''I realise that because of my job I am pretty purist about these things. But moral compasses matter. They are too rare. If someone's default instinct is not to tell the truth but to fantasise about themselves and their achievement then that tells me something important about that person, none of it good. ''
FFS Cyclefree, get over yourself. What are you some kind of ultimate moral arbiter? don't you realise how pompous you sound?
Theresa May is a remainer painting herself as the right person to take us out of the European Union.
What's honest about that?
Cyclefree can stick up for herself. My issue is with talking about May as a 'Remainer'. We have to quickly stop this habit of labeling people in this way, as if someone who voted remain is some kind of untermensch.
The EU is not (or at least, not entirely) run by Lizard People. Our politicians aren't necessarily in thrall to the EU.
Brexit is Brexit. Who is the best, most experienced person to build a team, put any necessary vote through the House and deliver a result? Brexit itself is not the PM's full time job. That will be a departmental level responsibility.
There are many other important things that need to happen over the next four years. The country must be well run on behalf of the entire electorate. We must ensure that Labour (unless radically changed) does not get anywhere near the levers of power in 2020.
I voted Leave. I will be voting May because she has the support of the PCP, and is simply a safer pair of hands at a time when that is critically important.
Quite: the referendum campaign is over. The result is in. Now we need to choose the best person to lead the country.
I don't have a vote. And I don't think any of the parties will want to have a GE. So the future of our country is in the hands of a small group who, one hopes, will think about the best person to lead the country and not see this as some sort of "Leave" virility test.
Brexit was always a risky option. How risky - and whether it can be an opportunity to reset our relationship with the rest of the Continent onto a more viable footing and to reset the national conversation between the different parts of the UK - depends crucially on who gets chosen. What side of a campaign which has ended someone was on is the least important quality one should be looking at when deciding who to put in charge of the country at this time.
Joking aside, I have no competency in this area. That normally doesn't stop me . I think it's going to be incredibly tough. We simply have more skin in the game. I do think there will be some internal pressures that will mean that a deal will be necessary for the EU as well as Britain, other than that, it's in the lap of the Gods.
My view is that, if things move quickly, then they move to our advantage. As has been pointed out, the Eurozone recovery is fragile (albeit it grew faster than the UK or the US in Q1), and they won't want to jeopardise that.
But I think if more time passes, then the balance of power moves away from us. We are the people who depend more on inward investment. We are the people with the current account deficit.
We feel pain almost immediately: see the on-line job vacancies data or the construction PMI. They're scared it will spread to them. But six months down the line - if we don't have a deal outline in place - we'll start losing businesses like financial services who can't wait to see if we got passporting. (The French, for example, will prevaricate on passporting. If they give in on day 650 of 720, then a bunch of financial services will likely have moved already.)
Chill. Amazon are hiring 1000 more people today, the British are still going to buy cheap tat from China and be paid shit wages in warehouses Brexit or not.
Losing 1,000 bankers at that average wage and replacing them with 1,000 Amazon warehouse workers is the fast track to the poor house.
Losing 1,000 bankers at that average wage and replacing them with 1,000 Amazon warehouse workers is the fast track to the poor house.
Unlike the banks (especially Lloyds) who are offshoring any IT job they can to save a few quid, Amazon are happy to pay full market rate and more for decent IT staff.
You may be sniffy about the Amazon warehouse jobs but at least they are expanding whilst banks move any job they possibly can out of the UK....
Edit to add I was in a Halifax last week watching them use 17 year old equipment because they haven't updated their systems - no need to as the branch will close soon...
London generates about 30% of our tax revenue. Alastair is a complete tit sometimes, but he's right about the importance of London. Without London, the UK becomes, overnight, Italy.
The future for this country is high value-add services. We might not like it, but there it is.
I am not sure people do like it, John.
Corbyn was quite shrewd yesterday in pointing out the mismatch in state investment that goes into London, and even in London there are vast hordes of people who benefit very little.
Anyone think it might be a good idea for Cameron to give Leadsom a cabinet job for a couple of months? (Northern Ireland, perhaps - I jest). It hardly seems right that May has to combine 2 months campaigning for PM with her full time job at the Home Office, when Leadsom has basically nothing to distract her.
Alternatively perhaps it would be sensible for May to step down.
We have to consider events that can affect the Tory leadership election.
It's very clear that Italy is heading for a banking crash, as another episode of the eurozone crisis starts.
Italy's problem is actually very small. When we talk about 350bn of non-performing loans, we're talking about 350bn of non-performing loans that have already been recognised. The big problem in banking is loans you think are performing, that suddenly aren't. (Barings, for example.)
The issue is that at the beginning of this year, the EU implemented new rules on state aid to banks. The effect of this was to 'bail in' senior creditors, and make state aid harder.
This has meant Italian banks are suddenly struggling to fund themselves. Who wants to risk being bailed in to a bank rescue?
What is ironic is that Ireland, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands and (biggest of all) Germany all put in place state supported bad banks to sort out their banking systems. Italy is prevented from following in their footsteps.
I think - personal view, not firm - that Renzi will just say "fuck it, sue me", and will both (a) recapitalise the most troubled banks (BMPS, for example) and create a bad bank to buy NPLs from the Unicredits of this world.
Total cost a fairly modest EUR35bn or so, against the almost half a trillion in assets at the German bad bank that was needed to sort out Hypo Real and WestLB.
Surely the Germans want the Italians to tell the commission to do one because it paves the way for them to bail out Deutsche Bank. The bail in for DB would be utterly huge if it starts to fail.
A more accurate statement would be
The bail in for DB will be utterly huge when it starts to fail. The question really is (as with Greece) how long can you kick the can along the road before the can falls apart...
Everything that's happening now is an inevitable consequence of the Brexit vote. If the country is fucked it's the fault of the people arguing to vote against the Prime Minister's position.
So you think they should have shown deference to their "betters" like in the old days? You really don't get the concept of Democracy, do you?
I used to, Mr Disraeli. But the concept seems to have changed a bit in recent months.
Apparently it is now acceptable to flout electoral law and grossly overspend on your campaign and then fiddle the return of expenses.
And, again apparently, it is now acceptable to tell as many bare-faced lies as you can think of in order to win more votes.
And, it seems, it is acceptable to do all this, bring the county to its knees, and then wash your hands of the whole business.
I certainly used to get the concept of democracy. But now the Tories have changed its meaning, i don`t "get it" at all. And what is more, I don`t like it.
That sounds to me not dissimilar to how the Lib Dems have always acted...
I think the Tory propaganda effort has got to you, Mr Quidder.
''I realise that because of my job I am pretty purist about these things. But moral compasses matter. They are too rare. If someone's default instinct is not to tell the truth but to fantasise about themselves and their achievement then that tells me something important about that person, none of it good. ''
FFS Cyclefree, get over yourself. What are you some kind of ultimate moral arbiter? don't you realise how pompous you sound?
Theresa May is a remainer painting herself as the right person to take us out of the European Union.
What's honest about that?
Cyclefree can stick up for herself. My issue is with talking about May as a 'Remainer'. We have to quickly stop this habit of labeling people in this way, as if someone who voted remain is some kind of untermensch.
The EU is not (or at least, not entirely) run by Lizard People. Our politicians aren't necessarily in thrall to the EU.
Brexit is Brexit. Who is the best, most experienced person to build a team, put any necessary vote through the House and deliver a result? Brexit itself is not the PM's full time job. That will be a departmental level responsibility.
There are many other important things that need to happen over the next four years. The country must be well run on behalf of the entire electorate. We must ensure that Labour (unless radically changed) does not get anywhere near the levers of power in 2020.
I voted Leave. I will be voting May because she has the support of the PCP, and is simply a safer pair of hands at a time when that is critically important.
Mr. Meeks, that's rather petty and vindictive. Are you trolling to get a reaction, or are you really content to wish ill upon your country?
Remember, Alastair renounced his allegiance to the country on the 24th. He moves on a higher plane now.
Is it a Gulfstream?
Even our Charles flies economy
BA generously put me in business out on this trip & 1A back.
Are you GGL?
Of course. Bloody hard to get flying economy!
LOL!
You can fly Economy because you know your chance of not getting upgraded is minimal.
Sssh! I was getting on well with the whole puritan stitck. Don't give the game away!
I'm pretty consistently in the 3-3,500 TP range, so always fall just short. That being said, I have a two day trip to Oz next month, Texas in September, San Fran in Nov and Las Vegas in January.
It requires an ungodly amount of flying (and a willingness to stick religiously to BA) to get GGL.
I usually run at somewhere between 5000 - 6000 so usually get CRC but this year I spent 3 months gardening so am stuck at GGL for the next 12 months
Try flying first around the US - $300 gets you 60TP.
Charles - sorry to hear about your gardening leave, I do hope it all works out for you.
It was self imposed! My bet on Brexit was moving from a German firm to a US one...made the call in April
Ah, that explains possibly why you recently mentioned your wife and daughter having landed in California. And there was me imagining that you worked for an august, establishment organisation in Fleet Street.
We have to consider events that can affect the Tory leadership election.
It's very clear that Italy is heading for a banking crash, as another episode of the eurozone crisis starts.
Italy's problem is actually very small. When we talk about 350bn of non-performing loans, we're talking about 350bn of non-performing loans that have already been recognised. The big problem in banking is loans you think are performing, that suddenly aren't. (Barings, for example.)
The issue is that at the beginning of this year, the EU implemented new rules on state aid to banks. The effect of this was to 'bail in' senior creditors, and make state aid harder.
This has meant Italian banks are suddenly struggling to fund themselves. Who wants to risk being bailed in to a bank rescue?
What is ironic is that Ireland, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands and (biggest of all) Germany all put in place state supported bad banks to sort out their banking systems. Italy is prevented from following in their footsteps.
I think - personal view, not firm - that Renzi will just say "fuck it, sue me", and will both (a) recapitalise the most troubled banks (BMPS, for example) and create a bad bank to buy NPLs from the Unicredits of this world.
Total cost a fairly modest EUR35bn or so, against the almost half a trillion in assets at the German bad bank that was needed to sort out Hypo Real and WestLB.
Surely the Germans want the Italians to tell the commission to do one because it paves the way for them to bail out Deutsche Bank. The bail in for DB would be utterly huge if it starts to fail.
I'd put that last sentence in the present tense frankly. DB is to all intents and purposes already failing.
What we need to understand is that Brexit has not just changed the position in the UK. It is changing the position in the EU. Our vote is having an impact on others and the effect of that impact will affect how those other states respond to us. It is going to take the judgment of Solomon to steer a steady course through what is a volatile and changing situation.
London generates about 30% of our tax revenue. Alastair is a complete tit sometimes, but he's right about the importance of London. Without London, the UK becomes, overnight, Italy.
The future for this country is high value-add services. We might not like it, but there it is.
I am not sure people do like it, John.
Corbyn was quite shrewd yesterday in pointing out the mismatch in state investment that goes into London, and even in London there are vast hordes of people who benefit very little.
I do take your point, truly. However, it will take us a decade to rebalance the economy even a little. However, we must protect our national assets to the best of our ability.
We need the revenue streams from the City to enable us to build the more inclusive society it appears many of us want.
Mr. D, it's not amongst 27 countries, it's amongst the contributor nations.
No, it means that the contributors pay a bit more and the beneficiaries' get a bit less and overall it balances out not that bad for any one country. It really isn't any sort of negotiating leverage.
There will be a torrent of polls comparing the two and how voters take to the choice for PM. I simply cannot see these as being anything but terrible for Andrea Leadsom.
I was listening to a Gove supporter on Sky saying how he emphatically endorses Theresa May as the only candidate with the experience and ability to be PM and attend meetings with Merkel, Obama, and world leaders.
I expect most of Gove's supporters will do the same giving her at least two thirds support with her colleagues
I think Gove was a May plant anyway.
Knife Boris, come second with MP's, then withdraw to coronate May in exchange for No.11, that was I think Gove's plan.
It's not elitist. It is stupid and counter-productive. I suppose it's hard for stupid, self-absorbed people to realise that it's stupid and counter-productive.
OK, can understand why the media are making a big thing about her position on gay marriage (though as long as she accepts Parliament has decided and the matter is closed, I'm not sure why it should be any more damaging than Maggie personally being in favour of capitol punishment)
But why should her position on fox hunting be "controversial" given she's just stating the position of the Conservative manifesto?
Meanwhile, Leadsom has allowed the impression to be created that she was a bigger figure in the City than she was. She could have clarified all of this at any point in the last few years, but sadly she did not. In reality, she had a perfectly successful middling career in the City that needed no exagerration and of which she can be proud. But over the course of several years she allowed it to become something else in parliament and on the media. Her own assertions – even in recent days, about the scale of her management experience – made the situation worse. Such a person must not become Prime Minister.
I dislike this English politeness about saying that her CV has been "exaggerated". Let's be frank. If you claim to be Chief Investment Officer when in fact you were not; if you claim you were managing huge teams when you were not; if you claim to be a Managing Director when in fact you were a marketing director, you are not "exaggerating". There is a very simple three-letter word which describes what you are doing.
And if such a person was in my company there would be disciplinary action against someone found to have done such things.
I realise that because of my job I am pretty purist about these things. But moral compasses matter. They are too rare. If someone's default instinct is not to tell the truth but to fantasise about themselves and their achievement then that tells me something important about that person, none of it good.
Mistakes can be forgiven. We all make mistakes. But dishonesty is corrosive of trust. And trust in politicians and in the political process is badly needed at this time. The last thing we need is someone who has not shown that they can be trusted to tell an unvarnished account of themselves.
Absolutely - if I can get to a hustings I intend to ask her why she isn't considering her position as an MP.
Mr. D, it's not amongst 27 countries, it's amongst the contributor nations.
No, it means that the contributors pay a bit more and the beneficiaries' get a bit less and overall it balances out not that bad for any one country. It really isn't any sort of negotiating leverage.
EU27 nominal GDP is around €11 trillion. It's peanuts.
Leadsom has more ministerial experience than Tony Blair or David Cameron did before they became PM.
Leadsom has been in Parliament for longer than Obama was in Congress before he became leader of the free world.
What inexperience?
I don't think it's actually about ministerial inexperience per se. It's about political inexperience. Being a Cabinet minister gives you a lot of the latter so the two go hand in hand. And being LOTO gives you plenty of that.
Everything that's happening now is an inevitable consequence of the Brexit vote. If the country is fucked it's the fault of the people arguing to vote against the Prime Minister's position.
So you think they should have shown deference to their "betters" like in the old days? You really don't get the concept of Democracy, do you?
I used to, Mr Disraeli. But the concept seems to have changed a bit in recent months.
Apparently it is now acceptable to flout electoral law and grossly overspend on your campaign and then fiddle the return of expenses.
And, again apparently, it is now acceptable to tell as many bare-faced lies as you can think of in order to win more votes.
And, it seems, it is acceptable to do all this, bring the county to its knees, and then wash your hands of the whole business.
I certainly used to get the concept of democracy. But now the Tories have changed its meaning, i don`t "get it" at all. And what is more, I don`t like it.
That sounds to me not dissimilar to how the Lib Dems have always acted...
I think the Tory propaganda effort has got to you, Mr Quidder.
I've observed the Lib Dems at close range since the early 90s. I still voted for them last May, but they're no better than any of the main parties.
Leadsom has more ministerial experience than Tony Blair or David Cameron did before they became PM.
Leadsom has been in Parliament for longer than Obama was in Congress before he became leader of the free world.
What inexperience?
I don't think it's actually about ministerial inexperience per se. It's about political inexperience. Being a Cabinet minister gives you a lot of the latter so the two go hand in hand. And being LOTO gives you plenty of that.
Ideally you'd want someone who has ministerial experience and someone who has witnessed governmental failure at close quarters. That's why Thatcher knew what to do with the levers of power, whereas Blair didn't.
Mr. D, it's not amongst 27 countries, it's amongst the contributor nations.
No, it means that the contributors pay a bit more and the beneficiaries' get a bit less and overall it balances out not that bad for any one country. It really isn't any sort of negotiating leverage.
EU27 nominal GDP is around €11 trillion. It's peanuts.
Exactly, the loss of the UKs contribution to the EU budget is not some sort of mortal wound that allows us to get exactly what we want. I do imagine however that the EU will set our contribution for single market access to £350m a week...
Leadsom has more ministerial experience than Tony Blair or David Cameron did before they became PM.
Leadsom has been in Parliament for longer than Obama was in Congress before he became leader of the free world.
What inexperience?
Yebut Theresa has loads of cabinet experience. She will have sat through many briefings on many subjects. And she is more level-headed.
How many Cobra meetings has Leadsom attended and when it comes to our security what if any kowledge has Leadsom got
I don't think you need to worry about that. All new ministers, including Prime Ministers, are well briefed by all the intelligence services, while simultaneously being scared witless by some of the contents. Crisis response is something we do quite well as a country.
We have to consider events that can affect the Tory leadership election.
It's very clear that Italy is heading for a banking crash, as another episode of the eurozone crisis starts.
Italy's problem is actually very small. When we talk about 350bn of non-performing loans, we're talking about 350bn of non-performing loans that have already been recognised. The big problem in banking is loans you think are performing, that suddenly aren't. (Barings, for example.)
The issue is that at the beginning of this year, the EU implemented new rules on state aid to banks. The effect of this was to 'bail in' senior creditors, and make state aid harder.
This has meant Italian banks are suddenly struggling to fund themselves. Who wants to risk being bailed in to a bank rescue?
What is ironic is that Ireland, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands and (biggest of all) Germany all put in place state supported bad banks to sort out their banking systems. Italy is prevented from following in their footsteps.
I think - personal view, not firm - that Renzi will just say "fuck it, sue me", and will both (a) recapitalise the most troubled banks (BMPS, for example) and create a bad bank to buy NPLs from the Unicredits of this world.
Total cost a fairly modest EUR35bn or so, against the almost half a trillion in assets at the German bad bank that was needed to sort out Hypo Real and WestLB.
"Italy's problem is actually very small."
Somehow they're the cusp nation though. If Italy goes wrong then the EU breaks. Italy is going wrong too, but perhaps her people have caught the matter in time. The five-star thing is really quite interesting - ostensibly just breaking the mold, albeit the practical implications may be rather dull and boring.
Yeah, but what's the worst case? Italian banks go bust, senior creditors get bailed in, bunch of funds lose some money.
Leadsom has more ministerial experience than Tony Blair or David Cameron did before they became PM.
Leadsom has been in Parliament for longer than Obama was in Congress before he became leader of the free world.
What inexperience?
Yebut Theresa has loads of cabinet experience. She will have sat through many briefings on many subjects. And she is more level-headed.
How many Cobra meetings has Leadsom attended and when it comes to our security what if any kowledge has Leadsom got
I don't think you need to worry about that. All new ministers, including Prime Ministers, are well briefed by all the intelligence services, while simultaneously being scared witless by some of the contents. Crisis response is something we do quite well as a country.
Margaret Thatcher was said to have thought Sinai was a nasal complaint. Given she represented Finchley, that's unlikely. Sarah Palin could yet be Donald Trump's running mate.
Talking of Donald Trump, never mind that he omitted the circles from that sheriff's star. Why does he keep giving the ISIS salute? I'm surprised no nutter has honed in on that yet.
I don't see any real reason why the EU should chuck out our expats, so I don't think there's much to lose by sending out positive signals towards the EU citizens living and working here.
The problem is Spain
"Sure, we'll keep all of your pensioners in Spain. In return for Gibraltar..."
Hmm. Tourism accounts for about 11% of Spain's GDP. Spain gets almost 13 million visitors from the UK each year.
When Turkey shot down the Russian jet earlier this year, Putin told Russians not to go there on holiday. It had a HUGE effect on Turkey, which has now ( I understand) apologised to Russia.
I imagine the sudden loss of British tourists - if things escalated - would hurt Spain.
Amazing how many people have spent the last year or so making fun at the stupidity/near stupidity of non-Conservatives, only to think essentially the same actions carried out by themselves as totally sane.
Think Scotland nearly screwing their economy by leaving the Union, the Labour party's stupidity in electing a leader with minimal support and respect in the Parliamentary party...
Thinking about Boris, Gove once said that future Tory leaders will not be Old Etonians. Did Gove act to prove that? Personally as a grammar school kid I think Cameron is a credit to his country. Yes, he has made mistakes but he carries the position of PM well, not least in part because of a fine English education.
Leadsom has more ministerial experience than Tony Blair or David Cameron did before they became PM.
Leadsom has been in Parliament for longer than Obama was in Congress before he became leader of the free world.
What inexperience?
Yebut Theresa has loads of cabinet experience. She will have sat through many briefings on many subjects. And she is more level-headed.
How many Cobra meetings has Leadsom attended and when it comes to our security what if any kowledge has Leadsom got
I don't think you need to worry about that. All new ministers, including Prime Ministers, are well briefed by all the intelligence services, while simultaneously being scared witless by some of the contents. Crisis response is something we do quite well as a country.
We're not doing it all that well at the moment.
Despite all the hoop-la, it is going reasonably well, considering an already weakening economy has been kicked in the balls.
The initial shock of the unexpected Brexit vote has worn off somewhat, and there are signs that the markets are looking at other areas of the world for signs and omens.
What's happening in the real economy is hard to tell - still too many emotionally invested people doing the reportage.
@BorisJohnson: Fantastic - Conservatives will have another female PM, proving that we are the most progressive party in Britain. https://t.co/bI4ZlZw2ZQ
Leadsom has more ministerial experience than Tony Blair or David Cameron did before they became PM.
Did either of them lie on their CV?
Cameron told us he was a Eurosceptic.
Blair? 'Nuf said......
It's perfectly possible to be Eurosceptic and believe we could stay in a reformed EU.
Not after the renegotiation.
It depends on how you read the renegotiation. People differed on it. I'm going to get flamed for this, but I've never been 100% convinced the Europhobes on here (for want of a better word) were correct with their interpretation.
Perhaps I'm wrong, and I wasn't in good condition to examine the minutiae.
Margaret Thatcher was said to have thought Sinai was a nasal complaint. Given she represented Finchley, that's unlikely. Sarah Palin could yet be Donald Trump's running mate.
Talking of Donald Trump, never mind that he omitted the circles from that sheriff's star. Why does he keep giving the ISIS salute? I'm surprised no nutter has honed in on that yet.
I am in no way a Trump apologist, but that star thing has been way overdone and Trump has been stupid to be still responding to it. Solid 6-pointed stars are used in a lot of promotional materials and to most people are not a Star of David, which is two superimposed triangles:
But seriously, this is interesting from Andrea. Full on UKIPpy end to PC, kick out sharia law, get tough, proper right wing stuff.
This will APPEAL, it just will.
My inner morlock twitched with interest when I read that list.
Yeah but look at what some of the more thoughtful Republicans have been saying about Trump. The party basically tried to satiate the wealthy and at the same time please blue collar conservatives by attacking political correctness or worse. The consequence is now candidate Trump and a party they've lost control of.
Leadsom has more ministerial experience than Tony Blair or David Cameron did before they became PM.
Did either of them lie on their CV?
Cameron told us he was a Eurosceptic.
Blair? 'Nuf said......
It's perfectly possible to be Eurosceptic and believe we could stay in a reformed EU.
Not after the renegotiation.
It depends on how you read the renegotiation. People differed on it. I'm going to get flamed for this, but I've never been 100% convinced the Europhobes on here (for want of a better word) were correct with their interpretation.
Perhaps I'm wrong, and I wasn't in good condition to examine the minutiae.
Richard N. would disagree, but I don't think any agreement short of treaty change would have withstood a challenge in the ECJ.
We'll never know, but if we had voted Remain and the agreement subsequently struck down, we'd have had a political crisis almost as large as this one .
''I realise that because of my job I am pretty purist about these things. But moral compasses matter. They are too rare. If someone's default instinct is not to tell the truth but to fantasise about themselves and their achievement then that tells me something important about that person, none of it good. ''
FFS Cyclefree, get over yourself. What are you some kind of ultimate moral arbiter? don't you realise how pompous you sound?
Theresa May is a remainer painting herself as the right person to take us out of the European Union.
What's honest about that?
Cyclefree can stick up for herself. My issue is with talking about May as a 'Remainer'. We have to quickly stop this habit of labeling people in this way, as if someone who voted remain is some kind of untermensch.
The EU is not (or at least, not entirely) run by Lizard People. Our politicians aren't necessarily in thrall to the EU.
Brexit is Brexit. Who is the best, most experienced person to build a team, put any necessary vote through the House and deliver a result? Brexit itself is not the PM's full time job. That will be a departmental level responsibility.
There are many other important things that need to happen over the next four years. The country must be well run on behalf of the entire electorate. We must ensure that Labour (unless radically changed) does not get anywhere near the levers of power in 2020.
I voted Leave. I will be voting May because she has the support of the PCP, and is simply a safer pair of hands at a time when that is critically important.
An excellent post.
Can we have the 'like' button back, please?
Agreed. But still very disappointing to learn that Europe is not run by lizard people.
Leadsom has more ministerial experience than Tony Blair or David Cameron did before they became PM.
Did either of them lie on their CV?
Cameron told us he was a Eurosceptic.
Blair? 'Nuf said......
It's perfectly possible to be Eurosceptic and believe we could stay in a reformed EU.
You're confusing Eurosceptic and Europhobic.
Except once the EU failed to reform?
Crucially, that was the turning point for you, Marquee Mark, and others. Cameron came back with very little, and tried to sell it as a good deal.
People on here were saying that *before* he came back. In some cases it sounded like it was just an excuse.
Cameron could have come back with Strasbourg relocated to Birmingham, the PM made head of the EU, and billions coming in with nothing paid out, and some would still have been annoyed.
But seriously, this is interesting from Andrea. Full on UKIPpy end to PC, kick out sharia law, get tough, proper right wing stuff.
This will APPEAL, it just will.
My inner morlock twitched with interest when I read that list.
Yeah but look at what some of the more thoughtful Republicans have been saying about Trump. The party basically tried to satiate the wealthy and at the same time please blue collar conservatives by attacking political correctness or worse. The consequence is now candidate Trump and a party they've lost control of.
Their problem is they'd rather the Republicans focused on the wealthy and told blue collar voters to f*ck off.
Leadsom has more ministerial experience than Tony Blair or David Cameron did before they became PM.
Did either of them lie on their CV?
Cameron told us he was a Eurosceptic.
Blair? 'Nuf said......
It's perfectly possible to be Eurosceptic and believe we could stay in a reformed EU.
Not after the renegotiation.
It depends on how you read the renegotiation. People differed on it. I'm going to get flamed for this, but I've never been 100% convinced the Europhobes on here (for want of a better word) were correct with their interpretation.
Perhaps I'm wrong, and I wasn't in good condition to examine the minutiae.
Richard N. would disagree, but I don't think any agreement short of treaty change would have withstood a challenge in the ECJ.
We'll never know, but if we had voted Remain and the agreement subsequently struck down, we'd have had a political crisis almost as large as this one .
I think that might have depended on how close the vote was. If it had been 75-25 remain, they might have tried something like that ("because the will of the people is with the EU"). If the result had been reversed at 52-48 remain, they'd be much more wary, knowing that arsing around might p*ss us off and trigger another referendum.
Comments
I don't have a vote. And I don't think any of the parties will want to have a GE. So the future of our country is in the hands of a small group who, one hopes, will think about the best person to lead the country and not see this as some sort of "Leave" virility test.
Brexit was always a risky option. How risky - and whether it can be an opportunity to reset our relationship with the rest of the Continent onto a more viable footing and to reset the national conversation between the different parts of the UK - depends crucially on who gets chosen. What side of a campaign which has ended someone was on is the least important quality one should be looking at when deciding who to put in charge of the country at this time.
You may be sniffy about the Amazon warehouse jobs but at least they are expanding whilst banks move any job they possibly can out of the UK....
Edit to add I was in a Halifax last week watching them use 17 year old equipment because they haven't updated their systems - no need to as the branch will close soon...
Corbyn was quite shrewd yesterday in pointing out the mismatch in state investment that goes into London, and even in London there are vast hordes of people who benefit very little.
Alternatively perhaps it would be sensible for May to step down.
The bail in for DB will be utterly huge when it starts to fail. The question really is (as with Greece) how long can you kick the can along the road before the can falls apart...
Can we have the 'like' button back, please?
What we need to understand is that Brexit has not just changed the position in the UK. It is changing the position in the EU. Our vote is having an impact on others and the effect of that impact will affect how those other states respond to us. It is going to take the judgment of Solomon to steer a steady course through what is a volatile and changing situation.
We need the revenue streams from the City to enable us to build the more inclusive society it appears many of us want.
Knife Boris, come second with MP's, then withdraw to coronate May in exchange for No.11, that was I think Gove's plan.
OK, can understand why the media are making a big thing about her position on gay marriage (though as long as she accepts Parliament has decided and the matter is closed, I'm not sure why it should be any more damaging than Maggie personally being in favour of capitol punishment)
But why should her position on fox hunting be "controversial" given she's just stating the position of the Conservative manifesto?
Leadsom has been in Parliament for longer than Obama was in Congress before he became leader of the free world.
What inexperience?
Mrs May has promised me this in exchange for my support. You have been warned.
Blair? 'Nuf said......
Talking of Donald Trump, never mind that he omitted the circles from that sheriff's star. Why does he keep giving the ISIS salute? I'm surprised no nutter has honed in on that yet.
You're confusing Eurosceptic and Europhobic.
When Turkey shot down the Russian jet earlier this year, Putin told Russians not to go there on holiday. It had a HUGE effect on Turkey, which has now ( I understand) apologised to Russia.
I imagine the sudden loss of British tourists - if things escalated - would hurt Spain.
Think Scotland nearly screwing their economy by leaving the Union, the Labour party's stupidity in electing a leader with minimal support and respect in the Parliamentary party...
The initial shock of the unexpected Brexit vote has worn off somewhat, and there are signs that the markets are looking at other areas of the world for signs and omens.
What's happening in the real economy is hard to tell - still too many emotionally invested people doing the reportage.
@BorisJohnson: Fantastic - Conservatives will have another female PM, proving that we are the most progressive party in Britain. https://t.co/bI4ZlZw2ZQ
Perhaps I'm wrong, and I wasn't in good condition to examine the minutiae.
http://hydracreations.com/wp-content/uploads/wpsc/product_images/starofdavid.jpg
We'll never know, but if we had voted Remain and the agreement subsequently struck down, we'd have had a political crisis almost as large as this one
Cameron could have come back with Strasbourg relocated to Birmingham, the PM made head of the EU, and billions coming in with nothing paid out, and some would still have been annoyed.
http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/2016/07/07/86802266/
Ivanka!!!???!!
If I have it right, you can get 66/1 on PaddyPower