Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Nuneaton declaration, at about 2am, looks set to be the

SystemSystem Posts: 12,266
edited June 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Nuneaton declaration, at about 2am, looks set to be the first big pointer as to whether we are IN or OUT

Back at GE2015 I think I can claim to have been the first to have identified Nuneaton, amongst the seats likely to declare early, as being the one to look forward to. This was a key target for Labour and a win would have suggested that it could be heading to win most seats.

Read the full story here


«13456710

Comments

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,666
    Off topic: I'm 24 years old with 3 years no claims, and my best car insurance renewal for a 8 year old, 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta is still over £800!

    Maybe I should vote brexit for a chance of improvement!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896

    Off topic: I'm 24 years old with 3 years no claims, and my best car insurance renewal for a 8 year old, 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta is still over £800!

    Maybe I should vote brexit for a chance of improvement!

    Wasn’t it the ECJ that pushed the cost of insurance for young men down, but with a concomitant rise for young women?
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    Off topic: I'm 24 years old with 3 years no claims, and my best car insurance renewal for a 8 year old, 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta is still over £800!

    Maybe I should vote brexit for a chance of improvement!

    ask Dr.Zuma
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,666

    Off topic: I'm 24 years old with 3 years no claims, and my best car insurance renewal for a 8 year old, 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta is still over £800!

    Maybe I should vote brexit for a chance of improvement!

    Wasn’t it the ECJ that pushed the cost of insurance for young men down, but with a concomitant rise for young women?
    In theory! In practice, I've seen no difference. My girlfriend's is far cheaper, with no no-claims at all!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PolhomeEditor: American economist who predicted 2008 crash issues Brexit warning ... https://t.co/GS8FflMrha

    @faisalislam: Roubini's view -significant as it explodes "economists are all EU-funded and uselessly failed to predict crash" meme https://t.co/QznOxAeiKn
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896
    edited June 2016

    Off topic: I'm 24 years old with 3 years no claims, and my best car insurance renewal for a 8 year old, 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta is still over £800!

    Maybe I should vote brexit for a chance of improvement!

    Wasn’t it the ECJ that pushed the cost of insurance for young men down, but with a concomitant rise for young women?
    In theory! In practice, I've seen no difference. My girlfriend's is far cheaper, with no no-claims at all!
    I’ve a grandson of 24, and a granddaughter of 27, with similar driving records. I’ll have to ask them.
    However, occupation makes a difference. Both of them found their costs reduced when they stopped being students.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Off topic: I'm 24 years old with 3 years no claims, and my best car insurance renewal for a 8 year old, 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta is still over £800!

    Maybe I should vote brexit for a chance of improvement!

    Wasn’t it the ECJ that pushed the cost of insurance for young men down, but with a concomitant rise for young women?
    In theory! In practice, I've seen no difference. My girlfriend's is far cheaper, with no no-claims at all!
    You could try self-identifying as female - it seems to work everywhere else?!

    All joking aside - if someone says that or is transgender - what do insurance firms do?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,161

    Off topic: I'm 24 years old with 3 years no claims, and my best car insurance renewal for a 8 year old, 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta is still over £800!

    Maybe I should vote brexit for a chance of improvement!

    Wasn’t it the ECJ that pushed the cost of insurance for young men down, but with a concomitant rise for young women?
    In theory! In practice, I've seen no difference. My girlfriend's is far cheaper, with no no-claims at all!
    If you are the same age and have the same car, then something is up.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,161
    PlatoSaid said:

    Off topic: I'm 24 years old with 3 years no claims, and my best car insurance renewal for a 8 year old, 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta is still over £800!

    Maybe I should vote brexit for a chance of improvement!

    Wasn’t it the ECJ that pushed the cost of insurance for young men down, but with a concomitant rise for young women?
    In theory! In practice, I've seen no difference. My girlfriend's is far cheaper, with no no-claims at all!
    You could try self-identifying as female - it seems to work everywhere else?!

    All joking aside - if someone says that or is transgender - what do insurance firms do?
    Is there even such an option when you fill out the form?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896
    You could try telling the firm you like the look of that you’ve got a cheaper quote elsewhere. That sometimes works!
  • Nuneaton? Got family there. If thats the bellweather then Remain are doomed
  • FPT.

    I'm calling it the Nigel Farage effect,

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/745001256217944068

    I'm calling it an outlier.

    Higher percentage of remainers than leavers to vote, come off it. Something is wrong there.
    I think this move is plausible, for the centre and left it's turning into more of a for/against Farage and right-wingery in general deal, whereas before it looked like an internal Tory family feud.
    How come there is not the slightest hint of it in the Yougov online poll which is more than twice the size of ORB and more recent (leave crossed over and took the lead in this poll).

    I'm beginning to think that the reason for this odd telephone/online effect is because with online the person being polled made the initial contact so knows who they are dealing with whereas on phone a stranger contacts them out of the blue so they are far more guarded.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,666
    RobD said:

    Off topic: I'm 24 years old with 3 years no claims, and my best car insurance renewal for a 8 year old, 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta is still over £800!

    Maybe I should vote brexit for a chance of improvement!

    Wasn’t it the ECJ that pushed the cost of insurance for young men down, but with a concomitant rise for young women?
    In theory! In practice, I've seen no difference. My girlfriend's is far cheaper, with no no-claims at all!
    If you are the same age and have the same car, then something is up.
    Not the same car, but we are the same age. She has a 1.0 litre Citroen C1 and I have a 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta. I'd expect them to equal out or be close considering my no claims discount, but apparently not.

    My car is just statistically a bad one. It's gone up the last two years, despite no accidents or convictions.

    I'm sure insurance tax going up doesn't help!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,713

    Off topic: I'm 24 years old with 3 years no claims, and my best car insurance renewal for a 8 year old, 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta is still over £800!

    Maybe I should vote brexit for a chance of improvement!

    Wasn’t it the ECJ that pushed the cost of insurance for young men down, but with a concomitant rise for young women?
    In theory! In practice, I've seen no difference. My girlfriend's is far cheaper, with no no-claims at all!
    If your girlfriend is not on your insurance you could ask for a quote with her on it.

    Bizarrely that might actuallly reduce the over all costs, my daughter went on her boyfriends car ( similar ages to yourself ) and the quote came out lower by about £150
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,249

    You could try telling the firm you like the look of that you’ve got a cheaper quote elsewhere. That sometimes works!

    Agree - NEVER accept the automatic renewal quote - I always get cheaper (often with the same firm) by applying online then talking to someone and sounding reluctant.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    FPT

    This is supposedly a betting site, I posted a couple of weeks ago that with the exception of a handful very few on here have the foggiest understanding of betting. In the chart at the top Leave are ahead in 9 of 16 polls yet can be backed at 3/1. I've no idea what the outcome will be but anybody backing Remain at around 1/4 is a guesser.

    They may well collect but backing 1/4 shots on the toss of a coin is the road to certain ruin.

    Remain are a similar price to Germany beating N.Ireland tonight.

    A point on this Curtice chap and 40/45%, does he think that is what Leave will get in terms of % votes or does he think that is the probability of Leave winning? Plenty don't understand the difference, perhaps he doesn't.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,999
    Betfair Brexit market has now topped £42m traded, which makes it according to their own release, the biggest political event on their exchange's history, passing the 2012 US presidential (£40m).

    They are a bit ambiguous as to whether it's the biggest market or the biggest event - there are/were subsidiary markets too though these in the EURef are all much smaller (I don't have the figures for the 2012POTUSE). Even so, £1.23m has been traded on the EURef turnout, which for a political market is still sizable.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,999

    FPT

    This is supposedly a betting site, I posted a couple of weeks ago that with the exception of a handful very few on here have the foggiest understanding of betting. In the chart at the top Leave are ahead in 9 of 16 polls yet can be backed at 3/1. I've no idea what the outcome will be but anybody backing Remain at around 1/4 is a guesser.

    They may well collect but backing 1/4 shots on the toss of a coin is the road to certain ruin.

    Remain are a similar price to Germany beating N.Ireland tonight.

    A point on this Curtice chap and 40/45%, does he think that is what Leave will get in terms of % votes or does he think that is the probability of Leave winning? Plenty don't understand the difference, perhaps he doesn't.

    40% is about where the odds for Leave should be, in my opinion.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,161
    edited June 2016

    FPT

    This is supposedly a betting site, I posted a couple of weeks ago that with the exception of a handful very few on here have the foggiest understanding of betting. In the chart at the top Leave are ahead in 9 of 16 polls yet can be backed at 3/1. I've no idea what the outcome will be but anybody backing Remain at around 1/4 is a guesser.

    They may well collect but backing 1/4 shots on the toss of a coin is the road to certain ruin.

    Remain are a similar price to Germany beating N.Ireland tonight.

    A point on this Curtice chap and 40/45%, does he think that is what Leave will get in terms of % votes or does he think that is the probability of Leave winning? Plenty don't understand the difference, perhaps he doesn't.

    Yes, they may have been ahead in 9 of the 16 most recent polls, but only in 1 of the 4 most recent. That may somewhat explain the odds. Then you have to believe the polls are accurate, or that there won't be a swing to Remain on the day.

    Oh, and I'm sure he knows the difference between probability of winning, and percentage share of vote.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,367

    I've just read the Hilton quote about Cameron being told by the CS in 2012 that it was impossible to reduce immigration to 100,000 while we were in the EU. Yet it became "no ifs, no buts" and in the 2015 Tory manifesto.

    Yes, I know it's politics, so lying is to be expected, but this was so blatant. It's shows the derision in which they must hold the voters. We're too thick anyway so we won't notice. And it's a good soundbite.

    I notice it's now become an 'ambition', and in two years time, it will always have been only an ambition. You're got a faulty memory, obviously. Would any Cameron supporter like to defend this?
    .
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    Not sure looking halfway down the list of "Leave" or "Remain" is statistically valid. For example, suppose the top 80% of Leave constituencies were all 50.1 Leave, 49.9% Remain and then the other 20% were all 60% Remain, 40% Leave. The "bellweather" in the middle wouldn't tell you much.

    Again, this is because this is a referendum, not a constituency-based GE.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited June 2016
    Trump's price for the nomination has lengthened not due to the assassination attempt but because Paul Ryan has said he wouldn't do anything to stop a nomination coup at the convention if some kind of within the rules loophole was found *wink*
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    FPT

    This is supposedly a betting site, I posted a couple of weeks ago that with the exception of a handful very few on here have the foggiest understanding of betting. In the chart at the top Leave are ahead in 9 of 16 polls yet can be backed at 3/1. I've no idea what the outcome will be but anybody backing Remain at around 1/4 is a guesser.

    They may well collect but backing 1/4 shots on the toss of a coin is the road to certain ruin.

    Remain are a similar price to Germany beating N.Ireland tonight.

    A point on this Curtice chap and 40/45%, does he think that is what Leave will get in terms of % votes or does he think that is the probability of Leave winning? Plenty don't understand the difference, perhaps he doesn't.

    John Curtice has been responsible for the exit polls at the last 3 GEs, all of which have been devastatingly accurate. I'd say he knows what he's talking about.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756
    RobD said:

    FPT

    This is supposedly a betting site, I posted a couple of weeks ago that with the exception of a handful very few on here have the foggiest understanding of betting. In the chart at the top Leave are ahead in 9 of 16 polls yet can be backed at 3/1. I've no idea what the outcome will be but anybody backing Remain at around 1/4 is a guesser.

    They may well collect but backing 1/4 shots on the toss of a coin is the road to certain ruin.

    Remain are a similar price to Germany beating N.Ireland tonight.

    A point on this Curtice chap and 40/45%, does he think that is what Leave will get in terms of % votes or does he think that is the probability of Leave winning? Plenty don't understand the difference, perhaps he doesn't.

    Yes, they may have been ahead in 9 of the 16 most recent polls, but only in 1 of the 4 most recent. That may somewhat explain the odds. Then you have to believe the polls are accurate, or that there won't be a swing to Remain on the day.

    Oh, and I'm sure he knows the difference between probability of winning, and percentage share of vote.
    At every point, the betting markets have overreacted to good news for Remain, and under reacted to good news for Leave. If the polls are correct, it's still very tight, whereas betting markets are implying a Remain lead of 55/45 or so.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    FPT

    This is supposedly a betting site, I posted a couple of weeks ago that with the exception of a handful very few on here have the foggiest understanding of betting. In the chart at the top Leave are ahead in 9 of 16 polls yet can be backed at 3/1. I've no idea what the outcome will be but anybody backing Remain at around 1/4 is a guesser.

    They may well collect but backing 1/4 shots on the toss of a coin is the road to certain ruin.

    Remain are a similar price to Germany beating N.Ireland tonight.

    A point on this Curtice chap and 40/45%, does he think that is what Leave will get in terms of % votes or does he think that is the probability of Leave winning? Plenty don't understand the difference, perhaps he doesn't.

    Yes, they may have been ahead in 9 of the 16 most recent polls, but only in 1 of the 4 most recent. That may somewhat explain the odds. Then you have to believe the polls are accurate, or that there won't be a swing to Remain on the day.

    Oh, and I'm sure he knows the difference between probability of winning, and percentage share of vote.
    At every point, the betting markets have overreacted to good news for Remain, and under reacted to good news for Leave. If the polls are correct, it's still very tight, whereas betting markets are implying a Remain lead of 55/45 or so.
    That's not far away from the Curtice poll last night. But I do think Remain have some serious catching up to do: postal votes are heavily Leave, I should think.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,249
    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    FPT

    This is supposedly a betting site, I posted a couple of weeks ago that with the exception of a handful very few on here have the foggiest understanding of betting. In the chart at the top Leave are ahead in 9 of 16 polls yet can be backed at 3/1. I've no idea what the outcome will be but anybody backing Remain at around 1/4 is a guesser.

    They may well collect but backing 1/4 shots on the toss of a coin is the road to certain ruin.

    Remain are a similar price to Germany beating N.Ireland tonight.

    A point on this Curtice chap and 40/45%, does he think that is what Leave will get in terms of % votes or does he think that is the probability of Leave winning? Plenty don't understand the difference, perhaps he doesn't.

    Yes, they may have been ahead in 9 of the 16 most recent polls, but only in 1 of the 4 most recent. That may somewhat explain the odds. Then you have to believe the polls are accurate, or that there won't be a swing to Remain on the day.

    Oh, and I'm sure he knows the difference between probability of winning, and percentage share of vote.
    At every point, the betting markets have overreacted to good news for Remain, and under reacted to good news for Leave. If the polls are correct, it's still very tight, whereas betting markets are implying a Remain lead of 55/45 or so.
    That may because REMAIN have fewer, bigger, betters, while LEAVE betters are more numerous but stake less per bet.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,161
    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    FPT

    This is supposedly a betting site, I posted a couple of weeks ago that with the exception of a handful very few on here have the foggiest understanding of betting. In the chart at the top Leave are ahead in 9 of 16 polls yet can be backed at 3/1. I've no idea what the outcome will be but anybody backing Remain at around 1/4 is a guesser.

    They may well collect but backing 1/4 shots on the toss of a coin is the road to certain ruin.

    Remain are a similar price to Germany beating N.Ireland tonight.

    A point on this Curtice chap and 40/45%, does he think that is what Leave will get in terms of % votes or does he think that is the probability of Leave winning? Plenty don't understand the difference, perhaps he doesn't.

    Yes, they may have been ahead in 9 of the 16 most recent polls, but only in 1 of the 4 most recent. That may somewhat explain the odds. Then you have to believe the polls are accurate, or that there won't be a swing to Remain on the day.

    Oh, and I'm sure he knows the difference between probability of winning, and percentage share of vote.
    At every point, the betting markets have overreacted to good news for Remain, and under reacted to good news for Leave. If the polls are correct, it's still very tight, whereas betting markets are implying a Remain lead of 55/45 or so.
    Which is what I meant by my point about believing polls, and that there wouldn't be a swing to Remain on the day, which may all be priced in.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    @blackburn63

    FTP Prof Curtis reckons there is a 40-45% chance thar Leave will win. Doesn't strike me as unreasonable (i'd probably peg it at 33% personally
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,257

    FPT

    This is supposedly a betting site, I posted a couple of weeks ago that with the exception of a handful very few on here have the foggiest understanding of betting. In the chart at the top Leave are ahead in 9 of 16 polls yet can be backed at 3/1. I've no idea what the outcome will be but anybody backing Remain at around 1/4 is a guesser.

    They may well collect but backing 1/4 shots on the toss of a coin is the road to certain ruin.

    Remain are a similar price to Germany beating N.Ireland tonight.

    A point on this Curtice chap and 40/45%, does he think that is what Leave will get in terms of % votes or does he think that is the probability of Leave winning? Plenty don't understand the difference, perhaps he doesn't.

    40% is about where the odds for Leave should be, in my opinion.
    That sounds about right.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    You could try telling the firm you like the look of that you’ve got a cheaper quote elsewhere. That sometimes works!

    Agree - NEVER accept the automatic renewal quote - I always get cheaper (often with the same firm) by applying online then talking to someone and sounding reluctant.
    That's sound advice. I saved £300 a couple of years ago by moving!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756
    Jobabob said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    FPT

    This is supposedly a betting site, I posted a couple of weeks ago that with the exception of a handful very few on here have the foggiest understanding of betting. In the chart at the top Leave are ahead in 9 of 16 polls yet can be backed at 3/1. I've no idea what the outcome will be but anybody backing Remain at around 1/4 is a guesser.

    They may well collect but backing 1/4 shots on the toss of a coin is the road to certain ruin.

    Remain are a similar price to Germany beating N.Ireland tonight.

    A point on this Curtice chap and 40/45%, does he think that is what Leave will get in terms of % votes or does he think that is the probability of Leave winning? Plenty don't understand the difference, perhaps he doesn't.

    Yes, they may have been ahead in 9 of the 16 most recent polls, but only in 1 of the 4 most recent. That may somewhat explain the odds. Then you have to believe the polls are accurate, or that there won't be a swing to Remain on the day.

    Oh, and I'm sure he knows the difference between probability of winning, and percentage share of vote.
    At every point, the betting markets have overreacted to good news for Remain, and under reacted to good news for Leave. If the polls are correct, it's still very tight, whereas betting markets are implying a Remain lead of 55/45 or so.
    That's not far away from the Curtice poll last night. But I do think Remain have some serious catching up to do: postal votes are heavily Leave, I should think.
    While the Nat Centre poll is very interesting, it's also dated. Mind you, I wouldn't be surprised by a 53/47 win for Remain.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Off topic: I'm 24 years old with 3 years no claims, and my best car insurance renewal for a 8 year old, 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta is still over £800!

    Maybe I should vote brexit for a chance of improvement!

    Wasn’t it the ECJ that pushed the cost of insurance for young men down, but with a concomitant rise for young women?
    In theory! In practice, I've seen no difference. My girlfriend's is far cheaper, with no no-claims at all!
    If your girlfriend is not on your insurance you could ask for a quote with her on it.

    Bizarrely that might actuallly reduce the over all costs, my daughter went on her boyfriends car ( similar ages to yourself ) and the quote came out lower by about £150
    Generally having women on the insurance makes it cheaper as insurance firms think that men with female partners are less likely to drive aggressively. For similar reasons in reverse, red cars are more expensive to insure.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    FPT

    This is supposedly a betting site, I posted a couple of weeks ago that with the exception of a handful very few on here have the foggiest understanding of betting. In the chart at the top Leave are ahead in 9 of 16 polls yet can be backed at 3/1. I've no idea what the outcome will be but anybody backing Remain at around 1/4 is a guesser.

    They may well collect but backing 1/4 shots on the toss of a coin is the road to certain ruin.

    Remain are a similar price to Germany beating N.Ireland tonight.

    A point on this Curtice chap and 40/45%, does he think that is what Leave will get in terms of % votes or does he think that is the probability of Leave winning? Plenty don't understand the difference, perhaps he doesn't.

    Yes, they may have been ahead in 9 of the 16 most recent polls, but only in 1 of the 4 most recent. That may somewhat explain the odds. Then you have to believe the polls are accurate, or that there won't be a swing to Remain on the day.

    Oh, and I'm sure he knows the difference between probability of winning, and percentage share of vote.
    At every point, the betting markets have overreacted to good news for Remain, and under reacted to good news for Leave. If the polls are correct, it's still very tight, whereas betting markets are implying a Remain lead of 55/45 or so.
    That may because REMAIN have fewer, bigger, betters, while LEAVE betters are more numerous but stake less per bet.
    I think that's correct.
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    Jobabob said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    FPT

    This is supposedly a betting site, I posted a couple of weeks ago that with the exception of a handful very few on here have the foggiest understanding of betting. In the chart at the top Leave are ahead in 9 of 16 polls yet can be backed at 3/1. I've no idea what the outcome will be but anybody backing Remain at around 1/4 is a guesser.

    They may well collect but backing 1/4 shots on the toss of a coin is the road to certain ruin.

    Remain are a similar price to Germany beating N.Ireland tonight.

    A point on this Curtice chap and 40/45%, does he think that is what Leave will get in terms of % votes or does he think that is the probability of Leave winning? Plenty don't understand the difference, perhaps he doesn't.

    Yes, they may have been ahead in 9 of the 16 most recent polls, but only in 1 of the 4 most recent. That may somewhat explain the odds. Then you have to believe the polls are accurate, or that there won't be a swing to Remain on the day.

    Oh, and I'm sure he knows the difference between probability of winning, and percentage share of vote.
    At every point, the betting markets have overreacted to good news for Remain, and under reacted to good news for Leave. If the polls are correct, it's still very tight, whereas betting markets are implying a Remain lead of 55/45 or so.
    That's not far away from the Curtice poll last night. But I do think Remain have some serious catching up to do: postal votes are heavily Leave, I should think.
    Yes, every one thinks this, including me. However there is absolutely no factual evidence to back this up. Be aware of accepting widely held opinion as fact.

    In terms of where the market are it, it's hard to marry it with polling. i suspect it's becoming quite disconnected with the fundamentals, it's of a size where the sheer weight of money already in the market is driving things. People attempting to cover positions or minimise loses. Perhaps even some profit taking.

    At some point, people attempt to buy "free money" by backing a short priced favourite driving it way below value. As the price plummets, others rush in thinking there much be reasons behind it. Typical betfair "mug rush" behaviour to be avoided at any cost.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    Jobabob said:

    You could try telling the firm you like the look of that you’ve got a cheaper quote elsewhere. That sometimes works!

    Agree - NEVER accept the automatic renewal quote - I always get cheaper (often with the same firm) by applying online then talking to someone and sounding reluctant.
    That's sound advice. I saved £300 a couple of years ago by moving!
    I'm sure there must be a technical reason for it but it is curious nevertheless. Do our existing insurers think we are lazy or stupid (or both)?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Jobabob said:

    Off topic: I'm 24 years old with 3 years no claims, and my best car insurance renewal for a 8 year old, 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta is still over £800!

    Maybe I should vote brexit for a chance of improvement!

    Wasn’t it the ECJ that pushed the cost of insurance for young men down, but with a concomitant rise for young women?
    In theory! In practice, I've seen no difference. My girlfriend's is far cheaper, with no no-claims at all!
    If your girlfriend is not on your insurance you could ask for a quote with her on it.

    Bizarrely that might actuallly reduce the over all costs, my daughter went on her boyfriends car ( similar ages to yourself ) and the quote came out lower by about £150
    Generally having women on the insurance makes it cheaper as insurance firms think that men with female partners are less likely to drive aggressively. For similar reasons in reverse, red cars are more expensive to insure.
    In California they call it "citation red" - blondes in red convertibles are statistically significantly more likely to be pulled over by the CHP than any other class of driver

    I wonder why that could be?
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    TOPPING said:

    Jobabob said:

    You could try telling the firm you like the look of that you’ve got a cheaper quote elsewhere. That sometimes works!

    Agree - NEVER accept the automatic renewal quote - I always get cheaper (often with the same firm) by applying online then talking to someone and sounding reluctant.
    That's sound advice. I saved £300 a couple of years ago by moving!
    I'm sure there must be a technical reason for it but it is curious nevertheless. Do our existing insurers think we are lazy or stupid (or both)?
    They're no different from any other private company. If they can charge more for a service they provide and people are willing to pay it, they will.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,611
    TOPPING said:

    Jobabob said:

    You could try telling the firm you like the look of that you’ve got a cheaper quote elsewhere. That sometimes works!

    Agree - NEVER accept the automatic renewal quote - I always get cheaper (often with the same firm) by applying online then talking to someone and sounding reluctant.
    That's sound advice. I saved £300 a couple of years ago by moving!
    I'm sure there must be a technical reason for it but it is curious nevertheless. Do our existing insurers think we are lazy or stupid (or both)?
    Yes. They rely on inertia and direct debits.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    CD13 said:


    I've just read the Hilton quote about Cameron being told by the CS in 2012 that it was impossible to reduce immigration to 100,000 while we were in the EU. Yet it became "no ifs, no buts" and in the 2015 Tory manifesto.

    Yes, I know it's politics, so lying is to be expected, but this was so blatant. It's shows the derision in which they must hold the voters. We're too thick anyway so we won't notice. And it's a good soundbite.

    I notice it's now become an 'ambition', and in two years time, it will always have been only an ambition. You're got a faulty memory, obviously. Would any Cameron supporter like to defend this?
    .

    Hilton on Sky carefully avoided directly calling Cameron a liar - but the message was very clear, Dave's a liar.

    The Guardian has countered with George Soros saying it'll be another ERM mess with knobs on. I'm more intrigued as to why Soros isn't keeping this to himself. He made billions back in the 90s on just that one day alone.

    And we've a thwarted suicide bomber attack in Belgium. Glad I don't live there.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855
    edited June 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    CD13 said:


    I've just read the Hilton quote about Cameron being told by the CS in 2012 that it was impossible to reduce immigration to 100,000 while we were in the EU. Yet it became "no ifs, no buts" and in the 2015 Tory manifesto.

    Yes, I know it's politics, so lying is to be expected, but this was so blatant. It's shows the derision in which they must hold the voters. We're too thick anyway so we won't notice. And it's a good soundbite.

    I notice it's now become an 'ambition', and in two years time, it will always have been only an ambition. You're got a faulty memory, obviously. Would any Cameron supporter like to defend this?
    .

    Hilton on Sky carefully avoided directly calling Cameron a liar - but the message was very clear, Dave's a liar.

    The Guardian has countered with George Soros saying it'll be another ERM mess with knobs on. I'm more intrigued as to why Soros isn't keeping this to himself. He made billions back in the 90s on just that one day alone.

    And we've a thwarted suicide bomber attack in Belgium. Glad I don't live there.
    Perhaps soros is just bored with money now
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,611

    Jobabob said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    FPT

    This is supposedly a betting site, I posted a couple of weeks ago that with the exception of a handful very few on here have the foggiest understanding of betting. In the chart at the top Leave are ahead in 9 of 16 polls yet can be backed at 3/1. I've no idea what the outcome will be but anybody backing Remain at around 1/4 is a guesser.

    They may well collect but backing 1/4 shots on the toss of a coin is the road to certain ruin.

    Remain are a similar price to Germany beating N.Ireland tonight.

    A point on this Curtice chap and 40/45%, does he think that is what Leave will get in terms of % votes or does he think that is the probability of Leave winning? Plenty don't understand the difference, perhaps he doesn't.

    Yes, they may have been ahead in 9 of the 16 most recent polls, but only in 1 of the 4 most recent. That may somewhat explain the odds. Then you have to believe the polls are accurate, or that there won't be a swing to Remain on the day.

    Oh, and I'm sure he knows the difference between probability of winning, and percentage share of vote.
    At every point, the betting markets have overreacted to good news for Remain, and under reacted to good news for Leave. If the polls are correct, it's still very tight, whereas betting markets are implying a Remain lead of 55/45 or so.
    That's not far away from the Curtice poll last night. But I do think Remain have some serious catching up to do: postal votes are heavily Leave, I should think.
    Yes, every one thinks this, including me. However there is absolutely no factual evidence to back this up. Be aware of accepting widely held opinion as fact.

    In terms of where the market are it, it's hard to marry it with polling. i suspect it's becoming quite disconnected with the fundamentals, it's of a size where the sheer weight of money already in the market is driving things. People attempting to cover positions or minimise loses. Perhaps even some profit taking.

    At some point, people attempt to buy "free money" by backing a short priced favourite driving it way below value. As the price plummets, others rush in thinking there much be reasons behind it. Typical betfair "mug rush" behaviour to be avoided at any cost.
    In the last week it's been possible on Betfair to back Leave at 3/1 and Remain at 4/6. That's free money on either result.

    I think of the referendum as like a cricket match, as it progresses the prices move up and down, the mo year is to be made in calling the peaks and troughs. And at least the referendum won't finish in a draw!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,243
    John Curtice has also done a list of the areas most and least likely to vote leave. I was given a slightly potted version of this last night. His estimate is that if there is something close to parity overall then Dumfries & Galloway should be 50:50 and Bradford 51% leave. Cambridge, in his estimation will only vote 19% leave and Boston should vote 69% leave.

    I don't have the complete list but he is expecting every single Scottish result to favour Leave.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,611
    edited June 2016
    Jobabob said:

    Off topic: I'm 24 years old with 3 years no claims, and my best car insurance renewal for a 8 year old, 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta is still over £800!

    Maybe I should vote brexit for a chance of improvement!

    Wasn’t it the ECJ that pushed the cost of insurance for young men down, but with a concomitant rise for young women?
    In theory! In practice, I've seen no difference. My girlfriend's is far cheaper, with no no-claims at all!
    If your girlfriend is not on your insurance you could ask for a quote with her on it.

    Bizarrely that might actuallly reduce the over all costs, my daughter went on her boyfriends car ( similar ages to yourself ) and the quote came out lower by about £150
    Generally having women on the insurance makes it cheaper as insurance firms think that men with female partners are less likely to drive aggressively. For similar reasons in reverse, red cars are more expensive to insure.
    I'll remember that when I buy my Ferrari - get it in blue or black, and add the wife to the policy even if she's never going to drive it! ;)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,243
    Sandpit said:

    Jobabob said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    FPT

    This is supposedly a betting site, I posted a couple of weeks ago that with the exception of a handful very few on here have the foggiest understanding of betting. In the chart at the top Leave are ahead in 9 of 16 polls yet can be backed at 3/1. I've no idea what the outcome will be but anybody backing Remain at around 1/4 is a guesser.

    They may well collect but backing 1/4 shots on the toss of a coin is the road to certain ruin.

    Remain are a similar price to Germany beating N.Ireland tonight.

    A point on this Curtice chap and 40/45%, does he think that is what Leave will get in terms of % votes or does he think that is the probability of Leave winning? Plenty don't understand the difference, perhaps he doesn't.

    Yes, they may have been ahead in 9 of the 16 most recent polls, but only in 1 of the 4 most recent. That may somewhat explain the odds. Then you have to believe the polls are accurate, or that there won't be a swing to Remain on the day.

    Oh, and I'm sure he knows the difference between probability of winning, and percentage share of vote.
    At every point, the betting markets have overreacted to good news for Remain, and under reacted to good news for Leave. If the polls are correct, it's still very tight, whereas betting markets are implying a Remain lead of 55/45 or so.
    That's not far away from the Curtice poll last night. But I do think Remain have some serious catching up to do: postal votes are heavily Leave, I should think.
    Yes, every one thinks this, including me. However there is absolutely no factual evidence to back this up. Be aware of accepting widely held opinion as fact.

    In terms of where the market are it, it's hard to marry it with polling. i suspect it's becoming quite disconnected with the fundamentals, it's of a size where the sheer weight of money already in the market is driving things. People attempting to cover positions or minimise loses. Perhaps even some profit taking.

    At some point, people attempt to buy "free money" by backing a short priced favourite driving it way below value. As the price plummets, others rush in thinking there much be reasons behind it. Typical betfair "mug rush" behaviour to be avoided at any cost.
    In the last week it's been possible on Betfair to back Leave at 3/1 and Remain at 4/6. That's free money on either result.

    I think of the referendum as like a cricket match, as it progresses the prices move up and down, the mo year is to be made in calling the peaks and troughs. And at least the referendum won't finish in a draw!
    Yep, laying the draw is definitely good advice this time.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Good morning, everyone.

    Not long now, until the Austrian Grand Prix. Nice fast circuit. Interesting to see how Ferrari do, with their improved engine. McLaren will hate it.

    Nuneaton is becoming a bit of a fixture. I wonder if money will change things on Betfair more rapidly (if it's good for Leave, assuming Remain still is favourite) than at the General Election.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,611
    PlatoSaid said:

    CD13 said:


    I've just read the Hilton quote about Cameron being told by the CS in 2012 that it was impossible to reduce immigration to 100,000 while we were in the EU. Yet it became "no ifs, no buts" and in the 2015 Tory manifesto.

    Yes, I know it's politics, so lying is to be expected, but this was so blatant. It's shows the derision in which they must hold the voters. We're too thick anyway so we won't notice. And it's a good soundbite.

    I notice it's now become an 'ambition', and in two years time, it will always have been only an ambition. You're got a faulty memory, obviously. Would any Cameron supporter like to defend this?
    .

    Hilton on Sky carefully avoided directly calling Cameron a liar - but the message was very clear, Dave's a liar.

    The Guardian has countered with George Soros saying it'll be another ERM mess with knobs on. I'm more intrigued as to why Soros isn't keeping this to himself. He made billions back in the 90s on just that one day alone.

    And we've a thwarted suicide bomber attack in Belgium. Glad I don't live there.
    Most of us remember two things about "Black Wednesday". One was the dramatic cut in interest rates that followed, signalling the start of a 15 year boom. The other is that George Soros made a fortune on that day by laying the pound!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I see Melanie Phillips has made her own contribution towards dispelling the myth that Leavers are unhinged.
  • shadsyshadsy Posts: 289
    edited June 2016
    My extremely unreliable guesswork based formula makes Nuneaton about 20/1 to vote REMAIN at the moment.

    EDIT- got it the wrong way around first time
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,243
    The other thing I found surprising on the list was that on a 50:50 basis he is forecasting Northern Ireland to be 53% leave. I thought Northern Ireland was much more committed to remain.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855
    shadsy said:

    My extremely unreliable guesswork based formula makes Nuneaton about 20/1 to vote Leave at the moment.

    Unreliable guesswork? That's my favourite kind. Sold.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    FPT

    This is supposedly a betting site, I posted a couple of weeks ago that with the exception of a handful very few on here have the foggiest understanding of betting. In the chart at the top Leave are ahead in 9 of 16 polls yet can be backed at 3/1. I've no idea what the outcome will be but anybody backing Remain at around 1/4 is a guesser.

    They may well collect but backing 1/4 shots on the toss of a coin is the road to certain ruin.

    Remain are a similar price to Germany beating N.Ireland tonight.

    A point on this Curtice chap and 40/45%, does he think that is what Leave will get in terms of % votes or does he think that is the probability of Leave winning? Plenty don't understand the difference, perhaps he doesn't.

    Yes, they may have been ahead in 9 of the 16 most recent polls, but only in 1 of the 4 most recent. That may somewhat explain the odds. Then you have to believe the polls are accurate, or that there won't be a swing to Remain on the day.

    Oh, and I'm sure he knows the difference between probability of winning, and percentage share of vote.
    At every point, the betting markets have overreacted to good news for Remain, and under reacted to good news for Leave. If the polls are correct, it's still very tight, whereas betting markets are implying a Remain lead of 55/45 or so.
    That may because REMAIN have fewer, bigger, betters, while LEAVE betters are more numerous but stake less per bet.
    So if Remain have the bigger betters who are the layers on betfair?

    My earlier post mentioned people who don't understand betting.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    I don't think this has been posted yet - guardian article on the difference between bookies and polls

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/21/who-can-you-trust-on-the-eu-referendum-the-pollsters-or-the-bookies
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,611
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Jobabob said:

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    FPT

    Yes, they may have been ahead in 9 of the 16 most recent polls, but only in 1 of the 4 most recent. That may somewhat explain the odds. Then you have to believe the polls are accurate, or that there won't be a swing to Remain on the day.

    Oh, and I'm sure he knows the difference between probability of winning, and percentage share of vote.
    At every point, the betting markets have overreacted to good news for Remain, and under reacted to good news for Leave. If the polls are correct, it's still very tight, whereas betting markets are implying a Remain lead of 55/45 or so.
    That's not far away from the Curtice poll last night. But I do think Remain have some serious catching up to do: postal votes are heavily Leave, I should think.
    Yes, every one thinks this, including me. However there is absolutely no factual evidence to back this up. Be aware of accepting widely held opinion as fact.

    In terms of where the market are it, it's hard to marry it with polling. i suspect it's becoming quite disconnected with the fundamentals, it's of a size where the sheer weight of money already in the market is driving things. People attempting to cover positions or minimise loses. Perhaps even some profit taking.

    At some point, people attempt to buy "free money" by backing a short priced favourite driving it way below value. As the price plummets, others rush in thinking there much be reasons behind it. Typical betfair "mug rush" behaviour to be avoided at any cost.
    In the last week it's been possible on Betfair to back Leave at 3/1 and Remain at 4/6. That's free money on either result.

    I think of the referendum as like a cricket match, as it progresses the prices move up and down, the mo year is to be made in calling the peaks and troughs. And at least the referendum won't finish in a draw!
    Yep, laying the draw is definitely good advice this time.
    Yeah! I was in meetings all day last Monday, while desparately following the Lords weather and trying to find enough cash to stick on the short-odds draw I'd not thought possible a couple of days earlier. Just about got away with it!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,428
    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    CD13 said:


    I've just read the Hilton quote about Cameron being told by the CS in 2012 that it was impossible to reduce immigration to 100,000 while we were in the EU. Yet it became "no ifs, no buts" and in the 2015 Tory manifesto.

    Yes, I know it's politics, so lying is to be expected, but this was so blatant. It's shows the derision in which they must hold the voters. We're too thick anyway so we won't notice. And it's a good soundbite.

    I notice it's now become an 'ambition', and in two years time, it will always have been only an ambition. You're got a faulty memory, obviously. Would any Cameron supporter like to defend this?
    .

    Hilton on Sky carefully avoided directly calling Cameron a liar - but the message was very clear, Dave's a liar.

    The Guardian has countered with George Soros saying it'll be another ERM mess with knobs on. I'm more intrigued as to why Soros isn't keeping this to himself. He made billions back in the 90s on just that one day alone.

    And we've a thwarted suicide bomber attack in Belgium. Glad I don't live there.
    Most of us remember two things about "Black Wednesday". One was the dramatic cut in interest rates that followed, signalling the start of a 15 year boom. The other is that George Soros made a fortune on that day by laying the pound!
    Soros mentioned interest rates in the article. The Government wing be able to reduce interest rates this time because they are almost zero anyway. That's why he thinks it will be much worse this time.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    CD13 said:


    I've just read the Hilton quote about Cameron being told by the CS in 2012 that it was impossible to reduce immigration to 100,000 while we were in the EU. Yet it became "no ifs, no buts" and in the 2015 Tory manifesto.

    Yes, I know it's politics, so lying is to be expected, but this was so blatant. It's shows the derision in which they must hold the voters. We're too thick anyway so we won't notice. And it's a good soundbite.

    I notice it's now become an 'ambition', and in two years time, it will always have been only an ambition. You're got a faulty memory, obviously. Would any Cameron supporter like to defend this?
    .

    Hilton on Sky carefully avoided directly calling Cameron a liar - but the message was very clear, Dave's a liar.

    The Guardian has countered with George Soros saying it'll be another ERM mess with knobs on. I'm more intrigued as to why Soros isn't keeping this to himself. He made billions back in the 90s on just that one day alone.

    And we've a thwarted suicide bomber attack in Belgium. Glad I don't live there.
    Most of us remember two things about "Black Wednesday". One was the dramatic cut in interest rates that followed, signalling the start of a 15 year boom. The other is that George Soros made a fortune on that day by laying the pound!
    Soros is saying that because our economy is debt riddled and with piddly interest rates, it'll be tougher. I'm not sure how much such a story will resonate. As you say, if you were there for Black Wednesday - it was Major's intransigence/desperate attempts to catch a falling knife that lead to Soros almost breaking the BoE.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,611

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not long now, until the Austrian Grand Prix. Nice fast circuit. Interesting to see how Ferrari do, with their improved engine. McLaren will hate it.

    Nuneaton is becoming a bit of a fixture. I wonder if money will change things on Betfair more rapidly (if it's good for Leave, assuming Remain still is favourite) than at the General Election.

    Given that the Austrian track is the Red Bull Ring, you would have thought that the drinks company might have had the corners reprofiled to make the circuit more advantageous to their team. As it is, they'll probably struggle to make Q3.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756
    DavidL said:

    The other thing I found surprising on the list was that on a 50:50 basis he is forecasting Northern Ireland to be 53% leave. I thought Northern Ireland was much more committed to remain.

    It looks as if Unionists are now shifting very heavily towards Leave.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783

    Nuneaton? Got family there. If thats the bellweather then Remain are doomed

    Agreed. It will be a big Leave vote there.

  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    DavidL said:

    The other thing I found surprising on the list was that on a 50:50 basis he is forecasting Northern Ireland to be 53% leave. I thought Northern Ireland was much more committed to remain.

    That fits closely to a couple of recent local NI polls.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Nuneaton won't be decisive because the best Remain areas will deliver circa 80% for them, whereas I struggle to see areas going more than 70% Leave. The 80% Remain areas will also be some of the largest counting areas.
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited June 2016
    There are ten million votes in London, Scotland, Gibraltar and NI.

    There are thirty six million voters in rest of England and Wales.

    If all the voters in London, Scotland, NI and Gib vote remain it would still be overturned by 63.8% of rest of Englands voters voting leave.

    If 70% of Scotland, Ni, London and Gib vote remain then it needs just 55.5% of people in rest of England and Wales need to vote leave to win.

    If 60% of Scotland, NI, London and Gib vote remain then just 52.7% rest of England need to vote leave to win.

    If 55% then just 51.3%

    It is England and Wales outside London that is key to this.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783
    CD13 said:


    I've just read the Hilton quote about Cameron being told by the CS in 2012 that it was impossible to reduce immigration to 100,000 while we were in the EU. Yet it became "no ifs, no buts" and in the 2015 Tory manifesto.

    Yes, I know it's politics, so lying is to be expected, but this was so blatant. It's shows the derision in which they must hold the voters. We're too thick anyway so we won't notice. And it's a good soundbite.

    I notice it's now become an 'ambition', and in two years time, it will always have been only an ambition. You're got a faulty memory, obviously. Would any Cameron supporter like to defend this?

    Anyone who believed that immigration pledge was a fool. That does not excuse the lying. But plenty of people pointed out that it was a lie.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,721
    Nuneaton will surely comfortably vote Leave, if Leave cannot win Nuneaton they may as well pack up and go home. Plenty of white working class voters there. Of the earlier declarations areas like Sunderland and Nuneaton should vote Leave and Wandsworth Remain if they do we know it could be close, if not one side has a clear lead
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Bellwether*.

    Finickity, but the 'wether' actually refers to a castrated ram. One with a bell would lead the flock around, hence the term.

    Mr. Sandpit, the upgraded Renault engine is a step up from where it was, though still third fastest. I expect they'll make Q3 but they won't be at the sharp end.

    Williams could be worth watching.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    Charles said:

    @blackburn63

    FTP Prof Curtis reckons there is a 40-45% chance thar Leave will win. Doesn't strike me as unreasonable (i'd probably peg it at 33% personally

    Adjusting for the drop in the value of the betting token if you win probably takes away about half the difference between your estimate and the Betfair price.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    CD13 said:


    I've just read the Hilton quote about Cameron being told by the CS in 2012 that it was impossible to reduce immigration to 100,000 while we were in the EU. Yet it became "no ifs, no buts" and in the 2015 Tory manifesto.

    Yes, I know it's politics, so lying is to be expected, but this was so blatant. It's shows the derision in which they must hold the voters. We're too thick anyway so we won't notice. And it's a good soundbite.

    I notice it's now become an 'ambition', and in two years time, it will always have been only an ambition. You're got a faulty memory, obviously. Would any Cameron supporter like to defend this?
    .

    Was it "no ifs, no buts" in 2015? I'm pretty sure it was an ambition then.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,723

    RobD said:

    Off topic: I'm 24 years old with 3 years no claims, and my best car insurance renewal for a 8 year old, 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta is still over £800!

    Maybe I should vote brexit for a chance of improvement!

    Wasn’t it the ECJ that pushed the cost of insurance for young men down, but with a concomitant rise for young women?
    In theory! In practice, I've seen no difference. My girlfriend's is far cheaper, with no no-claims at all!
    If you are the same age and have the same car, then something is up.
    Not the same car, but we are the same age. She has a 1.0 litre Citroen C1 and I have a 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta. I'd expect them to equal out or be close considering my no claims discount, but apparently not.

    My car is just statistically a bad one. It's gone up the last two years, despite no accidents or convictions.

    I'm sure insurance tax going up doesn't help!
    go onto the web compare sites and you will get lots of quotes , you can then use them or go direct to the suppliers site. Some huge differences.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,243
    FF43 said:

    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    CD13 said:


    .

    .
    Most of us remember two things about "Black Wednesday". One was the dramatic cut in interest rates that followed, signalling the start of a 15 year boom. The other is that George Soros made a fortune on that day by laying the pound!
    Soros mentioned interest rates in the article. The Government wing be able to reduce interest rates this time because they are almost zero anyway. That's why he thinks it will be much worse this time.
    I think the real vulnerability that we face this time is the very limited room for fiscal adjustment by the government given the size of the deficit that we have going in. Even allowing the normal adjusters of less tax and more benefit spending is quite problematic when you start from where we are now. There is a serious risk that the market would not be willing to lend on attractive terms in such a scenario forcing the government into counter-cyclical measures which would be extremely unpleasant.

    But I am sure that those who kept claiming that the deficit was not important knew what they were talking about.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,611
    kle4 said:

    shadsy said:

    My extremely unreliable guesswork based formula makes Nuneaton about 20/1 to vote Leave at the moment.

    Unreliable guesswork? That's my favourite kind. Sold.
    We like bookies with unreliable guesswork! ;)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855
    edited June 2016
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    The other thing I found surprising on the list was that on a 50:50 basis he is forecasting Northern Ireland to be 53% leave. I thought Northern Ireland was much more committed to remain.

    It looks as if Unionists are now shifting very heavily towards Leave.
    Troubling for remain. NI isn't solid, Wales isn't solid, they're reliant on young people coming out in droves. Leave are definitely a better chance than is thought. England with Wales , excluding London, is going to be heavily leave.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    My suggestion:-

    L E
    E V
    A
    E V
    L E
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,666
    2 Large 'Vote Leave' banners appeared today on the A19 near Sunderland both northbound and southbound. Right next to the Nissan factory!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    FPT

    This is supposedly a betting site, I posted a couple of weeks ago that with the exception of a handful very few on here have the foggiest understanding of betting. In the chart at the top Leave are ahead in 9 of 16 polls yet can be backed at 3/1. I've no idea what the outcome will be but anybody backing Remain at around 1/4 is a guesser.

    They may well collect but backing 1/4 shots on the toss of a coin is the road to certain ruin.

    Remain are a similar price to Germany beating N.Ireland tonight.

    A point on this Curtice chap and 40/45%, does he think that is what Leave will get in terms of % votes or does he think that is the probability of Leave winning? Plenty don't understand the difference, perhaps he doesn't.

    Yes, they may have been ahead in 9 of the 16 most recent polls, but only in 1 of the 4 most recent. That may somewhat explain the odds. Then you have to believe the polls are accurate, or that there won't be a swing to Remain on the day.

    Oh, and I'm sure he knows the difference between probability of winning, and percentage share of vote.
    At every point, the betting markets have overreacted to good news for Remain, and under reacted to good news for Leave. If the polls are correct, it's still very tight, whereas betting markets are implying a Remain lead of 55/45 or so.
    That may because REMAIN have fewer, bigger, betters, while LEAVE betters are more numerous but stake less per bet.
    So if Remain have the bigger betters who are the layers on betfair?

    My earlier post mentioned people who don't understand betting.
    Or it is people who don't trust the polls betting. Remember that almost every referendum always sees a swing back to the status quo. Factor that in and there have been very few Leave leads and many substantial Remain ones.

    If you are confident that will happen. Big IF that.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    My suggestion:-


    L E
    E V
    A
    E V
    L E
    :love:
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,243
    edited June 2016
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    The other thing I found surprising on the list was that on a 50:50 basis he is forecasting Northern Ireland to be 53% leave. I thought Northern Ireland was much more committed to remain.

    It looks as if Unionists are now shifting very heavily towards Leave.
    Well presumably that is what his modelling reflects but I was unaware of it. I had thought that this was London, Scotland, some university cities and NI against the rest. Looks like Remain are scratching 1 from the team sheet.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    CD13 said:


    .

    .
    Most of us remember two things about "Black Wednesday". One was the dramatic cut in interest rates that followed, signalling the start of a 15 year boom. The other is that George Soros made a fortune on that day by laying the pound!
    Soros mentioned interest rates in the article. The Government wing be able to reduce interest rates this time because they are almost zero anyway. That's why he thinks it will be much worse this time.
    I think the real vulnerability that we face this time is the very limited room for fiscal adjustment by the government given the size of the deficit that we have going in. Even allowing the normal adjusters of less tax and more benefit spending is quite problematic when you start from where we are now. There is a serious risk that the market would not be willing to lend on attractive terms in such a scenario forcing the government into counter-cyclical measures which would be extremely unpleasant.

    But I am sure that those who kept claiming that the deficit was not important knew what they were talking about.
    I'm not modest, so modesty doesn't forbid me:

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/07/alastair-meeks-on-how-conservative-leavers-could-gift-labour-the-next-election/
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,367
    Ms Plato,

    All successful politician lie, but they don't usually say "No ifs, no buts," and I don't expect them to apologise.

    But ...

    "Matilda told such awful lies, it made one gasp and stretch one's eyes.
    Her aunt, who from her earliest youth, had kept a strict regard for truth,
    attempted to believe Matilda. The effort very nearly killed her."

    The next stage will be ... "He never said that exactly, it was an ambition."

    Joe Anderson (Liverpool mayor) is fretting about the level of immigration, but is suggesting we stay in and change some of the basic tenets of the EU. He's not stupid, so he knows he's talking bollocks, but it's not lying. It's called happy to be fooled? No, he knows he suggesting something that won't happen but it's not a lie.

    Our Mr P (cut and paste) is honest. I can respect him for that. I believe we need controlled immigration, not uncontrolled immigration, but that's my subjective opinion only. I respect politicians who tell the truth. Frank Field is one, but like Jezza the loon, it is also his downfall.

    Dave is an excellent politician, as was Blair, but they always go too far. Is it Hubris?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    What a shit Michael Gove is.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    The other thing I found surprising on the list was that on a 50:50 basis he is forecasting Northern Ireland to be 53% leave. I thought Northern Ireland was much more committed to remain.

    It looks as if Unionists are now shifting very heavily towards Leave.
    Troubling for remain. NI isn't solid, Wales isn't solid, they're reliant on young people coming out in droves. Leave are definitely a better chance than is thought. England else's, excluding London, is going to be heavily leave.
    If Unionists go 80/20 Leave and Nationalists and Others go 90/10 Remain, that gives 54/46 Remain overall.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    I can't work out a damn thing from the polls. But I can observe how the campaign has affected me. Before and for a lot of the early stages I really didn't give it much thought. I have never been a fan of the EU but leaving it never really crossed my mind as an option. But having been forced to consider it seriously I have come round to regarding it as an institution that has a positive role and that which we really shouldn't either take for granted or ignore. We should be in there trying to make it work. If we do come out I'll be keen to get back in again as soon as possible, and will cast my vote accordingly.

    I have no idea if I am a one off - but I wonder if the creation of a very strong pro-European faction will be one of the results of the referendum? If so, this might be a story that is going to carry on even if leave wins on Thursday.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Car Insurance:-

    Add your girlfriend to your insurance as a second driver, will often reduce your insurance.

    Try Direct Line, see what they offer you.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,611
    edited June 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    CD13 said:


    I've just read the Hilton quote about Cameron being told by the CS in 2012 that it was impossible to reduce immigration to 100,000 while we were in the EU. Yet it became "no ifs, no buts" and in the 2015 Tory manifesto.

    Yes, I know it's politics, so lying is to be expected, but this was so blatant. It's shows the derision in which they must hold the voters. We're too thick anyway so we won't notice. And it's a good soundbite.

    I notice it's now become an 'ambition', and in two years time, it will always have been only an ambition. You're got a faulty memory, obviously. Would any Cameron supporter like to defend this?
    .

    Hilton on Sky carefully avoided directly calling Cameron a liar - but the message was very clear, Dave's a liar.

    The Guardian has countered with George Soros saying it'll be another ERM mess with knobs on. I'm more intrigued as to why Soros isn't keeping this to himself. He made billions back in the 90s on just that one day alone.

    And we've a thwarted suicide bomber attack in Belgium. Glad I don't live there.
    Most of us remember two things about "Black Wednesday". One was the dramatic cut in interest rates that followed, signalling the start of a 15 year boom. The other is that George Soros made a fortune on that day by laying the pound!
    Soros is saying that because our economy is debt riddled and with piddly interest rates, it'll be tougher. I'm not sure how much such a story will resonate. As you say, if you were there for Black Wednesday - it was Major's intransigence/desperate attempts to catch a falling knife that lead to Soros almost breaking the BoE.
    If the economy is riddled with debt and low interest rates, almost all that's left is to devalue the currency. This would encourage local manufacturing and exporting while increasing the price of imports, making them less attractive. Would probably cause some welcome short term inflation as the economy rebalanced too. I'm struggling to see the massive downside here, although I will admit to being paid in dollars and having a mortgage in sterling!

    I'd also imagine that the GBP/EUR rate won't change an awful lot. If we vote to leave then both will fall against the USD and YEN
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    DavidL said:

    John Curtice has also done a list of the areas most and least likely to vote leave. I was given a slightly potted version of this last night. His estimate is that if there is something close to parity overall then Dumfries & Galloway should be 50:50 and Bradford 51% leave. Cambridge, in his estimation will only vote 19% leave and Boston should vote 69% leave.

    I don't have the complete list but he is expecting every single Scottish result to favour Leave.

    Every Scottish result to favour Leave? That seems impossible.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855
    CD13 said:

    Ms Plato,

    All successful politician lie, but they don't usually say "No ifs, no buts," and I don't expect them to apologise.

    But ...

    "Matilda told such awful lies, it made one gasp and stretch one's eyes.
    Her aunt, who from her earliest youth, had kept a strict regard for truth,
    attempted to believe Matilda. The effort very nearly killed her."

    The next stage will be ... "He never said that exactly, it was an ambition."

    Joe Anderson (Liverpool mayor) is fretting about the level of immigration, but is suggesting we stay in and change some of the basic tenets of the EU. He's not stupid, so he knows he's talking bollocks, but it's not lying. It's called happy to be fooled? No, he knows he suggesting something that won't happen but it's not a lie.

    Our Mr P (cut and paste) is honest. I can respect him for that. I believe we need controlled immigration, not uncontrolled immigration, but that's my subjective opinion only. I respect politicians who tell the truth. Frank Field is one, but like Jezza the loon, it is also his downfall.

    Dave is an excellent politician, as was Blair, but they always go too far. Is it Hubris?

    Rolling the dice one too many times.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,297
    Is there a market for most council areas/most votes? How would we price up the following (most councils/most votes);

    1. Remain/Remain
    2. Leave/Leave
    3. Leave/Remain
    4. Remain/Leave

    I guess that this isn't as interesting as it's a binary choice meaning that it is unlikely that three or four will happen. But my instinct tells me that three is more likely than four.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DavidL said:

    John Curtice has also done a list of the areas most and least likely to vote leave. I was given a slightly potted version of this last night. His estimate is that if there is something close to parity overall then Dumfries & Galloway should be 50:50 and Bradford 51% leave. Cambridge, in his estimation will only vote 19% leave and Boston should vote 69% leave.

    I don't have the complete list but he is expecting every single Scottish result to favour Leave.

    Scotland - is that a typo? If not surely thats huge news
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,658
    In my opinion we'll pretty much know by Sunderland. This isn't a GE :p

    But yes Nuneaton is important !
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    There's supposed to be a Northern Irish poll out in the Sun NI today, but it doesn't seem to be online yet.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,666
    2 Large 'Vote Leave' banners appeared today on the A19 near Sunderland both northbound and southbound. Right next to the Nissan factory!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,243
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    John Curtice has also done a list of the areas most and least likely to vote leave. I was given a slightly potted version of this last night. His estimate is that if there is something close to parity overall then Dumfries & Galloway should be 50:50 and Bradford 51% leave. Cambridge, in his estimation will only vote 19% leave and Boston should vote 69% leave.

    I don't have the complete list but he is expecting every single Scottish result to favour Leave.

    Scotland - is that a typo? If not surely thats huge news
    Sorry, that is indeed a typo. I meant every Scottish area will vote remain. Edinburgh only has 27% leave which is amongst the lowest in the country, right down there with Islington.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    The other thing I found surprising on the list was that on a 50:50 basis he is forecasting Northern Ireland to be 53% leave. I thought Northern Ireland was much more committed to remain.

    It looks as if Unionists are now shifting very heavily towards Leave.
    Troubling for remain. NI isn't solid, Wales isn't solid, they're reliant on young people coming out in droves. Leave are definitely a better chance than is thought. England else's, excluding London, is going to be heavily leave.
    If Unionists go 80/20 Leave and Nationalists and Others go 90/10 Remain, that gives 54/46 Remain overall.
    I'll trust your math, but remain will not winengland outside London, they need to rack up as many big wins elsewhere as much as they can, even though sheer numbers are not high.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,658
    HYUFD said:

    Nuneaton will surely comfortably vote Leave, if Leave cannot win Nuneaton they may as well pack up and go home. Plenty of white working class voters there. Of the earlier declarations areas like Sunderland and Nuneaton should vote Leave and Wandsworth Remain if they do we know it could be close, if not one side has a clear lead

    If Wandsworth heads leave, it is all over too :p
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    John Curtice has also done a list of the areas most and least likely to vote leave. I was given a slightly potted version of this last night. His estimate is that if there is something close to parity overall then Dumfries & Galloway should be 50:50 and Bradford 51% leave. Cambridge, in his estimation will only vote 19% leave and Boston should vote 69% leave.

    I don't have the complete list but he is expecting every single Scottish result to favour Leave.

    Scotland - is that a typo? If not surely thats huge news
    Dumfries & Galloway isn't representative of Scotland. It's the only district in Scotland that I'd expect to be very close.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,721
    A more likely swing area than Nuneaton is Oldham which also declares about 2am, northern but lots of ethnic minorities and has had a LD MP not too long ago, Remain should have a chance there if they are to win nationally. Stirling will be one of the first Scottish results and Remain need a big lead though while Leave will want big leads in Essex areas like Harlow and Basildon. Barking and Dagenham could be closer, London but plenty of white working class and ethnic minorities
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    Off topic: I'm 24 years old with 3 years no claims, and my best car insurance renewal for a 8 year old, 1.2 litre Ford Fiesta is still over £800!

    Maybe I should vote brexit for a chance of improvement!

    Interestingly it was an EU decision that forced insurers to rate males and females the same for motor insurance. So: good news if you're a man, bad news if you're a woman.

    (It was also an EU edict that forced the regulation of insurance by the FSA (now FCA) with the result that you get about ten tons of paper when you buy an insurance policy.)

    This amount of paper is going to increase in August when the CMA forces all insurance companies offering a protected no claims bonus to disclose the notional cost, the discount you get for the protected bonus, the number of claims for which you get protection and the step-back bonus scale if you don't buy the product.

    No one really wants to know all this, they just want the cheapest, rubbishy cover they can find.

    As a broker, I will have to submit ALL the no claims bonus scales of every company I use to the CMA - despite them getting exactly the same information from 3000 other brokers.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,243
    RoyalBlue said:

    DavidL said:

    John Curtice has also done a list of the areas most and least likely to vote leave. I was given a slightly potted version of this last night. His estimate is that if there is something close to parity overall then Dumfries & Galloway should be 50:50 and Bradford 51% leave. Cambridge, in his estimation will only vote 19% leave and Boston should vote 69% leave.

    I don't have the complete list but he is expecting every single Scottish result to favour Leave.

    Every Scottish result to favour Leave? That seems impossible.
    Sorry, not enough coffee yet.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855
    People thought it woukd be a hung parliament and the expected Nuneaton result would be good for labour. People think remain will win, so presumably don't think leave will do well. I think they're wrong.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,721

    There are ten million votes in London, Scotland, Gibraltar and NI.

    There are thirty six million voters in rest of England and Wales.

    If all the voters in London, Scotland, NI and Gib vote remain it would still be overturned by 63.8% of rest of Englands voters voting leave.

    If 70% of Scotland, Ni, London and Gib vote remain then it needs just 55.5% of people in rest of England and Wales need to vote leave to win.

    If 60% of Scotland, NI, London and Gib vote remain then just 52.7% rest of England need to vote leave to win.

    If 55% then just 51.3%

    It is England and Wales outside London that is key to this.

    Scotland will be over 60% Remain
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    CD13 said:

    Ms Plato,

    All successful politician lie, but they don't usually say "No ifs, no buts," and I don't expect them to apologise.

    But ...

    "Matilda told such awful lies, it made one gasp and stretch one's eyes.
    Her aunt, who from her earliest youth, had kept a strict regard for truth,
    attempted to believe Matilda. The effort very nearly killed her."

    The next stage will be ... "He never said that exactly, it was an ambition."

    Joe Anderson (Liverpool mayor) is fretting about the level of immigration, but is suggesting we stay in and change some of the basic tenets of the EU. He's not stupid, so he knows he's talking bollocks, but it's not lying. It's called happy to be fooled? No, he knows he suggesting something that won't happen but it's not a lie.

    Our Mr P (cut and paste) is honest. I can respect him for that. I believe we need controlled immigration, not uncontrolled immigration, but that's my subjective opinion only. I respect politicians who tell the truth. Frank Field is one, but like Jezza the loon, it is also his downfall.

    Dave is an excellent politician, as was Blair, but they always go too far. Is it Hubris?

    I'd forgotten Matilda! I was always struck by Shock Haired Peter. Those old tales were really rather :open_mouth:

    http://io9.gizmodo.com/5913747/the-best-scenes-from-the-most-demented-german-childrens-book-ever-published
This discussion has been closed.