'The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are by always thinking that it is right and the people must obediently follow.'
Hard to find anything as remote,unaccountable and undemocratic as the EU
How about changing PM and Chancellor along with 3/4 of the cabinet without an election?
We have a parliamentary democracy. That is the way it works. We do not elect a PM. We elect an MP.
In the USA they can change presidents, and an entire cabinet without an election, though it does require the untimely demise or impeachment of the president.
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
We should do this, we should do that. Let's get real. MPs are public servants. Some are good, some are bad, some are indifferent. Some are decent; others aren't. Some hold some quite repellent views. Others are pompous arses. And plenty of others get on with trying to do a good job. Some - as we know - have defrauded the public and gone to prison. We will think what we will of them, based on the evidence. I am not going to be dragooned by some columnist into being told what to think about a class of people (in this case, MPs) just because one MP was horribly killed by a deranged loon with apparently loopy ideas.
And if MPs want our trust back they can start by bloody well earning it. By showing us through what they do that they have earned and deserve a trust. Just like the rest of us have to do with our clients and customers etc.
Trust is earned not demanded as of right.
Polls almost always show that people trust their local MP much more than the political class as a whole. Of course every MP is the local MP for around 80,000 people, and a member of the political class to the other 59million.
And how many of those voters have even encountered their local MP let alone know what he or she does? I would not be able to say that i trust my local MP because other than her party and the fact that she has had a baby recently I know nothing about her and have not seen her say or do anything in the constituency, other than as a candidate when she didn't impress me with her answers on free speech. As far as I'm concerned - and much like her predecessor - she's invisible. So I have nothing on which to make any judgment about her trustworthiness. It is quite possible that this happy situation will last for as long as she's the MP or I live here.
I have yet to meet anyone in my constituency who has had anything to do with my current MP who did not come away feeling soiled.
I did rather like Jim Marshall though, and Peter Soulsby.
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
Yes it is, but I think you are for once totally off base by saying we think of them as we will based on the evidence. I dont believe that is true for most people for most MPs. As I said previously, I have no issue holding MPs to a higher standard than other people, higher than the standard I set for myself, due to the positions they have chosen to hold and its responsibilities, but deserving of great scepticism and scrutiny as they are, my reading of the telegraph piece in the line of the cnn interview was just that our instinctive view of all MPs as being like the worst is a little unfair, not based on evidence in fact
Good night.
Well the reason people have become very sceptical about MPs in recent years has resulted from the expenses scandal. The very same MPs who rightly castigated bankers for not whistleblowing about the criminality in their midst never took a look at themselves and asked themselves why not one MP blew the whistle on what was going on. Not one. So just as I criticise the culture in banking which permitted / encouraged people to turn a blind eye, I will criticise that same culture in MPs. Have they taken steps to address that? I've not seen any evidence of that.
That's not unreasonable. But it's not incompatible to criticise the general culture in MPs in that regard with due skepticism, while also recognising not all MPs, even expenses fiddlers, are poor in every other respect, which is the general position. It is not a case of lionising them or demonising them with no middle ground. I regard the entreaties we've seen merely as an acceptance for a bit of nuance and of the positive things they will often do. You might well regard that as insufficient for individuals or groups to make up for the general negativity, and so might I, I don't think most of them truly thought they did wrong, but it does not preclude perhaps not automatically expecting and treating them like garbage, which many people do, and which we've all done in jest.
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
Yes it is, but I think you are for once totally off base by saying we think of them as we will based on the evidence. I dont believe that is true for most people for most MPs. As I said previously, I have no issue holding MPs to a higher standard than other people, higher than the standard I set for myself, due to the positions they have chosen to hold and its responsibilities, but deserving of great scepticism and scrutiny as they are, my reading of the telegraph piece in the line of the cnn interview was just that our instinctive view of all MPs as being like the worst is a little unfair, not based on evidence in fact
Good night.
Well the reason people have become very sceptical about MPs in recent years has resulted from the expenses scandal. The very same MPs who rightly castigated bankers for not whistleblowing about the criminality in their midst never took a look at themselves and asked themselves why not one MP blew the whistle on what was going on. Not one. So just as I criticise the culture in banking which permitted / encouraged people to turn a blind eye, I will criticise that same culture in MPs. Have they taken steps to address that? I've not seen any evidence of that.
That's not unreasonable. But it's not incompatible to criticise the general culture in MPs in that regard with due skepticism, while also recognising not all MPs, even expenses fiddlers, are poor in every other respect, which is the general position. It is not a case of lionising them or demonising them with no middle ground. I regard the entreaties we've seen merely as an acceptance for a bit of nuance and of the positive things they will often do. You might well regard that as insufficient for individuals or groups to make up for the general negativity, and so might I, I don't think most of them truly thought they did wrong, but it does not preclude perhaps not automatically expecting and treating them like garbage, which many people do, and which we've all done in jest.
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are...
But it's happening outside the EU as well and in places where the EU is irrelevant like the US. Something deeper is going on and the EU is probably neither a symptom nor a cause.
Lying politicians/parties are the cause who continue to ignore public opinion.
That includes the EU.
Mostly it is austerity with people looking to find a convenient scapegoat to blame.
Actually it is immigration, culture and identity.
If you become a minority in your own area, with full face veils on your high street, foreign shops, non-English widely spoken and the mass rapes of young English girls by immigrant gangs covered up by the Police - you're dismissed as a racist by the main parties and media establishment. Is it any wonder why the EDL was formed?
If the main parties refuse to listen and act, people will find someone who will.
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
We should do this, we should do that. Let's get real. MPs are public servants. Some are good, some are bad, some are indifferent. Some are decent; others aren't. Some hold some quite repellent views. Others are pompous arses. And plenty of others get on with trying to do a good job. Some - as we know - have defrauded the public and gone to prison. We will think what we will of them, based on the evidence. I am not going to be dragooned by some columnist into being told what to think about a class of people (in this case, MPs) just because one MP was horribly killed by a deranged loon with apparently loopy ideas.
And if MPs want our trust back they can start by bloody well earning it. By showing us through what they do that they have earned and deserve a trust. Just like the rest of us have to do with our clients and customers etc.
Trust is earned not demanded as of right.
Polls almost always show that people trust their local MP much more than the political class as a whole. Of course every MP is the local MP for around 80,000 people, and a member of the political class to the other 59million.
My local MP (Natascha Engel) seems to be quite active in the constituency (Particularly in my village !). She's replied to the letters I've sent her and her voting record indicates she doesn't always follow the Labour leadership blindly.
Who is your local MP ?
Lucky old you. Tulip Siddique. I would not normally expect to be writing to my MP. But I simply have not noticed anything about her at all. Mind you, if she's had a baby that might explain it. She may be ok. She didn't strike me as a the sharpest tool in the box in the election hustings. And it's not as if I live in a deprived area where there is much for an MP to do. Incessant business by an MP is not always a good thing.
MPs represent 80-100,000 electors. Assuming a 10hr working day, you're entitled to less than 90 seconds of her time.
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are...
But it's happening outside the EU as well and in places where the EU is irrelevant like the US. Something deeper is going on and the EU is probably neither a symptom nor a cause.
Arguably the peaceful 1990s era was the anomaly, the growth of extremism and nationalism is a return to normal patterns.
Peaceful 1990s? I must have missed them. I was too busy taking food and medical supplies to the front line in the Yugoslav (un)civil war. Where did these peaceful 1990s happen?
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are...
But it's happening outside the EU as well and in places where the EU is irrelevant like the US. Something deeper is going on and the EU is probably neither a symptom nor a cause.
Arguably the peaceful 1990s era was the anomaly, the growth of extremism and nationalism is a return to normal patterns.
Peaceful 1990s? I must have missed them. I was too busy taking food and medical supplies to the front line in the Yugoslav (un)civil war. Where did these peaceful 1990s happen?
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are...
But it's happening outside the EU as well and in places where the EU is irrelevant like the US. Something deeper is going on and the EU is probably neither a symptom nor a cause.
Arguably the peaceful 1990s era was the anomaly, the growth of extremism and nationalism is a return to normal patterns.
Peaceful? 1990s?
Gulf War Croatia Bosnia Transnistria Nagorno-Karabakh Kosovo
'The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are by always thinking that it is right and the people must obediently follow.'
Hard to find anything as remote,unaccountable and undemocratic as the EU
How about the UN, IMF, World Bank, OEDC, APEC, OPEC, ASEAN, etc?
The EU is a beacon of democracy and transparency compared with most of the transnational organisations which have such a big influence on our increasingly globalised world.
You're comparing apples and pears. Most of those organisations don't pass laws which have effect in our country, on our rights and obligations and which can result in individuals being imprisoned. For a body which seeks to be considered as a sort of government, it is remarkably undemocratic and unaccountable and this is a failing which is one of the causes, though not the only one, of people's concerns with it.
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
We should do this, we should do that. Let's get real. MPs are public servants. Some are good, some are bad, some are indifferent. Some are decent; others aren't. Some hold some quite repellent views. Others are pompous arses. And plenty of others get on with trying to do a good job. Some - as we know - have defrauded the public and gone to prison. We will think what we will of them, based on the evidence. I am not going to be dragooned by some columnist into being told what to think about a class of people (in this case, MPs) just because one MP was horribly killed by a deranged loon with apparently loopy ideas.
And if MPs want our trust back they can start by bloody well earning it. By showing us through what they do that they have earned and deserve a trust. Just like the rest of us have to do with our clients and customers etc.
Trust is earned not demanded as of right.
Polls almost always shoaround 80,000 people, and a member of the political class to the other 59million.
And how many of those voters have even encountered their local MP let alone know what he or she does? I would not be able to say that i trust my local MP because other than her party and the fact that she has had a baby recently I know nothing about her and have not seen her say or do anything in the constituency, other than as a candidate when she didn't impress me with her answers on free speech. As far as I'm concerned - and much like her predecessor - she's invisible. So I have nothing on which to make any judgment about her trustworthiness. It is quite possible that this happy situation will last for as long as she's the MP or I live here.
My local MP (Natascha Engel) seems to be quite active in the constituency (Particularly in my village !). She's replied to the letters I've sent her and her voting record indicates she doesn't always follow the Labour leadership blindly (She's currently Ways and Means so doesn't have to decide whether to follow Corbyn or not )
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are...
But it's happening outside the EU as well and in places where the EU is irrelevant like the US. Something deeper is going on and the EU is probably neither a symptom nor a cause.
Arguably the peaceful 1990s era was the anomaly, the growth of extremism and nationalism is a return to normal patterns.
Peaceful 1990s? I must have missed them. I was too busy taking food and medical supplies to the front line in the Yugoslav (un)civil war. Where did these peaceful 1990s happen?
here
Well, I think it's a bit longer since we've had a civil war...
If you count wars that impact here, then there was WW2 but the 1990s? I seem to remember the odd bit of terrorism.
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are...
But it's happening outside the EU as well and in places where the EU is irrelevant like the US. Something deeper is going on and the EU is probably neither a symptom nor a cause.
Arguably the peaceful 1990s era was the anomaly, the growth of extremism and nationalism is a return to normal patterns.
Peaceful 1990s? I must have missed them. I was too busy taking food and medical supplies to the front line in the Yugoslav (un)civil war. Where did these peaceful 1990s happen?
here
Well, I think it's a bit longer since we've had a civil war...
If you count wars that impact here, then there was WW2 but the 1990s? I seem to remember the odd bit of terrorism.
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are...
But it's happening outside the EU as well and in places where the EU is irrelevant like the US. Something deeper is going on and the EU is probably neither a symptom nor a cause.
Arguably the peaceful 1990s era was the anomaly, the growth of extremism and nationalism is a return to normal patterns.
Peaceful 1990s? I must have missed them. I was too busy taking food and medical supplies to the front line in the Yugoslav (un)civil war. Where did these peaceful 1990s happen?
here
Canary Wharf Warrington Manchester Arndale Baltic Exchange Bishopsgate
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are...
But it's happening outside the EU as well and in places where the EU is irrelevant like the US. Something deeper is going on and the EU is probably neither a symptom nor a cause.
Arguably the peaceful 1990s era was the anomaly, the growth of extremism and nationalism is a return to normal patterns.
Peaceful 1990s? I must have missed them. I was too busy taking food and medical supplies to the front line in the Yugoslav (un)civil war. Where did these peaceful 1990s happen?
here
Canary Wharf Warrington Manchester Arndale Baltic Exchange Bishopsgate
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are...
But it's happening outside the EU as well and in places where the EU is irrelevant like the US. Something deeper is going on and the EU is probably neither a symptom nor a cause.
Arguably the peaceful 1990s era was the anomaly, the growth of extremism and nationalism is a return to normal patterns.
Peaceful 1990s? I must have missed them. I was too busy taking food and medical supplies to the front line in the Yugoslav (un)civil war. Where did these peaceful 1990s happen?
here
Canary Wharf Warrington Manchester Arndale Baltic Exchange Bishopsgate
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are...
But it's happening outside the EU as well and in places where the EU is irrelevant like the US. Something deeper is going on and the EU is probably neither a symptom nor a cause.
Arguably the peaceful 1990s era was the anomaly, the growth of extremism and nationalism is a return to normal patterns.
Peaceful 1990s? I must have missed them. I was too busy taking food and medical supplies to the front line in the Yugoslav (un)civil war. Where did these peaceful 1990s happen?
here
Canary Wharf Warrington Manchester Arndale Baltic Exchange Bishopsgate
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are...
But it's happening outside the EU as well and in places where the EU is irrelevant like the US. Something deeper is going on and the EU is probably neither a symptom nor a cause.
Arguably the peaceful 1990s era was the anomaly, the growth of extremism and nationalism is a return to normal patterns.
Peaceful 1990s? I must have missed them. I was too busy taking food and medical supplies to the front line in the Yugoslav (un)civil war. Where did these peaceful 1990s happen?
here
Canary Wharf Warrington Manchester Arndale Baltic Exchange Bishopsgate
Not a huge swing to an opposition six years into a government when the governing party is in open civil war. Though I suppose you could argue this far into a referendum campaign the situation is Sui Generis.
But yes, biggest losers were UKIP by far. No sign AT ALL of them profitting from the Referendum -- even in London, they should be getting up to near 10% when their raison d'etre is the top issues of the moment.
A Con to Lab swing of 7.25% - quite a bit higher than implied by national polls.
A 7.25% against a second term government is fairly poor in general terms. Given that it's in London which by common consent is the area that Labour is doing best in at the moment it's disturbingly poor.
Maybe in a National context the Tooting result is ok, but locally it's very disappointing given the calibre of our candidate this time (and indeed last time, a sort of opposition incumbancy) and the level of effort he has put in for years now. Very cynical candidate selection from Labour too.
Maybe in a National context the Tooting result is ok, but locally it's very disappointing given the calibre of our candidate this time (and indeed last time, a sort of opposition incumbancy) and the level of effort he has put in for years now. Very cynical candidate selection from Labour too.
If you become a minority in your own area, with full face veils on your high street, foreign shops, non-English widely spoken and the mass rapes of young English girls by immigrant gangs covered up by the Police - you're dismissed as a racist by the main parties and media establishment. Is it any wonder why the EDL was formed?
EDL? Aren't they the football gangs bought up by MI5 and Mossad on the cheap?
Other than the final paragraph, 95% of that editorial was probably planned and written before the news broke. It doesn't link Farage with the murder, just points out that Jo Cox would have disapproved. Why Ms, though?
Maybe they don't want to encourage people to search for information about Brendan Cox, the scandal around him at Save the Children, his roles advising Gordon Brown, at Oxfam, at the the "working behind the scenes" charity Crisis Action, the World Economic Forum, etc.
Blimey, The Southern Poverty Law Centre have gotten involved
According to records obtained by the Southern Poverty Law Center Mair was a dedicated supporter of the National Alliance (NA), the once premier neo-Nazi organization in the United States, for decades. Mair purchased a manual from the NA in 1999 that included instructions on how to build a pistol.
That really is intelligence-agency disinformation if ever I've seen it. He bought a manual nearly 20 years ago that included instructions on how to build a pistol. So the f*** what? I own copies of CIA interrogation and US army counterinsurgency manuals.
Personally I'm careful with anyone wearing a camouflage jacket who isn't an on-duty soldier.
A Con to Lab swing of 7.25% - quite a bit higher than implied by national polls.
A 7.25% against a second term government is fairly poor in general terms. Given that it's in London which by common consent is the area that Labour is doing best in at the moment it's disturbingly poor.
But Wandsworth is not typical of London. Gentrification has been shifting the borough further to the Tories for over 30 years.
Gabriel Stein from Oxford Economics said a Brexit vote may prove to be a storm in a teacup for financial markets. There is a lot of chatter – most of its stoked by doom warnings from the very bodies supposed to uphold financial stability – but the mechanism for a credit seizure is far from obvious to veteran observers of the markets.
“I simply cannot see how it would lead to any meaningful drying up of funds. There may be a panic for a couple of days but once the central banks and the finance ministers step in to say everything is fine, I think it will subside,” he said.
It will be interesting to see what the boundary commission do with Tooting, and there are hopes thst this could deliver the seat finally, but the only good bits that could really come into the seat would be at the expense of Putney or Battersea, and if its a large enough chunk of either of those then presumably Greening or Ellison would fight the seat instead. There are certainly no rich pickings in any of the bordering wards from Streatham or M&M.
Did the BBC News channel even cover the declaration from Tooting? I happened to switch over to Sky just before the declaration was imminent, so I didn't miss it.
Left wing murderer = Left wing murderer Islamist murderer = Islamist murderer Right wing murderer = Mental Health sufferer
And please, all those saying 'it's a disgrace to politicise this', are you really asking us to believe that if the alleged shout had been 'Allah Akbar' and the man had been a brown muslim immigrant, not a native born white man you might not have, you know, just mentioned that, in passing, seeking to suggest possibly broader conclusions from it?
We don't know why Cox was murdered, or what motivated her murderer, but there's a rush to censorship we wouldn't be seeing if the circumstances had been different, in particular by some of those seeking to suppress discussion, who in other circumstances would be leading the charge.
There are many decent people involved in the campaign to secure Britain’s withdrawal from the EU, many who respect the referendum as the exercise in democracy that it is. But there are others whose recklessness has been open and shocking. I believe they bear responsibility, not for the attack itself, but for the current mood: for the inflammatory language, for the finger-jabbing, the dogwhistling and the overt racism.
Left wing murderer = Left wing murderer Islamist murderer = Islamist murderer Right wing murderer = Mental Health sufferer
And please, all those saying 'it's a disgrace to politicise this', are you really asking us to believe that if the alleged shout had been 'Allah Akbar' and the man had been a brown muslim immigrant, not a native born white man you might not have, you know, just mentioned that, in passing, seeking to suggest possibly broader conclusions from it?
We don't know why Cox was murdered, or what motivated her murderer, but there's a rush to censorship we wouldn't be seeing if the circumstances had been different, in particular by some of those seeking to suppress discussion, who in other circumstances would be leading the charge.
SWe don't know why Cox was murdered, or what motivated her murderer, but there's a rush to censorship we wouldn't be seeing if the circumstances had been different, in particular by some of those seeking to suppress discussion, who in other circumstances would be leading the charge.
Where as others persist with a disgraceful attempt to bang their favorite political drum when the body isnt yet cold, give it a rest for christ's sake.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
Where as others persist with a disgraceful attempt to bang their favorite political drum when the body isnt yet cold, give it a rest for christ's sake.
Maybe they don't want to encourage people to search for information about Brendan Cox, the scandal around him at Save the Children, his roles advising Gordon Brown, at Oxfam, at the the "working behind the scenes" charity Crisis Action, the World Economic Forum, etc.
Despite all calls for reticence and pause for mourning, the Remain Campaign and its many MSM supporters are going to rub Jo Cox' murder in Leavers faces; one way or another.
There are many decent people involved in the campaign to secure Britain’s withdrawal from the EU, many who respect the referendum as the exercise in democracy that it is. But there are others whose recklessness has been open and shocking. I believe they bear responsibility, not for the attack itself, but for the current mood: for the inflammatory language, for the finger-jabbing, the dogwhistling and the overt racism.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
There are many decent people involved in the campaign to secure Britain’s withdrawal from the EU, many who respect the referendum as the exercise in democracy that it is. But there are others whose recklessness has been open and shocking. I believe they bear responsibility, not for the attack itself, but for the current mood: for the inflammatory language, for the finger-jabbing, the dogwhistling and the overt racism.
Sanctimonious Bilge
Is that better than Vapid Bilge?
Was it you who asked if 'the attacker had a beard'?
There are many decent people involved in the campaign to secure Britain’s withdrawal from the EU, many who respect the referendum as the exercise in democracy that it is. But there are others whose recklessness has been open and shocking. I believe they bear responsibility, not for the attack itself, but for the current mood: for the inflammatory language, for the finger-jabbing, the dogwhistling and the overt racism.
Sanctimonious Bilge
Is that better than Vapid Bilge?
Was it you who asked if 'the attacker had a beard'?
No it wasn't and you know it.
Is that what you remainers are down to, smearing posters on a web blog?
There are many decent people involved in the campaign to secure Britain’s withdrawal from the EU, many who respect the referendum as the exercise in democracy that it is. But there are others whose recklessness has been open and shocking. I believe they bear responsibility, not for the attack itself, but for the current mood: for the inflammatory language, for the finger-jabbing, the dogwhistling and the overt racism.
Sanctimonious Bilge
The 'sanctimonious bilge' is coming from posters who would be all over this like a cheap suit if the assailant had been a muslim immigrant, but now cry for 'respect' and 'waiting for the facts', when the early reports are inconvenient.....
Left wing murderer = Left wing murderer Islamist murderer = Islamist murderer Right wing murderer = Mental Health sufferer
And please, all those saying 'it's a disgrace to politicise this', are you really asking us to believe that if the alleged shout had been 'Allah Akbar' and the man had been a brown muslim immigrant, not a native born white man you might not have, you know, just mentioned that, in passing, seeking to suggest possibly broader conclusions from it?
We don't know why Cox was murdered, or what motivated her murderer, but there's a rush to censorship we wouldn't be seeing if the circumstances had been different, in particular by some of those seeking to suppress discussion, who in other circumstances would be leading the charge.
If people wish to pin the blame for the murder on the Leave campaign, they'd better have much better evidence than the sly insinuations of Massie and Toynbee.
Passions do run high in this campaign, as they did in the 2015 election. If an MP had been murdered then, would it have been fitting to pin the blame on their political opponents?
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
I suspect not.
More likely will be how the break in the campaign changes the mood.
momentum was all with Leave, the break will probably help Remain
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
Yep. Before the news broke that she had died they were quoting eye witnesses saying he'd shouted "Britain First" as "he" attacked her. My instinct then was that this would turn the referendum to Remain.
Remember, this isn't really a referendum based on fact. There are a few basic principles in play but both campaigns have lied and scaremongered through their teeth. Both campaigns have bitterly attacked not just the opposite campaign but their voters as well. It has been the worst kind of bitter nasty divisive politics, and it's been building like this since the expenses scandal.
People understandably were unhappy with MPs claiming for duck moats. That built into anger, and the last 6 years has seen politicians and the press whip this into open hatred and fear. Of politicians. Of the poor. The sick. The dying. The foreign. The rich. Anyone who isn't you. Fear them. Dislike them. Shout abuse at them. Abuse them in the media, on social media, in the street.
We need a new dialogue in this country. And right now, with so little time before this vote, I can see a lot of people step back from their own invective and think. I came out yesterday and said I'd vote to leave. Partly in disgust at Osborne's punishment budget. But mainly on principle and reason about the need to change direction of the EU. For the people voting Leave for more of a gut feel issue, I do wonder if yesterday will make them reassess.
There are many decent people involved in the campaign to secure Britain’s withdrawal from the EU, many who respect the referendum as the exercise in democracy that it is. But there are others whose recklessness has been open and shocking. I believe they bear responsibility, not for the attack itself, but for the current mood: for the inflammatory language, for the finger-jabbing, the dogwhistling and the overt racism.
Sanctimonious Bilge
The 'sanctimonious bilge' is coming from posters who would be all over this like a cheap suit if the assailant had been a muslim immigrant, but now cry for 'respect' and 'waiting for the facts', when the early reports are inconvenient.....
Yeah, youve been trolling that for nearly a day now. It's boring.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
It's a political website, nobody in my house has even passed comment on it. It was all football yesterday, maybe it will be different today, but PB anoraks tend to get carried away with the politcs, voters less so.
'How about changing PM and Chancellor along with 3/4 of the cabinet without an election?'
Can't recall you demanding this in 2007 when exactly the same thing happened.
As a matter of fact, I did in 2007.
A new PM, government and manifesto needs a new mandate to have democratic validity.
We neither elect the PM nor the government. Also governments often do things that aren't in their manifesto.
'We neither elect the PM nor the government'? Really? What are general elections for, then?
To elect MPs. You can argue that's a bad system, but it's the system Britain has.
Technically correct. But had Gove, Boris, IDS and Farage been on offer as the prospective leaders of the government in 2015, I suspect we would now be governed by a coalition led by Ed Miliband and Nicola Sturgeon.
Left wing murderer = Left wing murderer Islamist murderer = Islamist murderer Right wing murderer = Mental Health sufferer
And please, all those saying 'it's a disgrace to politicise this', are you really asking us to believe that if the alleged shout had been 'Allah Akbar' and the man had been a brown muslim immigrant, not a native born white man you might not have, you know, just mentioned that, in passing, seeking to suggest possibly broader conclusions from it?
We don't know why Cox was murdered, or what motivated her murderer, but there's a rush to censorship we wouldn't be seeing if the circumstances had been different, in particular by some of those seeking to suppress discussion, who in other circumstances would be leading the charge.
If people wish to pin the blame for the murder on the Leave campaign, they'd better have much better evidence than the sly insinuations of Massie and Toynbee.
Passions do run high in this campaign, as they did in the 2015 election. If an MP had been murdered then, would it have been fitting to pin the blame on their political opponents?
Part of me wonders if HMG will try and pushback the vote.
'How about changing PM and Chancellor along with 3/4 of the cabinet without an election?'
Can't recall you demanding this in 2007 when exactly the same thing happened.
As a matter of fact, I did in 2007.
A new PM, government and manifesto needs a new mandate to have democratic validity.
We neither elect the PM nor the government. Also governments often do things that aren't in their manifesto.
'We neither elect the PM nor the government'? Really? What are general elections for, then?
To elect MPs. You can argue that's a bad system, but it's the system Britain has.
Technically correct. But had Gove, Boris, IDS and Farage been on offer as the prospective leaders of the government in 2015, I suspect we would now be governed by a coalition led by Ed Miliband and Nicola Sturgeon.
We could still be, would Gove/Boris/IDS/Farage be able to command a majority in parliament?
There are many decent people involved in the campaign to secure Britain’s withdrawal from the EU, many who respect the referendum as the exercise in democracy that it is. But there are others whose recklessness has been open and shocking. I believe they bear responsibility, not for the attack itself, but for the current mood: for the inflammatory language, for the finger-jabbing, the dogwhistling and the overt racism.
Sanctimonious Bilge
The 'sanctimonious bilge' is coming from posters who would be all over this like a cheap suit if the assailant had been a muslim immigrant, but now cry for 'respect' and 'waiting for the facts', when the early reports are inconvenient.....
If a Leave campaigner had been murdered by a Muslim, it would be grossly irresponsible to be implying that the nature of the Remain campaign had led to it.
There are many decent people involved in the campaign to secure Britain’s withdrawal from the EU, many who respect the referendum as the exercise in democracy that it is. But there are others whose recklessness has been open and shocking. I believe they bear responsibility, not for the attack itself, but for the current mood: for the inflammatory language, for the finger-jabbing, the dogwhistling and the overt racism.
Sanctimonious Bilge
The 'sanctimonious bilge' is coming from posters who would be all over this like a cheap suit if the assailant had been a muslim immigrant, but now cry for 'respect' and 'waiting for the facts', when the early reports are inconvenient.....
If a Leave campaigner had been murdered by a Muslim, it would be grossly irresponsible to be implying that the nature of the Remain campaign had led to it.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets face it - some LEAVErs aren't going to accept a loss, what ever the reason.
If it's not Cox's murder, it will be the extra registration time allowed, the government leaflet, Carney or something else.
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
'How about changing PM and Chancellor along with 3/4 of the cabinet without an election?'
Can't recall you demanding this in 2007 when exactly the same thing happened.
As a matter of fact, I did in 2007.
A new PM, government and manifesto needs a new mandate to have democratic validity.
We neither elect the PM nor the government. Also governments often do things that aren't in their manifesto.
'We neither elect the PM nor the government'? Really? What are general elections for, then?
To elect MPs. You can argue that's a bad system, but it's the system Britain has.
Technically correct. But had Gove, Boris, IDS and Farage been on offer as the prospective leaders of the government in 2015, I suspect we would now be governed by a coalition led by Ed Miliband and Nicola Sturgeon.
It also means that a government of Brexiteers cannot use the Parliament act on their policies, unless they were also in last years referendum.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets face it - some LEAVErs aren't going to accept a loss, what ever the reason.
If it's not Cox's murder, it will be the extra registration time allowed, Carney or something else.
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets face it - some LEAVErs aren't going to accept a loss, what ever the reason.
If it's not Cox's murder, it will be the extra registration time allowed, Carney or something else.
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
No - I think the UK papers this morning - with one (mercifully small circulation) glaring exception have been appropriately circumspect in their coverage - the Star headline is a disgrace - it may ultimately prove true - but we're a long way from knowing that yet.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets face it - some LEAVErs aren't going to accept a loss, what ever the reason.
If it's not Cox's murder, it will be the extra registration time allowed, Carney or something else.
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
No - I think the UK papers this morning - with one (mercifully small circulation) glaring example have been appropriately circumspect in their coverage - the Star headline is a disgrace - it may ultimately prove true - but we're a long way from knowing that yet.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
LOL
last time I looked the Star had a bigger circulation than the FT and Guardian combined.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets face it - some LEAVErs aren't going to accept a loss, what ever the reason.
If it's not Cox's murder, it will be the extra registration time allowed, Carney or something else.
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
No - I think the UK papers this morning - with one (mercifully small circulation) glaring example have been appropriately circumspect in their coverage - the Star headline is a disgrace - it may ultimately prove true - but we're a long way from knowing that yet.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
You're trying to insinuate that Leave campaigners are in some measure responsible for this murder, without being prepared to explicitly state it.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
I agree. It's all over bar the actual vote. Cameron (and Osborne) will be safe. I expected a Remain win anyway, even yesterday morning with the polls (which exclude NI & overseas voters) as they were then.
However, the break in campaigning and the increased fear (and hence fear of change) will enhance support for Remain. What has happened is tragic, and people will think twice about being associated with what they perceive as extremist xenophobes leading the Brexit campaign. There have been enough insinuations in the media, including the BBC, about the motivations of the murderer.
Maybe in a National context the Tooting result is ok, but locally it's very disappointing given the calibre of our candidate this time (and indeed last time, a sort of opposition incumbancy) and the level of effort he has put in for years now. Very cynical candidate selection from Labour too.
It's a democracy, Labour can choose any candidate they like (that meets the qualifications for being an MP)
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets face it - some LEAVErs aren't going to accept a loss, what ever the reason.
If it's not Cox's murder, it will be the extra registration time allowed, Carney or something else.
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
No - I think the UK papers this morning - with one (mercifully small circulation) glaring example have been appropriately circumspect in their coverage - the Star headline is a disgrace - it may ultimately prove true - but we're a long way from knowing that yet.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
You're trying to insinuate that Leave campaigners are in some measure responsible for this murder, without being prepared to explicitly state it.
remember the Tories are one big happy family and personal comments made before the 23 June will be forgotten afterwards,
'How about changing PM and Chancellor along with 3/4 of the cabinet without an election?'
Can't recall you demanding this in 2007 when exactly the same thing happened.
As a matter of fact, I did in 2007.
A new PM, government and manifesto needs a new mandate to have democratic validity.
We neither elect the PM nor the government. Also governments often do things that aren't in their manifesto.
'We neither elect the PM nor the government'? Really? What are general elections for, then?
To elect MPs. You can argue that's a bad system, but it's the system Britain has.
Technically correct. But had Gove, Boris, IDS and Farage been on offer as the prospective leaders of the government in 2015, I suspect we would now be governed by a coalition led by Ed Miliband and Nicola Sturgeon.
It also means that a government of Brexiteers cannot use the Parliament act on their policies, unless they were also in last years referendum.
Yes they can. You're mixing up the Parliament Act with the Salisbury convention.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets face it - some LEAVErs aren't going to accept a loss, what ever the reason.
If it's not Cox's murder, it will be the extra registration time allowed, Carney or something else.
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
No - I think the UK papers this morning - with one (mercifully small circulation) glaring example have been appropriately circumspect in their coverage - the Star headline is a disgrace - it may ultimately prove true - but we're a long way from knowing that yet.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
You're trying to insinuate that Leave campaigners are in some measure responsible for this murder, without being prepared to explicitly state it.
How it's being reported abroad:
British-born Graham Wilson, professor of political science at Boston University and an expert on British politics, said the pro-Brexit campaign "has done its best to create a climate of anger and hostility about immigration and the presence of foreigners."
"One warning of this for politicians in every country and every democracy is that if you create a climate of fear and anger targeted on foreigners and other minorities, then there will be a very, very small minority who will do horrendous things responding to that mood," he said.
There are many decent people involved in the campaign to secure Britain’s withdrawal from the EU, many who respect the referendum as the exercise in democracy that it is. But there are others whose recklessness has been open and shocking. I believe they bear responsibility, not for the attack itself, but for the current mood: for the inflammatory language, for the finger-jabbing, the dogwhistling and the overt racism.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
No - I think the UK papers this morning - with one (mercifully small circulation) glaring example have been appropriately circumspect in their coverage - the Star headline is a disgrace - it may ultimately prove true - but we're a long way from knowing that yet.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
You're trying to insinuate that Leave campaigners are in some measure responsible for this murder, without being prepared to explicitly state it.
How it's being reported abroad:
British-born Graham Wilson, professor of political science at Boston University and an expert on British politics, said the pro-Brexit campaign "has done its best to create a climate of anger and hostility about immigration and the presence of foreigners."
"One warning of this for politicians in every country and every democracy is that if you create a climate of fear and anger targeted on foreigners and other minorities, then there will be a very, very small minority who will do horrendous things responding to that mood," he said.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets face it - some LEAVErs aren't going to accept a loss, what ever the reason.
If it's not Cox's murder, it will be the extra registration time allowed, Carney or something else.
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
No - I think the UK papers this morning - with one (mercifully small circulation) glaring exception have been appropriately circumspect in their coverage - the Star headline is a disgrace - it may ultimately prove true - but we're a long way from knowing that yet.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
What Remainers aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves so desperate to keep the EU project going they will cling to a mawkish sentimentality on the back of the actions of one mentally ill person. The case for the EU has proven so impossible to make, this is their Last Best Chance....to say this mentally ill person is the poster boy for Leave. You have to admit, that is pretty sick.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets face it - some LEAVErs aren't going to accept a loss, what ever the reason.
If it's not Cox's murder, it will be the extra registration time allowed, Carney or something else.
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
No - I think the UK papers this morning - with one (mercifully small circulation) glaring example have been appropriately circumspect in their coverage - the Star headline is a disgrace - it may ultimately prove true - but we're a long way from knowing that yet.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
last time I looked the Star had a bigger circulation than the FT and Guardian combined.
But a quarter of that of either the Mail or the Sun, half the Mirror and a shade less than the Telegraph.
I doubt either the Guardian or the FT has many EURef undecideds among their readers.....
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
No - I think the UK papers this morning - with one (mercifully small circulation) glaring example have been appropriately circumspect in their coverage - the Star headline is a disgrace - it may ultimately prove true - but we're a long way from knowing that yet.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
How it's being reported abroad:
British-born Graham Wilson, professor of political science at Boston University and an expert on British politics, said the pro-Brexit campaign "has done its best to create a climate of anger and hostility about immigration and the presence of foreigners."
"One warning of this for politicians in every country and every democracy is that if you create a climate of fear and anger targeted on foreigners and other minorities, then there will be a very, very small minority who will do horrendous things responding to that mood," he said.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does, it won't settle anything because any Remain win will be "blamed" on this unfortunate tragedy happening so close to the vote.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
No - I think the UK papers this morning - with one (mercifully small circulation) glaring example have been appropriately circumspect in their coverage - the Star headline is a disgrace - it may ultimately prove true - but we're a long way from knowing that yet.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
You're trying to insinuate that Leave campaigners are in some measure responsible for this murder, without being prepared to explicitly state it.
On topic I don't agree that politics doesn't matter after what appears to be a political assassination. Of course politics matters, it's all about politics.
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
A lie is halfway round the world whilst the truth is putting on its shoe.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
If it does,
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
Lets
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
And you seem to think anything is justified in your quest to secure a Remain vote.
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
No - I think the UK papers this morning - with one (mercifully small circulation) glaring example have been appropriately circumspect in their coverage - the Star headline is a disgrace - it may ultimately prove true - but we're a long way from knowing that yet.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
How it's being reported abroad:
British-born Graham Wilson, professor of political science at Boston University and an expert on British politics, said the pro-Brexit campaign "has done its best to create a climate of anger and hostility about immigration and the presence of foreigners."
"One warning of this for politicians in every country and every democracy is that if you create a climate of fear and anger targeted on foreigners and other minorities, then there will be a very, very small minority who will do horrendous things responding to that mood," he said.
Comments
In the USA they can change presidents, and an entire cabinet without an election, though it does require the untimely demise or impeachment of the president.
https://twitter.com/TimesPictures/status/648857617763291141
And now it's really time for sleep.
If you become a minority in your own area, with full face veils on your high street, foreign shops, non-English widely spoken and the mass rapes of young English girls by immigrant gangs covered up by the Police - you're dismissed as a racist by the main parties and media establishment. Is it any wonder why the EDL was formed?
If the main parties refuse to listen and act, people will find someone who will.
Gulf War
Croatia
Bosnia
Transnistria
Nagorno-Karabakh
Kosovo
If you count wars that impact here, then there was WW2 but the 1990s? I seem to remember the odd bit of terrorism.
http://www.fallen.io/ww2/
'How about changing PM and Chancellor along with 3/4 of the cabinet without an election?'
Can't recall you demanding this in 2007 when exactly the same thing happened.
Warrington
Manchester Arndale
Baltic Exchange
Bishopsgate
Tooting, result:
LAB: 55.9% (+8.7)
CON: 36.1% (-5.8)
GRN: 2.6% (-1.5)
LDEM: 2.6% (-1.4)
UKIP: 1.6% (-1.3)
But yes, biggest losers were UKIP by far. No sign AT ALL of them profitting from the Referendum -- even in London, they should be getting up to near 10% when their raison d'etre is the top issues of the moment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InKKQHU4ldk
http://www.bettingpro.com/category/political-betting/labour-odds-on-to-win-tooting-by-election-20160509-0018/
It'd be interesting to see a by-election in a marginal seat outside London.
Personally I'm careful with anyone wearing a camouflage jacket who isn't an on-duty soldier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbM6WbUw7Bs
Some people just can't help themselves.
Left wing murderer = Left wing murderer
Islamist murderer = Islamist murderer
Right wing murderer = Mental Health sufferer
And please, all those saying 'it's a disgrace to politicise this', are you really asking us to believe that if the alleged shout had been 'Allah Akbar' and the man had been a brown muslim immigrant, not a native born white man you might not have, you know, just mentioned that, in passing, seeking to suggest possibly broader conclusions from it?
We don't know why Cox was murdered, or what motivated her murderer, but there's a rush to censorship we wouldn't be seeing if the circumstances had been different, in particular by some of those seeking to suppress discussion, who in other circumstances would be leading the charge.
There are many decent people involved in the campaign to secure Britain’s withdrawal from the EU, many who respect the referendum as the exercise in democracy that it is. But there are others whose recklessness has been open and shocking. I believe they bear responsibility, not for the attack itself, but for the current mood: for the inflammatory language, for the finger-jabbing, the dogwhistling and the overt racism.
http://tinyurl.com/js9prqt
That said the initial reporting at times like this usually turns out to be wrong, so it's worth holding back conclusions and waiting for better information.
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/brexit/brexit-briten-koennten-ab-24-juni-eu-recht-brechen-14292332.html
Brexiter killer will be the narrative.
Regardless of the truth, I expect this event to swing the result to remain. Who would want to line up beside the "Brexit killer"
Was it you who asked if 'the attacker had a beard'?
Is that what you remainers are down to, smearing posters on a web blog?
A new PM, government and manifesto needs a new mandate to have democratic validity.
Passions do run high in this campaign, as they did in the 2015 election. If an MP had been murdered then, would it have been fitting to pin the blame on their political opponents?
More likely will be how the break in the campaign changes the mood.
momentum was all with Leave, the break will probably help Remain
A pretty convincing win. It shows what can be done by a good local candidate.
Remember, this isn't really a referendum based on fact. There are a few basic principles in play but both campaigns have lied and scaremongered through their teeth. Both campaigns have bitterly attacked not just the opposite campaign but their voters as well. It has been the worst kind of bitter nasty divisive politics, and it's been building like this since the expenses scandal.
People understandably were unhappy with MPs claiming for duck moats. That built into anger, and the last 6 years has seen politicians and the press whip this into open hatred and fear. Of politicians. Of the poor. The sick. The dying. The foreign. The rich. Anyone who isn't you. Fear them. Dislike them. Shout abuse at them. Abuse them in the media, on social media, in the street.
We need a new dialogue in this country. And right now, with so little time before this vote, I can see a lot of people step back from their own invective and think. I came out yesterday and said I'd vote to leave. Partly in disgust at Osborne's punishment budget. But mainly on principle and reason about the need to change direction of the EU. For the people voting Leave for more of a gut feel issue, I do wonder if yesterday will make them reassess.
The more desperate Remainers should be very careful what they wish for.
It's all wank.
If it's not Cox's murder, it will be the extra registration time allowed, the government leaflet, Carney or something else.
And LEAVE are supposed to be in this for 'democracy' and 'sovereignty'
But only if the answer's the right one.
'Sanctimonious Bilge' indeed!
Be careful: a lot of your fraternity will agree with you, but this could very easily backfire.
What LEAVErs aren't enjoying this morning, I'd suggest - is seeing themselves reported as others see them - can't make comfortable reading - but then little in this life is consequence free.
This was a pretty good result for Labour, considering the context of the referendum and this been a flagship Tory council for years.
last time I looked the Star had a bigger circulation than the FT and Guardian combined.
However, the break in campaigning and the increased fear (and hence fear of change) will enhance support for Remain. What has happened is tragic, and people will think twice about being associated with what they perceive as extremist xenophobes leading the Brexit campaign. There have been enough insinuations in the media, including the BBC, about the motivations of the murderer.
by all the other political parties too.
British-born Graham Wilson, professor of political science at Boston University and an expert on British politics, said the pro-Brexit campaign "has done its best to create a climate of anger and hostility about immigration and the presence of foreigners."
"One warning of this for politicians in every country and every democracy is that if you create a climate of fear and anger targeted on foreigners and other minorities, then there will be a very, very small minority who will do horrendous things responding to that mood," he said.
http://www.wlbz2.com/news/nation-now/uk-assassination-casts-shadow-over-brexit-campaigns/246220423
I doubt either the Guardian or the FT has many EURef undecideds among their readers.....
Or is that only if someone else does it?