ignored at Christians' convenience. It is demonstrably possible to be religious and oppose much of the shite that surrounds it.
Does it matter, in any way? This is a trivial issue.
It sort of is, granted. Yet when considering whether to vote for someone, you also look at values. Considering gay sex sinful is not only nuts, it is also inhumane.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Rubbish. Several tons of crap spouted by the bible is ignored at Christians' convenience. It is demonstrably possible to be religious and oppose much of the shite that surrounds it.
Not really, you can be a 'comes and goes' in the Cotswolds Christian like Cameron of course but if you are really religious as May and Farron are you have to accept the Biblical teachings and that includes the fact that sexual union should only take place in heterosexual marriage, not to be dishonest, not to be blasphemous, not to envy what others have, to honour your parents, to keep the Sabbath etc. That does not mean any of those actions should be against the law, although some teachings of the Bible are eg against theft and murder but you have to say they are sins as written in the Bible, the fact that does not go down well with 21st attitudes does not change that fact
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
If you want to bet on a Labour wipeout, the 66/1 on the Tories available in Kingston-upon-Hull East and Kingston-upon-Hull West, from both PP and Betfair Sports, looks great.
Hull voted over 67% to Leave the EU, and has just the sort of constituency profile that May is appealing toward. The majorities in both barely scrape c. 10,000. West has a combined Tory/UKIP vote from GE2015 of 37.4% and East of 38.3%.
They are Labour's 72nd and 91st safest seats, according to Baxter, and a long way down the target list for the Tories. But I suspect they are actually much more vulnerable than that. It wouldn't take an earthquake for the Labour vote to drop from the current c.50% enough to carry the Tories across the line in the low 40s. Plus, Alan Johnson is standing down in West.
And, in any event, even if you disagree, at these odds it doesn't matter.
Thanks. Put a £1 on each.
Suddenly blocked to me on BF Sports. Eh?
West has gone blank, and East is now 33/1. They move fast, don't they?
Edit 16/1
Can I ask which bookies people are using that already have a complete set of constituency odds?
Sky Bet has a small selection. Ladbrokes has v. few.
I don't currently have an a/c with PP or Betfair. I don't particularly want to open one but could if needed.
Betfair doesn't have a complete list, but there's a wide range.
OK, BF, you voided my Woking 66/1 on the Tories, and that was clearly a legitimate error, but you won't void my Kingston ones will you? They might be more likely than 66/1 but they're not 1/200 like Woking was changed to!
If you could open an account in Italy their gambling laws prohibit palping of bets. But i don't know if you have to logon through an Italian portal. And you might not be able to access such UK specific markets.
Interesting news about italian laws there though.
Thanks. I'm hoping for the complete list some bookies offered at GE 2015.
Does anyone know the amount bet on a typical constituency at a GE? (i.e. typical, not well-known places like Bath.)
Given May's apparently great ability to increase the Tory vote in places where it has suffered in the past, I look forward to seeing a poll that shows the NI Conservatives have become the first to break the mould of the politics in Northern Ireland and are surging into first place across the area.
I see OGH is playing the snobbery card, saying the less educated you are the more likely you are to vote Tory. However he ignores the rather evident fact that the Tories still have an 8% lead over Labour even with graduates https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/856940586133225472/photo/1
Yeah. Ignorant bastards. Take that Roger Scruton, for e.g.
Yes, plus the Tories are the only 1 of the 4 main UK parties led by an Oxbridge graduate, indeed Corbyn does not even have a degree
Lib Dem or in general? Just so you know he was removed from being the candidate within a couple of hours of us first finding out. Not "forced" to suspend him.
In general. I bet we get all parties finding was anti-Semites under the bed. With labour rushing to find 400+ candidates if I was labour I would be crapping it that some nutters get through the rushed vetting.
Chesterfield on PP is 20/1 to go Conservatives. Couple of things attracted me to it:
- 60% Leave - Fairly decent UKIP vote on top of the Conservative vote (two combined = c 34% in 2015) - Labour vote (just) below 50% - Not a big concentration of students etc.
DYOR
The only thing is that PP only allowed me to put #1.70 on
Given May's apparently great ability to increase the Tory vote in places where it has suffered in the past, I look forward to seeing a poll that shows the NI Conservatives have become the first to break the mould of the politics in Northern Ireland and are surging into first place across the area.
. . . the small area of poshness that has always bordered the South side of Battersea Park.
That's where I lived as a teenager. It wasn't posh then (~ 60 years ago).
What those flats in Prince of Wales Drive? Give over, they have been posh since they were first built in Queen Victoria's time.
No, a semi-d. in a side street off of Prince of Wales Drive. We weren't posh and none of the neighbours were, though they're all well over £1m now. I wasn't at Sinjun's. Isn't that where David Davis went? Mine was where some deplorable Labour politicians went (Peter Hain and Geoffrey Robinson).
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
No I don't. Why didn't you say so then? Not appropriate to comment on theology. Except you are now? Yes. So it is ok to comment on it? Yes. So why not be clearer before? Er.
The LDs need to get off this issue - Farron is better than people give him credit for, but he's caused a mess simply through his own inability to be clear on this matter.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Rubbish. Several tons of crap spouted by the bible is ignored at Christians' convenience. It is demonstrably possible to be religious and oppose much of the shite that surrounds it.
To give Michael Gove (a christian) some credit (never thought I would say that!) - he had no problem saying straight away that gay sex was not a sin. Farron messed up here.
He said it for political advantage, in terms of the religious definition of sin he was wrong
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
Theresa May as Home Secretary, introduced and passed legislation that made it possible for gay people to get married.
Have we already discussed Momentum putting pro Corbyn stickers on all the tins at a food bank?
When corbyn anmouces the free bog roll policy I presume each roll will have socialist propaganda printed on it to remind is of what the supreme leader is doing for us.
It'll just be Izal (aka greaseproof paper)... what my late grandfather called 'good redistributive loo roll'
Tories down to 5/1 in Kingston West now! Come on, I'm sure 66/1 was over generous, but really?
Many accounts on here will be marked as sharp and will move the price regardless of the volume.
Really? - how's that work exactly?
The bookmaker has your entire betting history so can see where you are good and bad, a high volume bettor can have an hugely detailed profile - they might be a losing football punter overall but call Tottenham matches with preternatural accuracy, that sort of thing.
There are plenty of low stakes bettors who do the analysis for a fun hobby rather than looking to make a living from it.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Rubbish. Several tons of crap spouted by the bible is ignored at Christians' convenience. It is demonstrably possible to be religious and oppose much of the shite that surrounds it.
Not really, you can be a 'comes and goes' in the Cotswolds Christian like Cameron of course but if you are really religious as May and Farron are you have to accept the Biblical teachings and that includes the fact that sexual union should only take place in heterosexual marriage, not to be dishonest, not to be blasphemous, not to envy what others have, to honour your parents, to keep the Sabbath etc. That does not mean any of those actions should be against the law, although some teachings of the Bible are eg against theft and murder but you have to say they are sins as written in the Bible, the fact that does not go down well with 21st attitudes does not change that fact
That's rubbish. Only a small proportion accept every word of the bible. Most Christians pick and choose. Many do not consider gay sex a sin. Do you?
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
Lib Dem or in general? Just so you know he was removed from being the candidate within a couple of hours of us first finding out. Not "forced" to suspend him.
In general. I bet we get all parties finding was anti-Semites under the bed. With labour rushing to find 400+ candidates if I was labour I would be crapping it that some nutters get through the rushed vetting.
The whole selection process is designed to find nutters. A normal person, with a normal CV, won't get a look-in. A lifetime of protesting, organising, being a member of this or that committee and being XYZ officer for your local CLP is what is needed to get selected.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Rubbish. Several tons of crap spouted by the bible is ignored at Christians' convenience. It is demonstrably possible to be religious and oppose much of the shite that surrounds it.
Does it matter, in any way? This is a trivial issue.
It sort of is, granted. Yet when considering whether to vote for someone, you also look at values. Considering gay sex sinful is not only nuts, it is also inhumane.
There will be candidates who consider abortion, divorce, eating meat, Christianity, atheism, drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes etc. Morally acceptable or unacceptable, but only penny packets of voters to whom it matters.
Labour 2/1 Hammersmith is the value there - 14% majority in a very divided constituency.
On balance, I'd expect Labour to lose but it has lots of social housing, and a big Afro-Caribbean population, both good for Labour.
So does Battersea, but apparently that is a solid Conservative seat now.
Battersea is far posher.
Really, Mr. F? I shall have to take you word for it and that of Mr. Richard who also corrected me but I do so with some reluctance.
I was born in Wandsworth, went to school in Battersea and until a couple of years ago my route into Town took me through the area on a weekly basis. Whilst some parts have definitely gone up market, e.g. Little India (so-called because of the road names before anyone asks) there are still those horrendous 1960s council estates within the constituency borders and I do not suppose they are hot beds of Conservative voters.
Looking at the electoral maps (https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/election-maps/gb/) Hammersmith would seem to have much the same sort of mix, but perhaps missing out on the small area of poshness that has always bordered the South side of Battersea Park.
I suspect you and I went to the same school albeit I was there after you.
I lived in Clapham but knew Battersea fairly well - there were some hideous estates in battersea.
Things have changed but Battersea really was nothing special in the 70's and early 80's
Old Sinjun? There are a few of us about.
Battersea certainly wasn't anything special back then and looking at the map of the constituency it still ain't. Some of those little terraced houses maybe going for a million plus these days but it is still a shit area where you wouldn't want your children out unsupervised or probably going to the local community school.
Yeah Wix Lane primary followed by Sinjuns.
Was "Fritz" there in your day?
The French master? Knew him, but was never taught by him. A very nice chap out of school but, I understand, a bit of a bugger in the classroom. Looking back I am sure that at least two thirds of the masters were barking mad (e.g. history master called Walker, aka Joe Stalin) and none of them would last five minutes in today's environment but they managed to impart a pretty decent education.
I see OGH is postingnthe flawed stuff about less educated more likely to vote Tory the same way as more likely to have voted leave....As we have discussed a million times it is really related to age and the fact less than 20% of oldies went to uni when they were 18, where as now it is 50%. But then OGH already knows this.
We already knew oldies more likely to go Tory, but with Kim Jong may vs the 70s throwback (and naughty Nige off the scene ) it is one party state for oldies.
The deeper flaw is thinking that the point and benefit of an education is that it enables you to sneer at people with less of one. It makes me really fucking cross; esp from someone who has worked at two of the three proper universities in the country and really ought to know better. And if Remainers are so fucking smart how come we served an Article 50 notice last month?
I think OGH is engaging in some trolling, and is probably laughing that so many people rose to the bait.
You don't come out with nonsense like that unless, deep down, some small part of you believes it.
Given May's apparently great ability to increase the Tory vote in places where it has suffered in the past, I look forward to seeing a poll that shows the NI Conservatives have become the first to break the mould of the politics in Northern Ireland and are surging into first place across the area.
It would be excellent if the NI Conservatives could poll a good vote.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
No I don't. Why didn't you say so then? Not appropriate to comment on theology. Except you are now? Yes. So it is ok to comment on it? Yes. So why not be clearer before? Er.
The LDs need to get off this issue - Farron is better than people give him credit for, but he's caused a mess simply through his own inability to be clear on this matter.
The LDs are off this issue . It is people like you who are going on about it .
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Rubbish. Several tons of crap spouted by the bible is ignored at Christians' convenience. It is demonstrably possible to be religious and oppose much of the shite that surrounds it.
Does it matter, in any way? This is a trivial issue.
It sort of is, granted. Yet when considering whether to vote for someone, you also look at values. Considering gay sex sinful is not only nuts, it is also inhumane.
Why is it inhumane? Is he proposing to arrest anybody who has gay sex and parade them around the streets with a placard? Of course not, however that does not change the fact it is a sin just as anybody who has sex before heterosexual marriage has committed a sin or anybody who has committed adultery has committed a sin, you may not be religious and disagree with that which is fine but that does not change the definition of what is a sin in religious terms even if the sinful act is legal
Lib Dem or in general? Just so you know he was removed from being the candidate within a couple of hours of us first finding out. Not "forced" to suspend him.
In general. I bet we get all parties finding was anti-Semites under the bed. With labour rushing to find 400+ candidates if I was labour I would be crapping it that some nutters get through the rushed vetting.
The whole selection process is designed to find nutters. A normal person, with a normal CV, won't get a look-in. A lifetime of protesting, organising, being a member of this or that committee and being XYZ officer for your local CLP is what is needed to get selected.
Obviously I know that is the point of the selection process , but not stopped it in the past. Trying to fully check out 400 people in such a short space of time, you are going to miss embarassing things and that is with having confidence those doing the checking know how to search deleted tweets etc (which if stoke is anything to go by I think we can say not)
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Rubbish. Several tons of crap spouted by the bible is ignored at Christians' convenience. It is demonstrably possible to be religious and oppose much of the shite that surrounds it.
To give Michael Gove (a christian) some credit (never thought I would say that!) - he had no problem saying straight away that gay sex was not a sin. Farron messed up here.
He said it for political advantage, in terms of the religious definition of sin he was wrong
How can he be 'wrong'? He was asked whether he consider gay sex to be a sin. He doesn't. The bible spouts lots of stuff that many Christians oppose. "Spare the rod, spoil the child." Those Christians who decline to beat their children are defying the 'good' book.
I see OGH is postingnthe flawed stuff about less educated more likely to vote Tory the same way as more likely to have voted leave....As we have discussed a million times it is really related to age and the fact less than 20% of oldies went to uni when they were 18, where as now it is 50%. But then OGH already knows this.
We already knew oldies more likely to go Tory, but with Kim Jong may vs the 70s throwback (and naughty Nige off the scene ) it is one party state for oldies.
The deeper flaw is thinking that the point and benefit of an education is that it enables you to sneer at people with less of one. It makes me really fucking cross; esp from someone who has worked at two of the three proper universities in the country and really ought to know better. And if Remainers are so fucking smart how come we served an Article 50 notice last month?
I think OGH is engaging in some trolling, and is probably laughing that so many people rose to the bait.
You don't come out with nonsense like that unless, deep down, some small part of you believes it.
Mike has strong understanding of the educational and especially the university sector.
He's worked for several universities, he's aware of why older people are less likely to have attended university than younger people.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
. . . the small area of poshness that has always bordered the South side of Battersea Park.
That's where I lived as a teenager. It wasn't posh then (~ 60 years ago).
What those flats in Prince of Wales Drive? Give over, they have been posh since they were first built in Queen Victoria's time.
he used to live in Prince Of Wales Drive, Battersea. But since he became a great star, he thought this wasn't really very suitable. He now lives in Albert Bridge Road, Battersea.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Rubbish. Several tons of crap spouted by the bible is ignored at Christians' convenience. It is demonstrably possible to be religious and oppose much of the shite that surrounds it.
Not really, you can be a 'comes and goes' in the Cotswolds Christian like Cameron of course but if you are really religious as May and Farron are you have to accept the Biblical teachings and that includes the fact that sexual union should only take place in heterosexual marriage, not to be dishonest, not to be blasphemous, not to envy what others have, to honour your parents, to keep the Sabbath etc. That does not mean any of those actions should be against the law, although some teachings of the Bible are eg against theft and murder but you have to say they are sins as written in the Bible, the fact that does not go down well with 21st attitudes does not change that fact
I would disagree. I am one of the PpBers that self describes as Christian, and attends church several times per month. I do not consider gay sex to be sinful. It is condemned in the Old Testament but is striking by its absence in New Testament teachings.
Jesus condemns many things, principly hypocrisy, violence and greed, but is particularly harsh on those who rigidly apply scripture literally and without compassion. Anyone who has failed to notice this (including many Christian professors!) needs to do a bit more Bible study starting with Matthew!
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
No more sodding discussion of Tim Farron and gay sex and it's a sin. I have the bloody Pet Shop Boys song earwormed in my head. I'm an Always On My Mind man.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Rubbish. Several tons of crap spouted by the bible is ignored at Christians' convenience. It is demonstrably possible to be religious and oppose much of the shite that surrounds it.
To give Michael Gove (a christian) some credit (never thought I would say that!) - he had no problem saying straight away that gay sex was not a sin. Farron messed up here.
He said it for political advantage, in terms of the religious definition of sin he was wrong
How can he be 'wrong'? He was asked whether he consider gay sex to be a sin. He doesn't. The bible spouts lots of stuff that many Christians oppose. "Spare the rod, spoil the child." Those Christians who decline to beat their children are defying the 'good' book.
And they are wrong to do so. Naughty children ought to be beaten.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
Theresa May as Home Secretary, introduced and passed legislation that made it possible for gay people to get married.
I think that's what you should judge her on.
Yes, I judge her on that of course. I also judge her on her values. Does she consider gay sex a sin? That to me is a fair question.
No more sodding discussion of Tim Farron and gay sex and it's a sin. I have the bloody Pet Shop Boys song earwormed in my head. I'm an Always On My Mind man.
You will look back upon this comment with a sense of shame.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
Nope. The fact that he says it now, when he's had a chance to think about what the acceptable answer is, doesn't change what his instincts were when he was first asked about it.
. . . the small area of poshness that has always bordered the South side of Battersea Park.
That's where I lived as a teenager. It wasn't posh then (~ 60 years ago).
What those flats in Prince of Wales Drive? Give over, they have been posh since they were first built in Queen Victoria's time.
he used to live in Prince Of Wales Drive, Battersea. But since he became a great star, he thought this wasn't really very suitable. He now lives in Albert Bridge Road, Battersea.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
No I don't. Why didn't you say so then? Not appropriate to comment on theology. Except you are now? Yes. So it is ok to comment on it? Yes. So why not be clearer before? Er.
The LDs need to get off this issue - Farron is better than people give him credit for, but he's caused a mess simply through his own inability to be clear on this matter.
The LDs are off this issue . It is people like you who are going on about it .
People like me? People who have voted LD multiple times, want them to recover significant support as quickly as possible even though I don't support all their policies because I am not a fan of May or Corbyn, because I want as many parties to have significant support as possible, because I don't like parties to have huge majorities, who just said Farron was better than people give him credit for? I even corrected a colleague thinking of voting LD who said they'd heard Farron thought being gay was a sin and so was not sure.
Your response is no different to Corbynistas complaining about the media focusing on issues they don't want to talk about in favour of the things they want to go on about, and how unfair that is. 'People like me' have only gone on about it because Farron chose to give obfuscating answers to very very simple questions, and then answered it simply which shows he could have avoided all of this in the first place.
It's a question of smart politics - he made an issue of something he did not need to, to the benefit of his opponents.
So tell me Mark, what sort of person am I? What do you mean by that? What is it I am attempting to do when I complain that Farron's lack of clarity is hurting them, and I'd like them to do better?
For clarity's sake, it should be obvious that 'the LDs need to get off this issue' means 'They need to get people to stop talking about it', not 'they need to stop bringing it up' .
Once more, we see the LD supporters actively driving people away from giving them their votes.
Lib Dem or in general? Just so you know he was removed from being the candidate within a couple of hours of us first finding out. Not "forced" to suspend him.
On the day that David Ward was reselected as a Lib Dem candidate.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Rubbish. Several tons of crap spouted by the bible is ignored at Christians' convenience. It is demonstrably possible to be religious and oppose much of the shite that surrounds it.
Does it matter, in any way? This is a trivial issue.
It sort of is, granted. Yet when considering whether to vote for someone, you also look at values. Considering gay sex sinful is not only nuts, it is also inhumane.
Why is it inhumane? Is he proposing to arrest anybody who has gay sex and parade them around the streets with a placard? Of course not, however that does not change the fact it is a sin just as anybody who has sex before heterosexual marriage has committed a sin or anybody who has committed adultery has committed a sin, you may not be religious and disagree with that which is fine but that does not change the definition of what is a sin in religious terms even if the sinful act is legal
No you are conflating what the bible says with what he believes. The question was not whether the bible considers gay sex a sin (clearly it does). The question was whether he considers it a sin (he does not, as it transpires). Most Christians pick and choose from the bible - quite reasonably. Otherwise they would all beat their children with God on their side.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
Theresa May as Home Secretary, introduced and passed legislation that made it possible for gay people to get married.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
He only did that because he was leader of the LDs in the middle of a general election campaign, in terms of his Christian beliefs he cannot deny it is
so he can't win in your view. If he says it is a sin you attack him. If he says it isn't a sin you attack him. It's actually nothing to do with what he says or does, it's all about you not liking the Lib Dems. In other words, part of the political game. Why not just say you don't like the Lib Dems though, instead of trying to dress it up as some sort of righteous attack.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Sometimes your posts make me sigh, Mr HYUDF, and sometimes I find them very sensible. This is one of the latter. I don`t understand why there is a campaign by some people in the press to crucify Farron, but to leave May alone.
No more sodding discussion of Tim Farron and gay sex and it's a sin. I have the bloody Pet Shop Boys song earwormed in my head. I'm an Always On My Mind man.
It's a good song, there are worse ones to get stuck in your head.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
He only did that because he was leader of the LDs in the middle of a general election campaign, in terms of his Christian beliefs he cannot deny it is
so he can't win in your view. If he says it is a sin you attack him. If he says it isn't a sin you attack him. It's actually nothing to do with what he says or does, it's all about you not liking the Lib Dems. In other words, part of the political game. Why not just say you don't like the Lib Dems though, instead of trying to dress it up as some sort of righteous attack.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
Theresa May as Home Secretary, introduced and passed legislation that made it possible for gay people to get married.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
Theresa May as Home Secretary, introduced and passed legislation that made it possible for gay people to get married.
I think that's what you should judge her on.
Yes, I judge her on that of course. I also judge her on her values. Does she consider gay sex a sin? That to me is a fair question.
Of course she does, her father was an Anglican vicar, that does not mean she thinks it should be illegal as her vote for gay marriage proves. All of us sin at one time or another, that does not mean you deny what you did was a sin if you are religious
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Rubbish. Several tons of crap spouted by the bible is ignored at Christians' convenience. It is demonstrably possible to be religious and oppose much of the shite that surrounds it.
Does it matter, in any way? This is a trivial issue.
It sort of is, granted. Yet when considering whether to vote for someone, you also look at values. Considering gay sex sinful is not only nuts, it is also inhumane.
There will be candidates who consider abortion, divorce, eating meat, Christianity, atheism, drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes etc. Morally acceptable or unacceptable, but only penny packets of voters to whom it matters.
I'd be interested to know their values on such matters. Maybe I am unusual in that respect, in fact I am sure I am.
No more sodding discussion of Tim Farron and gay sex and it's a sin. I have the bloody Pet Shop Boys song earwormed in my head. I'm an Always On My Mind man.
You will look back upon this comment with a sense of shame.
Is that the same sam tarry who got in a spot of bother in regards to where he lived and where he was registered to vote? I believe he was also involved in traingate.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
Theresa May as Home Secretary, introduced and passed legislation that made it possible for gay people to get married.
I think that's what you should judge her on.
Didn't she vote against repeal of Section 28?
So did Dave, both regretted it.
Proud George Osborne ignored the whip, and voted to repeal Section 28.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
He only did that because he was leader of the LDs in the middle of a general election campaign, in terms of his Christian beliefs he cannot deny it is
so he can't win in your view. If he says it is a sin you attack him. If he says it isn't a sin you attack him. It's actually nothing to do with what he says or does, it's all about you not liking the Lib Dems. In other words, part of the political game. Why not just say you don't like the Lib Dems though, instead of trying to dress it up as some sort of righteous attack.
Ah brings back memories of Nuttall in Stoke... dirty ol' Politics!
. . . the small area of poshness that has always bordered the South side of Battersea Park.
That's where I lived as a teenager. It wasn't posh then (~ 60 years ago).
What those flats in Prince of Wales Drive? Give over, they have been posh since they were first built in Queen Victoria's time.
No, a semi-d. in a side street off of Prince of Wales Drive. We weren't posh and none of the neighbours were, though they're all well over £1m now. I wasn't at Sinjun's. Isn't that where David Davis went? Mine was where some deplorable Labour politicians went (Peter Hain and Geoffrey Robinson).
Bloody hell, Mr. W! I just googled up Hain and saw that he went to Emanuel. Well nevermind, old fellow, the mistakes our parents make don't have to scar us for life.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Rubbish. Several tons of crap spouted by the bible is ignored at Christians' convenience. It is demonstrably possible to be religious and oppose much of the shite that surrounds it.
To give Michael Gove (a christian) some credit (never thought I would say that!) - he had no problem saying straight away that gay sex was not a sin. Farron messed up here.
He said it for political advantage, in terms of the religious definition of sin he was wrong
How can he be 'wrong'? He was asked whether he consider gay sex to be a sin. He doesn't. The bible spouts lots of stuff that many Christians oppose. "Spare the rod, spoil the child." Those Christians who decline to beat their children are defying the 'good' book.
Technically if you spoil your children too much you are also being sinful, yes
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
No I don't. Why didn't you say so then? Not appropriate to comment on theology. Except you are now? Yes. So it is ok to comment on it? Yes. So why not be clearer before? Er.
The LDs need to get off this issue - Farron is better than people give him credit for, but he's caused a mess simply through his own inability to be clear on this matter.
The LDs are off this issue . It is people like you who are going on about it .
People like me? People who have voted LD multiple times, want them to recover significant support as quickly as possible even though I don't support all their policies because I am not a fan of May or Corbyn, because I want as many parties to have significant support as possible, because I don't like parties to have huge majorities, who just said Farron was better than people give him credit for? I even corrected a colleague thinking of voting LD who said they'd heard Farron thought being gay was a sin and so was not sure.
Your response is no different to Corbynistas complaining about the media focusing on issues they don't want to talk about in favour of the things they want to go on about, and how unfair that is. 'People like me' have only gone on about it because Farron chose to give obfuscating answers to very very simple questions, and then answered it simply which shows he could have avoided all of this in the first place.
It's a question of smart politics - he made an issue of something he did not need to, to the benefit of his opponents.
So tell me Mark, what sort of person am I? What do you mean by that? What is it I am attempting to do when I complain that Farron's lack of clarity is hurting them, and I'd like them to do better?
For clarity's sake, it should be obvious that 'the LDs need to get off this issue' means 'They need to get people to stop talking about it', not 'they need to stop bringing it up' .
Once more, we see the LD supporters actively driving people away from giving them their votes.
As Devil's advocate, a working class Northern bloke expressing at least a degree of social conservatism may well pick up more votes than he loses!
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
Theresa May as Home Secretary, introduced and passed legislation that made it possible for gay people to get married.
I think that's what you should judge her on.
Yes, I judge her on that of course. I also judge her on her values. Does she consider gay sex a sin? That to me is a fair question.
Someone should ask her about it - it's only fair considering Farron has been asked, and both are religious. I'd hope she would answer simply, and would have done so even before she saw how Farron got tied in knots about it, but we shall never know given it came up with him first.
. . . the small area of poshness that has always bordered the South side of Battersea Park.
That's where I lived as a teenager. It wasn't posh then (~ 60 years ago).
What those flats in Prince of Wales Drive? Give over, they have been posh since they were first built in Queen Victoria's time.
he used to live in Prince Of Wales Drive, Battersea. But since he became a great star, he thought this wasn't really very suitable. He now lives in Albert Bridge Road, Battersea.
eh? One of Flanders and Swann?
Yup. In "At the Drop of A Hat", we have Flanders saying I live in Kensington - naturally; [points to DS and whispers:] Battersea! [normal voice] He calls it South Chelsea. - that line is from the opening of "At the Drop of Another Hat".
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Rubbish. Several tons of crap spouted by the bible is ignored at Christians' convenience. It is demonstrably possible to be religious and oppose much of the shite that surrounds it.
To give Michael Gove (a christian) some credit (never thought I would say that!) - he had no problem saying straight away that gay sex was not a sin. Farron messed up here.
Surely Christians believe that all extramarital sex is sinful?
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Rubbish. Several tons of crap spouted by the bible is ignored at Christians' convenience. It is demonstrably possible to be religious and oppose much of the shite that surrounds it.
Not really, you can be a 'comes and goes' in the Cotswolds Christian like Cameron of course but if you are really religious as May and Farron are you have to accept the Biblical teachings and that includes the fact that sexual union should only take place in heterosexual marriage, not to be dishonest, not to be blasphemous, not to envy what others have, to honour your parents, to keep the Sabbath etc. That does not mean any of those actions should be against the law, although some teachings of the Bible are eg against theft and murder but you have to say they are sins as written in the Bible, the fact that does not go down well with 21st attitudes does not change that fact
I would disagree. I am one of the PpBers that self describes as Christian, and attends church several times per month. I do not consider gay sex to be sinful. It is condemned in the Old Testament but is striking by its absence in New Testament teachings.
Jesus condemns many things, principly hypocrisy, violence and greed, but is particularly harsh on those who rigidly apply scripture literally and without compassion. Anyone who has failed to notice this (including many Christian professors!) needs to do a bit more Bible study starting with Matthew!
I didn't know you were Christian but thanks for giving us an excellent example! QED.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
I would be very interested in her answer, given the struggles Farron has had with it (and I know one Tory-considering-LD who has been put off by his answers to date, so what they'd do if May said the same things IDK)
Go Green maybe but this is all ridiculous, gay marriage is legal and both Farron and May voted for it but as they are both practising Christians they cannot contradict Biblical teaching that any sex outside heterosexual marriage is a sin but then lots of things are sins that does not mean they are all going to be made illegal!
Rubbish. Several tons of crap spouted by the bible is ignored at Christians' convenience. It is demonstrably possible to be religious and oppose much of the shite that surrounds it.
Not really, you can be a 'comes and goes' in the Cotswolds Christian like Cameron of course but if you are really religious as May and Farron are you have to accept the Biblical teachings and that includes the fact that sexual union should only take place in heterosexual marriage, not to be dishonest, not to be blasphemous, not to envy what others have, to honour your parents, to keep the Sabbath etc. That does not mean any of those actions should be against the law, although some teachings of the Bible are eg against theft and murder but you have to say they are sins as written in the Bible, the fact that does not go down well with 21st attitudes does not change that fact
I would disagree. I am one of the PpBers that self describes as Christian, and attends church several times per month. I do not consider gay sex to be sinful. It is condemned in the Old Testament but is striking by its absence in New Testament teachings.
Jesus condemns many things, principly hypocrisy, violence and greed, but is particularly harsh on those who rigidly apply scripture literally and without compassion. Anyone who has failed to notice this (including many Christian professors!) needs to do a bit more Bible study starting with Matthew!
Jesus said 'love the sinner, hate the sin' that does not mean he thought there were no sins!
Seem to remember earlier today that someone posted that in the age groups of 34 and onward May is the clear favourite between her and Corbyn. Now I turned 34 a couple of months ago, does that mean it's pre-determined that I have to vote May now?
Seem to remember earlier today that someone posted that in the age groups of 34 and onward May is the clear favourite between her and Corbyn. Now I turned 34 a couple of months ago, does that mean it's pre-determined that I have to vote May now?
Yup, and pre-determined to think police officers are getting younger
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
No I don't. Why didn't you say so then? Not appropriate to comment on theology. Except you are now? Yes. So it is ok to comment on it? Yes. So why not be clearer before? Er.
The LDs need to get off this issue - Farron is better than people give him credit for, but he's caused a mess simply through his own inability to be clear on this matter.
The LDs are off this issue . It is people like you who are going on about it .
People like me? People who have voted LD multiple times, want them to recover significant support as quickly as possible even though I don't support all their policies because I am not a fan of May es.
As Devil's advocate, a working class Northern bloke expressing at least a degree of social conservatism may well pick up more votes than he loses!
He might well do so. LD chap in my ward is a serving minister, others are committed christians, it's a position that leads some to many good things, and even if they do think gay sex is sinful, that is a position plenty hold. I don't agree with it, I'd have to balance that view against any others such a person held before I could vote for them, but if they are clear about it, I can do that balancing.
But to Mark Senior, criticising the poor political operation of the LD leader in being so unclear until today is apparently unconscionable.
Farron sounds like he is in a right royal pickle over this gay shagging lark. Putting me off voting Liberal, truth be told. But May is also God Squad, I understand. Has anyone asked her whether she considers gay sex the work of Lord Beelzebub?
Comments
Not that I'm aware of.
Though I did do a YouGov yesterday, which might be in The Times.
I'm expecting an Ipsos MORI poll tomorrow lunchtime (though that's not been officially confirmed)
Lei South is a bit more tempting, Ashworth will be heavily distracted by the national campaign, as he is Shadow Health. The seat has been both LD and Tory in recent memory. I have backed and tipped him for leader, but in such a University seat he is vulnerable to pro Remain LDs, and also to Tory Leavers. He has no local roots.
Vaz is safe (washing machines are always needed!) but of the 3 I would say no value on Lei West but Lei South is interesting.
That's easily the biggest market move I've ever made.
Was "Fritz" there in your day?
Fine. They won't get it.
When corbyn wins in few weeks and I am forced to claim asylum in Canada I shall be heading there pronto.
Edit: Tim says gay sex is not a sin. No hedging about. Can we please now put this aside?
Perhaps they were divided up into bed sits :-)
Does anyone know the amount bet on a typical constituency at a GE? (i.e. typical, not well-known places like Bath.)
I wasn't at Sinjun's. Isn't that where David Davis went? Mine was where some deplorable Labour politicians went (Peter Hain and Geoffrey Robinson).
No I don't. Why didn't you say so then? Not appropriate to comment on theology. Except you are now? Yes. So it is ok to comment on it? Yes. So why not be clearer before? Er.
The LDs need to get off this issue - Farron is better than people give him credit for, but he's caused a mess simply through his own inability to be clear on this matter.
I think that's what you should judge her on.
There are plenty of low stakes bettors who do the analysis for a fun hobby rather than looking to make a living from it.
He's worked for several universities, he's aware of why older people are less likely to have attended university than younger people.
Being Tom Watson won't save him.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/25/britain-must-contribute-eu-budget-2020-secure-favourable-brexit/
Britain must contribute to EU budget until 2020 to secure favourable Brexit terms, says Whitehall source
Jesus condemns many things, principly hypocrisy, violence and greed, but is particularly harsh on those who rigidly apply scripture literally and without compassion. Anyone who has failed to notice this (including many Christian professors!) needs to do a bit more Bible study starting with Matthew!
Someone has finally force-fed him the words but he's not convincing or credible in his about-turn.
Sorry.
Your response is no different to Corbynistas complaining about the media focusing on issues they don't want to talk about in favour of the things they want to go on about, and how unfair that is. 'People like me' have only gone on about it because Farron chose to give obfuscating answers to very very simple questions, and then answered it simply which shows he could have avoided all of this in the first place.
It's a question of smart politics - he made an issue of something he did not need to, to the benefit of his opponents.
So tell me Mark, what sort of person am I? What do you mean by that? What is it I am attempting to do when I complain that Farron's lack of clarity is hurting them, and I'd like them to do better?
For clarity's sake, it should be obvious that 'the LDs need to get off this issue' means 'They need to get people to stop talking about it', not 'they need to stop bringing it up' .
Once more, we see the LD supporters actively driving people away from giving them their votes.
54% want Theresa May to take part in TV debates with other party leaders
25% Don't
Actual LOL, my wife asked what was so funny.
Is that the same sam tarry who got in a spot of bother in regards to where he lived and where he was registered to vote? I believe he was also involved in traingate.
Proud George Osborne ignored the whip, and voted to repeal Section 28.
But to Mark Senior, criticising the poor political operation of the LD leader in being so unclear until today is apparently unconscionable.