On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
No - I think the UK papers this morning - with one (mercifully small circulation) glaring example have been appropriately circumspect in their coverage - the Star headline is a disgrace - it may ultimately prove true - but we're a long way from knowing that yet.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
How it's being reported abroad:
British-born Graham Wilson, professor of political science at Boston University and an expert on British politics, said the pro-Brexit campaign "has done its best to create a climate of anger and hostility about immigration and the presence of foreigners."
"One warning of this for politicians in every country and every democracy is that if you create a climate of fear and anger targeted on foreigners and other minorities, then there will be a very, very small minority who will do horrendous things responding to that mood," he said.
Even the Sun admits there may be a link, and doesn't like Farage's poster:
The Sun is campaigning for Leave. Today is not the day for it.
Let us just say this.
This referendum campaign has gone far beyond a frank and honest debate.
Supporters of both Remain and Leave routinely cross the line.
Leavers are subjected daily to a barrage of abuse from the top of the Remain camp down. Sensible, moderate, intelligent people with real fears for their livelihoods and their communities — or those of others — are smeared as moronic, easily led, racist Little Englanders.
It is unfair on millions of people. But it is given credence by the extreme rhetoric from Leave’s far-right flank.
The Sun does not like to see posters demonising queues of immigrants.
We have always said we do not blame them for seeking out a better life.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does,
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
No - I think the UK papers this morning - with one (mercifully small circulation) glaring example have been appropriately circumspect in their coverage - the Star headline is a disgrace - it may ultimately prove true - but we're a long way from knowing that yet.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
Let's face it, none of the political parties are coming out of this referendum smelling of roses. What were the phrases so beloved by the likes of Clegg, Cameron and Brown after the expenses scandal? New Politics? Broken Politics? Well, boys, you've certainly broken it now.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
No - I think the UK papers this morning - with one (mercifully small circulation) glaring example have been appropriately circumspect in their coverage - the Star headline is a disgrace - it may ultimately prove true - but we're a long way from knowing that yet.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
You're trying to insinuate that Leave campaigners are in some measure responsible for this murder, without being prepared to explicitly state it.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
No - I think the UK papers this morning - with one (mercifully small circulation) glaring example have been appropriately circumspect in their coverage - the Star headline is a disgrace - it may ultimately prove true - but we're a long way from knowing that yet.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
You're trying to insinuate that Leave campaigners are in some measure responsible for this murder, without being prepared to explicitly state it.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets face it - some LEAVErs aren't going to accept a loss, what ever the reason.
If it's not Cox's murder, it will be the extra registration time allowed, Carney or something else.
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
No - I think the UK papers this morning - with one (mercifully small circulation) glaring exception have been appropriately circumspect in their coverage - the Star headline is a disgrace - it may ultimately prove true - but we're a long way from knowing that yet.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
Beneath contempt.
Your posts this morning have only redoubled my determination to fight this campaign hard every day we have left.
I put the blame squarely with both camps. Yes Farage has produced a homage to Nazi propaganda with a poster I suspect will be quietly dropped. Yes people are banging on about foreigners like they are aliens. But also look to remain and "Project Fear" - vilify and try and scare people into voting one particular way. Its not working? Threaten them with government imposed financial ruin.
A lot of posters on here are right leaning so you may not get this next bit. This government is nasty. It has victimised abused and denigrated the poor the sick the dying, all the time egged on by scum press like the Daily Hurrah-for-the-Blackshirts. Its taking people too sick to work, putting them through a bullshit "assesment" and pronouncing them fit for work, taking away what little money they have, even wheelchairs FFS. Then when they are found dead IDS says "nothing to do with me". And the working poor? Scroungers. Feckless. Look, that one has a big TV and claims they need to go to a food bank, all of which are "politically motivated"
It's not just this campaign. Its the denouement of a long campaign to divide people so that the people at the top get away with it. What passes for political dialogue these days is a disgrace. We proclaim the brilliance of Britain as we forget everything that it means to actually be British
Just as Leave have over the Paris and Brussels murders.
The only people I have seen making capital out of the Paris and Brussels bombings have been the Remain side, claiming that the UK would be at greater risk of such tragedies if we left and caused the whole structure of intelligence sharing between nations to come crashing to the ground. Another unseemly (and facile) aspect of their Project Fear.
Political assassinations are a feature of extremist politics. It is sad that this has happened in GB, which has hitherto been largely free of this malaise, at least internally. IRA terrorism was not internal to GB, but came from Ireland, which has a long history of such violence.
Some ideallistic remainers will make the effort to turn up (if they bothered to register)
Farage will keep a lower profile over the next week which will probably be a net benefit to leave as it eliminates the risk of him doing something stupid.
The usual suspects will try and Dianify it and wave shrouds.
In the case of the last one if they go over the top and especially if the remain campaign or leading lights of it do this it will backfire very badly on them.
Most of the public however, if they have even noticed over the football, will just be glad when it is all over and relieved that the po,iticians have stopped ramming the EU down our throat for a couple of days.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets face it - some LEAVErs aren't going to accept a loss, what ever the reason.
If it's not Cox's murder, it will be the extra registration time allowed, Carney or something else.
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
No - I think the UK papers this morning - with one (mercifully small circulation) glaring exception have been appropriately circumspect in their coverage - the Star headline is a disgrace - it may ultimately prove true - but we're a long way from knowing that yet.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
What Remainers aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves so desperate to keep the EU project going they will cling to a mawkish sentimentality on the back of the actions of one mentally ill person. The case for the EU has proven so impossible to make, this is their Last Best Chance....to say this mentally ill person is the poster boy for Leave. You have to admit, that is pretty sick.
Campaigning yesterday morning there was universal concern for the standard of debate from the people to whom we talked. No-one I talked to, or heard colleagues talking to, felt that there had been much sensible public discussion, just scare-mongering.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
Yep. Before the news broke that she had died they were quoting eye witnesses saying he'd shouted "Britain First" as "he" attacked her. My instinct then was that this would turn the referendum to Remain.
Remember, this isn't really a referendum based on fact. There are a few basic principles in play but both campaigns have lied and scaremongered through their teeth. Both campaigns have bitterly attacked not just the opposite campaign but their voters as well. It has been the worst kind of bitter nasty divisive politics, and it's been building like this since the expenses scandal.
People understandably were unhappy with MPs claiming for duck moats. That built into anger, and the last 6 years has seen politicians and the press whip this into open hatred and fear. Of politicians. Of the poor. The sick. The dying. The foreign. The rich. Anyone who isn't you. Fear them. Dislike them. Shout abuse at them. Abuse them in the media, on social media, in the street.
We need a new dialogue in this country. And right now, with so little time before this vote, I can see a lot of people step back from their own invective and think. I came out yesterday and said I'd vote to leave. Partly in disgust at Osborne's punishment budget. But mainly on principle and reason about the need to change direction of the EU. For the people voting Leave for more of a gut feel issue, I do wonder if yesterday will make them reassess.
An excellent post. Most by you seem to be similarly excellent.
Sorry I saw you wrote you had some bad news yesterday; I hope things work out well.
I put the blame squarely with both camps. Yes Farage has produced a homage to Nazi propaganda with a poster I suspect will be quietly dropped. Yes people are banging on about foreigners like they are aliens. But also look to remain and "Project Fear" - vilify and try and scare people into voting one particular way. Its not working? Threaten them with government imposed financial ruin.
A lot of posters on here are right leaning so you may not get this next bit. This government is nasty. It has victimised abused and denigrated the poor the sick the dying, all the time egged on by scum press like the Daily Hurrah-for-the-Blackshirts. Its taking people too sick to work, putting them through a bullshit "assesment" and pronouncing them fit for work, taking away what little money they have, even wheelchairs FFS. Then when they are found dead IDS says "nothing to do with me". And the working poor? Scroungers. Feckless. Look, that one has a big TV and claims they need to go to a food bank, all of which are "politically motivated"
It's not just this campaign. Its the denouement of a long campaign to divide people so that the people at the top get away with it. What passes for political dialogue these days is a disgrace. We proclaim the brilliance of Britain as we forget everything that it means to actually be British
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
AVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
You're trying to insinuate that Leave campaigners are in some measure responsible for this murder, without being prepared to explicitly state it.
Looking at historical political assassinations in the UK then apart from the IRA sponsored violence, they are mercifully rare. I cannot easily find any outside of the IRA ones in the recent past.
I think we all need to refocus on what's happened.
A mentally ill person (and all current reports are pointing in this direction) has killed a local MP. Whatever else happened is irrelevant. There is no connection to any political 'agenda'.
I'm pleased to see that politicians of all stripes can rally round and condemn a truly horrendous act, I think both Teresa May and Jeremy Corbyn's statements were heartfelt and genuine.
In the UK we have a wonderfully open and approachable political class. The envy of the world. We should remember that and try to ensure we keep it.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
AVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
You're trying to insinuate that Leave campaigners are in some measure responsible for this murder, without being prepared to explicitly state it.
Despite all calls for reticence and pause for mourning, the Remain Campaign and its many MSM supporters are going to rub Jo Cox' murder in Leavers faces; one way or another.
I posted the above around 6 am this morning. I was right, The BBC for one, can't leave the subject alone.
Comments
The Sun is campaigning for Leave. Today is not the day for it.
Let us just say this.
This referendum campaign has gone far beyond a frank and honest debate.
Supporters of both Remain and Leave routinely cross the line.
Leavers are subjected daily to a barrage of abuse from the top of the Remain camp down.
Sensible, moderate, intelligent people with real fears for their livelihoods and their communities — or those of others — are smeared as moronic, easily led, racist Little Englanders.
It is unfair on millions of people. But it is given credence by the extreme rhetoric from Leave’s far-right flank.
The Sun does not like to see posters demonising queues of immigrants.
We have always said we do not blame them for seeking out a better life.
Your posts this morning have only redoubled my determination to fight this campaign hard every day we have left.
A lot of posters on here are right leaning so you may not get this next bit. This government is nasty. It has victimised abused and denigrated the poor the sick the dying, all the time egged on by scum press like the Daily Hurrah-for-the-Blackshirts. Its taking people too sick to work, putting them through a bullshit "assesment" and pronouncing them fit for work, taking away what little money they have, even wheelchairs FFS. Then when they are found dead IDS says "nothing to do with me". And the working poor? Scroungers. Feckless. Look, that one has a big TV and claims they need to go to a food bank, all of which are "politically motivated"
It's not just this campaign. Its the denouement of a long campaign to divide people so that the people at the top get away with it. What passes for political dialogue these days is a disgrace. We proclaim the brilliance of Britain as we forget everything that it means to actually be British
Some wont want to vote now.
Some ideallistic remainers will make the effort to turn up (if they bothered to register)
Farage will keep a lower profile over the next week which will probably be a net benefit to leave as it eliminates the risk of him doing something stupid.
The usual suspects will try and Dianify it and wave shrouds.
In the case of the last one if they go over the top and especially if the remain campaign or leading lights of it do this it will backfire very badly on them.
Most of the public however, if they have even noticed over the football, will just be glad when it is all over and relieved that the po,iticians have stopped ramming the EU down our throat for a couple of days.
Both sides were to blame.
It’s very, very worrying.
Sorry I saw you wrote you had some bad news yesterday; I hope things work out well.
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
Even Farage looked embarrassed in front of that poster yesterday.
There are many fine people arguing with sound reasons for LEAVE.
And there are some who are not.
I think we all need to refocus on what's happened.
A mentally ill person (and all current reports are pointing in this direction) has killed a local MP. Whatever else happened is irrelevant. There is no connection to any political 'agenda'.
I'm pleased to see that politicians of all stripes can rally round and condemn a truly horrendous act, I think both Teresa May and Jeremy Corbyn's statements were heartfelt and genuine.
In the UK we have a wonderfully open and approachable political class. The envy of the world. We should remember that and try to ensure we keep it.
"You're a disgrace to this site"
I can think of few posters who are less a disgrace to this site. Time for you to take a lie down. A very uncharacteristic post
I posted the above around 6 am this morning.
I was right, The BBC for one, can't leave the subject alone.