BBC 10 pm news leading with witness saying he shouted 'Britain First'
Even if I thought this guy was 100% motivated by Brexit [entirely unproved at the moment] and had no mental issues [they are highly suggested at the moment], why would that change my, or anyone's, vote?
I believe a Leave vote would reduce such tensions on all sides, which is just another good reason to make sure I vote for it.
The EU is unaccountable, irreformable, has lost control, and has the smell of death about it.
We don't need a bail-out, but it's certainly time for our bale-out...
Yep the right time to employ hyperbole that the EU has the smell of death about it.
...migrant hordes terrorizing their way into the Continent by sheer force of numbers, murderous terrorists roaming and killing freely around European capitals, countless corpses of criminal so-called asylum-seekers washing up on European shores...
All is well. Situation normal. The EU project goes from strength to strength...
I'd often wondered about victim impact statements in the event of a murder.
What if no one liked the victim? What if they were a dull... of no discernible merit?
What if there is no one to speak for them? Still a tragedy in my view.
Exactly. And they are a fraud on the family. Because the sentence the judge has to pass is not affected by the statement. It's a bit of therapy for the family. And colour me callous if you will. But the courts are not the place for family therapy.
What people want is justice: for the guilty to be caught and punished. For the existence of the victim as a person to be acknowledged. And there should be other agencies to help families through their grief. Lawyers emoting in court adds nothing. Emoting is not real emotion. It is not even normal human sympathy and understanding. It's a bit of empty narcissistic play-acting.
Don't get me started on barristers in court emoting.
I hear of them describing how dastardly a crime was etc etc in opening speeches but can't help but thinking.. Who cares? What links the accused to the crime? They are no more or less guilty, and the only person interested in how evil the crime was should be the judge when it comes to sentencing. It is irrelevant to the question of guilt.
That's for the jury. The opening speech helps frame the narrative for what they will hear from the witnesses. It's like the outline which the barrister hopes the witnesses will colour in. If the jury heard just from the witnesses it would be one big mess. Getting the balance right is a real art form because there will some on the jury thinking like you and others who react differently. That's why you will see good barristers even when they're making their speech looking carefully at the jury and how they're reacting and reacting and adapting what they say and how they say it to the reaction.
There is always a two-way element to any good performance like that, be it jury speech or training speech or any other sort of speech. The dull ones are where the speaker pays no attention to the audience, could be speaking to a piece of cheese in fact.
Tragic news about Jo Cox and shows not even our gun laws are infallible. As for the referendum it will inevitably stop the Leave momentum dead, not that that should be a major consideration today and with a week to go until polling day campaigning will halt until at least the weekend
Might have helped them a bit by killing the coverage of the Farage advert this morning - felt like it could have gone too far. On the other hand it could give Remain an opportunity to recalibrate their campaign a bit and soften it slightly.
Both sides will soften their campaigns but I cannot see Leave winning now, their momentum has gone and the killer will be seen to have supported their campaign, however unfairly
Thats a bit silly. Millions have voted by post and millions of others are not going to suddenly change their minds due to one incident however awful.
I predict that - come the polls on Monday morning - we'll see Lead with leads of oooh... about 6%.
Why are you so confident of that?
The evidence on here is that some firm Leavers bottle it when they think Leave might win.
And those are the ones that admit to feeling like that.
We aren't representative of the voters.
I think it applies to professional ABs in London and the South East.
If a few hundred thousand bottle it, we lose.
This group is largely REMAIN anyway. What has turned the referendum is that immigration has connected as the most salient issue with WWC in the North and Midlands.
Not in my area they aren't (Mid Sussex/East Surrey), to my surprise. Despite the significant wealth in the area. Leave posters all over the place, nothing for Remain and hardly a good word for them from anyone.
Though it seems a minority view on here I think I agree with HYUFD that this will probably stop the Leave bandwagon dead in its tracks and Remain will most likely limp over the line. If only because it will force Leave to heavily ease off on the immigration rhetoric. The luckiest politician of our times, David Cameron, may well snatch victory from the jaws of defeat yet again.
Don't get me started on barristers in court emoting.
I hear of them describing how dastardly a crime was etc etc in opening speeches but can't help but thinking.. Who cares? What links the accused to the crime? They are no more or less guilty, and the only person interested in how evil the crime was should be the judge when it comes to sentencing. It is irrelevant to the question of guilt.
That's for the jury. The opening speech helps frame the narrative for what they will hear from the witnesses. It's like the outline which the barrister hopes the witnesses will colour in. If the jury heard just from the witnesses it would be one big mess. Getting the balance right is a real art form because there will some on the jury thinking like you and others who react differently. That's why you will see good barristers even when they're making their speech looking carefully at the jury and how they're reacting and reacting and adapting what they say and how they say it to the reaction.
There is always a two-way element to any good performance like that, be it jury speech or training speech or any other sort of speech. The dull ones are where the speaker pays no attention to the audience, could be speaking to a piece of cheese in fact.
In Scotland we don't have opening speeches. We just get on with it after the indictment has been read. Doesn't seem to cause any problems.
I'd often wondered about victim impact statements in the event of a murder.
What if no one liked the victim? What if they were a dull... of no discernible merit?
What if there is no one to speak for them? Still a tragedy in my view.
Exactly. And they are a fraud on the family. Because the sentence the judge has to pass is not affected by the statement. It's a bit of therapy for the family. And colour me callous if you will. But the courts are not the place for family therapy.
What people want is justice: for the guilty to be caught and punished. For the existence of the victim as a person to be acknowledged. And there should be other agencies to help families through their grief. Lawyers emoting in court adds nothing. Emoting is not real emotion. It is not even normal human sympathy and understanding. It's a bit of empty narcissistic play-acting.
Don't get me started on barristers in court emoting.
Seen too many legal dramas probably. I actually really like legal procedurals which, though of course they rely on the emotive appeal approach, have a lawyer pull off a slick point of law or interpretation to get their way.
I recall an episode of the Good Wife before I stopped watching as it got so ridiculous where one of the lawyers had been making objections before a judge who would move on without formally ruling, which the lawyer disputed, implying it was a way for the judge not to have their judgement overturned on appeal as no judgement had been made, and demanding a formal ruling.
I've no idea if that was even anything close to making sense in terms of the law in reality, but I liked the presentation of someone making a clever argument, rather than just talking about what a horrid crime was committed or how good a person the victim was or something.
I find most legal dramas completely unwatchable because they get so many things wrong that I find it impossible to suspend disbelief. The only one which got it remotely right was Kavanagh QC.
There are pictures circulating on twitter of the person arrested and Farage at an anti EU rally.
Link?
There is nothing on Twitter.
I saw it on Twitter.
If true then Farage's 'violence is the next step' comments will look even more ill-judged.
I'm far from convinced Farage wants Leave to win this.
I'm far from convinced any of the Leave campaign do! All of them would be much better off with a narrow Remain win, mass resentment, Osbrown taking the rap for his economic mismanagement etc.
Farage gets to be England's Alex Salmond and keeps his MEP salary too
Yep. And no-one wants to be carrying the can for the recession, which we all know will come along sooner or later regardless of the outcome of the EUref. People are people. We all have our own motivations and interests.
Indeed, Farage loves being the populist peoples' champion, he certainly does not want to have to get responsibility for anything
We always forget how incredibly accessible British politicians are. With Westminster being 100% single member geographical constituencies and the tradition of super case worker MP's they do spend time hanging around local libraries where just anyone can turn up. I think it's a glory of the British ' High Trust ' system. It's like being able to vote with no ID. To be controversial Jo Cox being murdered is as teach as long a serving police officer or Lee Rigby. It's the death of someone on the front line defending democracy. What a dark day.
BBC 10 pm news leading with witness saying he shouted 'Britain First'
Even if I thought this guy was 100% motivated by Brexit [entirely unproved at the moment] and had no mental issues [they are highly suggested at the moment], why would that change my, or anyone's, vote?
I believe a Leave vote would reduce such tensions on all sides, which is just another good reason to make sure I vote for it.
The EU is unaccountable, irreformable, has lost control, and has the smell of death about it.
We don't need a bail-out, but it's certainly time for our bale-out...
Yep the right time to employ hyperbole that the EU has the smell of death about it.
...migrant hordes terrorizing their way into the Continent by sheer force of numbers, murderous terrorists roaming and killing freely around European capitals, countless corpses of criminal so-called asylum-seekers washing up on European shores...
All is well. Situation normal. The EU project goes from strength to strength...
OMG Rod....I'm shocked that someone could have so much hatred against humanity within them
Don't get me started on barristers in court emoting.
I hear of them describing how dastardly a crime was etc etc in opening speeches but can't help but thinking.. Who cares? What links the accused to the crime? They are no more or less guilty, and the only person interested in how evil the crime was should be the judge when it comes to sentencing. It is irrelevant to the question of guilt.
That's for the jury. The opening speech helps frame the narrative for what they will hear from the witnesses. It's like the outline which the barrister hopes the witnesses will colour in. If the jury heard just from the witnesses it would be one big mess. Getting the balance right is a real art form because there will some on the jury thinking like you and others who react differently. That's why you will see good barristers even when they're making their speech looking carefully at the jury and how they're reacting and reacting and adapting what they say and how they say it to the reaction.
There is always a two-way element to any good performance like that, be it jury speech or training speech or any other sort of speech. The dull ones are where the speaker pays no attention to the audience, could be speaking to a piece of cheese in fact.
In Scotland we don't have opening speeches. We just get on with it after the indictment has been read. Doesn't seem to cause any problems.
I didn't know that. Presumably the prosecution tries to call witnesses in some sort of order best calculated to help make sense of the case, where the facts are complicated. Do you have closing speeches?
I imagine you dislike the (if US TV shows are an indication) practice of talking about young victims in terms of their academic aptitude. 'The honors student' etc, that sort of thing.
I most certainly do. Every young person is a star, a brilliant student etc, struck down with so much promise etc. I understand the impulse behind it. But it's almost as if it implies that the death of an average person with not many friends and ho hum exam results is less important. And that's not true. Most people are not stars, not even promising ones. Most of us are ordinary. But a life is a life and when it is taken away violently it is a sad loss. Ordinary is the human condition.
In the criminal law it is the act which is being punished not the fact that we have lost a future Einstein. I dislike the sentimentality which has been imported into the system, because in an odd way it seems to diminish the importance of what's happened.
And when the death is a suicide of a mentally ill young person the reports rarely say what in my experience is true - that such people can often - because of their illness be a complete pain to be with and can cause immense strain on their families, relationships, parents marriages. It is understandable that people should want to have a narrative that provides some comfort but the truth is usually a bit messier.
I'd often wondered about victim impact statements in the event of a murder.
What if no one liked the victim? What if they were a dull... of no discernible merit?
What if there is no one to speak for them? Still a tragedy in my view.
You should've heard my dad's eulogy. What it didn't say...
Sorry... Laughed out loud. My bad.
Lots of Love...
I remember sitting through it and marveling at how well it swerved all the usual adjectives
A master class!
I have to say my father was well liked, the funeral well attended (held on a Saturday) and we all had a damn good laugh telling tales of him. Still sad, but funny as well.
BBC 10 pm news leading with witness saying he shouted 'Britain First'
Even if I thought this guy was 100% motivated by Brexit [entirely unproved at the moment] and had no mental issues [they are highly suggested at the moment], why would that change my, or anyone's, vote?
I believe a Leave vote would reduce such tensions on all sides, which is just another good reason to make sure I vote for it.
The EU is unaccountable, irreformable, has lost control, and has the smell of death about it.
We don't need a bail-out, but it's certainly time for our bale-out...
Yep the right time to employ hyperbole that the EU has the smell of death about it.
...migrant hordes terrorizing their way into the Continent by sheer force of numbers, murderous terrorists roaming and killing freely around European capitals, countless corpses of criminal so-called asylum-seekers washing up on European shores...
All is well. Situation normal. The EU project goes from strength to strength...
OMG Rod....I'm shocked that someone could have so much hatred against humanity within them
I have a love of humanity. But my love of Truth is greater still...
Has to be. That's if you can't get a private apartment in the Villa Medici, where I spent a week in the early 1990s. Bigger private garden than the Pope's, y'know
For those who are wondering what's happened to AndyJS he feels that he's not wanted on PB.
Whoever gave him that impression might like to apologise.
Perhaps we could all try to be a little more polite and a little less hostile to each other.
That's a shame... Hopefully he'll come back after the referendum... I think these past few weeks have brought out the worst in people on all sides of the debate (myself included probably)
There are pictures circulating on twitter of the person arrested and Farage at an anti EU rally.
Link?
There is nothing on Twitter.
I saw it on Twitter.
If true then Farage's 'violence is the next step' comments will look even more ill-judged.
I'm far from convinced Farage wants Leave to win this.
I'm far from convinced any of the Leave campaign do! All of them would be much better off with a narrow Remain win, mass resentment, Osbrown taking the rap for his economic mismanagement etc.
Farage gets to be England's Alex Salmond and keeps his MEP salary too
Yep. And no-one wants to be carrying the can for the recession, which we all know will come along sooner or later regardless of the outcome of the EUref. People are people. We all have our own motivations and interests.
Indeed, Farage loves being the populist peoples' champion, he certainly does not want to have to get responsibility for anything
He's not going to have responsibility for anything even if it is Leave.
I wouldn't be surprised if he became a MEP in a different country afterwards.
Tragic news about Jo Cox and shows not even our gun laws are infallible. As for the referendum it will inevitably stop the Leave momentum dead, not that that should be a major consideration today and with a week to go until polling day campaigning will halt until at least the weekend
Might have helped them a bit by killing the coverage of the Farage advert this morning - felt like it could have gone too far. On the other hand it could give Remain an opportunity to recalibrate their campaign a bit and soften it slightly.
Both sides will soften their campaigns but I cannot see Leave winning now, their momentum has gone and the killer will be seen to have supported their campaign, however unfairly
Thats a bit silly. Millions have voted by post and millions of others are not going to suddenly change their minds due to one incident however awful.
I predict that - come the polls on Monday morning - we'll see Lead with leads of oooh... about 6%.
Why are you so confident of that?
The evidence on here is that some firm Leavers bottle it when they think Leave might win.
And those are the ones that admit to feeling like that.
We aren't representative of the voters.
I think it applies to professional ABs in London and the South East.
If a few hundred thousand bottle it, we lose.
This group is largely REMAIN anyway. What has turned the referendum is that immigration has connected as the most salient issue with WWC in the North and Midlands.
Not in my area they aren't (Mid Sussex/East Surrey), to my surprise. Despite the significant wealth in the area. Leave posters all over the place, nothing for Remain and hardly a good word for them from anyone.
Though it seems a minority view on here I think I agree with HYUFD that this will probably stop the Leave bandwagon dead in its tracks and Remain will most likely limp over the line. If only because it will force Leave to heavily ease off on the immigration rhetoric. The luckiest politician of our times, David Cameron, may well snatch victory from the jaws of defeat yet again.
Tragic news about Jo Cox and shows not even our gun laws are infallible. As for the referendum it will inevitably stop the Leave momentum dead, not that that should be a major consideration today and with a week to go until polling day campaigning will halt until at least the weekend
Might have helped them a bit by killing the coverage of the Farage advert this morning - felt like it could have gone too far. On the other hand it could give Remain an opportunity to recalibrate their campaign a bit and soften it slightly.
Both sides will soften their campaigns but I cannot see Leave winning now, their momentum has gone and the killer will be seen to have supported their campaign, however unfairly
Thats a bit silly. Millions have voted by post and millions of others are not going to suddenly change their minds due to one incident however awful.
I predict that - come the polls on Monday morning - we'll see Lead with leads of oooh... about 6%.
Why are you so confident of that?
The evidence on here is that some firm Leavers bottle it when they think Leave might win.
And those are the ones that admit to feeling like that.
We aren't representative of the voters.
I think it applies to professional ABs in London and the South East.
If a few hundred thousand bottle it, we lose.
This group is largely REMAIN anyway. What has turned the referendum is that immigration has connected as the most salient issue with WWC in the North and Midlands.
Not in my area they aren't (Mid Sussex/East Surrey), to my surprise. Despite the significant wealth in the area. Leave posters all over the place, nothing for Remain and hardly a good word for them from anyone.
Though it seems a minority view on here I think I agree with HYUFD that this will probably stop the Leave bandwagon dead in its tracks and Remain will most likely limp over the line. If only because it will force Leave to heavily ease off on the immigration rhetoric. The luckiest politician of our times, David Cameron, may well snatch victory from the jaws of defeat yet again.
Mid Sussex/East Surrey? Presumably East Grinstead? Do you know Wayne?
That's for the jury. The opening speech helps frame the narrative for what they will hear from the witnesses. It's like the outline which the barrister hopes the witnesses will colour in. If the jury heard just from the witnesses it would be one big mess. Getting the balance right is a real art form because there will some on the jury thinking like you and others who react differently. That's why you will see good barristers even when they're making their speech looking carefully at the jury and how they're reacting and reacting and adapting what they say and how they say it to the reaction.
There is always a two-way element to any good performance like that, be it jury speech or training speech or any other sort of speech. The dull ones are where the speaker pays no attention to the audience, could be speaking to a piece of cheese in fact.
In Scotland we don't have opening speeches. We just get on with it after the indictment has been read. Doesn't seem to cause any problems.
I didn't know that. Presumably the prosecution tries to call witnesses in some sort of order best calculated to help make sense of the case, where the facts are complicated. Do you have closing speeches?
Yes, we do closing speeches.
The first witness for most cases is a scene of crimes officer who will walk the jury through the locus with a series of pictures so they can get some idea of where whatever it was happened. At the end of the Crown case there is usually a joint minute setting out the agreed facts as well which usually involves a lot of the detail. There is a lot more pressure on defence counsel to agree uncontentious matters these days in the pre trial procedure.
I have often been somewhat bemused when I have read about opening speeches taking a day or more. It sounds awfully like lawyers giving evidence to me. Different strokes I suppose.
For those who are wondering what's happened to AndyJS he feels that he's not wanted on PB.
Whoever gave him that impression might like to apologise.
Perhaps we could all try to be a little more polite and a little less hostile to each other.
I would hope so - the atmosphere has been particularly nasty and will remain so for at least the referendum period and immediate aftermath I suspect, but will then return to normality. Unlike the Tory party, careers and livelihoods are not dependent on the outcome so the hostile attacks during the campaign can be worked past.
I find most legal dramas completely unwatchable because they get so many things wrong that I find it impossible to suspend disbelief. The only one which got it remotely right was Kavanagh QC.
Not being legally minded obviously I don't care about things being wrong, but I find I prefer a higher level of verisimilitude thesedays - I find it harder to watch crime procedurals as I come away from most episodes thinking that well done they caught the person (although in the case of Criminal Minds they usually shoot them dead after they have descended into a killing frenzy, somewhat undermining the idea they are great at catching people), but there's no way they will get convicted on the basis of what the episodes establish.
I have the highest respect for @AndyJS. If I have ever said anything that makes him feel otherwise (and I cannot recall ever saying anything that might make him feel that), I apologise.
Don't get me started on barristers in court emoting.
I hear of them describing how dastardly a crime was etc etc in opening speeches but can't help but thinking.. Who cares? What links the accused to the crime? They are no more or less guilty, and the only person interested in how evil the crime was should be the judge when it comes to sentencing. It is irrelevant to the question of guilt.
That's for the jury. The opening speech helps frame the narrative for what they will hear from the witnesses. It's like the outline which the barrister hopes the witnesses will colour in. If the jury heard just from the witnesses it would be one big mess. Getting the balance right is a real art form because there will some on the jury thinking like you and others who react differently. That's why you will see good barristers even when they're making their speech looking carefully at the jury and how they're reacting and reacting and adapting what they say and how they say it to the reaction.
There is always a two-way element to any good performance like that, be it jury speech or training speech or any other sort of speech. The dull ones are where the speaker pays no attention to the audience, could be speaking to a piece of cheese in fact.
In Scotland we don't have opening speeches. We just get on with it after the indictment has been read. Doesn't seem to cause any problems.
We always forget how incredibly accessible British politicians are. With Westminster being 100% single member geographical constituencies and the tradition of super case worker MP's they do spend time hanging around local libraries where just anyone can turn up. I think it's a glory of the British ' High Trust ' system. It's like being able to vote with no ID.
Indeed. We give our politicians crap, and sometimes they will deserve it, but there are a great many places where it must be an easier, more profitable and more pleasant place to be an MP than here, and with far less expectation of direct contact.
BBC 10 pm news leading with witness saying he shouted 'Britain First'
Even if I thought this guy was 100% motivated by Brexit [entirely unproved at the moment] and had no mental issues [they are highly suggested at the moment], why would that change my, or anyone's, vote?
I believe a Leave vote would reduce such tensions on all sides, which is just another good reason to make sure I vote for it.
The EU is unaccountable, irreformable, has lost control, and has the smell of death about it.
We don't need a bail-out, but it's certainly time for our bale-out...
Yep the right time to employ hyperbole that the EU has the smell of death about it.
...migrant hordes terrorizing their way into the Continent by sheer force of numbers, murderous terrorists roaming and killing freely around European capitals, countless corpses of criminal so-called asylum-seekers washing up on European shores...
All is well. Situation normal. The EU project goes from strength to strength...
What an extraordinarily idiotic comment. And the bar is high, here on PB at times.
Tragic news about Jo Cox and shows not even our gun laws are infallible. As for the referendum it will inevitably stop the Leave momentum dead, not that that should be a major consideration today and with a week to go until polling day campaigning will halt until at least the weekend
Might have helped them a bit by killing the coverage of the Farage advert this morning - felt like it could have gone too far. On the other hand it could give Remain an opportunity to recalibrate their campaign a bit and soften it slightly.
Both sides will soften their campaigns but I cannot see Leave winning now, their momentum has gone and the killer will be seen to have supported their campaign, however unfairly
Thats a bit silly. Millions have voted by post and millions of others are not going to suddenly change their minds due to one incident however awful.
I predict that - come the polls on Monday morning - we'll see Lead with leads of oooh... about 6%.
Why are you so confident of that?
The evidence on here is that some firm Leavers bottle it when they think Leave might win.
And those are the ones that admit to feeling like that.
We aren't representative of the voters.
I think it applies to professional ABs in London and the South East.
If a few hundred thousand bottle it, we lose.
This group is largely REMAIN anyway. What has turned the referendum is that immigration has connected as the most salient issue with WWC in the North and Midlands.
Not in my area they aren't (Mid Sussex/East Surrey), to my surprise. Despite the significant wealth in the area. Leave posters all over the place, nothing for Remain and hardly a good word for them from anyone.
Though it seems a minority view on here I think I agree with HYUFD that this will probably stop the Leave bandwagon dead in its tracks and Remain will most likely limp over the line. If only because it will force Leave to heavily ease off on the immigration rhetoric. The luckiest politician of our times, David Cameron, may well snatch victory from the jaws of defeat yet again.
Mid Sussex/East Surrey? Presumably East Grinstead? Do you know Wayne?
That's outrageous. We have no idea why he killed her.
Nothing from the police, but the press are are tryingto piece together his background. According to the independent :
"The man arrested over the killing of Labour MP Jo Cox is believed to have had long-term links with a hard-right group based in London which had been campaigning for many years for Britain to leave the European Union.
Thomas Mair was named as a supporter in an online publication of the Springbok Club, an organisation which has defended the white supremacist apartheid regime in South Africa."
I have the highest respect for @AndyJS. If I have ever said anything that makes him feel otherwise (and I cannot recall ever saying anything that might make him feel that), I apologise.
There are pictures circulating on twitter of the person arrested and Farage at an anti EU rally.
Link?
There is nothing on Twitter.
I saw it on Twitter.
If true then Farage's 'violence is the next step' comments will look even more ill-judged.
I'm far from convinced Farage wants Leave to win this.
I'm far from convinced any of the Leave campaign do! All of them would be much better off with a narrow Remain win, mass resentment, Osbrown taking the rap for his economic mismanagement etc.
Farage gets to be England's Alex Salmond and keeps his MEP salary too
Yep. And no-one wants to be carrying the can for the recession, which we all know will come along sooner or later regardless of the outcome of the EUref. People are people. We all have our own motivations and interests.
Indeed, Farage loves being the populist peoples' champion, he certainly does not want to have to get responsibility for anything
He's not going to have responsibility for anything even if it is Leave.
I wouldn't be surprised if he became a MEP in a different country afterwards.
Well his wife is Germany, I suppose he could join the Afd!
BBC 10 pm news leading with witness saying he shouted 'Britain First'
Even if I thought this guy was 100% motivated by Brexit [entirely unproved at the moment] and had no mental issues [they are highly suggested at the moment], why would that change my, or anyone's, vote?
I believe a Leave vote would reduce such tensions on all sides, which is just another good reason to make sure I vote for it.
The EU is unaccountable, irreformable, has lost control, and has the smell of death about it.
We don't need a bail-out, but it's certainly time for our bale-out...
Yep the right time to employ hyperbole that the EU has the smell of death about it.
...migrant hordes terrorizing their way into the Continent by sheer force of numbers, murderous terrorists roaming and killing freely around European capitals, countless corpses of criminal so-called asylum-seekers washing up on European shores...
All is well. Situation normal. The EU project goes from strength to strength...
OMG Rod....I'm shocked that someone could have so much hatred against humanity within them
I have a love of humanity. But my love of Truth is greater still...
Tragic news about Jo Cox and shows not even our gun laws are infallible. As for the referendum it will inevitably stop the Leave momentum dead, not that that should be a major consideration today and with a week to go until polling day campaigning will halt until at least the weekend
Might have helped them a bit by killing the coverage of the Farage advert this morning - felt like it could have gone too far. On the other hand it could give Remain an opportunity to recalibrate their campaign a bit and soften it slightly.
Both sides will soften their campaigns but I cannot see Leave winning now, their momentum has gone and the killer will be seen to have supported their campaign, however unfairly
Thats a bit silly. Millions have voted by post and millions of others are not going to suddenly change their minds due to one incident however awful.
I predict that - come the polls on Monday morning - we'll see Lead with leads of oooh... about 6%.
Why are you so confident of that?
The evidence on here is that some firm Leavers bottle it when they think Leave might win.
And those are the ones that admit to feeling like that.
We aren't representative of the voters.
I think it applies to professional ABs in London and the South East.
If a few hundred thousand bottle it, we lose.
This group is largely REMAIN anyway. What has turned the referendum is that immigration has connected as the most salient issue with WWC in the North and Midlands.
Not in my area they aren't (Mid Sussex/East Surrey), to my surprise. Despite the significant wealth in the area. Leave posters all over the place, nothing for Remain and hardly a good word for them from anyone.
Though it seems a minority view on here I think I agree with HYUFD that this will probably stop the Leave bandwagon dead in its tracks and Remain will most likely limp over the line. If only because it will force Leave to heavily ease off on the immigration rhetoric. The luckiest politician of our times, David Cameron, may well snatch victory from the jaws of defeat yet again.
Mid Sussex/East Surrey? Presumably East Grinstead? Do you know Wayne?
I think recalling Parliament for a day would indeed be appropriate. Something awful happened to our democracy and way of life today and I think we should mark it.
There are pictures circulating on twitter of the person arrested and Farage at an anti EU rally.
Link?
There is nothing on Twitter.
I saw it on Twitter.
If true then Farage's 'violence is the next step' comments will look even more ill-judged.
I'm far from convinced Farage wants Leave to win this.
I'm far from convinced any of the Leave campaign do! All of them would be much better off with a narrow Remain win, mass resentment, Osbrown taking the rap for his economic mismanagement etc.
Farage gets to be England's Alex Salmond and keeps his MEP salary too
Yep. And no-one wants to be carrying the can for the recession, which we all know will come along sooner or later regardless of the outcome of the EUref. People are people. We all have our own motivations and interests.
Indeed, Farage loves being the populist peoples' champion, he certainly does not want to have to get responsibility for anything
He's not going to have responsibility for anything even if it is Leave.
I wouldn't be surprised if he became a MEP in a different country afterwards.
That would be kind of amusing. He gets us out, but his job is not done until everywhere is out!
To respect our democracy, to show compassion for a colleague, to highlight the seriousness of the situation, to show appropriate gravitas, to protect the institution, to cross political divides in a show of compassion.....
That's outrageous. We have no idea why he killed her.
Nothing from the police, but the press are are tryingto piece together his background. According to the independent :
"The man arrested over the killing of Labour MP Jo Cox is believed to have had long-term links with a hard-right group based in London which had been campaigning for many years for Britain to leave the European Union.
Thomas Mair was named as a supporter in an online publication of the Springbok Club, an organisation which has defended the white supremacist apartheid regime in South Africa."
Long term links? I believe he took up an introductory subscription offer for their magazine and didn't renew after he had received a couple of issues.
The level of spin to suit a particular agenda is rediculous.
When the police break their silence we'll find out soon enough.
Whilst it is clearly difficult to find words to describe the crassness of the Star frontpage, i'm struggling to understand how it could be suggested that it is linked to its pro-Brexit agenda? Or have I misunderstood - how could such a headline be anything but bad for the Leave campaign?
The motivation doesn't matter and we don't yet know it. However she was killed while carrying out her role as an MP. Constituency Surgeries are at the heart of the system. Recall is therefore perfectly justified. Given where we are in the Referendum campaign it's also a highly political act which will affect the media cycle. However recall can be justified.
Tragic news about Jo Cox and shows not even our gun laws are infallible. As for the referendum it will inevitably stop the Leave momentum dead, not that that should be a major consideration today and with a week to go until polling day campaigning will halt until at least the weekend
. On the other hand it could give Remain an opportunity to recalibrate their campaign a bit and soften it slightly.
Both sides will soften their campaigns but I cannot see Leave winning now, their momentum has gone and the killer will be seen to have supported their campaign, however unfairly
Thats a bit silly. Millions have voted by post and millions of others are not going to suddenly change their minds due to one incident however awful.
I predict that - come the polls on Monday morning - we'll see Lead with leads of oooh... about 6%.
Why are you so confident of that?
The evidence on here is that some firm Leavers bottle it when they think Leave might win.
And those are the ones that admit to feeling like that.
We aren't representative of the voters.
I think it applies to professional ABs in London and the South East.
If a few hundred thousand bottle it, we lose.
This group is largely REMAIN anyway. What has turned the referendum is that immigration has connected as the most salient issue with WWC in the North and Midlands.
Not in my area they aren't (Mid Sussex/East Surrey), to my surprise. Despite the significant wealth in the area. Leave posters all over the place, nothing for Remain and hardly a good word for them from anyone.
Though it seems a minority view on here I think I agree with HYUFD that this will probably stop the Leave bandwagon dead in its tracks and Remain will most likely limp over the line. If only because it will force Leave to heavily ease off on the immigration rhetoric. The luckiest politician of our times, David Cameron, may well snatch victory from the jaws of defeat yet again.
Mid Sussex/East Surrey? Presumably East Grinstead? Do you know Wayne?
Yes I live in East Grinstead. Who's Wayne?
Vote leave coordinator in Mid Sussex...
I'm voting Remain, though I feel very much in a minority locally.
Whilst it is clearly difficult to find words to describe the crassness of the Star frontpage, i'm struggling to understand how it could be suggested that it is linked to its pro-Brexit agenda? Or have I misunderstood - how could such a headline be anything but bad for the Leave campaign?
It's both inflammatory and bizarre. The inflammatory aspect isn't new in this campaign, however.
To respect our democracy, to show compassion for a colleague, to highlight the seriousness of the situation, to show appropriate gravitas, to protect the institution, to cross political divides in a show of compassion.....
Fair enough, I thought for a second it was just politicians trying to look like they were doing something legislative.
Vile stuff. One can only hope they are trying to jump to the backlash against the backlash before the backlash. At least that would be rational vileness as opposed to just being vile.
Whilst it is clearly difficult to find words to describe the crassness of the Star frontpage, i'm struggling to understand how it could be suggested that it is linked to its pro-Brexit agenda? Or have I misunderstood - how could such a headline be anything but bad for the Leave campaign?
Indeed.
I don't think there any positives for LEAVE in Brexit being connected in any way, shape or form with a cold blooded murder.
Whilst it is clearly difficult to find words to describe the crassness of the Star frontpage, i'm struggling to understand how it could be suggested that it is linked to its pro-Brexit agenda? Or have I misunderstood - how could such a headline be anything but bad for the Leave campaign?
Because it is at the very least premature judgement and much more probably over the top nonsense which may well provoke a reaction toward Leave as a result.
It may do no such thing, but I don't see how it will hurt Leave either.
Thats a bit silly. Millions have voted by post and millions of others are not going to suddenly change their minds due to one incident however awful.
I predict that - come the polls on Monday morning - we'll see Lead with leads of oooh... about 6%.
Why are you so confident of that?
The evidence on here is that some firm Leavers bottle it when they think Leave might win.
And those are the ones that admit to feeling like that.
We aren't representative of the voters.
I think it applies to professional ABs in London and the South East.
If a few hundred thousand bottle it, we lose.
This group is largely REMAIN anyway. What has turned the referendum is that immigration has connected as the most salient issue with WWC in the North and Midlands.
Not in my area they aren't (Mid Sussex/East Surrey), to my surprise. Despite the significant wealth in the area. Leave posters all over the place, nothing for Remain and hardly a good word for them from anyone.
Though it seems a minority view on here I think I agree with HYUFD that this will probably stop the Leave bandwagon dead in its tracks and Remain will most likely limp over the line. If only because it will force Leave to heavily ease off on the immigration rhetoric. The luckiest politician of our times, David Cameron, may well snatch victory from the jaws of defeat yet again.
Mid Sussex/East Surrey? Presumably East Grinstead? Do you know Wayne?
Yes I live in East Grinstead. Who's Wayne?
Vote leave coordinator in Mid Sussex...
I'm voting Remain, though I feel very much in a minority locally.
Ah. Interesting. I am voting leave. I think it will be a leave win in Mid Sussex by a few points I suspect. Not massive though.
Whilst it is clearly difficult to find words to describe the crassness of the Star frontpage, i'm struggling to understand how it could be suggested that it is linked to its pro-Brexit agenda? Or have I misunderstood - how could such a headline be anything but bad for the Leave campaign?
I'm saying it's not the headline I'd expect from a newspaper whose owner is very much a Brexiteer, it has the potential to be a very toxic headline for Leave.
BBC 10 pm news leading with witness saying he shouted 'Britain First'
Even if I thought this guy was 100% motivated by Brexit [entirely unproved at the moment] and had no mental issues [they are highly suggested at the moment], why would that change my, or anyone's, vote?
I believe a Leave vote would reduce such tensions on all sides, which is just another good reason to make sure I vote for it.
The EU is unaccountable, irreformable, has lost control, and has the smell of death about it.
We don't need a bail-out, but it's certainly time for our bale-out...
Yep the right time to employ hyperbole that the EU has the smell of death about it.
...migrant hordes terrorizing their way into the Continent by sheer force of numbers, murderous terrorists roaming and killing freely around European capitals, countless corpses of criminal so-called asylum-seekers washing up on European shores...
All is well. Situation normal. The EU project goes from strength to strength...
OMG Rod....I'm shocked that someone could have so much hatred against humanity within them
I have a love of humanity. But my love of Truth is greater still...
I genuinely feel sorry for you...
You'd be better employed dribbling your intellectual vacuity on someone else.
Whilst it is clearly difficult to find words to describe the crassness of the Star frontpage, i'm struggling to understand how it could be suggested that it is linked to its pro-Brexit agenda? Or have I misunderstood - how could such a headline be anything but bad for the Leave campaign?
Because it's a variation of the ' Dead Cat '. Some folk will try to exploit this for Remain but will do so subtly at first. By calling him a " Brexit Killer " they jump the first stage and go straight to the " Not all Brexit supporters are murders - that's outrageous " stage first. If it is that it's rational and clever albeit disgusting.
Whilst it is clearly difficult to find words to describe the crassness of the Star frontpage, i'm struggling to understand how it could be suggested that it is linked to its pro-Brexit agenda? Or have I misunderstood - how could such a headline be anything but bad for the Leave campaign?
Because it's a variation of the ' Dead Cat '. Some folk will try to exploit this for Remain but will do so subtly at first. By calling him a " Brexit Killer " they jump the first stage and go straight to the " Not all Brexit supporters are murders - that's outrageous " stage first. If it is that it's rational and clever albeit disgusting.
It could just be the Daily Star is leaning Remain regardless of its owner's position? Either way, I don't think it's a newspaper of record that will swing many votes....
Thats a bit silly. Millions have voted by post and millions of others are not going to suddenly change their minds due to one incident however awful.
I predict that - come the polls on Monday morning - we'll see Lead with leads of oooh... about 6%.
Though it seems a minority view on here I think I agree with HYUFD that this will probably stop the Leave bandwagon dead in its tracks and Remain will most likely limp over the line. If only because it will force Leave to heavily ease off on the immigration rhetoric. The luckiest politician of our times, David Cameron, may well snatch victory from the jaws of defeat yet again.
Mid Sussex/East Surrey? Presumably East Grinstead? Do you know Wayne?
Yes I live in East Grinstead. Who's Wayne?
Vote leave coordinator in Mid Sussex...
I'm voting Remain, though I feel very much in a minority locally.
Ah. Interesting. I am voting leave. I think it will be a leave win in Mid Sussex by a few points I suspect. Not massive though.
From posters, social media posts and talking to neighbours & friends I have been expecting something like 60-40 to Leave here. But I think today may well impact the undecideds.
Whilst it is clearly difficult to find words to describe the crassness of the Star frontpage, i'm struggling to understand how it could be suggested that it is linked to its pro-Brexit agenda? Or have I misunderstood - how could such a headline be anything but bad for the Leave campaign?
I'm saying it's not the headline I'd expect from a newspaper whose owner is very much a Brexiteer, it has the potential to be a very toxic headline for Leave.
No I know that you're not saying that - you're genuinely as amazed as me - but some seem to be implying it.
Whilst it is clearly difficult to find words to describe the crassness of the Star frontpage, i'm struggling to understand how it could be suggested that it is linked to its pro-Brexit agenda? Or have I misunderstood - how could such a headline be anything but bad for the Leave campaign?
I'm saying it's not the headline I'd expect from a newspaper whose owner is very much a Brexiteer, it has the potential to be a very toxic headline for Leave.
Agreed. If it had been a pro remain paper I'd have said "w*nkers" but as it's Dirty Desmond I'd say that no matter what was in it.
I imagine there's quite a few people been put off posting on here these past few weeks given the way passions and emotions have been running high.
Yes indeed, I had to take a week entirely away from commenting on politics, which for an obsessed anorak is quite the feat, as it was just making me depressed and angry. Currently I feel refreshed, but tempers shall no doubt fray as we approach the endgame. I feel I should get into the spirit of things and start labelling known quislings, but that talk seems to have died down, slightly.
Whilst it is clearly difficult to find words to describe the crassness of the Star frontpage, i'm struggling to understand how it could be suggested that it is linked to its pro-Brexit agenda? Or have I misunderstood - how could such a headline be anything but bad for the Leave campaign?
I'm saying it's not the headline I'd expect from a newspaper whose owner is very much a Brexiteer, it has the potential to be a very toxic headline for Leave.
I don't think so TSE.
I'm not normally conspiratorial, but the betting markets vis a vis the 2015 GE election and now the EU 2016, suggest to me that there are some people with access to more sophisticated private polling than the public polls that are published.
Surely in the age of the internet, and erm, niche websites available, the Daily Star should be the next paper to close to due lack of sales?
I don't know about currently, but I remember reading a couple of years ago that it was the only paper with growing circulation. Does it actually have a lot of pictures? (I've no idea!) I thought that was the Daily Sport!
I have now seen two full newspaper pages that were so sinister and disgusting I thought they were some sort of sick spoof. Call the campaign off. Call the fucking referendum off. The country has gone mad. What a sad, sad day.
Thats a bit silly. Millions have voted by post and millions of others are not going to suddenly change their minds due to one incident however awful.
I predict that - come the polls on Monday morning - we'll see Lead with leads of oooh... about 6%.
Why are you so confident of that?
The evidence on here is that some firm Leavers bottle it when they think Leave might win.
And those are the ones that admit to feeling like that.
We aren't representative of the voters.
I think it applies to professional ABs in London and the South East.
If a few hundred thousand bottle it, we lose.
This group is largely REMAIN anyway. What has turned the referendum is that immigration has connected as the most salient issue with WWC in the North and Midlands.
Though it seems a minority view on here I think I agree with HYUFD that this will probably stop the Leave bandwagon dead in its tracks and Remain will most likely limp over the line. If only because it will force Leave to heavily ease off on the immigration rhetoric. The luckiest politician of our times, David Cameron, may well snatch victory from the jaws of defeat yet again.
Mid Sussex/East Surrey? Presumably East Grinstead? Do you know Wayne?
Yes I live in East Grinstead. Who's Wayne?
Vote leave coordinator in Mid Sussex...
I'm voting Remain, though I feel very much in a minority locally.
Ah. Interesting. I am voting leave. I think it will be a leave win in Mid Sussex by a few points I suspect. Not massive though.
At least until today I was expecting a 60-40 victory for Leave here - based on posters, social media posts, talking to friends & neighbours.
BBC 10 pm news leading with witness saying he shouted 'Britain First'
Even if I thought this guy was 100% motivated by Brexit [entirely unproved at the moment] and had no mental issues [they are highly suggested at the moment], why would that change my, or anyone's, vote?
I believe a Leave vote would reduce such tensions on all sides, which is just another good reason to make sure I vote for it.
The EU is unaccountable, irreformable, has lost control, and has the smell of death about it.
We don't need a bail-out, but it's certainly time for our bale-out...
Yep the right time to employ hyperbole that the EU has the smell of death about it.
...migrant hordes terrorizing their way into the Continent by sheer force of numbers, murderous terrorists roaming and killing freely around European capitals, countless corpses of criminal so-called asylum-seekers washing up on European shores...
All is well. Situation normal. The EU project goes from strength to strength...
OMG Rod....I'm shocked that someone could have so much hatred against humanity within them
I have a love of humanity. But my love of Truth is greater still...
I genuinely feel sorry for you...
You'd be better employed dribbling your intellectual vacuity on someone else.
I have now seen two full newspaper pages that were so sinister and disgusting I thought they were some sort of sick spoof. Call the campaign off. Call the fucking referendum off. The country has gone mad. What a sad, sad day.
Sad indeed, but if there is a sickness, it needs addressing. Better or worse, the referendum will be a lancing. Hopefully the sickness is a boil which lancing will address, and not something more serious.
Thats a bit silly. Millions have voted by post and millions of others are not going to suddenly change their minds due to one incident however awful.
I predict that - come the polls on Monday morning - we'll see Lead with leads of oooh... about 6%.
Though it seems a minority view on here I think I agree with HYUFD that this will probably stop the Leave bandwagon dead in its tracks and Remain will most likely limp over the line. If only because it will force Leave to heavily ease off on the immigration rhetoric. The luckiest politician of our times, David Cameron, may well snatch victory from the jaws of defeat yet again.
Mid Sussex/East Surrey? Presumably East Grinstead? Do you know Wayne?
Yes I live in East Grinstead. Who's Wayne?
Vote leave coordinator in Mid Sussex...
I'm voting Remain, though I feel very much in a minority locally.
Ah. Interesting. I am voting leave. I think it will be a leave win in Mid Sussex by a few points I suspect. Not massive though.
From posters, social media posts and talking to neighbours & friends I have been expecting something like 60-40 to Leave here. But I think today may well impact the undecideds.
Interesting. If I can get online from the count I will let you know...
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
Though it seems a minority view on here I think I agree with HYUFD that this will probably stop the Leave bandwagon dead in its tracks and Remain will most likely limp over the line. If only because it will force Leave to heavily ease off on the immigration rhetoric. The luckiest politician of our times, David Cameron, may well snatch victory from the jaws of defeat yet again.
I expected and predicted fireworks and now we have had some. I think there will be more and bigger before next Thursday. This isn't over yet.
There won't be stasis. Who knows what effect the reporting of the murder and the responses to it have had on people's voting intentions? Few will think "A pro-Remain MP got murdered, so the Poles won't be undercutting me in the labour market any more". Probably most intending Leave voters know full well that there are at least a few nutcases on the Leave side, so perhaps it won't have much effect. Or perhaps it will help Remain get its vote out, or for some who were getting enthusiastic about voting Leave perhaps it will take the edge off their expected enjoyment and cause them to stay at home. Those who get the results of private polls conducted this afternoon and tomorrow will be able to form some kind of informed view. For the record, I doubt this murder has won the referendum for Remain.
Tomorrow is triple witching day on the derivatives markets. That means markets will be very sensitive to manipulation, which because of the imminent expiration deadline comes cheaper than on other days.
Then on Saturday campaigning starts again, in time for the Sunday newspapers.
The big thing today is that Question Time has been stopped. It was two TV shows around a week ago that gave Leave its big push forward in the polls. Cameron ballsed up.
What happens in the big TV shows to come is going to be interesting.
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
We give MPs a lot of stick, but most of the hyperbolic ire directed at them is, naturally, overblown and unfair, particularly the ones who are not even seeking the limelight and doing the front rank things we dislike most about our political classes.
I find having met a number of local councillors, a great many of whom are capable, hard working and decent people trying to do their best and work with even opponents for their communities, I have come to respect elected representatives a great deal more and try to give MPs a fair shake.
This simply reflects the available information so far online, in a vacuum of official sources, rather than a necessary agenda.
But the article seems contradictory.
It begins by saying 10 years ago, the Springbok Club magazine lost touch with a Tommy Mair.
"The link between Mair and the Springbok Club goes back ten years when its online magazine, the Springbok Cyber Newsletter, was inquiring about the whereabouts of “Thomas Mair, from Batley in Yorkshire [who] was one of the earliest subscribers and supporters of “S.A. Patriot” who has moved from his address in the Fieldhead Estate district of the town.”
It then quotes a neighbour who says
“He's lived there longer than me and I've lived here since 1975. I still can't believe it. He's the last guy I would have thought of.
So, the Tommy Mair who killed Jo Cox hasn’t moved for at least 40 years.
I suspect we’re better off waiting for the police to tell us, rather than rely on journalists googling the internet.
One of the worst things about some of the Islamist things that happen is people acting as deniers and apologists and pretending they weren't really muslims or whatever.
The man is obviously at the very fringe of extreme right wing opinion and mental health. Let's be honest about it, and insist that the law deals with it.
No excuses, no grumbles, no denials - just an unequivocal condemnation of his actions and expectation that the law deals with him.
I'm a Leaver, but violent right wing extremism is every bit as bad as other versions and has no place in the UK.
Comments
All is well. Situation normal. The EU project goes from strength to strength...
There is always a two-way element to any good performance like that, be it jury speech or training speech or any other sort of speech. The dull ones are where the speaker pays no attention to the audience, could be speaking to a piece of cheese in fact.
Though it seems a minority view on here I think I agree with HYUFD that this will probably stop the Leave bandwagon dead in its tracks and Remain will most likely limp over the line. If only because it will force Leave to heavily ease off on the immigration rhetoric. The luckiest politician of our times, David Cameron, may well snatch victory from the jaws of defeat yet again.
Wandsworth Guardian seems to know who it wants to win. Not sure on the quality of the coverage given the 10.23pm comment...
Whoever gave him that impression might like to apologise.
Perhaps we could all try to be a little more polite and a little less hostile to each other.
Should be an easy hold for Lab I'd have thought?
Edit- how could I forget his wonderful spreadsheets!
If you get to Florence on your Italian travels let me know.....I'll take a train to somewhere else......
No seriously, let me know. You may well find that the most unlikeliest of friendships emerges....
I wouldn't be surprised if he became a MEP in a different country afterwards.
The first witness for most cases is a scene of crimes officer who will walk the jury through the locus with a series of pictures so they can get some idea of where whatever it was happened. At the end of the Crown case there is usually a joint minute setting out the agreed facts as well which usually involves a lot of the detail. There is a lot more pressure on defence counsel to agree uncontentious matters these days in the pre trial procedure.
I have often been somewhat bemused when I have read about opening speeches taking a day or more. It sounds awfully like lawyers giving evidence to me. Different strokes I suppose.
It's as if the Star just wants to cause a shit storm.
Desmond is a nasty piece of work.
If someone looks back to the last thread or two on which he posted the reason might become clear.
"The man arrested over the killing of Labour MP Jo Cox is believed to have had long-term links with a hard-right group based in London which had been campaigning for many years for Britain to leave the European Union.
Thomas Mair was named as a supporter in an online publication of the Springbok Club, an organisation which has defended the white supremacist apartheid regime in South Africa."
Does anyone know whether it is any good?
I think recalling Parliament for a day would indeed be appropriate. Something awful happened to our democracy and way of life today and I think we should mark it.
Even I've been pretty nasty at times (don't think I have been to Andy J but if I have I apologize of course) which is unlike me...
I don't think there any positives for LEAVE in Brexit being connected in any way, shape or form with a cold blooded murder.
It may do no such thing, but I don't see how it will hurt Leave either.
Actually I would be interested in knowing this too - similar, greater or lesser buzz than the Ice Twins?
Jo Cox dead: Suspect linked to hard-right group that has campaigned against the EU
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/jo-cox-dead-thomas-mair-suspect-south-africa-apartheid-a7086426.html
Some have places to prop up their paper.
I don't think so TSE.
I'm not normally conspiratorial, but the betting markets vis a vis the 2015 GE election and now the EU 2016, suggest to me that there are some people with access to more sophisticated private polling than the public polls that are published.
Ok that one may have been too much.
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
There won't be stasis. Who knows what effect the reporting of the murder and the responses to it have had on people's voting intentions? Few will think "A pro-Remain MP got murdered, so the Poles won't be undercutting me in the labour market any more". Probably most intending Leave voters know full well that there are at least a few nutcases on the Leave side, so perhaps it won't have much effect. Or perhaps it will help Remain get its vote out, or for some who were getting enthusiastic about voting Leave perhaps it will take the edge off their expected enjoyment and cause them to stay at home. Those who get the results of private polls conducted this afternoon and tomorrow will be able to form some kind of informed view. For the record, I doubt this murder has won the referendum for Remain.
Tomorrow is triple witching day on the derivatives markets. That means markets will be very sensitive to manipulation, which because of the imminent expiration deadline comes cheaper than on other days.
Then on Saturday campaigning starts again, in time for the Sunday newspapers.
The big thing today is that Question Time has been stopped. It was two TV shows around a week ago that gave Leave its big push forward in the polls. Cameron ballsed up.
What happens in the big TV shows to come is going to be interesting.
I find having met a number of local councillors, a great many of whom are capable, hard working and decent people trying to do their best and work with even opponents for their communities, I have come to respect elected representatives a great deal more and try to give MPs a fair shake.
It begins by saying 10 years ago, the Springbok Club magazine lost touch with a Tommy Mair.
"The link between Mair and the Springbok Club goes back ten years when its online magazine, the Springbok Cyber Newsletter, was inquiring about the whereabouts of “Thomas Mair, from Batley in Yorkshire [who] was one of the earliest subscribers and supporters of “S.A. Patriot” who has moved from his address in the Fieldhead Estate district of the town.”
It then quotes a neighbour who says
“He's lived there longer than me and I've lived here since 1975. I still can't believe it. He's the last guy I would have thought of.
So, the Tommy Mair who killed Jo Cox hasn’t moved for at least 40 years.
I suspect we’re better off waiting for the police to tell us, rather than rely on journalists googling the internet.
The man is obviously at the very fringe of extreme right wing opinion and mental health. Let's be honest about it, and insist that the law deals with it.
No excuses, no grumbles, no denials - just an unequivocal condemnation of his actions and expectation that the law deals with him.
I'm a Leaver, but violent right wing extremism is every bit as bad as other versions and has no place in the UK.