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  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    The only district council in the West Midlands likely to vote Remain convincingly is Warwick, which also includes Leamington Spa and Kenilworth. If it isn't an easy win for Remain (at least 55%) they'll probably be in trouble. (I spent most of yesterday there, incidentally). The Press Association gives an estimated declaration time of 2am.

    http://election.pressassociation.com/Declaration_times/eu_ref_2016_by_name.php

    That's my home turf. Very little activity throughout the campaign. Very few posters, very few leaflets. Most of the students have gone home. I'd expect a tight Remain win, thanks to Leamington and Kenilworth. I'd expect Warwick itself to be Leave.

    Remain 57.6%, Leave 42.4% for a 50-50 result nationwide in the Warwick, Leam, Kenilworth area.
    My formula is giving a similar result. It says if the result in England is 50/50 the result in Warwick would be 57.46% Remain. I'll give a link to the spreadsheet later.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    FF43 said:

    Ta. I never read it in that way. I always assumed it was something to do with a serious event where all sides agreed it was necessary for security or health.

    Yes, I think your interpretation is correct.
    I think Iceland did trigger article 112 on freedom of movement along with capital controls following their 2008 meltdown. In that case the restrictions were agreed.

    The purpose of the mechanism is to allow you to take quick action in response to emergency situations and justify it afterwards. It's not designed as a convenient opt out to basic principles in the agreement that you would prefer not to have to keep to.
    Actually, I think they only triggered Article 112 on Freedom of Capital.

    See:
    http://moneyweek.com/merryns-blog/the-options-for-britain-if-we-vote-for-brexit/
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,339
    Specially for leavers - Sky going live to Jo Cox tribute in Trafalgar Square
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985

    Specially for leavers - Sky going live to Jo Cox tribute in Trafalgar Square

    Just as long as we don't have remainers making capital out of it ;)
  • Options
    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    :grin: success but doubt if I'll remember how to do it in a couple of hours let alone days!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    chestnut said:

    Frank Field:

    "We've run a campaign, which if you wanted to destroy and break the Labour party, you couldn't have devised a better one. We know that 14% - maybe more of our vote - will vote to leave. It's crucial they felt that they are proper Labour voters, that they are not renegades and have failed some test and are therefore not members of the Labour party. Because if they felt that, then woe betide what's going to happen to us at the next election in 2020."

    Does he mean 14% from the 30% who voted Labour in 2015?

    Presumably he means 14pp, not 14pc?

    i.e. the 30 will split 14-16, not (30*0.14) - (30*0.86)
    If half of Labour voters vote Leave, surely it is all over?
    Yes. Unless a majority of Conservatives come out for Remain.

    Which could mean we got a Leaver running the Labour Party and a Remainer running the Tories.

    Oh wait, that's exactly what we do have.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    edited June 2016
    Blue_rog said:

    :grin: success but doubt if I'll remember how to do it in a couple of hours let alone days!

    Might be good just to post the link. Not to sure how fondly the mods are on images being posted (twitter pastes are another thing I guess?)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    Lennon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SPML said:

    There is a 50 deep queue at the currency exchange on Fleet Street. The City is already panicing re the result! Makes me wonder if the people know already that leave have won. BTW, going on the experts on this site, from Paul, Plato, MarqueeMark, SouthamObserver, chesnut et al it is going to be a huge leave win.

    It could be a huge Leave win.

    Or it could be a big Remain win.

    Nobody really knows.

    My anecdote is that at least 85% of the people I know and work with are for Remain. Where I live (NW3) I see lots of Remain campaigners and posters.

    But I know that Hampstead is utterly unrepresentative (not least because it's so full of American investment bankers that there are practically no Brits allowed to vote in the referendum).

    Remain par score of 68% for Camden.
    Where are you getting your 'Leave/Remain' par scores from and do you have them for the whole country?
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AQoI3SjmZta2KL1wMSHWrUozrFiXGfrqRq1U7fGhyAU/edit?usp=sharing

    I've ordered Chis Hanretty's work from https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tRE59IkgeRREISpM75I8gR0MdkGe1diParW0hVO109Y/edit#gid=881507152
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,757
    rcs1000 said:

    FF43 said:

    Ta. I never read it in that way. I always assumed it was something to do with a serious event where all sides agreed it was necessary for security or health.

    Yes, I think your interpretation is correct.
    I think Iceland did trigger article 112 on freedom of movement along with capital controls following their 2008 meltdown. In that case the restrictions were agreed.

    The purpose of the mechanism is to allow you to take quick action in response to emergency situations and justify it afterwards. It's not designed as a convenient opt out to basic principles in the agreement that you would prefer not to have to keep to.
    Actually, I think they only triggered Article 112 on Freedom of Capital.

    See:
    http://moneyweek.com/merryns-blog/the-options-for-britain-if-we-vote-for-brexit/
    You may be right. I recall reading somewhere that restrictions on freedom of movement was tied up in the freedom of capital issue. I can't think of the reason for that, so I may be mis-recalling it.
  • Options
    LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    Sandpit said:

    Blue_rog said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Does anyone know how to post pictures?

    You need to upload them somewhere (https://postimage.org/), and then you insert an img tag in your text.

    Thanks. If I knew more about it I'd try
    Hit "quote" to this comment then look at the reply from @rcs1000 above. Copy and paste his link then edit the bit between the " " quotes with your link and replace the words "img tag" with your description. Hope that makes sense. :)
    Or alternatively, use the box at the bottom of the page to enter your comment and use the "add image" button which is at the top of the box.

  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    DanSmith said:

    chestnut said:

    Frank Field:

    "We've run a campaign, which if you wanted to destroy and break the Labour party, you couldn't have devised a better one. We know that 14% - maybe more of our vote - will vote to leave. It's crucial they felt that they are proper Labour voters, that they are not renegades and have failed some test and are therefore not members of the Labour party. Because if they felt that, then woe betide what's going to happen to us at the next election in 2020."

    Does he mean 14% from the 30% who voted Labour in 2015?

    Forty and fourteen sound very similar when spoken verbally.
    "spoken verbally"?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    LucyJones said:

    Sandpit said:

    Blue_rog said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Does anyone know how to post pictures?

    You need to upload them somewhere (https://postimage.org/), and then you insert an img tag in your text.

    Thanks. If I knew more about it I'd try
    Hit "quote" to this comment then look at the reply from @rcs1000 above. Copy and paste his link then edit the bit between the " " quotes with your link and replace the words "img tag" with your description. Hope that makes sense. :)
    Or alternatively, use the box at the bottom of the page to enter your comment and use the "add image" button which is at the top of the box.

    That's if you are browsing on politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    chestnut said:

    Frank Field:

    "We've run a campaign, which if you wanted to destroy and break the Labour party, you couldn't have devised a better one. We know that 14% - maybe more of our vote - will vote to leave. It's crucial they felt that they are proper Labour voters, that they are not renegades and have failed some test and are therefore not members of the Labour party. Because if they felt that, then woe betide what's going to happen to us at the next election in 2020."

    Does he mean 14% from the 30% who voted Labour in 2015?

    Presumably he means 14pp, not 14pc?

    i.e. the 30 will split 14-16, not (30*0.14) - (30*0.86)
    If half of Labour voters vote Leave, surely it is all over?
    Likewise if it is 14-86 it's all over for Leave. FF is working with Vote Leave
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    DanSmith said:

    chestnut said:

    Frank Field:

    "We've run a campaign, which if you wanted to destroy and break the Labour party, you couldn't have devised a better one. We know that 14% - maybe more of our vote - will vote to leave. It's crucial they felt that they are proper Labour voters, that they are not renegades and have failed some test and are therefore not members of the Labour party. Because if they felt that, then woe betide what's going to happen to us at the next election in 2020."

    Does he mean 14% from the 30% who voted Labour in 2015?

    Forty and fourteen sound very similar when spoken verbally.
    Yes - if 14% of Labour vote leave then Remain will walk this. If 40% vote Leave then Leave will.

    (My maths teacher always used to say 'fourteen' and 'fortae' to avoid confusion)
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Ta. I never read it in that way. I always assumed it was something to do with a serious event where all sides agreed it was necessary for security or health.

    Yes, I think your interpretation is correct.
    Reading the articles, any state may take emergency measures but:
    1. the measures should be the least necessary to resolve the crisis
    2. they should be kept to those measures consistent with the spirit of the agreements
    3. they should last as short a period as possible
    4. they should be mutually agreed

    Where possible, the state should hold off a month before implementing the measures so that the proposals can be reviewed and a mutually acceptable process negotiated. Where implementation is sooner because of events, the review and negotiation still takes place

    Any disputes are subject to binding arbitration.

    So all in all most definitely not a unilateral brake.
  • Options
    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    LucyJones said:

    Sandpit said:

    Blue_rog said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Does anyone know how to post pictures?

    You need to upload them somewhere (https://postimage.org/), and then you insert an img tag in your text.

    Thanks. If I knew more about it I'd try
    Hit "quote" to this comment then look at the reply from @rcs1000 above. Copy and paste his link then edit the bit between the " " quotes with your link and replace the words "img tag" with your description. Hope that makes sense. :)
    Or alternatively, use the box at the bottom of the page to enter your comment and use the "add image" button which is at the top of the box.

    Brilliant, use the edit function very easy
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,313

    rcs1000 said:

    SPML said:

    There is a 50 deep queue at the currency exchange on Fleet Street. The City is already panicing re the result! Makes me wonder if the people know already that leave have won. BTW, going on the experts on this site, from Paul, Plato, MarqueeMark, SouthamObserver, chesnut et al it is going to be a huge leave win.

    It could be a huge Leave win.

    Or it could be a big Remain win.

    Nobody really knows.

    My anecdote is that at least 85% of the people I know and work with are for Remain. Where I live (NW3) I see lots of Remain campaigners and posters.

    But I know that Hampstead is utterly unrepresentative (not least because it's so full of American investment bankers that there are practically no Brits allowed to vote in the referendum).

    The pound euro has done well this week and all my family have bought our holiday euros this week at between 1.25 and 1.27 as a hedge against a 15-20% fall on Friday. As the polls are close why would you risk a large fall when you are probably going on holiday within a month or so and can hedge against it
    A Brexit vote will most likely send both currencies downwards, so for a currency indicator I suggest GBP/USD is the one to watch.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,655

    tyson said:

    @Richard Nabavi
    Just to fill you in with modern culture, Morrissey is someone who professes to sing and once headed up a band called the Smiths, unlike John Barnes who used to kick a football around for a living.

    Thanks. I'd heard of Morrissey although not the Smiths. I take it that I needn't trouble myself to listen to his music, let alone his political views?
    I think Morrissey is a bit like Asda. Best stick to Waitrose.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    No, Coventry I think - the areas add up to net leave -2.5 (I think remain council areas have more people...) also NI + Gib add 0.6 to remain, so the true bellwether is perhaps... Rutland
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    BBC World News have Ros Atkins (?) at a pub in Tunbridge Wells run by a Frenchman, who said if he had a vote he'd vote Leave.

    Vive les grenouilles!

    What you mean he didn't accidentally on purpose get sent a polling card? Must have been one of the unlucky few.
    He's wearing a pink shirt with a screamingly non-matching tie that looks like it came from the Stevie Wonder fashion boutique. Anything's possible.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,877
    Afternoon all :)

    Something useful - a 90 minute meeting all done and dusted in 20 minutes. That doesn't happen too often in my world.

    In East Ham there are NO posters at all, anywhere. No sign of the Labour machine in operation (and it is very effective at local and general elections as Stephen Timms managed to scrape home by 34,000 last year). No canvassing and it'll be interesting to see if there is any activity at the polling stations tomorrow.

    Mr Timms is IN and has seen by Mrs Stodge in East Ham High Street on a stall. IN have had a young guy leafleting at Waterloo the past couple of mornings (and I expect much more tomorrow evening) but nothing at East Ham apart from the Communist Party man (LEAVE). Various leaflets through the door from both sides.

    Turnout is around 40% in my part of Newham and I'd expect similar tomorrow.
  • Options
    LennonLennon Posts: 1,735
    Pulpstar said:

    Lennon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SPML said:

    There is a 50 deep queue at the currency exchange on Fleet Street. The City is already panicing re the result! Makes me wonder if the people know already that leave have won. BTW, going on the experts on this site, from Paul, Plato, MarqueeMark, SouthamObserver, chesnut et al it is going to be a huge leave win.

    It could be a huge Leave win.

    Or it could be a big Remain win.

    Nobody really knows.

    My anecdote is that at least 85% of the people I know and work with are for Remain. Where I live (NW3) I see lots of Remain campaigners and posters.

    But I know that Hampstead is utterly unrepresentative (not least because it's so full of American investment bankers that there are practically no Brits allowed to vote in the referendum).

    Remain par score of 68% for Camden.
    Where are you getting your 'Leave/Remain' par scores from and do you have them for the whole country?
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AQoI3SjmZta2KL1wMSHWrUozrFiXGfrqRq1U7fGhyAU/edit?usp=sharing

    I've ordered Chis Hanretty's work from https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tRE59IkgeRREISpM75I8gR0MdkGe1diParW0hVO109Y/edit#gid=881507152
    Thanks - now just need to combine with the EC Electorate Data and/or Andy's spreadsheet as well.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    weejonnie said:

    DanSmith said:

    chestnut said:

    Frank Field:

    "We've run a campaign, which if you wanted to destroy and break the Labour party, you couldn't have devised a better one. We know that 14% - maybe more of our vote - will vote to leave. It's crucial they felt that they are proper Labour voters, that they are not renegades and have failed some test and are therefore not members of the Labour party. Because if they felt that, then woe betide what's going to happen to us at the next election in 2020."

    Does he mean 14% from the 30% who voted Labour in 2015?

    Forty and fourteen sound very similar when spoken verbally.
    Yes - if 14% of Labour vote leave then Remain will walk this. If 40% vote Leave then Leave will.

    (My maths teacher always used to say 'fourteen' and 'fortae' to avoid confusion)
    not 'blind forty' like a bingo caller?
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    tyson said:

    @Richard Nabavi
    Just to fill you in with modern culture, Morrissey is someone who professes to sing and once headed up a band called the Smiths, unlike John Barnes who used to kick a football around for a living.

    Thanks. I'd heard of Morrissey although not the Smiths. I take it that I needn't trouble myself to listen to his music, let alone his political views?
    I think Morrissey is a bit like Asda. Best stick to Waitrose.
    More Co-op than ASDA (Walmart) I think
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,216
    Alistair said:

    So after Leave wins and in 5 years time immigration is still at roughly the same levels what happens then?

    "It was never about immigration."
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,877
    Blue_rog said:

    second test
    Yes

    Lovely picture of East Ham, my friend !!

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    vikvik Posts: 157
    Alistair said:

    So after Leave wins and in 5 years time immigration is still at roughly the same levels what happens then?

    You vote out the government & put in a new government that does what it promises to do.

    It's really not that hard to control immigration, for a sovereign country in control of its own borders.

    Only people with visas are allowed to enter the country.

    The government then sets an annual quota for the number of people they're going to admit, for example, 10,000 refugee visas, or 50,000 skilled employee visas.

    Once the quota is reached, then the government stops issuing visas until the next year.
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''A Brexit vote will most likely send both currencies downwards, so for a currency indicator I suggest GBP/USD is the one to watch. ''

    Is Brexit worse for the euro than it is for sterling?

    Discuss.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    betfair is fascinating, barely any moves. Approx £200k wanting to lay Remain at around 3/10. In contrast just over £30k wanting to lay Leave at around 3s.

    Lots of nail biting in front of PCs
  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    The only district council in the West Midlands likely to vote Remain convincingly is Warwick, which also includes Leamington Spa and Kenilworth. If it isn't an easy win for Remain (at least 55%) they'll probably be in trouble. (I spent most of yesterday there, incidentally). The Press Association gives an estimated declaration time of 2am.

    http://election.pressassociation.com/Declaration_times/eu_ref_2016_by_name.php

    That's my home turf. Very little activity throughout the campaign. Very few posters, very few leaflets. Most of the students have gone home. I'd expect a tight Remain win, thanks to Leamington and Kenilworth. I'd expect Warwick itself to be Leave.

    It does emphasise how much the Remain camp is relying on voters in the big cities to turn out when their best district council area in one of the regions like Warwick is likely to be close. Take the South West for example: where are Remain confident of winning apart from Bristol, Bath and Exeter?
    I suspect the next best will be Cheltenham and Stroud
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Pulpstar said:

    No, Coventry I think - the areas add up to net leave -2.5 (I think remain council areas have more people...) also NI + Gib add 0.6 to remain, so the true bellwether is perhaps... Rutland
    Rutland?! That's Leave territory surely. Unless the members of Barnsdale pour out in support of Remain between rounds...
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Here comes Trump...
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    chrisoxonchrisoxon Posts: 204
    weejonnie said:

    DanSmith said:

    chestnut said:

    Frank Field:

    "We've run a campaign, which if you wanted to destroy and break the Labour party, you couldn't have devised a better one. We know that 14% - maybe more of our vote - will vote to leave. It's crucial they felt that they are proper Labour voters, that they are not renegades and have failed some test and are therefore not members of the Labour party. Because if they felt that, then woe betide what's going to happen to us at the next election in 2020."

    Does he mean 14% from the 30% who voted Labour in 2015?

    Forty and fourteen sound very similar when spoken verbally.
    Yes - if 14% of Labour vote leave then Remain will walk this. If 40% vote Leave then Leave will.

    (My maths teacher always used to say 'fourteen' and 'fortae' to avoid confusion)
    I think you're probably right. No one would be highlighting that they represent such a small percentage.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    Alistair said:

    So after Leave wins and in 5 years time immigration is still at roughly the same levels what happens then?

    They carry on blaming the migrants and the Eurocrats and the liberal elites. It is a winning formula so why stop?
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    betfair is fascinating, barely any moves. Approx £200k wanting to lay Remain at around 3/10. In contrast just over £30k wanting to lay Leave at around 3s.

    Lots of nail biting in front of PCs

    What is Leave currently?
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Something useful - a 90 minute meeting all done and dusted in 20 minutes. That doesn't happen too often in my world.

    In East Ham there are NO posters at all, anywhere. No sign of the Labour machine in operation (and it is very effective at local and general elections as Stephen Timms managed to scrape home by 34,000 last year). No canvassing and it'll be interesting to see if there is any activity at the polling stations tomorrow.

    Mr Timms is IN and has seen by Mrs Stodge in East Ham High Street on a stall. IN have had a young guy leafleting at Waterloo the past couple of mornings (and I expect much more tomorrow evening) but nothing at East Ham apart from the Communist Party man (LEAVE). Various leaflets through the door from both sides.

    Turnout is around 40% in my part of Newham and I'd expect similar tomorrow.

    Remain need a much better turnout than 40% in places like Newham I'd suggest.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941

    Pulpstar said:

    No, Coventry I think - the areas add up to net leave -2.5 (I think remain council areas have more people...) also NI + Gib add 0.6 to remain, so the true bellwether is perhaps... Rutland
    Rutland?! That's Leave territory surely. Unless the members of Barnsdale pour out in support of Remain between rounds...
    No hold on, it is Broxtowe. I'm being daft here !
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Apologies if published

    SurveyMonkey

    Remain 50 (+2)
    Leave 47 (-2)

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/survey-monkey-final-poll-shows-remain-is-decisively-in-the-lead-2016-6

    Earlier poll was 24 hours ago.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Something useful - a 90 minute meeting all done and dusted in 20 minutes. That doesn't happen too often in my world.

    In East Ham there are NO posters at all, anywhere. No sign of the Labour machine in operation (and it is very effective at local and general elections as Stephen Timms managed to scrape home by 34,000 last year). No canvassing and it'll be interesting to see if there is any activity at the polling stations tomorrow.

    Mr Timms is IN and has seen by Mrs Stodge in East Ham High Street on a stall. IN have had a young guy leafleting at Waterloo the past couple of mornings (and I expect much more tomorrow evening) but nothing at East Ham apart from the Communist Party man (LEAVE). Various leaflets through the door from both sides.

    Turnout is around 40% in my part of Newham and I'd expect similar tomorrow.

    Vote leave have been canvassing in Newham according to their website.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    It's going to be brutal for "remain" if Newham is at 40% turnout.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    edited June 2016

    betfair is fascinating, barely any moves. Approx £200k wanting to lay Remain at around 3/10. In contrast just over £30k wanting to lay Leave at around 3s.

    Lots of nail biting in front of PCs

    What is Leave currently?
    4.1

    £65k wanting to back Leave £40k wanting to lay it.

    Guessers market, traders only
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,290
    edited June 2016
    FTSE = 6,290 (up 1.02%)

    £ = $1.472 (up 0.46%)

    Pound is at its highest vs the Dollar since January.

    If there are any private polls being done the above doesn't suggest a Leave surge.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    "Clinton a world-class liar, a total and self-serving ...liar..."
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    betfair is fascinating, barely any moves. Approx £200k wanting to lay Remain at around 3/10. In contrast just over £30k wanting to lay Leave at around 3s.

    Lots of nail biting in front of PCs

    I believe in a two horse race like this Betfair autobalances the market so any price offered on Remain is mirrored on the Leave side.

    No need to watch both sides, just watch Remain.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    RodCrosby said:

    "Clinton a world-class liar, a total and self-serving ...liar..."

    Soaring rhetoric from the Trumpet
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Alistair said:

    betfair is fascinating, barely any moves. Approx £200k wanting to lay Remain at around 3/10. In contrast just over £30k wanting to lay Leave at around 3s.

    Lots of nail biting in front of PCs

    I believe in a two horse race like this Betfair autobalances the market so any price offered on Remain is mirrored on the Leave side.

    No need to watch both sides, just watch Remain.
    What does autobalance mean?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    MikeL said:

    FTSE = 6,290 (up 1.02%)

    £ = $1.472 (up 0.46%)

    Pound is at its highest vs the Dollar since January.

    If there are any private polls being done the above doesn't suggest a Leave surge.

    The City of London is predicted to go 75 Remain, 25 Leave - the strongest remain vote in the whole of the UK !

    Could be a currency trader feedback loop.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Tim_B said:

    weejonnie said:

    DanSmith said:

    chestnut said:

    Frank Field:

    "We've run a campaign, which if you wanted to destroy and break the Labour party, you couldn't have devised a better one. We know that 14% - maybe more of our vote - will vote to leave. It's crucial they felt that they are proper Labour voters, that they are not renegades and have failed some test and are therefore not members of the Labour party. Because if they felt that, then woe betide what's going to happen to us at the next election in 2020."

    Does he mean 14% from the 30% who voted Labour in 2015?

    Forty and fourteen sound very similar when spoken verbally.
    Yes - if 14% of Labour vote leave then Remain will walk this. If 40% vote Leave then Leave will.

    (My maths teacher always used to say 'fourteen' and 'fortae' to avoid confusion)
    not 'blind forty' like a bingo caller?
    Why on earth would he say 14%. That's a bit too precise must of meant 40% which I think is on the high side.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    Jobabob said:

    Apologies if published

    SurveyMonkey

    Remain 50 (+2)
    Leave 47 (-2)

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/survey-monkey-final-poll-shows-remain-is-decisively-in-the-lead-2016-6

    Earlier poll was 24 hours ago.

    Decisively? :p
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    It's going to be brutal for "remain" if Newham is at 40% turnout.

    My figures predict 74% Remain in Newham if England is 50/50. Seems a bit high: perhaps the formula is overegging the effect of the small percentage of white British people there.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,884
    Pulpstar said:

    It's going to be brutal for "remain" if Newham is at 40% turnout.

    Yes. If things go wrong I'll hold my hand up, but the EU and its supporters have not exactly done a great job a) selling the EU to the public or b) getting them to the polls (if that is the sort of turnout they will get)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    AndyJS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It's going to be brutal for "remain" if Newham is at 40% turnout.

    My figures predict 74% Remain in Newham if England is 50/50.
    Do you have a link to your spreadsheet Andy ?
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    RobD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Apologies if published

    SurveyMonkey

    Remain 50 (+2)
    Leave 47 (-2)

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/survey-monkey-final-poll-shows-remain-is-decisively-in-the-lead-2016-6

    Earlier poll was 24 hours ago.

    Decisively? :p
    Their words not mine :)
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,969
    Is there anywhere you can go to actually see the registered voter numbers? I am interested in seeing what the influence of London is in real registered voter numbers rather than population.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited June 2016

    Alistair said:

    betfair is fascinating, barely any moves. Approx £200k wanting to lay Remain at around 3/10. In contrast just over £30k wanting to lay Leave at around 3s.

    Lots of nail biting in front of PCs

    I believe in a two horse race like this Betfair autobalances the market so any price offered on Remain is mirrored on the Leave side.

    No need to watch both sides, just watch Remain.
    What does autobalance mean?
    What I said in the second half on the sentence - Betfair automatically mirrors any Back or Lay offer on Remain so there is an equal value Back/Lay on Leave.

    IF you think about it as Betfair is a punter-to-punter market it doesn't need to offer both the Remain and Leave options. It could just have one choice, Remain. People who want to back Remain back that option, people who want to back Leave would lay Remain.

    As that is a bit advanced for the average punter it offers backing opportunities for both Remain and Leave and automatically balances the money offered between them so both choices are indistinguishable from each other.

    Otherwise there would be the chance to arbitrage the two options.

    EDIT: So say there are no prices offered by anyone, a completely new market and the first punter comes along and asks to be able to back Leave @ 3.0 for £10. That is the same as offering to lay Remain for £20 @ 1.5
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    PlatoSaid said:

    Guido
    Sources tell @AFP EU members states will meet next week to open Turkey membership talks: https://t.co/sMa3WR5BGs https://t.co/CiAtRIUhM2

    Looks like Turkey will be Remain's biggest lie then....
    And it's not exactly a small field either.

    I actually met someone over lunch today who isn't sure how to vote and thinks less democracy is a price worth paying to stay in Europe .... paying for what he wasn't clear on.

    I asked him to name 1 positive about the EU - tumbleweed.



  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    RodCrosby said:

    "Clinton a world-class liar, a total and self-serving ...liar..."

    Is there any particular reason you're telling us this? Interesting would be Trump expressing empathy with, well anyone expect white assault rifle owners.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    vik said:

    Alistair said:

    So after Leave wins and in 5 years time immigration is still at roughly the same levels what happens then?

    You vote out the government & put in a new government that does what it promises to do.

    It's really not that hard to control immigration, for a sovereign country in control of its own borders.

    Only people with visas are allowed to enter the country.

    The government then sets an annual quota for the number of people they're going to admit, for example, 10,000 refugee visas, or 50,000 skilled employee visas.

    Once the quota is reached, then the government stops issuing visas until the next year.
    No spouse visas, student visas etc?
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Is there anywhere you can go to actually see the registered voter numbers? I am interested in seeing what the influence of London is in real registered voter numbers rather than population.

    http://www.cityam.com/243848/eu-referendum-record-number-people-registered-vote-says
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited June 2016
    Could be a currency trader feedback loop.

    If the City were really very heavily in favour of remain, surely the hedge would be buy leave. Leave odds should be outperforming the poll score, not under performing.

    Then again, if you are short sterling, the hedge is buy remain

    I don;t understand the betting on this referendum at all.
  • Options
    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    AndyJS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It's going to be brutal for "remain" if Newham is at 40% turnout.

    My figures predict 74% Remain in Newham if England is 50/50. Seems a bit high: perhaps the formula is overegging the effect of the small percentage of white British people there.
    Are you assuming uniform turnout?
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    matt said:

    SPML said:

    There is a 50 deep queue at the currency exchange on Fleet Street. The City is already panicing re the result! Makes me wonder if the people know already that leave have won. BTW, going on the experts on this site, from Paul, Plato, MarqueeMark, SouthamObserver, chesnut et al it is going to be a huge leave win.

    It'll be 52:48 in favour of Leave. But, Jaysus, I am no expert!!

    That list of names brings new colour to the word, "expert".
    Do u really think it will be a leave win or are you just being pessimistic in the hope of a surprise win for remain?
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    MikeL said:

    FTSE = 6,290 (up 1.02%)

    £ = $1.472 (up 0.46%)

    Pound is at its highest vs the Dollar since January.

    If there are any private polls being done the above doesn't suggest a Leave surge.

    The City of London is predicted to go 75 Remain, 25 Leave - the strongest remain vote in the whole of the UK !

    Could be a currency trader feedback loop.
    Does anybody actually live in the City of London?
  • Options
    LennonLennon Posts: 1,735
    AndyJS said:

    Is there anywhere you can go to actually see the registered voter numbers? I am interested in seeing what the influence of London is in real registered voter numbers rather than population.

    http://www.cityam.com/243848/eu-referendum-record-number-people-registered-vote-says
    http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/excel_doc/0017/210905/European-Union-Referendum-Electorate.xlsx
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Patrick said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MikeL said:

    FTSE = 6,290 (up 1.02%)

    £ = $1.472 (up 0.46%)

    Pound is at its highest vs the Dollar since January.

    If there are any private polls being done the above doesn't suggest a Leave surge.

    The City of London is predicted to go 75 Remain, 25 Leave - the strongest remain vote in the whole of the UK !

    Could be a currency trader feedback loop.
    Does anybody actually live in the City of London?
    Just under 6000 registered voters.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    taffys said:

    ''A Brexit vote will most likely send both currencies downwards, so for a currency indicator I suggest GBP/USD is the one to watch. ''

    Is Brexit worse for the euro than it is for sterling?

    Discuss.

    I would estimate sterling will fall about 3-4% more than the Euro in the event of Brexit. I would reckon that USD wrote rise against all currencies in the event of Brexit. We'd see a pretty major "flight to safety".
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Michael Gove forced to apologise for comparing pro-EU experts to Nazi propagandists according to the Sun
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited June 2016
    "Clinton has unleashed ISIS on the world. Every decision of hers has brought death and destruction..."

    "almost single-handedly de-stabilized the Middle East."
  • Options
    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Stupid question guys. But am I registered to vote?

    I've lived at the same property for 11 years and have never had an issue in the past, but has anything changed for this vote?
  • Options
    LennonLennon Posts: 1,735
    Patrick said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MikeL said:

    FTSE = 6,290 (up 1.02%)

    £ = $1.472 (up 0.46%)

    Pound is at its highest vs the Dollar since January.

    If there are any private polls being done the above doesn't suggest a Leave surge.

    The City of London is predicted to go 75 Remain, 25 Leave - the strongest remain vote in the whole of the UK !

    Could be a currency trader feedback loop.
    Does anybody actually live in the City of London?
    Apparently there is an Electorate of 5,986. There are actually quite a few blocks of flats etc around the place, as well as the Barbican of course.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It's going to be brutal for "remain" if Newham is at 40% turnout.

    My figures predict 74% Remain in Newham if England is 50/50.
    Do you have a link to your spreadsheet Andy ?
    This is just my personal effort so anyone placing bets may prefer to stick to Chris Hanretty's version. It uses census data which means population is used not electorates, but I've taken that into account when coming up with the formula. Thanks to PW who indirectly contributed to it. There are one or two which don't look right to me, such as Sandwell and Coventry but I've decided to continue using the same formula for the whole of England. It'll be interesting to compare it to the actual result on Friday:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCtN3IY76azcr_6OiFPvZI0eXi_8JJqxT7d8vNhW2Do/edit#gid=0
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    Fenster said:

    Stupid question guys. But am I registered to vote?

    I've lived at the same property for 11 years and have never had an issue in the past, but has anything changed for this vote?

    Did you get a polling card ?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    vik said:

    Alistair said:

    So after Leave wins and in 5 years time immigration is still at roughly the same levels what happens then?

    You vote out the government & put in a new government that does what it promises to do.

    It's really not that hard to control immigration, for a sovereign country in control of its own borders.

    Only people with visas are allowed to enter the country.

    The government then sets an annual quota for the number of people they're going to admit, for example, 10,000 refugee visas, or 50,000 skilled employee visas.

    Once the quota is reached, then the government stops issuing visas until the next year.
    You could do that with or without open borders.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Patrick said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MikeL said:

    FTSE = 6,290 (up 1.02%)

    £ = $1.472 (up 0.46%)

    Pound is at its highest vs the Dollar since January.

    If there are any private polls being done the above doesn't suggest a Leave surge.

    The City of London is predicted to go 75 Remain, 25 Leave - the strongest remain vote in the whole of the UK !

    Could be a currency trader feedback loop.
    Does anybody actually live in the City of London?
    About 7,000 in the poshest council estate in the country (Barbican)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    AndyJS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It's going to be brutal for "remain" if Newham is at 40% turnout.

    My figures predict 74% Remain in Newham if England is 50/50.
    Do you have a link to your spreadsheet Andy ?
    This is just my personal effort so anyone placing bets may prefer to stick to Chris Hanretty's version. It uses census data which means population is used not electorates, but I've taken that into account when coming up with the formula. Thanks to PW who indirectly contributed to it. There are one or two which don't look right to me, such as Sandwell and Coventry but I've decided to continue using the same formula for the whole of England. It'll be interesting to compare it to the actual result on Friday:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCtN3IY76azcr_6OiFPvZI0eXi_8JJqxT7d8vNhW2Do/edit#gid=0
    Wow thanks Andy - a great resource
  • Options
    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Is it the same media rules formtomorrow as a GE or can they report all day on the subject?
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    We'd see a pretty major "flight to safety".

    Initially I absolutely agree. The question is how quickly thoughts might turn to 'contagion' ie Nexit/Dexit/Frexit etc.

    Quite quickly, for me.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    timmo said:

    Is it the same media rules formtomorrow as a GE or can they report all day on the subject?

    I think it is the same. No Daily Politics tomorrow, for instance.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,835
    Great to see @AndyJS back with us as we count down to Remain Day! :smiley:
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Extraordinary coincidence:

    today is also the birthday of Bernard Carter-Kenny, the pensioner who was seriously injured trying to save Cox.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/22/eu-referendum-live-remain-leave-last-day-campaign
  • Options
    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Fenster said:

    Stupid question guys. But am I registered to vote?

    I've lived at the same property for 11 years and have never had an issue in the past, but has anything changed for this vote?

    Polling card? Did you vote at the GE?
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,877
    nunu said:

    Vote leave have been canvassing in Newham according to their website.

    Maybe but I'm in one corner of the borough. They could easily have been in Canning Town or Stratford or Plaistow.

    There is a by election in Forest Gate on July 14th caused by one of the Labour Councillors getting a job in Mayor Sadiq Khan's team at City Hall. Labour got 57.6% in Forest Green North in 2014 with the Greens pushing the Conservatives into third place.

    The TUSC, Lib Dems and CPA all put up candidates last time.

  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    edited June 2016

    Wanderer said:


    Oh, I thought he was coming before the vote.

    no 24th http://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/06/trumps-uk-visit/485075/
    Whenever he comes, I hope we frisk him and his entourage for firearms. And if we find them, refuse them entry.

    It would at least make a point that would not be missed.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    "Clinton may be the most corrupt person ever to seek the presidency of the USA..."
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    PClipp said:

    Wanderer said:


    Oh, I thought he was coming before the vote.

    no 24th http://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/06/trumps-uk-visit/485075/
    Whenever he comes, I hope we frisk him and his entourage for firearms. And if we find them refuse them entry.

    It would at least make a point that would not be missed.
    I don't think he'd be stupid enough to carry his own gun. Secret Service agents are probably allowed to bring their weapons.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,049
    When are the polls expected today?
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,969
    AndyJS said:

    Is there anywhere you can go to actually see the registered voter numbers? I am interested in seeing what the influence of London is in real registered voter numbers rather than population.

    http://www.cityam.com/243848/eu-referendum-record-number-people-registered-vote-says
    Ta muchly
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    matt said:

    RodCrosby said:

    "Clinton a world-class liar, a total and self-serving ...liar..."

    Is there any particular reason you're telling us this? Interesting would be Trump expressing empathy with, well anyone expect white assault rifle owners.
    Yes – we are in Ursidae slyvania territory here.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    After yesterday's pretty wild swings, the betfair exchange has been remarkably stable all day today, despite (I think) about £2m traded, with Remain hovering at about 1.32 - still seems bonkers to me. The calm before the storm?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    Alistair said:

    betfair is fascinating, barely any moves. Approx £200k wanting to lay Remain at around 3/10. In contrast just over £30k wanting to lay Leave at around 3s.

    Lots of nail biting in front of PCs

    I believe in a two horse race like this Betfair autobalances the market so any price offered on Remain is mirrored on the Leave side.

    No need to watch both sides, just watch Remain.
    That's correct, essentially liquidity is automatically pooled by magic algorithms inside Betfair.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,525
    EU referendum poll:
    Remain: 50% (+2)
    Leave: 47% (-2)
    (via SurveyMonkey, online)
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    Floater said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Guido
    Sources tell @AFP EU members states will meet next week to open Turkey membership talks: https://t.co/sMa3WR5BGs https://t.co/CiAtRIUhM2

    Looks like Turkey will be Remain's biggest lie then....
    And it's not exactly a small field either.

    I actually met someone over lunch today who isn't sure how to vote and thinks less democracy is a price worth paying to stay in Europe .... paying for what he wasn't clear on.

    I asked him to name 1 positive about the EU - tumbleweed.



    Ooohhh... do we get tumbleweed from the EU?
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    "Our enemies now have a blackmail fund against someone who wants to be POTUS. That fact alone disqualifies her..."
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    vik said:

    Alistair said:

    So after Leave wins and in 5 years time immigration is still at roughly the same levels what happens then?

    You vote out the government & put in a new government that does what it promises to do.

    It's really not that hard to control immigration, for a sovereign country in control of its own borders.

    Only people with visas are allowed to enter the country.

    The government then sets an annual quota for the number of people they're going to admit, for example, 10,000 refugee visas, or 50,000 skilled employee visas.

    Once the quota is reached, then the government stops issuing visas until the next year.
    No spouse visas, student visas etc?
    Indeed - and what if there are vacancies in a whole raft of key sector jobs. Sounds like a really fun scenarion for the weak, sick and vulnerable.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,049
    RodCrosby said:

    "Clinton may be the most corrupt person ever to seek the presidency of the USA..."

    Or maybe not.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    DanSmith said:

    AndyJS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It's going to be brutal for "remain" if Newham is at 40% turnout.

    My figures predict 74% Remain in Newham if England is 50/50. Seems a bit high: perhaps the formula is overegging the effect of the small percentage of white British people there.
    Are you assuming uniform turnout?
    Assuming a similar turnout to the general election in each area.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    "She needs to go to prison to pay for her crimes that she has already committed against the American people..."
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    PlatoSaid said:

    Guido
    Sources tell @AFP EU members states will meet next week to open Turkey membership talks: https://t.co/sMa3WR5BGs https://t.co/CiAtRIUhM2

    Are these the same accession talks that opened in 2005?
This discussion has been closed.