Ambulances at the office of the General Staff indicate it could be terrorism related rather than a coup.
Or an Erdogan loyalist put up a fight.
At the moment, we're all speculating but it's perhaps significant that even after yesterday's massacre in France a quick look at Twitter suggests most informed experts are guessing at a coup.
Mark urban (Newsnight) is retweeting a Turkish twitter account of some media person & they have loads of pictures / footage of the army out in force on the streets.
Personal view is that Trump will do very well in the rust belt: Pennsylvania, Ohio, Missouri, Wisconsin, etc.
But that he'll fail in Nevada, and Florida. Given how the Mormons feel about Trump, take the 100-1 on the Republicans to lose Utah.
Trump will easily win Missouri - +10-12
Clinton wins PA WI NV FL - +5-7 .. Ohio +3-5
I'd be tempted to give OH to Trump but then both my brother and I lost money last time by under-betting you on the EC vote Jack. You would think we'd learned our lesson!
If Jack is as reliable on US elections as he was on UK GE2015, I must look ASAP for a bookmaker who'll take bets on individual US states!
What's puzzling is that Reuter is saying this is in the Turkish capital, which is of course Ankara.
Has one of their writers got muddled, or is there a coup in progress (which is the only explanation I can think of for both cities descending into chaos)?
I've heard that it is Istanbul, Izmir and Ankara that have been secured by the Gendarme (military police).
Personal view is that Trump will do very well in the rust belt: Pennsylvania, Ohio, Missouri, Wisconsin, etc.
But that he'll fail in Nevada, and Florida. Given how the Mormons feel about Trump, take the 100-1 on the Republicans to lose Utah.
Trump will easily win Missouri - +10-12
Clinton wins PA WI NV FL - +5-7 .. Ohio +3-5
I'd be tempted to give OH to Trump but then both my brother and I lost money last time by under-betting you on the EC vote Jack. You would think we'd learned our lesson!
If Jack is as reliable on US elections as he was on UK GE2015, I must look ASAP for a bookmaker who'll take bets on individual US states!
He is solid. He actually slightly undercooked the Democratic EC vote last time IIRC but he was very close. He will tell you I'm sure.
The opposition have the most unenviable position of the lot if it is a coup. Do they support the constitution and by extension Erdogan, who would undoubtedly use a defeated coup as an excuse to further emasculate them, or support the military and look like unprincipled shysters while likely gaining nothing in return?
Because breaking news is boring - I was thinking about the Foreign office earlier today - does Brexit mean that there is going to need to be a big increase in the Foreign office budget. Do we not subcontract a large amount of our embassy/consular work to the EU (or at least do a lot of sharing of buildings etc in smaller countries)? Or do we actually still have a fully functioning operation in countries around the world?
Both Sky and BBC failing to respond to the latest news.
To be fair Sky have broken away to report briefly (with promise to return when they have more). BBC have absolutely nothing so far, even on their ticker.
Personal view is that Trump will do very well in the rust belt: Pennsylvania, Ohio, Missouri, Wisconsin, etc.
But that he'll fail in Nevada, and Florida. Given how the Mormons feel about Trump, take the 100-1 on the Republicans to lose Utah.
Trump will easily win Missouri - +10-12
Clinton wins PA WI NV FL - +5-7 .. Ohio +3-5
I'd be tempted to give OH to Trump but then both my brother and I lost money last time by under-betting you on the EC vote Jack. You would think we'd learned our lesson!
If Jack is as reliable on US elections as he was on UK GE2015, I must look ASAP for a bookmaker who'll take bets on individual US states!
So what happens if there is a stalemate. Some of the generals are loyal to Erdogan, surely they won't direct their units into the coup. If the army is split then this could end very, very badly.
What's puzzling is that Reuter is saying this is in the Turkish capital, which is of course Ankara.
Has one of their writers got muddled, or is there a coup in progress (which is the only explanation I can think of for both cities descending into chaos)?
I've heard that it is Istanbul, Izmir and Ankara that have been secured by the Gendarme (military police).
That's starting to look like a coup. But for or against Erdogan?
So Turkey won't be joining the E.U after all. Lol Not that anyone thought they would soon.
A coup could make eventual accession more likely not less.
Indeed, if the military are about to oust the AKP then it makes Turkey joining the EU much more likely.
They won't admit a military dictatorship, because it wouldn't meet any of the accession criteria, so I'm not sure I agree with you.
(I was going to make jokey post about Turks revolting because they're cross they're not in the EU yet, as was promised by the Leave campaign in the UK.)
Is it just me...the media and labour keep pushing this narrative that because of brexit vote we now live in a massively divided nation. I am going to guess if we votes to.remain we wouldn't be hearing this. But on a real world level I can't say my day to day life and my contact with people is any different. My experience is.much more as described by the lady from the economist on Newsnight the other day, most people in Britain were / are somewhere in the middle, have accepted the result & gone back to their normal lives.
That's because you voted leave dude..
Did I? And my day to day life is surrounded by people who overwhelmingly voted to remain. I joked on the Friday of spending the day at one of the countries leading unis & expecting to see academics having to be talked down off roofs etc. In fact what I found was disappointment but determination to crack on. And the message has been one of little immediate change & projects that were already agreed going ahead.
No buttons have been pressed as yet, and the date of button pressing is receding to...., well after New Year. In the absence of button pressing life must go on, no? Make hay whilst the sun shines etc...
This is likely to turn very nasty. Civil war seems possible if the army is divided. It may be Boris is going to be secretly grateful to ISIS for making so many British tourists holiday elsewhere.
BBC still reporting the lorry attack as 'breaking' FFS!!!
BBC: Turkey's PM has denounced an "illegal action" by a military "group", with bridges closed in Istanbul and aircraft flying low over the capital, Ankara. Binali Yildirim said the military action was not authorised but it was not a coup. He said that the government remained in charge.
There are also reports of gunshots in the capital Ankara.
On topic, as Emperor Kahless said Destroying an Empire to win a war is no victory. And ending a battle to save an Empire is no defeat , I do wonder if the Conservative and UNIONIST Party will decide destroying the UK is too high a price for Brexit
So Dave was right, Brexit would lead to wars, coups, and instability in Europe
A coup is ( yet another ) major step away from Accession. Another Leave lie shown for what it was.
How could Leave have known about the coup?
They couldn't have. But anyone who reads a Newspaper knows Turkey has been moving away from the Accession criteria not toward them. A coup is part of a clear trend.
What's puzzling is that Reuter is saying this is in the Turkish capital, which is of course Ankara.
Has one of their writers got muddled, or is there a coup in progress (which is the only explanation I can think of for both cities descending into chaos)?
I've heard that it is Istanbul, Izmir and Ankara that have been secured by the Gendarme (military police).
That's starting to look like a coup. But for or against Erdogan?
So Turkey won't be joining the E.U after all. Lol Not that anyone thought they would soon.
A coup could make eventual accession more likely not less.
Indeed, if the military are about to oust the AKP then it makes Turkey joining the EU much more likely.
They won't admit a military dictatorship, because it wouldn't meet any of the accession criteria, so I'm not sure I agree with you.
(I was going to make jokey post about Turks revolting because they're cross they're not in the EU yet, as was promised by the Leave campaign in the UK.)
Rule of the Greek colonels ended: 1974 Greece joined EEC: 1981
Rule of Estado Novo ended: 1974 Portugal joined EEC: 1986
Rule of Franco ended: 1975 Spain joined EEC: 1986
Turkey is clearly far more than a decade away from joining the EU but it may well be that a brief military regime that redirects the country away from its current path (increasingly authoritarian and anti-secular, a sort of quasi-democracy) speeds up the process. Even 5 years of military rule followed by a decade of more-or-less "on-track" democratic rule might be enough to get Turkey's accession back on again.
On topic, as Emperor Kahless said Destroying an Empire to win a war is no victory. And ending a battle to save an Empire is no defeat , I do wonder if the Conservative and UNIONIST Party will decide destroying the UK is too high a price for Brexit
It remains possible. Interesting that May's first official visit as PM was to Bute House. I wonder how many Brexiteers on here would consider a UK split it a price worth paying?
Comments
At the moment, we're all speculating but it's perhaps significant that even after yesterday's massacre in France a quick look at Twitter suggests most informed experts are guessing at a coup.
Burnishes TOTY medals with aplomb ....
(I was going to make jokey post about Turks revolting because they're cross they're not in the EU yet, as was promised by the Leave campaign in the UK.)
https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedNews/status/754045212658368512
I guess there's going to be a second COBRA meeting in the space of 24 hours.
EDIT: briefly
Information that I'm getting right now is that this is a western backed coup.
BBC still reporting the lorry attack as 'breaking' FFS!!!
In 08 my single error was Missouri Obama +1 and McCain edged it +0.25 and in 12 I handed Romney Florida by +1 and Obama edged it +1
Keeps me honest !! ..
Update - Turkey's PM Binali Yildirim says those responsible for what appears to be an attempted coup "will pay the highest price"
Also tanks are on the way to Ankara right now.
Binali Yildirim said the military action was not authorised but it was not a coup. He said that the government remained in charge.
There are also reports of gunshots in the capital Ankara.
And how would Obama suddenly grow the massive pair of cojones required to sponsor a coup in a NATO state?
Greece joined EEC: 1981
Rule of Estado Novo ended: 1974
Portugal joined EEC: 1986
Rule of Franco ended: 1975
Spain joined EEC: 1986
Turkey is clearly far more than a decade away from joining the EU but it may well be that a brief military regime that redirects the country away from its current path (increasingly authoritarian and anti-secular, a sort of quasi-democracy) speeds up the process. Even 5 years of military rule followed by a decade of more-or-less "on-track" democratic rule might be enough to get Turkey's accession back on again.
Flights are being delayed which may be a sign they hold the airports.
This looks a lot more serious than a few rogues with hardware. It looks big and well-organised.
Numbers now key.