Good evening. Long time lurker speaking up for the 1st time (well I have posted a couple of times previously in the last ten years, so not quite true).
I've been thinking over the last few hours, whether the (perceived?) over-coverage of Jo Cox's death will have a detrimental effect on the Remain campaign? Similar to the way that 'Project Fear' and their repeated warnings have apparently made some voters lean towards leave?
The death of an MP in such a manner is rare, however it is not without precedent. Thinking about the reaction to the Brighton hotel bombing and the murder of Airey Neave, I have an impression there was far less publicised grief than there is today. Maybe this is related to 24 hours news channels?
Over-coverage of her murder so close to the referendum, while making repeated assertions of 'what Jo believed' may make people believe her murder is being exploited for political reasons and out of disgust, vote leave or not vote all (presuming that they were going to vote remain)
Welcome James.
In the past hour I have heard Stephen Kinnock politicising Jo Cox's death, and reports of Cameron politicising her death.
Desperate stuff from Remain. They should be ashamed.
I'd have a little more sympathy for Leave if I hadn't read posts on here on the day of her murder discussing how it shouldn't be allowed to change the narrative of the referendum. Then the day after she died leavers whinging about the cessation in campaigning and the media covering her death too much for their tastes. So before you chucking stones in that particular glasshouse stop and think how desperate that was. Funny because I don't recall many Leavers objecting to the coverage of Lee Rigsby being murdered or the Paris or Brussels atrocities. Do you?
Sky news saying there is going to be a worldwide tribute event to Jo Cox centred on Trafalgar Square at 4.00pm on Wednesday 22nd June to celebrate her life's work and all she stood for.
Decidedly Diana-esque, it has to be said. Some might say Sheffield-esque.
Presumably the cost will be included in the Remain campaigns returns...
Did PB really think REMAIN would try not to win the referendum? Did it think all its enemies were as easy as Ed Miliband? How naive.
I'd be interested to see an analysis of campaigning activity.
In my area the local Conservative MP has declared for Remain, but I'm not aware of him taking part in any local campaigning. There is a not-very-big Vote Leave effort locally, I've not come across any Remain activity.
(UKIP came 3rd/4th at the 2014 EU Parliament election in this area as I recall, so I'd expect this to be Remain leaning.)
The whole heated debate over the politicization of Jo Cox's death, and I am writing from the luxury of living in the States so not having to put up with the over-coverage, strikes me as desperation on both sides.
Desperate from Remain, as why else resort to this tastelessness.
Desperate from Leave, as if they didn't believe it might help Remain, they'd not care less about the politicization.
Politician gets killed for political motives and we are asked not to politicise it? Absolutely not. That is one straight out of the NRA playbook.
No. Even if he resigns / is No Confidenced after Thursday, he'll stay on as PM until there's a new Tory leader chosen.
Personally, I would expect him to stand down immediately if it's a Leave vote. I doubt his ego would allow him to stay on after he'd been formally lameduck'ed.
The Times today was speculating that Theresa May would be drafted in as a "caretaker leader" while a leadership contest goes on.
Did PB really think REMAIN would try not to win the referendum? Did it think all its enemies were as easy as Ed Miliband? How naive.
I'd be interested to see an analysis of campaigning activity.
In my area the local Conservative MP has declared for Remain, but I'm not aware of him taking part in any local campaigning. There is a not-very-big Vote Leave effort locally, I've not come across any Remain activity.
(UKIP came 3rd/4th at the 2014 EU Parliament election in this area as I recall, so I'd expect this to be Remain leaning.)
I would expect Reading to show a narrow Remain result.
I'm expecting it to go Remain by a decent margin, demographically it seems to me that it's heavy in the pro-remain types with relatively few older people compared to the areas around it.
Reading AFAIK has a large (circa 25%) foreign born workforce.
Lots of Americans given its got Microsoft, Oracle and bunch of other tech companies European HQs.
Good evening. Long time lurker speaking up for the 1st time (well I have posted a couple of times previously in the last ten years, so not quite true).
I've been thinking over the last few hours, whether the (perceived?) over-coverage of Jo Cox's death will have a detrimental effect on the Remain campaign? Similar to the way that 'Project Fear' and their repeated warnings have apparently made some voters lean towards leave?
The death of an MP in such a manner is rare, however it is not without precedent. Thinking about the reaction to the Brighton hotel bombing and the murder of Airey Neave, I have an impression there was far less publicised grief than there is today. Maybe this is related to 24 hours news channels?
Over-coverage of her murder so close to the referendum, while making repeated assertions of 'what Jo believed' may make people believe her murder is being exploited for political reasons and out of disgust, vote leave or not vote all (presuming that they were going to vote remain)
Welcome James.
In the past hour I have heard Stephen Kinnock politicising Jo Cox's death, and reports of Cameron politicising her death.
Desperate stuff from Remain. They should be ashamed.
I'd have a little more sympathy for Leave if I hadn't read posts on here on the day of her murder discussing how it shouldn't be allowed to change the narrative of the referendum. Then the day after she died leavers whinging about the cessation in campaigning and the media covering her death too much for their tastes. So before you chucking stones in that particular glasshouse stop and think how desperate that was. Funny because I don't recall many Leavers objecting to the coverage of Lee Rigsby being murdered or the Paris or Brussels atrocities. Do you?
I don't recall there being a referendum at the time.
Good evening. Long time lurker speaking up for the 1st time (well I have posted a couple of times previously in the last ten years, so not quite true).
I've been thinking over the last few hours, whether the (perceived?) over-coverage of Jo Cox's death will have a detrimental effect on the Remain campaign? Similar to the way that 'Project Fear' and their repeated warnings have apparently made some voters lean towards leave?
The death of an MP in such a manner is rare, however it is not without precedent. Thinking about the reaction to the Brighton hotel bombing and the murder of Airey Neave, I have an impression there was far less publicised grief than there is today. Maybe this is related to 24 hours news channels?
Over-coverage of her murder so close to the referendum, while making repeated assertions of 'what Jo believed' may make people believe her murder is being exploited for political reasons and out of disgust, vote leave or not vote all (presuming that they were going to vote remain)
Welcome James.
In the past hour I have heard Stephen Kinnock politicising Jo Cox's death, and reports of Cameron politicising her death.
Desperate stuff from Remain. They should be ashamed.
When the Leave campaign demonized 77 million Turks it was impossible for the campaigns to sink any lower.
James Kirkup, one of my favourite political journalists, has a good piece on the Cox murder and the referendum. The conclusion he comes to, that the more the focus is on Cox the less easy it will be for people to accept the result afterwards. I agree wholeheartedly but I don't think anyone is really thinking about Friday morning and the healing process, that can wait.
Did PB really think REMAIN would try not to win the referendum? Did it think all its enemies were as easy as Ed Miliband? How naive.
I'd be interested to see an analysis of campaigning activity.
In my area the local Conservative MP has declared for Remain, but I'm not aware of him taking part in any local campaigning. There is a not-very-big Vote Leave effort locally, I've not come across any Remain activity.
(UKIP came 3rd/4th at the 2014 EU Parliament election in this area as I recall, so I'd expect this to be Remain leaning.)
Leave need to organise an event at 4pm on Wednesday. They CANNOT allow Remain to seize media coverage as they have since Thursday.
That would look terrible. LEAVE have just got to sit back and let this play out. Maybe this will win the referendum for REMAIN and maybe it won't. Either way there is nothing to be done from LEAVE'S POV.
Despite all this I think leave may just win because of the postal votes but I like so many really have no idea
The whole heated debate over the politicization of Jo Cox's death, and I am writing from the luxury of living in the States so not having to put up with the over-coverage, strikes me as desperation on both sides.
Desperate from Remain, as why else resort to this tastelessness.
Desperate from Leave, as if they didn't believe it might help Remain, they'd not care less about the politicization.
Politician gets killed for political motives and we are asked not to politicise it? Absolutely not. That is one straight out of the NRA playbook.
Straying on to dangerous ground, but if mental health played no part then he should face the ultimate penalty. Simple as that.
Did PB really think REMAIN would try not to win the referendum? Did it think all its enemies were as easy as Ed Miliband? How naive.
I'd be interested to see an analysis of campaigning activity.
In my area the local Conservative MP has declared for Remain, but I'm not aware of him taking part in any local campaigning. There is a not-very-big Vote Leave effort locally, I've not come across any Remain activity.
(UKIP came 3rd/4th at the 2014 EU Parliament election in this area as I recall, so I'd expect this to be Remain leaning.)
Good evening. Long time lurker speaking up for the 1st time (well I have posted a couple of times previously in the last ten years, so not quite true).
I've been thinking over the last few hours, whether the (perceived?) over-coverage of Jo Cox's death will have a detrimental effect on the Remain campaign? Similar to the way that 'Project Fear' and their repeated warnings have apparently made some voters lean towards leave?
The death of an MP in such a manner is rare, however it is not without precedent. Thinking about the reaction to the Brighton hotel bombing and the murder of Airey Neave, I have an impression there was far less publicised grief than there is today. Maybe this is related to 24 hours news channels?
Over-coverage of her murder so close to the referendum, while making repeated assertions of 'what Jo believed' may make people believe her murder is being exploited for political reasons and out of disgust, vote leave or not vote all (presuming that they were going to vote remain)
Welcome James.
In the past hour I have heard Stephen Kinnock politicising Jo Cox's death, and reports of Cameron politicising her death.
Desperate stuff from Remain. They should be ashamed.
I'd have a little more sympathy for Leave if I hadn't read posts on here on the day of her murder discussing how it shouldn't be allowed to change the narrative of the referendum. Then the day after she died leavers whinging about the cessation in campaigning and the media covering her death too much for their tastes. So before you chucking stones in that particular glasshouse stop and think how desperate that was. Funny because I don't recall many Leavers objecting to the coverage of Lee Rigsby being murdered or the Paris or Brussels atrocities. Do you?
They weren't days before a major, one-off referendum.
So to summarise. A REMAIN MP goes on a boat in the Thames to protest and is sprayed with water by LEAVE supporters. Some time later she is murdered by a nutter who cried "Britain First" in front of eyewitnesses (some of whom have still not recanted despite Breitbart pressure) and who delivered a rant in court. And the current topic under discussion on PB is...
...whether she should be prosecuted for keeping her kids from school.
OK. You guys are weird
It's quite bizarre and they're going on and on and on - the level of sheer nastiness reads like a Britain First blog!
Good evening. Long time lurker speaking up for the 1st time (well I have posted a couple of times previously in the last ten years, so not quite true).
I've been thinking over the last few hours, whether the (perceived?) over-coverage of Jo Cox's death will have a detrimental effect on the Remain campaign? Similar to the way that 'Project Fear' and their repeated warnings have apparently made some voters lean towards leave?
The death of an MP in such a manner is rare, however it is not without precedent. Thinking about the reaction to the Brighton hotel bombing and the murder of Airey Neave, I have an impression there was far less publicised grief than there is today. Maybe this is related to 24 hours news channels?
Over-coverage of her murder so close to the referendum, while making repeated assertions of 'what Jo believed' may make people believe her murder is being exploited for political reasons and out of disgust, vote leave or not vote all (presuming that they were going to vote remain)
Welcome James.
In the past hour I have heard Stephen Kinnock politicising Jo Cox's death, and reports of Cameron politicising her death.
Desperate stuff from Remain. They should be ashamed.
I am so disappointed by the way this referendum campaign has trashed the political life of this country.
A frightful grief for the family of Jo Cox and I can't imagine how all this hoo-hah is going to make it easier on them.
This is a hugely important decision for the country to take, and the voters' concerns (and the voters themselves) have been denigrated & rubbished & trampled on by the powerful. They'll be all right, whatever happens, and that's their only concern. Sod the little people.
Sky News again confirming tribute on Wednesday including in Washington, New York, Nairobi, Brussels and elsewhere to celebrate her life and it has been organised by her family.
If it organised by her family leave them to it but I really doubt it will be anything that major just largely people who knew her through her charity work etc
Suspect Trafalgar square will be oacked, like Soho after Orlando.
I was at the local Islington tribute tonight, organised at 24 hours' notice - about 1500 people turned up, with speeches by Corbyn, Thornberry (the local MPs) and a parson, a rabbi, an imam and a priest. All unexpectionable speeches that virtually everyone here would have been OK with - no mention of Europe or Tories or politics generally, apart from stressing the importance of tolerating differences of opinion and culture. Plenty of respect for Jo without gushing.
I see a far-right group that I've never heard of (National Action) has called for a Brexit vote in honour of the killer. Unfortunately one can't choose one's supporters so I wouldn't blame Brexit for that. My comments for what they are worth: http://www.nickpalmer.org.uk/jo-cox/
Good evening. Long time lurker speaking up for the 1st time (well I have posted a couple of times previously in the last ten years, so not quite true).
I've been thinking over the last few hours, whether the (perceived?) over-coverage of Jo Cox's death will have a detrimental effect on the Remain campaign? Similar to the way that 'Project Fear' and their repeated warnings have apparently made some voters lean towards leave?
The death of an MP in such a manner is rare, however it is not without precedent. Thinking about the reaction to the Brighton hotel bombing and the murder of Airey Neave, I have an impression there was far less publicised grief than there is today. Maybe this is related to 24 hours news channels?
Over-coverage of her murder so close to the referendum, while making repeated assertions of 'what Jo believed' may make people believe her murder is being exploited for political reasons and out of disgust, vote leave or not vote all (presuming that they were going to vote remain)
Welcome James.
In the past hour I have heard Stephen Kinnock politicising Jo Cox's death, and reports of Cameron politicising her death.
Desperate stuff from Remain. They should be ashamed.
I'd have a little more sympathy for Leave if I hadn't read posts on here on the day of her murder discussing how it shouldn't be allowed to change the narrative of the referendum. Then the day after she died leavers whinging about the cessation in campaigning and the media covering her death too much for their tastes. So before you chucking stones in that particular glasshouse stop and think how desperate that was. Funny because I don't recall many Leavers objecting to the coverage of Lee Rigsby being murdered or the Paris or Brussels atrocities. Do you?
They weren't days before a major, one-off referendum.
News is news. And the first murder of an MP in Britain in a quarter of a century is very definitely news.
Leave need to organise an event at 4pm on Wednesday. They CANNOT allow Remain to seize media coverage as they have since Thursday.
That would look terrible. LEAVE have just got to sit back and let this play out. Maybe this will win the referendum for REMAIN and maybe it won't. Either way there is nothing to be done from LEAVE'S POV.
Despite all this I think leave may just win because of the postal votes but I like so many really have no idea
Postal votes are all elderly leavers
No we're not.
A few students and those working away but mainly the elderly
Sky News again confirming tribute on Wednesday including in Washington, New York, Nairobi, Brussels and elsewhere to celebrate her life and it has been organised by her family.
The family have very right to mourn this brutal and horrific murder in any which way they want to.
Good evening. Long time lurker speaking up for the 1st time (well I have posted a couple of times previously in the last ten years, so not quite true).
I've been thinking over the last few hours, whether the (perceived?) over-coverage of Jo Cox's death will have a detrimental effect on the Remain campaign? Similar to the way that 'Project Fear' and their repeated warnings have apparently made some voters lean towards leave?
The death of an MP in such a manner is rare, however it is not without precedent. Thinking about the reaction to the Brighton hotel bombing and the murder of Airey Neave, I have an impression there was far less publicised grief than there is today. Maybe this is related to 24 hours news channels?
Over-coverage of her murder so close to the referendum, while making repeated assertions of 'what Jo believed' may make people believe her murder is being exploited for political reasons and out of disgust, vote leave or not vote all (presuming that they were going to vote remain)
Welcome James.
In the past hour I have heard Stephen Kinnock politicising Jo Cox's death, and reports of Cameron politicising her death.
Desperate stuff from Remain. They should be ashamed.
But you're politicising Jo Cox's death too in making that remark.
Leave need to organise an event at 4pm on Wednesday. They CANNOT allow Remain to seize media coverage as they have since Thursday.
That would look terrible. LEAVE have just got to sit back and let this play out. Maybe this will win the referendum for REMAIN and maybe it won't. Either way there is nothing to be done from LEAVE'S POV.
Despite all this I think leave may just win because of the postal votes but I like so many really have no idea
Postal votes are all elderly leavers
No we're not.
A few students and those working away but mainly the elderly
I have made a point of not commenting on the politics or otherwise of the Cox murder as I find it distasteful from all sides.
But just as a general point, lots of people take their kids on protests when they don't expect there to be trouble. Just look at the Countryside Rally in London a decade or so ago or lots of other protests that have been held in London over the years. The only ones you would tend to avoid would be those where there was likely to be trouble on account of the age of the main body of protestors - students etc.
Taking kids out on a boat on the Thames if they are properly equipped and when protesting against fishermen - who I would contend would be the very last people to put anyone at risk on the water - seems like a very safe bet to me and certainly not something to be criticised.
At the very least in hindsight the kids got an exciting day out on a boat with their Mum and Dad as a happy memory before everything changed forever.
I would never criticise anyone - even with foresight or hindsight for that.
Sky news saying there is going to be a worldwide tribute event to Jo Cox centred on Trafalgar Square at 4.00pm on Wednesday 22nd June to celebrate her life's work and all she stood for.
madness
Ludicrous and entirely politically motivated to keep the tragedy in the news cycle
Of course
it's timed for the maximum referendum shroud waving on Wednesday, whereas Thursday the one week anniversary would make more sense.
Remain must be pumping this as their best chance to swing votes, but risky as it has the potential to backfire by pissing people off.
But Thursday is not her birthday, Wednesday is
Two points:
1) At your age, don't try to feign naivety.
2) Try to use punctuation properly. More people will read what you post.
One point - try to patronise less, more people will read what you post.
Actually that's a lie, the same numbers will, but that was still a pretty uppity way of telling someone they'd used punctuation incorrectly, I don't see what benefit it adds when done in that manner.
And wrong too: 'naivety' should have been followed by a '; and' rather than a full stop
Sky News again confirming tribute on Wednesday including in Washington, New York, Nairobi, Brussels and elsewhere to celebrate her life and it has been organised by her family.
If it organised by her family leave them to it but I really doubt it will be anything that major just largely people who knew her through her charity work etc
Suspect Trafalgar square will be oacked, like Soho after Orlando.
I was at the local Islington tribute tonight, organised at 24 hours' notice - about 1500 people turned up, with speeches by Corbyn, Thornberry (the local MPs) and a parson, a rabbi, an imam and a priest. All unexpectionable speeches that virtually everyone here would have been OK with - no mention of Europe or Tories or politics generally, apart from stressing the importance of tolerating differences of opinion and culture. Plenty of respect for Jo without gushing.
I see a far-right group that I've never heard of (National Action) has called for a Brexit vote in honour of the killer. Unfortunately one can't choose one's supporters so I wouldn't blame Brexit for that. My comments for what they are worth: http://www.nickpalmer.org.uk/jo-cox/
I am all for respecting differences of opinion. Alas this this referendum has been sour from the start. Calling people who want out little Englanders etc is not helpful. I'm sure there are plenty of examples both ways.
Good evening. Long time lurker speaking up for the 1st time (well I have posted a couple of times previously in the last ten years, so not quite true).
I've been thinking over the last few hours, whether the (perceived?) over-coverage of Jo Cox's death will have a detrimental effect on the Remain campaign? Similar to the way that 'Project Fear' and their repeated warnings have apparently made some voters lean towards leave?
The death of an MP in such a manner is rare, however it is not without precedent. Thinking about the reaction to the Brighton hotel bombing and the murder of Airey Neave, I have an impression there was far less publicised grief than there is today. Maybe this is related to 24 hours news channels?
Over-coverage of her murder so close to the referendum, while making repeated assertions of 'what Jo believed' may make people believe her murder is being exploited for political reasons and out of disgust, vote leave or not vote all (presuming that they were going to vote remain)
Welcome James.
In the past hour I have heard Stephen Kinnock politicising Jo Cox's death, and reports of Cameron politicising her death.
Desperate stuff from Remain. They should be ashamed.
I am so disappointed by the way this referendum campaign has trashed the political life of this country.
A frightful grief for the family of Jo Cox and I can't imagine how all this hoo-hah is going to make it easier on them.
This is a hugely important decision for the country to take, and the voters' concerns (and the voters themselves) have been denigrated & rubbished & trampled on by the powerful. They'll be all right, whatever happens, and that's their only concern. Sod the little people.
I don't remember when I've been so sick at heart.
Both sides have lied and misled. There has been virtually no discussion of things of genuine import, and instead we've been treated to the constant scare stories about Turkey and about some mythical three thousand quid we're all going to lose in 14 years time.
I have made a point of not commenting on the politics or otherwise of the Cox murder as I find it distasteful from all sides.
But just as a general point, lots of people take their kids on protests when they don't expect there to be trouble. Just look at the Countryside Rally in London a decade or so ago or lots of other protests that have been held in London over the years. The only ones you would tend to avoid would be those where there was likely to be trouble on account of the age of the main body of protestors - students etc.
Taking kids out on a boat on the Thames if they are properly equipped and when protesting against fishermen - who I would contend would be the very last people to put anyone at risk on the water - seems like a very safe bet to me and certainly not something to be criticised.
At the very least in hindsight the kids got an exciting day out on a boat with their Mum and Dad as a happy memory before everything changed forever.
I would never criticise anyone - even with foresight or hindsight for that.
That picture is from a Jo Cox tweet, where she says that her husband and children were on a boat in the Thames. (See: twitter.com/Jo_Cox1/status/743116090574839808/photo/1)
It seems to imply that the woman holding the "In" flag is not her.
So she left her children at risk in a protest, whilst hobnobbing with the stars on Gandolf's boat...
*ducks*
At risk? Their father was also in the boat and driving it, I really think such comments are in very poor taste
I have made a point of not commenting on the politics or otherwise of the Cox murder as I find it distasteful from all sides.
But just as a general point, lots of people take their kids on protests when they don't expect there to be trouble. Just look at the Countryside Rally in London a decade or so ago or lots of other protests that have been held in London over the years. The only ones you would tend to avoid would be those where there was likely to be trouble on account of the age of the main body of protestors - students etc.
Taking kids out on a boat on the Thames if they are properly equipped and when protesting against fishermen - who I would contend would be the very last people to put anyone at risk on the water - seems like a very safe bet to me and certainly not something to be criticised.
At the very least in hindsight the kids got an exciting day out on a boat with their Mum and Dad as a happy memory before everything changed forever.
I would never criticise anyone - even with foresight or hindsight for that.
Thank you - at least you can be relied on to post sensibly. I was beginning to despair.
Leave need to organise an event at 4pm on Wednesday. They CANNOT allow Remain to seize media coverage as they have since Thursday.
That would look terrible. LEAVE have just got to sit back and let this play out. Maybe this will win the referendum for REMAIN and maybe it won't. Either way there is nothing to be done from LEAVE'S POV.
Despite all this I think leave may just win because of the postal votes but I like so many really have no idea
Postal votes are all elderly leavers
No we're not.
A few students and those working away but mainly the elderly
No. Even if he resigns / is No Confidenced after Thursday, he'll stay on as PM until there's a new Tory leader chosen.
Personally, I would expect him to stand down immediately if it's a Leave vote. I doubt his ego would allow him to stay on after he'd been formally lameduck'ed.
The Times today was speculating that Theresa May would be drafted in as a "caretaker leader" while a leadership contest goes on.
He's been a lame duck since he announced his deferred retirement before the election. And if there is a need for a caretaker PM, it won't be any of the candidates - it's not in the interests of the non-PM candidates and I would expect the Palace (which still has some theoretical discretion in such a scenario), to want to avoid implicitly endorsing one. The best option by far, and the precedent from other similar cases, would be for the outgoing PM to stay on.
Leave need to organise an event at 4pm on Wednesday. They CANNOT allow Remain to seize media coverage as they have since Thursday.
That would look terrible. LEAVE have just got to sit back and let this play out. Maybe this will win the referendum for REMAIN and maybe it won't. Either way there is nothing to be done from LEAVE'S POV.
Despite all this I think leave may just win because of the postal votes but I like so many really have no idea
Postal votes are all elderly leavers
No we're not.
A few students and those working away but mainly the elderly
I have made a point of not commenting on the politics or otherwise of the Cox murder as I find it distasteful from all sides.
But just as a general point, lots of people take their kids on protests when they don't expect there to be trouble. Just look at the Countryside Rally in London a decade or so ago or lots of other protests that have been held in London over the years. The only ones you would tend to avoid would be those where there was likely to be trouble on account of the age of the main body of protestors - students etc.
Taking kids out on a boat on the Thames if they are properly equipped and when protesting against fishermen - who I would contend would be the very last people to put anyone at risk on the water - seems like a very safe bet to me and certainly not something to be criticised.
At the very least in hindsight the kids got an exciting day out on a boat with their Mum and Dad as a happy memory before everything changed forever.
I would never criticise anyone - even with foresight or hindsight for that.
Besides which the fishermen only sprayed with water, they would not have sunk the boats.
Sky News again confirming tribute on Wednesday including in Washington, New York, Nairobi, Brussels and elsewhere to celebrate her life and it has been organised by her family.
If it organised by her family leave them to it but I really doubt it will be anything that major just largely people who knew her through her charity work etc
I think it is going to be bigger than that - She was known by many through her International charity work - apparently Obama phoned her husband yesterday.
Sky news saying there is going to be a worldwide tribute event to Jo Cox centred on Trafalgar Square at 4.00pm on Wednesday 22nd June to celebrate her life's work and all she stood for.
madness
Just caught the end of the breaking news but it really is going global involving many countries around the globe. Still waiting for full details but it apparently is her birthday
There will probably be next to no coverage at all outside the UK, there was a statement from Hillary after the killing and a Canadian MP in Parliament and some coverage on the continent but few international news agencies will cover a minor rally outside their own country
I was surprised at the amount of international coverage her death got. It tied into a narrative of a referendum that had got very nasty. That might explain part of it.
Our media covered the Anna Lindh and Gabby Giffords shootings not any minor memorial rallies after
I see what you are saying. The event gets international media coverage but international commemorations of them don't, even when major.
However in this case it is likely there will be a lot of international coverage of the commemorations because journalists will be in London to cover the referendum. Jo Cox gives them something to talk about and they are not bound by bias concerns, unlike our public broadcasters.
It will get a small mention at the end of a report nothing more
Sky news saying there is going to be a worldwide tribute event to Jo Cox centred on Trafalgar Square at 4.00pm on Wednesday 22nd June to celebrate her life's work and all she stood for.
madness
Ludicrous and entirely politically motivated to keep the tragedy in the news cycle
Of course
it's timed for the maximum referendum shroud waving on Wednesday, whereas Thursday the one week anniversary would make more sense.
Remain must be pumping this as their best chance to swing votes, but risky as it has the potential to backfire by pissing people off.
But Thursday is not her birthday, Wednesday is
Two points:
1) At your age, don't try to feign naivety.
2) Try to use punctuation properly. More people will read what you post.
One point - try to patronise less, more people will read what you post.
Actually that's a lie, the same numbers will, but that was still a pretty uppity way of telling someone they'd used punctuation incorrectly, I don't see what benefit it adds when done in that manner.
And wrong too: 'naivety' should have been followed by a '; and' rather than a full stop
Probably the best and most informative post I have read on here this evening, not to mention the one in the best traditions of PB pedantry and humour.
I have been away for a few days and returned to find myself somewhat nauseated by the quality of posts of this once informative, interesting and amusing site. Some of you chaps should be ashamed of yourselves.
Good evening. Long time lurker speaking up for the 1st time (well I have posted a couple of times previously in the last ten years, so not quite true).
I've been thinking over the last few hours, whether the (perceived?) over-coverage of Jo Cox's death will have a detrimental effect on the Remain campaign? Similar to the way that 'Project Fear' and their repeated warnings have apparently made some voters lean towards leave?
The death of an MP in such a manner is rare, however it is not without precedent. Thinking about the reaction to the Brighton hotel bombing and the murder of Airey Neave, I have an impression there was far less publicised grief than there is today. Maybe this is related to 24 hours news channels?
Over-coverage of her murder so close to the referendum, while making repeated assertions of 'what Jo believed' may make people believe her murder is being exploited for political reasons and out of disgust, vote leave or not vote all (presuming that they were going to vote remain)
It was Project Fear which won it for No in Scotland and was moving the polls to Remain again last week even before the murder
I'm not necessarily disputing that, what I'm thinking is that could be a factor which produces a counter-swing to remain. It may be lost in the statistical noise, but what made me start thinking about it was a conservation with people my age (early-mid 20s) saying that they were getting really rather tired about hearing about the murder, what she was like as a person and what she believed in (I've not repeated this verbatim, more colourful language was used). These are people who I would term as soft remainers, they say they will vote remain, but I've not know them to vote religiously, I'm not sure if this will put them off from turning out all together. I know its an anecdote, but they seem very popular on here, so I'm joining the club.
What the polls show is Leave had a narrow lead last weekend Remain has a narrow lead this weekend so the only swing there has been has been to Remain, anecdote or no anecdote and of course campaigning has resumed today as shown with Cameron now on Question Time
Can we stop banging on about that boat. Its a non issue and dosen't make the people doing it look good.
Kids are wrapped in far too much cotton wool these days so good on them for doing it. They had lifejackets on so they were being responsible. End of.
I'm fuming about what I see is blatant Dianification for political end, but that dosent mean I agree with peddling such nonsense. The end dosent justify the means. Don't stoop to their level.
I have made a point of not commenting on the politics or otherwise of the Cox murder as I find it distasteful from all sides.
But just as a general point, lots of people take their kids on protests when they don't expect there to be trouble. Just look at the Countryside Rally in London a decade or so ago or lots of other protests that have been held in London over the years. The only ones you would tend to avoid would be those where there was likely to be trouble on account of the age of the main body of protestors - students etc.
Taking kids out on a boat on the Thames if they are properly equipped and when protesting against fishermen - who I would contend would be the very last people to put anyone at risk on the water - seems like a very safe bet to me and certainly not something to be criticised.
At the very least in hindsight the kids got an exciting day out on a boat with their Mum and Dad as a happy memory before everything changed forever.
I would never criticise anyone - even with foresight or hindsight for that.
The best way that one can honour her memory is to go out and vote on 23rd June, and to vote in what one considers to be the UK's best interest.
That picture is from a Jo Cox tweet, where she says that her husband and children were on a boat in the Thames. (See: h ttps://twitter.com/Jo_Cox1/status/743116090574839808/photo/1)
It seems to imply that the woman holding the "In" flag is not her.
The boat was also photographed from a different angle. You can find that shot here. In that shot everybody is clearly visible (tho her kids's faces have been pixilated). This article uses that shot and captions it as "Jo Cox pictured yesterday taking part in the Thames flotilla with her husband and two children". The picture is credited to "Pixel8000", the webname of the photographer Gavin Rodgers. You can find his website here
Sky news saying there is going to be a worldwide tribute event to Jo Cox centred on Trafalgar Square at 4.00pm on Wednesday 22nd June to celebrate her life's work and all she stood for.
madness
Ludicrous and entirely politically motivated to keep the tragedy in the news cycle
Of course
it's timed for the maximum referendum shroud waving on Wednesday, whereas Thursday the one week anniversary would make more sense.
Remain must be pumping this as their best chance to swing votes, but risky as it has the potential to backfire by pissing people off.
But Thursday is not her birthday, Wednesday is
Two points:
1) At your age, don't try to feign naivety.
2) Try to use punctuation properly. More people will read what you post.
One point - try to patronise less, more people will read what you post.
Actually that's a lie, the same numbers will, but that was still a pretty uppity way of telling someone they'd used punctuation incorrectly, I don't see what benefit it adds when done in that manner.
And wrong too: 'naivety' should have been followed by a '; and' rather than a full stop
Probably the best and most informative post I have read on here this evening, not to mention the one in the best traditions of PB pedantry and humour.
I have been away for a few days and returned to find myself somewhat nauseated by the quality of posts of this once informative, interesting and amusing site. Some of you chaps should be ashamed of yourselves.
As general point again. I do understand why this is such a bitter referendum campaign.
We are looking at this as a normal political war between established armies. It is not. This is a civil war where the people you hitherto regarded as your closest friends and allies turn out to be on the other side. Not only does this foster an atmosphere of betrayal but it also means that often you may know far more about your opponents and they know more about you than would normally be the case. It provides weapons that are not usually available and most of us (including myself) have little compunction about using them.
Those of us who have chosen opposing sides in this fight and have chosen to actually take the fight to the enemy do so because it is something that is fundamental to our view of the country, our nationality and our beliefs (I am applying that to both sides not just one) You do not just have a good argument, shake hands and walk away.
Civil wars are always the most divisive and take the longest time to recover from.
This is why things cannot and will not be the same afterwards.
Good evening. Long time lurker speaking up for the 1st time (well I have posted a couple of times previously in the last ten years, so not quite true).
I've been thinking over the last few hours, whether the (perceived?) over-coverage of Jo Cox's death will have a detrimental effect on the Remain campaign? Similar to the way that 'Project Fear' and their repeated warnings have apparently made some voters lean towards leave?
The death of an MP in such a manner is rare, however it is not without precedent. Thinking about the reaction to the Brighton hotel bombing and the murder of Airey Neave, I have an impression there was far less publicised grief than there is today. Maybe this is related to 24 hours news channels?
Over-coverage of her murder so close to the referendum, while making repeated assertions of 'what Jo believed' may make people believe her murder is being exploited for political reasons and out of disgust, vote leave or not vote all (presuming that they were going to vote remain)
Welcome James.
In the past hour I have heard Stephen Kinnock politicising Jo Cox's death, and reports of Cameron politicising her death.
Desperate stuff from Remain. They should be ashamed.
I am so disappointed by the way this referendum campaign has trashed the political life of this country.
A frightful grief for the family of Jo Cox and I can't imagine how all this hoo-hah is going to make it easier on them.
This is a hugely important decision for the country to take, and the voters' concerns (and the voters themselves) have been denigrated & rubbished & trampled on by the powerful. They'll be all right, whatever happens, and that's their only concern. Sod the little people.
I don't remember when I've been so sick at heart.
Both sides have lied and misled. There has been virtually no discussion of things of genuine import, and instead we've been treated to the constant scare stories about Turkey and about some mythical three thousand quid we're all going to lose in 14 years time.
The campaign has been distinguished by its lack of honesty, the absence of almost any rational let alone intellectual discourse, and now by the hysteria surrounding the murder of Jo Cox MP.
It has been a truly grisly & demeaning spectacle.
Every erosion of standard, every downward slip has been accompanied by some fool justifying it by saying, “Did you not expect Remain/Leave to Fight Hard”.
Yep, inevitable that some tasteless schmuck would run the "Vote Remain, it's what Jo would have wanted" line. That it was a Kinnock should really come as no surprise.
No one can doubt The Sunil on Sunday's shock and dismay at the murder of Jo Cox last week. And no one can possibly justify her killing either, whether or not the motive was political. But as the case is now sub judice, we will leave the judge and jury to decide exactly what the motive was, and what was heard and what was seen by eyewitnesses on that tragic day.
But we would like to remind our fans and readers that Mr. Mair is no more representative of the Brexiteers than Mr. Mateen in Orlando is representative of Muslims. Just because one lone nutter within a particular political or religious group carries out a heinous, barbaric assault against democracy and freedom, it doesn't mean we have to tar all members of the group with the same brush. We hope you will agree with us on that point at least!
For that reason, we urge all our fans and readers to take stock of poor Ms Cox's murder, by all means, but not to let that affect how they will vote this coming Thursday. Try not to lose sight of the bigger picture - our place in or out of Europe. If you happen to support the REMAIN side, fair play to you, sirs and madams! We will heartily disagree with you, but we will support your right to vote REMAIN without being branded unpatriotic. But we for our part still recommend a LEAVE vote, for the following reasons:
* Democracy - think about whether REMAINING or LEAVING will be helpful or a hindrance to the democratic process
* Sovereignty - think about how we will be able to pass laws affecting life and business in the UK
* Money - think about our NET £8.5 billion contribution (2015 figures) to the EU. Remember, this figure EXCLUDES any money the EU contributes back to us for regional development!
* Immigration - think about how EU citizens have a built-in advantage about moving here over non-EU citizens
* And finally, and perhaps most importantly: Believe in BRITAIN! Be LEAVE!
thank you!
The Sunil on Sunday Editorial Team
Lord Sunil (proprietor and headline-finder pursuivant) Austin Allegra (politics) Clair Fix (model... trains) Larry Gineker (sports) Mystic Smeg (clairvoyance) Mark Commode (films)
I have made a point of not commenting on the politics or otherwise of the Cox murder as I find it distasteful from all sides.
But just as a general point, lots of people take their kids on protests when they don't expect there to be trouble. Just look at the Countryside Rally in London a decade or so ago or lots of other protests that have been held in London over the years. The only ones you would tend to avoid would be those where there was likely to be trouble on account of the age of the main body of protestors - students etc.
Taking kids out on a boat on the Thames if they are properly equipped and when protesting against fishermen - who I would contend would be the very last people to put anyone at risk on the water - seems like a very safe bet to me and certainly not something to be criticised.
At the very least in hindsight the kids got an exciting day out on a boat with their Mum and Dad as a happy memory before everything changed forever.
I would never criticise anyone - even with foresight or hindsight for that.
The best way that one can honour her memory is to go out and vote on 23rd June, and to vote in what one considers to be the UK's best interest.
Good evening. Long time lurker speaking up for the 1st time (well I have posted a couple of times previously in the last ten years, so not quite true).
I've been thinking over the last few hours, whether the (perceived?) over-coverage of Jo Cox's death will have a detrimental effect on the Remain campaign? Similar to the way that 'Project Fear' and their repeated warnings have apparently made some voters lean towards leave?
The death of an MP in such a manner is rare, however it is not without precedent. Thinking about the reaction to the Brighton hotel bombing and the murder of Airey Neave, I have an impression there was far less publicised grief than there is today. Maybe this is related to 24 hours news channels?
Over-coverage of her murder so close to the referendum, while making repeated assertions of 'what Jo believed' may make people believe her murder is being exploited for political reasons and out of disgust, vote leave or not vote all (presuming that they were going to vote remain)
It was Project Fear which won it for No in Scotland and was moving the polls to Remain again last week even before the murder
I'm not necessarily disputing that, what I'm thinking is that could be a factor which produces a counter-swing to remain. It may be lost in the statistical noise, but what made me start thinking about it was a conservation with people my age (early-mid 20s) saying that they were getting really rather tired about hearing about the murder, what she was like as a person and what she believed in (I've not repeated this verbatim, more colourful language was used). These are people who I would term as soft remainers, they say they will vote remain, but I've not know them to vote religiously, I'm not sure if this will put them off from turning out all together. I know its an anecdote, but they seem very popular on here, so I'm joining the club.
As a general rule, sanctimony overload and grief overkill make people reach for the mute button.
Lots of people were complaining about overload with regard to Muhammad Ali, a legendary sportsman, world famous character and part of the fabric of their lives so it isn't hard to imagine what ordinary folk think of this.
Leave need to organise an event at 4pm on Wednesday. They CANNOT allow Remain to seize media coverage as they have since Thursday.
That would look terrible. LEAVE have just got to sit back and let this play out. Maybe this will win the referendum for REMAIN and maybe it won't. Either way there is nothing to be done from LEAVE'S POV.
Despite all this I think leave may just win because of the postal votes but I like so many really have no idea
Postal votes are all elderly leavers
No we're not.
A few students and those working away but mainly the elderly
The whole heated debate over the politicization of Jo Cox's death, and I am writing from the luxury of living in the States so not having to put up with the over-coverage, strikes me as desperation on both sides.
Desperate from Remain, as why else resort to this tastelessness.
Desperate from Leave, as if they didn't believe it might help Remain, they'd not care less about the politicization.
If this has been organised as reported by her family why is it tasteless
As general point again. I do understand why this is such a bitter referendum campaign.
We are looking at this as a normal political war between established armies. It is not. This is a civil war where the people you hitherto regarded as your closest friends and allies turn out to be on the other side. Not only does this foster an atmosphere of betrayal but it also means that often you may know far more about your opponents and they know more about you than would normally be the case. It provides weapons that are not usually available and most of us (including myself) have little compunction about using them.
Those of us who have chosen opposing sides in this fight and have chosen to actually take the fight to the enemy do so because it is something that is fundamental to our view of the country, our nationality and our beliefs (I am applying that to both sides not just one) You do not just have a good argument, shake hands and walk away.
Civil wars are always the most divisive and take the longest time to recover from.
This is why things cannot and will not be the same afterwards.
Yes.
You've commented too on being pessimistic. Me too. Every election campaign I've taken part in since 1987 i've lost sleep over, and assumed the worst, and this is no exception.
Comments
So before you chucking stones in that particular glasshouse stop and think how desperate that was.
Funny because I don't recall many Leavers objecting to the coverage of Lee Rigsby being murdered or the Paris or Brussels atrocities. Do you?
*innocent face*
I'm thinking about "buying the edge cases" - i.e the 55-60 and 40-45 bands for Remain.
The Times today was speculating that Theresa May would be drafted in as a "caretaker leader" while a leadership contest goes on.
A frightful grief for the family of Jo Cox and I can't imagine how all this hoo-hah is going to make it easier on them.
This is a hugely important decision for the country to take, and the voters' concerns (and the voters themselves) have been denigrated & rubbished & trampled on by the powerful. They'll be all right, whatever happens, and that's their only concern. Sod the little people.
I don't remember when I've been so sick at heart.
And re the Kinnock gravy train -I'd love to see how much money the entire family has made from the EU. It might be 10 million.
I see a far-right group that I've never heard of (National Action) has called for a Brexit vote in honour of the killer. Unfortunately one can't choose one's supporters so I wouldn't blame Brexit for that. My comments for what they are worth: http://www.nickpalmer.org.uk/jo-cox/
I suppose we all are. Not comfortable.
I think TSE has postal voted, for example.
But just as a general point, lots of people take their kids on protests when they don't expect there to be trouble. Just look at the Countryside Rally in London a decade or so ago or lots of other protests that have been held in London over the years. The only ones you would tend to avoid would be those where there was likely to be trouble on account of the age of the main body of protestors - students etc.
Taking kids out on a boat on the Thames if they are properly equipped and when protesting against fishermen - who I would contend would be the very last people to put anyone at risk on the water - seems like a very safe bet to me and certainly not something to be criticised.
At the very least in hindsight the kids got an exciting day out on a boat with their Mum and Dad as a happy memory before everything changed forever.
I would never criticise anyone - even with foresight or hindsight for that.
That tribute sounds good though.
Bloody immigrants coming over here and complaining about immigration...
I have been away for a few days and returned to find myself somewhat nauseated by the quality of posts of this once informative, interesting and amusing site. Some of you chaps should be ashamed of yourselves.
Kids are wrapped in far too much cotton wool these days so good on them for doing it. They had lifejackets on so they were being responsible. End of.
I'm fuming about what I see is blatant Dianification for political end, but that dosent mean I agree with peddling such nonsense. The end dosent justify the means. Don't stoop to their level.
We are looking at this as a normal political war between established armies. It is not. This is a civil war where the people you hitherto regarded as your closest friends and allies turn out to be on the other side. Not only does this foster an atmosphere of betrayal but it also means that often you may know far more about your opponents and they know more about you than would normally be the case. It provides weapons that are not usually available and most of us (including myself) have little compunction about using them.
Those of us who have chosen opposing sides in this fight and have chosen to actually take the fight to the enemy do so because it is something that is fundamental to our view of the country, our nationality and our beliefs (I am applying that to both sides not just one) You do not just have a good argument, shake hands and walk away.
Civil wars are always the most divisive and take the longest time to recover from.
This is why things cannot and will not be the same afterwards.
The campaign has been distinguished by its lack of honesty, the absence of almost any rational let alone intellectual discourse, and now by the hysteria surrounding the murder of Jo Cox MP.
It has been a truly grisly & demeaning spectacle.
Every erosion of standard, every downward slip has been accompanied by some fool justifying it by saying, “Did you not expect Remain/Leave to Fight Hard”.
"Keep Calm and Vote LEAVE!"
No one can doubt The Sunil on Sunday's shock and dismay at the murder of Jo Cox last week. And no one can possibly justify her killing either, whether or not the motive was political. But as the case is now sub judice, we will leave the judge and jury to decide exactly what the motive was, and what was heard and what was seen by eyewitnesses on that tragic day.
But we would like to remind our fans and readers that Mr. Mair is no more representative of the Brexiteers than Mr. Mateen in Orlando is representative of Muslims. Just because one lone nutter within a particular political or religious group carries out a heinous, barbaric assault against democracy and freedom, it doesn't mean we have to tar all members of the group with the same brush. We hope you will agree with us on that point at least!
For that reason, we urge all our fans and readers to take stock of poor Ms Cox's murder, by all means, but not to let that affect how they will vote this coming Thursday. Try not to lose sight of the bigger picture - our place in or out of Europe. If you happen to support the REMAIN side, fair play to you, sirs and madams! We will heartily disagree with you, but we will support your right to vote REMAIN without being branded unpatriotic. But we for our part still recommend a LEAVE vote, for the following reasons:
* Democracy - think about whether REMAINING or LEAVING will be helpful or a hindrance to the democratic process
* Sovereignty - think about how we will be able to pass laws affecting life and business in the UK
* Money - think about our NET £8.5 billion contribution (2015 figures) to the EU. Remember, this figure EXCLUDES any money the EU contributes back to us for regional development!
* Immigration - think about how EU citizens have a built-in advantage about moving here over non-EU citizens
* And finally, and perhaps most importantly: Believe in BRITAIN! Be LEAVE!
thank you!
The Sunil on Sunday Editorial Team
Lord Sunil (proprietor and headline-finder pursuivant)
Austin Allegra (politics)
Clair Fix (model... trains)
Larry Gineker (sports)
Mystic Smeg (clairvoyance)
Mark Commode (films)
Lots of people were complaining about overload with regard to Muhammad Ali, a legendary sportsman, world famous character and part of the fabric of their lives so it isn't hard to imagine what ordinary folk think of this.
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Edit: Audience member compares him to Neville Chamberlain. Amusing.
You've commented too on being pessimistic. Me too. Every election campaign I've taken part in since 1987 i've lost sleep over, and assumed the worst, and this is no exception.
So the EU are the Nazis?