BBC 10 pm news leading with witness saying he shouted 'Britain First'
Even if I thought this guy was 100% motivated by Brexit [entirely unproved at the moment] and had no mental issues [they are highly suggested at the moment], why would that change my, or anyone's, vote?
I believe a Leave vote would reduce such tensions on all sides, which is just another good reason to make sure I vote for it.
The EU is unaccountable, irreformable, has lost control, and has the smell of death about it.
We don't need a bail-out, but it's certainly time for our bale-out...
Yep the right time to employ hyperbole that the EU has the smell of death about it.
...migrant hordes terrorizing their way into the Continent by sheer force of numbers, murderous terrorists roaming and killing freely around European capitals, countless corpses of criminal so-called asylum-seekers washing up on European shores...
All is well. Situation normal. The EU project goes from strength to strength...
OMG Rod....I'm shocked that someone could have so much hatred against humanity within them
I have a love of humanity. But my love of Truth is greater still...
I genuinely feel sorry for you...
You'd be better employed dribbling your intellectual vacuity on someone else.
This simply reflects the available information so far online, in a vacuum of official sources, rather than a necessary agenda.
But the article seems contradictory.
It begins by saying 10 years ago, the Springbok Club magazine lost touch with a Tommy Mair.
"The link between Mair and the Springbok Club goes back ten years when its online magazine, the Springbok Cyber Newsletter, was inquiring about the whereabouts of “Thomas Mair, from Batley in Yorkshire [who] was one of the earliest subscribers and supporters of “S.A. Patriot” who has moved from his address in the Fieldhead Estate district of the town.”
It then quotes a neighbour who says
“He's lived there longer than me and I've lived here since 1975. I still can't believe it. He's the last guy I would have thought of.
So, the Tommy Mair who killed Jo Cox hasn’t moved for 40 years.
I suspect we’re better off waiting for the police to tell us, rather than rely on journalists googling the internet.
Yes ; but my point was that this represents the only information journalists can find online until then, rather than any necessary conspiracy.
I have now seen two full newspaper pages that were so sinister and disgusting I thought they were some sort of sick spoof. Call the campaign off. Call the fucking referendum off. The country has gone mad. What a sad, sad day.
Sad indeed, but if there is a sickness, it needs addressing. Better or worse, the referendum will be a lancing. Hopefully the sickness is a boil which lancing will address, and not something more serious.
kle4- how is this referendum going to lance any boil? I was at a conference some years ago and said publicly the worst thing we could do is be honest with each other. I don't think my marriage would last one extra day if we were both completely honest with each other. Relationships are all sustained by us tempering what we actually think.
This referendum has given carte blanche for everyone to say exactly what they want to. How the hell do you get back from that?
The motivation doesn't matter and we don't yet know it. However she was killed while carrying out her role as an MP. Constituency Surgeries are at the heart of the system. Recall is therefore perfectly justified. Given where we are in the Referendum campaign it's also a highly political act which will affect the media cycle. However recall can be justified.
Yes indeed, the festooning of the Commons chamber with Project Fear banners and earnest statements by both sides about what a state of emergency we are in a recall of Parliament will "affect the media cycle", if that is a fancy way of saying it will swamp out what would otherwise have been in the media about the opposing arguments in the referendum.
There is no case for recall, because there is nothing urgent for the House of Commons to decide in connection with the murder. They're enough of a talking shop as it is.
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
The stoking of anti-establishment feeling, rising anti-intellectualism and the rubbishing of those who know their field at the expense of truthiness.
I see the Spanish were getting all worked up over Cameron planning to head to Gibraltar. It's just automatic complaints, I assume, since what legitimate grounds for complaint could they really have for the PM of the UK visiting a British Overseas Territory which has a vote on the referendum question?
The motivation doesn't matter and we don't yet know it. However she was killed while carrying out her role as an MP. Constituency Surgeries are at the heart of the system. Recall is therefore perfectly justified. Given where we are in the Referendum campaign it's also a highly political act which will affect the media cycle. However recall can be justified.
Yes indeed, the festooning of the Commons chamber with Project Fear banners and earnest statements by both sides about what a state of emergency we are in a recall of Parliament will "affect the media cycle", if that is a fancy way of saying it will swamp out what would otherwise have been in the media about the opposing arguments in the referendum.
There is no case for recall, because there is nothing urgent for the House of Commons to decide in connection with the murder. They're enough of a talking shop as it is.
The campaigns are suspended for several days as per BBC News at Ten, so it wouldn't otherwise be filled with referendum arguments.
The motivation doesn't matter and we don't yet know it. However she was killed while carrying out her role as an MP. Constituency Surgeries are at the heart of the system. Recall is therefore perfectly justified. Given where we are in the Referendum campaign it's also a highly political act which will affect the media cycle. However recall can be justified.
Yes indeed it will "affect the media cycle", if that is a fancy way of saying it will swamp out what would otherwise have been in the media about the opposing arguments in the referendum.
There is no case for recall, because there is nothing urgent for the House of Commons to decide in connection with the murder.
I have now seen two full newspaper pages that were so sinister and disgusting I thought they were some sort of sick spoof. Call the campaign off. Call the fucking referendum off. The country has gone mad. What a sad, sad day.
Whilst it is clearly difficult to find words to describe the crassness of the Star frontpage, i'm struggling to understand how it could be suggested that it is linked to its pro-Brexit agenda? Or have I misunderstood - how could such a headline be anything but bad for the Leave campaign?
I thought the same. But we shouldn't underestimate the skill involved in writing headlines for the Sun or even the Star. Maybe the idea is that it puts the word "Brexit" out there?
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
We give MPs a lot of stick, but most of the hyperbolic ire directed at them is, naturally, overblown and unfair, particularly the ones who are not even seeking the limelight and doing the front rank things we dislike most about our political classes.
I find having met a number of local councillors, a great many of whom are capable, hard working and decent people trying to do their best and work with even opponents for their communities, I have come to respect elected representatives a great deal more and try to give MPs a fair shake.
I feel that it would be dishonest to end being sceptical about MPs.
It is only 2 days since I was watching - in my opinion - a mortgage fraudster questioning Philip Green about business propriety as if butter wouldn't melt.
I despise myself for even making a comment like this on a day when a young mother has lost her life in such awful circumstances but now that the Daily Star has linked the murder to Brexit I'm afraid a lot will change in relation to the In/Out arguments.
There has always been a nasty element on the far left and the far right. But I genuinely was enthused during the EU referendum campaign because the (much maligned, oft ignored) working classes were getting involved (despite the underlying nastiness of the anti-foreigner lot). Not all the working classes are Brexit by a long chalk, but it's great that disenfranchised people have been genuinely inspired to exercise their democratic right and have their say.
I still thought Remain would win even after this morning's polls but the genuine discomfort the establishment were having trying to keep the voters in line was enjoyable and refreshing. The campaign genuinely cut across party lines and I felt that was good for democracy, whatever the result.
The whole thing will be hijacked now by clever commentators, particularly on Twitter, who will link the murder to suit their agenda (it happens on the other side when Islamists kill). Just looking through my Twitter feed tonight I'm saddened. The allegations and accusations and aspersions are flying about. I don't have any enthusiasm for that .
Jo Cox is said to have been a genuine talent who cared deeply about important issues like the plight of the Syrian children. I'd hope her death - whatever the result of the EU referendum - would bring some higher purpose and less cynical point scoring to the discourse. None of us mind a left versus right political scrap, especially if it's intelligent and well-argued, and we all get along pretty amicably nonetheless. But judging by Twitter tonight and that Daily Star headline, things are only going to get worse.
How terribly sad is that? For the first time in ages I'd felt properly enthusiastic but now I feel like switching off my Internet.
For the first time today I think that Jeremy Corbyn spoke for the whole Labour party. He was pitch perfect and immensely generous, clearly moved too. Theresa May, George Osborne and, especially, Andrew Mitchell have all gone up in my estimation. It's at times like these - and, sadly, really only at these times - that you see the genuine goodness in those who you disagree with politically.
I wish there was something profound to say. But there isn't. This has been a bleak day for our country.
I have now seen two full newspaper pages that were so sinister and disgusting I thought they were some sort of sick spoof. Call the campaign off. Call the fucking referendum off. The country has gone mad. What a sad, sad day.
Sad indeed, but if there is a sickness, it needs addressing. Better or worse, the referendum will be a lancing. Hopefully the sickness is a boil which lancing will address, and not something more serious.
kle4- how is this referendum going to lance any boil? I was at a conference some years ago and said publicly the worst thing we could do is be honest with each other. I don't think my marriage would last one extra day if we were both completely honest with each other. Relationships are all sustained by us tempering what we actually think.
This referendum has given carte blanche for everyone to say exactly what they want to. How the hell do you get back from that?
I said hopefully it will lance a boil, by settling whether we are indeed in or out, for better or worse. One way or another we then have to deal with the aftermath, and hopefully there will be less time for such introspection to the point of self destruction.
Of course, it may be we are sicker than it appears, and this will break us. Though I am concern at the economic impacts of Brexit, to the point I would guiltedly have some measure of relief at not having to bear responsibility for it should Remain win, I don't happen to think the country is so broken that the referendum lancing will kill us.
Though it seems a minority view on here I think I agree with HYUFD that this will probably stop the Leave bandwagon dead in its tracks and Remain will most likely limp over the line. If only because it will force Leave to heavily ease off on the immigration rhetoric. The luckiest politician of our times, David Cameron, may well snatch victory from the jaws of defeat yet again.
I expected and predicted fireworks and now we have had some. I think there will be more and bigger before next Thursday. This isn't over yet.
There won't be stasis. Who knows what effect the reporting of the murder and the responses to it have had on people's voting intentions? Few will think "A pro-Remain MP got murdered, so the Poles won't be undercutting me in the labour market any more". Probably most intending Leave voters know full well that there are at least a few nutcases on the Leave side, so perhaps it won't have much effect. Or perhaps it will help Remain get its vote out, or for some who were getting enthusiastic about voting Leave perhaps it will take the edge off their expected enjoyment and cause them to stay at home. Those who get the results of private polls conducted this afternoon and tomorrow will be able to form some kind of informed view. For the record, I doubt this murder has won the referendum for Remain.
Tomorrow is triple witching day on the derivatives markets. That means markets will be very sensitive to manipulation, which because of the imminent expiration deadline comes cheaper than on other days.
Then on Saturday campaigning starts again, in time for the Sunday newspapers.
The big thing today is that Question Time has been stopped. It was two TV shows around a week ago that gave Leave its big push forward in the polls. Cameron ballsed up.
What happens in the big TV shows to come is going to be interesting.
Going to bed unhappier than I have been in a very long time. What has happened today has been truly truly frightful, and also (I will get pilloried probably rightly for airing this at this time) if I am being completely honest because I am a Leaver who thought Leave never stood a chance - until these past couple of weeks. They might, just might. And now? I think it's gone. It's always the thing you can never foresee in a million years that screw you on campaigns. This horrendous murder, this inexplicable act, is that thing.
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
We give MPs a lot of stick, but most of the hyperbolic ire directed at them is, naturally, overblown and unfair, particularly the ones who are not even seeking the limelight and doing the front rank things we dislike most about our political classes.
I find having met a number of local councillors, a great many of whom are capable, hard working and decent people trying to do their best and work with even opponents for their communities, I have come to respect elected representatives a great deal more and try to give MPs a fair shake.
I feel that it would be dishonest to end being sceptical about MPs.
I certainly wasn't suggesting we stop being sceptical about them! Some are fully deserving of the overall reputation, and I don't have a problem holding MPs to a higher standard than myself or other people, on the justification each has a share in the ruling of this nation and thus power over us all. I just try to recognise the good work of many and that they can get a bad rap sometimes for unwarranted reasons.
For the first time today I think that Jeremy Corbyn spoke for the whole Labour party. He was pitch perfect and immensely generous, clearly moved too. Theresa May, George Osborne and, especially, Andrew Mitchell have all gone up in my estimation. It's at times like these - and, sadly, really only at these times - that you see the genuine goodness in those who you disagree with politically.
I wish there was something profound to say. But there isn't. This has been a bleak day for our country.
It is a dark day indeed for the UK. I fear this murder and the Farage poster happening on the same day is a Synchronicity.
The motivation doesn't matter and we don't yet know it. However she was killed while carrying out her role as an MP. Constituency Surgeries are at the heart of the system. Recall is therefore perfectly justified. Given where we are in the Referendum campaign it's also a highly political act which will affect the media cycle. However recall can be justified.
Yes indeed, the festooning of the Commons chamber with Project Fear banners and earnest statements by both sides about what a state of emergency we are in a recall of Parliament will "affect the media cycle", if that is a fancy way of saying it will swamp out what would otherwise have been in the media about the opposing arguments in the referendum.
There is no case for recall, because there is nothing urgent for the House of Commons to decide in connection with the murder. They're enough of a talking shop as it is.
The campaigns are suspended for several days as per BBC News at Ten, so it wouldn't otherwise be filled with referendum arguments.
Though it seems a minority view on here I think I agree with HYUFD that this will probably stop the Leave bandwagon dead in its tracks and Remain will most likely limp over the line. If only because it will force Leave to heavily ease off on the immigration rhetoric. The luckiest politician of our times, David Cameron, may well snatch victory from the jaws of defeat yet again.
I expected and predicted fireworks and now we have had some. I think there will be more and bigger before next Thursday. This isn't over yet.
There won't be stasis. Who knows what effect the reporting of the murder and the responses to it have had on people's voting intentions? Few will think "A pro-Remain MP got murdered, so the Poles won't be undercutting me in the labour market any more". Probably most intending Leave voters know full well that there are at least a few nutcases on the Leave side, so perhaps it won't have much effect. Or perhaps it will help Remain get its vote out, or for some who were getting enthusiastic about voting Leave perhaps it will take the edge off their expected enjoyment and cause them to stay at home. Those who get the results of private polls conducted this afternoon and tomorrow will be able to form some kind of informed view. For the record, I doubt this murder has won the referendum for Remain.
Tomorrow is triple witching day on the derivatives markets. That means markets will be very sensitive to manipulation, which because of the imminent expiration deadline comes cheaper than on other days.
Then on Saturday campaigning starts again, in time for the Sunday newspapers.
The big thing today is that Question Time has been stopped. It was two TV shows around a week ago that gave Leave its big push forward in the polls. Cameron ballsed up.
What happens in the big TV shows to come is going to be interesting.
On the other hand, Leave is in the lead, this weekend is Remain's last chance to throw everything in terms of scare stories and it won't be able to (or not to anywhere near the same degree).
But who knows, the next week is going to be very unpredictable, and the way people react to this tragedy is the most unpredictable thing.
One of the worst things about some of the Islamist things that happen is people acting as deniers and apologists and pretending they weren't really muslims or whatever.
The man is obviously at the very fringe of extreme right wing opinion and mental health. Let's be honest about it, and insist that the law deals with it.
No excuses, no grumbles, no denials - just an unequivocal condemnation of his actions and expectation that the law deals with him.
I'm a Leaver, but violent right wing extremism is every bit as bad as other versions and has no place in the UK.
It's a sick, desperate smear from a losing coterie of metropolitan Euro-troughers.
I don't care whether the guy is Verwoerd's or Hitler's love-child.
It's irrelevant to the question before us, and the future of this country - except in the entirely tangential sense that lancing this boil might reduce extremism/mental health issues on all sides of the issue. A welcome bonus, if so...
Britain Elects @britainelects 37s37 seconds ago Tooting by-election turnout 42.5%, down from 69.7% in 2015.
Not bad for a by-election though
Especially when it's been so low-profile, and overshadowed by the referendum.
Following on from the surprisingly strong turnout in the mayoral election too, could it be that there has been a genuine increase in interest in politics?
Though it seems a minority view on here I think I agree with HYUFD that this will probably stop the Leave bandwagon dead in its tracks and Remain will most likely limp over the line. If only because it will force Leave to heavily ease off on the immigration rhetoric. The luckiest politician of our times, David Cameron, may well snatch victory from the jaws of defeat yet again.
I expected and predicted fireworks and now we have had some. I think there will be more and bigger before next Thursday. This isn't over yet.
There won't be stasis. Who knows what effect the reporting of the murder and the responses to it have had on people's voting intentions? Few will think "A pro-Remain MP got murdered, so the Poles won't be undercutting me in the labour market any more". Probably most intending Leave voters know full well that there are at least a few nutcases on the Leave side, so perhaps it won't have much effect. Or perhaps it will help Remain get its vote out, or for some who were getting enthusiastic about voting Leave perhaps it will take the edge off their expected enjoyment and cause them to stay at home. Those who get the results of private polls conducted this afternoon and tomorrow will be able to form some kind of informed view. For the record, I doubt this murder has won the referendum for Remain.
Tomorrow is triple witching day on the derivatives markets. That means markets will be very sensitive to manipulation, which because of the imminent expiration deadline comes cheaper than on other days.
Then on Saturday campaigning starts again, in time for the Sunday newspapers.
The big thing today is that Question Time has been stopped. It was two TV shows around a week ago that gave Leave its big push forward in the polls. Cameron ballsed up.
What happens in the big TV shows to come is going to be interesting.
Going to bed unhappier than I have been in a very long time. What has happened today has been truly truly frightful, and also (I will get pilloried probably rightly for airing this at this time) if I am being completely honest because I am a Leaver who thought Leave never stood a chance - until these past couple of weeks. They might, just might. And now? I think it's gone. It's always the thing you can never foresee in a million years that screw you on campaigns. This horrendous murder, this inexplicable act, is that thing.
For the first time today I think that Jeremy Corbyn spoke for the whole Labour party. He was pitch perfect and immensely generous, clearly moved too. Theresa May, George Osborne and, especially, Andrew Mitchell have all gone up in my estimation. It's at times like these - and, sadly, really only at these times - that you see the genuine goodness in those who you disagree with politically.
I wish there was something profound to say. But there isn't. This has been a bleak day for our country.
It is a dark day indeed for the UK. I fear this murder and the Farage poster happening on the same day is a Synchronicity.
The Farage poster is sickening. Even on a day such as this, I can't find anything in me but contempt for him. Sadly, his is a name that many outside the UK are becoming familiar with and associating us with.
One of the worst things about some of the Islamist things that happen is people acting as deniers and apologists and pretending they weren't really muslims or whatever.
The man is obviously at the very fringe of extreme right wing opinion and mental health. Let's be honest about it, and insist that the law deals with it.
No excuses, no grumbles, no denials - just an unequivocal condemnation of his actions and expectation that the law deals with him.
I'm a Leaver, but violent right wing extremism is every bit as bad as other versions and has no place in the UK.
It's a sick, desperate smear from a losing coterie of metropolitan Euro-troughers.
I don't care whether the guy is Verwoerd's or Hitler's love-child.
It's irrelevant to the question before us, and the future of this country - except in the entirely tangential sense that lancing this boil might reduce extremism/mental health issues on all sides of the issue. A welcome bonus, if so...
I'd like to think the thesis/antithesis nature of this Referendum will lead to Jungian Individuation. But I'm a Freudian on this. There's a good evolutionary we lock certain stuff in our subconsciouses and never let it entirely out. I think this Referendum has smashed the Padlock.
Britain Elects @britainelects 37s37 seconds ago Tooting by-election turnout 42.5%, down from 69.7% in 2015.
Not bad for a by-election though
Especially when it's been so low-profile, and overshadowed by the referendum.
Following on from the surprisingly strong turnout in the mayoral election too, could it be that there has been a genuine increase in interest in politics?
that increase in turnout was due to fewer peopleon the electroal roll.
Though it seems a minority view on here I think I agree with HYUFD that this will probably stop the Leave bandwagon dead in its tracks and Remain will most likely limp over the line. If only because it will force Leave to heavily ease off on the immigration rhetoric. The luckiest politician of our times, David Cameron, may well snatch victory from the jaws of defeat yet again.
I expected and predicted fireworks and now we have had some. I think there will be more and bigger before next Thursday. This isn't over yet.
There won't be stasis. Who knows what effect the reporting of the murder and the responses to it have had on people's voting intentions? Few will think "A pro-Remain MP got murdered, so the Poles won't be undercutting me in the labour market any more". Probably most intending Leave voters know full well that there are at least a few nutcases on the Leave side, so perhaps it won't have much effect. Or perhaps it will help Remain get its vote out, or for some who were getting enthusiastic about voting Leave perhaps it will take the edge off their expected enjoyment and cause them to stay at home. Those who get the results of private polls conducted this afternoon and tomorrow will be able to form some kind of informed view. For the record, I doubt this murder has won the referendum for Remain.
Tomorrow is triple witching day on the derivatives markets. That means markets will be very sensitive to manipulation, which because of the imminent expiration deadline comes cheaper than on other days.
Then on Saturday campaigning starts again, in time for the Sunday newspapers.
The big thing today is that Question Time has been stopped. It was two TV shows around a week ago that gave Leave its big push forward in the polls. Cameron ballsed up.
What happens in the big TV shows to come is going to be interesting.
Going to bed unhappier than I have been in a very long time. What has happened today has been truly truly frightful, and also (I will get pilloried probably rightly for airing this at this time) if I am being completely honest because I am a Leaver who thought Leave never stood a chance - until these past couple of weeks. They might, just might. And now? I think it's gone. It's always the thing you can never foresee in a million years that screw you on campaigns. This horrendous murder, this inexplicable act, is that thing.
Just being honest.
Night.
That is EXACTLY how I feel.
I doubt it will change anything. It certainly shouldn't. This bloke was acting alone. He had serious personal issues. This is not a Leave v Remain thing.
For the first time today I think that Jeremy Corbyn spoke for the whole Labour party. He was pitch perfect and immensely generous, clearly moved too. Theresa May, George Osborne and, especially, Andrew Mitchell have all gone up in my estimation. It's at times like these - and, sadly, really only at these times - that you see the genuine goodness in those who you disagree with politically.
I wish there was something profound to say. But there isn't. This has been a bleak day for our country.
It is a dark day indeed for the UK. I fear this murder and the Farage poster happening on the same day is a Synchronicity.
The Farage poster is sickening. Even on a day such as this, I can't find anything in me but contempt for him. Sadly, he is a name that many outside the UK are becoming familiar with and associating us with.
It's a disgrace, as is Alex Massie and the Guardian editorial linking it to Jo Cox' death. Every time one side sinks, the other manages to pull out a new low.
At least George Osborne was off the airwaves with his budget tosh today (Even before the tragic events).
Though it seems a minority view on here I think I agree with HYUFD that this will probably stop the Leave bandwagon dead in its tracks and Remain will most likely limp over the line. If only because it will force Leave to heavily ease off on the immigration rhetoric. The luckiest politician of our times, David Cameron, may well snatch victory from the jaws of defeat yet again.
I expected and predicted fireworks and now we have had some. I think there will be more and bigger before next Thursday. This isn't over yet.
There won't be stasis. Who knows what effect the reporting of the murder and the responses to it have had on people's voting intentions? Few will think "A pro-Remain MP got murdered, so the Poles won't be undercutting me in the labour market any more". Probably most intending Leave voters know full well that there are at least a few nutcases on the Leave side, so perhaps it won't have much effect. Or perhaps it will help Remain get its vote out, or for some who were getting enthusiastic about voting Leave perhaps it will take the edge off their expected enjoyment and cause them to stay at home. Those who get the results of private polls conducted this afternoon and tomorrow will be able to form some kind of informed view. For the record, I doubt this murder has won the referendum for Remain.
Tomorrow is triple witching day on the derivatives markets. That means markets will be very sensitive to manipulation, which because of the imminent expiration deadline comes cheaper than on other days.
Then on Saturday campaigning starts again, in time for the Sunday newspapers.
The big thing today is that Question Time has been stopped. It was two TV shows around a week ago that gave Leave its big push forward in the polls. Cameron ballsed up.
What happens in the big TV shows to come is going to be interesting.
Going to bed unhappier than I have been in a very long time. What has happened today has been truly truly frightful, and also (I will get pilloried probably rightly for airing this at this time) if I am being completely honest because I am a Leaver who thought Leave never stood a chance - until these past couple of weeks. They might, just might. And now? I think it's gone. It's always the thing you can never foresee in a million years that screw you on campaigns. This horrendous murder, this inexplicable act, is that thing.
Just being honest.
Night.
That is EXACTLY how I feel.
I doubt it will change anything. It certainly shouldn't. This bloke was acting alone. He had serious personal issues. This is not a Leave v Remain thing.
I doubt it will change anything. It certainly shouldn't. This bloke was acting alone. He had serious personal issues. This is not a Leave v Remain thing.
the-guardian-view
We are in the midst of what risks becoming a plebiscite on immigration and immigrants. The tone is divisive and nasty. Nigel Farage on Thursday unveiled a poster of unprecedented repugnance. The backdrop was a long and thronging line of displaced people in flight. The message: “The EU has failed us all.” The headline: “Breaking point.” The time for imagining that the Europhobes can be engaged on the basis of facts – such as the reality that a refugee crisis that started in Syria and north Africa can hardly be blamed on the EU, or the inconvenient detail that obligations under the refugee convention do not depend on EU membership – has passed. One might have still hoped, however, that even merchants of post-truth politics might hold back from the sort of entirely post-moral politics that is involved in taking the great humanitarian crisis of our time, and then whipping up hostility to the victims as a means of chivvying voters into turning their backs on the world.
The idealism of Ms Cox was the very antithesis of such brutal cynicism. Honour her memory. Because the values and the commitment that she embodied are all that we have to keep barbarism at bay.
Labourlist saying the "early signs are positive for Labour" in Tooting.
Then again, I recall they said something similar about the Bradford West in 2012...
Ahaha heh
The way Wandsworth counts votes, it's quite easy to see them piling up for one party or the other. Caveat that strong areas could be circumstance be being counted first, but not that likely.
I doubt it will change anything. It certainly shouldn't. This bloke was acting alone. He had serious personal issues. This is not a Leave v Remain thing.
the-guardian-view
We are in the midst of what risks becoming a plebiscite on immigration and immigrants. The tone is divisive and nasty. Nigel Farage on Thursday unveiled a poster of unprecedented repugnance. The backdrop was a long and thronging line of displaced people in flight. The message: “The EU has failed us all.” The headline: “Breaking point.” The time for imagining that the Europhobes can be engaged on the basis of facts – such as the reality that a refugee crisis that started in Syria and north Africa can hardly be blamed on the EU, or the inconvenient detail that obligations under the refugee convention do not depend on EU membership – has passed. One might have still hoped, however, that even merchants of post-truth politics might hold back from the sort of entirely post-moral politics that is involved in taking the great humanitarian crisis of our time, and then whipping up hostility to the victims as a means of chivvying voters into turning their backs on the world.
The idealism of Ms Cox was the very antithesis of such brutal cynicism. Honour her memory. Because the values and the commitment that she embodied are all that we have to keep barbarism at bay.
Is there supposed to be something wrong with that editorial?
Labourlist saying the "early signs are positive for Labour" in Tooting.
Then again, I recall they said something similar about the Bradford West in 2012...
Well it's just what you say at such things. Like claiming a win in a safe seat shows how the government is losing support - it may or may not be true, but it doesn't matter as it gets said anyway.
But seriously no chance of losing in tooting surely? Who woukd they lose to, the Tories, right now?
Labourlist saying the "early signs are positive for Labour" in Tooting.
Then again, I recall they said something similar about the Bradford West in 2012...
Ahaha heh
Team Miliband was really spectacularly crap at expectations management.
Team Corbyn are pretty good at it by contrast, or their rivals do it for them - they did better than expected in the locals but even if they had done as predicted they'd laid groundwork that it would be OK.
I doubt it will change anything. It certainly shouldn't. This bloke was acting alone. He had serious personal issues. This is not a Leave v Remain thing.
the-guardian-view
We are in the midst of what risks becoming a plebiscite on immigration and immigrants. The tone is divisive and nasty. Nigel Farage on Thursday unveiled a poster of unprecedented repugnance. The backdrop was a long and thronging line of displaced people in flight. The message: “The EU has failed us all.” The headline: “Breaking point.” The time for imagining that the Europhobes can be engaged on the basis of facts – such as the reality that a refugee crisis that started in Syria and north Africa can hardly be blamed on the EU, or the inconvenient detail that obligations under the refugee convention do not depend on EU membership – has passed. One might have still hoped, however, that even merchants of post-truth politics might hold back from the sort of entirely post-moral politics that is involved in taking the great humanitarian crisis of our time, and then whipping up hostility to the victims as a means of chivvying voters into turning their backs on the world.
The idealism of Ms Cox was the very antithesis of such brutal cynicism. Honour her memory. Because the values and the commitment that she embodied are all that we have to keep barbarism at bay.
Is there supposed to be something wrong with that editorial?
Yes. It should not be turned into a leave vs remain issue
'Farage bad.
Don't be like Farage. Vote remain'
is basically what that headline says - see also Alex Massie in the Speccy.
Personally I hope noone changes their vote because of this.
I doubt it will change anything. It certainly shouldn't. This bloke was acting alone. He had serious personal issues. This is not a Leave v Remain thing.
the-guardian-view
We are in the midst of what risks becoming a plebiscite on immigration and immigrants. The tone is divisive and nasty. Nigel Farage on Thursday unveiled a poster of unprecedented repugnance. The backdrop was a long and thronging line of displaced people in flight. The message: “The EU has failed us all.” The headline: “Breaking point.” The time for imagining that the Europhobes can be engaged on the basis of facts – such as the reality that a refugee crisis that started in Syria and north Africa can hardly be blamed on the EU, or the inconvenient detail that obligations under the refugee convention do not depend on EU membership – has passed. One might have still hoped, however, that even merchants of post-truth politics might hold back from the sort of entirely post-moral politics that is involved in taking the great humanitarian crisis of our time, and then whipping up hostility to the victims as a means of chivvying voters into turning their backs on the world.
The idealism of Ms Cox was the very antithesis of such brutal cynicism. Honour her memory. Because the values and the commitment that she embodied are all that we have to keep barbarism at bay.
Is there supposed to be something wrong with that editorial?
Maybe that "post-truth politics" and "post-moral politics" are particularly wanky terms?
I doubt it will change anything. It certainly shouldn't. This bloke was acting alone. He had serious personal issues. This is not a Leave v Remain thing.
the-guardian-view
We are in the midst of what risks becoming a plebiscite on immigration and immigrants. The tone is divisive and nasty. Nigel Farage on Thursday unveiled a poster of unprecedented repugnance. The backdrop was a long and thronging line of displaced people in flight. The message: “The EU has failed us all.” The headline: “Breaking point.” The time for imagining that the Europhobes can be engaged on the basis of facts – such as the reality that a refugee crisis that started in Syria and north Africa can hardly be blamed on the EU, or the inconvenient detail that obligations under the refugee convention do not depend on EU membership – has passed. One might have still hoped, however, that even merchants of post-truth politics might hold back from the sort of entirely post-moral politics that is involved in taking the great humanitarian crisis of our time, and then whipping up hostility to the victims as a means of chivvying voters into turning their backs on the world.
The idealism of Ms Cox was the very antithesis of such brutal cynicism. Honour her memory. Because the values and the commitment that she embodied are all that we have to keep barbarism at bay.
Well i had hoped there would be a decent interval between that tragic event and people trying to make political capital from it. Of course i was wrong is there no depths The Guardian will not plumb to prove their sanctimonious, middle class, crassness.
I doubt it will change anything. It certainly shouldn't. This bloke was acting alone. He had serious personal issues. This is not a Leave v Remain thing.
the-guardian-view
We are in the midst of what risks becoming a plebiscite on immigration and immigrants. The tone is divisive and nasty. Nigel Farage on Thursday unveiled a poster of unprecedented repugnance. The backdrop was a long and thronging line of displaced people in flight. The message: “The EU has failed us all.” The headline: “Breaking point.” The time for imagining that the Europhobes can be engaged on the basis of facts – such as the reality that a refugee crisis that started in Syria and north Africa can hardly be blamed on the EU, or the inconvenient detail that obligations under the refugee convention do not depend on EU membership – has passed. One might have still hoped, however, that even merchants of post-truth politics might hold back from the sort of entirely post-moral politics that is involved in taking the great humanitarian crisis of our time, and then whipping up hostility to the victims as a means of chivvying voters into turning their backs on the world.
The idealism of Ms Cox was the very antithesis of such brutal cynicism. Honour her memory. Because the values and the commitment that she embodied are all that we have to keep barbarism at bay.
Is there supposed to be something wrong with that editorial?
It is a rather perceptive and thoughtful piece in my opinion.
Blimey, The Southern Poverty Law Centre have gotten involved
According to records obtained by the Southern Poverty Law Center Mair was a dedicated supporter of the National Alliance (NA), the once premier neo-Nazi organization in the United States, for decades. Mair purchased a manual from the NA in 1999 that included instructions on how to build a pistol.
I doubt it will change anything. It certainly shouldn't. This bloke was acting alone. He had serious personal issues. This is not a Leave v Remain thing.
the-guardian-view
We are in the midst of what risks becoming a plebiscite on immigration and immigrants. The tone is divisive and nasty. Nigel Farage on Thursday unveiled a poster of unprecedented repugnance. The backdrop was a long and thronging line of displaced people in flight. The message: “The EU has failed us all.” The headline: “Breaking point.” The time for imagining that the Europhobes can be engaged on the basis of facts – such as the reality that a refugee crisis that started in Syria and north Africa can hardly be blamed on the EU, or the inconvenient detail that obligations under the refugee convention do not depend on EU membership – has passed. One might have still hoped, however, that even merchants of post-truth politics might hold back from the sort of entirely post-moral politics that is involved in taking the great humanitarian crisis of our time, and then whipping up hostility to the victims as a means of chivvying voters into turning their backs on the world.
The idealism of Ms Cox was the very antithesis of such brutal cynicism. Honour her memory. Because the values and the commitment that she embodied are all that we have to keep barbarism at bay.
The hallucinatory, incoherent ramblings of a has-been paper on its acknowledged deathbed...
Blimey, The Southern Poverty Law Centre have gotten involved
According to records obtained by the Southern Poverty Law Center Mair was a dedicated supporter of the National Alliance (NA), the once premier neo-Nazi organization in the United States, for decades. Mair purchased a manual from the NA in 1999 that included instructions on how to build a pistol.
I doubt it will change anything. It certainly shouldn't. This bloke was acting alone. He had serious personal issues. This is not a Leave v Remain thing.
the-guardian-view
We are in the midst of what risks becoming a plebiscite on immigration and immigrants. The tone is divisive and nasty. Nigel Farage on Thursday unveiled a poster of unprecedented repugnance. The backdrop was a long and thronging line of displaced people in flight. The message: “The EU has failed us all.” The headline: “Breaking point.” The time for imagining that the Europhobes can be engaged on the basis of facts – such as the reality that a refugee crisis that started in Syria and north Africa can hardly be blamed on the EU, or the inconvenient detail that obligations under the refugee convention do not depend on EU membership – has passed. One might have still hoped, however, that even merchants of post-truth politics might hold back from the sort of entirely post-moral politics that is involved in taking the great humanitarian crisis of our time, and then whipping up hostility to the victims as a means of chivvying voters into turning their backs on the world.
The idealism of Ms Cox was the very antithesis of such brutal cynicism. Honour her memory. Because the values and the commitment that she embodied are all that we have to keep barbarism at bay.
Is there supposed to be something wrong with that editorial?
It is a rather perceptive and thoughtful piece in my opinion.
No, it really isn't. If a "leave" supporter, say God forbid Penny Mordaunt had been attacked by a nutter would/could/should the Guardian have run the same story ?!
I doubt it will change anything. It certainly shouldn't. This bloke was acting alone. He had serious personal issues. This is not a Leave v Remain thing.
the-guardian-view
We are in the midst of what risks becoming a plebiscite on immigration and immigrants. The tone is divisive and nasty. Nigel Farage on Thursday unveiled a poster of unprecedented repugnance. The backdrop was a long and thronging line of displaced people in flight. The message: “The EU has failed us all.” The headline: “Breaking point.” The time for imagining that the Europhobes can be engaged on the basis of facts – such as the reality that a refugee crisis that started in Syria and north Africa can hardly be blamed on the EU, or the inconvenient detail that obligations under the refugee convention do not depend on EU membership – has passed. One might have still hoped, however, that even merchants of post-truth politics might hold back from the sort of entirely post-moral politics that is involved in taking the great humanitarian crisis of our time, and then whipping up hostility to the victims as a means of chivvying voters into turning their backs on the world.
The idealism of Ms Cox was the very antithesis of such brutal cynicism. Honour her memory. Because the values and the commitment that she embodied are all that we have to keep barbarism at bay.
Well i had hoped there would be a decent interval between that tragic event and people trying to make political capital from it. Of course i was wrong is there no depths The Guardian will not plumb to prove their sanctimonious, middle class, crassness.
Other than the final paragraph, 95% of that editorial was probably planned and written before the news broke. It doesn't link Farage with the murder, just points out that Jo Cox would have disapproved. Why Ms, though?
The Farage poster is very clever and deliberate. It's also highly likely part of a plan than seems to be working. It follows on from earlier stuff like a later part of a symphony. It echos previous stuff and introduces stuff previously only hinted at. Why shouldn't a Guardian Editorial call it what it is ?
I doubt it will change anything. It certainly shouldn't. This bloke was acting alone. He had serious personal issues. This is not a Leave v Remain thing.
the-guardian-view
We are in the midst of what risks becoming a plebiscite on immigration and immigrants. The tone is divisive and nasty. Nigel Farage on Thursday unveiled a poster of unprecedented repugnance. The backdrop was a long and thronging line of displaced people in flight. The message: “The EU has failed us all.” The headline: “Breaking point.” The time for imagining that the Europhobes can be engaged on the basis of facts – such as the reality that a refugee crisis that started in Syria and north Africa can hardly be blamed on the EU, or the inconvenient detail that obligations under the refugee convention do not depend on EU membership – has passed. One might have still hoped, however, that even merchants of post-truth politics might hold back from the sort of entirely post-moral politics that is involved in taking the great humanitarian crisis of our time, and then whipping up hostility to the victims as a means of chivvying voters into turning their backs on the world.
The idealism of Ms Cox was the very antithesis of such brutal cynicism. Honour her memory. Because the values and the commitment that she embodied are all that we have to keep barbarism at bay.
Is there supposed to be something wrong with that editorial?
Blimey, The Southern Poverty Law Centre have gotten involved
According to records obtained by the Southern Poverty Law Center Mair was a dedicated supporter of the National Alliance (NA), the once premier neo-Nazi organization in the United States, for decades. Mair purchased a manual from the NA in 1999 that included instructions on how to build a pistol.
Blimey, The Southern Poverty Law Centre have gotten involved
According to records obtained by the Southern Poverty Law Center Mair was a dedicated supporter of the National Alliance (NA), the once premier neo-Nazi organization in the United States, for decades. Mair purchased a manual from the NA in 1999 that included instructions on how to build a pistol.
I doubt it will change anything. It certainly shouldn't. This bloke was acting alone. He had serious personal issues. This is not a Leave v Remain thing.
the-guardian-view
We are in the midst of what risks becoming a plebiscite on immigration and immigrants. The tone is divisive and nasty. Nigel Farage on Thursday unveiled a poster of unprecedented repugnance. The backdrop was a long and thronging line of displaced people in flight. The message: “The EU has failed us all.” The headline: “Breaking point.” The time for imagining that the Europhobes can be engaged on the basis of facts – such as the reality that a refugee crisis that started in Syria and north Africa can hardly be blamed on the EU, or the inconvenient detail that obligations under the refugee convention do not depend on EU membership – has passed. One might have still hoped, however, that even merchants of post-truth politics might hold back from the sort of entirely post-moral politics that is involved in taking the great humanitarian crisis of our time, and then whipping up hostility to the victims as a means of chivvying voters into turning their backs on the world.
The idealism of Ms Cox was the very antithesis of such brutal cynicism. Honour her memory. Because the values and the commitment that she embodied are all that we have to keep barbarism at bay.
Is there supposed to be something wrong with that editorial?
It is a rather perceptive and thoughtful piece in my opinion.
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
Better remind him which paper ran the carpet bombing of MPs over their expenses claims - reporting that did more than anything to brand all MPs in the public's mind as money-grubbing moat scum....
I doubt it will change anything. It certainly shouldn't. This bloke was acting alone. He had serious personal issues. This is not a Leave v Remain thing.
the-guardian-view
We are in the midst of what risks becoming a plebiscite on immigration and immigrants. The tone is divisive and nasty. Nigel Farage on Thursday unveiled a poster of unprecedented repugnance. The backdrop was a long and thronging line of displaced people in flight. The message: “The EU has failed us all.” The headline: “Breaking point.” The time for imagining that the Europhobes can be engaged on the basis of facts – such as the reality that a refugee crisis that started in Syria and north Africa can hardly be blamed on the EU, or the inconvenient detail that obligations under the refugee convention do not depend on EU membership – has passed. One might have still hoped, however, that even merchants of post-truth politics might hold back from the sort of entirely post-moral politics that is involved in taking the great humanitarian crisis of our time, and then whipping up hostility to the victims as a means of chivvying voters into turning their backs on the world.
The idealism of Ms Cox was the very antithesis of such brutal cynicism. Honour her memory. Because the values and the commitment that she embodied are all that we have to keep barbarism at bay.
Well i had hoped there would be a decent interval between that tragic event and people trying to make political capital from it. Of course i was wrong is there no depths The Guardian will not plumb to prove their sanctimonious, middle class, crassness.
Other than the final paragraph, 95% of that editorial was probably planned and written before the news broke. It doesn't link Farage with the murder, just points out that Jo Cox would have disapproved. Why Ms, though?
But its the final paragragh that counts. The previous 95% is the usual stuff, the final 5% is poison.
For the first time today I think that Jeremy Corbyn spoke for the whole Labour party. He was pitch perfect and immensely generous, clearly moved too. Theresa May, George Osborne and, especially, Andrew Mitchell have all gone up in my estimation. It's at times like these - and, sadly, really only at these times - that you see the genuine goodness in those who you disagree with politically.
I wish there was something profound to say. But there isn't. This has been a bleak day for our country.
It is a dark day indeed for the UK. I fear this murder and the Farage poster happening on the same day is a Synchronicity.
The Farage poster is sickening. Even on a day such as this, I can't find anything in me but contempt for him. Sadly, his is a name that many outside the UK are becoming familiar with and associating us with.
New poster idea for Remain:
For fucks sake Britain, Just fucking take a look at yourself
For the first time today I think that Jeremy Corbyn spoke for the whole Labour party. He was pitch perfect and immensely generous, clearly moved too. Theresa May, George Osborne and, especially, Andrew Mitchell have all gone up in my estimation. It's at times like these - and, sadly, really only at these times - that you see the genuine goodness in those who you disagree with politically.
I wish there was something profound to say. But there isn't. This has been a bleak day for our country.
It is a dark day indeed for the UK. I fear this murder and the Farage poster happening on the same day is a Synchronicity.
The Farage poster is sickening. Even on a day such as this, I can't find anything in me but contempt for him. Sadly, his is a name that many outside the UK are becoming familiar with and associating us with.
New poster idea for Remain:
For fucks sake Britain, Just fucking take a look at yourself
I doubt it will change anything. It certainly shouldn't. This bloke was acting alone. He had serious personal issues. This is not a Leave v Remain thing.
the-guardian-view
We are in the midst of what risks becoming a plebiscite on immigration and immigrants. The tone is divisive and nasty. Nigel Farage on Thursday unveiled a poster of unprecedented repugnance. The backdrop was a long and thronging line of displaced people in flight. The message: “The EU has failed us all.” The headline: “Breaking point.” The time for imagining that the Europhobes can be engaged on the basis of facts – such as the reality that a refugee crisis that started in Syria and north Africa can hardly be blamed on the EU, or the inconvenient detail that obligations under the refugee convention do not depend on EU membership – has passed. One might have still hoped, however, that even merchants of post-truth politics might hold back from the sort of entirely post-moral politics that is involved in taking the great humanitarian crisis of our time, and then whipping up hostility to the victims as a means of chivvying voters into turning their backs on the world.
The idealism of Ms Cox was the very antithesis of such brutal cynicism. Honour her memory. Because the values and the commitment that she embodied are all that we have to keep barbarism at bay.
Well i had hoped there would be a decent interval between that tragic event and people trying to make political capital from it. Of course i was wrong is there no depths The Guardian will not plumb to prove their sanctimonious, middle class, crassness.
Other than the final paragraph, 95% of that editorial was probably planned and written before the news broke. It doesn't link Farage with the murder, just points out that Jo Cox would have disapproved. Why Ms, though?
But its the final paragragh that counts. The previous 95% is the usual stuff, the final 5% is poison.
If you think the final paragraph is poison, then you need to get out more.
Blimey, The Southern Poverty Law Centre have gotten involved
According to records obtained by the Southern Poverty Law Center Mair was a dedicated supporter of the National Alliance (NA), the once premier neo-Nazi organization in the United States, for decades. Mair purchased a manual from the NA in 1999 that included instructions on how to build a pistol.
Receipts with an address, well that's going to be difficult to deny.
No wonder he 'kept himself to himself'.
He could be Hitler's love child. Why would anyone in their right mind change their vote?
They won't, unless the Leftoids and Beeboids totally hijack the issue, and turn it into a referendum on 'alleged far-right mentally-ill killers' instead of a referendum on the EU.
I doubt it will change anything. It certainly shouldn't. This bloke was acting alone. He had serious personal issues. This is not a Leave v Remain thing.
the-guardian-view
We are in the midst of what risks becoming a plebiscite on immigration and immigrants. The tone is divisive and nasty. Nigel Farage on Thursday unveiled a poster of unprecedented repugnance. The backdrop was a long and thronging line of displaced people in flight. The message: “The EU has failed us all.” The headline: “Breaking point.” The time for imagining that the Europhobes can be engaged on the basis of facts – such as the reality that a refugee crisis that started in Syria and north Africa can hardly be blamed on the EU, or the inconvenient detail that obligations under the refugee convention do not depend on EU membership – has passed. One might have still hoped, however, that even merchants of post-truth politics might hold back from the sort of entirely post-moral politics that is involved in taking the great humanitarian crisis of our time, and then whipping up hostility to the victims as a means of chivvying voters into turning their backs on the world.
The idealism of Ms Cox was the very antithesis of such brutal cynicism. Honour her memory. Because the values and the commitment that she embodied are all that we have to keep barbarism at bay.
Is there supposed to be something wrong with that editorial?
Post-truth...post-moral....europhobe....barbarism
Bollocks, isn't it?
Don't see a problem with any of those terms. The referendum has sadly cemented "post-truth" as a valid campaign strategy, and the poster appeals to barbaric instincts.
For the first time today I think that Jeremy Corbyn spoke for the whole Labour party. He was pitch perfect and immensely generous, clearly moved too. Theresa May, George Osborne and, especially, Andrew Mitchell have all gone up in my estimation. It's at times like these - and, sadly, really only at these times - that you see the genuine goodness in those who you disagree with politically.
I wish there was something profound to say. But there isn't. This has been a bleak day for our country.
It is a dark day indeed for the UK. I fear this murder and the Farage poster happening on the same day is a Synchronicity.
The Farage poster is sickening. Even on a day such as this, I can't find anything in me but contempt for him. Sadly, his is a name that many outside the UK are becoming familiar with and associating us with.
New poster idea for Remain:
For fucks sake Britain, Just fucking take a look at yourself
The Farage poster is bad and ill-judged.
But the irony of all the posts suggesting us Brits need to have a good fucking look at ourselves is that the Brexit polls are pretty much tied, whereas in France and Germany even higher numbers want to leave the EU! According to the polls, of course.
All countries have their extremists and horrible bastards. I reckon Britain has fewer than most.
12.05: A source has just told me that we could expect the result within the hour: probably between half twelve and quarter to one. Votes are already being put into trays, giving us a much shorter liveblog night than anticipated…
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
We should do this, we should do that. Let's get real. MPs are public servants. Some are good, some are bad, some are indifferent. Some are decent; others aren't. Some hold some quite repellent views. Others are pompous arses. And plenty of others get on with trying to do a good job. Some - as we know - have defrauded the public and gone to prison. We will think what we will of them, based on the evidence. I am not going to be dragooned by some columnist into being told what to think about a class of people (in this case, MPs) just because one MP was horribly killed by a deranged loon with apparently loopy ideas.
And if MPs want our trust back they can start by bloody well earning it. By showing us through what they do that they have earned and deserve our trust. Just like the rest of us have to do with our clients and customers etc.
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
We should do this, we should do that. Let's get real. MPs are public servants. Some are good, some are bad, some are indifferent. Some are decent; others aren't. Some hold some quite repellent views. Others are pompous arses. And plenty of others get on with trying to do a good job. Some - as we know - have defrauded the public and gone to prison. We will think what we will of them, based on the evidence. I am not going to be dragooned by some columnist into being told what to think about a class of people (in this case, MPs) just because one MP was horribly killed by a deranged loon with apparently loopy ideas.
And if MPs want our trust back they can start by bloody well earning it. By showing us through what they do that they have earned and deserve a trust. Just like the rest of us have to do with our clients and customers etc.
Trust is earned not demanded as of right.
Polls almost always show that people trust their local MP much more than the political class as a whole. Of course every MP is the local MP for around 80,000 people, and a member of the political class to the other 59million.
Merkel started a stampede that plunged Schengen into chaos.
At the moment when migrants were massed in Budapest and started making their way on foot to the Austrian border Merkel was still being seen as taking a tough line on the refugees. She didn't cause the problem, whatever you think about her judgement since then.
the Brexit polls are pretty much tied, whereas in France and Germany even higher numbers want to leave the EU! According to the polls, of course.
Citation needed.
Someone posted figures here or on Twitter a few days back. France was 60% anti-EU! And showed that the immigration thing in Germany has sent anti-EU sentiment spiralling.
It's certainly not just cretinous Brits who are apprehensive about the direction of the EU.
Anyway, I think we'll vote Remain. And the naysayers weren't so hard on their fellow Brits when the polls showed large Remain leads.
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
Better remind him which paper ran the carpet bombing of MPs over their expenses claims - reporting that did more than anything to brand all MPs in the public's mind as money-grubbing moat scum....
Fact checking wasn't their strong suit during expenses scandal, nor printing some MPs replies.
For the first time today I think that Jeremy Corbyn spoke for the whole Labour party. He was pitch perfect and immensely generous, clearly moved too. Theresa May, George Osborne and, especially, Andrew Mitchell have all gone up in my estimation. It's at times like these - and, sadly, really only at these times - that you see the genuine goodness in those who you disagree with politically.
I wish there was something profound to say. But there isn't. This has been a bleak day for our country.
It is a dark day indeed for the UK. I fear this murder and the Farage poster happening on the same day is a Synchronicity.
The Farage poster is sickening. Even on a day such as this, I can't find anything in me but contempt for him. Sadly, his is a name that many outside the UK are becoming familiar with and associating us with.
New poster idea for Remain:
For fucks sake Britain, Just fucking take a look at yourself
The Farage poster is bad and ill-judged.
But the irony of all the posts suggesting us Brits need to have a good fucking look at ourselves is that the Brexit polls are pretty much tied, whereas in France and Germany even higher numbers want to leave the EU! According to the polls, of course.
All countries have their extremists and horrible bastards. I reckon Britain has fewer than most.
Yes, and just look at the Russian far right thugs at the football as exhibit A, the afd, le Pen, Wilders, all vile, disgusting people.
This is my greatest fear, a Europe of isolated hyper nationalist states, only interested in each other to gang up on whoever they hate the most this week. It's the real European nightmare for me.
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
We should do this, we should do that. Let's get real. MPs are public servants. Some are good, some are bad, some are indifferent. Some are decent; others aren't. Some hold some quite repellent views. Others are pompous arses. And plenty of others get on with trying to do a good job. Some - as we know - have defrauded the public and gone to prison. We will think what we will of them, based on the evidence. I am not going to be dragooned by some columnist into being told what to think about a class of people (in this case, MPs) just because one MP was horribly killed by a deranged loon with apparently loopy ideas.
And if MPs want our trust back they can start by bloody well earning it. By showing us through what they do that they have earned and deserve a trust. Just like the rest of us have to do with our clients and customers etc.
Trust is earned not demanded as of right.
Yes it is, but I think you are for once totally off base by saying we think of them as we will based on the evidence. I dont believe that is true for most people for most MPs. As I said previously, I have no issue holding MPs to a higher standard than other people, higher than the standard I set for myself, due to the positions they have chosen to hold and its responsibilities, but deserving of great scepticism and scrutiny as they are, my reading of the telegraph piece in the line of the cnn interview was just that our instinctive view of all MPs as being like the worst is a little unfair, not based on evidence in fact, and while I'm not about to sympathise with an MP who chooses to whine about perceptions of MPs, I think to characterise an entreaty to recognise most are not evidentially deserving of the automatic disdain And opprobrium we help upon them as you being dragooned into being told what to think is somewhat of an overreaction, as the point, surely, was that plenty do earn and deserve trust but the, not entirely without foundation, skepticism of them as a group can mean we ignore that. I thought that before today and still do - all should be regarded skeptically, some condemned, but the potential for good recognised too, as it is that which is not accepted very often.
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
Better remind him which paper ran the carpet bombing of MPs over their expenses claims - reporting that did more than anything to brand all MPs in the public's mind as money-grubbing moat scum....
Fact checking wasn't their strong suit during expenses scandal, nor printing some MPs replies.
I still like to believe that they lost A LOT of readers over the way they dealt with that story (not just myself). The evidence being that they give them away these days in Waitrose.
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
We should do this, we should do that. Let's get real. MPs are public servants. Some are good, some are bad, some are indifferent. Some are decent; others aren't. Some hold some quite repellent views. Others are pompous arses. And plenty of others get on with trying to do a good job. Some - as we know - have defrauded the public and gone to prison. We will think what we will of them, based on the evidence. I am not going to be dragooned by some columnist into being told what to think about a class of people (in this case, MPs) just because one MP was horribly killed by a deranged loon with apparently loopy ideas.
And if MPs want our trust back they can start by bloody well earning it. By showing us through what they do that they have earned and deserve a trust. Just like the rest of us have to do with our clients and customers etc.
Trust is earned not demanded as of right.
Polls almost always show that people trust their local MP much more than the political class as a whole. Of course every MP is the local MP for around 80,000 people, and a member of the political class to the other 59million.
And how many of those voters have even encountered their local MP let alone know what he or she does? I would not be able to say that i trust my local MP because other than her party and the fact that she has had a baby recently I know nothing about her and have not seen her say or do anything in the constituency, other than as a candidate when she didn't impress me with her answers on free speech. As far as I'm concerned - and much like her predecessor - she's invisible. So I have nothing on which to make any judgment about her trustworthiness. It is quite possible that this happy situation will last for as long as she's the MP or I live here.
For the first time today I think that Jeremy Corbyn spoke for the whole Labour party. He was pitch perfect and immensely generous, clearly moved too. Theresa May, George Osborne and, especially, Andrew Mitchell have all gone up in my estimation. It's at times like these - and, sadly, really only at these times - that you see the genuine goodness in those who you disagree with politically.
I wish there was something profound to say. But there isn't. This has been a bleak day for our country.
It is a dark day indeed for the UK. I fear this murder and the Farage poster happening on the same day is a Synchronicity.
The Farage poster is sickening. Even on a day such as this, I can't find anything in me but contempt for him. Sadly, his is a name that many outside the UK are becoming familiar with and associating us with.
New poster idea for Remain:
For fucks sake Britain, Just fucking take a look at yourself
The Farage poster is bad and ill-judged.
But the irony of all the posts suggesting us Brits need to have a good fucking look at ourselves is that the Brexit polls are pretty much tied, whereas in France and Germany even higher numbers want to leave the EU! According to the polls, of course.
All countries have their extremists and horrible bastards. I reckon Britain has fewer than most.
Yes, and just look at the Russian far right thugs at the football as exhibit A, the afd, le Pen, Wilders, all vile, disgusting people.
This is my greatest fear, a Europe of isolated hyper nationalist states, only interested in each other to gang up on whoever they hate the most this week. It's the real European nightmare for me.
If, against the odds, we vote Remain convincingly it would be a real fillip for the European body politic.
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
We should do this, we should do that. Let's get real. MPs are public servants. Some are good, some are bad, some are indifferent. Some are decent; others aren't. Some hold some quite repellent views. Others are pompous arses. And plenty of others get on with trying to do a good job. Some - as we know - have defrauded the public and gone to prison. We will think what we will of them, based on the evidence. I am not going to be dragooned by some columnist into being told what to think about a class of people (in this case, MPs) just because one MP was horribly killed by a deranged loon with apparently loopy ideas.
And if MPs want our trust back they can start by bloody well earning it. By showing us through what they do that they have earned and deserve a trust. Just like the rest of us have to do with our clients and customers etc.
Trust is earned not demanded as of right.
Polls almost always show that people trust their local MP much more than the political class as a whole. Of course every MP is the local MP for around 80,000 people, and a member of the political class to the other 59million.
And how many of those voters have even encountered their local MP let alone know what he or she does?
For the first time today I think that Jeremy Corbyn spoke for the whole Labour party. He was pitch perfect and immensely generous, clearly moved too. Theresa May, George Osborne and, especially, Andrew Mitchell have all gone up in my estimation. It's at times like these - and, sadly, really only at these times - that you see the genuine goodness in those who you disagree with politically.
I wish there was something profound to say. But there isn't. This has been a bleak day for our country.
It is a dark day indeed for the UK. I fear this murder and the Farage poster happening on the same day is a Synchronicity.
The Farage poster is sickening. Even on a day such as this, I can't find anything in me but contempt for him. Sadly, his is a name that many outside the UK are becoming familiar with and associating us with.
New poster idea for Remain:
For fucks sake Britain, Just fucking take a look at yourself
The Farage poster is bad and ill-judged.
But the irony of all the posts suggesting us Brits need to have a good fucking look at ourselves is that the Brexit polls are pretty much tied, whereas in France and Germany even higher numbers want to leave the EU! According to the polls, of course.
All countries have their extremists and horrible bastards. I reckon Britain has fewer than most.
Yes, and just look at the Russian far right thugs at the football as exhibit A, the afd, le Pen, Wilders, all vile, disgusting people.
This is my greatest fear, a Europe of isolated hyper nationalist states, only interested in each other to gang up on whoever they hate the most this week. It's the real European nightmare for me.
See, this is where the argument becomes philosophical and intellectual (certainly above my pay grade).
Is the anti-democratic nature of the EU fomenting extremism through voter-disenfranchisement, or is it helping to rid countries of extremist views?
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are by always thinking that it is right and the people must obediently follow.
For the first time today I think that Jeremy Corbyn spoke for the whole Labour party. He was pitch perfect and immensely generous, clearly moved too. Theresa May, George Osborne and, especially, Andrew Mitchell have all gone up in my estimation. It's at times like these - and, sadly, really only at these times - that you see the genuine goodness in those who you disagree with politically.
I wish there was something profound to say. But there isn't. This has been a bleak day for our country.
It is a dark day indeed for the UK. I fear this murder and the Farage poster happening on the same day is a Synchronicity.
The Farage poster is sickening. Even on a day such as this, I can't find anything in me but contempt for him. Sadly, his is a name that many outside the UK are becoming familiar with and associating us with.
New poster idea for Remain:
For fucks sake Britain, Just fucking take a look at yourself
The Farage poster is bad and ill-judged.
But the irony of all the posts suggesting us Brits need to have a good fucking look at ourselves is that the Brexit polls are pretty much tied, whereas in France and Germany even higher numbers want to leave the EU! According to the polls, of course.
All countries have their extremists and horrible bastards. I reckon Britain has fewer than most.
Yes, and just look at the Russian far right thugs at the football as exhibit A, the afd, le Pen, Wilders, all vile, disgusting people.
This is my greatest fear, a Europe of isolated hyper nationalist states, only interested in each other to gang up on whoever they hate the most this week. It's the real European nightmare for me.
The Russian (or England) supporters fighting was pretty much standard football thuggery, and not very unusual across the world. Its not so much far right as fight club for inadequates.
The charge on the England fans on Saturday with fans jumping away in panic reminded me of Heysel more than anything. We forget how it used to be here just 3 decades ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36548882 Ofsted inspectors have criticised an Islamic independent school, where they found leaflets which claimed music and dancing were "acts of the devil".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36548882 Ofsted inspectors have criticised an Islamic independent school, where they found leaflets which claimed music and dancing were "acts of the devil".
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are...
But it's happening outside the EU as well and in places where the EU is irrelevant like the US. Something deeper is going on and the EU is probably neither a symptom nor a cause.
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
We should do this, we should do that. Let's get real. MPs are public servants. Some are good, some are bad, some are indifferent. Some are decent; others aren't. Some hold some quite repellent views. Others are pompous arses. And plenty of others get on with trying to do a good job. Some - as we know - have defrauded the public and gone to prison. We will think what we will of them, based on the evidence. I am not going to be dragooned by some columnist into being told what to think about a class of people (in this case, MPs) just because one MP was horribly killed by a deranged loon with apparently loopy ideas.
And if MPs want our trust back they can start by bloody well earning it. By showing us through what they do that they have earned and deserve a trust. Just like the rest of us have to do with our clients and customers etc.
Trust is earned not demanded as of right.
Polls almost always show that people trust their local MP much more than the political class as a whole. Of course every MP is the local MP for around 80,000 people, and a member of the political class to the other 59million.
And how many of those voters have even encountered their local MP let alone know what he or she does? I would not be able to say that i trust my local MP because other than her party and the fact that she has had a baby recently I know nothing about her and have not seen her say or do anything in the constituency, other than as a candidate when she didn't impress me with her answers on free speech. As far as I'm concerned - and much like her predecessor - she's invisible. So I have nothing on which to make any judgment about her trustworthiness. It is quite possible that this happy situation will last for as long as she's the MP or I live here.
I have yet to meet anyone in my constituency who has had anything to do with my current MP who did not come away feeling soiled.
I did rather like Jim Marshall though, and Peter Soulsby.
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are...
But it's happening outside the EU as well and in places where the EU is irrelevant like the US. Something deeper is going on and the EU is probably neither a symptom nor a cause.
I don't think being governed by politicians we can't hire or fire is the answer. The EU is moving more in that direction than it is towards one of more accountability.
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
We should do this, we should do that. Let's get real. MPs are public servants. Some are good, some are bad, some are indifferent. Some are decent; others aren't. Some hold some quite repellent views. Others are pompous arses. And plenty of others get on with trying to do a good job. Some - as we know - have defrauded the public and gone to prison. We will think what we will of them, based on the evidence. I am not going to be dragooned by some columnist into being told what to think about a class of people (in this case, MPs) just because one MP was horribly killed by a deranged loon with apparently loopy ideas.
And if MPs want our trust back they can start by bloody well earning it. By showing us through what they do that they have earned and deserve a trust. Just like the rest of us have to do with our clients and customers etc.
Trust is earned not demanded as of right.
Polls almost always show that people trust their local MP much more than the political class as a whole. Of course every MP is the local MP for around 80,000 people, and a member of the political class to the other 59million.
And how many of those voters have even encountered their local MP let alone know what he or she does? I would not be able to say that i trust my local MP because other than her party and the fact that she has had a baby recently I know nothing about her and have not seen her say or do anything in the constituency, other than as a candidate when she didn't impress me with her answers on free speech. As far as I'm concerned - and much like her predecessor - she's invisible. So I have nothing on which to make any judgment about her trustworthiness. It is quite possible that this happy situation will last for as long as she's the MP or I live here.
My local MP (Natascha Engel) seems to be quite active in the constituency (Particularly in my village !). She's replied to the letters I've sent her and her voting record indicates she doesn't always follow the Labour leadership blindly (She's currently Ways and Means so doesn't have to decide whether to follow Corbyn or not )
'The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are by always thinking that it is right and the people must obediently follow.'
Hard to find anything as remote,unaccountable and undemocratic as the EU
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
Yes it is, but I think you are for once totally off base by saying we think of them as we will based on the evidence. I dont believe that is true for most people for most MPs. As I said previously, I have no issue holding MPs to a higher standard than other people, higher than the standard I set for myself, due to the positions they have chosen to hold and its responsibilities, but deserving of great scepticism and scrutiny as they are, my reading of the telegraph piece in the line of the cnn interview was just that our instinctive view of all MPs as being like the worst is a little unfair, not based on evidence in fact, and while I'm not about to sympathise with an MP who chooses to whine about perceptions of MPs, I think to characterise an entreaty to recognise most are not evidentially deserving of the automatic disdain And opprobrium we help upon them as you being dragooned into being told what to think is somewhat of an overreaction, as the point, surely, was that plenty do earn and deserve trust but the, not entirely without foundation, skepticism of them as a group can mean we ignore that. I thought that before today and still do - all should be regarded skeptically, done condemned, but the potential for good recognised too, as it is that which is not accepted very often.
Good night.
Well the reason people have become very sceptical about MPs in recent years has resulted from the expenses scandal. The very same MPs who rightly castigated bankers for not whistleblowing about the criminality in their midst never took a look at themselves and asked themselves why not one MP blew the whistle on what was going on. Not one. So just as I criticise the culture in banking which permitted / encouraged people to turn a blind eye, I will criticise that same culture in MPs. Have they taken steps to address that? I've not seen any evidence of that.
12.33: At the beginning of the night I said a majority of 800-1,200 would be respectable on low turnout. Turnout was higher than I expected (but still much lower than last year) and the majority is looking to be about 6,000.
if the labour majority was 1,000 that would've been terrible.
'The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are by always thinking that it is right and the people must obediently follow.'
Hard to find anything as remote,unaccountable and undemocratic as the EU
How about changing PM and Chancellor along with 3/4 of the cabinet without an election?
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are...
But it's happening outside the EU as well and in places where the EU is irrelevant like the US. Something deeper is going on and the EU is probably neither a symptom nor a cause.
Lying politicians/parties are the cause who continue to ignore public opinion.
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
We should do this, we should do that. Let's get real. MPs are public servants. Some are good, some are bad, some are indifferent. Some are decent; others aren't. Some hold some quite repellent views. Others are pompous arses. And plenty of others get on with trying to do a good job. Some - as we know - have defrauded the public and gone to prison. We will think what we will of them, based on the evidence. I am not going to be dragooned by some columnist into being told what to think about a class of people (in this case, MPs) just because one MP was horribly killed by a deranged loon with apparently loopy
Polls almost always show that people trust their local MP much more than the political class as a whole. Of course every MP is the local MP for around 80,000 people, and a member of the political class to the other 59million.
And how many of those voters have even encountered their local MP let alone know what he or she does? I would not be able to say that i trust my local MP because other than her party and the fact that she has had a baby recently I know nothing about her and have not seen her say or do anything in the constituency, other than as a candidate when she didn't impress me with her answers on free speech. As far as I'm concerned - and much like her predecessor - she's invisible. So I have nothing on which to make any judgment about her trustworthiness. It is quite possible that this happy situation will last for as long as she's the MP or I live here.
My local MP (Natascha Engel) seems to be quite active in the constituency (Particularly in my village !). She's replied to the letters I've sent her and her voting record indicates she doesn't always follow the Labour leadership blindly.
Who is your local MP ?
Mine is Wayne David (Lab).
Voted for the Iraq War Voted 13 times against any sort of independent or judicial inquiry into the War Resigned his post to help Gordon Brown replace Blair (the architect of the Iraq War) Under Miliband, suddenly voted for the Chilcot inquiry
If there's one thing I love, it's consistency and backbone.
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are...
But it's happening outside the EU as well and in places where the EU is irrelevant like the US. Something deeper is going on and the EU is probably neither a symptom nor a cause.
Lying politicians/parties are the cause who continue to ignore public opinion.
That includes the EU.
Mostly it is austerity with people looking to find a convenient scapegoat to blame.
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
We should do this, we should do that. Let's get real. MPs are public servants. Some are good, some are bad, some are indifferent. Some are decent; others aren't. Some hold some quite repellent views. Others are pompous arses. And plenty of others get on with trying to do a good job. Some - as we know - have defrauded the public and gone to prison. We will think what we will of them, based on the evidence. I am not going to be dragooned by some columnist into being told what to think about a class of people (in this case, MPs) just because one MP was horribly killed by a deranged loon with apparently loopy ideas.
And if MPs want our trust back they can start by bloody well earning it. By showing us through what they do that they have earned and deserve a trust. Just like the rest of us have to do with our clients and customers etc.
Trust is earned not demanded as of right.
Polls almost always show that people trust their local MP much more than the political class as a whole. Of course every MP is the local MP for around 80,000 people, and a member of the political class to the other 59million.
My local MP (Natascha Engel) seems to be quite active in the constituency (Particularly in my village !). She's replied to the letters I've sent her and her voting record indicates she doesn't always follow the Labour leadership blindly.
Who is your local MP ?
Lucky old you. Tulip Siddique. I would not normally expect to be writing to my MP. But I simply have not noticed anything about her at all. Mind you, if she's had a baby that might explain it. She may be ok. She didn't strike me as a the sharpest tool in the box in the election hustings. And it's not as if I live in a deprived area where there is much for an MP to do. Incessant business by an MP is not always a good thing.
Interesting interview with Labour MP on CNN just now - basically he said in his time as MP he hes never seen so much distrust and abuse aimed at MPs and that after all has calmed down MPs of all parties need to come together and work out how they win the trust of the voters back
Also he said he hope no side tries to get capital out of this for they deserve to lose and that the last days of the campaign the abuse on both sides ceases
Front page of Telegraph a columnist says that we should start to think of our MPs as brave and decent
We should do this, we should do that. Let's get real. MPs are public servants. Some are good, some are bad, some are indifferent. Some are decent; others aren't. Some hold some quite repellent views. Others are pompous arses. And plenty of others get on with trying to do a good job. Some - as we know - have defrauded the public and gone to prison. We will think what we will of them, based on the evidence. I am not going to be dragooned by some columnist into being told what to think about a class of people (in this case, MPs) just because one MP was horribly killed by a deranged loon with apparently loopy ideas.
And if MPs want our trust back they can start by bloody well earning it. By showing us through what they do that they have earned and deserve a trust. Just like the rest of us have to do with our clients and customers etc.
Trust is earned not demanded as of right.
Polls almost always show that people trust their local MP much more than the political class as a whole. Of course every MP is the local MP for around 80,000 people, and a member of the political class to the other 59million.
And how many of those voters have even encountered their local MP let alone know what he or she does? I would not be able to say that i trust my local MP because other than her party and the fact that she has had a baby recently I know nothing about her and have not seen her say or do anything in the constituency, other than as a candidate when she didn't impress me with her answers on free speech. As far as I'm concerned - and much like her predecessor - she's invisible. So I have nothing on which to make any judgment about her trustworthiness. It is quite possible that this happy situation will last for as long as she's the MP or I live here.
I have yet to meet anyone in my constituency who has had anything to do with my current MP who did not come away feeling soiled.
I did rather like Jim Marshall though, and Peter Soulsby.
'The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are by always thinking that it is right and the people must obediently follow.'
Hard to find anything as remote,unaccountable and undemocratic as the EU
How about the UN, IMF, World Bank, OEDC, APEC, OPEC, ASEAN, etc?
The EU is a beacon of democracy and transparency compared with most of the transnational organisations which have such a big influence on our increasingly globalised world.
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are...
But it's happening outside the EU as well and in places where the EU is irrelevant like the US. Something deeper is going on and the EU is probably neither a symptom nor a cause.
Arguably the peaceful 1990s era was the anomaly, the growth of extremism and nationalism is a return to normal patterns.
Comments
This referendum has given carte blanche for everyone to say exactly what they want to. How the hell do you get back from that?
There is no case for recall, because there is nothing urgent for the House of Commons to decide in connection with the murder. They're enough of a talking shop as it is.
The US had it with the tea party and now Trump.
It is only 2 days since I was watching - in my opinion - a mortgage fraudster questioning Philip Green about business propriety as if butter wouldn't melt.
BTW is the Tooting count proceeding?
Tooting by-election turnout 42.5%, down from 69.7% in 2015.
There has always been a nasty element on the far left and the far right. But I genuinely was enthused during the EU referendum campaign because the (much maligned, oft ignored) working classes were getting involved (despite the underlying nastiness of the anti-foreigner lot). Not all the working classes are Brexit by a long chalk, but it's great that disenfranchised people have been genuinely inspired to exercise their democratic right and have their say.
I still thought Remain would win even after this morning's polls but the genuine discomfort the establishment were having trying to keep the voters in line was enjoyable and refreshing. The campaign genuinely cut across party lines and I felt that was good for democracy, whatever the result.
The whole thing will be hijacked now by clever commentators, particularly on Twitter, who will link the murder to suit their agenda (it happens on the other side when Islamists kill). Just looking through my Twitter feed tonight I'm saddened. The allegations and accusations and aspersions are flying about. I don't have any enthusiasm for that .
Jo Cox is said to have been a genuine talent who cared deeply about important issues like the plight of the Syrian children. I'd hope her death - whatever the result of the EU referendum - would bring some higher purpose and less cynical point scoring to the discourse. None of us mind a left versus right political scrap, especially if it's intelligent and well-argued, and we all get along pretty amicably nonetheless. But judging by Twitter tonight and that Daily Star headline, things are only going to get worse.
How terribly sad is that? For the first time in ages I'd felt properly enthusiastic but now I feel like switching off my Internet.
I wish there was something profound to say. But there isn't. This has been a bleak day for our country.
Of course, it may be we are sicker than it appears, and this will break us. Though I am concern at the economic impacts of Brexit, to the point I would guiltedly have some measure of relief at not having to bear responsibility for it should Remain win, I don't happen to think the country is so broken that the referendum lancing will kill us.
Just being honest.
Night.
But who knows, the next week is going to be very unpredictable, and the way people react to this tragedy is the most unpredictable thing.
I don't care whether the guy is Verwoerd's or Hitler's love-child.
It's irrelevant to the question before us, and the future of this country - except in the entirely tangential sense that lancing this boil might reduce extremism/mental health issues on all sides of the issue. A welcome bonus, if so...
Following on from the surprisingly strong turnout in the mayoral election too, could it be that there has been a genuine increase in interest in politics?
* Desmond is a secret Remainer
* Remainers spooked the Star
* you know how to run the Star better than Desmond does
At least George Osborne was off the airwaves with his budget tosh today (Even before the tragic events).
Then again, I recall they said something similar about the Bradford West in 2012...
*the headline was written because selling papers is more important to Desmnd than securing his favoured result in the referendum
We are in the midst of what risks becoming a plebiscite on immigration and immigrants. The tone is divisive and nasty. Nigel Farage on Thursday unveiled a poster of unprecedented repugnance. The backdrop was a long and thronging line of displaced people in flight. The message: “The EU has failed us all.” The headline: “Breaking point.” The time for imagining that the Europhobes can be engaged on the basis of facts – such as the reality that a refugee crisis that started in Syria and north Africa can hardly be blamed on the EU, or the inconvenient detail that obligations under the refugee convention do not depend on EU membership – has passed. One might have still hoped, however, that even merchants of post-truth politics might hold back from the sort of entirely post-moral politics that is involved in taking the great humanitarian crisis of our time, and then whipping up hostility to the victims as a means of chivvying voters into turning their backs on the world.
The idealism of Ms Cox was the very antithesis of such brutal cynicism. Honour her memory. Because the values and the commitment that she embodied are all that we have to keep barbarism at bay.
But seriously no chance of losing in tooting surely? Who woukd they lose to, the Tories, right now?
'Farage bad.
Don't be like Farage. Vote remain'
is basically what that headline says - see also Alex Massie in the Speccy.
Personally I hope noone changes their vote because of this.
According to records obtained by the Southern Poverty Law Center Mair was a dedicated supporter of the National Alliance (NA), the once premier neo-Nazi organization in the United States, for decades. Mair purchased a manual from the NA in 1999 that included instructions on how to build a pistol.
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/06/16/alleged-killer-british-mp-was-longtime-supporter-neo-nazi-national-alliance
That would explain the home made looking pistol.
Can it be that tonight Labour will suffer?
Bollocks, isn't it?
No wonder he 'kept himself to himself'.
For fucks sake Britain, Just fucking take a look at yourself
They won't, unless the Leftoids and Beeboids totally hijack the issue, and turn it into a referendum on 'alleged far-right mentally-ill killers' instead of a referendum on the EU.
Stay alert, just in case...
But the irony of all the posts suggesting us Brits need to have a good fucking look at ourselves is that the Brexit polls are pretty much tied, whereas in France and Germany even higher numbers want to leave the EU! According to the polls, of course.
All countries have their extremists and horrible bastards. I reckon Britain has fewer than most.
And if MPs want our trust back they can start by bloody well earning it. By showing us through what they do that they have earned and deserve our trust. Just like the rest of us have to do with our clients and customers etc.
Trust is earned not demanded as of right.
Merkel started a stampede that plunged Schengen into chaos.
It's certainly not just cretinous Brits who are apprehensive about the direction of the EU.
Anyway, I think we'll vote Remain. And the naysayers weren't so hard on their fellow Brits when the polls showed large Remain leads.
This is my greatest fear, a Europe of isolated hyper nationalist states, only interested in each other to gang up on whoever they hate the most this week. It's the real European nightmare for me.
Good night.
Is the anti-democratic nature of the EU fomenting extremism through voter-disenfranchisement, or is it helping to rid countries of extremist views?
The rise in extremist parties this past ten years is very worrying. The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are by always thinking that it is right and the people must obediently follow.
The charge on the England fans on Saturday with fans jumping away in panic reminded me of Heysel more than anything. We forget how it used to be here just 3 decades ago.
Ofsted inspectors have criticised an Islamic independent school, where they found leaflets which claimed music and dancing were "acts of the devil".
Though seriously that's pretty bad.
I did rather like Jim Marshall though, and Peter Soulsby.
Who is your local MP ?
'The EU can't be blameless or detached from ascertaining what the causes are by always thinking that it is right and the people must obediently follow.'
Hard to find anything as remote,unaccountable and undemocratic as the EU
if the labour majority was 1,000 that would've been terrible.
That includes the EU.
Voted for the Iraq War
Voted 13 times against any sort of independent or judicial inquiry into the War
Resigned his post to help Gordon Brown replace Blair (the architect of the Iraq War)
Under Miliband, suddenly voted for the Chilcot inquiry
If there's one thing I love, it's consistency and backbone.
The EU is a beacon of democracy and transparency compared with most of the transnational organisations which have such a big influence on our increasingly globalised world.