Looking at the front pages what a horrible bunch of people permeate the top of the Conservative Party. They need reminding that more than a year ago they were elected to govern, the PM has acted like a spoilt child, his sidekick has vanished after yet another u-turn and now senior figures are busily knifing each other front and back.
Meanwhile the country has spoken and expects the govt to act accordingly, what a useless, self serving mob they are.
Why do people keep saying 'the country has spoken'? It may have muttered a bit and indicated that it wasn't sure, really.
At the end of the leadership election the Conservatives will still have a majority of just 12. Does anyone think they're going to be a united force after recent events?
And who are the epigoni going to be?
Whoever leads the Tories has a majority over the main opposition party of 98, assuming that that party can get it’s act together. There appear to be no by-elections on the horizon, apart from one which is a Labour shoo-in.
May's comments this morning sound really weak and insipid. Not good enough.
I personally find her dull, authoritarian and old fashioned I am hoping she is going to surprise me but I fear not. Cameron and Osborne looking more impressive in retrospect already.
Yes, in happier days May was always dismissed as a long term PM prospect because of this. How she'll manage to deal with any real difficulties as PM I can't imagine and 4 weeks of her on the GE campaign trail probably won't secure the party a majority. Still it's what the Tory party voted for when they defenestrated Cameron.
I think Osborne will stay as CoE however to steady the ship in in the short term and to act as a shield for May when the economy goes south.
Looking at the front pages what a horrible bunch of people permeate the top of the Conservative Party. They need reminding that more than a year ago they were elected to govern, the PM has acted like a spoilt child, his sidekick has vanished after yet another u-turn and now senior figures are busily knifing each other front and back.
Meanwhile the country has spoken and expects the govt to act accordingly, what a useless, self serving mob they are.
Why do people keep saying 'the country has spoken'? It may have muttered a bit and indicated that it wasn't sure, really.
Oh it was sure alright, we had a vote, it counts far more than anything you'll read on social media. You can grizzle on here and twitter all day, perhaps march around London calling people racists, its too late.
I wonder of they're finally starting to think about options other than keeping Corbyn and gambling that they'll end up with a murder-suicide instead of a suicide-murder.
Looking at the front pages what a horrible bunch of people permeate the top of the Conservative Party. They need reminding that more than a year ago they were elected to govern, the PM has acted like a spoilt child, his sidekick has vanished after yet another u-turn and now senior figures are busily knifing each other front and back.
Meanwhile the country has spoken and expects the govt to act accordingly, what a useless, self serving mob they are.
To run the country you have to wear a blue or red rosette, I'm alright thanks.
May's comments this morning sound really weak and insipid. Not good enough.
I personally find her dull, authoritarian and old fashioned I am hoping she is going to surprise me but I fear not. Cameron and Osborne looking more impressive in retrospect already.
May is the Tory party reaching for the Valium in these anxious times. The Mogadon woman.
Looking at the front pages what a horrible bunch of people permeate the top of the Conservative Party. They need reminding that more than a year ago they were elected to govern, the PM has acted like a spoilt child, his sidekick has vanished after yet another u-turn and now senior figures are busily knifing each other front and back.
Meanwhile the country has spoken and expects the govt to act accordingly, what a useless, self serving mob they are.
To run the country you have to wear a blue or red rosette, I'm alright thanks.
Will Boris' heart be in it for Party Chairman though? If he still has ambitions - and he's going to need to prove Gove was wrong if so - then Party Chairman is a good place from which to do it. Although, I'd rather he was beating the drum for UK plc, moving forward with trade deals around the world as a Minister for International Trade. That could be a very solid base from which to show what he can achieve. If he can show he is good at it, it could reap great rewards for Britain. Knuckle down for a few years and still be young enough to replace May. And it would stop him moping around the House.
Much of the party faithful still love Boris and it'll be an opportunity for him not to mope and feel the love again in the next few years. The PM would then reassess down the line. In effect on probation to show his worth.
Perhaps Gove might be persauded to leave the HoC with the sinecure of Govenor General of Australia where his political talents for stabbing leadership rivals in the back is the norm.
Gove to the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster : after all he has proved that he can be trusted to be discreet in aspects of the Duke's affairs.
It would also allow him time to dream up fantasy policies - he's quite good as a backroom boy
Looking at the front pages what a horrible bunch of people permeate the top of the Conservative Party. They need reminding that more than a year ago they were elected to govern, the PM has acted like a spoilt child, his sidekick has vanished after yet another u-turn and now senior figures are busily knifing each other front and back.
Meanwhile the country has spoken and expects the govt to act accordingly, what a useless, self serving mob they are.
Why do people keep saying 'the country has spoken'? It may have muttered a bit and indicated that it wasn't sure, really.
Oh it was sure alright, we had a vote, it counts far more than anything you'll read on social media. You can grizzle on here and twitter all day, perhaps march around London calling people racists, its too late.
Who said anything about social media or London marches? Unless you are innumerate you cannot say that an advisory referendum passed by a tiny margin of 3.8% is a ringing endorsement.
Looking at the front pages what a horrible bunch of people permeate the top of the Conservative Party. They need reminding that more than a year ago they were elected to govern, the PM has acted like a spoilt child, his sidekick has vanished after yet another u-turn and now senior figures are busily knifing each other front and back.
Meanwhile the country has spoken and expects the govt to act accordingly, what a useless, self serving mob they are.
To run the country you have to wear a blue or red rosette, I'm alright thanks.
I notice you don't address my point btw.
no, I just addressed your attitude
Which makes my point nicely, you defend the indefensible.
Mr. Jessop, Cameron's a skilled short-termist. For a man who wanted us to remain in, the referendum itself and his atrocious negotiation and appalling campaign were very poor judgement.
Mr. Song, no. Clarkson's job is to be noticed and cause controversy. But he's also espousing a view many people, including some MPs, hold.
Mr. Thompson, a fair point that there was pressure on Cameron whereas Blair gleefully indulged his poor judgement of his own free will.
Looking at the front pages what a horrible bunch of people permeate the top of the Conservative Party. They need reminding that more than a year ago they were elected to govern, the PM has acted like a spoilt child, his sidekick has vanished after yet another u-turn and now senior figures are busily knifing each other front and back.
Meanwhile the country has spoken and expects the govt to act accordingly, what a useless, self serving mob they are.
To run the country you have to wear a blue or red rosette, I'm alright thanks.
I notice you don't address my point btw.
no, I just addressed your attitude
Which makes my point nicely, you defend the indefensible.
No it doesn't, it highlights your views and the way you think.
Looking at the front pages what a horrible bunch of people permeate the top of the Conservative Party. They need reminding that more than a year ago they were elected to govern, the PM has acted like a spoilt child, his sidekick has vanished after yet another u-turn and now senior figures are busily knifing each other front and back.
Meanwhile the country has spoken and expects the govt to act accordingly, what a useless, self serving mob they are.
Why do people keep saying 'the country has spoken'? It may have muttered a bit and indicated that it wasn't sure, really.
Oh it was sure alright, we had a vote, it counts far more than anything you'll read on social media. You can grizzle on here and twitter all day, perhaps march around London calling people racists, its too late.
Who said anything about social media or London marches? Unless you are innumerate you cannot say that an advisory referendum passed by a tiny margin of 3.8% is a ringing endorsement.
Where did I say it was a ringing endorsement?
You need to man up, accept that a majority spoke and that your beloved had two fingers stuck up at them. Until you do you'll carry on whining like a spoilt child, grow up ffs and address the issues, ask yourself how and why it happened.
Mr. Jessop, Cameron's a skilled short-termist. For a man who wanted us to remain in, the referendum itself and his atrocious negotiation and appalling campaign were very poor judgement.
Mr. Song, no. Clarkson's job is to be noticed and cause controversy. But he's also espousing a view many people, including some MPs, hold.
Mr. Thompson, a fair point that there was pressure on Cameron whereas Blair gleefully indulged his poor judgement of his own free will.
The other factor -- which may be why some Conservatives are pressing for a coronation, is how many votes the losing leadership candidates attract. It is not just Leave and Remain that must be considered when balancing the different wings of the party in Cabinet.
As an aside, do we know (or is there betting on) when David Cameron will leave the Commons? Tony Blair left the House immediately on handing over to Gordon Brown.
Next election I'd imagine. Unless there's a big international job in a few years but I expect he will wait it out.
On the other hand, it must be frustrating to be a backbencher after being PM.
It's actually quite a nice role. You get an office in central London, a platform to speak from and the Whips have no power over you so you can do what you like (in practice you usually end up paired) so no late nights.
F1: bugger. It appears to be raining in Spielberg. Hope it isn't later on as a safety car start would not necessarily enhance the odds on Hamilton losing the lead off the start line.
Looking at the front pages what a horrible bunch of people permeate the top of the Conservative Party. They need reminding that more than a year ago they were elected to govern, the PM has acted like a spoilt child, his sidekick has vanished after yet another u-turn and now senior figures are busily knifing each other front and back.
Meanwhile the country has spoken and expects the govt to act accordingly, what a useless, self serving mob they are.
To run the country you have to wear a blue or red rosette, I'm alright thanks.
I notice you don't address my point btw.
no, I just addressed your attitude
Which makes my point nicely, you defend the indefensible.
No it doesn't, it highlights your views and the way you think.
I'll tell you how I think for clarification:
For years I've campaigned to leave the EU, I'm delighted. I'm even more delighted to see the tories exposed as what I've been saying for years and tickled by the infantile response of Remainers such as yourself.
Sorry if you have a problem with that attitude, I'll introduce you to plenty who feel exactly the same.
On topic, I can't add much to TSE's comments, which seem entirely sound.
The price for Theresa May is probably worth keeping an eye on in relation to her price for the leadership. If she doesn't win then she'll still almost certainly have a very substantial share of the party vote and a large plurality - quite probably a majority - of the parliamentary party behind her. Unless she chose to take her bat home, which I'd very much doubt, then I reckon that there'd be about a 60% chance of her moving to No 11. There are arguments both ways and a new leader might have his or her own supporters to reward but keeping such a powerful individual out of the Number Two slot would be a risky move, all the more so if it's someone without much experience at the top themself. Sure, May would be a ready-made replacement but then she'd still be that if she stayed at the Home Office or went to the backbenches.
May is already backsliding on immigration. Voters will apparently 'have to wait' for numbers from the EU to fall (ie a bucket of May-like excuses, and never).
As Peter Hitchens has it today, May is a Blairite manager.
If the tories elect this person, they are staring disaster in the face.
Today lots of people — me included — are suggesting there should be a second vote on this whole Europe business, but we’re told by people in suits that this is not possible. And when we ask why, they say: “Because you just can’t.”
Why not? Where in the constitution does it say we must abide by the result of a plebiscite, no matter how moronic that result might be? It doesn’t say that. It doesn’t say anything in fact because we don’t really have a constitution in Britain. So we can do what happens to be sensible at any given moment. And what is sensible now surely is to hold a vote when everyone is equipped with the most powerful tool in the box: hindsight.
Of course this would infuriate millions of idiotic north of England coffin-dodgers who are prepared to bankrupt the country simply because they don’t want to live next door to a “darkie”. Many will write angry letters full of capital letters and underlining to their local newspapers. And there will be lots of discontent in various bingo halls, but who cares? They’ll all be dead soon anyway.
Combative but technically correct I suppose - it woukd be legal to hold another referendum but would cause mass upset (albeit not just among the people he lists!)
I actually think we're even less likely to step back from this if a remainer Tory wins - I think it highly improbable regardless, but if a leaver got a new offer from Europe which justified asking people again - hypothesis only, no offer is coming - the leavers might split between those who felt we didn't get enough before and the die hards, and they might be able to step back. If it's a remainer, they'd be ousted before they could try, because even less people than the other example would trust their new offer, it'd be assumed they planned it all along.
Looking at the front pages what a horrible bunch of people permeate the top of the Conservative Party. They need reminding that more than a year ago they were elected to govern, the PM has acted like a spoilt child, his sidekick has vanished after yet another u-turn and now senior figures are busily knifing each other front and back.
Meanwhile the country has spoken and expects the govt to act accordingly, what a useless, self serving mob they are.
Why do people keep saying 'the country has spoken'? It may have muttered a bit and indicated that it wasn't sure, really.
Oh it was sure alright, we had a vote, it counts far more than anything you'll read on social media. You can grizzle on here and twitter all day, perhaps march around London calling people racists, its too late.
Who said anything about social media or London marches? Unless you are innumerate you cannot say that an advisory referendum passed by a tiny margin of 3.8% is a ringing endorsement.
Where did I say it was a ringing endorsement?
You need to man up, accept that a majority spoke and that your beloved had two fingers stuck up at them. Until you do you'll carry on whining like a spoilt child, grow up ffs and address the issues, ask yourself how and why it happened.
You said, and I quote, "the country has spoken and expects the govt to act accordingly". The FACTS are that REMAIN won what was only an advisory referendum very narrowly (less than 52:48). You're getting much too emotional about having these facts pointed out to you and are starting to swear, please try to calm down.
At the end of the leadership election the Conservatives will still have a majority of just 12. Does anyone think they're going to be a united force after recent events?
Looking at the front pages what a horrible bunch of people permeate the top of the Conservative Party. They need reminding that more than a year ago they were elected to govern, the PM has acted like a spoilt child, his sidekick has vanished after yet another u-turn and now senior figures are busily knifing each other front and back.
Meanwhile the country has spoken and expects the govt to act accordingly, what a useless, self serving mob they are.
Why do people keep saying 'the country has spoken'? It may have muttered a bit and indicated that it wasn't sure, really.
Oh it was sure alright, we had a vote, it counts far more than anything you'll read on social media. You can grizzle on here and twitter all day, perhaps march around London calling people racists, its too late.
Who said anything about social media or London marches? Unless you are innumerate you cannot say that an advisory referendum passed by a tiny margin of 3.8% is a ringing endorsement.
Where did I say it was a ringing endorsement?
You need to man up, accept that a majority spoke and that your beloved had two fingers stuck up at them. Until you do you'll carry on whining like a spoilt child, grow up ffs and address the issues, ask yourself how and why it happened.
You said, and I quote, "the country has spoken and expects the govt to act accordingly". The FACTS are that REMAIN won what was only an advisory referendum very narrowly (less than 52:48). You're getting much too emotional about having these facts pointed out to you and are starting to swear, please try to calm down.
F1: bugger. It appears to be raining in Spielberg. Hope it isn't later on as a safety car start would not necessarily enhance the odds on Hamilton losing the lead off the start line.
Looking at the front pages what a horrible bunch of people permeate the top of the Conservative Party. They need reminding that more than a year ago they were elected to govern, the PM has acted like a spoilt child, his sidekick has vanished after yet another u-turn and now senior figures are busily knifing each other front and back.
Meanwhile the country has spoken and expects the govt to act accordingly, what a useless, self serving mob they are.
The PM would always have been forced to step down if he lost he has no authority left, and as we've seen plenty are saying only a leaver can run things now, it would be much worse if Cameron were staying. He has stayed on ubtil a successor is chosen, what more could he do?
Chris Grayling is an idiot. A perfectly amiable and polite idiot but an idiot nonetheless. The idea of him as Chancellor has done nothing for my Sunday morning.
Yes - CoE would be WAY above his competence level........but 12/1 is good value.
Agree with TSE - Gove & Leadsom to 'Ministry of Brexit' - where they can get on with delivering LEAVE's contradictory and mutually exclusive promises......
Gove. All this stuff about back stabbing is utter nonsense.
But I would take Leadsom too.
If they elect May, UKIP will be doing handsprings. She clearly intends business as usual with a rubbish deal and no real changes - she is the queen of masterly inaction.
Mr. L, quite, although worth recalling Cameron's a strategic idiot almost on a par with Blair (the unnecessary EU referendum he never wanted versus meddling with the UK's constitution to 'kill Scottish nationalism stone dead').
I have to disagree about that. The referendum wasn't unnecessary, he did everything he could to avoid it, but the clamour for it became too much, he would have struggled immensely if one was not offered.
Mr. Song, not sure the approach of Clarkson or Geldof (who on the news last night was filmed saying "This is a democracy" whilst arguing we ignore a democratic vote) will necessarily heal divides.
There's a subset of people who always speak on behalf of the people even though the people never seem to elect people who know what is best for the people.
Gove. All this stuff about back stabbing is utter nonsense.
But I would take Leadsom too.
If they elect May, UKIP will be doing handsprings. She clearly intends business as usual with a rubbish deal and no real changes - she is the queen of masterly inaction.
On topic, I can't add much to TSE's comments, which seem entirely sound.
The price for Theresa May is probably worth keeping an eye on in relation to her price for the leadership. If she doesn't win then she'll still almost certainly have a very substantial share of the party vote and a large plurality - quite probably a majority - of the parliamentary party behind her. Unless she chose to take her bat home, which I'd very much doubt, then I reckon that there'd be about a 60% chance of her moving to No 11. There are arguments both ways and a new leader might have his or her own supporters to reward but keeping such a powerful individual out of the Number Two slot would be a risky move, all the more so if it's someone without much experience at the top themself. Sure, May would be a ready-made replacement but then she'd still be that if she stayed at the Home Office or went to the backbenches.
Not so sure. We all (I think) agree that May is odds-on. For that to change, she'll need to drop some hideous clanger. Having dropped it, will she then be a natural candidate for CoE?
Mr. L, quite, although worth recalling Cameron's a strategic idiot almost on a par with Blair (the unnecessary EU referendum he never wanted versus meddling with the UK's constitution to 'kill Scottish nationalism stone dead').
I have to disagree about that. The referendum wasn't unnecessary, he did everything he could to avoid it, but the clamour for it became too much, he would have struggled immensely if one was not offered.
But Cameron encouraged the clamour for the referendum by not stamping on it. Blairs “mistake” was to get involved in Iraq when there absolutely no need for it. We may well, of course, learn a bit more about that soon.
Mr. Song, not sure the approach of Clarkson or Geldof (who on the news last night was filmed saying "This is a democracy" whilst arguing we ignore a democratic vote) will necessarily heal divides.
There's a subset of people who always speak on behalf of the people even though the people never seem to elect people who know what is best for the people.
True fact.
More seriously, it's one thing to argue a second referendum is a good idea - all the well listed problems aside which mean it won't happen aside, it would at least still be seeking democratic endorsement again - it's another to insist on being democratic while seeking to ignore democracy. At least Lammy was being technically correct in that as we are a representative democracy and referenda are not binding, the MPs don't have to listen. It woukd be a very inflammatory thing to attempt and no ones donating their seat for that, but at least it doesn't claim popular democratic will as a defence.
Remarkably, Theresa May is more popular than Michael Gove among both Remain voters and Leave voters. 64% of Leave voters have a favourable opinion of Theresa May, compared to 51% who view Michael Gove favourably. Among Remain voters there is no contest: Only 5% of people who voted to Remain have a favourable view of Gove, while 49% of Remain voters like Theresa May.
Today lots of people — me included — are suggesting there should be a second vote on this whole Europe business, but we’re told by people in suits that this is not possible. And when we ask why, they say: “Because you just can’t.”
Why not? Where in the constitution does it say we must abide by the result of a plebiscite, no matter how moronic that result might be? It doesn’t say that. It doesn’t say anything in fact because we don’t really have a constitution in Britain. So we can do what happens to be sensible at any given moment. And what is sensible now surely is to hold a vote when everyone is equipped with the most powerful tool in the box: hindsight.
Of course this would infuriate millions of idiotic north of England coffin-dodgers who are prepared to bankrupt the country simply because they don’t want to live next door to a “darkie”. Many will write angry letters full of capital letters and underlining to their local newspapers. And there will be lots of discontent in various bingo halls, but who cares? They’ll all be dead soon anyway.
F1: bugger. It appears to be raining in Spielberg. Hope it isn't later on as a safety car start would not necessarily enhance the odds on Hamilton losing the lead off the start line.
King Cole, which bit?
The GP2 race is about to start, will be behind the safety car. Sorry to say that the rain is still falling.
Edit: It's properly wet, they can't see anything and the SC is staying out for a few laps.
May is already backsliding on immigration. Voters will apparently 'have to wait' for numbers from the EU to fall (ie a bucket of May-like excuses, and never).
As Peter Hitchens has it today, May is a Blairite manager.
If the tories elect this person, they are staring disaster in the face.
As opposed to the others?? My dream candidate is Liam Fox - the fruitiest of fruitcakes.
On topic, I can't add much to TSE's comments, which seem entirely sound.
The price for Theresa May is probably worth keeping an eye on in relation to her price for the leadership. If she doesn't win then she'll still almost certainly have a very substantial share of the party vote and a large plurality - quite probably a majority - of the parliamentary party behind her. Unless she chose to take her bat home, which I'd very much doubt, then I reckon that there'd be about a 60% chance of her moving to No 11. There are arguments both ways and a new leader might have his or her own supporters to reward but keeping such a powerful individual out of the Number Two slot would be a risky move, all the more so if it's someone without much experience at the top themself. Sure, May would be a ready-made replacement but then she'd still be that if she stayed at the Home Office or went to the backbenches.
Not so sure. We all (I think) agree that May is odds-on. For that to change, she'll need to drop some hideous clanger. Having dropped it, will she then be a natural candidate for CoE?
The risk is that the membership do something stupid. I don't think they will but I have seen and heard anecdotal data that suggests a clear determination from some to support a Brexiter - but then these are people I'd have always had down as not being particularly pragmatic on issues such as competence, experience and temperament (if I was being unkind, I'd say they have difficulty in recognizing them in others as they lack them themselves). If there is a clear MPs/membership split then the new leader will have to take the MPs views into account: both theory and history show that the Tories have a well-oiled leader ejection system.
May may be popular with the Blairites in the parliamentary party, but that won't be the case in the country
There will be an explosion of fury out there in six months when precisely nothing changes,as it hasn;t during May's six year tenure as Home Secretary, when as David Mellor said she ducked every major issue and turned into McCavity when things went wrong.
She is the opposite of what voters want, as the conservatives will very quickly discover to their enormous cost.
Sadly the mentioned video doesn't seem to be included/linked, but there's a pretty cool article here about growing drones: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36694899
May is already backsliding on immigration. Voters will apparently 'have to wait' for numbers from the EU to fall (ie a bucket of May-like excuses, and never).
As Peter Hitchens has it today, May is a Blairite manager.
If the tories elect this person, they are staring disaster in the face.
Leaving is a process, one we arenow committed to. I'd rather have minor change for the transition, as it will less disruptive to the country. If that doesn't go far enough for other leavers the can always continue the process by winning an election, presuming both that may wins and is indeed going for a fudge. The biggest danger from the first option is angry die hards causing trouble in parliament and UKIP having their new cause, both of which are partisan problems I as a non Tory don't care about.
Of course this would infuriate millions of idiotic north of England coffin-dodgers who are prepared to bankrupt the country simply because they don’t want to live next door to a “darkie”. Many will write angry letters full of capital letters and underlining to their local newspapers. And there will be lots of discontent in various bingo halls, but who cares? They’ll all be dead soon anyway.
May is already backsliding on immigration. Voters will apparently 'have to wait' for numbers from the EU to fall (ie a bucket of May-like excuses, and never).
As Peter Hitchens has it today, May is a Blairite manager.
If the tories elect this person, they are staring disaster in the face.
As opposed to the others?? My dream candidate is Liam Fox - the fruitiest of fruitcakes.
Looking at the front pages what a horrible bunch of people permeate the top of the Conservative Party. They need reminding that more than a year ago they were elected to govern, the PM has acted like a spoilt child, his sidekick has vanished after yet another u-turn and now senior figures are busily knifing each other front and back.
Meanwhile the country has spoken and expects the govt to act accordingly, what a useless, self serving mob they are.
Why do people keep saying 'the country has spoken'? It may have muttered a bit and indicated that it wasn't sure, really.
It spoke clearly that it was divided but that as things stand the majority want out. What is less clear is what future options everyone, leavers and remainers, thinks is now best (ignoring the small groups trying to reverse the result)
As i understand it Ms May is going to appoint a Brexiteer to oversee the cabinet office in the transformation of the relationship towards Brexit.This is a key appointment which could be suited to Grayling which makes me luke-warm about the suggested advice.I think the key feature of the May appeal is basic competence in government,security rather than risk,and reassurance.Hammond would fit the bill for Chancellor.He could bore for England and save the NHS £millions as an alternative sleep treatment.In this case,boring might be just what we need.I must also comment how encouraging it is to have a woman PM again.With Hillary in the USA,Labour and the Lib Dems really need to take note.People are making the wise decision to put the power in the hands of women.
The other factor -- which may be why some Conservatives are pressing for a coronation, is how many votes the losing leadership candidates attract. It is not just Leave and Remain that must be considered when balancing the different wings of the party in Cabinet.
As an aside, do we know (or is there betting on) when David Cameron will leave the Commons? Tony Blair left the House immediately on handing over to Gordon Brown.
Next election I'd imagine. Unless there's a big international job in a few years but I expect he will wait it out.
On the other hand, it must be frustrating to be a backbencher after being PM.
It's actually quite a nice role. You get an office in central London, a platform to speak from and the Whips have no power over you so you can do what you like (in practice you usually end up paired) so no late nights.
Plus, so long as you're not Gordon Brown, you get paid large sums for being the headline speaker at various business events.
The other factor -- which may be why some Conservatives are pressing for a coronation, is how many votes the losing leadership candidates attract. It is not just Leave and Remain that must be considered when balancing the different wings of the party in Cabinet.
As an aside, do we know (or is there betting on) when David Cameron will leave the Commons? Tony Blair left the House immediately on handing over to Gordon Brown.
Next election I'd imagine. Unless there's a big international job in a few years but I expect he will wait it out.
On the other hand, it must be frustrating to be a backbencher after being PM.
It's actually quite a nice role. You get an office in central London, a platform to speak from and the Whips have no power over you so you can do what you like (in practice you usually end up paired) so no late nights.
But you actually are expected to do more work with the small folk as well! Ugh.
May is already backsliding on immigration. Voters will apparently 'have to wait' for numbers from the EU to fall (ie a bucket of May-like excuses, and never).
As Peter Hitchens has it today, May is a Blairite manager.
If the tories elect this person, they are staring disaster in the face.
As opposed to the others?? My dream candidate is Liam Fox - the fruitiest of fruitcakes.
You seem to have an ill will towards the UK and its institutions. What's keeping you ?
May is already backsliding on immigration. Voters will apparently 'have to wait' for numbers from the EU to fall (ie a bucket of May-like excuses, and never).
As Peter Hitchens has it today, May is a Blairite manager.
If the tories elect this person, they are staring disaster in the face.
Leaving is a process, one we arenow committed to. I'd rather have minor change for the transition, as it will less disruptive to the country. If that doesn't go far enough for other leavers the can always continue the process by winning an election, presuming both that may wins and is indeed going for a fudge. The biggest danger from the first option is angry die hards causing trouble in parliament and UKIP having their new cause, both of which are partisan problems I as a non Tory don't care about.
Agree - and as the polling shows REMAINER May has a better image among the well known candidates with LEAVE voters than LEAVEr Gove.
Of course among REMAIN voters May slaughters Gove:
Net Favourable: May: +16 Gove: -84
The voters aren't as hung up on the personalities as our LEAVErs....
On topic, I can't add much to TSE's comments, which seem entirely sound.
The price for Theresa May is probably worth keeping an eye on in relation to her price for the leadership. If she doesn't win then she'll still almost certainly have a very substantial share of the party vote and a large plurality - quite probably a majority - of the parliamentary party behind her. Unless she chose to take her bat home, which I'd very much doubt, then I reckon that there'd be about a 60% chance of her moving to No 11. There are arguments both ways and a new leader might have his or her own supporters to reward but keeping such a powerful individual out of the Number Two slot would be a risky move, all the more so if it's someone without much experience at the top themself. Sure, May would be a ready-made replacement but then she'd still be that if she stayed at the Home Office or went to the backbenches.
Not so sure. We all (I think) agree that May is odds-on. For that to change, she'll need to drop some hideous clanger. Having dropped it, will she then be a natural candidate for CoE?
The risk is that the membership do something stupid. I don't think they will but I have seen and heard anecdotal data that suggests a clear determination from some to support a Brexiter - but then these are people I'd have always had down as not being particularly pragmatic on issues such as competence, experience and temperament (if I was being unkind, I'd say they have difficulty in recognizing them in others as they lack them themselves). If there is a clear MPs/membership split then the new leader will have to take the MPs views into account: both theory and history show that the Tories have a well-oiled leader ejection system.
But once elected by the members, she/he would be reasonably safe. The EEA route along with FoM will be saleable to the MPs since most are Remainers anyway.
Looks like we will be very little different outside compared to what we were inside. Pure Brexiters can jump into the Channel.
Listening to Andrea Leadson on Marr, I genuinely believe she is useless.
Due to her content or delivery? I'm reserving judgement in her because the one performance I saw her give she was functional but underwhelming. Which is fine, but i do t see where the fervour of some of her supporters is coming from. Reminds me a bit of Corbyn - he has a good voice and a sort of quiet dignity, in a way, but the things he says and said during his leadership campaign were utterly standard at best, but people went nuts tor it.
Listening to Andrea Leadson on Marr, I genuinely believe she is useless.
Her question on tax returns was a Hacker 'no, alright, yes' moment. Didn't it occur to her she might be asked it and have her answer ready? Clear sign of inexperience.
Len McCluskey sounding as mad as that loathsome Rachel 'lots of people support Corbyn' Shami.
Sadly the mentioned video doesn't seem to be included/linked, but there's a pretty cool article here about growing drones: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36694899
Marr just forced a reluctant Andrea Leadsom to publish her tax return before the votes. Interesting
As a Minister there shouldn't be anything too interesting in the Register of Interests or it would have been spotted by now. Anything offshore by definition won't be on her tax return.
May may be popular with the Blairites in the parliamentary party, but that won't be the case in the country
There will be an explosion of fury out there in six months when precisely nothing changes,as it hasn;t during May's six year tenure as Home Secretary, when as David Mellor said she ducked every major issue and turned into McCavity when things went wrong.
She is the opposite of what voters want, as the conservatives will very quickly discover to their enormous cost.
And Corbyn is what the voters want .. really really want.
Marr just forced a reluctant Andrea Leadsom to publish her tax return before the votes. Interesting
As a Minister there shouldn't be anything too interesting in the Register of Interests or it would have been spotted by now. Anything offshore by definition won't be on her tax return.
The tax problem for her is a) her husbands tax return and b) her brother-in-laws financial activities, and support for her. Or am I wrong?
1) Not denying she would involve Farage in the Brexit negotiations
2) Is she's going to publish her tax returns?
And her previous resounding support for the EU that is available on tape. I was hoping she would do better than she did, as she could make COE with her financial experience, but I think she is too light weight
1) Not denying she would involve Farage in the Brexit negotiations
2) Is she's going to publish her tax returns?
And she is the only plausible Leaver left given Fox is not plausible and people have finally seen through Gove.
Which is why I am convinced the runoff will be Crabb vs May. Neither are inspired but both of them are at least able to pretend competence.
McCluskey's 'there's no falling away of Labour support' is the most implausible and unconvincing political lie since Eden denied collaborating with the French and Israelis over Suez.
Marr just forced a reluctant Andrea Leadsom to publish her tax return before the votes. Interesting
As a Minister there shouldn't be anything too interesting in the Register of Interests or it would have been spotted by now. Anything offshore by definition won't be on her tax return.
May may be popular with the Blairites in the parliamentary party, but that won't be the case in the country
There will be an explosion of fury out there in six months when precisely nothing changes,as it hasn;t during May's six year tenure as Home Secretary, when as David Mellor said she ducked every major issue and turned into McCavity when things went wrong.
She is the opposite of what voters want, as the conservatives will very quickly discover to their enormous cost.
And Corbyn is what the voters want .. really really want.
No... But if the referendum result is essentially ignored by Mrs May chances are both Labour and Tories will collapse across the country in 2020.... And Farage will be the beneficiary.
The voters have put the political class on notice. What the politicians do next is up to them but the voters are watching and waiting...
Marr just forced a reluctant Andrea Leadsom to publish her tax return before the votes. Interesting
As a Minister there shouldn't be anything too interesting in the Register of Interests or it would have been spotted by now. Anything offshore by definition won't be on her tax return.
Agreed but why was she so evasive
Maybe she doesn't think politicians should have to publish tax returns, but knows it 'looks' bad if when asked they say no, so stumbled a bit in reply.
Marr just forced a reluctant Andrea Leadsom to publish her tax return before the votes. Interesting
As a Minister there shouldn't be anything too interesting in the Register of Interests or it would have been spotted by now. Anything offshore by definition won't be on her tax return.
The problem for her is a) her husbands tax return and b) her brother-in-laws financial activities, and support for her.
Neither of which will come up in her tax return. To have not thought through these things in advance of running would be a big banana skin though, game over if her tax return doesn't match the Register of Interests.
The Lead in Leadsom rhymes with the soft dull metal for a reason.
A valuable workhorse metal that keeps the rain off but is not by any stretch of the imagination useful for display and is never used for decoration or jewellery.
I'm think that PM May will swap Hammond and Osborne and put Grayling into the Home Office that she vacates.
Leadsom becomes SoS BREXIT. Crabb stays in place. Fox remains on the backbenches and is joined by Brutus. Boris to Party Chairman. SOS for Scotland, Wales and NI to be combined as SOS Devolved Admins and net +1 Cabinet new dept spot.
Three cabinet vacancies at Energy, Justice and Leader of the House with others possible from any Cabinet ministers retiring or sacked.
They will not need to worry about SOS for Scotland for much longer.
I'm think that PM May will swap Hammond and Osborne and put Grayling into the Home Office that she vacates.
Leadsom becomes SoS BREXIT. Crabb stays in place. Fox remains on the backbenches and is joined by Brutus. Boris to Party Chairman. SOS for Scotland, Wales and NI to be combined as SOS Devolved Admins and net +1 Cabinet new dept spot.
Three cabinet vacancies at Energy, Justice and Leader of the House with others possible from any Cabinet ministers retiring or sacked.
They will not need to worry about SOS for Scotland for much longer.
Gove is making all his lies and defalcations look almost sensible here.
Admittedly he took out Boris, but the suggestion he did in the national interest and is not doing it for personal reasons - even Marr isn't letting him get away with that!
My wife and I decided that the TV should be in mute as Michael Gove is so tedious and boring and it is a pleasant day here in North Wales and we can look on the sunny uplands of our wonderful football team
Tories here: why did Boris not stand ? I believe the rules require only two backers, am I right ? Or, did he really believe that he should be crowned with acclamation.
Tories here: why did Boris not stand ? I believe the rules require only two backers, am I right ? Or, did he really believe that he should be crowned with acclamation.
No idea. And I still don't think we know what happened on Thursday. Maybe Boris will enlighten us in his Telegraph comment later?
Tories here: why did Boris not stand ? I believe the rules require only two backers, am I right ? Or, did he really believe that he should be crowned with acclamation.
I’m not a Tory, but was it the prospect of an humiliation that even he couldn’t laugh off?
No... But if the referendum result is essentially ignored by Mrs May chances are both Labour and Tories will collapse across the country in 2020.... And Farage will be the beneficiary.
The voters have put the political class on notice. What the politicians do next is up to them but the voters are watching and waiting...
What part of May intoning BREXIT means BREXIT passed you by ?
Gove and Leadsom both pushing the 'PM should be Brexiter' angle. It's not without sense, although in terms of party management a remainer makes sense too, so long as they remain, ha, committed to leave now. But I think it could work for one of them - several people I know are in full on conspiracy mode (Gove was never a Brexiter apparently, he was a remainer plant to destroy Boris) about what remainers might do, and even the less fearful may overlook plenty in a Leaver so long as they get a true leaver (such as Leadsom's comments 3 years ago - I myself have switched views in the same period because the EU got worse and it could not be ignored any longe).
Looking at the front pages what a horrible bunch of people permeate the top of the Conservative Party. They need reminding that more than a year ago they were elected to govern, the PM has acted like a spoilt child, his sidekick has vanished after yet another u-turn and now senior figures are busily knifing each other front and back.
Meanwhile the country has spoken and expects the govt to act accordingly, what a useless, self serving mob they are.
Why do people keep saying 'the country has spoken'? It may have muttered a bit and indicated that it wasn't sure, really.
You obviously not clear that over 50% in a FPTP election means the people have spoken, you don't win just a little bit , it is black and white. You seem to think we are in a banana republic.
Comments
And who are the epigoni going to be?
Whoever leads the Tories has a majority over the main opposition party of 98, assuming that that party can get it’s act together. There appear to be no by-elections on the horizon, apart from one which is a Labour shoo-in.
I think Osborne will stay as CoE however to steady the ship in in the short term and to act as a shield for May when the economy goes south.
https://mobile.twitter.com/beingrichard/status/749388186812493825
I wonder of they're finally starting to think about options other than keeping Corbyn and gambling that they'll end up with a murder-suicide instead of a suicide-murder.
I notice you don't address my point btw.
I did like
https://twitter.com/johnprescott/status/748819874777038848?s=09
It would also allow him time to dream up fantasy policies - he's quite good as a backroom boy
Unless you are innumerate you cannot say that an advisory referendum passed by a tiny margin of 3.8% is a ringing endorsement.
Mr. Song, no. Clarkson's job is to be noticed and cause controversy. But he's also espousing a view many people, including some MPs, hold.
Mr. Thompson, a fair point that there was pressure on Cameron whereas Blair gleefully indulged his poor judgement of his own free will.
You need to man up, accept that a majority spoke and that your beloved had two fingers stuck up at them. Until you do you'll carry on whining like a spoilt child, grow up ffs and address the issues, ask yourself how and why it happened.
King Cole, which bit?
For years I've campaigned to leave the EU, I'm delighted. I'm even more delighted to see the tories exposed as what I've been saying for years and tickled by the infantile response of Remainers such as yourself.
Sorry if you have a problem with that attitude, I'll introduce you to plenty who feel exactly the same.
The price for Theresa May is probably worth keeping an eye on in relation to her price for the leadership. If she doesn't win then she'll still almost certainly have a very substantial share of the party vote and a large plurality - quite probably a majority - of the parliamentary party behind her. Unless she chose to take her bat home, which I'd very much doubt, then I reckon that there'd be about a 60% chance of her moving to No 11. There are arguments both ways and a new leader might have his or her own supporters to reward but keeping such a powerful individual out of the Number Two slot would be a risky move, all the more so if it's someone without much experience at the top themself. Sure, May would be a ready-made replacement but then she'd still be that if she stayed at the Home Office or went to the backbenches.
As Peter Hitchens has it today, May is a Blairite manager.
If the tories elect this person, they are staring disaster in the face.
I actually think we're even less likely to step back from this if a remainer Tory wins - I think it highly improbable regardless, but if a leaver got a new offer from Europe which justified asking people again - hypothesis only, no offer is coming - the leavers might split between those who felt we didn't get enough before and the die hards, and they might be able to step back. If it's a remainer, they'd be ousted before they could try, because even less people than the other example would trust their new offer, it'd be assumed they planned it all along.
The FACTS are that REMAIN won what was only an advisory referendum very narrowly (less than 52:48).
You're getting much too emotional about having these facts pointed out to you and are starting to swear, please try to calm down.
The usual suspects for one will never be happy.
Agree with TSE - Gove & Leadsom to 'Ministry of Brexit' - where they can get on with delivering LEAVE's contradictory and mutually exclusive promises......
But I would take Leadsom too.
If they elect May, UKIP will be doing handsprings. She clearly intends business as usual with a rubbish deal and no real changes - she is the queen of masterly inaction.
Mr. Taffys, interesting choice.
Not sure who I'd vote for, had I a vote. Which I don't.
We should have them more often
True fact.
We may well, of course, learn a bit more about that soon.
Remarkably, Theresa May is more popular than Michael Gove among both Remain voters and Leave voters. 64% of Leave voters have a favourable opinion of Theresa May, compared to 51% who view Michael Gove favourably. Among Remain voters there is no contest: Only 5% of people who voted to Remain have a favourable view of Gove, while 49% of Remain voters like Theresa May.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/07/02/theresa-may-more-popular-gove-even-among-leave-vot/
So all our fervent LEAVE posters don't really have much of a clue about LEAVE voters, do they?
Edit: It's properly wet, they can't see anything and the SC is staying out for a few laps.
There will be an explosion of fury out there in six months when precisely nothing changes,as it hasn;t during May's six year tenure as Home Secretary, when as David Mellor said she ducked every major issue and turned into McCavity when things went wrong.
She is the opposite of what voters want, as the conservatives will very quickly discover to their enormous cost.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36694899
At least if it does stop the track dries at a quick rate. Bit miffed if the forecast is that wrong, to be honest.
May: +45
Gove: +15
Of course among REMAIN voters May slaughters Gove:
Net Favourable:
May: +16
Gove: -84
The voters aren't as hung up on the personalities as our LEAVErs....
Looks like we will be very little different outside compared to what we were inside. Pure Brexiters can jump into the Channel.
Len McCluskey sounding as mad as that loathsome Rachel 'lots of people support Corbyn' Shami.
1) Not denying she would involve Farage in the Brexit negotiations
2) Is she's going to publish her tax returns?
Or am I wrong?
Which is why I am convinced the runoff will be Crabb vs May. Neither are inspired but both of them are at least able to pretend competence.
McCluskey's 'there's no falling away of Labour support' is the most implausible and unconvincing political lie since Eden denied collaborating with the French and Israelis over Suez.
The voters have put the political class on notice. What the politicians do next is up to them but the voters are watching and waiting...
Gove is making all his lies and defalcations look almost sensible here.
Admittedly he took out Boris, but the suggestion he did in the national interest and is not doing it for personal reasons - even Marr isn't letting him get away with that!
We're doomed! Doomed!
Or, did he really believe that he should be crowned with acclamation.
Mr. Sandpit, at least they're willing to bring in the safety car early rather than trundling around forever and a day like they do in F1.
Shall we set up a campaign group on here?