@JeremyCliffe: Imagine a Labour 2.0 with 170 MPs, including the party's big names. That party becomes official opposition. Corbyn's Labour 1.0 irrelevant.
IMO Corbyn now has to stand on a ticket of mandatory reselection for all MPs.
Do you mean if he wins the contest Labour then should go into a full party reselection process? All MP's....?
Holy crap!
PLP has to be replaced wholesale.
Bradshaw, Eagles and the rest of the pro Iraq brigade have been MPs for too long.
15 years of Blairite only shortlists have produced a type of Lab MP that wouldnt recognise a working class voter if they tripped over them at the Food Bank
You would deselect Attlee
The far left have no interest in the working class, other than as casualties in their fantasy march to a Maoist state.
A close result but Corbyn gets on the ballot. The best Eagle can hope for is to wound him, the latest members' poll had her getting 40% to his 50% and if Smith runs too he could take a few Corbyn first preferences as well. However Labour has again proved it lacks Tory ruthlessness, Tory rules ensured IDS never faced a second member's ballot in 2003 because he might well have won it. If Corbyn wins the membership ballot again he likely leads the party into the next election unless it is very close in which case UKIP will be breathing hard down Labour's neck and potentially wating into the white working class, the Tories will be the largest party in all likelihood, the question is if Corbyn Labour or UKIP takes second place, especially if the LDs eat onto social democratic Labour voters too
The hard left is very ruthless and relentless. It has achieved everything it ever wanted from the Labour party. It now has full control and a platform from which to spearhead the proletarian uprising :-D
Will Corbyn win a GE? No. Will someone who thinks and looks like Corbyn win a GE? No. What will happen to a Labour party that looks and thinks like Corbyn? They ain't going to win in Nuneaton.
They ain't going to win Sunderland, Hartlepool and Durham North West....
The Courts won't overturn the NEC interpretation, which seems to be the better view anyway.
A good chunk of the Labour MPs who voted no confidence will lose their nerve and fall into line. De-selection won't be necessary because re-selection will be required by new constituency boundaries. Momentum will overwhelm old Labour.
The hard left has taken over the Labour Party now. Will what's left of the Labour vote mostly stay with it? Possibly. It won't be enough to win an election. But it might be enough to keep Labour going for a good few years yet, and that leaves no room for another left of centre party to do well in England and Wales under FPTP.
We must wait for Labour members to weary of opposition. That will take years and years and years.
That would only be true if he wouldn't have won without them. That's not the case, if I recall correctly he would even have won among long-standing members.
That's true, but those new supporters gave him the momentum, and swept up those that should have known better. I honestly don't think it would have happened otherwise.
Laura Kuenssberg ✔ Highly likely that Labour Party itself will challenge the decision in the courts 8:01 PM - 12 Jul 2016
What does that mean?
Who is the Labour Party that will do the challenging?
Is it the NEC who will challenge their own decision?
Doesn't make any sense. Who but the NEC itself makes decisions for the party in general?
Representative Action.
I was a member of a committee which tried to get rid of me. Sued them "on their own behalf and on behalf of all members of the committee except the claimant" was the wording, IIRC...
IMO Corbyn now has to stand on a ticket of mandatory reselection for all MPs.
Do you mean if he wins the contest Labour then should go into a full party reselection process? All MP's....?
Holy crap!
PLP has to be replaced wholesale.
Bradshaw, Eagles and the rest of the pro Iraq brigade have been MPs for too long.
15 years of Blairite only shortlists have produced a type of Lab MP that wouldnt recognise a working class voter if they tripped over them at the Food Bank
A close result but Corbyn gets on the ballot. The best Eagle can hope for is to wound him, the latest members' poll had her getting 40% to his 50% and if Smith runs too he could take a few Corbyn first preferences as well. However Labour has again proved it lacks Tory ruthlessness, Tory rules ensured IDS never faced a second member's ballot in 2003 because he might well have won it. If Corbyn wins the membership ballot again he likely leads the party into the next election unless it is very close in which case UKIP will be breathing hard down Labour's neck and potentially wating into the white working class, the Tories will be the largest party in all likelihood, the question is if Corbyn Labour or UKIP takes second place, especially if the LDs eat onto social democratic Labour voters too
The hard left is very ruthless and relentless. It has achieved everything it ever wanted from the Labour party. It now has full control and a platform from which to spearhead the proletarian uprising :-D
Will Corbyn win a GE? No. Will someone who thinks and looks like Corbyn win a GE? No. What will happen to a Labour party that looks and thinks like Corbyn? They ain't going to win in Nuneaton.
They ain't going to win Sunderland, Hartlepool and Durham North West....
Congrats to the Tories - you've won the next 2-3 General Elections.
Labour heading for sub 20% at next GE under Corbyn.
This is an interesting point Mr Murali
If Jez wins the contest and then loses the next election but hangs still refusing to go is anyone able to remove him? Ever?
Split inevitable by the looks
As Corbyn does not see Labour as a Parliamentary party, but a mass movement of its members, what happens in a general election is of no interest to him.
Good. Now we can actually have a fair election and find out whether Eagle, Smith or anyone else has a genuine alternative to offer. It's embarrassing that they were pinning their hopes to keeping their opponent off the ballot.
Let's hope it will be fair. What do you reckon will happen if Corbyn wins? Can't form a govt with this PLP.
Form a government? You actually think that Jez would ever ever ever be in such a position.
Really Admire your loyalty and all that but Jeeeezzz...
@JeremyCliffe: Members / money not problem for Labour 2.0. Donors plentiful. Thousands of moderates in current membership. Potential for new recruits huge.
A close result but Corbyn gets on the ballot. The best Eagle can hope for is to wound him, the latest members' poll had her getting 40% to his 50% and if Smith runs too he could take a few Corbyn first preferences as well. However Labour has again proved it lacks Tory ruthlessness, Tory rules ensured IDS never faced a second member's ballot in 2003 because he might well have won it. If Corbyn wins the membership ballot again he likely leads the party into the next election unless it is very close in which case UKIP will be breathing hard down Labour's neck and potentially wating into the white working class, the Tories will be the largest party in all likelihood, the question is if Corbyn Labour or UKIP takes second place, especially if the LDs eat onto social democratic Labour voters too
The hard left is very ruthless and relentless. It has achieved everything it ever wanted from the Labour party. It now has full control and a platform from which to spearhead the proletarian uprising :-D
Will Corbyn win a GE? No. Will someone who thinks and looks like Corbyn win a GE? No. What will happen to a Labour party that looks and thinks like Corbyn? They ain't going to win in Nuneaton.
They ain't going to win Sunderland, Hartlepool and Durham North West....
Dudley, Walsall. Normal places. it's ok though they might win leeds nw off the lib dems which would make it all worthwhile
Makes me sick to see Corbyn on the TV enthusing about the leadership campaign - if he had put just a tiniest fraction of that enthusiasm in to the referendum campaign then perhaps he wouldn't have cost thousands of workers their jobs in a year or two.
It is politically stupid but it's technically and morally right. The original stupidity was gifting Corbyn the 35 MPs last year to enter the leadership race.
His leadership campaign let the socialist cat out of the bag and the only way to now wring that cat's neck and stuff it back in the bag is to beat it in a one-on-one leadership contest.
I think Labour can do that if they have the right candidate and make a barnstorming argument.
And exactly who is that candidate and can make that argument. I look down my (very gren) betfair candidate list and there isn't a single name that is either the right candidate nor could do a barnstorming argument...
Dunno. Certainly not Eagle.
Jess Phillips? Dan Jarvis? Ed Miliband?
It's a tough one. But if they can beat him and then quickly change the rules and get their party back again.
If Corbyn is that useless he can't be that tough to beat. Surely?
What's the point in challenging the decision in the courts? They may as well spend that time organising a breakaway party, which is how this will end.
The old Labour model is dead. The party belongs to the left, now, and it is entirely reasonable for the UK to have a socialist party, fighting its corner within a pluralist PR system.
Those within Labour who cannot accept its new role need to decide whether they to join the LibDems, Greens, or nationalist parties, or whether to form an SDP2.
All of the non-Conservative parties (possibly ex UKIP) need to think through the best way to co-operate with the shared objective of meaningful electoral and constitutional reform.
Hmmm May must be very tempted to go to the country now, a big majority a dead cert, Tory remainers don't love the e.u they love their wealth and it will be a cold day in hell before they risk a divided Corbyn led labour party with the economy by voting UKIP or Libdem. We have enough change already.
If she goes to the country in October only the Tories have the resources to fight a GE and they will win a 60 seat majority atleast.
Question is can new legislation to get rid of FTPA be enacted and get throuh the lords in time.
A close result but Corbyn gets on the ballot. The best Eagle can hope for is to wound him, the latest members' poll had her getting 40% to his 50% and if Smith runs too he could take a few Corbyn first preferences as well. However Labour has again proved it lacks Tory ruthlessness, Tory rules ensured IDS never faced a second member's ballot in 2003 because he might well have won it. If Corbyn wins the membership ballot again he likely leads the party into the next election unless it is very close in which case UKIP will be breathing hard down Labour's neck and potentially wating into the white working class, the Tories will be the largest party in all likelihood, the question is if Corbyn Labour or UKIP takes second place, especially if the LDs eat onto social democratic Labour voters too
The hard left is very ruthless and relentless. It has achieved everything it ever wanted from the Labour party. It now has full control and a platform from which to spearhead the proletarian uprising :-D
Will Corbyn win a GE? No. Will someone who thinks and looks like Corbyn win a GE? No. What will happen to a Labour party that looks and thinks like Corbyn? They ain't going to win in Nuneaton.
They ain't going to win Sunderland, Hartlepool and Durham North West....
Care for a wager on Sunderland/Hartlepool?
I was going to say too many unknowns at the moment but £20 on Hartlepool?
@JeremyCliffe: Imagine a Labour 2.0 with 170 MPs, including the party's big names. That party becomes official opposition. Corbyn's Labour 1.0 irrelevant.
It gets about 5% in a General Election, and no seats apart from a few in London.
All the plaudits from smug liberal pundits like Mr Cliffe would not be much consolation, I'm guessing.
Labour couldn't organise panic in a sinking ship. How the hell do they expect to run the country?
I think Southam has persuaded me that they don't want to run the country. They want to criticise the people who run the country. It's easier and morally satisfying.
@JeremyCliffe: Members / money not problem for Labour 2.0. Donors plentiful. Thousands of moderates in current membership. Potential for new recruits huge.
But no Union support.
Labour would be bankrupt without the Union money and SDP2 will be hamstrung by a lack of funds.
But then so will Labour as the big money donors are likely to switch to SDP2.
Good. Now we can actually have a fair election and find out whether Eagle, Smith or anyone else has a genuine alternative to offer. It's embarrassing that they were pinning their hopes to keeping their opponent off the ballot.
Just seen this post on Facebook "Another victory for Jeremy. Now all we need is for capitalist Labour MP's to join the Clueless Toff Party and we can begin the resurrection of the international project for equality and dignity". In that succinct paragraph you see the problem with Corbyn's Labour party - stuck in a seventies class-war time warp
A close result but Corbyn gets on the ballot. The best Eagle can hope for is to wound him, the latest members' poll had her getting 40% to his 50% and if Smith runs too he could take a few Corbyn first preferences as well. However Labour has again proved it lacks Tory ruthlessness, Tory rules ensured IDS never faced a second member's ballot in 2003 because he might well have won it. If Corbyn wins the membership ballot again he likely leads the party into the next election unless it is very close in which case UKIP will be breathing hard down Labour's neck and potentially wating into the white working class, the Tories will be the largest party in all likelihood, the question is if Corbyn Labour or UKIP takes second place, especially if the LDs eat onto social democratic Labour voters too
The hard left is very ruthless and relentless. It has achieved everything it ever wanted from the Labour party. It now has full control and a platform from which to spearhead the proletarian uprising :-D
Will Corbyn win a GE? No. Will someone who thinks and looks like Corbyn win a GE? No. What will happen to a Labour party that looks and thinks like Corbyn? They ain't going to win in Nuneaton.
And Corbyn Labour will not give a monkeys. The path to socialism lies via a mass rising of the proletariat. It's Labour's job to facilitate that. And that will happen from the street. It's basic 1970s revolutionary Marxism.
What's the point in challenging the decision in the courts? They may as well spend that time organising a breakaway party, which is how this will end.
The old Labour model is dead. The party belongs to the left, now, and it is entirely reasonable for the UK to have a socialist party, fighting its corner within a pluralist PR system.
Those within Labour who cannot accept its new role need to decide whether they to join the LibDems, Greens, or nationalist parties, or whether to form an SDP2.
All of the non-Conservative parties (possibly ex UKIP) need to think through the best way to co-operate with the shared objective of meaningful electoral and constitutional reform.
It is politically stupid but it's technically and morally right. The original stupidity was gifting Corbyn the 35 MPs last year to enter the leadership race.
His leadership campaign let the socialist cat out of the bag and the only way to now wring that cat's neck and stuff it back in the bag is to beat it in a one-on-one leadership contest.
I think Labour can do that if they have the right candidate and make a barnstorming argument.
And exactly who is that candidate and can make that argument. I look down my (very gren) betfair candidate list and there isn't a single name that is either the right candidate nor could do a barnstorming argument...
Dunno. Certainly not Eagle.
Jess Phillips? Dan Jarvis? Ed Miliband?
It's a tough one. But if they can beat him and then quickly change the rules and get their party back again.
If Corbyn is that useless he can't be that tough to beat. Surely?
It would be interesting to hear from HenryG right now. Would love some insight.
Labour as a Parliamentary party is dead. That's all you need to know.
The inside view as to what comes next is what I'm interested in, do the rebels lose and knuckle under or do they split, if they split then how do they go about finding etc... if they knuckle under then how long until they declare a white peace and rejoin the Shadow Cabinet.
@JeremyCliffe: Members / money not problem for Labour 2.0. Donors plentiful. Thousands of moderates in current membership. Potential for new recruits huge.
If the "potential for new recruits is huge", then we'll see how many £3 recruitments they get for the "moderate" candidate in the upcoming leadership election.
I know a lot of these members and can well believe they will keep Corbyn in place.And the less said about the 3 quidders (fucking Ed`s brainwave), the better.
Yeah, but he would have won with party members alone.
Think what they might poll once the MPs are replaced with loyal Corbynistas. More than 30%.
Then Theresa May doesn't put EU Freedom of Movement on the same footing as non EU citizens and the Conservatives rebel.
Labour could then poll higher than Conservative, although without Scotland Labour can not win outright.
No way, 62% preferred May as PM to 18% Corbyn in a poll yesterday and the Tories are on about 38% even with Labour on 30%. Say May agrees EEA and EFTA and Corbyn leads Labour into the next election, the biggest gainers would be UKIP who could take equally from both main parties while Farron's LDs may also be fractionally up, I could see a result something like Tories 31%, UKIP 27%, Labour 23%, LDs 10% and UKIP become the main opposition party, at least in voteshare terms.
Good. Now we can actually have a fair election and find out whether Eagle, Smith or anyone else has a genuine alternative to offer. It's embarrassing that they were pinning their hopes to keeping their opponent off the ballot.
With 200k Trots as members, no-one else has a chance. I can hope for a miracle. It's quite likely I will tear up my membership once the old fool wins again.
A bleak day for progressive politics. The Tories on here must be cock-a-hoop.
Oh, for goodness sake! All this wailing and gnashing of teeth, and from some who are old enough to know better is a bit pathetic. We had all the same predictions when Foot was leader and especially when he lost the 1983 election. We also heard much the same about the Conservatives after 2001.
Labour as a party is not going to die. I very much doubt it will split. It may well lose the 2020 general election but then the Conservatives lost three GEs in a row before they found their feet again and started to appeal to people outside their core vote.
Imagine that we lurch into decline post Brexit. That's the one scenario where, in despair, the British might elect Corbyn's Labour.
Within five years we'd be a European Venezuela. Food shortages. Riots. Civil strife.
Great.
As we have seen this week if there was even a smidgeon of a chance Corbyn might win an election the Tories would ruthlessly change leader to someone who would more likely win an election.
Besides if the party splits I can't foresee a way Labour could win a majority, even with an unlikely SNP collapse. Worst case realistic scenario would be a Lab and SNP coalition.
It would be interesting to hear from HenryG right now. Would love some insight.
Labour as a Parliamentary party is dead. That's all you need to know.
The inside view as to what comes next is what I'm interested in, do the rebels lose and knuckle under or do they split, if they split then how do they go about finding etc... if they knuckle under then how long until they declare a white peace and rejoin the Shadow Cabinet.
IMO Corbyn now has to stand on a ticket of mandatory reselection for all MPs.
Do you mean if he wins the contest Labour then should go into a full party reselection process? All MP's....?
Holy crap!
Yes. Corbyn has lost the support of MPs of all political views. Left, Right, Blairite, Brownite, soft left, Blue Labour etc. Obviously all of these people are just 'wrong'. Consequently, the Labour party will become uniformly Corbynite. Unlike any other political party, Labour will cease to be a board church of views. Only Corbynism will be tolerated. It was always going to be this way as many Corbynites I've spoken to cannot deal with disagreement on any subject whatsoever.
One of the UK's two great political parties has been taken over by the mad people who throw rocks through windows. Incroyable.
I cannot understand the perspectives of militant leftists at all. Don't they actually want to improve people's lives? Is being a protest movement and perpetual complainers really better than making sure that all kids have a chance in life etc? Margaret Beckett must hate herself right now.
She wasn't the only one was she but I cannot recall who the others were. I'm sure someone can enlighten me.
IMO Corbyn now has to stand on a ticket of mandatory reselection for all MPs.
Do you mean if he wins the contest Labour then should go into a full party reselection process? All MP's....?
Holy crap!
PLP has to be replaced wholesale.
Bradshaw, Eagles and the rest of the pro Iraq brigade have been MPs for too long.
15 years of Blairite only shortlists have produced a type of Lab MP that wouldnt recognise a working class voter if they tripped over them at the Food Bank
Ok see where you are coming from but good or bad , love him or hate him, Blair won 3 elections in a row two were landslides. He connected with voters across the centre ground in the political arena that Jez just doesn't. The whole point of opposition is to oppose of course but also to ultimately win power
Blair did, Jez ( bless his little Cotten socks) just cannot.
It would be interesting to hear from HenryG right now. Would love some insight.
Labour as a Parliamentary party is dead. That's all you need to know.
The inside view as to what comes next is what I'm interested in, do the rebels lose and knuckle under or do they split, if they split then how do they go about finding etc... if they knuckle under then how long until they declare a white peace and rejoin the Shadow Cabinet.
The high profile ones will mostly be deselected.
Hmm, I wonder whether they might declare a ceasefire in order to keep Momentum at bay. MPs are going to have to work very, very hard to recruit new moderate members.
OK, now is the time for May to make a big, open offer to moderate, sensible Labour members to jump ship. Kendall, Chuka, Tristram... We'd even take Woodward back. Maybe.
Pre-empt the Lab split by getting some of their better people to join a decent, centrist Tory administration - it would be a stroke of genius.
May could do that but then IDS, Patterson, Leadsom, Rees-Mogg, Redwood, Tebbit, Cash etc would then swiftly move to UKIP in response
Did we evert get a final decision on the cut-off date for £3 supporters being able to vote in this? I seem to recall someone said no one who joined after June 2016 would be allowed.
@DavidRoe92: In fairness, 150 or so Labour MPs can create a big party quickly from a standing start and take Opposition slots right away. Not a gang of 6
@DavidRoe92: In fairness, 150 or so Labour MPs can create a big party quickly from a standing start and take Opposition slots right away. Not a gang of 6
Imagine that we lurch into decline post Brexit. That's the one scenario where, in despair, the British might elect Corbyn's Labour.
Within five years we'd be a European Venezuela. Food shortages. Riots. Civil strife.
Great.
As we have seen this week if there was even a smidgeon of a chance Corbyn might win an election the Tories would ruthlessly change leader to someone who would more likely win an election.
Besides if the party splits I can't foresee a way Labour could win a majority, even with an unlikely SNP collapse. Worst case realistic scenario would be a Lab and SNP coalition.
The SNP are not daft. NS knows a dead duck when she sees one. Even if a Corybn premiership was a possibility in the future, I think the UK in its present form would have ended by that point.
A close result but Corbyn gets on the ballot. The best Eagle can hope for is to wound him, the latest members' poll had her getting 40% to his 50% and if Smith runs too he could take a few Corbyn first preferences as well. However Labour has again proved it lacks Tory ruthlessness, Tory rules ensured IDS never faced a second member's ballot in 2003 because he might well have won it. If Corbyn wins the membership ballot again he likely leads the party into the next election unless it is very close in which case UKIP will be breathing hard down Labour's neck and potentially wating into the white working class, the Tories will be the largest party in all likelihood, the question is if Corbyn Labour or UKIP takes second place, especially if the LDs eat onto social democratic Labour voters too
The hard left is very ruthless and relentless. It has achieved everything it ever wanted from the Labour party. It now has full control and a platform from which to spearhead the proletarian uprising :-D
Will Corbyn win a GE? No. Will someone who thinks and looks like Corbyn win a GE? No. What will happen to a Labour party that looks and thinks like Corbyn? They ain't going to win in Nuneaton.
And Corbyn Labour will not give a monkeys. The path to socialism lies via a mass rising of the proletariat. It's Labour's job to facilitate that. And that will happen from the street. It's basic 1970s revolutionary Marxism.
You recently re-joined this party that you say is aimed at a mass rising of the proletariat and "seizing the means of production" (your words from earlier today). Buyers remorse? Will you once again be resigning your membership?
One for you. Just wandering through the amazon Prime Day deals, and found that the #1 best seller in toys and games is Exploding Kittens - a card game for people who are into kittens and explosions and laser beams and sometimes goats. It's a deal at $15, 20% off
You have to assume that, if the hollowed-out membership of the Labour Party can be taken over so quickly in the internet age, the same thing will happen to the Conservative Party one day.
@Independent: Exclusive: Theresa May’s husband is senior executive at a $1.4tn hedge fund that profits from tax avoiding companies https://t.co/6A4XGC3QUQ
I know a lot of these members and can well believe they will keep Corbyn in place.And the less said about the 3 quidders (fucking Ed`s brainwave), the better.
@DavidRoe92: In fairness, 150 or so Labour MPs can create a big party quickly from a standing start and take Opposition slots right away. Not a gang of 6
He's right, but do they have the gumption?
Compouter says no...
Do they have the constituency organisation and trade union backing?
IMO Corbyn now has to stand on a ticket of mandatory reselection for all MPs.
Do you mean if he wins the contest Labour then should go into a full party reselection process? All MP's....?
Holy crap!
PLP has to be replaced wholesale.
Bradshaw, Eagles and the rest of the pro Iraq brigade have been MPs for too long.
15 years of Blairite only shortlists have produced a type of Lab MP that wouldnt recognise a working class voter if they tripped over them at the Food Bank
Spot on - the working class is crying out for unrestricted immigration, solidarity with the IRA and Hamas, unilateral nuclear disarmament and the abolition of the monarchy. :-D
IMO Corbyn now has to stand on a ticket of mandatory reselection for all MPs.
Do you mean if he wins the contest Labour then should go into a full party reselection process? All MP's....?
Holy crap!
PLP has to be replaced wholesale.
Bradshaw, Eagles and the rest of the pro Iraq brigade have been MPs for too long.
15 years of Blairite only shortlists have produced a type of Lab MP that wouldnt recognise a working class voter if they tripped over them at the Food Bank
Ok see where you are coming from but good or bad , love him or hate him, Blair won 3 elections in a row two were landslides. He connected with voters across the centre ground in the political arena that Jez just doesn't. The whole point of opposition is to oppose of course but also to ultimately win power
Blair did, Jez ( bless his little Cotten socks) just cannot.
It's the centre ground .......
I suspect Jezza would never have got hold of the leadership (and we wouldn't have Brexited) if Blair hadn't taken us to war with Iraq....
@DavidRoe92: In fairness, 150 or so Labour MPs can create a big party quickly from a standing start and take Opposition slots right away. Not a gang of 6
Imagine that we lurch into decline post Brexit. That's the one scenario where, in despair, the British might elect Corbyn's Labour.
Within five years we'd be a European Venezuela. Food shortages. Riots. Civil strife.
Great.
May, now in power, will steady things. She may be good, she may be bad (buts she's "May" I guess the joke will go). Anyway the point is that she'll deliver a minimal competence. I think that we'll find that UK plc thrives as long as the world picture doesn't interrupt things.
Corbyn and (now) Labour do not have the minimal competence.
I am as gloomy as you about the prospects, but that's just because the world is busy getting it wrong.
IMO Corbyn now has to stand on a ticket of mandatory reselection for all MPs.
Do you mean if he wins the contest Labour then should go into a full party reselection process? All MP's....?
Holy crap!
Yes. Corbyn has lost the support of MPs of all political views. Left, Right, Blairite, Brownite, soft left, Blue Labour etc. Obviously all of these people are just 'wrong'. Consequently, the Labour party will become uniformly Corbynite. Unlike any other political party, Labour will cease to be a board church of views. Only Corbynism will be tolerated. It was always going to be this way as many Corbynites I've spoken to cannot deal with disagreement on any subject whatsoever.
Then they surely must leave then and reform as another party? If deselection beckons that probably is going to be sooner rather than later to be in position to fight GE2020
PM May must be looking at this and thinking dare I call a GE in September / October and finish off CorbyLabour and New Improved whiter than white Labour at the same time.
A close result but Corbyn gets on the ballot. The best Eagle can hope for is to wound him, the latest members' poll had her getting 40% to his 50% and if Smith runs too he could take a few Corbyn first preferences as well. However Labour has again proved it lacks Tory ruthlessness, Tory rules ensured IDS never faced a second member's ballot in 2003 because he might well have won it. If Corbyn wins the membership ballot again he likely leads the party into the next election unless it is very close in which case UKIP will be breathing hard down Labour's neck and potentially wating into the white working class, the Tories will be the largest party in all likelihood, the question is if Corbyn Labour or UKIP takes second place, especially if the LDs eat onto social democratic Labour voters too
The hard left is very ruthless and relentless. It has achieved everything it ever wanted from the Labour party. It now has full control and a platform from which to spearhead the proletarian uprising :-D
Will Corbyn win a GE? No. Will someone who thinks and looks like Corbyn win a GE? No. What will happen to a Labour party that looks and thinks like Corbyn? They ain't going to win in Nuneaton.
And Corbyn Labour will not give a monkeys. The path to socialism lies via a mass rising of the proletariat. It's Labour's job to facilitate that. And that will happen from the street. It's basic 1970s revolutionary Marxism.
You recently re-joined this party that you say is aimed at a mass rising of the proletariat and "seizing the means of production" (your words from earlier today). Buyers remorse? Will you once again be resigning your membership?
I don't recall the proletariat being that useful, when it came to it, to the revolutionaries who found themselves by chance in the right place to pick up power as Tsarist Russia collapsed? And the peasants were even less useful.
IMO Corbyn now has to stand on a ticket of mandatory reselection for all MPs.
Easiest way to do that is to back the boundary changes, right?
Best for the Conservatives not to trigger boundary changes and leave the anti Corbyn MPs in place.
Why? With the boundary changes the Conservatives gain a bigger majority and the Labour party falls into complete disunity with probably most of the current MPs eventually deselected. That then forces the "moderates" to form their own party before the GE and start to build that party ready for the GE. An SDP2.
A close result but Corbyn gets on the ballot. The best Eagle can hope for is to wound him, the latest members' poll had her getting 40% to his 50% and if Smith runs too he could take a few Corbyn first preferences as well. However Labour has again proved it lacks Tory ruthlessness, Tory rules ensured IDS never faced a second member's ballot in 2003 because he might well have won it. If Corbyn wins the membership ballot again he likely leads the party into the next election unless it is very close in which case UKIP will be breathing hard down Labour's neck and potentially wating into the white working class, the Tories will be the largest party in all likelihood, the question is if Corbyn Labour or UKIP takes second place, especially if the LDs eat onto social democratic Labour voters too
The hard left is very ruthless and relentless. It has achieved everything it ever wanted from the Labour party. It now has full control and a platform from which to spearhead the proletarian uprising :-D
Will Corbyn win a GE? No. Will someone who thinks and looks like Corbyn win a GE? No. What will happen to a Labour party that looks and thinks like Corbyn? They ain't going to win in Nuneaton.
And Corbyn Labour will not give a monkeys. The path to socialism lies via a mass rising of the proletariat. It's Labour's job to facilitate that. And that will happen from the street. It's basic 1970s revolutionary Marxism.
You recently re-joined this party that you say is aimed at a mass rising of the proletariat and "seizing the means of production" (your words from earlier today). Buyers remorse? Will you once again be resigning your membership?
Wait to see who triumphs. Jezza is through to the final, but is not lifting the cup just yet. Play to the whistle!
If he wins, Labour are dead for a generation at least.
I was looking for the pb predictions of 2016. I recall predicting that there would be a Labour leadership election, but Jezza to stay on.
A close result but Corbyn gets on the ballot. The best Eagle can hope for is to wound him, the latest members' poll had her getting 40% to his 50% and if Smith runs too he could take a few Corbyn first preferences as well. However Labour has again proved it lacks Tory ruthlessness, Tory rules ensured IDS never faced a second member's ballot in 2003 because he might well have won it. If Corbyn wins the membership ballot again he likely leads the party into the next election unless it is very close in which case UKIP will be breathing hard down Labour's neck and potentially wating into the white working class, the Tories will be the largest party in all likelihood, the question is if Corbyn Labour or UKIP takes second place, especially if the LDs eat onto social democratic Labour voters too
The hard left is very ruthless and relentless. It has achieved everything it ever wanted from the Labour party. It now has full control and a platform from which to spearhead the proletarian uprising :-D
Will Corbyn win a GE? No. Will someone who thinks and looks like Corbyn win a GE? No. What will happen to a Labour party that looks and thinks like Corbyn? They ain't going to win in Nuneaton.
And Corbyn Labour will not give a monkeys. The path to socialism lies via a mass rising of the proletariat. It's Labour's job to facilitate that. And that will happen from the street. It's basic 1970s revolutionary Marxism.
You recently re-joined this party that you say is aimed at a mass rising of the proletariat and "seizing the means of production" (your words from earlier today). Buyers remorse? Will you once again be resigning your membership?
I want to vote against Corbyn and find out more about my fellow CLP members and their thoughts.
Says it all really. Twitter Rachel Reeves@RachelReevesMP Follow @saving_labour tonight to join the campaign and get the strong leadership we so urgently need
A close result but Corbyn gets on the ballot. The best Eagle can hope for is to wound him, the latest members' poll had her getting 40% to his 50% and if Smith runs too he could take a few Corbyn first preferences as well. However Labour has again proved it lacks Tory ruthlessness, Tory rules ensured IDS never faced a second member's ballot in 2003 because he might well have won it. If Corbyn wins the membership ballot again he likely leads the party into the next election unless it is very close in which case UKIP will be breathing hard down Labour's neck and potentially wating into the white working class, the Tories will be the largest party in all likelihood, the question is if Corbyn Labour or UKIP takes second place, especially if the LDs eat onto social democratic Labour voters too
The hard left is very ruthless and relentless. It has achieved everything it ever wanted from the Labour party. It now has full control and a platform from which to spearhead the proletarian uprising :-D
Yes, it will be a Mediterranean party of protest, much as they wanted, however short of an economic apocalypse it will never get within a million miles of forming a government ever again!
Makes me sick to see Corbyn on the TV enthusing about the leadership campaign - if he had put just a tiniest fraction of that enthusiasm in to the referendum campaign then perhaps he wouldn't have cost thousands of workers their jobs in a year or two.
I would address that to Tristram Hunt, one of the MPs for Stoke plus many others.
Comments
A good chunk of the Labour MPs who voted no confidence will lose their nerve and fall into line. De-selection won't be necessary because re-selection will be required by new constituency boundaries. Momentum will overwhelm old Labour.
The hard left has taken over the Labour Party now. Will what's left of the Labour vote mostly stay with it? Possibly. It won't be enough to win an election. But it might be enough to keep Labour going for a good few years yet, and that leaves no room for another left of centre party to do well in England and Wales under FPTP.
We must wait for Labour members to weary of opposition. That will take years and years and years.
I was a member of a committee which tried to get rid of me. Sued them "on their own behalf and on behalf of all members of the committee except the claimant" was the wording, IIRC...
tasty
The Labour Party
RIP
1900 - 2016
God only knows what the public think of these shenanigans. I'll ring my Mum and ask. She knows the score.
#CarryOnCorbyn
Really Admire your loyalty and all that but Jeeeezzz...
it's ok though they might win leeds nw off the lib dems which would make it all worthwhile
Jess Phillips? Dan Jarvis? Ed Miliband?
It's a tough one. But if they can beat him and then quickly change the rules and get their party back again.
If Corbyn is that useless he can't be that tough to beat. Surely?
Those within Labour who cannot accept its new role need to decide whether they to join the LibDems, Greens, or nationalist parties, or whether to form an SDP2.
All of the non-Conservative parties (possibly ex UKIP) need to think through the best way to co-operate with the shared objective of meaningful electoral and constitutional reform.
Think what they might poll once the MPs are replaced with loyal Corbynistas. More than 30%.
Then Theresa May doesn't put EU Freedom of Movement on the same footing as non EU citizens and the Conservatives rebel.
Labour could then poll higher than Conservative, although without Scotland Labour can not win outright.
If she goes to the country in October only the Tories have the resources to fight a GE and they will win a 60 seat majority atleast.
Question is can new legislation to get rid of FTPA be enacted and get throuh the lords in time.
All the plaudits from smug liberal pundits like Mr Cliffe would not be much consolation, I'm guessing.
Labour would be bankrupt without the Union money and SDP2 will be hamstrung by a lack of funds.
But then so will Labour as the big money donors are likely to switch to SDP2.
Peston is undone.
Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 12m12 minutes ago
It looks as though Corbyn has lost
You know she can do it!
Lolwut?
Lincoln Red Imps 1-0 Celtic
A bleak day for progressive politics. The Tories on here must be cock-a-hoop.
Labour as a party is not going to die. I very much doubt it will split. It may well lose the 2020 general election but then the Conservatives lost three GEs in a row before they found their feet again and started to appeal to people outside their core vote.
Besides if the party splits I can't foresee a way Labour could win a majority, even with an unlikely SNP collapse. Worst case realistic scenario would be a Lab and SNP coalition.
https://afterlabour.org/2016/07/12/corbyn-and-the-new-political-puritans/
Blair did, Jez ( bless his little Cotten socks) just cannot.
It's the centre ground .......
NEC voting now on membership freeze date for leadership election.
Before the 100k recent signs up would be nice.
He's right, but do they have the gumption?
Compouter says no...
They had to follow the rules in the same way a judge has to follow the law.
It needs a genuine heavyweight to stand and defeat him, change the rules then resign .
Anyone offering odds on Lord (Neil) Kinnock yet?
Imagine it halved. That takes us to 1984. We're a long, long way from Venezuela.
Do it per capita. 25% decline turns us into Japan. 50% decline turns us into Spain. We're a long way from Venezuela.
Who?
One for you. Just wandering through the amazon Prime Day deals, and found that the #1 best seller in toys and games is Exploding Kittens - a card game for people who are into kittens and explosions and laser beams and sometimes goats. It's a deal at $15, 20% off
Labour will be all over this.
oh, wait...
We're a long, long way from Venezuela.
But how far are we from Tipperary?
Corbyn and (now) Labour do not have the minimal competence.
I am as gloomy as you about the prospects, but that's just because the world is busy getting it wrong.
PM May must be looking at this and thinking dare I call a GE in September / October and finish off CorbyLabour and New Improved whiter than white Labour at the same time.
https://twitter.com/BorisBrownBets/status/752949215945515008
If he wins, Labour are dead for a generation at least.
I was looking for the pb predictions of 2016. I recall predicting that there would be a Labour leadership election, but Jezza to stay on.
Twitter
Rachel Reeves@RachelReevesMP
Follow @saving_labour tonight to join the campaign and get the strong leadership we so urgently need