Just wondering about the corbyn headlines of.lets do a deal. Is that let's do a deal whereby you guarantee maomentum bonkers policies are part of labour manifesto for next ge & I will walk away OR is it let's do a deal, but I'm not going anywhere?
I gather from the STimes that Momentum are moving into Unite's offices next week and are hoping to recruit another 100k+ Corbynites.
I have to give them points for effort, this is really quite remarkable stuff. And that's before we count any of the 60k who've already joined Labour last week. Reports say those are about 50/50.
Mr. Observer, if FIFA were dissolved today football would still be played. There was Europe before the EU and there will be Europe after the EU crumbles to dust.
If the continent can survive the fall of the Roman Empire it can bloody well survive losing tens of thousands of overpaid bureaucrats.
It's very simple. We need another referendum. Otherwise large numbers of people are going to cry foul.
Mrs May's first task as PM should be to organise one for November/December, and she should hold herself back from it, other than ensuring that the most ridiculous lies (Turkey) are not repeated.
Robert. What's your preferred outcome for the UK of Brexit from here ......
Robert I believe is a founding member of the "City Caucus" or as it is otherwise known "Well off libertarians with nice job/house/pension for EEA/EFTA"
Add them to the 16 million plus members of the metropolitan elite who voted Remain and you get a majority.
FFS we have to go over this every day. Then remove all the people concerned about immigration but taken in by the now discredited "project fear".
Today lots of people — me included — are suggesting there should be a second vote on this whole Europe business, but we’re told by people in suits that this is not possible. And when we ask why, they say: “Because you just can’t.”
Why not? Where in the constitution does it say we must abide by the result of a plebiscite, no matter how moronic that result might be? It doesn’t say that. It doesn’t say anything in fact because we don’t really have a constitution in Britain. So we can do what happens to be sensible at any given moment. And what is sensible now surely is to hold a vote when everyone is equipped with the most powerful tool in the box: hindsight.
Of course this would infuriate millions of idiotic north of England coffin-dodgers who are prepared to bankrupt the country simply because they don’t want to live next door to a “darkie”. Many will write angry letters full of capital letters and underlining to their local newspapers. And there will be lots of discontent in various bingo halls, but who cares? They’ll all be dead soon anyway.
Yeah yeah go back to the 1970s. Margaret Thatcher? the tories have lost their marbles. In voting Brexit, the voters are thinking outside the box. They are far more radical than the politicians who govern them. They are ready for something different. Not a Blairite in a dress.
As an aside, we all seem to be in the process of ensuring that Remain's forecasts about the UK end up being proved correct.
The longer we argue about what we want (before we even invoke Article 50), the longer the investment in the UK holiday will last.
If Gross Capital Formation drops 3% as a percent of GDP, and the savings rate ticks up 3% (neither of which are particularly aggressive forecasts), we'll have a nasty recession.
Let's have a referendum, so that - rather than us guessing what people want - we actually know. Let's have it before Christmas. And let's invoke in January.
I have said for several years the ticking timebomb is interest rates returning to historic norms of 3-5%. There are loads of people now who have no idea what that is like & thus aren't equipped to manage mortgage payments based on those levels.
When it happens (and it has to at some time, banks can't function long term lending money at 1%), whoever is holding the reigns of power is going to be in serious trouble from people screaming blue murder.
I think you've misread what was being proposed in that referendum idea - it wouldn't be Leave vs Remain again, but Leave1 vs Leave2 vs Leave 3 etc etc. So why Civil war when leave would still be the outcome?
Now, I think the idea is hugely problematic
No shit.
What happens if we pick Leave 2, and EU says "non!" ?
I am trying to get my head around the idea that any serious Tory believes Andrea Leadsom should be the leader of their party and this country's Prime Minister. That is genuinely frightening.
I'm starting to wonder if she'll make the final two.
Starting to think whether I should back the final two being May & Crabb at 7/1 and May & Fox at 25/1
I am trying to get my head around the idea that any serious Tory believes Andrea Leadsom should be the leader of their party and this country's Prime Minister. That is genuinely frightening.
Whats really frightening you @Southam, is that Andrea Leadsom might turn out to be a top notch operator, and in being so, scotches Labour hopes for a generation.
I am trying to get my head around the idea that any serious Tory believes Andrea Leadsom should be the leader of their party and this country's Prime Minister. That is genuinely frightening.
I'm starting to wonder if she'll make the final two.
Starting to think whether I should back the final two being May & Crabb at 7/1 and May & Fox at 25/1
I am trying to get my head around the idea that any serious Tory believes Andrea Leadsom should be the leader of their party and this country's Prime Minister. That is genuinely frightening.
Or maybe you are ramping for May because despite being a Tory she is likely to give you as close to being in the EU as possible whilst not actually being in it, maybe we could call it the "Turkey" position
None of the candidates is particularly outstanding. But May is clearly the most serious. If the Tories want to vote for Leadsom, so be it. If she were just Tory leader that would delight me. But she would be our face to the word and responsible for securing us the best possible Brexit deal. That bit is scary. She seems to be reeling in a few erstwhile Boris supporters on here. That says a lot.
A rather weak, equivocal reply from Leadsom as regards making public her tax return ahead of the Leadership vote, until she was bullied into answering "Yes" by a very persistent, hectoring Andrew Marr. Btw, why does Marr apparently now feel the need to wave around his good arm incessantly throughout his hour long programme, irrespective of the subject matter? It's really quite unnecessary and indeed off-putting.
Just wondering about the corbyn headlines of.lets do a deal. Is that let's do a deal whereby you guarantee maomentum bonkers policies are part of labour manifesto for next ge & I will walk away OR is it let's do a deal, but I'm not going anywhere?
I gather from the STimes that Momentum are moving into Unite's offices next week and are hoping to recruit another 100k+ Corbynites.
I have to give them points for effort, this is really quite remarkable stuff. And that's before we count any of the 60k who've already joined Labour last week. Reports say those are about 50/50.
It's trench warfare.
The SNP could be the official Opposition by end of next week.
We don't need any further referendum or election for at least three years.
Dutch, French and German elections in 2017. Article 50 served Q4 2017/Q1 2018.
Deal ready (both EU and all global ones) March 2020 at the latest. Then election.
The various EU member elections will make fascinating viewing. It's rather fortunate that the European elections here aren't due until 2019, so we'll be out before then. Imagine if they fell in 2017!
The nihilism of Brexit knows no bounds, willing on chaos, and the extreme far right in Europe to break up the continent (as well as Trump). Your vandalism has brought chaos to the UK, I doubt Europe is going to follow suit.
You are having a laugh given all the gloating you have been doing over the past week about the (brief) falls in the stock market and (temporary) falls in sterling. Your delight in your countries temporary discomfiture is a disgrace.
Have you looked at the Italian banking sector recently ?
Mr. Observer, if FIFA were dissolved today football would still be played. There was Europe before the EU and there will be Europe after the EU crumbles to dust.
If the continent can survive the fall of the Roman Empire it can bloody well survive losing tens of thousands of overpaid bureaucrats.
So only 1100 years of economic stagnation and intellectual darkness to look forward to.
What a relief, I was worried things could get bad...
It's very simple. We need another referendum. Otherwise large numbers of people are going to cry foul.
Mrs May's first task as PM should be to organise one for November/December, and she should hold herself back from it, other than ensuring that the most ridiculous lies (Turkey) are not repeated.
Robert. What's your preferred outcome for the UK of Brexit from here ......
EFTA/EEA, as I've always said.
Look, I'm completely biased. My small asset management firm (well $3bn AUM is not that small) is utterly dependent on financial passporting, as we have a lot of continental European clients. If we needed an EU presence it would be hugely expensive. Further, as I'm sure everyone knows, I have invested in a lot of tech start-ups. They're all very reliant on the fact that London is the silicon valley of Europe.
EFTA/EEA always seemed like the "have your cake and eat it" option, where we maintained access to all the best features of the the single market, while regaining our sovereignty. In addition, we'd be able to use our time in EFTA/EEA to build up trade relationships with people outside the EU, so that if we decided we wanted a looser yet relationship a decade further down the line, we could do so without triggering a very painful discontinuity.
I think people underestimate what a weak position we'd be in trade negotiations if we were to go straight for CO. The fact is that we would have approximately two years to sign as many things as possible, at a time when we're also negotiating with the EU. We have to remember that the person on the other side of the table (whether it's the EU, China, or whoever) is going to be working in their interests alone. UK financial services access to the Chinese market? Not on your nelly... The UK having to accept the judgements of US ISDS tribunals... yep.
EFTA/EEA solves all those problems. It buys us time to negotiate. (And it buys us some ready made EFTA trade deals.) And, frankly, there are plenty of ways to cut EU immigration, not least of which is to change the structure of our benefits system.
Thanks. And are you suffering from BREMORSE? Because you might not get what you want.
I am trying to get my head around the idea that any serious Tory believes Andrea Leadsom should be the leader of their party and this country's Prime Minister. That is genuinely frightening.
I'm starting to wonder if she'll make the final two.
Starting to think whether I should back the final two being May & Crabb at 7/1 and May & Fox at 25/1
She has got something of the Liz Kendell vacuity about her. She's makes lightweight appear heavy, and she presents a little bit too sneery, smug and self satisfied- not appealing.
I'm wondering now if Boris thinks he miscalculated. Surely he would have made the last two once the MP's got a good look at who he was fighting against.
I am trying to get my head around the idea that any serious Tory believes Andrea Leadsom should be the leader of their party and this country's Prime Minister. That is genuinely frightening.
I'm starting to wonder if she'll make the final two.
Starting to think whether I should back the final two being May & Crabb at 7/1 and May & Fox at 25/1
@hugorifkind: Lawson in STimes is early eg of Brexiteers slyly fleeing what they have unleashed. The vote was leave, not change. https://t.co/rlqICqtqUA
@hugorifkind: As in, if they think actually leaving would be mental, then perhaps they could have said this a month ago.
Today lots of people — me included — are suggesting there should be a second vote on this whole Europe business, but we’re told by people in suits that this is not possible. And when we ask why, they say: “Because you just can’t.”
Why not? Where in the constitution does it say we must abide by the result of a plebiscite, no matter how moronic that result might be? It doesn’t say that. It doesn’t say anything in fact because we don’t really have a constitution in Britain. So we can do what happens to be sensible at any given moment. And what is sensible now surely is to hold a vote when everyone is equipped with the most powerful tool in the box: hindsight.
Of course this would infuriate millions of idiotic north of England coffin-dodgers who are prepared to bankrupt the country simply because they don’t want to live next door to a “darkie”. Many will write angry letters full of capital letters and underlining to their local newspapers. And there will be lots of discontent in various bingo halls, but who cares? They’ll all be dead soon anyway.
I am trying to get my head around the idea that any serious Tory believes Andrea Leadsom should be the leader of their party and this country's Prime Minister. That is genuinely frightening.
I'm starting to wonder if she'll make the final two.
Starting to think whether I should back the final two being May & Crabb at 7/1 and May & Fox at 25/1
Today lots of people — me included — are suggesting there should be a second vote on this whole Europe business, but we’re told by people in suits that this is not possible. And when we ask why, they say: “Because you just can’t.”
Why not? Where in the constitution does it say we must abide by the result of a plebiscite, no matter how moronic that result might be? It doesn’t say that. It doesn’t say anything in fact because we don’t really have a constitution in Britain. So we can do what happens to be sensible at any given moment. And what is sensible now surely is to hold a vote when everyone is equipped with the most powerful tool in the box: hindsight.
Of course this would infuriate millions of idiotic north of England coffin-dodgers who are prepared to bankrupt the country simply because they don’t want to live next door to a “darkie”. Many will write angry letters full of capital letters and underlining to their local newspapers. And there will be lots of discontent in various bingo halls, but who cares? They’ll all be dead soon anyway.
May is already backsliding on immigration. Voters will apparently 'have to wait' for numbers from the EU to fall (ie a bucket of May-like excuses, and never).
As Peter Hitchens has it today, May is a Blairite manager.
If the tories elect this person, they are staring disaster in the face.
As opposed to the others?? My dream candidate is Liam Fox - the fruitiest of fruitcakes.
You seem to have an ill will towards the UK and its institutions. What's keeping you ?
You seen to have an ill will towards the EU and its institutions. What's keeping you?
The EU isn't Italy or Europe for that matter, my friend. I'd have thought that would be obvious to a Scotch Nat like yourself living in the UK.
Monica , Swindon is not Italy either, that is not the leaning tower of Pisa you see from your bedsit.
I am trying to get my head around the idea that any serious Tory believes Andrea Leadsom should be the leader of their party and this country's Prime Minister. That is genuinely frightening.
Whats really frightening you @Southam, is that Andrea Leadsom might turn out to be a top notch operator, and in being so, scotches Labour hopes for a generation.
Labour's hopes are scotched already. As a citizen of this country, I think we need a PM able to get us the best possible Brexit deal, as well as someone who can bring us together. Leadsom is not that person. She is a Burnhamweight Europhobe. It's not a happy combination.
I am trying to get my head around the idea that any serious Tory believes Andrea Leadsom should be the leader of their party and this country's Prime Minister. That is genuinely frightening.
I'm starting to wonder if she'll make the final two.
Starting to think whether I should back the final two being May & Crabb at 7/1 and May & Fox at 25/1
LOL The MoS hastily lowered its 'isn't Theresa wonderful' puff piece from top billing on the site after the top comment below was I'll never vote for May. Upvoted by thousands.
I recently heard Farage state that there was nothing in this world that could persuade him to vote for Mrs Clinton. For May, I'd go further, there's nothing in Heaven, Hell or this Earth that could persuade me to vote for May. I'd vote for Corbyn vs her. In a heartbeat.
I think you've misread what was being proposed in that referendum idea - it wouldn't be Leave vs Remain again, but Leave1 vs Leave2 vs Leave 3 etc etc. So why Civil war when leave would still be the outcome?
Now, I think the idea is hugely problematic
No shit.
What happens if we pick Leave 2, and EU says "non!" ?
AV or STV is your friend there! At least with a vote on our negotiating position beforehand we'd have a clear view of preferred pitch, and maybe it wouldn't be possible to get it and we'd go for another (imagine the chaos if the gov failed though), which at least makes more sense than getting a deal and then voting on accepting it, but the advantages are not winning out on this one I think.
Fraser Nelson, Brexit cheerleader on Leadsom this morning...
But when asked, she wouldn’t rule out giving Nigel Farage a role in renegotiation. I suspect that was a reflex answer: no comment on anyone getting any jobs. But Farage ruled himself out of respectable public debate with that disgraceful poster, rightly condemned by the Vote Leave team. I suspect that, on reflection, she will have to rule Farage out. Plenty in her party would not support any Tory who even toyed with the idea of involving Farage.
Mr. Tyson, the EU is not Europe, any more than FIFA is football.
FIFA writes the rules though and everyone has to follow them.
The Laws of the Game are maintained through the International Football Association Board, on which Fifa has 50% of the votes but which requires a 3/4 supermajority to pass changes.
May claims that she will appoint a Brexiteer to lead a dept negotiating Leave. This is a serious cop out---a ducking of the PM's responsibility. If she wants to be in command, she has to do the difficult herself. Nobody expects her to do the clerking, but the she cannot delegate the main issue of the day.
And this is her problem. If her heart is not in, the UK will finish up with a poor deal. cf DC...
Disagree. She HAS to go this route because the EU know she will not die in a ditch for Brexit. She has to appoint people who will, week in, week out, month in, month out. Then accept the deal they have negotiated.
If that view is widely held, no committed Brexiteer could vote for May.
If her pitch is that she'll leave the Brexit negotiations to others, she'll lose, and deserve to lose. There is no other big issue. of the day. It is like the one on the younger, technocratic bosses near the end of the life of British Leyland, explaining that he'd take on the role of MD, as long as he didn't have to negotiate with the Unions. It wasn't just part of the job, it was far the biggest part of the job. Detailed Brexit negotiations are an 'unduckable' part on the next PM's life.
Aside from brexit issues I think people are becoming irritated by Junkers diplomatic incompetence.
Interfering with the Scottish situation was clearly out of order for a continent that relies on UK defence and intelligence capability.
I would guess Juncker will be dispensed with once there is a new UK PM and the negotiations are going to begin in earnest. Not only has he burned all his bridges as any kind of honest broker but his political decapitation will be a nice peace gesture to all sides and sub-factions.
@hugorifkind: Lawson in STimes is early eg of Brexiteers slyly fleeing what they have unleashed. The vote was leave, not change. https://t.co/rlqICqtqUA
@hugorifkind: As in, if they think actually leaving would be mental, then perhaps they could have said this a month ago.
Is that plucky underdog and definitely not a member of the Establishment elite Lord Lawson of France? Maybe he is worrying that his current living arrangements might now be under threat.
I am trying to get my head around the idea that any serious Tory believes Andrea Leadsom should be the leader of their party and this country's Prime Minister. That is genuinely frightening.
Or maybe you are ramping for May because despite being a Tory she is likely to give you as close to being in the EU as possible whilst not actually being in it, maybe we could call it the "Turkey" position
None of the candidates is particularly outstanding. But May is clearly the most serious. If the Tories want to vote for Leadsom, so be it. If she were just Tory leader that would delight me. But she would be our face to the word and responsible for securing us the best possible Brexit deal. That bit is scary. She seems to be reeling in a few erstwhile Boris supporters on here. That says a lot.
No, its a pretty rum bunch. I am not personally that exercised about who we let in (it would be odd if I was given my personal situation) I am significantly more exercised about who we can throw out, which given FoM means effectively no one from the EU, and given Article 8 means almost no one else. Given Mrs May's illiberal credentials on mass surveillance and her general penchant for police state measures I couldn't support her.
May claims that she will appoint a Brexiteer to lead a dept negotiating Leave. This is a serious cop out---a ducking of the PM's responsibility. If she wants to be in command, she has to do the difficult herself. Nobody expects her to do the clerking, but the she cannot delegate the main issue of the day.
And this is her problem. If her heart is not in, the UK will finish up with a poor deal. cf DC...
Someone made a valid observation about her FPT - May disappears when the heat is on. That's exactly the sort of behaviour we don't want in a PM. What has she done of any note over the last six years?
I genuinely can't think of any speech or stance she's taken on anything. She's an expert in self-preservation and nothing much more.
Theresa May stuns Police Federation with vow to break its power
I am trying to get my head around the idea that any serious Tory believes Andrea Leadsom should be the leader of their party and this country's Prime Minister. That is genuinely frightening.
I'm starting to wonder if she'll make the final two.
Starting to think whether I should back the final two being May & Crabb at 7/1 and May & Fox at 25/1
She has got something of the Liz Kendell vacuity about her. She's makes lightweight appear heavy, and she presents a little bit too sneery, smug and self satisfied- not appealing.
I'm wondering now if Boris thinks he miscalculated. Surely he would have made the last two once the MP's got a good look at who he was fighting against.
I've been wondering for days why Boris didn't go for it. Some paper reports say that he feared a 'dirty campaign' in which confidences he had mentioned to Gove would be used against him. Others that he just didn't feel he had the numbers.
As an aside, we all seem to be in the process of ensuring that Remain's forecasts about the UK end up being proved correct.
The longer we argue about what we want (before we even invoke Article 50), the longer the investment in the UK holiday will last.
If Gross Capital Formation drops 3% as a percent of GDP, and the savings rate ticks up 3% (neither of which are particularly aggressive forecasts), we'll have a nasty recession.
Let's have a referendum, so that - rather than us guessing what people want - we actually know. Let's have it before Christmas. And let's invoke in January.
I have said for several years the ticking timebomb is interest rates returning to historic norms of 3-5%. There are loads of people now who have no idea what that is like & thus aren't equipped to manage mortgage payments based on those levels.
When it happens (and it has to at some time, banks can't function long term lending money at 1%), whoever is holding the reigns of power is going to be in serious trouble from people screaming blue murder.
What planet do you live on , can you show me any bank that lends at 1%. They are way way abov ethat on almost every level. Most credit crads are still 19% APR , few mortgages apart from a short fix are under 4%. The banks are making a killing. lending at high rates , paying zilch interest on funds, issue is they are taking all the proceeds for themselves in fat bonuses.
I am trying to get my head around the idea that any serious Tory believes Andrea Leadsom should be the leader of their party and this country's Prime Minister. That is genuinely frightening.
I'm starting to wonder if she'll make the final two.
Starting to think whether I should back the final two being May & Crabb at 7/1 and May & Fox at 25/1
Is there a weight lighter than featherweight?
Yes, it's called The Burnhamweight
Ha, ha :-)
Leadsom is Burnhamweight.
I think she's sub Burnham.
That loan to Barings and her past comments on the disaster Brexit would be, would make Burnham blush.
I am trying to get my head around the idea that any serious Tory believes Andrea Leadsom should be the leader of their party and this country's Prime Minister. That is genuinely frightening.
I'm starting to wonder if she'll make the final two.
Starting to think whether I should back the final two being May & Crabb at 7/1 and May & Fox at 25/1
May is already backsliding on immigration. Voters will apparently 'have to wait' for numbers from the EU to fall (ie a bucket of May-like excuses, and never).
As Peter Hitchens has it today, May is a Blairite manager.
If the tories elect this person, they are staring disaster in the face.
As opposed to the others?? My dream candidate is Liam Fox - the fruitiest of fruitcakes.
You seem to have an ill will towards the UK and its institutions. What's keeping you ?
You seen to have an ill will towards the EU and its institutions. What's keeping you?
The EU isn't Italy or Europe for that matter, my friend. I'd have thought that would be obvious to a Scotch Nat like yourself living in the UK.
Monica , Swindon is not Italy either, that is not the leaning tower of Pisa you see from your bedsit.
Today lots of people — me included — are suggesting there should be a second vote on this whole Europe business, but we’re told by people in suits that this is not possible. And when we ask why, they say: “Because you just can’t.”
Why not? Where in the constitution does it say we must abide by the result of a plebiscite, no matter how moronic that result might be? It doesn’t say that. It doesn’t say anything in fact because we don’t really have a constitution in Britain. So we can do what happens to be sensible at any given moment. And what is sensible now surely is to hold a vote when everyone is equipped with the most powerful tool in the box: hindsight.
Of course this would infuriate millions of idiotic north of England coffin-dodgers who are prepared to bankrupt the country simply because they don’t want to live next door to a “darkie”. Many will write angry letters full of capital letters and underlining to their local newspapers. And there will be lots of discontent in various bingo halls, but who cares? They’ll all be dead soon anyway.
Day 10 of Brexit malaise......... This is like Groundhog day- waking up to the nightmare of what the UK has done every morning. It is grief- because you wake up and remember what we have done, and then you get that knotted feeling. Added to the gloom is the death of Caroline Aherne, one of my own, and Italy losing on penalties, and it is a Sunday after all.
Am too blue to even have a go at Brexiters most of you here will be pleased to know.
Crawl away Tyson. No one is interested anymore. We are all getting on with our lives hopeful for the future and waiting to see what happens next. We have no time for your whining. Do yourself and everyone else a favour. Become an Italian citizen and then you can stay in the EU as it all falls apart around your ears.
I'm glad you've nominated yourself as the official hate Tyson spokesman for pbCOM. After the tirade of personal abuse I got yesterday for articulating my general opinions about Brexit, I suppose your self nomination was necessary.
Your self pity and general loathing of your country at the moment show exactly what sort of person you are. You deserve all the abuse you get.
Aside from brexit issues I think people are becoming irritated by Junkers diplomatic incompetence.
Interfering with the Scottish situation was clearly out of order for a continent that relies on UK defence and intelligence capability.
I would guess Juncker will be dispensed with once there is a new UK PM and the negotiations are going to begin in earnest. Not only has he burned all his bridges as any kind of honest broker but his political decapitation will be a nice peace gesture to all sides and sub-factions.
It was the behaviour of a childish man whose only interest was inflaming the situation. He banned everyone from talking to us, then met up personally with Sturgeon.
@faisalislam: If Leadsom is allowed to change her mind between 2013 and 2016, then presumably no probs if she/ others change it back between 2016 & 2019?
Gove is the preferred candidate of both Carswell and Hannan
So the people who have mostly loudly protested it is not about immigation and we should stay in the EEA and keep free movement are backing the one candidate who would take us out of the common market and end free movement?
Aside from brexit issues I think people are becoming irritated by Junkers diplomatic incompetence.
Interfering with the Scottish situation was clearly out of order for a continent that relies on UK defence and intelligence capability.
I would guess Juncker will be dispensed with once there is a new UK PM and the negotiations are going to begin in earnest. Not only has he burned all his bridges as any kind of honest broker but his political decapitation will be a nice peace gesture to all sides and sub-factions.
It was the behaviour of a childish man whose only interest was inflaming the situation. He banned everyone from talking to us, then met up personally with Sturgeon.
First real politician from UK that he has had to meet with.
Gove is the preferred candidate of both Carswell and Hannan
So the people who have mostly loudly protested it is not about immigation and we should stay in the EEA and keep free movement are backing the one candidate who would take us out of the common market and end free movement?
I Know. Sounds crazy. How can you prioritise Freedom of Movement and vote for Gove?
So the people who have mostly loudly protested it is not about immigation and we should stay in the EEA and keep free movement are backing the one candidate who would take us out of the common market and end free movement?
To be fair, they both seem to be in the "maximum creative destruction" camp. Destroy all the existing political structures in the hope of better new ones emerging.
Aside from brexit issues I think people are becoming irritated by Junkers diplomatic incompetence.
Interfering with the Scottish situation was clearly out of order for a continent that relies on UK defence and intelligence capability.
I would guess Juncker will be dispensed with once there is a new UK PM and the negotiations are going to begin in earnest. Not only has he burned all his bridges as any kind of honest broker but his political decapitation will be a nice peace gesture to all sides and sub-factions.
It was the behaviour of a childish man whose only interest was inflaming the situation. He banned everyone from talking to us, then met up personally with Sturgeon.
First real politician from UK that he has had to meet with.
Best paid politician in the UK as well. Worth every English pound.
The rest of the business of government must go on.
What if there is a terrorist attack? Sorry, PM too busy safeguarding the British Sausage...
Get a grip.
Quite. And anyway you can bet the other 27 EU leaders won't be devoting night and day to Brexit, so quite what the UK PM is supposed to be doing with all this time devoted to it is a mystery. The PM's job in relation to Brexit is to be kept briefed on how things are going and the political situation in other member states that could impact on any deal. Their only direct role in negotiations is to get involved when negotiation with other leaders is appropriate.
In general I think the UK should (in private) proceed on the basis post triggering article 50 that there will be no (good) deal on the table when we leave. Any deal will just be too dependent on the internal politics of any single or minority group of EU countries, and may be completely unrelated to any deal itself. The EU has no single chain of command for agreeing trade agreements. This shouldn't be any surprise - the difficulty in the EU has in these issues was one of the main argument for Leaving!
Gove is the preferred candidate of both Carswell and Hannan
So the people who have mostly loudly protested it is not about immigation and we should stay in the EEA and keep free movement are backing the one candidate who would take us out of the common market and end free movement?
The people who have argued extensively for many years that the control of immigration should be vested in the institutions of the United Kingdom support the candidate that would put control of immigration under the parliament of the UK. Not exactly a shocker.
The rest of the business of government must go on.
What if there is a terrorist attack? Sorry, PM too busy safeguarding the British Sausage...
Get a grip.
The govt has done very little over the last 12 months. It has not mattered. The less the govt does, the better. Sure, the PM's main responsibiltiy might be altered by terrorism, or even war. But if not, he should concentrate on getting Brexit right.
Gove is the preferred candidate of both Carswell and Hannan
So the people who have mostly loudly protested it is not about immigation and we should stay in the EEA and keep free movement are backing the one candidate who would take us out of the common market and end free movement?
I Know. Sounds crazy. How can you prioritise Freedom of Movement and vote for Gove?
Because they don't. Or at least not as controlled by the EU. Hannan is a communitarian, he believes the control of immigration is the business of the institutions of the UK and no one else. If we then elect a government who choses to let lots of people in, that is our business, if we dont like the result, we can then kick that government out.
The rest of the business of government must go on.
What if there is a terrorist attack? Sorry, PM too busy safeguarding the British Sausage...
Get a grip.
The govt has done very little over the last 12 months. It has not mattered. The less the govt does, the better. Sure, the PM may be overtaken by terrorism, or even war. But if he's not, he should concentrate on getting Brexit right.
The Queen's Speech was basically empty so the government has plenty of spare time!
So the people who have mostly loudly protested it is not about immigation and we should stay in the EEA and keep free movement are backing the one candidate who would take us out of the common market and end free movement?
To be fair, they both seem to be in the "maximum creative destruction" camp. Destroy all the existing political structures in the hope of better new ones emerging.
Gove. All this stuff about back stabbing is utter nonsense.
But I would take Leadsom too.
If they elect May, UKIP will be doing handsprings. She clearly intends business as usual with a rubbish deal and no real changes - she is the queen of masterly inaction.
I'm in complete agreement with this. Pity my membership of the party has lapsed.
The rest of the business of government must go on.
What if there is a terrorist attack? Sorry, PM too busy safeguarding the British Sausage...
Get a grip.
The govt has done very little over the last 12 months. It has not mattered. The less the govt does, the better. Sure, the PM may be overtaken by terrorism, or even war. But if he's not, he should concentrate on getting Brexit right.
The Queen's Speech was basically empty so the government has plenty of spare time!
The EU without the UK is a smaller market with a smaller economy and smaller gains to be had than now.
Anyone negotiating or presently paying fees for access will certainly be inclined to wonder whether there should be some adjustment. EFTA nations quickly spring to mind.
Aside from brexit issues I think people are becoming irritated by Junkers diplomatic incompetence.
Interfering with the Scottish situation was clearly out of order for a continent that relies on UK defence and intelligence capability.
I would guess Juncker will be dispensed with once there is a new UK PM and the negotiations are going to begin in earnest. Not only has he burned all his bridges as any kind of honest broker but his political decapitation will be a nice peace gesture to all sides and sub-factions.
It was the behaviour of a childish man whose only interest was inflaming the situation. He banned everyone from talking to us, then met up personally with Sturgeon.
First real politician from UK that he has had to meet with.
The Scots are very lucky to have Sturgeon. She has played an absolute blinder since the referendum result was announced.
It's very simple. We need another referendum. Otherwise large numbers of people are going to cry foul.
Of course, it should have been on the same ballot paper - Q2. In the event of a Leave win, should the UK join EEA+EFTA?
Or HMG could have made clear that Leave meant "into EEA+EFTA".
But that would have required Cameron to be sensible.
Some posters on here were asking for that as I recall, but how many top politicians (especially leavers) were asking for it before the referendum question was chosen?
How many senior leave-supporters (from Farage down) were asking for such a multipart referendum question?
I can't recall any, but my memory might be at fault.
I can imagine the howls on here and in the media from the full-outers if the government had said that that Out meant EFTA-EEA.
Mr. Lowlander, only if you think the EU is as important to the continent as the Roman Empire was, and if you discount the Eastern Roman Empire completely.
Given the Western Empire [in various political guises] existed for over a thousand years and the Eastern (using the longest dates) over two thousand, I suspect we'd survive the demise of a 20-40 year political/economic union quite well.
She said Brexit would cause a decade of economic uncertainty. And it will
Except they did. A sensible organisation could have had sensible reforms when Cameron demanded it, the EU proved itself unreformable. That was not known in 2013 and is knew.
A sensible organisation should have got through the recent economic turmoil instead of going from bad to worse. Instead the EU has ensured Europe is the slowest growing continent in the world except for Anartica.
A sensible organisation would ensure that the EU was able to make up a majority of our exports, like it used to when she said that. It isn't anymore.
A sensible organisation would be able to take a majority of our export growth. Instead 90% of our export growth is to outside the EU now.
A lot has changed in recent years and the EU has shown itself to be deeply flawed and critically much less important than it used to be for our economy.
LOL! Germans about to pull the plug on Mr Jucnker?
Good morning all. I apologise for turning up late to do battle against the forces of evil and ignorance. Leg super painful this morning, so doing stretches instead .
Apart from Leadsom being a busted flush, what's the theme of the day? Second referendum to stop the thickies taking us away from the EU's elysian fields? Compulsory EEA to suit the middle classes? Jeremy Clarkson to become El Presidente?
Aside from brexit issues I think people are becoming irritated by Junkers diplomatic incompetence.
Interfering with the Scottish situation was clearly out of order for a continent that relies on UK defence and intelligence capability.
I would guess Juncker will be dispensed with once there is a new UK PM and the negotiations are going to begin in earnest. Not only has he burned all his bridges as any kind of honest broker but his political decapitation will be a nice peace gesture to all sides and sub-factions.
It was the behaviour of a childish man whose only interest was inflaming the situation. He banned everyone from talking to us, then met up personally with Sturgeon.
First real politician from UK that he has had to meet with.
The Scots are very lucky to have Sturgeon. She has played an absolute blinder since the referendum result was announced.
The Scots, like the rest of us, voted on whether the UNITED KINGDOM should remain in or leave the European Union.
Day 10 of Brexit malaise......... This is like Groundhog day- waking up to the nightmare of what the UK has done every morning. It is grief- because you wake up and remember what we have done, and then you get that knotted feeling. Added to the gloom is the death of Caroline Aherne, one of my own, and Italy losing on penalties, and it is a Sunday after all.
Am too blue to even have a go at Brexiters most of you here will be pleased to know.
Crawl away Tyson. No one is interested anymore. We are all getting on with our lives hopeful for the future and waiting to see what happens next. We have no time for your whining. Do yourself and everyone else a favour. Become an Italian citizen and then you can stay in the EU as it all falls apart around your ears.
I'm glad you've nominated yourself as the official hate Tyson spokesman for pbCOM. After the tirade of personal abuse I got yesterday for articulating my general opinions about Brexit, I suppose your self nomination was necessary.
Your self pity and general loathing of your country at the moment show exactly what sort of person you are. You deserve all the abuse you get.
I don't loath my country- there are the 48% obviously, then the 5-10% Bremorsers with the benefit of hindsight- as Clarkson pointed out today. Then there are the substantial numbers of Brexiters who voted for a all the additional money into the NHS and will find the opposite is true, and the Brexiters who voted to give a kick to the Cameron and Osborne, and the old school, anti capitalist Bennite Brexiters, god bless them, and a large swathe of that 28% who didn't vote, many young people.
I can safely assume that the ideological, Europe hating, little England, racist Brexiters are a small minority. These are the people who loathe the UK because they revel in destruction and chaos- and are now cheering on the likes of Trump and the far right in Europe to create similar carnage there.
Aside from brexit issues I think people are becoming irritated by Junkers diplomatic incompetence.
Interfering with the Scottish situation was clearly out of order for a continent that relies on UK defence and intelligence capability.
I would guess Juncker will be dispensed with once there is a new UK PM and the negotiations are going to begin in earnest. Not only has he burned all his bridges as any kind of honest broker but his political decapitation will be a nice peace gesture to all sides and sub-factions.
It was the behaviour of a childish man whose only interest was inflaming the situation. He banned everyone from talking to us, then met up personally with Sturgeon.
First real politician from UK that he has had to meet with.
The Scots are very lucky to have Sturgeon. She has played an absolute blinder since the referendum result was announced.
Have to disagree. She's been hoisted high and mighty by her own petard. An EUnionist fraud and figure of fun.
LOL! Germans about to pull the plug on Mr Jucnker?
Good morning all. I apologise for turning up late to do battle against the forces of evil and ignorance. Leg super painful this morning, so doing stretches instead .
Apart from Leadsom being a busted flush, what's the theme of the day? Second referendum to stop the thickies taking us away from the EU's elysian fields? Compulsory EEA to suit the middle classes? Jeremy Clarkson to become El Presidente?
What incredibly dishonest statistics, he only massages the figures to work that way by including the Lib Dems as a centre-right party.
Much more honest would be to include the Lib Dems as a centrist party (they're OK with swinging both ways) which would result in a totally different conclusion.
Apart from Leadsom being a busted flush, what's the theme of the day? Second referendum to stop the thickies taking us away from the EU's elysian fields? Compulsory EEA to suit the middle classes? Jeremy Clarkson to become El Presidente?
Aside from brexit issues I think people are becoming irritated by Junkers diplomatic incompetence.
Interfering with the Scottish situation was clearly out of order for a continent that relies on UK defence and intelligence capability.
I would guess Juncker will be dispensed with once there is a new UK PM and the negotiations are going to begin in earnest. Not only has he burned all his bridges as any kind of honest broker but his political decapitation will be a nice peace gesture to all sides and sub-factions.
It was the behaviour of a childish man whose only interest was inflaming the situation. He banned everyone from talking to us, then met up personally with Sturgeon.
First real politician from UK that he has had to meet with.
The Scots are very lucky to have Sturgeon. She has played an absolute blinder since the referendum result was announced.
Have to disagree. She's been hoisted high and mighty by her own petard. An EUnionist fraud and figure of fun.
I'm beginning to look out for your posts DiCanio. They are sublimely written. Hemingwayesque in their brevity. Gutted about Italy last night. What a great game though.
If Leadsom wins and give Farage any kind of role I'll burn my membership and cancel my direct debit. There is no way I'll ever be in a party which has anything to do with an odious character like that.
Assuming that May is one of the two candidates on the Conservative leadership ballot, would Conservative members with a vote on this site vote for her, a REMAINER, or the alternative, almost certainly a LEAVER?
Today lots of people — me included — are suggesting there should be a second vote on this whole Europe business, but we’re told by people in suits that this is not possible. And when we ask why, they say: “Because you just can’t.”
Why not? Where in the constitution does it say we must abide by the result of a plebiscite, no matter how moronic that result might be? It doesn’t say that. It doesn’t say anything in fact because we don’t really have a constitution in Britain. So we can do what happens to be sensible at any given moment. And what is sensible now surely is to hold a vote when everyone is equipped with the most powerful tool in the box: hindsight.
Of course this would infuriate millions of idiotic north of England coffin-dodgers who are prepared to bankrupt the country simply because they don’t want to live next door to a “darkie”. Many will write angry letters full of capital letters and underlining to their local newspapers. And there will be lots of discontent in various bingo halls, but who cares? They’ll all be dead soon anyway.
the EU has shown itself to be deeply flawed and critically much less important than it used to be for our economy.
I agree that the EU has shown itself to be deeply flawed. However stating that it is "critically much less important than it used to be for our economy" is disingenuous. The point is not that EU membership is less important than it was. The point is that EU membership continues to be very important, as illustrated by the current instability.
I see from the Times that Bill Cash is threatening to go to the High Court if he disagrees with the outcome of the MPs ballot... should he not be encouraging others to be prepared to accept the outcome of the democratic process. After all, that seems to be the principle being cited, ad nauseum, by the Brexiteers since 24/6
Assuming that May is one of the two candidates on the Conservative leadership ballot, would Conservative members with a vote on this site vote for her, a REMAINER, or the alternative, almost certainly a LEAVER?
Remain or Leave isn't (or shouldn't be) the sole or most important criterion.
Aside from brexit issues I think people are becoming irritated by Junkers diplomatic incompetence.
Interfering with the Scottish situation was clearly out of order for a continent that relies on UK defence and intelligence capability.
I would guess Juncker will be dispensed with once there is a new UK PM and the negotiations are going to begin in earnest. Not only has he burned all his bridges as any kind of honest broker but his political decapitation will be a nice peace gesture to all sides and sub-factions.
It was the behaviour of a childish man whose only interest was inflaming the situation. He banned everyone from talking to us, then met up personally with Sturgeon.
First real politician from UK that he has had to meet with.
The Scots are very lucky to have Sturgeon. She has played an absolute blinder since the referendum result was announced.
Have to disagree. She's been hoisted high and mighty by her own petard. An EUnionist fraud and figure of fun.
I'm beginning to look out for your posts DiCanio. They are sublimely written. Hemingwayesque in their brevity. Gutted about Italy last night. What a great game though.
Italy forgot rule 1 of tournament football: never play for penalties. Especially against the Germans.
And they forgot rule 1 of penalty shootouts: No silly run ups.
Assuming that May is one of the two candidates on the Conservative leadership ballot, would Conservative members with a vote on this site vote for her, a REMAINER, or the alternative, almost certainly a LEAVER?
No May vote for me. She's been tested and found wanting.
Assuming that May is one of the two candidates on the Conservative leadership ballot, would Conservative members with a vote on this site vote for her, a REMAINER, or the alternative, almost certainly a LEAVER?
I believe it has to be May. It'll be the Tory voters holding her feet to the fire on Brexit.
Leadsom is far too Fotherington-Thomas, Gove too Martian, Crabb too God-bothery and Fox is too Fox.
"The Scots are very lucky to have Sturgeon. She has played an absolute blinder since the referendum result was announced."
Southam. I am outing you as Alex Salmond. He said exactly that at 11.10 and you repeated it but 15 minutes later. Own up you are Alex Salmond are you not?
Interesting article in the Sunday Times on trade negotiators. Matches up with what ice heard as well. Less than 100 in the employ of the government and less than 50 who specialise in EU trade law and could handle negotiating a new trade deal which wouldn't leave us with nasty surprises in the deal.
The Times article estimates that there are less than 200 people in the world qualified to negotiate for us. I would guess that many of them are currently working for the US in the TTIP, so if it is dead then we should be able to recruit them to bolster our position. I've also heard anecdotally that the EU trade negotiators are a bit of a second rate team and are prone to errors so we need to ensure we have the best people on our side.
I see Leadsom will enacted A50 immediately on becoming leader. So, another reason why she is unfit to be PM in this dangerous time. Add this one to the charge of extreme flip-flop-ism on the Burnham scale.
Aside from brexit issues I think people are becoming irritated by Junkers diplomatic incompetence.
Interfering with the Scottish situation was clearly out of order for a continent that relies on UK defence and intelligence capability.
I would guess Juncker will be dispensed with once there is a new UK PM and the negotiations are going to begin in earnest. Not only has he burned all his bridges as any kind of honest broker but his political decapitation will be a nice peace gesture to all sides and sub-factions.
It was the behaviour of a childish man whose only interest was inflaming the situation. He banned everyone from talking to us, then met up personally with Sturgeon.
First real politician from UK that he has had to meet with.
The Scots are very lucky to have Sturgeon. She has played an absolute blinder since the referendum result was announced.
Have to disagree. She's been hoisted high and mighty by her own petard. An EUnionist fraud and figure of fun.
I'm beginning to look out for your posts DiCanio. They are sublimely written. Hemingwayesque in their brevity. Gutted about Italy last night. What a great game though.
Italy forgot rule 1 of tournament football: never play for penalties. Especially against the Germans.
And they forgot rule 1 of penalty shootouts: No silly run ups.
Rule 1- slightly unfair- I just think they ran out of steam in extra time. The German defence was Italianesque.
Rule 1 Penalties- agreed- exception being Pirlo of course.
Technically, I think it was the best international game of football I have ever seen. This Italian quarter final team will return as greater heroes than the 2012 and 2000 finalist losers.
Assuming that May is one of the two candidates on the Conservative leadership ballot, would Conservative members with a vote on this site vote for her, a REMAINER, or the alternative, almost certainly a LEAVER?
I voted leave and I'm voting for May. I will put together the results from my straw poll later of members I campaigned with in the London mayoral and for Leave.
I see Leadsom will enacted A50 immediately on becoming leader. So, another reason why she is unfit to be PM in this dangerous time. Add this one to the charge of extreme flip-flop-ism on the Burnham scale.
I actually don't know how the new PM could resist the pressure to declare once they are appointed - the delay is reasonable on the grounds we need to establish what our negotiating position during article 50 will be, and each candidate will make that clear during the campaign, so it will be known based on which one wins. Given none are proposing, at present, a referendum or General Election to endorse their own chosen strategy, why would a delay be needed?
Aside from brexit issues I think people are becoming irritated by Junkers diplomatic incompetence.
Interfering with the Scottish situation was clearly out of order for a continent that relies on UK defence and intelligence capability.
I would guess Juncker will be dispensed with once there is a new UK PM and the negotiations are going to begin in earnest. Not only has he burned all his bridges as any kind of honest broker but his political decapitation will be a nice peace gesture to all sides and sub-factions.
It was the behaviour of a childish man whose only interest was inflaming the situation. He banned everyone from talking to us, then met up personally with Sturgeon.
First real politician from UK that he has had to meet with.
The Scots are very lucky to have Sturgeon. She has played an absolute blinder since the referendum result was announced.
Have to disagree. She's been hoisted high and mighty by her own petard. An EUnionist fraud and figure of fun.
I'm beginning to look out for your posts DiCanio. They are sublimely written. Hemingwayesque in their brevity. Gutted about Italy last night. What a great game though.
Italy forgot rule 1 of tournament football: never play for penalties. Especially against the Germans.
And they forgot rule 1 of penalty shootouts: No silly run ups.
High percentage of the penalty missers play in the EPL. Italy had more with the English disease. My disappointment is tempered by my aversion to any team managed by Antonio Conte.
Assuming that May is one of the two candidates on the Conservative leadership ballot, would Conservative members with a vote on this site vote for her, a REMAINER, or the alternative, almost certainly a LEAVER?
No May vote for me. She's been tested and found wanting.
Comments
I have to give them points for effort, this is really quite remarkable stuff. And that's before we count any of the 60k who've already joined Labour last week. Reports say those are about 50/50.
It's trench warfare.
If the continent can survive the fall of the Roman Empire it can bloody well survive losing tens of thousands of overpaid bureaucrats.
Lots of Brexiteers believe it
Yeah yeah go back to the 1970s. Margaret Thatcher? the tories have lost their marbles. In voting Brexit, the voters are thinking outside the box. They are far more radical than the politicians who govern them. They are ready for something different. Not a Blairite in a dress.
When it happens (and it has to at some time, banks can't function long term lending money at 1%), whoever is holding the reigns of power is going to be in serious trouble from people screaming blue murder.
What happens if we pick Leave 2, and EU says "non!" ?
Btw, why does Marr apparently now feel the need to wave around his good arm incessantly throughout his hour long programme, irrespective of the subject matter? It's really quite unnecessary and indeed off-putting.
Have you looked at the Italian banking sector recently ?
What a relief, I was worried things could get bad...
I'm wondering now if Boris thinks he miscalculated. Surely he would have made the last two once the MP's got a good look at who he was fighting against.
Leadsom is Burnhamweight.
@hugorifkind: Lawson in STimes is early eg of Brexiteers slyly fleeing what they have unleashed. The vote was leave, not change. https://t.co/rlqICqtqUA
@hugorifkind: As in, if they think actually leaving would be mental, then perhaps they could have said this a month ago.
Good day to all.
But when asked, she wouldn’t rule out giving Nigel Farage a role in renegotiation. I suspect that was a reflex answer: no comment on anyone getting any jobs. But Farage ruled himself out of respectable public debate with that disgraceful poster, rightly condemned by the Vote Leave team. I suspect that, on reflection, she will have to rule Farage out. Plenty in her party would not support any Tory who even toyed with the idea of involving Farage.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/andrea-leadsoms-scratchy-job-interview-marr-show/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Football_Association_Board
If her pitch is that she'll leave the Brexit negotiations to others, she'll lose, and deserve to lose. There is no other big issue. of the day. It is like the one on the younger, technocratic bosses near the end of the life of British Leyland, explaining that he'd take on the role of MD, as long as he didn't have to negotiate with the Unions. It wasn't just part of the job, it was far the biggest part of the job. Detailed Brexit negotiations are an 'unduckable' part on the next PM's life.
Interfering with the Scottish situation was clearly out of order for a continent that relies on UK defence and intelligence capability.
I would guess Juncker will be dispensed with once there is a new UK PM and the negotiations are going to begin in earnest. Not only has he burned all his bridges as any kind of honest broker but his political decapitation will be a nice peace gesture to all sides and sub-factions.
The banks are making a killing. lending at high rates , paying zilch interest on funds, issue is they are taking all the proceeds for themselves in fat bonuses.
The rest of the business of government must go on.
What if there is a terrorist attack? Sorry, PM too busy safeguarding the British Sausage...
Get a grip.
That loan to Barings and her past comments on the disaster Brexit would be, would make Burnham blush.
Time for me write a hatchet job thread on her
And Gove has proved his destructive capabilities.
In general I think the UK should (in private) proceed on the basis post triggering article 50 that there will be no (good) deal on the table when we leave. Any deal will just be too dependent on the internal politics of any single or minority group of EU countries, and may be completely unrelated to any deal itself. The EU has no single chain of command for agreeing trade agreements. This shouldn't be any surprise - the difficulty in the EU has in these issues was one of the main argument for Leaving!
I think I found a contender for the Sion Simon prize:
http://uk.businessinsider.com/uk-general-election-vote-statistics-how-the-left-gained-2015-5
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/brexit-2016/swiss-right-wing-urges-britain-to-join-its-immigration-fight-with-eu-kkshdrss0
Gove destroys Boris
Dinosaurs eat Man
Woman inherits the Earth!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ufekKXI9vU
Anyone negotiating or presently paying fees for access will certainly be inclined to wonder whether there should be some adjustment. EFTA nations quickly spring to mind.
How many senior leave-supporters (from Farage down) were asking for such a multipart referendum question?
I can't recall any, but my memory might be at fault.
I can imagine the howls on here and in the media from the full-outers if the government had said that that Out meant EFTA-EEA.
Given the Western Empire [in various political guises] existed for over a thousand years and the Eastern (using the longest dates) over two thousand, I suspect we'd survive the demise of a 20-40 year political/economic union quite well.
A sensible organisation should have got through the recent economic turmoil instead of going from bad to worse. Instead the EU has ensured Europe is the slowest growing continent in the world except for Anartica.
A sensible organisation would ensure that the EU was able to make up a majority of our exports, like it used to when she said that. It isn't anymore.
A sensible organisation would be able to take a majority of our export growth. Instead 90% of our export growth is to outside the EU now.
A lot has changed in recent years and the EU has shown itself to be deeply flawed and critically much less important than it used to be for our economy.
Der Spiegel on Juncker:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/eu-commission-president-juncker-under-fire-a-1098232.html
Apart from Leadsom being a busted flush, what's the theme of the day? Second referendum to stop the thickies taking us away from the EU's elysian fields? Compulsory EEA to suit the middle classes? Jeremy Clarkson to become El Presidente?
Then there are the substantial numbers of Brexiters who voted for a all the additional money into the NHS and will find the opposite is true, and the Brexiters who voted to give a kick to the Cameron and Osborne, and the old school, anti capitalist Bennite Brexiters, god bless them, and a large swathe of that 28% who didn't vote, many young people.
I can safely assume that the ideological, Europe hating, little England, racist Brexiters are a small minority. These are the people who loathe the UK because they revel in destruction and chaos- and are now cheering on the likes of Trump and the far right in Europe to create similar carnage there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_Phoenix
From her Wiki bio, it can be seen she's changed her name from her birth name. Which was:
Summer Joy Bottom
It's really, really, immature of me, but I've been laughing about this ever since.
Much more honest would be to include the Lib Dems as a centrist party (they're OK with swinging both ways) which would result in a totally different conclusion.
Gutted about Italy last night. What a great game though.
'The Scots are very lucky to have Sturgeon. She has played an absolute blinder since the referendum result was announced.'
A grandstanding trip to Brussels to have the Spanish PM tell her Spain will veto Scotland joining the EU.
Absolute blunder might be closer to reality.
And they forgot rule 1 of penalty shootouts: No silly run ups.
Leadsom is far too Fotherington-Thomas, Gove too Martian, Crabb too God-bothery and Fox is too Fox.
11:25AM
"The Scots are very lucky to have Sturgeon. She has played an absolute blinder since the referendum result was announced."
Southam. I am outing you as Alex Salmond. He said exactly that at 11.10 and you repeated it but 15 minutes later. Own up you are Alex Salmond are you not?
The Times article estimates that there are less than 200 people in the world qualified to negotiate for us. I would guess that many of them are currently working for the US in the TTIP, so if it is dead then we should be able to recruit them to bolster our position. I've also heard anecdotally that the EU trade negotiators are a bit of a second rate team and are prone to errors so we need to ensure we have the best people on our side.
ps It was on Sky and I approve of you being Alex Salmond.
Rule 1 Penalties- agreed- exception being Pirlo of course.
Technically, I think it was the best international game of football I have ever seen. This Italian quarter final team will return as greater heroes than the 2012 and 2000 finalist losers.