There was talk in the Telegraph of China being interested in a deal. Surely that would be difficult given steel prices?
One big advantage of leaving the EU is that we can protect our steel industry with tariffs if necessary. Another is that we can do a Free Trade Deal with China. Or so we are told, often by the same person.
We could have done a steel deal in the EU but Cameron vetoed it.
Ironically the exchange rate is priobably Port Talbots biggest friend atm. Chinese steel has become 10% more expensive overnight
Yes, but labour is - what - 15% of the costs of Port Talbot steel?
85% of the cost is coal and iron ore (as there is no meaningful indigenous supply of either in the UK), and they both move with Sterling.
can't believe Leadsom has secured a role in government at all - all her candidature has done for me is highlight how poor the current crop of politicos is - the left of the labour party have gone from Foot to Corbyn and the right of the tory party from Joseph to Leadsom - in the middle are massed ranks of PR-based no marks and people who think Michael Gove is clever rather than just good at sounding smart to a certain sort of tory.
as a centre right socially liberal tory I think any party member who doesn't see May as the least bad candidate in the most difficult climate at least since Suez is just too sad for words, and I will despair for our country should we have the misfortune to be lumped with Leadsom as PM
Cheer up. There's still some talent around: Rory Stewart comes to mind.
Although he's also a man who might have... errr... padded his CV somewhat.
There was talk in the Telegraph of China being interested in a deal. Surely that would be difficult given steel prices?
One big advantage of leaving the EU is that we can protect our steel industry with tariffs if necessary. Another is that we can do a Free Trade Deal with China. Or so we are told, often by the same person.
We could have done a steel deal in the EU but Cameron vetoed it.
Ironically the exchange rate is priobably Port Talbots biggest friend atm. Chinese steel has become 10% more expensive overnight
Yes, but labour is - what - 15% of the costs of Port Talbot steel?
85% of the cost is coal and iron ore (as there is no meaningful indigenous supply of either in the UK), and they both move with Sterling.
I'm sorry to say it (particularly as members of my family work there) but Port Talbot should close. It's a proto-Rover in waiting.
Look what you've done. Look what a mess you've made. Now away you go and think very carefully before voting again.
TBH, I can't quite decide what's made me happier - getting Brexit, or seeing 2.8m vote for the first time/or since the 80s.
It's such a massive vote for democracy. These voters weren't feted by the media at all - the young were endlessly and still didn't bother much.
They had the "wrong sort of vote" for most of the media, who were frantically trying to show them football to get them to stay at home
Scheduling the election during Euro2016 was so obvious. Remain screwed up in so many ways. They thought they'd be way ahead and could rely on football to crowd out any late Leave coverage too.
Scheduling the vote when tonnes of national flags are up in provincial England wasn't the smartest idea in hindsight.
The Mars bar TV adverts/packaging saying Believe was a corker. I instantly saw those charging knights on horseback, trooping the colour et al extras as synonymous with Brexit.
I've just seen it again and it's still as strong. I barely noticed it was about confectionery.
I've said it before and I will continue to do so Andrea Leadsom is toxic. Any half decent opposition worth its name would destroy her - fortunately for her we have no such opposition so she may get away with it...for now.
As a Lib Dem I hope she wins as there's plenty of ammo to use against her...not so much with Theresa May
If you can get Tim Whatshisname to generate some sort of public profile so people actually give him a hearing.
If Leadsom wins I suspect Tim will be leading a much larger troop in 2020. He may well do anyway if the Tory right continue to display their normal lack of self perception to their electability.
I guess Andrea Leadsom now needs to decide whether it is tenable for her to continue to seek to lead the Conservative party and the country with the support of only a quarter of the Conservative Parliamentary party.
can't believe Leadsom has secured a role in government at all - all her candidature has done for me is highlight how poor the current crop of politicos is - the left of the labour party have gone from Foot to Corbyn and the right of the tory party from Joseph to Leadsom - in the middle are massed ranks of PR-based no marks and people who think Michael Gove is clever rather than just good at sounding smart to a certain sort of tory. as a centre right socially liberal tory I think any party member who doesn't see May as the least bad candidate in the most difficult climate at least since Suez is just too sad for words, and I will despair for our country should we have the misfortune to be lumped with Leadsom as PM
You left out the allegations that she eats babies.
Does PM remain PM if Parliament is dissolved? I think the answer to that is yes. However if Parliament were to be dissolved before the leadership election concludes, I don't think HMQ would appoint the new leader as PM, rather you would end up with the strange situation that a GE campaign would take place with Cameron as PM while (presumably) May campaigned as leader.
You can definitely see scenarios where this Parliament doesn't make it to September. Not likely ones, but it's possible.
Does PM remain PM if Parliament is dissolved? I think the answer to that is yes. However if Parliament were to be dissolved before the leadership election concludes, I don't think HMQ would appoint the new leader as PM, rather you would end up with the strange situation that a GE campaign would take place with Cameron as PM while (presumably) May campaigned as leader.
You can definitely see scenarios where this Parliament doesn't make it to September. Not likely ones, but it's possible.
I believe so, you don't need a Parliament to have a PM.
Look what you've done. Look what a mess you've made. Now away you go and think very carefully before voting again.
TBH, I can't quite decide what's made me happier - getting Brexit, or seeing 2.8m vote for the first time/or since the 80s.
It's such a massive vote for democracy. These voters weren't feted by the media at all - the young were endlessly and still didn't bother much.
They had the "wrong sort of vote" for most of the media, who were frantically trying to show them football to get them to stay at home
Scheduling the election during Euro2016 was so obvious. Remain screwed up in so many ways. They thought they'd be way ahead and could rely on football to crowd out any late Leave coverage too.
Scheduling the vote when tonnes of national flags are up in provincial England wasn't the smartest idea in hindsight.
The Mars bar TV adverts/packaging saying Believe was a corker. I instantly saw those charging knights on horseback, trooping the colour et al extras as synonymous with Brexit.
I've just seen it again and it's still as strong. I barely noticed it was about confectionery.
I love Dan Hannan. That's exactly the right tone. (Much, much better than Farage.)
I am a Hannanite. Sounds biblical. I like it. Not sure if he's a hard Brexiter. If so, he's a heretic! Burn him!
I am a Hannanite as well. As I understand it Hannan is a free trade libertarian. I think he would mostly be quite happy with EEA, but he believes (as I do) that the borders of the United Kingdom should be under the control of the elected representatives and institutions of the British people. This is far from meaning that he thinks we should even reduce immigration, i suspect quite the opposite, just that the number of people and the conditions of entry should be decided by our parliament. Its basically the right-wing communitarian view (which I also lean towards) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communitarianism#Responsive_communitarianism_movement
84 for Leadsom? Give me a break. Are these people mad?
Wait until the members have had a say.
Hmm. For some reason that doesn't give me a comforting feeling. Who knows what mad bandwagon can be got up by early September.
I really didn't think things could get much worse for the UK. But now?
I feel distinctly ill.
That's what I mean actually, Leadsom is going to get a month to build up momentum and introduce herself to the members. Is going to be close, and the Tories are staring a Corbyn situation in the face.
All boils down to the blue-rinse nutters in the country then to decide on who presides over the destruction of our communities - could we end up with both main parties having unelectable leaders chosen by their party without the support of the majority of their MPs?
How many other countries have elected their second female leader?
Bangladesh (four now), Finland, Haiti, Lithuania, Moldova, New Zealand, Norway, Peru, Poland, Senegal, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Sao Tome and Principe.
Not unique then!
Bangladesh's 4 is actually 2. Shiekh Hasina and Khaleda Zia. They were elected twice each. Not including the last time, when the opposition boycotted the polls.
Bangladesh hasn't had a male PM since 1991 apart from 2 years of a caretaker government.
James Kirkup @jameskirkup 130 MPs who voted for Leadsom/Gove is v close to number who voted Leave. If she's PM, T May will have to work v hard to unite party.
Slightly better result for Leadsom than I expected. She reflects a strand of opinion within the party that deserves to be aired. Still expect a relativelty straightforward May win on the members ballot..
How many other countries have elected their second female leader?
Bangladesh (four now), Finland, Haiti, Lithuania, Moldova, New Zealand, Norway, Peru, Poland, Senegal, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Sao Tome and Principe.
Not unique then!
Bangladesh's 4 is actually 2. Shiekh Hasina and Khaleda Zia. They were elected twice each. Not including the last time, when the opposition boycotted the polls.
Bangladesh hasn't had a male PM since 1991 apart from 2 years of a caretaker government.
There was talk in the Telegraph of China being interested in a deal. Surely that would be difficult given steel prices?
One big advantage of leaving the EU is that we can protect our steel industry with tariffs if necessary. Another is that we can do a Free Trade Deal with China. Or so we are told, often by the same person.
We could have done a steel deal in the EU but Cameron vetoed it.
Ironically the exchange rate is priobably Port Talbots biggest friend atm. Chinese steel has become 10% more expensive overnight
Yes, but labour is - what - 15% of the costs of Port Talbot steel?
85% of the cost is coal and iron ore (as there is no meaningful indigenous supply of either in the UK), and they both move with Sterling.
cant see that cost structure myself . Add in energy, processing, overhead and transport and take in to account that scrap is priced in sterling. Id go for 60% RM.
I love Dan Hannan. That's exactly the right tone. (Much, much better than Farage.)
I am a Hannanite. Sounds biblical. I like it. Not sure if he's a hard Brexiter. If so, he's a heretic! Burn him!
I am a Hannanite as well. As I understand it Hannan is a free trade libertarian. I think he would mostly be quite happy with EEA, but he believes (as I do) that the borders of the United Kingdom should be under the control of the elected representatives and institutions of the British people. This is far from meaning that he thinks we should even reduce immigration, i suspect quite the opposite, just that the number of people and the conditions of entry should be decided by our parliament. Its basically the right-wing communitarian view (which I also lean towards) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communitarianism#Responsive_communitarianism_movement
All boils down to the blue-rinse nutters in the country then to decide on who presides over the destruction of our communities - could we end up with both main parties having unelectable leaders chosen by their party without the support of the majority of their MPs?
Yep, we really are heading into a looking glass world.
James Kirkup @jameskirkup 130 MPs who voted for Leadsom/Gove is v close to number who voted Leave. If she's PM, T May will have to work v hard to unite party.
But there were many Leavers supporting May, so the comparison isn't that simple.
All boils down to the blue-rinse nutters in the country then to decide on who presides over the destruction of our communities - could we end up with both main parties having unelectable leaders chosen by their party without the support of the majority of their MPs?
I think the last member of the blue rinse brigade died about 15 years ago.
can't believe Leadsom has secured a role in government at all - all her candidature has done for me is highlight how poor the current crop of politicos is - the left of the labour party have gone from Foot to Corbyn and the right of the tory party from Joseph to Leadsom - in the middle are massed ranks of PR-based no marks and people who think Michael Gove is clever rather than just good at sounding smart to a certain sort of tory.
as a centre right socially liberal tory I think any party member who doesn't see May as the least bad candidate in the most difficult climate at least since Suez is just too sad for words, and I will despair for our country should we have the misfortune to be lumped with Leadsom as PM
Back into the "anyone that disagrees with me is an idiot" fortress! How did that work out for you in the referendum?
I don't know if you've noticed this, but a lot of Leavers on this board - including MaxPB and myself - have the same reservations about Leadsom.
Thats a perfectly reasonable position. What I am criticising is the subsegment of opponents who work themselves into a frothy mess over every tenuous criticism.
Slightly better result for Leadsom than I expected. She reflects a strand of opinion within the party that deserves to be aired. Still expect a relativelty straightforward May win on the members ballot..
I've said it before and I will continue to do so Andrea Leadsom is toxic. Any half decent opposition worth its name would destroy her - fortunately for her we have no such opposition so she may get away with it...for now.
As a Lib Dem I hope she wins as there's plenty of ammo to use against her...not so much with Theresa May
If you can get Tim Whatshisname to generate some sort of public profile so people actually give him a hearing.
If Leadsom wins I suspect Tim will be leading a much larger troop in 2020. He may well do anyway if the Tory right continue to display their normal lack of self perception to their electability.
If centrism was a guarantee of votes or popularity we would have permanent LD majority governments.
Slightly better result for Leadsom than I expected. She reflects a strand of opinion within the party that deserves to be aired. Still expect a relativelty straightforward May win on the members ballot..
What - fucking nutters?
Are you a Leadsom mole? That sort of language only increases her chances.
Slightly better result for Leadsom than I expected. She reflects a strand of opinion within the party that deserves to be aired. Still expect a relativelty straightforward May win on the members ballot..
To be fair, given the turnover of staff at Barclays, I'd be surprised if anyone who was there at the same time as her is still there.
When I changed jobs in "later life", one firm I'd worked for had gone through so many metamorpheses since that even the personnel department had no record of my ever having worked there. Can't be uncommon, especially if a firm goes out of business.
Comments
Leadsom 84
Gove 46
Gove 46.. Leadsom 84 .. May 199
85% of the cost is coal and iron ore (as there is no meaningful indigenous supply of either in the UK), and they both move with Sterling.
Gove out
May 199
Leadsom 84
Gove 46
P (Gove dropping out) n (Someone knows he has fewest votes)
All-women shortlists eat your heart out.
Mr. 1000, if you can't say anything nice, comment on ConHome.
Germans going off the idea of open borders. Ironic since they are now probably closer to the brits.
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/fluechtlingskrise/studie-zustimmung-zur-willkommenskultur-ist-deutlich-gesunken-14328870.html
Andrea Leadsom - 84
Michael Gove - 46
When do we find out if we're having a full or truncated contest for the membership's vote?
Edited extra bit: Mr. 1000, I know
Not unique then!
Hope she stays awake.
Our "ad" dates from April:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/719927141564051456
I expect that her answer will be yes.
http://tinyurl.com/zam7zw8
Leadsom 25.5%
Gove 14.0%
Michael Gove Winner
You can definitely see scenarios where this Parliament doesn't make it to September. Not likely ones, but it's possible.
I really didn't think things could get much worse for the UK. But now?
I feel distinctly ill.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Hasina
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaleda_Zia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_Bangladesh
Bangladesh hasn't had a male PM since 1991 apart from 2 years of a caretaker government.
@jameskirkup
130 MPs who voted for Leadsom/Gove is v close to number who voted Leave. If she's PM, T May will have to work v hard to unite party.
A swing to Leave of about 5% amongst Conservative MPs.
"He that lieth down with dogs shall rise up with fleas"
Osborne and Boles etc.
May vs Bojo - now that would've been interesting!