Surely that's game over? If the military insurrection controls all key transport and communications the government are literally unable to do anything even if there are loyal troops.
Somebody very senior and very good is behind this if it's got this far in barely an hour.
Because breaking news is boring - I was thinking about the Foreign office earlier today - does Brexit mean that there is going to need to be a big increase in the Foreign office budget. Do we not subcontract a large amount of our embassy/consular work to the EU (or at least do a lot of sharing of buildings etc in smaller countries)? Or do we actually still have a fully functioning operation in countries around the world?
Brexit will cost a fortune and use up most of the money we used to pay the EU - sorry NHS.
On topic, as Emperor Kahless said Destroying an Empire to win a war is no victory. And ending a battle to save an Empire is no defeat , I do wonder if the Conservative and UNIONIST Party will decide destroying the UK is too high a price for Brexit
It remains possible. Interesting that May's first official visit as PM was to Bute House. I wonder how many Brexiteers on here would consider a UK split it a price worth paying?
Not me, but the Nats beat me long ago and I saw it as inevitable. If May could save the Union, definitively, I would consider Remaining a price worth paying.
So I've been consumed with the made up politics of the Dragon Age universe for the last several hours, what's going down in Turkey? I thought the military had been hobbled there for awhile, and Erdogan popularly backed.
Surely that's game over? If the military insurrection controls all key transport and communications the government are literally unable to do anything even if there are loyal troops.
Somebody very senior and very good is behind this if it's got this far in barely an hour.
It must depend - if the police and irregulars remain loyal to the previous government then it could become very unpleasant.
On topic, as Emperor Kahless said Destroying an Empire to win a war is no victory. And ending a battle to save an Empire is no defeat , I do wonder if the Conservative and UNIONIST Party will decide destroying the UK is too high a price for Brexit
It remains possible. Interesting that May's first official visit as PM was to Bute House. I wonder how many Brexiteers on here would consider a UK split it a price worth paying?
I say it is. Sad to see Scotland go, but as Sean said the tail can't wag the dog.
On topic, as Emperor Kahless said Destroying an Empire to win a war is no victory. And ending a battle to save an Empire is no defeat , I do wonder if the Conservative and UNIONIST Party will decide destroying the UK is too high a price for Brexit
It remains possible. Interesting that May's first official visit as PM was to Bute House. I wonder how many Brexiteers on here would consider a UK split it a price worth paying?
May was summoned, she did not do the summoning. The balance of power has been fairly clear for quite some time.
Military taking over for "democratic order, and for human rights to be maintained".
Standards Military Junta talk, rarely goes well. No doubt the functions of state will be carried out by some drearily named body, like the Committee for the Establishment of National Harmony.
Surely that's game over? If the military insurrection controls all key transport and communications the government are literally unable to do anything even if there are loyal troops.
Somebody very senior and very good is behind this if it's got this far in barely an hour.
It must depend - if the police and irregulars remain loyal to the previous government then it could become very unpleasant.
With due respect to the Turkish police, they would stand no chance of fighting jets and tanks. I do not think many would be stupid enough to try either.
On topic, as Emperor Kahless said Destroying an Empire to win a war is no victory. And ending a battle to save an Empire is no defeat , I do wonder if the Conservative and UNIONIST Party will decide destroying the UK is too high a price for Brexit
It remains possible. Interesting that May's first official visit as PM was to Bute House. I wonder how many Brexiteers on here would consider a UK split it a price worth paying?
I say it is. Sad to see Scotland go, but as Sean said the tail can't wag the dog.
Pretty everything's a price worth paying to the Brexiteers. It's all they care about, leaving the bloody EU.
Military taking over for "democratic order, and for human rights to be maintained".
Standards Military Junta talk, rarely goes well. No doubt the functions of state will be carried out by some drearily named body, like the Committee for the Establishment of National Harmony.
Turkish army will protect Ataturk's legacy at all costs. It's hardly the first time they've done this.
On topic, as Emperor Kahless said Destroying an Empire to win a war is no victory. And ending a battle to save an Empire is no defeat , I do wonder if the Conservative and UNIONIST Party will decide destroying the UK is too high a price for Brexit
It remains possible. Interesting that May's first official visit as PM was to Bute House. I wonder how many Brexiteers on here would consider a UK split it a price worth paying?
May was summoned, she did not do the summoning. The balance of power has been fairly clear for quite some time.
May capitulated to Nicola today.
Absolute rubbish - she and Nicola were acting as grown ups unlike yourself
Military taking over for "democratic order, and for human rights to be maintained".
Standards Military Junta talk, rarely goes well. No doubt the functions of state will be carried out by some drearily named body, like the Committee for the Establishment of National Harmony.
Since Ataturk the Turkish military have been guardians of their constitution and have had coups repeatedly and so far successfully. If Erdogan is gone then that could be a very good thing.
Military taking over for "democratic order, and for human rights to be maintained".
Standards Military Junta talk, rarely goes well. No doubt the functions of state will be carried out by some drearily named body, like the Committee for the Establishment of National Harmony.
The Turkish military have what might be called a "positive" history. Certainly in terms of what their occasional interventions in democracy have meant for the West.
Military taking over for "democratic order, and for human rights to be maintained".
Standards Military Junta talk, rarely goes well. No doubt the functions of state will be carried out by some drearily named body, like the Committee for the Establishment of National Harmony.
Turkish army will protect Ataturk's legacy at all costs. It's hardly the first time they've done this.
No, but I had thought they'd lost the power to try it. Apparently not. The people keep electing the wrong people though, apparently. Tis every thus, with democracies.
Having had to spend the last two years building our own rural broadband network, fibre-to-the-home, delighted that Ed Vaizey has paid the price for BDUK fiasco...
On topic, as Emperor Kahless said Destroying an Empire to win a war is no victory. And ending a battle to save an Empire is no defeat , I do wonder if the Conservative and UNIONIST Party will decide destroying the UK is too high a price for Brexit
It remains possible. Interesting that May's first official visit as PM was to Bute House. I wonder how many Brexiteers on here would consider a UK split it a price worth paying?
May was summoned, she did not do the summoning. The balance of power has been fairly clear for quite some time.
May capitulated to Nicola today.
Absolute rubbish - she and Nicola were acting as grown ups unlike yourself
Oh, has May contested Nicola's statement about her capitulation?
May has not. So we know which way the wind blew. May capitulated, although it still won't be enough to stop the UK being dissolved.
Sky - Military have taken over according to Reuters.
BBC quoting that statement as well. Big talk about human rights, which suggests it is about secularism/Islamism.
Problem is even if they start with high ideals, military coups end in corruption and dictatorship (cf Musharraf).
Although Turkey is possibly very different because of its history in this respect?
It would be nice to think so, but you could make the same comment about chile, or Argentina, or Egypt, or Spain. And that wasn't true.
Admittedly Turkey has a stronger democratic tradition than their countries but if the military itself is divided...
I meant in the sense that they've got a history of intervening when elected governments start to deviate from the constitution, and haven't generally hung around for longer than necessary.
Sky - Military have taken over according to Reuters.
BBC quoting that statement as well. Big talk about human rights, which suggests it is about secularism/Islamism.
Problem is even if they start with high ideals, military coups end in corruption and dictatorship (cf Musharraf).
Although Turkey is possibly very different because of its history in this respect?
It would be nice to think so, but you could make the same comment about chile, or Argentina, or Egypt, or Spain. And that wasn't true.
Admittedly Turkey has a stronger democratic tradition than their countries but if the military itself is divided...
Ataturk is a semi-divine figure. I think it is unlikely the military is divided. Maybe some of the leaders of the military but they will have already been "neutralised".
If the PM's still free and making statements, the coup's not going well, right? You need to lock down the opposition right from the start, I'd have thought. And if you cannot...
If the PM's still free and making statements, the coup's not going well, right? You need to lock down the opposition right from the start, I'd have thought. And if you cannot...
May I remind you of the Iraqi information minister?
Military taking over for "democratic order, and for human rights to be maintained".
Standards Military Junta talk, rarely goes well. No doubt the functions of state will be carried out by some drearily named body, like the Committee for the Establishment of National Harmony.
Since Ataturk the Turkish military have been guardians of their constitution and have had coups repeatedly and so far successfully. If Erdogan is gone then that could be a very good thing.
True, but I recall how euphoric people were at the Sisi coup over Morsi and he has rapidly backslid into typical military dictatorship ways. The military can never claim any legitimacy so they eventually can only rule with a big stick. Undoubtedly the fewer islamists in power the better, but this may not be particularly good news for the turks.
Sky - Military have taken over according to Reuters.
BBC quoting that statement as well. Big talk about human rights, which suggests it is about secularism/Islamism.
Problem is even if they start with high ideals, military coups end in corruption and dictatorship (cf Musharraf).
Although Turkey is possibly very different because of its history in this respect?
It would be nice to think so, but you could make the same comment about chile, or Argentina, or Egypt, or Spain. And that wasn't true.
Admittedly Turkey has a stronger democratic tradition than their countries but if the military itself is divided...
I meant in the sense that they've got a history of intervening when elected governments start to deviate from the constitution, and haven't generally hung around for longer than necessary.
But it looks as though this isn't the whole military, just a section of it. Which also suggests a power struggle may follow. Which means each side will entrench,and be afraid to give up power for fear of reprisals.
It also tells me that the Turkish system of government is inadequate if every ten years or so you need the army to seize power and put it back together.
Having had to spend the last two years building our own rural broadband network, fibre-to-the-home, delighted that Ed Vaizey has paid the price for BDUK fiasco...
So Dave was right, Brexit would lead to wars, coups, and instability in Europe
A coup is ( yet another ) major step away from Accession. Another Leave lie shown for what it was.
I know you are frustrated but it's unfair to accuse the Leavers of lying because they didn't anticipate a coup in Turkey
That is true, although false impressions created about how soon Turkey might join - usually based of diplomatic pronouncements that of course were optimistic - was one of the bolder untruths of the Leave campaign. The immigration angle was strong enough regardless, I don't know why they even bothered.
If the PM's still free and making statements, the coup's not going well, right? You need to lock down the opposition right from the start, I'd have thought. And if you cannot...
May I remind you of the Iraqi information minister?
You have to remember that Erdogan has purged the senior generals at least once (I think its twice but don't my googlefu is failing me) to replace them with ones loyal to him.. As such the senior generals are not that supported
Comments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junta_(game)
Somebody very senior and very good is behind this if it's got this far in barely an hour.
Today.
Is there a play being made from the Quai D'Orsay?
Cue spooky music.
Problem is even if they start with high ideals, military coups end in corruption and dictatorship (cf Musharraf).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binali_Yıldırım
May capitulated to Nicola today.
Local conspiracy theory in Turkey: " its a false flag coup so Erdogan can defeat the fake coup and seize more power"
Admittedly Turkey has a stronger democratic tradition than their countries but if the military itself is divided...
Not really followed the political situation in Turkey but did/does Erdogan have decent public support? Will the Turkish population support this coup?
We shall be called the Keyboard Warriors, and your despotic regime shall tremble at our biting online criticism.
May has not. So we know which way the wind blew. May capitulated, although it still won't be enough to stop the UK being dissolved.
Police attempting to block Military movements on and around the Bosphorus. Civil War?
A blast in Ankara police special forces training center.
A mistress leaves a player open to a character assassination card. Cor!
It also tells me that the Turkish system of government is inadequate if every ten years or so you need the army to seize power and put it back together.
They could be supported by France or Russia (or, possibly, both).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fethullah_Gülen
May be an officers coup.
But it's very successful so far.
Nevermind, Keep Calm And Brexit On.