Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It is looking like Clinton’s firewall was as useful a defence

12357

Comments

  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    Interestingly, this kind of proves that Brexit is just part of a wider wave, and that the EU itself, like Hillary, was a casualty caught in it. The votes are anti-globalisation.

    Bernie may have done better but any mainstream democrat would have lost to Trump. This isn't about individual favorability.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    Sandpit said:

    Is the end for political polling? Discuss.

    Trump was never in the lead with any polls bar a couple around the conventions. Betfair never had him lower than 3 until a couple of hours ago. It's Brexit on steroids.

    I think the national polls finished with Clinton about 3-4 and she'll end up winning by 1-2.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Analysis on Beeb: Clinton may have been let down by millennials (who wanted Bernie) deserting her and voting - not necessarily for Trump - but Libertarian or Green. Sounds plausible.

    Suddenly it all makes sense. It's a little bit like the UK. One side of the argument is broadly united, the other divided.

    In this case, the united, social conservative half is arguably the minority, but the main progressive party haemorrhages votes to splinter factions. For Green and Libertarian, read Lib Dem and SNP.

    I'm probably indulging in oversimplification here, but you get where I'm coming from?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited November 2016
    AndyJS said:

    Looking forward to reading Nate Silver's post mortem on what went wrong with the polls.

    Goodhart's Law.

    People in the long run tend to abuse their position for their own personal beliefs and needs.

    Pollsters and the media abused their position once again peddling crap.
  • Interestingly, this kind of proves that Brexit is just part of a wider wave, and that the EU itself, like Hillary, was a casualty caught in it. The votes are anti-globalisation.

    Bernie may have done better but any mainstream democrat would have lost to Trump. This isn't about individual favorability.

    Pre-Brexit -- Corbyn, the SNP and almost independence.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,985

    Interestingly, this kind of proves that Brexit is just part of a wider wave, and that the EU itself, like Hillary, was a casualty caught in it. The votes are anti-globalisation.

    Bernie may have done better but any mainstream democrat would have lost to Trump. This isn't about individual favorability.

    It's alright being anti-globalisation. What do you do about it?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is the end for political polling? Discuss.

    Trump was never in the lead with any polls bar a couple around the conventions. Betfair never had him lower than 3 until a couple of hours ago. It's Brexit on steroids.

    I think the national polls finished with Clinton about 3-4 and she'll end up winning by 1-2.
    Yep National polls were correct enough.
  • Analysis on Beeb: Clinton may have been let down by millennials (who wanted Bernie) deserting her and voting - not necessarily for Trump - but Libertarian or Green. Sounds plausible.

    Suddenly it all makes sense. It's a little bit like the UK. One side of the argument is broadly united, the other divided.

    In this case, the united, social conservative half is arguably the minority, but the main progressive party haemorrhages votes to splinter factions. For Green and Libertarian, read Lib Dem and SNP.

    I'm probably indulging in oversimplification here, but you get where I'm coming from?
    It's nonsense. Far more Republicans will have voted Johnson than Democrats voted Stein. Trump's won because enough working class Democrats and non-voters have voted for him rather Hillary not because of third parties.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    Sandpit said:

    Is the end for political polling? Discuss.

    Trump was never in the lead with any polls bar a couple around the conventions. Betfair never had him lower than 3 until a couple of hours ago. It's Brexit on steroids.

    certainly not the end for political betters. "Volatility is your friend."
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    CNN is ridiculous, they still haven't called Utah for Trump even if he leads Eggs McMuffin by almost 30%.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,713
    MaxPB said:

    Once again the financial markets call it wrong

    Betting markets and polls (and Jack's ARSE!).
    Kudos to Rod Crosby who called it for Trump months ago
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,164
    In 2008, Paul Linford said that if Clinton was the Dem candidate, the election was the Republicans' to lose.

    I thought that was still true this year, particularly after emails.

    However, I will freely admit I thought the republicans had done more than enough to lose this election narrowly, especially the way demographics favoured Democrats in the EC. Clearly I was guilty of gravely underestimating the effect of 40 years of scandal and 20 years of failure.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,591
    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is the end for political polling? Discuss.

    Trump was never in the lead with any polls bar a couple around the conventions. Betfair never had him lower than 3 until a couple of hours ago. It's Brexit on steroids.

    I think the national polls finished with Clinton about 3-4 and she'll end up winning by 1-2.
    Only by piling votes up in California where they don't count.

    The pollsters screwed up bigly here, as they did in the UK at the refereddum and the last election.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    AndyJS said:
    it's like 1789 all over again! Vive La Revolution.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Interestingly, this kind of proves that Brexit is just part of a wider wave, and that the EU itself, like Hillary, was a casualty caught in it. The votes are anti-globalisation.

    Bernie may have done better but any mainstream democrat would have lost to Trump. This isn't about individual favorability.

    It's alright being anti-globalisation. What do you do about it?
    It looks like we are about to find out!

    Now Trump has to deliver. Like Leave.
  • OUTOUT Posts: 569
    ENG 102/3 at lunch.
  • Nigel Farage must seem like a god to the Trump team.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    Trump trumps frump as Donald is the real deal
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,155
    Trump 48k up in PA with 97%
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,591
    It seems the Clinton 'victory' rally was to be held in a building with a glass ceiling in NY, so she could make something of a point. Oh well. I wonder when she will be calling Donald Trump?
  • Sandpit said:

    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is the end for political polling? Discuss.

    Trump was never in the lead with any polls bar a couple around the conventions. Betfair never had him lower than 3 until a couple of hours ago. It's Brexit on steroids.

    I think the national polls finished with Clinton about 3-4 and she'll end up winning by 1-2.
    Only by piling votes up in California where they don't count.

    The pollsters screwed up bigly here, as they did in the UK at the refereddum and the last election.
    A couple of points isn't a huge fail.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    MaxPB said:

    Once again the financial markets call it wrong

    Betting markets and polls (and Jack's ARSE!).
    Kudos to Rod Crosby who called it for Trump months ago
    Hr called it on the basis of Trump pivoting to the centre.
  • Interestingly, this kind of proves that Brexit is just part of a wider wave, and that the EU itself, like Hillary, was a casualty caught in it. The votes are anti-globalisation.

    Bernie may have done better but any mainstream democrat would have lost to Trump. This isn't about individual favorability.

    It's alright being anti-globalisation. What do you do about it?
    Compete. For Britain we need 3 things:
    1. A White Heat of Technology approach. We can lead new technology on things like the environment
    2. A Dig for Britain approach. Pride in your community. Buy British grow British eat British
    3. A proper cost benefit analysis. Companies closing operations here to save pennies abroad has a higher cost on the nation - we need to pass that on. Corporation tax cuts if you pay a living wage and invest here. Tarrifs if you offshore operations and think you can continue to be here.

    Fundamentally politicians on both sides of the Atlantic are in thrall to a banker set who profit from globalisation with the cost imposed on nation states and on communities. It has to stop or we get Trump. And Le Pen. And worse
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,155
    edited November 2016
    RobD said:

    Trump 48k up in PA with 97%

    oops.. snip.
  • Analysis on Beeb: Clinton may have been let down by millennials (who wanted Bernie) deserting her and voting - not necessarily for Trump - but Libertarian or Green. Sounds plausible.

    Suddenly it all makes sense. It's a little bit like the UK. One side of the argument is broadly united, the other divided.

    In this case, the united, social conservative half is arguably the minority, but the main progressive party haemorrhages votes to splinter factions. For Green and Libertarian, read Lib Dem and SNP.

    I'm probably indulging in oversimplification here, but you get where I'm coming from?
    At GE2015, Con + UKIP was a majority, UK-wide (just!)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    Polls and prediction websites are consistently getting it wrong.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,713
    edited November 2016
    http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/states/pennsylvania/president

    In PA both Blair and Cameron voted for Trump

    as did Clinton
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    Who's got the video of the Norweigan football commentator? Maggie Thatcher et al, your boys took one hell of a beating.
  • The general impression I get is that Clinton and her supporters were too confident. Their claims reminded me of the article that used to keep getting posted here, about how Brown's Labour party couldn't possibly lose in 2010.

    Basically the Clinton camp seemed to be arrogantly assuming the election was theirs by right, an attitude that probably helped alienate many swing voters.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    And there has to be a Hitler parody with Hillary as the Fuhrer
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Frank Luntz and Nate Silver must be feeling a bit silly this morning.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,715
    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is the end for political polling? Discuss.

    Trump was never in the lead with any polls bar a couple around the conventions. Betfair never had him lower than 3 until a couple of hours ago. It's Brexit on steroids.

    I think the national polls finished with Clinton about 3-4 and she'll end up winning by 1-2.
    Trump still leads by 1.2% in the national popular vote with a third of California now in
  • The polling company with the "who will your neighbours vote for?" question may have been on to something.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,713
    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Once again the financial markets call it wrong

    Betting markets and polls (and Jack's ARSE!).
    Kudos to Rod Crosby who called it for Trump months ago
    Hr called it on the basis of Trump pivoting to the centre.
    I guess the centre just isnt where you thought it was
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654

    Sandpit said:

    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is the end for political polling? Discuss.

    Trump was never in the lead with any polls bar a couple around the conventions. Betfair never had him lower than 3 until a couple of hours ago. It's Brexit on steroids.

    I think the national polls finished with Clinton about 3-4 and she'll end up winning by 1-2.
    Only by piling votes up in California where they don't count.

    The pollsters screwed up bigly here, as they did in the UK at the refereddum and the last election.
    A couple of points isn't a huge fail.
    National polling was fine

    The rust belt polling utterly failed though.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Good morning all,

    When I went to bed Trump was losing Florida, aint it wonderful what 4 hours of sleep will do. :D
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,155
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is the end for political polling? Discuss.

    Trump was never in the lead with any polls bar a couple around the conventions. Betfair never had him lower than 3 until a couple of hours ago. It's Brexit on steroids.

    I think the national polls finished with Clinton about 3-4 and she'll end up winning by 1-2.
    Only by piling votes up in California where they don't count.

    The pollsters screwed up bigly here, as they did in the UK at the refereddum and the last election.
    A couple of points isn't a huge fail.
    National polling was fine

    The rust belt polling utterly failed though.
    Yeah, he won OH by almost 10 points!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    edited November 2016
    AndyJS said:

    Frank Luntz and Nate Silver must be feeling a bit silly this morning.

    Why would Nate be feeling a bit silly ?

    He predicted a wide wide ECV margin.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    Sandpit said:

    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is the end for political polling? Discuss.

    Trump was never in the lead with any polls bar a couple around the conventions. Betfair never had him lower than 3 until a couple of hours ago. It's Brexit on steroids.

    I think the national polls finished with Clinton about 3-4 and she'll end up winning by 1-2.
    Only by piling votes up in California where they don't count.

    The pollsters screwed up bigly here, as they did in the UK at the refereddum and the last election.
    Well yes national polls are really based around what the national results will be.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,155
    CNN finally called Utah for Trump!
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Frank Luntz and Nate Silver must be feeling a bit silly this morning.

    Why would Nate be feeling a bit silly ?

    He predicted a wide wide ECV margin.
    Media group think
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is the end for political polling? Discuss.

    Trump was never in the lead with any polls bar a couple around the conventions. Betfair never had him lower than 3 until a couple of hours ago. It's Brexit on steroids.

    I think the national polls finished with Clinton about 3-4 and she'll end up winning by 1-2.
    Only by piling votes up in California where they don't count.

    The pollsters screwed up bigly here, as they did in the UK at the refereddum and the last election.
    Well yes national polls are really based around what the national results will be.
    Wisconsin looks like a huge polling failure to me.
  • YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    edited November 2016

    Interestingly, this kind of proves that Brexit is just part of a wider wave, and that the EU itself, like Hillary, was a casualty caught in it. The votes are anti-globalisation.

    Bernie may have done better but any mainstream democrat would have lost to Trump. This isn't about individual favorability.

    It's alright being anti-globalisation. What do you do about it?
    Compete. For Britain we need 3 things:
    1. A White Heat of Technology approach. We can lead new technology on things like the environment
    2. A Dig for Britain approach. Pride in your community. Buy British grow British eat British
    3. A proper cost benefit analysis. Companies closing operations here to save pennies abroad has a higher cost on the nation - we need to pass that on. Corporation tax cuts if you pay a living wage and invest here. Tarrifs if you offshore operations and think you can continue to be here.

    Fundamentally politicians on both sides of the Atlantic are in thrall to a banker set who profit from globalisation with the cost imposed on nation states and on communities. It has to stop or we get Trump. And Le Pen. And worse
    No. That won't do. You won twice now with Brexit and now Trump. Congratulations. But you're in charge now. You have to stop Gobalisation like you promised. We'll be monitorng progress.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,164
    Republicans retain the House.

    Whether they'll work with Trump is another question, but if they do assuming the Senate stays red - which seems a very safe assumption - he's going to be extremely powerful, more so than any president since George W. Bush before Katrina.
  • OUTOUT Posts: 569
    White man speak with forked tongue. Well to pollsters he does.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Interestingly, this kind of proves that Brexit is just part of a wider wave, and that the EU itself, like Hillary, was a casualty caught in it. The votes are anti-globalisation.

    Bernie may have done better but any mainstream democrat would have lost to Trump. This isn't about individual favorability.

    I can understand why people are angry and upset but there isn't really anything that can be done about globalisation. Trump's supporters are probably going to end up being disappointed with him before long.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,985
    edited November 2016

    Interestingly, this kind of proves that Brexit is just part of a wider wave, and that the EU itself, like Hillary, was a casualty caught in it. The votes are anti-globalisation.

    Bernie may have done better but any mainstream democrat would have lost to Trump. This isn't about individual favorability.

    It's alright being anti-globalisation. What do you do about it?
    Compete. For Britain we need 3 things:
    1. A White Heat of Technology approach. We can lead new technology on things like the environment
    2. A Dig for Britain approach. Pride in your community. Buy British grow British eat British
    3. A proper cost benefit analysis. Companies closing operations here to save pennies abroad has a higher cost on the nation - we need to pass that on. Corporation tax cuts if you pay a living wage and invest here. Tarrifs if you offshore operations and think you can continue to be here.

    Fundamentally politicians on both sides of the Atlantic are in thrall to a banker set who profit from globalisation with the cost imposed on nation states and on communities. It has to stop or we get Trump. And Le Pen. And worse
    An interesting set of ?policies?, thanks. The problem is I think they're pretty much unworkable, at least for a country our size. That's not being defeatist; it's a sign of how interconnected the world has become.

    It may well be more possible for the US.

    Edit: besides, that does nothing about globalisation. It may offset he worst effects of it, but it's not 'anti-globalisation'; especially if a more prosperous UK increases exports.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    OUT said:

    White man speak with forked tongue. Well to pollsters he does.

    Biggest polling failure = Wisconsin, probably the most white Democrat unexpected Trumpsters too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,164
    edited November 2016
    This is the funniest political statement since Michael Gove accused Boris Johnson of lacking judgement:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/AshleySemlerBBC/status/796230889558732800
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    AndyJS said:

    Interestingly, this kind of proves that Brexit is just part of a wider wave, and that the EU itself, like Hillary, was a casualty caught in it. The votes are anti-globalisation.

    Bernie may have done better but any mainstream democrat would have lost to Trump. This isn't about individual favorability.

    I can understand why people are angry and upset but there isn't really anything that can be done about globalisation. Trump's supporters are probably going to end up being disappointed with him before long.
    At which point they swing to the right.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Crooked Hillary 1000 ahead in New Hampshire now
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    I feel that the networks will refuse to call the election for Trump.
    Even if Trump wins by 1% in PA with just 3% left.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Pulpstar said:

    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is the end for political polling? Discuss.

    Trump was never in the lead with any polls bar a couple around the conventions. Betfair never had him lower than 3 until a couple of hours ago. It's Brexit on steroids.

    I think the national polls finished with Clinton about 3-4 and she'll end up winning by 1-2.
    Only by piling votes up in California where they don't count.

    The pollsters screwed up bigly here, as they did in the UK at the refereddum and the last election.
    Well yes national polls are really based around what the national results will be.
    Wisconsin looks like a huge polling failure to me.
    Still can't believe that Hillary didn't set foot in the state during the campaign.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,715

    Has Obama's legacy died tonight

    Trump will keep gay marriage and in foreign policy is arguably further from George W Bush than Obama. If his victory is confirmed it will not only be a devastating defeat for the Clintons and the Democratic establishment, the Democrats will now certainly shift to the populist left but also a devastating defeat for the Bushes and the GOP establishment. Trump is a nationalist and protectionist and question marks must also be asked about the future of NAFTA and the WTO as well as the EU post Brexit if the nationalist wave boosts Le Pen and Wilders too
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    AndyJS said:

    Interestingly, this kind of proves that Brexit is just part of a wider wave, and that the EU itself, like Hillary, was a casualty caught in it. The votes are anti-globalisation.

    Bernie may have done better but any mainstream democrat would have lost to Trump. This isn't about individual favorability.

    I can understand why people are angry and upset but there isn't really anything that can be done about globalisation. Trump's supporters are probably going to end up being disappointed with him before long.
    What is the analysis here.

    I mean if Comey doesn't send his letter does Clinton win?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    I hope Hillary can win Maine, Minnesota and New Hampshire.

    On £15/ECV :o
  • AndyJS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is the end for political polling? Discuss.

    Trump was never in the lead with any polls bar a couple around the conventions. Betfair never had him lower than 3 until a couple of hours ago. It's Brexit on steroids.

    I think the national polls finished with Clinton about 3-4 and she'll end up winning by 1-2.
    Only by piling votes up in California where they don't count.

    The pollsters screwed up bigly here, as they did in the UK at the refereddum and the last election.
    Well yes national polls are really based around what the national results will be.
    Wisconsin looks like a huge polling failure to me.
    Still can't believe that Hillary didn't set foot in the state during the campaign.
    This election has overturned a number of previous assumptions as to what's needed to win, to put it mildly.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    AndyJS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is the end for political polling? Discuss.

    Trump was never in the lead with any polls bar a couple around the conventions. Betfair never had him lower than 3 until a couple of hours ago. It's Brexit on steroids.

    I think the national polls finished with Clinton about 3-4 and she'll end up winning by 1-2.
    Only by piling votes up in California where they don't count.

    The pollsters screwed up bigly here, as they did in the UK at the refereddum and the last election.
    Well yes national polls are really based around what the national results will be.
    Wisconsin looks like a huge polling failure to me.
    Still can't believe that Hillary didn't set foot in the state during the campaign.
    You can't blame them for feeling taken for granted.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    AndyJS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is the end for political polling? Discuss.

    Trump was never in the lead with any polls bar a couple around the conventions. Betfair never had him lower than 3 until a couple of hours ago. It's Brexit on steroids.

    I think the national polls finished with Clinton about 3-4 and she'll end up winning by 1-2.
    Only by piling votes up in California where they don't count.

    The pollsters screwed up bigly here, as they did in the UK at the refereddum and the last election.
    Well yes national polls are really based around what the national results will be.
    Wisconsin looks like a huge polling failure to me.
    Still can't believe that Hillary didn't set foot in the state during the campaign.
    Touch complacement, just assumed it would fall Democrat.

    An interesting point to note is that the polls tightened towards Trump, both statewide and nationally - but barely any had him ahead, so it was less noted..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,715
    Pulpstar said:

    OUT said:

    White man speak with forked tongue. Well to pollsters he does.

    Biggest polling failure = Wisconsin, probably the most white Democrat unexpected Trumpsters too.
    Survey Monkey had Trump ahead in Wisconsin by 1% on Saturday
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Hillary looking good in Minnesota :D
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,155
    Pulpstar said:

    Hillary looking good in Minnesota :D

    Crumbs of comfort! Wonder when we are going to get the concession.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,155
    Trump up 59k in PA, still at 97% in.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Hillary looking good in Minnesota :D

    Crumbs of comfort! Wonder when we are going to get the concession.
    Crumbs ?

    Its £150 I'll save !

  • Compete. For Britain we need 3 things:
    1. A White Heat of Technology approach. We can lead new technology on things like the environment
    2. A Dig for Britain approach. Pride in your community. Buy British grow British eat British
    3. A proper cost benefit analysis. Companies closing operations here to save pennies abroad has a higher cost on the nation - we need to pass that on. Corporation tax cuts if you pay a living wage and invest here. Tarrifs if you offshore operations and think you can continue to be here.

    Fundamentally politicians on both sides of the Atlantic are in thrall to a banker set who profit from globalisation with the cost imposed on nation states and on communities. It has to stop or we get Trump. And Le Pen. And worse

    No. That won't do. You won twice now with Brexit and now Trump. Congratulations. By you're in charge now. You have to stop Gobalisation like you promised. We'll be monitorng progress.
    People both like and dislike globalisation. Globalisation can't be stopped entirely. Nor can you cherry-pick so that we only get the good aspects of globalisation (access to cheap goods and services, we all get richer) and completely avoid the bad (various forms of social and economic dislocation). But it is possible to prioritise what voters desire.

    One example with respect to Brexit: mass unskilled immigration with no government power to limit numbers is an aspect of globalisation that most people are not entirely happy with. Implementing it was a poor policy choice (on the behalf of the EU, or the EU national leaders who had the power to stop it) and it may well prove to be one of the things that brings down the EU as we know it. Post-Brexit it becomes a policy choice for the UK government, or whatever's left of it.

    It's incorrect to think there are zero policy choices and nothing anybody can do about anything. There is a limited policy space, and there are certainly costs associated with policies, but it's not beyond the wit of government to change the face of globalisation and its lived experience within the UK.
  • Just off to work. Gonna be stuck in a BA set all day so I'm going to miss all the fun.
    That Clinton rally looks like a wake. How will the US pull itself together now that half its population is deplorable?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    OUT said:

    White man speak with forked tongue. Well to pollsters he does.

    Biggest polling failure = Wisconsin, probably the most white Democrat unexpected Trumpsters too.
    Survey Monkey had Trump ahead in Wisconsin by 1% on Saturday
    They had Hillary winning 51-44 all the time nationally.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,155

    Just off to work. Gonna be stuck in a BA set all day so I'm going to miss all the fun.
    That Clinton rally looks like a wake. How will the US pull itself together now that half its population is deplorable?

    We're all deplorables now? :p
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,164
    Pundit bewildered by Trump's win because Twitter was always lambasting him.

    To quote Talleyrand, they have learned nothing...

    I thought he would lose, but that was hardly an indicator of popularity or not.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    RobD said:

    Trump up 59k in PA, still at 97% in.

    Call the d@mn thing already, it's morning.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,155
    Speedy said:

    RobD said:

    Trump up 59k in PA, still at 97% in.

    Call the d@mn thing already, it's morning.
    I need to go to bed as I have to be at work early tomorrow!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,155
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited November 2016
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,909
    RobD said:
    The CNN political editor was somewhat unconvincingly arguing that Trump would follow Paul Ryan's agenda.
  • Hope nobody lost too much money tonight!
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    And a protectionist, isolationist government. What happened next to the American economy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,164
    edited November 2016
    They held all of them in 2004 as well!

    (Not, as Charles points out, that either is a happy parallel).

    Edit - also Eisenhower in 1952 I think. Don't know who Ann Coulter is but she's clearly done no research.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,715
    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is the end for political polling? Discuss.

    Trump was never in the lead with any polls bar a couple around the conventions. Betfair never had him lower than 3 until a couple of hours ago. It's Brexit on steroids.

    I think the national polls finished with Clinton about 3-4 and she'll end up winning by 1-2.
    Only by piling votes up in California where they don't count.

    The pollsters screwed up bigly here, as they did in the UK at the refereddum and the last election.
    Well yes national polls are really based around what the national results will be.
    Trump presently leads the national popular vote by almost 1. 5 million votes with over a third of California having now reported
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited November 2016

    Hope nobody lost too much money tonight!

    Depending on how many dip shits vote Stein in California my betting roll is wiped out.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Hillary pulling away in New Hampshire :D
  • Nearly had heart attack just now when I thought I saw Trump out to 42 -- but it is Hillary -- Betfair swapped them round in their lists.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2016
    It seems obvious now that what Clinton should have done was to ignore Trump completely and just focus on her own policies. By taking on Trump she was doing exactly what he and his supporters wanted.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    So France is going to go bankrupt.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    The thought of Le Pen opening it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,715
    Perhaps President Le Pen can open them?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited November 2016
    Finally someone has called it:

    https://twitter.com/DecisionDeskHQ/status/796229649344954368

    Trump is President.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    AndyJS said:

    It seems obvious now that what Clinton should have done was to ignore Trump completely and just focus on her own policies. By taking on Trump she was doing exactly what he and his supporters wanted.

    The lack of last minute scandal to throw at Trump on the weekend was a big miss.
  • Careful -- the French will soon be voting as well.
  • Hope it's not being cheeky to ask - how did people do betting wise?

    I've made my biggest ever single-event profit of about £1660 (prev best was £1100 on Nadal v Federer at Australia 2009).
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited November 2016

    Hope nobody lost too much money tonight!

    I didn't do too badly. My Spin lost only a free bet of £50, and I backed Trump at 5.7 yesterday, and in all of the great lakes states inc Pennsylvania. I think about £250 up overall. I lost on a few states but never thought there was much value in Hillary. Mike did well to bale out of the Spin when he did. My equities will take a bit of a battering, but I have been bearish on US and Asian stocks.



  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    And here is probably the official anthem of President Trump:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wxyN3z9PL4
  • HYUFD said:

    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    corporeal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Is the end for political polling? Discuss.

    Trump was never in the lead with any polls bar a couple around the conventions. Betfair never had him lower than 3 until a couple of hours ago. It's Brexit on steroids.

    I think the national polls finished with Clinton about 3-4 and she'll end up winning by 1-2.
    Only by piling votes up in California where they don't count.

    The pollsters screwed up bigly here, as they did in the UK at the refereddum and the last election.
    Well yes national polls are really based around what the national results will be.
    Trump presently leads the national popular vote by almost 1. 5 million votes with over a third of California having now reported
    In a way, I hope he does win the popular vote, however marginal.

    It will hang over this election like a bad smell if the EC/Popular Vote is split again, and make it even harder for the country to come together (harder than it already is!)
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Waiting for Godot in Pennsylvania...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,155
    Speedy said:

    Finally someone has called it:

    https://twitter.com/DecisionDeskHQ/status/796229649344954368

    Trump is President.

    The Trump Train has arrived at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. This train terminates here.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Aussie stock exchange down 2%. Hang Seng and Bombay both off by 3%. the Nikkei is down by over 5%, presumably due to the appreciation of the Yen.

    Given that it is virtually certain that Trump will win, I'm surprised (and relieved) that it's not worse. Hopefully means there won't be a rout when the bourses open in Europe.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,155
    He's now up 70k in PA.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    edited November 2016
    I'm not sure what the delay is in declaring Pennsylvania. Surely any minute now.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,909
    Louise Mensch ‏@LouiseMensch 5m

    Evan McMullin came second in Utah; Mitt Romney must examine his conscience, his silence cost evan the state. @MittRomney
This discussion has been closed.