Dan Hodges has gone quiet. Hope hasn't reached for the pearl-handled revolver.
What a crap year for Dan. Leave wins the referendum, Cameron out as PM and Jeremy gets to fight another day.
No, there will be some Blairite ultras celebrating the death of the Labour Party, especially the likes of Hodges who left it a while back. They really will get to form their new party now.
A close result but Corbyn gets on the ballot. The best Eagle can hope for is to wound him, the latest members' poll had her getting 40% to his 50% and if Smith runs too he could take a few Corbyn first preferences as well. However Labour has again proved it lacks Tory ruthlessness, Tory rules ensured IDS never faced a second member's ballot in 2003 because he might well have won it. If Corbyn wins the membership ballot again he likely leads the party into the next election unless it is very close in which case UKIP will be breathing hard down Labour's neck and potentially wating into the white working class, the Tories will be the largest party in all likelihood, the question is if Corbyn Labour or UKIP takes second place, especially if the LDs eat onto social democratic Labour voters too
The hard left is very ruthless and relentless. It has achieved everything it ever wanted from the Labour party. It now has full control and a platform from which to spearhead the proletarian uprising :-D
Yes, it will be a Mediterranean party of protest, much as they wanted, however short of an economic apocalypse it will never get within a million miles of forming a government ever again!
@KatyScholesSKY: JC talks of "new politics" where "one person speaks and the other listens". 1st journo Q interrupted by nearby supporter shouting "wanker".
IMO Corbyn now has to stand on a ticket of mandatory reselection for all MPs.
Do you mean if he wins the contest Labour then should go into a full party reselection process? All MP's....?
Holy crap!
Yes. Corbyn has lost the support of MPs of all political views. Left, Right, Blairite, Brownite, soft left, Blue Labour etc. Obviously all of these people are just 'wrong'. Consequently, the Labour party will become uniformly Corbynite. Unlike any other political party, Labour will cease to be a board church of views. Only Corbynism will be tolerated. It was always going to be this way as many Corbynites I've spoken to cannot deal with disagreement on any subject whatsoever.
One of the UK's two great political parties has been taken over by the mad people who throw rocks through windows. Incroyable.
I cannot understand the perspectives of militant leftists at all. Don't they actually want to improve people's lives? Is being a protest movement and perpetual complainers really better than making sure that all kids have a chance in life etc? Margaret Beckett must hate herself right now.
I wonder how Lord Kinnock feels. He fought so hard to rid Labour of the hard left, succeeded, 'lost' his party to the Blairites, regained it in Mr Miliband, and has now lost again to the people he originally fought so hard to eradicate.
Oh, for goodness sake! All this wailing and gnashing of teeth, and from some who are old enough to know better is a bit pathetic. We had all the same predictions when Foot was leader and especially when he lost the 1983 election. We also heard much the same about the Conservatives after 2001.
Labour as a party is not going to die. I very much doubt it will split. It may well lose the 2020 general election but then the Conservatives lost three GEs in a row before they found their feet again and started to appeal to people outside their core vote.
Corbyn and co are in a different league to Foot. He was old left. These people are maoists, trots and thugs.
It is politically stupid but it's technically and morally right. The original stupidity was gifting Corbyn the 35 MPs last year to enter the leadership race.
His leadership campaign let the socialist cat out of the bag and the only way to now wring that cat's neck and stuff it back in the bag is to beat it in a one-on-one leadership contest.
I think Labour can do that if they have the right candidate and make a barnstorming argument.
And exactly who is that candidate and can make that argument. I look down my (very gren) betfair candidate list and there isn't a single name that is either the right candidate nor could do a barnstorming argument...
Dunno. Certainly not Eagle.
Jess Phillips? Dan Jarvis? Ed Miliband?
It's a tough one. But if they can beat him and then quickly change the rules and get their party back again.
If Corbyn is that useless he can't be that tough to beat. Surely?
As McDonnell's useful idiot he has resources to call on beyond his own sixth form capabilities
Polly was scathing in her Guardian column today that yesterday the Labour Party let a Government measure requiring a £1,200 fee to pursue employment tribunals go through with a majority of 135 (!) because the Shadow Lord Chancellor didn't notice the significance of the vote and failed to whip the MPs.
A close result but Corbyn gets on the ballot. The best Eagle can hope for is to wound him, the latest members' poll had her getting 40% to his 50% and if Smith runs too he could take a few Corbyn first preferences as well. However Labour has again proved it lacks Tory ruthlessness, Tory rules ensured IDS never faced a second member's ballot in 2003 because he might well have won it. If Corbyn wins the membership ballot again he likely leads the party into the next election unless it is very close in which case UKIP will be breathing hard down Labour's neck and potentially wating into the white working class, the Tories will be the largest party in all likelihood, the question is if Corbyn Labour or UKIP takes second place, especially if the LDs eat onto social democratic Labour voters too
The hard left is very ruthless and relentless. It has achieved everything it ever wanted from the Labour party. It now has full control and a platform from which to spearhead the proletarian uprising :-D
Will Corbyn win a GE? No. Will someone who thinks and looks like Corbyn win a GE? No. What will happen to a Labour party that looks and thinks like Corbyn? They ain't going to win in Nuneaton.
They will pile up votes in Islington and Lewisham and Manchester Central, the likes of Nuneaton will probably never vote Labour again but may become Tory-UKIP marginal seats
OK, now is the time for May to make a big, open offer to moderate, sensible Labour members to jump ship. Kendall, Chuka, Tristram... We'd even take Woodward back. Maybe.
Pre-empt the Lab split by getting some of their better people to join a decent, centrist Tory administration - it would be a stroke of genius.
May could do that but then IDS, Patterson, Leadsom, Rees-Mogg, Redwood, Tebbit, Cash etc would then swiftly move to UKIP in response
OK, now is the time for May to make a big, open offer to moderate, sensible Labour members to jump ship. Kendall, Chuka, Tristram... We'd even take Woodward back. Maybe.
Pre-empt the Lab split by getting some of their better people to join a decent, centrist Tory administration - it would be a stroke of genius.
May could do that but then IDS, Patterson, Leadsom, Rees-Mogg, Redwood, Tebbit, Cash etc would then swiftly move to UKIP in response
No they wouldn't. There will be very few moves to UKIP now from the right.
Good. Now we can actually have a fair election and find out whether Eagle, Smith or anyone else has a genuine alternative to offer. It's embarrassing that they were pinning their hopes to keeping their opponent off the ballot.
With 200k Trots as members, no-one else has a chance. I can hope for a miracle. It's quite likely I will tear up my membership once the old fool wins again.
A bleak day for progressive politics. The Tories on here must be cock-a-hoop.
Find it hilarious yes, cock-a-hoop no. We don't have an effective opposition, which unless you are totally tribal, cannot be seen as a good thing.
IMO Corbyn now has to stand on a ticket of mandatory reselection for all MPs.
Do you mean if he wins the contest Labour then should go into a full party reselection process? All MP's....?
Holy crap!
Yes. Corbyn has lost the support of MPs of all political views. Left, Right, Blairite, Brownite, soft left, Blue Labour etc. Obviously all of these people are just 'wrong'. Consequently, the Labour party will become uniformly Corbynite. Unlike any other political party, Labour will cease to be a board church of views. Only Corbynism will be tolerated. It was always going to be this way as many Corbynites I've spoken to cannot deal with disagreement on any subject whatsoever.
Then they surely must leave then and reform as another party? If deselection beckons that probably is going to be sooner rather than later to be in position to fight GE2020
PM May must be looking at this and thinking dare I call a GE in September / October and finish off CorbyLabour and New Improved whiter than white Labour at the same time.
Exactly. At high level I can only see three scenarios now:
1. Brexit goes reasonably well. Whatever the opposition parties do, the Tories are in power until most of us are posting on PB with a blanket over us from a nice comfy chair in a home.
2. Brexit goes badly. Labour is left to the Left and the centre and centre-left parties get themselves together to present some sort of combined front against the Tories, ride the crest of the anti-Brexit backlash and finally deliver meaningful political reform to the UK
3. Brexit goes badly (or some middle path) but the sensible people within Labour spend the next ten years in an ultimately futile battle to recover the Labour Party from the Left. Whether they win or lose, outcome is the same as in 1.
Oh, for goodness sake! All this wailing and gnashing of teeth, and from some who are old enough to know better is a bit pathetic. We had all the same predictions when Foot was leader and especially when he lost the 1983 election. We also heard much the same about the Conservatives after 2001.
Labour as a party is not going to die. I very much doubt it will split. It may well lose the 2020 general election but then the Conservatives lost three GEs in a row before they found their feet again and started to appeal to people outside their core vote.
Corbyn and co are in a different league to Foot. He was old left. These people are maoists, trots and thugs.
@DavidRoe92: In fairness, 150 or so Labour MPs can create a big party quickly from a standing start and take Opposition slots right away. Not a gang of 6
He's right, but do they have the gumption?
Compouter says no...
And where do their VOTERS come from???
There are plenty of centre left votes out there. Not all working class Labour voters yearn for unrestricted immigration, solidarity with Hamas and the IRA, unilateral nuclear disarmament and the abolition of the monarchy.
Says it all really. Twitter Rachel Reeves@RachelReevesMP Follow @saving_labour tonight to join the campaign and get the strong leadership we so urgently need
No point, as new members have just been ruled out for six months. Still there's always next year.
@Independent: Exclusive: Theresa May’s husband is senior executive at a $1.4tn hedge fund that profits from tax avoiding companies https://t.co/6A4XGC3QUQ
Labour will be all over this.
oh, wait...
Wonder how long they have been sitting on that? Imagine if that had come out let's say last Saturday...
A close result but Corbyn gets on the ballot. The best Eagle can hope for is to wound him, the latest members' poll had her getting 40% to his 50% and if Smith runs too he could take a few Corbyn first preferences as well. However Labour has again proved it lacks Tory ruthlessness, Tory rules ensured IDS never faced a second member's ballot in 2003 because he might well have won it. If Corbyn wins the membership ballot again he likely leads the party into the next election unless it is very close in which case UKIP will be breathing hard down Labour's neck and potentially wating into the white working class, the Tories will be the largest party in all likelihood, the question is if Corbyn Labour or UKIP takes second place, especially if the LDs eat onto social democratic Labour voters too
The hard left is very ruthless and relentless. It has achieved everything it ever wanted from the Labour party. It now has full control and a platform from which to spearhead the proletarian uprising :-D
Yes, it will be a Mediterranean party of protest, much as they wanted, however short of an economic apocalypse it will never get within a million miles of forming a government ever again!
For the True Believer, purity of thought counts more than any real world irrelevance.
IMO Corbyn now has to stand on a ticket of mandatory reselection for all MPs.
Do you mean if he wins the contest Labour then should go into a full party reselection process? All MP's....?
Holy crap!
Yes. Corbyn has lost the support of MPs of all political views. Left, Right, Blairite, Brownite, soft left, Blue Labour etc. Obviously all of these people are just 'wrong'. Consequently, the Labour party will become uniformly Corbynite. Unlike any other political party, Labour will cease to be a board church of views. Only Corbynism will be tolerated. It was always going to be this way as many Corbynites I've spoken to cannot deal with disagreement on any subject whatsoever.
Then they surely must leave then and reform as another party? If deselection beckons that probably is going to be sooner rather than later to be in position to fight GE2020
PM May must be looking at this and thinking dare I call a GE in September / October and finish off CorbyLabour and New Improved whiter than white Labour at the same time.
May won't call a GE. She wants stability. We all do. This is all very exciting but.... enough votes and politics now. She will rely on the spectre of Corbyn and Sturgeon to whip her MPs into line.
Besides, she can do what she likes at Westminster as Labour goes into prolonged psychosis, and possibly dies. There is no more opposition. The enemy has fled the field.
Imagine that we lurch into decline post Brexit. That's the one scenario where, in despair, the British might elect Corbyn's Labour.
Within five years we'd be a European Venezuela. Food shortages. Riots. Civil strife.
Great.
Did some sums. Imagine a 25% drop in GDP (i.e more than three times 2008 crash, five times 1930s crash). Puts the UK back to 1996.
Imagine it halved. That takes us to 1984. We're a long, long way from Venezuela.
Do it per capita. 25% decline turns us into Japan. 50% decline turns us into Spain. We're a long way from Venezuela.
We're a long, long way from Venezuela.
But how far are we from Tipperary?
309.1 miles according to Google .
Nevertheless there are places in the UK from where you can set sail in a straight line and not hit land until you reach Venezuela. Not so Tipperary. Quite what point I am making here, I have no idea.
What's the point in challenging the decision in the courts? They may as well spend that time organising a breakaway party, which is how this will end.
The old Labour model is dead. The party belongs to the left, now, and it is entirely reasonable for the UK to have a socialist party, fighting its corner within a pluralist PR system.
Those within Labour who cannot accept its new role need to decide whether they to join the LibDems, Greens, or nationalist parties, or whether to form an SDP2.
All of the non-Conservative parties (possibly ex UKIP) need to think through the best way to co-operate with the shared objective of meaningful electoral and constitutional reform.
LOL if only this was about Labour being a socialist party. It's about Labour believing in parliamentary democracy. You can be a socialist and believe in parliamentary democracy. Even Keir Hardie believed that.
A close result but Corbyn gets on the ballot. The best Eagle can hope for is to wound him, the latest members' poll had her getting 40% to his 50% and if Smith runs too he could take a few Corbyn first preferences as well. However Labour has again proved it lacks Tory ruthlessness, Tory rules ensured IDS never faced a second member's ballot in 2003 because he might well have won it. If Corbyn wins the membership ballot again he likely leads the party into the next election unless it is very close in which case UKIP will be breathing hard down Labour's neck and potentially wating into the white working class, the Tories will be the largest party in all likelihood, the question is if Corbyn Labour or UKIP takes second place, especially if the LDs eat onto social democratic Labour voters too
The hard left is very ruthless and relentless. It has achieved everything it ever wanted from the Labour party. It now has full control and a platform from which to spearhead the proletarian uprising :-D
Will Corbyn win a GE? No. Will someone who thinks and looks like Corbyn win a GE? No. What will happen to a Labour party that looks and thinks like Corbyn? They ain't going to win in Nuneaton.
And Corbyn Labour will not give a monkeys. The path to socialism lies via a mass rising of the proletariat. It's Labour's job to facilitate that. And that will happen from the street. It's basic 1970s revolutionary Marxism.
You recently re-joined this party that you say is aimed at a mass rising of the proletariat and "seizing the means of production" (your words from earlier today). Buyers remorse? Will you once again be resigning your membership?
I want to vote against Corbyn and find out more about my fellow CLP members and their thoughts.
You dont get a vote though unless i have misread what Labour NEC votes for six month membership freeze date means?
Imagine that we lurch into decline post Brexit. That's the one scenario where, in despair, the British might elect Corbyn's Labour.
Within five years we'd be a European Venezuela. Food shortages. Riots. Civil strife.
Great.
Did some sums. Imagine a 25% drop in GDP (i.e more than three times 2008 crash, five times 1930s crash). Puts the UK back to 1996.
Imagine it halved. That takes us to 1984. We're a long, long way from Venezuela.
Do it per capita. 25% decline turns us into Japan. 50% decline turns us into Spain. We're a long way from Venezuela.
We're a long, long way from Venezuela.
But how far are we from Tipperary?
309.1 miles according to Google .
Nevertheless there are places in the UK from where you can set sail in a straight line and not hit land until you reach Venezuela. Not so Tipperary. Quite what point I am making here, I have no idea.
I slaved over those economy figures for you wretches, and this is the way you repay me lol.
Good. Now we can actually have a fair election and find out whether Eagle, Smith or anyone else has a genuine alternative to offer. It's embarrassing that they were pinning their hopes to keeping their opponent off the ballot.
With 200k Trots as members, no-one else has a chance. I can hope for a miracle. It's quite likely I will tear up my membership once the old fool wins again.
A bleak day for progressive politics. The Tories on here must be cock-a-hoop.
No sensible person can be cock-a-hoop and the Tories have been infinitely more sensible than Labour in how they have dealt with leadership issue.
@DavidRoe92: In fairness, 150 or so Labour MPs can create a big party quickly from a standing start and take Opposition slots right away. Not a gang of 6
He's right, but do they have the gumption?
Compouter says no...
And where do their VOTERS come from???
There are plenty of centre left votes out there. Not all working class Labour voters yearn for unrestricted immigration, solidarity with Hamas and the IRA, unilateral nuclear disarmament and the abolition of the monarchy.
But which constituencies do you think would have an appetite for a party which was in favour of the rich and big businesses, while also being in favour of high levels of immigration and putting a huge emphasis on feminism and the like?
Such a party would have no chance in the northern Labour heartlands who are too poor to be wooed by the pro-rich economic stance, while also being socially conservative as shown by the Brexit vote. Similarly, the ultra-rich Tory shires would disagree with this "SDP v2" on immigration and other socially liberal issues, and would always have the Tories to go to if they wanted the economically conservative policies. Meanwhile, the SDP v2 would be led by a bunch of career politicians, who people right across the board have total contempt for.
Apart from a few rich but socially liberal parts of London (maybe Kensington and the like), I genuinely can't see where it gets its votes from.
A close result but Corbyn gets on the ballot. The best Eagle can hope for is to wound him, the latest members' poll had her getting 40% to his 50% and if Smith runs too he could take a few Corbyn first preferences as well. However Labour has again proved it lacks Tory ruthlessness, Tory rules ensured IDS never faced a second member's ballot in 2003 because he might well have won it. If Corbyn wins the membership ballot again he likely leads the party into the next election unless it is very close in which case UKIP will be breathing hard down Labour's neck and potentially wating into the white working class, the Tories will be the largest party in all likelihood, the question is if Corbyn Labour or UKIP takes second place, especially if the LDs eat onto social democratic Labour voters too
The hard left is very ruthless and relentless. It has achieved everything it ever wanted from the Labour party. It now has full control and a platform from which to spearhead the proletarian uprising :-D
Will Corbyn win a GE? No. Will someone who thinks and looks like Corbyn win a GE? No. What will happen to a Labour party that looks and thinks like Corbyn? They ain't going to win in Nuneaton.
And Corbyn Labour will not give a monkeys. The path to socialism lies via a mass rising of the proletariat. It's Labour's job to facilitate that. And that will happen from the street. It's basic 1970s revolutionary Marxism.
You recently re-joined this party that you say is aimed at a mass rising of the proletariat and "seizing the means of production" (your words from earlier today). Buyers remorse? Will you once again be resigning your membership?
I want to vote against Corbyn and find out more about my fellow CLP members and their thoughts.
You dont get a vote though unless i have misread what Labour NEC votes for six month membership freeze date means?
What do you think?
Not sure. I took it to mean from now and the £3 fee rising to £25. Whatever it is it will be ridiculous :-)
May could do that but then IDS, Patterson, Leadsom, Rees-Mogg, Redwood, Tebbit, Cash etc would then swiftly move to UKIP in response
Win, win, win, win, win !!!
Yes this could be the trigger for a realignment, centrist Labour MPs moving to the LDs to form an SDP2, a handful of Blairites defecting to May's Tories, some MPs on the Tory right moving to UKIP, certainly the potential is there now
@DavidRoe92: In fairness, 150 or so Labour MPs can create a big party quickly from a standing start and take Opposition slots right away. Not a gang of 6
He's right, but do they have the gumption?
Compouter says no...
And where do their VOTERS come from???
There are plenty of centre left votes out there. Not all working class Labour voters yearn for unrestricted immigration, solidarity with Hamas and the IRA, unilateral nuclear disarmament and the abolition of the monarchy.
Many of them already vote elsewhere. UKIP, I think the party's called.
IMO Corbyn now has to stand on a ticket of mandatory reselection for all MPs.
Do you mean if he wins the contest Labour then should go into a full party reselection process? All MP's....?
Holy crap!
Yes. Corbyn has lost the support of MPs of all political views. Left, Right, Blairite, Brownite, soft left, Blue Labour etc. Obviously all of these people are just 'wrong'. Consequently, the Labour party will become uniformly Corbynite. Unlike any other political party, Labour will cease to be a board church of views. Only Corbynism will be tolerated. It was always going to be this way as many Corbynites I've spoken to cannot deal with disagreement on any subject whatsoever.
Then they surely must leave then and reform as another party? If deselection beckons that probably is going to be sooner rather than later to be in position to fight GE2020
PM May must be looking at this and thinking dare I call a GE in September / October and finish off CorbyLabour and New Improved whiter than white Labour at the same time.
May won't call a GE. She wants stability. We all do. This is all very exciting but.... enough votes and politics now. She will rely on the spectre of Corbyn and Sturgeon to whip her MPs into line.
Besides, she can do what she likes at Westminster as Labour goes into prolonged psychosis, and possibly dies. There is no more opposition. The enemy has fled the field.
Tick
The measures May could push through now are quite exciting, given that Labour are incapable of opposing. Why not make that move to contributory benefits? Do it. Do all the stuff. Cut corporation tax to 10%. Retool the economy so it can survive and thrive outside the EU. Do it.
Yes, yes. Do all the things. If we can't do it now, we'll never, ever do it. This is the UK's chance at a proper mid-life crisis. Wear the toupee, buy the sports car, get the blonde 20 year old girlfriend. Don't start tinkering with marginal rates of taxation, or regulating inland waterways. Blow the bloody doors off.
What's the point in challenging the decision in the courts? They may as well spend that time organising a breakaway party, which is how this will end.
The old Labour model is dead. The party belongs to the left, now, and it is entirely reasonable for the UK to have a socialist party, fighting its corner within a pluralist PR system.
Those within Labour who cannot accept its new role need to decide whether they to join the LibDems, Greens, or nationalist parties, or whether to form an SDP2.
All of the non-Conservative parties (possibly ex UKIP) need to think through the best way to co-operate with the shared objective of meaningful electoral and constitutional reform.
LOL if only this was about Labour being a socialist party. It's about Labour believing in parliamentary democracy. You can be a socialist and believe in parliamentary democracy. Even Keir Hardie believed that.
True, but I am assuming one thing leads to another. As tends to be the case.
OK, now is the time for May to make a big, open offer to moderate, sensible Labour members to jump ship. Kendall, Chuka, Tristram... We'd even take Woodward back. Maybe.
Pre-empt the Lab split by getting some of their better people to join a decent, centrist Tory administration - it would be a stroke of genius.
May could do that but then IDS, Patterson, Leadsom, Rees-Mogg, Redwood, Tebbit, Cash etc would then swiftly move to UKIP in response
OK, now is the time for May to make a big, open offer to moderate, sensible Labour members to jump ship. Kendall, Chuka, Tristram... We'd even take Woodward back. Maybe.
Pre-empt the Lab split by getting some of their better people to join a decent, centrist Tory administration - it would be a stroke of genius.
May could do that but then IDS, Patterson, Leadsom, Rees-Mogg, Redwood, Tebbit, Cash etc would then swiftly move to UKIP in response
No they wouldn't. There will be very few moves to UKIP now from the right.
Disagree, if May agrees EEA/EFTA the likes of Cash and Patterson and IDS could be off to UKIP like a rocket, certainly with Labour now effectively redundant as a real opposition to the May government
Craig Woodhouse Corbyn's army of £3 supporters will need to re-register and pay £25 fee. And huge number of new arrivals can't vote.
Putting the £3 up to £25 is sensible. I'm not convinced by the freeze date, though - my understanding is that the Tory equivalent is a permanent rule whilst this looks like moving the goalposts.
Does the six month membership "freeze" cover the "temporary" supporters (3 quidders) who voted last time"? Might JC have just lost a huge chunk of his electorate from last time?
A close result but Corbyn gets on the ballot. The best Eagle can hope for is to wound him, the latest members' poll had her getting 40% to his 50% and if Smith runs too he could take a few Corbyn first preferences as well. However Labour has again proved it lacks Tory ruthlessness, Tory rules ensured IDS never faced a second member's ballot in 2003 because he might well have won it. If Corbyn wins the membership ballot again he likely leads the party into the next election unless it is very close in which case UKIP will be breathing hard down Labour's neck and potentially wating into the white working class, the Tories will be the largest party in all likelihood, the question is if Corbyn Labour or UKIP takes second place, especially if the LDs eat onto social democratic Labour voters too
The hard left is very ruthless and relentless. It has achieved everything it ever wanted from the Labour party. It now has full control and a platform from which to spearhead the proletarian uprising :-D
Yes, it will be a Mediterranean party of protest, much as they wanted, however short of an economic apocalypse it will never get within a million miles of forming a government ever again!
For the True Believer, purity of thought counts more than any real world irrelevance.
They just need to pray for 28% unemployment like Greece and they could become the UK's Syriza!
Does the six month membership "freeze" cover the "temporary" supporters (3 quidders) who voted last time"? Might JC have just lost a huge chunk of his electorate from last time?
I think they now have to stump up £25 to vote. Its a bit confusing though.
IMO Corbyn now has to stand on a ticket of mandatory reselection for all MPs.
Do you mean if he wins the contest Labour then should go into a full party reselection process? All MP's....?
Holy crap!
Yes. Corbyn has lost the support of MPs of all political views. Left, Right, Blairite, Brownite, soft left, Blue Labour etc. Obviously all of these people are just 'wrong'. Consequently, the Labour party will become uniformly Corbynite. Unlike any other political party, Labour will cease to be a board church of views. Only Corbynism will be tolerated. It was always going to be this way as many Corbynites I've spoken to cannot deal with disagreement on any subject whatsoever.
One of the UK's two great political parties has been taken over by the mad people who throw rocks through windows. Incroyable.
I cannot understand the perspectives of militant leftists at all. Don't they actually want to improve people's lives? Is being a protest movement and perpetual complainers really better than making sure that all kids have a chance in life etc? Margaret Beckett must hate herself right now.
I wonder how Lord Kinnock feels. He fought so hard to rid Labour of the hard left, succeeded, 'lost' his party to the Blairites, regained it in Mr Miliband, and has now lost again to the people he originally fought so hard to eradicate.
Quite a tragedy.
(Good evening, everyone)
Yes he must be very sad as he and his family wistfully considers unemployment and where the nearest food bank is as a result of the U.K. leaving the EU
Oh, for goodness sake! All this wailing and gnashing of teeth, and from some who are old enough to know better is a bit pathetic. We had all the same predictions when Foot was leader and especially when he lost the 1983 election. We also heard much the same about the Conservatives after 2001.
Labour as a party is not going to die. I very much doubt it will split. It may well lose the 2020 general election but then the Conservatives lost three GEs in a row before they found their feet again and started to appeal to people outside their core vote.
Foot kept Labour ahead of the SDP in second place, I would not be so certain Corbyn can hold off UKIP. The Tories got rid of IDS in 2003 before the LDs became a real threat, Labour are about to re-elect Corbyn
IMO Corbyn now has to stand on a ticket of mandatory reselection for all MPs.
Do you mean if he wins the contest Labour then should go into a full party reselection process? All MP's....?
Holy crap!
Yes. Corbyn has lost the support of MPs of all political views. Left, Right, Blairite, Brownite, soft left, Blue Labour etc. Obviously all of these people are just 'wrong'. Consequently, the Labour party will become uniformly Corbynite. Unlike any other political party, Labour will cease to be a board church of views. Only Corbynism will be tolerated. It was always going to be this way as many Corbynites I've spoken to cannot deal with disagreement on any subject whatsoever.
Then they surely must leave then and reform as another party? If deselection beckons that probably is going to be sooner rather than later to be in position to fight GE2020
PM May must be looking at this and thinking dare I call a GE in September / October and finish off CorbyLabour and New Improved whiter than white Labour at the same time.
May won't call a GE. She wants stability. We all do. This is all very exciting but.... enough votes and politics now. She will rely on the spectre of Corbyn and Sturgeon to whip her MPs into line.
Besides, she can do what she likes at Westminster as Labour goes into prolonged psychosis, and possibly dies. There is no more opposition. The enemy has fled the field.
Tick
The measures May could push through now are quite exciting, given that Labour are incapable of opposing. Why not make that move to contributory benefits? Do it. Do all the stuff. Cut corporation tax to 10%. Retool the economy so it can survive and thrive outside the EU. Do it.
It's her call.
Whatever she says we should listen, and we should certainly set aside mild prejudice to support her. These are tough times and we're certainly all in these tough times together, as Cameron would have said. This is different though in that its just us.
£25 is a much bigger investment than £3. Will Momentum win because it's well organised and highly motivated? Or will non-Momentum win because it's rich Blairites like Polly Toynbee who are now pumped up to save Labour from the hard left?
I suspect that £25 will put a lot of people off. The old 3 quidders fall away. The membership as at 6 months ago is hard to call: many long standing members left in despair and cannot now rejoin (but they could pay £25). Many Corbynites did join more than 6 months ago and are still there in force. Some soft Corbynites are disillusioned and could abandon Corbyn for a soft left alternative. But I still think the odds favour Corbyn.
Gwyneth Paltrow on BBC World News talking about selling a $15,000 gold dildo. Hard Talk
- honest!
I know Gwyneth a little, and the idea that she can be anything other than mind-numbingly boringly serious beggars belief. Maybe her PR person gave her a script to read.
IMO Corbyn now has to stand on a ticket of mandatory reselection for all MPs.
Do you mean if he wins the contest Labour then should go into a full party reselection process? All MP's....?
Holy crap!
Yes. Corbyn has lost the support of MPs of all political views. Left, Right, Blairite, Brownite, soft left, Blue Labour etc. Obviously all of these people are just 'wrong'. Consequently, the Labour party will become uniformly Corbynite. Unlike any other political party, Labour will cease to be a board church of views. Only Corbynism will be tolerated. It was always going to be this way as many Corbynites I've spoken to cannot deal with disagreement on any subject whatsoever.
One of the UK's two great political parties has been taken over by the mad people who throw rocks through windows. Incroyable.
I cannot understand the perspectives of militant leftists at all. Don't they actually want to improve people's lives? Is being a protest movement and perpetual complainers really better than making sure that all kids have a chance in life etc? Margaret Beckett must hate herself right now.
I wonder how Lord Kinnock feels. He fought so hard to rid Labour of the hard left, succeeded, 'lost' his party to the Blairites, regained it in Mr Miliband, and has now lost again to the people he originally fought so hard to eradicate.
Quite a tragedy.
(Good evening, everyone)
Yes he must be very sad as he and his family wistfully considers unemployment and where the nearest food bank is as a result of the U.K. leaving the EU
One for you. Just wandering through the amazon Prime Day deals, and found that the #1 best seller in toys and games is Exploding Kittens - a card game for people who are into kittens and explosions and laser beams and sometimes goats. It's a deal at $15, 20% off
Does the six month membership "freeze" cover the "temporary" supporters (3 quidders) who voted last time"? Might JC have just lost a huge chunk of his electorate from last time?
I think they now have to stump up £25 to vote. Its a bit confusing though.
They have to re-register but unclear from my sources* if they are excluded.
@DavidRoe92: In fairness, 150 or so Labour MPs can create a big party quickly from a standing start and take Opposition slots right away. Not a gang of 6
He's right, but do they have the gumption?
Compouter says no...
And where do their VOTERS come from???
There are plenty of centre left votes out there. Not all working class Labour voters yearn for unrestricted immigration, solidarity with Hamas and the IRA, unilateral nuclear disarmament and the abolition of the monarchy.
But which constituencies do you think would have an appetite for a party which was in favour of the rich and big businesses, while also being in favour of high levels of immigration and putting a huge emphasis on feminism and the like?
Such a party would have no chance in the northern Labour heartlands who are too poor to be wooed by the pro-rich economic stance, while also being socially conservative as shown by the Brexit vote. Similarly, the ultra-rich Tory shires would disagree with this "SDP v2" on immigration and other socially liberal issues, and would always have the Tories to go to if they wanted the economically conservative policies. Meanwhile, the SDP v2 would be led by a bunch of career politicians, who people right across the board have total contempt for.
Apart from a few rich but socially liberal parts of London (maybe Kensington and the like), I genuinely can't see where it gets its votes from.
I doubt that party would get many votes. You don't get to London very much, do you? :-D
Gwyneth Paltrow on BBC World News talking about selling a $15,000 gold dildo. Hard Talk
- honest!
I know Gwyneth a little, and the idea that she can be anything other than mind-numbingly boringly serious beggars belief. Maybe her PR person gave her a script to read.
'£25 is a much bigger investment than £3. Will Momentum win because it's well organised and highly motivated? Or will non-Momentum win because it's rich Blairites like Polly Toynbee who are now pumped up to save Labour from the hard left?
I suspect that £25 will put a lot of people off. The old 3 quidders fall away. The membership as at 6 months ago is hard to call: many long standing members left in despair and cannot now rejoin (but they could pay £25). Many Corbynites did join more than 6 months ago and are still there in force. Some soft Corbynites are disillusioned and could abandon Corbyn for a soft left alternative. But I still think the odds favour Corbyn.'
May hit Corbyn a little but the motivated hard left will not let £25 put them off the chance of gaining a stranglehold over Labour, potentially for ever. The 6 month freeze could be more significant though and at least gives non-Corbynites a chance
IMO Corbyn now has to stand on a ticket of mandatory reselection for all MPs.
Do you mean if he wins the contest Labour then should go into a full party reselection process? All MP's....?
Holy crap!
Yes. Corbyn has lost the support of MPs of all political views. Left, Right, Blairite, Brownite, soft left, Blue Labour etc. Obviously all of these people are just 'wrong'. Consequently, the Labour party will become uniformly Corbynite. Unlike any other political party, Labour will cease to be a board church of views. Only Corbynism will be tolerated. It was always going to be this way as many Corbynites I've spoken to cannot deal with disagreement on any subject whatsoever.
Then they surely must leave then and reform as another party? If deselection beckons that probably is going to be sooner rather than later to be in position to fight GE2020
PM May must be looking at this and thinking dare I call a GE in September / October and finish off CorbyLabour and New Improved whiter than white Labour at the same time.
May won't call a GE. She wants stability. We all do. This is all very exciting but.... enough votes and politics now. She will rely on the spectre of Corbyn and Sturgeon to whip her MPs into line.
Besides, she can do what she likes at Westminster as Labour goes into prolonged psychosis, and possibly dies. There is no more opposition. The enemy has fled the field.
Tick
The measures May could push through now are quite exciting, given that Labour are incapable of opposing. Why not make that move to contributory benefits? Do it. Do all the stuff. Cut corporation tax to 10%. Retool the economy so it can survive and thrive outside the EU. Do it.
Oh, for goodness sake! All this wailing and gnashing of teeth, and from some who are old enough to know better is a bit pathetic. We had all the same predictions when Foot was leader and especially when he lost the 1983 election. We also heard much the same about the Conservatives after 2001.
Labour as a party is not going to die. I very much doubt it will split. It may well lose the 2020 general election but then the Conservatives lost three GEs in a row before they found their feet again and started to appeal to people outside their core vote.
Foot kept Labour ahead of the SDP in second place, I would not be so certain Corbyn can hold off UKIP. The Tories got rid of IDS in 2003 before the LDs became a real threat, Labour are about to re-elect Corbyn
Mr. HYFUD, if UKIP is to survive, let alone become a real threat to Labour it has going to have to change and change quite quickly. Farage has done it a huge favour now that his task is complete but I think there will be a battle for what sort of Party it should become.
I think the chances of it morphing into a party that will appeal to the Northern Cities are rather lower than it fading away. After all the Party was set up with one goal in mind that has been achieved, why should it continue and who is going to pay for it?
Polly was scathing in her Guardian column today that yesterday the Labour Party let a Government measure requiring a £1,200 fee to pursue employment tribunals go through with a majority of 135 (!) because the Shadow Lord Chancellor didn't notice the significance of the vote and failed to whip the MPs.
Polly was scathing in her Guardian column today that yesterday the Labour Party let a Government measure requiring a £1,200 fee to pursue employment tribunals go through with a majority of 135 (!) because the Shadow Lord Chancellor didn't notice the significance of the vote and failed to whip the MPs.
OK, now is the time for May to make a big, open offer to moderate, sensible Labour members to jump ship. Kendall, Chuka, Tristram... We'd even take Woodward back. Maybe.
Pre-empt the Lab split by getting some of their better people to join a decent, centrist Tory administration - it would be a stroke of genius.
May could do that but then IDS, Patterson, Leadsom, Rees-Mogg, Redwood, Tebbit, Cash etc would then swiftly move to UKIP in response
OK, now is the time for May to make a big, open offer to moderate, sensible Labour members to jump ship. Kendall, Chuka, Tristram... We'd even take Woodward back. Maybe.
Pre-empt the Lab split by getting some of their better people to join a decent, centrist Tory administration - it would be a stroke of genius.
May could do that but then IDS, Patterson, Leadsom, Rees-Mogg, Redwood, Tebbit, Cash etc would then swiftly move to UKIP in response
No they wouldn't. There will be very few moves to UKIP now from the right.
Disagree, if May agrees EEA/EFTA the likes of Cash and Patterson and IDS could be off to UKIP like a rocket, certainly with Labour now effectively redundant as a real opposition to the May government
Nah, the Tory eurosceptic right will now be pretty content - the sovereignty issue is settled as far as they're concerned. I doubt they regard the whole EEFTA/FoM thing as anything other than an esoteric quibble. They certainly won't be losing their safe Tory seats over it.
Do I have this right? I have paid £60 to be a full Labour party member, but don't get a vote in the leadership election; however, if I pay another £25 I can? Doesn't make much sense, but if those are the rules I'll abide.
Gwyneth Paltrow on BBC World News talking about selling a $15,000 gold dildo. Hard Talk
- honest!
I know Gwyneth a little, and the idea that she can be anything other than mind-numbingly boringly serious beggars belief. Maybe her PR person gave her a script to read.
Comments
Quite a tragedy.
(Good evening, everyone)
Why is the trainspotting programme on BBC4 using Depeche Mode and Eurythmics as the soundtrack?
1. Brexit goes reasonably well. Whatever the opposition parties do, the Tories are in power until most of us are posting on PB with a blanket over us from a nice comfy chair in a home.
2. Brexit goes badly. Labour is left to the Left and the centre and centre-left parties get themselves together to present some sort of combined front against the Tories, ride the crest of the anti-Brexit backlash and finally deliver meaningful political reform to the UK
3. Brexit goes badly (or some middle path) but the sensible people within Labour spend the next ten years in an ultimately futile battle to recover the Labour Party from the Left. Whether they win or lose, outcome is the same as in 1.
Calm down dear
It's hard to see how the standard of the Gibraltar league can be much higher than the top Pub League division in a major British city.
What do you think?
- honest!
Labour MPs who were down at initial result euphoric over freeze date decision. "Game on!" says one.
Such a party would have no chance in the northern Labour heartlands who are too poor to be wooed by the pro-rich economic stance, while also being socially conservative as shown by the Brexit vote. Similarly, the ultra-rich Tory shires would disagree with this "SDP v2" on immigration and other socially liberal issues, and would always have the Tories to go to if they wanted the economically conservative policies. Meanwhile, the SDP v2 would be led by a bunch of career politicians, who people right across the board have total contempt for.
Apart from a few rich but socially liberal parts of London (maybe Kensington and the like), I genuinely can't see where it gets its votes from.
https://twitter.com/MightyMeadow/status/752951745077186561
Corbyn's army of £3 supporters will need to re-register and pay £25 fee. And huge number of new arrivals can't vote.
http://labourlist.org/2016/01/more-than-half-of-labours-members-have-joined-since-the-election/
Membership-388k
But half are new members since Corbyn became leader. Still seems very difficult.
Or was it a quid-pro-quo stitch-up from Watson?
"OK, Jezza, you get one more go, but don't think we're going to stand for an avalanche of three-quidders too!"
(For the record, any PBer caught using another scores app will be summarily banned.)
Lincoln Red Imps 1 - 0 Celtic
https://twitter.com/GBCNewsroom/status/752950326420967424
Whatever she says we should listen, and we should certainly set aside mild prejudice to support her. These are tough times and we're certainly all in these tough times together, as Cameron would have said. This is different though in that its just us.
I suspect that £25 will put a lot of people off. The old 3 quidders fall away. The membership as at 6 months ago is hard to call: many long standing members left in despair and cannot now rejoin (but they could pay £25). Many Corbynites did join more than 6 months ago and are still there in force. Some soft Corbynites are disillusioned and could abandon Corbyn for a soft left alternative. But I still think the odds favour Corbyn.
The incompetence is staggering. Breathtaking.
*Twitter
Granted they've reduced the £3 voter numbers but given those numbers its an irrelevance...
I suspect that £25 will put a lot of people off. The old 3 quidders fall away. The membership as at 6 months ago is hard to call: many long standing members left in despair and cannot now rejoin (but they could pay £25). Many Corbynites did join more than 6 months ago and are still there in force. Some soft Corbynites are disillusioned and could abandon Corbyn for a soft left alternative. But I still think the odds favour Corbyn.'
May hit Corbyn a little but the motivated hard left will not let £25 put them off the chance of gaining a stranglehold over Labour, potentially for ever. The 6 month freeze could be more significant though and at least gives non-Corbynites a chance
legacyopportunityI think the chances of it morphing into a party that will appeal to the Northern Cities are rather lower than it fading away. After all the Party was set up with one goal in mind that has been achieved, why should it continue and who is going to pay for it?
Pictures of Jezza coming out of the meeting closely followed by Seumas. Who seemed pleased as punch.
Such chivalry.