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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,563
    PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Any criteria? Like having a job in an industry that Unite operates in, or something equally stupid like that.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,019

    PlatoSaid said:

    Joe Rich
    Angela Eagle just revealed Labour's polling on @BBCNewsnight-14% down in the marginals @CllrRuthRosenau @mark_stokie72 @campbellclaret

    All lies.
    Can someone cleverer than me estimate what the would mean in terms of seats?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,251

    As a one nation Cameroon Tory this is what I'm going to be like tomorrow

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccsNr9UJeVY

    Get a grip man! It was bad enough with the UKIPLeadsomites on Monday.....take a tip from our glorious new leader - nothing wrong with a little bit of bottling things up....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662
    Can I just say how glad I am that Tom Watson, the most backstabbing mendacious disgusting deceitful toad ever to have disgraced parliament has been done over today ?
  • LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Lol, every time I try and get away and go watch some telly, new awesome ridiculousness appears.

    Politics needs a break. It's just impossible to keep up!
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Danny565 said:

    Again, seriously, can ANYONE watch this Newsnight interview and really say with a straight face that Eagle is more electable than Corbyn?

    Neither of them is electable. Only one of them is interested in Labour being a Parliamentary party that may be electable in the future.

    Only one would resign for the good of the party if called upon to do so.
    Indeed. However Labour probably need another candidate as many members don't grasp the nuance of that, especially those who were toying with the idea of relinquishing support for Corbyn.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    As a one nation Cameroon Tory this is what I'm going to be like tomorrow

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccsNr9UJeVY

    Will that be your young lady when you confess to her that you are a Tory?
    She knows I'm a Tory.
    That was a joke, by the way. If she is OK with the footwear, you are all set. :smiley:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    SMukesh said:

    Feeling more optimistic with reversal of the leadership rules-The 3 quidders were just making a mockery of the contest.

    Got the 2 quidders this time around!
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Stitch up vs stitch up..even cheaper than £3 this time around!
    We need more QE to deal with such serious deflation.
  • LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941

    PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Stitch up vs stitch up..even cheaper than £3 this time around!
    Pretty soon, various factions will be offering to pay us to join their gerrymander.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662

    SMukesh said:

    Feeling more optimistic with reversal of the leadership rules-The 3 quidders were just making a mockery of the contest.

    Got the 2 quidders this time around!
    Ahahahaha
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    Pulpstar said:

    Can I just say how glad I am that Tom Watson, the most backstabbing mendacious disgusting deceitful toad ever to have disgraced parliament has been done over today ?

    Hear, hear
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Any criteria? Like having a job in an industry that Unite operates in, or something equally stupid like that.
    Nope. Includes unwaged/unemployed.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Artist said:

    Danny565 said:

    OllyT said:

    AndyJS said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:



    My seat in the North West has a Labour majority of 96 and I reckon the Tories will win it by well over 5000 in 2020 if Corbyn is still there.

    Chester?
    Well done, sir!

    Actually I reckon it will be nearer 10,000
    It was odd how Labour gained Chester while losing Vale of Clwyd just down the road.
    Neighbouring Wirral West was also one of the few Labour gains in 2015. We were one of the areas where Labour did OK last time. Doubt Labour has a prayer of holding either in 2020 with Corbyn
    Except in the May local elections, Corbyn's Labour made gains across the Wirral, and they also gained the Cheshire PCC (which I would assume meant a strong performance in Chester itself, since the deep shire Cheshire is a desert for Labour).
    Labour notionally lost Wirral West in May

    http://www.fabians.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/The-message-from-the-marginals.pdf

    Will be hard for Labour to hold even if they're doing OK
    As that article states, they always do much worse on the Wirral in council elections than they do in general elections. In 2010, they came 3rd in Wirral South in the council elections, on the very same day that they (narrowly) held the Westminster seat.

    "Posh scousers" often vote Tory on a local level to keep their council tax low, but can't bring themselves to vote for the Tory bastards at a national level.
  • NoEasyDayNoEasyDay Posts: 454
    glw said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Joe Rich
    Angela Eagle just revealed Labour's polling on @BBCNewsnight-14% down in the marginals @CllrRuthRosenau @mark_stokie72 @campbellclaret

    All lies.
    Can someone cleverer than me estimate what the would mean in terms of seats?
    Oh my god......we are in "its alll different inthe marginals." AGAIN.
    This has been disproved in the last two elections, why can even morons believe this now.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    MontyHall said:

    Angela Eagles is much, much worse than Corbyn.

    Labour should let him lose the next GE and hope Chuka, Ed Balls or D Miliband are in a position to take over

    Do you seriously think Corbyn will resign when Labour is destroyed at the next GE?

    No. He will fight on, win or lose, about the things that matter. Split the party. Only hope now.
  • MontyHallMontyHall Posts: 226

    MontyHall said:

    MontyHall said:

    Angela Eagles is much, much worse than Corbyn.

    Labour should let him lose the next GE and hope Chuka, Ed Balls or D Miliband are in a position to take over

    Do you seriously think Corbyn will resign when Labour is destroyed at the next GE?

    I think he would lose in a leadership contest in that scenario, especially if up against a candidate with an ounce of gravitas

    Really? Seriously? By that time the hard left will have full control and there will have been any number of deselections. What's more, the results of general elections are of little interest to parties that do not aspire to govern through Parliament.

    Best chance Labour have IMO.

    Corbyn would be a proven loser up against a possible winner, and the students would be bored of voting for him. At the moment he has not been given a chance to fail and the choice is arguably worse
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759

    SMukesh said:

    Feeling more optimistic with reversal of the leadership rules-The 3 quidders were just making a mockery of the contest.

    Got the 2 quidders this time around!
    Is that right? Just read the NEC changed it to 25 quid.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Pulpstar said:

    Can I just say how glad I am that Tom Watson, the most backstabbing mendacious disgusting deceitful toad ever to have disgraced parliament has been done over today ?

    Shouldn’t you be hiding behind parliamentary privilege when you say things like that?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662
    edited July 2016
    I'm actually feeling sorry for Tony Blair now.

    My God, no wonder he went to war with Iraq.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,410
    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Bwhahaha.. delicious :D


    "Comrades, this is your Leadership Candidate. It is an honour to speak to you today, and I am honoured to be sailing with you on the maiden voyage of our motherland's most recent achievement. Once more, we play our dangerous game, a game of chess against our old adversary — The Conservative Party. For a hundred years, your fathers before you and your older brothers played this game and played it well. But today the game is different. We have the advantage. It reminds me of the heady days of 1945 and Clement Attlee, when the world trembled at the sound of our Nationalisations! Well, they will tremble again — at the sound of our Progressiveness. The order is: engage the Corbyn Drive!

    "Comrades, our own Parliamentary Party doesn't know our full potential. They will do everything possible to test us; but they will only test their own embarrassment. We will leave our MPs behind, we will pass through the Conservative patrols, past their sonar nets, and lay off their largest constituency, and listen to their chortling and tittering... while we conduct Austerity Debates! Then, and when we are finished, the only sound they will hear is our laughter, while we sail to Brighton, where the sun is warm, and so is the... Comradeship!

    "A great day, Comrades! We sail into history!"
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662
    SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    Feeling more optimistic with reversal of the leadership rules-The 3 quidders were just making a mockery of the contest.

    Got the 2 quidders this time around!
    Is that right? Just read the NEC changed it to 25 quid.
    Uncle Len's loophole.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,726
    Danny565 said:

    Artist said:

    Danny565 said:

    OllyT said:

    AndyJS said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:



    My seat in the North West has a Labour majority of 96 and I reckon the Tories will win it by well over 5000 in 2020 if Corbyn is still there.

    Chester?
    Well done, sir!

    Actually I reckon it will be nearer 10,000
    It was odd how Labour gained Chester while losing Vale of Clwyd just down the road.
    Neighbouring Wirral West was also one of the few Labour gains in 2015. We were one of the areas where Labour did OK last time. Doubt Labour has a prayer of holding either in 2020 with Corbyn
    Except in the May local elections, Corbyn's Labour made gains across the Wirral, and they also gained the Cheshire PCC (which I would assume meant a strong performance in Chester itself, since the deep shire Cheshire is a desert for Labour).
    Labour notionally lost Wirral West in May

    http://www.fabians.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/The-message-from-the-marginals.pdf

    Will be hard for Labour to hold even if they're doing OK
    As that article states, they always do much worse on the Wirral in council elections than they do in general elections. In 2010, they came 3rd in Wirral South in the council elections, on the very same day that they (narrowly) held the Westminster seat.

    "Posh scousers" often vote Tory on a local level to keep their council tax low, but can't bring themselves to vote for the Tory bastards at a national level.
    Corbyn could well end up Foot 1983 to Miliband's Kinnock 1987, or even worse, in which case a number of Labour seats would be up for grabs by the Tories, LDs and UKIP
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Any criteria? Like having a job in an industry that Unite operates in, or something equally stupid like that.
    Nope. Includes unwaged/unemployed.
    To be honest, I think McCluskey has done the right thing. The new Labour rules were designed to raise money and disenfranchise people who paid in good faith for a certain level of participation that has been taken away from them with no notice or justification.

    McCluskey is restoring that right.
  • NoEasyDayNoEasyDay Posts: 454

    As a one nation Cameroon Tory this is what I'm going to be like tomorrow

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccsNr9UJeVY

    Will that be your young lady when you confess to her that you are a Tory?
    She knows I'm a Tory.
    A tory that likes knocking up voters, in the grand back to basics tradition.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    Soon to be announced...labour membership available when you compare the meerkat, to go along with your cuddly toy and he cheap cinema tickets!
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    As far as I can see, Eagles is a genuinely repressive figure. She not merely voted for the War in Iraq (which is perhaps excusable on the grounds that she was lied to) but she voted against an Inquiry (which is unforgivable).

    Corbyn is preferable to Eagles.

    Owen Smith would have had a better chance of beating Corbyn.

    And the rules for who can vote for the leader are so arcane that if the result is close, this is just gonna end up in court.

    My feeling is if Corbyn retains the support of the Trade Union leaders, he will win this again.
  • LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    Feeling more optimistic with reversal of the leadership rules-The 3 quidders were just making a mockery of the contest.

    Got the 2 quidders this time around!
    Is that right? Just read the NEC changed it to 25 quid.
    They did.

    Now Unite are offering a scheme for people to vote through Unite for £2.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662

    PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Any criteria? Like having a job in an industry that Unite operates in, or something equally stupid like that.
    Nope. Includes unwaged/unemployed.
    To be honest, I think McCluskey has done the right thing. The new Labour rules were designed to raise money and disenfranchise people who paid in good faith for a certain level of participation that has been taken away from them with no notice or justification.

    McCluskey is restoring that right.
    :+1:
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Lowlander said:

    BigRich said:


    Who knows???? anybody seen the betting odds on the outcome yet?

    Corbyn to be leader on 1st Jan 2017 currently 1/3 with Ladbrokes.
    Thanks,

    Is there a market for the other 2?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,450
    Danny565 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MontyHall said:

    Angela Eagles is much, much worse than Corbyn.

    Labour should let him lose the next GE and hope Chuka, Ed Balls or D Miliband are in a position to take over

    I think the idea is that Angela has got to be Michael Howard to Jezza's IDS (i.e with Jezza they may be totally wiped out, with Angie they will lose of course but will live to fight another day)

    I'd have thought someone like Harriet Harman would make a more plausible Michael Howard though....
    The thing is, I see it as the exact opposite. Corbyn would not win a general election, but he would atleast IMO save most current Labour seats (as shown in the OK but unspectacular results in the council elections in May). He doesn't have any interest or ability in winning anyone beyond the core Labour vote, but at least he does have some basic appeal to that core vote. Another defeat for Labour, but atleast enough of the furniture saved for a potential future win if a good leader eventually turns up.

    On the other hand, Eagle with a Remain-style strategy would royally piss off huge tranches of the core vote who are desperate for some kind of change from the status quo, while her complete lack of charisma would mean she would be unable to win over any other voters to compensate for the loss of core votes. A massive defeat, putting Labour out of business forever, all so the PLP get to feel they won their ego battle with the membership.
    You don't need to convince me Comrade! :smiley:
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited July 2016
    Lowlander said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Stitch up vs stitch up..even cheaper than £3 this time around!
    Pretty soon, various factions will be offering to pay us to join their gerrymander.
    Maybe one of these for free

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hooty-TM-HOO-BRO-1-Brown-Heatable/dp/B0087D6VNC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1468362502&sr=8-2&keywords=owl

  • BigIanBigIan Posts: 198
    Pulpstar said:

    Can I just say how glad I am that Tom Watson, the most backstabbing mendacious disgusting deceitful toad ever to have disgraced parliament has been done over today ?

    Anyone going to challenge him, do you think?
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    As far as I can see, Eagles is a genuinely repressive figure. She not merely voted for the War in Iraq (which is perhaps excusable on the grounds that she was lied to) but she voted against an Inquiry (which is unforgivable).

    Corbyn is preferable to Eagles.

    Owen Smith would have had a better chance of beating Corbyn.

    And the rules for who can vote for the leader are so arcane that if the result is close, this is just gonna end up in court.

    My feeling is if Corbyn retains the support of the Trade Union leaders, he will win this again.

    Corbyn will win. It's certain.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    As a one nation Cameroon Tory this is what I'm going to be like tomorrow

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccsNr9UJeVY

    Will that be your young lady when you confess to her that you are a Tory?
    She knows I'm a Tory.
    Did she burn her "never kissed a Tory" tshirt yet?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662
    BigIan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can I just say how glad I am that Tom Watson, the most backstabbing mendacious disgusting deceitful toad ever to have disgraced parliament has been done over today ?

    Anyone going to challenge him, do you think?
    For the deputyship ?

    Clive Lewis should give it a go. Though of course he will need 50 signatures which he may not get.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,563
    Bedtime. No doubt there'll be a new set of rules about who can vote by the morning. This really isn't fair on betting folks. Maybe we should do a class action?
  • LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941

    Lowlander said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Stitch up vs stitch up..even cheaper than £3 this time around!
    Pretty soon, various factions will be offering to pay us to join their gerrymander.
    Maybe one of these for free

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hooty-TM-HOO-BRO-1-Brown-Heatable/dp/B0087D6VNC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1468362502&sr=8-2&keywords=owl

    Wow, a Superb Owl.
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672

    Jobabob said:

    kle4 said:

    I really hope it's true that May is going to give Damien Green the Culture job. That will get the anti-BBC right wing nutters red-faced with fury.

    How so, what's his story?
    Very europhile, leftwing Tory. I had breakfast with him once, randomly. Really nice guy – one of the nicest MPs you'll ever meet.

    He is Chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary BBC Group

    Wasn't he arrested with the approval of a Labour Home Secretary?

    Is he out now?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    Pulpstar said:

    BigIan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can I just say how glad I am that Tom Watson, the most backstabbing mendacious disgusting deceitful toad ever to have disgraced parliament has been done over today ?

    Anyone going to challenge him, do you think?
    For the deputyship ?

    Clive Lewis should give it a go. Though of course he will need 50 signatures which he may not get.
    Lewis needs to just be an MP. Learn his craft. This is not the time for a novice...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662

    Bedtime. No doubt there'll be a new set of rules about who can vote by the morning. This really isn't fair on betting folks. Maybe we should do a class action?

    No, all of it is perfectly fair on us bettors. We need to consider underhand tactics in our strategies.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Any criteria? Like having a job in an industry that Unite operates in, or something equally stupid like that.
    Nope. Includes unwaged/unemployed.
    To be honest, I think McCluskey has done the right thing. The new Labour rules were designed to raise money and disenfranchise people who paid in good faith for a certain level of participation that has been taken away from them with no notice or justification.

    McCluskey is restoring that right.
    Yeah, the £25 came across as big FU to the low waged, unemployed, young, etc...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662

    Pulpstar said:

    BigIan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can I just say how glad I am that Tom Watson, the most backstabbing mendacious disgusting deceitful toad ever to have disgraced parliament has been done over today ?

    Anyone going to challenge him, do you think?
    For the deputyship ?

    Clive Lewis should give it a go. Though of course he will need 50 signatures which he may not get.
    Lewis needs to just be an MP. Learn his craft. This is not the time for a novice...
    Deputy leader of the Labour party with no prospect of Gov't is precisely the right place for a novice.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    edited July 2016

    As far as I can see, Eagles is a genuinely repressive figure. She not merely voted for the War in Iraq (which is perhaps excusable on the grounds that she was lied to) but she voted against an Inquiry (which is unforgivable).

    Corbyn is preferable to Eagles.

    Owen Smith would have had a better chance of beating Corbyn.

    And the rules for who can vote for the leader are so arcane that if the result is close, this is just gonna end up in court.

    My feeling is if Corbyn retains the support of the Trade Union leaders, he will win this again.


    Smith is 11/5 on Betfair, he's surely standing. My thinking is that Eagle will attack Corbyn, whilst Smith will be the 'competent' alternative.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662

    PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Any criteria? Like having a job in an industry that Unite operates in, or something equally stupid like that.
    Nope. Includes unwaged/unemployed.
    To be honest, I think McCluskey has done the right thing. The new Labour rules were designed to raise money and disenfranchise people who paid in good faith for a certain level of participation that has been taken away from them with no notice or justification.

    McCluskey is restoring that right.
    Yeah, the £25 came across as big FU to the low waged, unemployed, young, etc...
    No prizes for guessing one of the NEC who voted that one through.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662
    edited July 2016
    Artist said:

    As far as I can see, Eagles is a genuinely repressive figure. She not merely voted for the War in Iraq (which is perhaps excusable on the grounds that she was lied to) but she voted against an Inquiry (which is unforgivable).

    Corbyn is preferable to Eagles.

    Owen Smith would have had a better chance of beating Corbyn.

    And the rules for who can vote for the leader are so arcane that if the result is close, this is just gonna end up in court.

    My feeling is if Corbyn retains the support of the Trade Union leaders, he will win this again.


    Smith is 11/5 on Betfair, he's surely standing. My thinking is that Eagle will attack Corbyn, whilst Smith will be the 'competent' alternative.
    I think he is a lay at those odds. Too short.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Pulpstar said:

    BigIan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can I just say how glad I am that Tom Watson, the most backstabbing mendacious disgusting deceitful toad ever to have disgraced parliament has been done over today ?

    Anyone going to challenge him, do you think?
    For the deputyship ?

    Clive Lewis should give it a go. Though of course he will need 50 signatures which he may not get.
    I might be only 15% rather than 20%, but DYOR.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Lowlander said:

    Lowlander said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Stitch up vs stitch up..even cheaper than £3 this time around!
    Pretty soon, various factions will be offering to pay us to join their gerrymander.
    Maybe one of these for free

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hooty-TM-HOO-BRO-1-Brown-Heatable/dp/B0087D6VNC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1468362502&sr=8-2&keywords=owl

    Wow, a Superb Owl.
    Yeah, it's cute.
  • BigIanBigIan Posts: 198

    Pulpstar said:

    BigIan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can I just say how glad I am that Tom Watson, the most backstabbing mendacious disgusting deceitful toad ever to have disgraced parliament has been done over today ?

    Anyone going to challenge him, do you think?
    For the deputyship ?

    Clive Lewis should give it a go. Though of course he will need 50 signatures which he may not get.
    I might be only 15% rather than 20%, but DYOR.
    I'm just surprised I've not heard it mooted.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    Big length warned earlier this afternoon about attempts at a sordid fix...fairly clear what he thinks of these new rules on membership!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,784

    PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Any criteria? Like having a job in an industry that Unite operates in, or something equally stupid like that.
    Nope. Includes unwaged/unemployed.
    To be honest, I think McCluskey has done the right thing. The new Labour rules were designed to raise money and disenfranchise people who paid in good faith for a certain level of participation that has been taken away from them with no notice or justification.

    McCluskey is restoring that right.

    It's £2 a month with a year's commitment. It's been going for about four years now.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,161

    PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Any criteria? Like having a job in an industry that Unite operates in, or something equally stupid like that.
    Nope. Includes unwaged/unemployed.
    To be honest, I think McCluskey has done the right thing. The new Labour rules were designed to raise money and disenfranchise people who paid in good faith for a certain level of participation that has been taken away from them with no notice or justification.

    McCluskey is restoring that right.

    It's £2 a month with a year's commitment. It's been going for about four years now.
    You'd only a quid better off then. Unless this is a new £2 thing?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    Has Labour got enough money left to run another leadership election?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Pulpstar said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Any criteria? Like having a job in an industry that Unite operates in, or something equally stupid like that.
    Nope. Includes unwaged/unemployed.
    To be honest, I think McCluskey has done the right thing. The new Labour rules were designed to raise money and disenfranchise people who paid in good faith for a certain level of participation that has been taken away from them with no notice or justification.

    McCluskey is restoring that right.
    Yeah, the £25 came across as big FU to the low waged, unemployed, young, etc...
    No prizes for guessing one of the NEC who voted that one through.
    Ah, Argula.

    I need @AndreaParma_82 on at this time.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,784
    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Any criteria? Like having a job in an industry that Unite operates in, or something equally stupid like that.
    Nope. Includes unwaged/unemployed.
    To be honest, I think McCluskey has done the right thing. The new Labour rules were designed to raise money and disenfranchise people who paid in good faith for a certain level of participation that has been taken away from them with no notice or justification.

    McCluskey is restoring that right.

    It's £2 a month with a year's commitment. It's been going for about four years now.
    You'd only a quid better off then. Unless this is a new £2 thing?

    It doesn't look like it - or not yet, anyway. The current Unite Community scheme has ben going for four years.

    Of course, anyone will be able to sign up if it does exist. The anti-Corbyn people will promote is as hard as the Corbyn people do.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    Big length could also fudge it so no years commitment or cancel anytime in first 3 months etc.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Has Labour got enough money left to run another leadership election?

    Probably not, which is why they’ve upped the price for buying a vote?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    BigIan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    BigIan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can I just say how glad I am that Tom Watson, the most backstabbing mendacious disgusting deceitful toad ever to have disgraced parliament has been done over today ?

    Anyone going to challenge him, do you think?
    For the deputyship ?

    Clive Lewis should give it a go. Though of course he will need 50 signatures which he may not get.
    I might be only 15% rather than 20%, but DYOR.
    I'm just surprised I've not heard it mooted.
    That is what Wikipedia said, so maybe not a good source of info for serious betters.

    For all I know, they might have had a rule change banning people with a BMI of less than 35 standing for the position.
  • bunncobunnco Posts: 169

    Pulpstar said:

    BigIan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can I just say how glad I am that Tom Watson, the most backstabbing mendacious disgusting deceitful toad ever to have disgraced parliament has been done over today ?

    Anyone going to challenge him, do you think?
    For the deputyship ?

    Clive Lewis should give it a go. Though of course he will need 50 signatures which he may not get.
    I might be only 15% rather than 20%, but DYOR.
    Dear oh dear. I bumped into Clive Lewis on Milbank this afternoon.
    I asked him when he was going to come and see me.
    'Why would I want to Do that?' he asked
    'because I lead the Council in part of your constituency' I replied

    He really has no idea.

    bunnco. your man on the spot
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Dylan Strain
    Len McCluskey, has opened up a £2.00 registered supporters scheme with Unite Community. Meaning you don't have to spend £25 joining Labour.

    Any criteria? Like having a job in an industry that Unite operates in, or something equally stupid like that.
    Nope. Includes unwaged/unemployed.
    To be honest, I think McCluskey has done the right thing. The new Labour rules were designed to raise money and disenfranchise people who paid in good faith for a certain level of participation that has been taken away from them with no notice or justification.

    McCluskey is restoring that right.

    It's £2 a month with a year's commitment. It's been going for about four years now.
    You'd only a quid better off then. Unless this is a new £2 thing?

    It doesn't look like it - or not yet, anyway. The current Unite Community scheme has ben going for four years.

    Of course, anyone will be able to sign up if it does exist. The anti-Corbyn people will promote is as hard as the Corbyn people do.

    So some PBers just celebrated something which has been around for four years? LOL. You're right though, McCluskey will be promoting this for the next two months.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    I was out running a rehearsal this evening - and was just gobsmacked at how mental Labour has managed to be this evening. As one of the characters in the play says:

    'If this was on the stage right now, I would condemn is as an improbable fiction'
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672
    edited July 2016
    Jobabob said:

    As far as I can see, Eagles is a genuinely repressive figure. She not merely voted for the War in Iraq (which is perhaps excusable on the grounds that she was lied to) but she voted against an Inquiry (which is unforgivable).

    Corbyn is preferable to Eagles.

    Owen Smith would have had a better chance of beating Corbyn.

    And the rules for who can vote for the leader are so arcane that if the result is close, this is just gonna end up in court.

    My feeling is if Corbyn retains the support of the Trade Union leaders, he will win this again.

    Corbyn will win. It's certain.
    Well, that's good news for the people, surely?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,740
    How is Labour's website going to cope with potentially 100,000+ people trying to register as supporters within a 2 day window?
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited July 2016
    shiney2 said:

    Jobabob said:

    As far as I can see, Eagles is a genuinely repressive figure. She not merely voted for the War in Iraq (which is perhaps excusable on the grounds that she was lied to) but she voted against an Inquiry (which is unforgivable).

    Corbyn is preferable to Eagles.

    Owen Smith would have had a better chance of beating Corbyn.

    And the rules for who can vote for the leader are so arcane that if the result is close, this is just gonna end up in court.

    My feeling is if Corbyn retains the support of the Trade Union leaders, he will win this again.

    Corbyn will win. It's certain.
    Well, that's good news, surely?
    Well, some of us want a functioning opposition (it seems others for various political reasons don't). A one-party nation isn't really in anyone's interests (I'm intrigued to hear arguments as to how it even could be, tbqh).
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    MikeL said:

    How is Labour's website going to cope with potentially 100,000+ people trying to register as supporters within a 2 day window?

    It won't. And so they will have to extend it - just like they demanded the extension of registration for the Referendum....
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    MikeL said:

    How is Labour's website going to cope with potentially 100,000+ people trying to register as supporters within a 2 day window?

    If it crashes that'll be the excuse given as to why everyone didn't get to successfully register.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    bunnco said:

    Pulpstar said:

    BigIan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can I just say how glad I am that Tom Watson, the most backstabbing mendacious disgusting deceitful toad ever to have disgraced parliament has been done over today ?

    Anyone going to challenge him, do you think?
    For the deputyship ?

    Clive Lewis should give it a go. Though of course he will need 50 signatures which he may not get.
    I might be only 15% rather than 20%, but DYOR.
    Dear oh dear. I bumped into Clive Lewis on Milbank this afternoon.
    I asked him when he was going to come and see me.
    'Why would I want to Do that?' he asked
    'because I lead the Council in part of your constituency' I replied

    He really has no idea.

    bunnco. your man on the spot
    Maybe the second line threw him a bit. :flushed:
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    bunnco said:

    Pulpstar said:

    BigIan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can I just say how glad I am that Tom Watson, the most backstabbing mendacious disgusting deceitful toad ever to have disgraced parliament has been done over today ?

    Anyone going to challenge him, do you think?
    For the deputyship ?

    Clive Lewis should give it a go. Though of course he will need 50 signatures which he may not get.
    I might be only 15% rather than 20%, but DYOR.
    Dear oh dear. I bumped into Clive Lewis on Milbank this afternoon.
    I asked him when he was going to come and see me.
    'Why would I want to Do that?' he asked
    'because I lead the Council in part of your constituency' I replied

    He really has no idea.

    bunnco. your man on the spot
    Shows the calibre of the man
  • Shadsy has introduced a nice touch of betting humour into tomorrow's proceedings at PMQs, whereby Ladbrokes offer the following two way market:

    Corbyn to stand and applaud Cameron ................... 3/1
    Corbyn NOT to stand and applaud Cameron ........... 1/5

    As someone once said, you decide!

    P.S. There are also a whole range of Buzz Bingo words/phrases, which Cameron may or may not utter, none of which appeal in terms of offering value.
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672

    shiney2 said:

    Jobabob said:

    As far as I can see, Eagles is a genuinely repressive figure. She not merely voted for the War in Iraq (which is perhaps excusable on the grounds that she was lied to) but she voted against an Inquiry (which is unforgivable).

    Corbyn is preferable to Eagles.

    Owen Smith would have had a better chance of beating Corbyn.

    And the rules for who can vote for the leader are so arcane that if the result is close, this is just gonna end up in court.

    My feeling is if Corbyn retains the support of the Trade Union leaders, he will win this again.

    Corbyn will win. It's certain.
    Well, that's good news, surely?
    Well, some of us want a functioning opposition (it seems others for various political reasons don't). A one-party nation isn't really in anyone's interests (I'm intrigued to hear arguments as to how it even could be, tbqh).
    The mobilisation of the will of the people is surely in the interest of the people.. How can it be otherwise?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662

    Shadsy has introduced a nice touch of betting humour into tomorrow's proceedings at PMQs, whereby Ladbrokes offer the following two way market:

    Corbyn to stand and applaud Cameron ................... 3/1
    Corbyn NOT to stand and applaud Cameron ........... 1/5

    As someone once said, you decide!

    P.S. There are also a whole range of Buzz Bingo words/phrases, which Cameron may or may not utter, none of which appeal in terms of offering value.

    I backed NOT at longer odds earlier today, £20 to win 8.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    Cameron's last full day as Pm included visiting one of the 300 free schools his government created. Apparently he was to spend the next 2 months before bowing out talking about "life chances" and publishing a paper on it. Telegraph: "It meant more to him than Europe ever did."

    Why doesn't May make Dave Education Secretary?

    Or am I being silly?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Shadsy has introduced a nice touch of betting humour into tomorrow's proceedings at PMQs, whereby Ladbrokes offer the following two way market:

    Corbyn to stand and applaud Cameron ................... 3/1
    Corbyn NOT to stand and applaud Cameron ........... 1/5

    As someone once said, you decide!

    P.S. There are also a whole range of Buzz Bingo words/phrases, which Cameron may or may not utter, none of which appeal in terms of offering value.

    What if he sat and briefly applauded?
  • bunnco said:

    Pulpstar said:

    BigIan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can I just say how glad I am that Tom Watson, the most backstabbing mendacious disgusting deceitful toad ever to have disgraced parliament has been done over today ?

    Anyone going to challenge him, do you think?
    For the deputyship ?

    Clive Lewis should give it a go. Though of course he will need 50 signatures which he may not get.
    I might be only 15% rather than 20%, but DYOR.
    Dear oh dear. I bumped into Clive Lewis on Milbank this afternoon.
    I asked him when he was going to come and see me.
    'Why would I want to Do that?' he asked
    'because I lead the Council in part of your constituency' I replied

    He really has no idea.

    bunnco. your man on the spot
    bunnco - it sounds rather as if it was Clive Lewis who was put on the spot on this occasion!
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    I don't find it particularly edifying to see someone who aspires to become a resident of Downing Street using such language at a public event. It is not plain-speaking, it just not what I expect of someone who wants to lead.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,662

    bunnco said:

    Pulpstar said:

    BigIan said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can I just say how glad I am that Tom Watson, the most backstabbing mendacious disgusting deceitful toad ever to have disgraced parliament has been done over today ?

    Anyone going to challenge him, do you think?
    For the deputyship ?

    Clive Lewis should give it a go. Though of course he will need 50 signatures which he may not get.
    I might be only 15% rather than 20%, but DYOR.
    Dear oh dear. I bumped into Clive Lewis on Milbank this afternoon.
    I asked him when he was going to come and see me.
    'Why would I want to Do that?' he asked
    'because I lead the Council in part of your constituency' I replied

    He really has no idea.

    bunnco. your man on the spot
    bunnco - it sounds rather as if it was Clive Lewis who was put on the spot on this occasion!
    Yeah but did Bunnco get called a jumped up turd :D ?
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    shiney2 said:

    Jobabob said:

    As far as I can see, Eagles is a genuinely repressive figure. She not merely voted for the War in Iraq (which is perhaps excusable on the grounds that she was lied to) but she voted against an Inquiry (which is unforgivable).

    Corbyn is preferable to Eagles.

    Owen Smith would have had a better chance of beating Corbyn.

    And the rules for who can vote for the leader are so arcane that if the result is close, this is just gonna end up in court.

    My feeling is if Corbyn retains the support of the Trade Union leaders, he will win this again.

    Corbyn will win. It's certain.
    Well, that's good news, surely?
    Well, some of us want a functioning opposition (it seems others for various political reasons don't). A one-party nation isn't really in anyone's interests (I'm intrigued to hear arguments as to how it even could be, tbqh).
    So then why do you want to replace Corbyn with an even less electable leader?
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    shiney2 said:

    shiney2 said:

    Jobabob said:

    As far as I can see, Eagles is a genuinely repressive figure. She not merely voted for the War in Iraq (which is perhaps excusable on the grounds that she was lied to) but she voted against an Inquiry (which is unforgivable).

    Corbyn is preferable to Eagles.

    Owen Smith would have had a better chance of beating Corbyn.

    And the rules for who can vote for the leader are so arcane that if the result is close, this is just gonna end up in court.

    My feeling is if Corbyn retains the support of the Trade Union leaders, he will win this again.

    Corbyn will win. It's certain.
    Well, that's good news, surely?
    Well, some of us want a functioning opposition (it seems others for various political reasons don't). A one-party nation isn't really in anyone's interests (I'm intrigued to hear arguments as to how it even could be, tbqh).
    The mobilisation of the will of the people is surely in the interest of the people.. How can it be otherwise?
    Well it's the will of the members. Whether it's the will of people as a whole is a different thing....
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Danny565 said:

    shiney2 said:

    Jobabob said:

    As far as I can see, Eagles is a genuinely repressive figure. She not merely voted for the War in Iraq (which is perhaps excusable on the grounds that she was lied to) but she voted against an Inquiry (which is unforgivable).

    Corbyn is preferable to Eagles.

    Owen Smith would have had a better chance of beating Corbyn.

    And the rules for who can vote for the leader are so arcane that if the result is close, this is just gonna end up in court.

    My feeling is if Corbyn retains the support of the Trade Union leaders, he will win this again.

    Corbyn will win. It's certain.
    Well, that's good news, surely?
    Well, some of us want a functioning opposition (it seems others for various political reasons don't). A one-party nation isn't really in anyone's interests (I'm intrigued to hear arguments as to how it even could be, tbqh).
    So then why do you want to replace Corbyn with an even less electable leader?
    Oh god, I have already had that debate with you and contested your argument in regard to 'less electable'. If don't agree with my points then fine, but I've already attempted to answer your question many times today.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    Danny565 said:

    shiney2 said:

    Jobabob said:

    As far as I can see, Eagles is a genuinely repressive figure. She not merely voted for the War in Iraq (which is perhaps excusable on the grounds that she was lied to) but she voted against an Inquiry (which is unforgivable).

    Corbyn is preferable to Eagles.

    Owen Smith would have had a better chance of beating Corbyn.

    And the rules for who can vote for the leader are so arcane that if the result is close, this is just gonna end up in court.

    My feeling is if Corbyn retains the support of the Trade Union leaders, he will win this again.

    Corbyn will win. It's certain.
    Well, that's good news, surely?
    Well, some of us want a functioning opposition (it seems others for various political reasons don't). A one-party nation isn't really in anyone's interests (I'm intrigued to hear arguments as to how it even could be, tbqh).
    So then why do you want to replace Corbyn with an even less electable leader?
    Smith or Eagle may well be less electable - but they represent a move away from Momentum and the move towards a mob mentality in the membership which is leading to violence.

    Electable or not, that is an important step forward.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    shiney2 said:

    Jobabob said:

    As far as I can see, Eagles is a genuinely repressive figure. She not merely voted for the War in Iraq (which is perhaps excusable on the grounds that she was lied to) but she voted against an Inquiry (which is unforgivable).

    Corbyn is preferable to Eagles.

    Owen Smith would have had a better chance of beating Corbyn.

    And the rules for who can vote for the leader are so arcane that if the result is close, this is just gonna end up in court.

    My feeling is if Corbyn retains the support of the Trade Union leaders, he will win this again.

    Corbyn will win. It's certain.
    Well, that's good news, surely?
    Well, some of us want a functioning opposition (it seems others for various political reasons don't). A one-party nation isn't really in anyone's interests (I'm intrigued to hear arguments as to how it even could be, tbqh).
    So then why do you want to replace Corbyn with an even less electable leader?
    Oh god, I have already had that debate with you and contested your argument in regard to 'less electable'. If don't agree with my points then fine, but I've already attempted to answer your question many times today.
    With respect, it was you who just brought up a strawman argument of your own, by saying "it seems others for various political reasons don't want a functioning opposition".

    Most of us Labour posters have not said that we "don't want a functioning opposition", we just have a very different opinion to you on whether Corbyn or Eagle would be the best functioning opposition and which get a better General Election result (with the disaster of the Remain campaign in most Labour seats as supporting evidence).
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672
    edited July 2016

    Cameron's last full day as Pm included visiting one of the 300 free schools his government created. Apparently he was to spend the next 2 months before bowing out talking about "life chances" and publishing a paper on it. Telegraph: "It meant more to him than Europe ever did."

    Why doesn't May make Dave Education Secretary?

    Or am I being silly?

    Chortle,

    Alternatively, I fear you may been misled by the Silly Party..

  • I don't find it particularly edifying to see someone who aspires to become a resident of Downing Street using such language at a public event. It is not plain-speaking, it just not what I expect of someone who wants to lead.
    There was a time, actually until relatively recently, when Mike Smithson wouldn't allow bad language on PB.com, but now the F word and other such terms are used as a matter of routine, without any regard and usually without any purpose. Shame really, for many it must have significantly reduced the enjoyment of visiting this site.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    I don't find it particularly edifying to see someone who aspires to become a resident of Downing Street using such language at a public event. It is not plain-speaking, it just not what I expect of someone who wants to lead.
    There was a time, actually until relatively recently, when Mike Smithson wouldn't allow bad language on PB.com, but now the F word and other such terms are used as a matter of routine, without any regard and usually without any purpose. Shame really, for many it must have significantly reduced the enjoyment of visiting this site.
    I don't have a problem with ripe language - but there is a time and a place for it. And the professional political arena isn't one of them.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,740

    Cameron's last full day as Pm included visiting one of the 300 free schools his government created. Apparently he was to spend the next 2 months before bowing out talking about "life chances" and publishing a paper on it. Telegraph: "It meant more to him than Europe ever did."

    Why doesn't May make Dave Education Secretary?

    Or am I being silly?

    It would be great if Dave remained in the Cabinet.

    But would it be seen as undermining Theresa - ie very hard for her to then sack him or tell him what to do.

    But let's face it - as was said when Maggie went - he can wipe the floor with everyone else so why not have the best player in the team?

    However if he were to stay surely it would have to be in a top job - almost certainly Foreign Sec.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited July 2016
    Danny565 said:

    With respect, it was you who just brought up a strawman argument of your own, by saying "it seems others for various political reasons don't want a functioning opposition".

    Most of us Labour posters have not said that we "don't want a functioning opposition", we just have a very different opinion to you on whether Corbyn or Eagle would be the best functioning opposition and which get a better General Election result (with the disaster of the Remain campaign in most Labour seats as supporting evidence).


    It's not a strawman argument - it is clear there are many here for political reasons (both left and right) who want there to be no functioning opposition. Nonetheless, I wasn't referring to you specifically in the first place. Although now you bring it up by supporting Corbyn you fundamentally are rejecting the idea of a functioning opposition. In a parliamentary democracy, a functioning opposition simply cannot be one which rejects the very concept of a parliamentary democracy. By refusing to resign Corbyn has put two fingers up at parliamentary democracy. He no longer believes that gaining the confidence of his MPs actually matters. You seem to sight the disastrous Remain campaign often. Do you know who was leader of the Labour party during this period? Do you know therefore who oversaw this disastrous Remain campaign and thus who must bear the greatest burden for its failure (in regard to Labour voters)? That person is Jeremy Corbyn, not Angela Eagle or any other 'moderate PLPer' (which to Corbynites seems to be everyone but Corbyn and McDonnell in the Labour party). The same person who you argue (or at least seem to imply) is the most electable figure Labour have to offer, and who you seem to think will do decent in a GE.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,251
    MikeL said:

    Cameron's last full day as Pm included visiting one of the 300 free schools his government created. Apparently he was to spend the next 2 months before bowing out talking about "life chances" and publishing a paper on it. Telegraph: "It meant more to him than Europe ever did."

    Why doesn't May make Dave Education Secretary?

    Or am I being silly?

    It would be great if Dave remained in the Cabinet.

    But would it be seen as undermining Theresa - ie very hard for her to then sack him or tell him what to do.

    But let's face it - as was said when Maggie went - he can wipe the floor with everyone else so why not have the best player in the team?

    However if he were to stay surely it would have to be in a top job - almost certainly Foreign Sec.
    Agree - but maybe back in at the first reshuffle to give him time to chillax on the back benches and her time to get her feet under the table.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,784
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    shiney2 said:

    Jobabob said:

    As far as I can see, Eagles is a genuinely repressive figure. She not merely voted for the War in Iraq (which is perhaps excusable on the grounds that she was lied to) but she voted against an Inquiry (which is unforgivable).

    Corbyn is preferable to Eagles.

    Owen Smith would have had a better chance of beating Corbyn.

    And the rules for who can vote for the leader are so arcane that if the result is close, this is just gonna end up in court.

    My feeling is if Corbyn retains the support of the Trade Union leaders, he will win this again.

    Corbyn will win. It's certain.
    Well, that's good news, surely?
    Well, some of us want a functioning opposition (it seems others for various political reasons don't). A one-party nation isn't really in anyone's interests (I'm intrigued to hear arguments as to how it even could be, tbqh).
    So then why do you want to replace Corbyn with an even less electable leader?
    Oh god, I have already had that debate with you and contested your argument in regard to 'less electable'. If don't agree with my points then fine, but I've already attempted to answer your question many times today.
    With respect, it was you who just brought up a strawman argument of your own, by saying "it seems others for various political reasons don't want a functioning opposition".

    Most of us Labour posters have not said that we "don't want a functioning opposition", we just have a very different opinion to you on whether Corbyn or Eagle would be the best functioning opposition and which get a better General Election result (with the disaster of the Remain campaign in most Labour seats as supporting evidence).

    A functioning opposition involves having a full shadow front bench. Corbyn demonstrably cannot deliver one of those. Eagle can. There's no getting round that, I'm afraid.

  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited July 2016
    OllyT said:

    Danny565 said:

    OllyT said:

    AndyJS said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:



    My seat in the North West has a Labour majority of 96 and I reckon the Tories will win it by well over 5000 in 2020 if Corbyn is still there.

    Chester?
    Well done, sir!

    Actually I reckon it will be nearer 10,000
    It was odd how Labour gained Chester while losing Vale of Clwyd just down the road.
    Neighbouring Wirral West was also one of the few Labour gains in 2015. We were one of the areas where Labour did OK last time. Doubt Labour has a prayer of holding either in 2020 with Corbyn
    Except in the May local elections, Corbyn's Labour made gains across the Wirral, and they also gained the Cheshire PCC (which I would assume meant a strong performance in Chester itself, since the deep shire Cheshire is a desert for Labour).
    Turnout in PPC elections are so small I doubt it indicates anything. I still voted Labour in the last local elections - it's a vote that runs no risk of seeing Corbyn as PM.

    I'll take any bet you care to offer that Labour will lose Chester at the next GE if Corbyn is leader. I think I personally know enough ex-Labour voters to see that 96 majority disappear!

    I wonder how many northern marginals Tories can gain in the north if Corbyn is still leader, I think Labour will do even better in London in 2020 building up big majorities in place like Enfield whilst tories winning mainly white seats across the north and midlands.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    I don't find it particularly edifying to see someone who aspires to become a resident of Downing Street using such language at a public event. It is not plain-speaking, it just not what I expect of someone who wants to lead.
    There was a time, actually until relatively recently, when Mike Smithson wouldn't allow bad language on PB.com, but now the F word and other such terms are used as a matter of routine, without any regard and usually without any purpose. Shame really, for many it must have significantly reduced the enjoyment of visiting this site.
    Shame it's our political leaders using it ,that shouldn't be shown ?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,740
    edited July 2016

    MikeL said:

    Cameron's last full day as Pm included visiting one of the 300 free schools his government created. Apparently he was to spend the next 2 months before bowing out talking about "life chances" and publishing a paper on it. Telegraph: "It meant more to him than Europe ever did."

    Why doesn't May make Dave Education Secretary?

    Or am I being silly?

    It would be great if Dave remained in the Cabinet.

    But would it be seen as undermining Theresa - ie very hard for her to then sack him or tell him what to do.

    But let's face it - as was said when Maggie went - he can wipe the floor with everyone else so why not have the best player in the team?

    However if he were to stay surely it would have to be in a top job - almost certainly Foreign Sec.
    Agree - but maybe back in at the first reshuffle to give him time to chillax on the back benches and her time to get her feet under the table.
    Yep - sounds sensible.

    And I don't think we should rule him out for next Con leader either - given his age he could easily come back if May wins in 2020 and then retires in 2023 or 2024 (as she surely would).

    If May went at the 2023 Party Conference she would be 67 - Cameron would then be 57.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    shiney2 said:

    Jobabob said:

    As far as I can see, Eagles is a genuinely repressive figure. She not merely voted for the War in Iraq (which is perhaps excusable on the grounds that she was lied to) but she voted against an Inquiry (which is unforgivable).

    Corbyn is preferable to Eagles.

    Owen Smith would have had a better chance of beating Corbyn.

    And the rules for who can vote for the leader are so arcane that if the result is close, this is just gonna end up in court.

    My feeling is if Corbyn retains the support of the Trade Union leaders, he will win this again.

    Corbyn will win. It's certain.
    Well, that's good news, surely?
    Well, some of us want a functioning opposition (it seems others for various political reasons don't). A one-party nation isn't really in anyone's interests (I'm intrigued to hear arguments as to how it even could be, tbqh).
    So then why do you want to replace Corbyn with an even less electable leader?
    Oh god, I have already had that debate with you and contested your argument in regard to 'less electable'. If don't agree with my points then fine, but I've already attempted to answer your question many times today.
    With respect, it was you who just brought up a strawman argument of your own, by saying "it seems others for various political reasons don't want a functioning opposition".

    Most of us Labour posters have not said that we "don't want a functioning opposition", we just have a very different opinion to you on whether Corbyn or Eagle would be the best functioning opposition and which get a better General Election result (with the disaster of the Remain campaign in most Labour seats as supporting evidence).

    A functioning opposition involves having a full shadow front bench. Corbyn demonstrably cannot deliver one of those. Eagle can. There's no getting round that, I'm afraid.

    This is certainly true. The problem is that Labour is really lacking in talent to fill all of those roles. There will be those willing to serve in a non-Corbyn Shadow Cabinet - but many of them would be unemployable in the real world.

    The quality of candidates has diminished (which is something that has affected all parties - but the decline on the Labour benches has been more marked)
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    I don't find it particularly edifying to see someone who aspires to become a resident of Downing Street using such language at a public event. It is not plain-speaking, it just not what I expect of someone who wants to lead.
    There was a time, actually until relatively recently, when Mike Smithson wouldn't allow bad language on PB.com, but now the F word and other such terms are used as a matter of routine, without any regard and usually without any purpose. Shame really, for many it must have significantly reduced the enjoyment of visiting this site.
    Shame it's our political leaders using it ,that shouldn't be shown ?
    It is right to expose McDonnell for what he is.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    I don't find it particularly edifying to see someone who aspires to become a resident of Downing Street using such language at a public event. It is not plain-speaking, it just not what I expect of someone who wants to lead.
    There was a time, actually until relatively recently, when Mike Smithson wouldn't allow bad language on PB.com, but now the F word and other such terms are used as a matter of routine, without any regard and usually without any purpose. Shame really, for many it must have significantly reduced the enjoyment of visiting this site.
    Shame it's our political leaders using it ,that shouldn't be shown ?
    It is right to expose McDonnell for what he is.
    Quite right.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Danny565 said:

    With respect, it was you who just brought up a strawman argument of your own, by saying "it seems others for various political reasons don't want a functioning opposition".

    Most of us Labour posters have not said that we "don't want a functioning opposition", we just have a very different opinion to you on whether Corbyn or Eagle would be the best functioning opposition and which get a better General Election result (with the disaster of the Remain campaign in most Labour seats as supporting evidence).


    It's not a strawman argument - it is clear there are many here for political reasons (both left and right) who want there to be no functioning opposition. Nonetheless, I wasn't referring to you specifically in the first place. Although now you bring it up by supporting Corbyn you fundamentally are rejecting the idea of a functioning opposition. In a parliamentary democracy, a functioning opposition simply cannot be one which rejects the very concept of a parliamentary democracy. By refusing to resign Corbyn has put two fingers up at parliamentary democracy. He no longer believes that gaining the confidence of his MPs actually matters. You seem to sight the disastrous Remain campaign often. Do you know who was leader of the Labour party during this period? Do you know therefore who oversaw this disastrous Remain campaign and thus who must bear the greatest burden for its failure (in regard to Labour voters)? That person is Jeremy Corbyn, not Angela Eagle or any other 'moderate PLPer' (which to Corbynites seems to be everyone but Corbyn and McDonnell in the Labour party). The same person who you argue (or at least seem to imply) is the most electable figure Labour have to offer, and who you seem to think will do decent in a GE.
    Why on earth are you blaming Corbyn for the “disastrous Remain” campaign?

    It looks to me as though Angela Eagle has far more responsibility for what happened with her wretched performance at the debates.

    Corbyn was elected with a massive mandate. He has the right to expect the PLP to support him for a reasonable period (I would say 2 or 3 years) while he develops policies.

    The PLP destabilised him.

    Rather than ask why did Corbyn not resign it is just as reasonable to ask why did members of the PLP not resign their seats and allow new MPs willing to serve under Corbyn to take their place.

    The ultimate problem is that the PLP does not look either like the membership of the labour Party or their typical voters. That is unsustainable. The problem won’t go away by ditching Corbyn.

  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    I didn't even notice this poll.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    shiney2 said:

    Jobabob said:

    As far as I can see, Eagles is a genuinely repressive figure. She not merely voted for the War in Iraq (which is perhaps excusable on the grounds that she was lied to) but she voted against an Inquiry (which is unforgivable).

    Corbyn is preferable to Eagles.

    Owen Smith would have had a better chance of beating Corbyn.

    And the rules for who can vote for the leader are so arcane that if the result is close, this is just gonna end up in court.

    My feeling is if Corbyn retains the support of the Trade Union leaders, he will win this again.

    Corbyn will win. It's certain.
    Well, that's good news, surely?
    Well, some of us want a functioning opposition (it seems others for various political reasons don't). A one-party nation isn't really in anyone's interests (I'm intrigued to hear arguments as to how it even could be, tbqh).
    So then why do you want to replace Corbyn with an even less electable leader?
    Oh god, I have already had that debate with you and contested your argument in regard to 'less electable'. If don't agree with my points then fine, but I've already attempted to answer your question many times today.
    With respect, it was you who just brought up a strawman argument of your own, by saying "it seems others for various political reasons don't want a functioning opposition".

    Most of us Labour posters have not said that we "don't want a functioning opposition", we just have a very different opinion to you on whether Corbyn or Eagle would be the best functioning opposition and which get a better General Election result (with the disaster of the Remain campaign in most Labour seats as supporting evidence).

    A functioning opposition involves having a full shadow front bench. Corbyn demonstrably cannot deliver one of those. Eagle can. There's no getting round that, I'm afraid.

    I'm not convinced you understand the power of a Different Kind of Politics and its friends in, for example, hatenothope. They will be a functioning Parliamentary Opposition after the next election due to the Labour brand - and they are The Opposition now.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,450
    edited July 2016

    Well he's right isn't he?

    In the time it's taken Labour to get absolutely nowhere in terms of removing Jezza, the Tories have seen Cameron, Boris, Gove and Leadsom all destroyed (just Osborne left tomorrow) and May elected leader by the MP's.

This discussion has been closed.