A few months of very scary uncertainty will change a lot of minds.
It definitely will ; it may even still do before the vote, but I'm beginning to strongly doubt that.
No, Remain has lost the referendum.
Earlier I predicted we'd hear a lot of the word betrayal in the coming months. I also think we may hear a lot of the word advisory - as in this is what the referendum was. If a majority still want to leave the EU in six months I'll be very surprised.
But then we'd hear betrayal the other way.
There's no two ways about it: the British people want a much looser relationship with the EU.
Politics will never settle down until we achieve it.
The main fallers on the stockmarket today were mostly overseas miners or oil companies. Anglo American down 5.6% Antofagasta down 5.3% Kaz Minerals down 4.8% BHP Billiton down 4.1% Glencore down 3.6% Fresnillo down 3.1% Royal Dutch Shell down 3.1%
Since their main earnings are not in sterling, then if REMAIN are right and sterling falls 10% to 20% these stocks will appreciate in value.....
So what you are saying is that the fall in overseas miners and oil companies share prices today is because the pound is not expected to fall despite the increased likelihood of Brexit.
No. The fall is due to other factors such as global demand.
We're currently remortgaging and are seriously considering pulling out because of Brexit. I fear for the future.
I think anyone undertaking any serious financial transaction pre Brexit must be plain stupid. And post Brexit, does it matter because we'll all be knackered. Still it is a price worth paying for......... I cannot even thing of one thing to say here.
We'll wait and see. If as I suspect there is absolute financial pandemonium we will have to pull out. It's going to be a disastrous few years for Britain and Europe if we leave. LEAVERS are kidding themselves that everything will be ok with no plan and utter financial turmoil on the horizon.
Keep carrying on with your ridiculous propaganda. It's been working oh so well so far! Norway and Switzerland do better than eurozone economies outside the EU. Just how do you explain that?
Yes lets follow the Swiss route to success , have the 2nd highest % of immigrants in the world . That will please the xenophobes
Another case of not understanding causality - it's like the classic "the EU created peace" when actually it's "peace created the EU".
Switzerland has many immigrants because it is a successful economy (and indeed, society).
Accordingly price adjustments have been the greatest in the prime markets of central London, where values are down 6.0% since their 2014 peak, with the highest value submarkets of Knightsbridge, Belgravia and Mayfair down by -7.3%.
Must be Brexit...... ?
From another forum:
"Even with the loan extensions confirmed, two of those still look rather overpriced
The 1 bed flat with small bedroom and shower room (no bath) valued at £1.375m in the SW corner of Mayfair"
Over a million quid and you don't even get a bath or a second bedroom !
I have to say that the one asset that is highly likely to become more... ahhh... affordable post Brexit is London property.
An unparalleled amount of new supply coming, at a time when demand is dipping (both from EU and off-plan foreign investors).
Hong Kong property fell 60% in one 18 month stretch. I think something similar is entirely possible in London.
Which is good, because my wife would really like to upgrade.
I'm glad you think it's good that this insanity has the potential to plunge London families like mine into negative equity. I have been close to tears at times worried about my family's livelihood.
Asset price bubbles rarely end well. It sadly hurts some people - and that is why as a society we ameliorate that.
What about families who don't have a massive asset to live in? There is almost always someone worse off.
Don't be so patronising. There a plenty of people who have just bought their first home and so on. It isn't any sort of an asset if you're plunged into negative equity.....
The trick, as with any asset price bubble, is not to be the one caught having paid the wrong price at the wrong time. People should be less worried about the value of their homes and more worried about the affordability of their mortgages.
Oh, and my livelihood depends on not making the wrong calls about buying assets. I have a bit of experience....
More patronising bullshit. Do you have a family? Do you have a mortgage? Do you have any idea how condescending you sound? Thankyou for putting me straight, there was I stupidly thinking it was best to buy at the wrong price and the wrong time. I'm sure the thousands of families plunged into the nightmare of negative equity (for no sensible economic reason) will take your wise words on board and they'll be a source of great comfort.
Oh and well done with the job.
Emotional investment makes it hard to be rational. It is why houses should not be considered as investments, but homes.
If the mortgage was affordable in positive equity, it will be affordable in negative equity barring external changes.
Negative equity is one of those irregular verb situations isnt it. I made a sensible property choice (when prices go up), he makes a fortune in flipping his homes, they screwed us by crashing the economy.
Negative impacts can be rooted in causes closer to home - including over stretching, failing to take out adequate mortgage protection insurance etc.
Obviously no family and probably no mortgage...... I have no attachment emotionally to my home, my mortgage is reasonably close to being paid. I would however never dream of talking down to people with families and jobs in the way you do. You'll pardon my saying so but perhaps when you get a bit more life experience you'll learn to express yourself better.
Oh and is it not possible that Brexit could bring about external changes through job losses, wage cuts and so on. I don't know if that's so...but here's the rub..nor do you.
From a rabidly left wing, anti-Tory and Eurofanatic blog. Of course I assume you were hoping that no one would go and read some of the other blog postings to get an idea of the bias of the site but would simply assume it was a neutral commentary on tax issues.
Poor show old chap.
So you can't argue against what he says, Richard. You being completely disinterested, of course :-)
Why should I argue against it when it is one rabid blogger simply spouting an opinion. I note on another blog entry he accuses the Electoral Commission of taking part in a cover up regarding the Tory party. The man does seem to be a strong candidate for a tin foil hat.
We're currently remortgaging and are seriously considering pulling out because of Brexit. I fear for the future.
I think anyone undertaking any serious financial transaction pre Brexit must be plain stupid. And post Brexit, does it matter because we'll all be knackered. Still it is a price worth paying for......... I cannot even thing of one thing to say here.
I had an offer of well over £1 million for a house yesterday. People are still spending.
An offer is one thing, a completion is another. Don't count your chickens...if the UK votes a Brexit the chances of your million pound house sale progressing to completion is about as likely as me becoming Pope.
I wasn't interested in the offer. Brexit will make very little difference to house prices over a medium term, supply and demand is a bigger driver of price.
London's property market will be an utter bloodbath.
And, while I realise this will affect a lot of people negatively, that's probably a good thing in the long term. Prices were unaffordable for too many people.
Good old Boris. Eight years in charge of London's housing policy and there's his legacy. Fills you with confidence for his premiership, doesn't it?
Are you seriously suggesting that building a lot of property in London is BAD policy? Probably one of the craziest views I've ever read on here.
Are they affordable homes? Or are they more exclusive flats for the richos? It might not be that great for the man on the Clapham Omnibus.
We keep looking at the top-line figures. 54k units? Woo! But until we get a breakdown, could mean nothing to the actual necessary housing stock increases we actually need.
Terrible logic. Even if it is all expensive flats (which it won't be) then we will see people moving up the property ladder buying these flats freeing up their old home for someone else ... and so on and so forth down the ladder. That is why there is the phrase property ladder, people don't live in the same home all their lives.
Yes, quite - I've never quite got this - building good quality houses or flats should be the aim; the market sorts it out for itself once built.
I'm happy to stand corrected. I'm out in the provinces; you clearly have a markedly different income distribution to the sticks. Housing ladders only work if the rungs are appropriately spaced; happy to hear that they are. House prices really do need to fall, otherwise it's just another way we're screwing over the young.
Reading all the contributions over the last few days, I've come to the horrible conclusion that, Brexit or no Brexit, the economy is in a terrible state. The downsides are everywhere. Someone hold me, I'm frightened.
We're currently remortgaging and are seriously considering pulling out because of Brexit. I fear for the future.
I think anyone undertaking any serious financial transaction pre Brexit must be plain stupid. And post Brexit, does it matter because we'll all be knackered. Still it is a price worth paying for......... I cannot even thing of one thing to say here.
I had an offer of well over £1 million for a house yesterday. People are still spending.
An offer is one thing, a completion is another. Don't count your chickens...if the UK votes a Brexit the chances of your million pound house sale progressing to completion is about as likely as me becoming Pope.
I wasn't interested in the offer. Brexit will make very little difference to house prices over a medium term, supply and demand is a bigger driver of price.
International investors in London property (Singaporeans, Chinese, Russians, Middle Eastern) will likely "take a pause" post a Brexit vote. Some banks and financial institutions will inevitably scale down their London offices. London will become less of a technology hub. And overall immigration levels will inevitably fall - in a market that's being built up on the basis of a continued flow of new people.
London's property market will be an utter bloodbath.
And, while I realise this will affect a lot of people negatively, that's probably a good thing in the long term. Prices were unaffordable for too many people.
Good old Boris. Eight years in charge of London's housing policy and there's his legacy. Fills you with confidence for his premiership, doesn't it?
You need to chill out.
Lots of us Leavers (not to mention Remainers) will not be campaigning for Boris as PM.
We're currently remortgaging and are seriously considering pulling out because of Brexit. I fear for the future.
I think anyone undertaking any serious financial transaction pre Brexit must be plain stupid. And post Brexit, does it matter because we'll all be knackered. Still it is a price worth paying for......... I cannot even thing of one thing to say here.
I had an offer of well over £1 million for a house yesterday. People are still spending.
An offer is one thing, a completion is another. Don't count your chickens...if the UK votes a Brexit the chances of your million pound house sale progressing to completion is about as likely as me becoming Pope.
I wasn't interested in the offer. Brexit will make very little difference to house prices over a medium term, supply and demand is a bigger driver of price.
International investors in London property (Singaporeans, Chinese, Russians, Middle Eastern) will likely "take a pause" post a Brexit vote. Some banks and financial institutions will inevitably scale down their London offices. London will become less of a technology hub. And overall immigration levels will inevitably fall - in a market that's being built up on the basis of a continued flow of new people.
London's property market will be an utter bloodbath.
And, while I realise this will affect a lot of people negatively, that's probably a good thing in the long term. Prices were unaffordable for too many people.
Good old Boris. Eight years in charge of London's housing policy and there's his legacy. Fills you with confidence for his premiership, doesn't it?
Are you seriously suggesting that building a lot of property in London is BAD policy? Probably one of the craziest views I've ever read on here.
Yes, building houses for people who do not live in them and not providing genuinely affordable housing is very bad policy. As we can clearly see.
A lot of Leavers will tell themselves the financial pain is worth it. They'll only decide it isn't after the vote. That will, of course, give Boris plenty of wriggle room in the negotiations that follow. I am increasingly of the opinion that our vote to leave the EU will make no discernible difference to our position within it and that within a few months a majority of voters will be fine with that. We may never actually leave despite voting to do so. A few months of very scary uncertainty will change a lot of minds. Though 30% or so will never be reconciled, so keeping the right at each others' throats for years to come.
A pretty likely scenario judging by the noises from Leave leaders a week or so ago.
We're currently remortgaging and are seriously considering pulling out because of Brexit. I fear for the future.
I think anyone undertaking any serious financial transaction pre Brexit must be plain stupid. And post Brexit, does it matter because we'll all be knackered. Still it is a price worth paying for......... I cannot even thing of one thing to say here.
I had an offer of well over £1 million for a house yesterday. People are still spending.
An offer is one thing, a completion is another. Don't count your chickens...if the UK votes a Brexit the chances of your million pound house sale progressing to completion is about as likely as me becoming Pope.
I wasn't interested in the offer. Brexit will make very little difference to house prices over a medium term, supply and demand is a bigger driver of price.
International investors in London property (Singaporeans, Chinese, Russians, Middle Eastern) will likely "take a pause" post a Brexit vote. Some banks and financial institutions will inevitably scale down their London offices. London will become less of a technology hub. And overall immigration levels will inevitably fall - in a market that's being built up on the basis of a continued flow of new people.
London's property market will be an utter bloodbath.
And, while I realise this will affect a lot of people negatively, that's probably a good thing in the long term. Prices were unaffordable for too many people.
Gest post. And when mortgage rates rise with the sovereign debt crisis there's going to be a lot of people whining to put it mildly.
If Hunchman's supporting 'Leave' surely that gives posters food for thought. The worst financial pundit seen on here since Mike founded the site in 2004
Actually, that award goes to Mark Senior, the 2008 Recession Denier....
We're currently remortgaging and are seriously considering pulling out because of Brexit. I fear for the future.
I think anyone undertaking any serious financial transaction pre Brexit must be plain stupid. And post Brexit, does it matter because we'll all be knackered. Still it is a price worth paying for......... I cannot even thing of one thing to say here.
I had an offer of well over £1 million for a house yesterday. People are still spending.
An offer is one thing, a completion is another. Don't count your chickens...if the UK votes a Brexit the chances of your million pound house sale progressing to completion is about as likely as me becoming Pope.
I wasn't interested in the offer. Brexit will make very little difference to house prices over a medium term, supply and demand is a bigger driver of price.
London's property market will be an utter bloodbath.
And, while I realise this will affect a lot of people negatively, that's probably a good thing in the long term. Prices were unaffordable for too many people.
Good old Boris. Eight years in charge of London's housing policy and there's his legacy. Fills you with confidence for his premiership, doesn't it?
Are you seriously suggesting that building a lot of property in London is BAD policy? Probably one of the craziest views I've ever read on here.
Are they affordable homes? Or are they more exclusive flats for the richos? It might not be that great for the man on the Clapham Omnibus.
We keep looking at the top-line figures. 54k units? Woo! But until we get a breakdown, could mean nothing to the actual necessary housing stock increases we actually need.
Terrible logic. Even if it is all expensive flats (which it won't be) then we will see people moving up the property ladder buying these flats freeing up their old home for someone else ... and so on and so forth down the ladder. That is why there is the phrase property ladder, people don't live in the same home all their lives.
Yes, quite - I've never quite got this - building good quality houses or flats should be the aim; the market sorts it out for itself once built.
I'm happy to stand corrected. I'm out in the provinces; you clearly have a markedly different income distribution to the sticks. Housing ladders only work if the rungs are appropriately spaced; happy to hear that they are. House prices really do need to fall, otherwise it's just another way we're screwing over the young.
Reading all the contributions over the last few days, I've come to the horrible conclusion that, Brexit or no Brexit, the economy is in a terrible state. The downsides are everywhere. Someone hold me, I'm frightened.
I'm in the sticks too, my house is under 100k, but at least I have a bloody bath !
Great Broad Bean Rust on my veg batch with all this damp humid weather.
Even better, all the fungicides banned because it wasnt viable to put them through the expensive tests the EU requires before they can be sold - even for stuff that was sold previously for decades or even centuries.
OUT OUT OUT
I'm in favour of strict rules for insecticides and fungicides, for the gardener and the farmer. The best cure is good air flow and varieties that are bred to have resistance.
We're currently remortgaging and are seriously considering pulling out because of Brexit. I fear for the future.
I think anyone undertaking any serious financial transaction pre Brexit must be plain stupid. And post Brexit, does it matter because we'll all be knackered. Still it is a price worth paying for......... I cannot even thing of one thing to say here.
I had an offer of well over £1 million for a house yesterday. People are still spending.
An offer is one thing, a completion is another. Don't count your chickens...if the UK votes a Brexit the chances of your million pound house sale progressing to completion is about as likely as me becoming Pope.
I wasn't interested in the offer. Brexit will make very little difference to house prices over a medium term, supply and demand is a bigger driver of price.
International investors in London property (Singaporeans, Chinese, Russians, Middle Eastern) will likely "take a pause" post a Brexit vote. Some banks and financial institutions will inevitably scale down their London offices. London will become less of a technology hub. And overall immigration levels will inevitably fall - in a market that's being built up on the basis of a continued flow of new people.
London's property market will be an utter bloodbath.
And, while I realise this will affect a lot of people negatively, that's probably a good thing in the long term. Prices were unaffordable for too many people.
Gest post. And when mortgage rates rise with the sovereign debt crisis there's going to be a lot of people whining to put it mildly.
If Hunchman's supporting 'Leave' surely that gives posters food for thought. The worst financial pundit seen on here since Mike founded the site in 2004
Actually, that award goes to Mark Senior, the 2008 Recession Denier....
From a rabidly left wing, anti-Tory and Eurofanatic blog. Of course I assume you were hoping that no one would go and read some of the other blog postings to get an idea of the bias of the site but would simply assume it was a neutral commentary on tax issues.
Poor show old chap.
So you can't argue against what he says, Richard. You being completely disinterested, of course :-)
Though Jolyon is Labour, he is a good deal less rabid than eg Professor Murphaloon.
Yes, building houses for people who do not live in them and not providing genuinely affordable housing is very bad policy. As we can clearly see.
If a foreign investor wants to put up the cash to create new physical assets in London, having them left empty for a couple of years is a small price to pay. In the long-run they will be lived in.
How soon we forget - there were huge market gyrations as far back as January when the FTSE 100 index went from 6,274 on December 30th 2015 to 5,536 on February 11th.
That was a fall of nearly 12% and no one thought the world was coming to an end. Indeed, certain people were sneering about the collapse in oil prices having undermined the SNP's arguments for independence.
Those same people weren't concerned about people's pensions or investments.
They were scoring cheap political points then, they are scoring cheap political points now.
@Rodcrosby Are you going in for all of them or avoiding some ?
Houses seem the most solid.
I don't expect to get large amounts, but if I do I expect to be able to offload.
I invest initially in everything, for diversification purposes. They will also push the PF up to not far shy of a tasty £2.5 million, which is reassuring.
The main fallers on the stockmarket today were mostly overseas miners or oil companies. Anglo American down 5.6% Antofagasta down 5.3% Kaz Minerals down 4.8% BHP Billiton down 4.1% Glencore down 3.6% Fresnillo down 3.1% Royal Dutch Shell down 3.1%
Since their main earnings are not in sterling, then if REMAIN are right and sterling falls 10% to 20% these stocks will appreciate in value.....
So what you are saying is that the fall in overseas miners and oil companies share prices today is because the pound is not expected to fall despite the increased likelihood of Brexit.
Edit - I should have pointed out that this is irony.
Lord Stuart Rose says he was misquoted on wage increases if we leave the EU.
"He told the Guardian: “I would say this, wouldn’t I, but I was misquoted. I was asked a straight economic question … which is if labour goes down in availability, what happens to the cost of labour and the answer is simple economics, the cost of labour goes up."
We're currently remortgaging and are seriously considering pulling out because of Brexit. I fear for the future.
I think anyone undertaking any serious financial transaction pre Brexit must be plain stupid. And post Brexit, does it matter because we'll all be knackered. Still it is a price worth paying for......... I cannot even thing of one thing to say here.
I had an offer of well over £1 million for a house yesterday. People are still spending.
An offer is one thing, a completion is another. Don't count your chickens...if the UK votes a Brexit the chances of your million pound house sale progressing to completion is about as likely as me becoming Pope.
I wasn't interested in the offer. Brexit will make very little difference to house prices over a medium term, supply and demand is a bigger driver of price.
International investors in London property (Singaporeans, Chinese, Russians, Middle Eastern) will likely "take a pause" post a Brexit vote. Some banks and financial institutions will inevitably scale down their London offices. London will become less of a technology hub. And overall immigration levels will inevitably fall - in a market that's being built up on the basis of a continued flow of new people.
London's property market will be an utter bloodbath.
And, while I realise this will affect a lot of people negatively, that's probably a good thing in the long term. Prices were unaffordable for too many people.
Good old Boris. Eight years in charge of London's housing policy and there's his legacy. Fills you with confidence for his premiership, doesn't it?
Getting building in London is a great legacy. I speak as an owner of property there.
Building for who? He waved through plans for developments purchased off-plan by hugely rich foreign buyers who rarely if ever visit. There are ghost blocks and streets across central London. This has helped create the bubble. And at the same time he required developers to build little if any genuinely affordable housing as quid pro quo for waving through their get richer quicker schemes. And now he pretends to care about ordinary working class people. What a complete charlatan.
I know little about the specifics of what you are talking about as I don't live in London but a serious question.
How do you build affordable housing when a garage sells for more than a normal public sector worker can hope to afford? Short of building wendy houses I don't see how any developer can build affordable housing in the current London market. Hence the need for a serious downward readjustment in house prices in London.
From a rabidly left wing, anti-Tory and Eurofanatic blog. Of course I assume you were hoping that no one would go and read some of the other blog postings to get an idea of the bias of the site but would simply assume it was a neutral commentary on tax issues.
Poor show old chap.
So you can't argue against what he says, Richard. You being completely disinterested, of course :-)
Why should I argue against it when it is one rabid blogger simply spouting an opinion. I note on another blog entry he accuses the Electoral Commission of taking part in a cover up regarding the Tory party. The man does seem to be a strong candidate for a tin foil hat.
He has exposed a pretty serious lie that Leave is telling. Good on him.
Man rated highly by just 2% of the voters speaks out
George Osborne If we remain in EU avg wage in South West will rise by £4,500 - from £26,000 to £30,500. If we leave wages will be 2.8% lower in real terms
George Osborne is destroying his reputation with such wild claims.
I honestly doubt if it is possible to fall much below 2%. Someone will still love him, maybe his family?
His mum, his wife and Dave, that's about it.
Damn, I just mistakenly pressed the offtopic button for this post by mistake. Can you undo it?
I have to say that the one asset that is highly likely to become more... ahhh... affordable post Brexit is London property.
An unparalleled amount of new supply coming, at a time when demand is dipping (both from EU and off-plan foreign investors).
Hong Kong property fell 60% in one 18 month stretch. I think something similar is entirely possible in London.
Which is good, because my wife would really like to upgrade.
I'm glad you think it's good that this insanity has the potential to plunge London families like mine into negative equity. I have been close to tears at times worried about my family's livelihood.
Asset price bubbles rarely end well. It sadly hurts some people - and that is why as a society we ameliorate that.
What about families who don't have a massive asset to live in? There is almost always someone worse off.
Don't be so patronising. There a plenty of people who have just bought their first home and so on. It isn't any sort of an asset if you're plunged into negative equity.....
If you have just bought your first house then you shouldn't even be thinking about whether or not it is in negative equity. It makes absolutely sod all difference unless you are speculating. People who are buying houses to live in rather than to make money out of shouldn't actually care how much their home is worth.
This is one of the huge problems with the UK today. People thinking of their home as a means of making money rather than a place to live.
Its nothing to do with thinking of your home as a means to make money and everything to do with not seeing something worth x amount for a year ago worth considerably less. Nobody would be happy about that.
Anyway I was just annoyed at the way in which people were dismissing somebodies genuine worries with some trite soundbytes as on the whole I agree with your point.
Lord Stuart Rose says he was misquoted on wage increases if we leave the EU.
"He told the Guardian: “I would say this, wouldn’t I, but I was misquoted. I was asked a straight economic question … which is if labour goes down in availability, what happens to the cost of labour and the answer is simple economics, the cost of labour goes up."
Disingenuous given that one of the claims he had been making was that businesses would suffer in the event of Brexit because of a shortage of Labour. He can't then complain that he is misquoted when asked about the consequences of such a shortage.
Accordingly price adjustments have been the greatest in the prime markets of central London, where values are down 6.0% since their 2014 peak, with the highest value submarkets of Knightsbridge, Belgravia and Mayfair down by -7.3%.
Must be Brexit...... ?
This is prime real estate in a tiny handful of ultra-expensive areas that was vastly overvalued and which accounts for a minute percentage of London stock.
If you don't think that Brexit will hit middle income homes and families in the capital you are utterly deluded.
Finally a thread where people are finally realising the implications of Brexit. There will be a huge shock to the economy, followed by years of uncertainty.
All these labourites that spent 20 years telling anybody who expressed concerns about immigration as a bigot or racist now trying to convince people they are massively concerned about levels of immigration.
I have to say that the one asset that is highly likely to become more... ahhh... affordable post Brexit is London property.
An unparalleled amount of new supply coming, at a time when demand is dipping (both from EU and off-plan foreign investors).
Hong Kong property fell 60% in one 18 month stretch. I think something similar is entirely possible in London.
Which is good, because my wife would really like to upgrade.
I'm glad you think it's good that this insanity has the potential to plunge London families like mine into negative equity. I have been close to tears at times worried about my family's livelihood.
Asset price bubbles rarely end well. It sadly hurts some people - and that is why as a society we ameliorate that.
What about families who don't have a massive asset to live in? There is almost always someone worse off.
Don't be so patronising. There a plenty of people who have just bought their first home and so on. It isn't any sort of an asset if you're plunged into negative equity.....
The trick, as with any asset price bubble, is not to be the one caught having paid the wrong price at the wrong time. People should be less worried about the value of their homes and more worried about the affordability of their mortgages.
Oh, and my livelihood depends on not making the wrong calls about buying assets. I have a bit of experience....
More patronising bullshit. Do you have a family? Do you have a mortgage? Do you have any idea how condescending you sound? Thankyou for putting me straight, there was I stupidly thinking it was best to buy at the wrong price and the wrong time. I'm sure the thousands of families plunged into the nightmare of negative equity (for no sensible economic reason) will take your wise words on board and they'll be a source of great comfort.
Oh and well done with the job.
Emotional investment makes it hard to be rational. It is why houses should not be considered as investments, but homes.
If the mortgage was affordable in positive equity, it will be affordable in negative equity barring external changes.
Negative equity is one of those irregular verb situations isnt it. I made a sensible property choice (when prices go up), he makes a fortune in flipping his homes, they screwed us by crashing the economy.
Negative impacts can be rooted in causes closer to home - including over stretching, failing to take out adequate mortgage protection insurance etc.
This must rank as one of the most patronising, teeth-grindingly sanctimonious posts I have ever read on PB.com
Lord Stuart Rose says he was misquoted on wage increases if we leave the EU.
"He told the Guardian: “I would say this, wouldn’t I, but I was misquoted. I was asked a straight economic question … which is if labour goes down in availability, what happens to the cost of labour and the answer is simple economics, the cost of labour goes up."
Disingenuous given that one of the claims he had been making was that businesses would suffer in the event of Brexit because of a shortage of Labour. He can't then complain that he is misquoted when asked about the consequences of such a shortage.
We already see a shortage of bricklayers and carpenters resulting in 2/3 of building firms having to turn down work
Finally a thread where people are finally realising the implications of Brexit. There will be a huge shock to the economy, followed by years of uncertainty.
I have to say that the one asset that is highly likely to become more... ahhh... affordable post Brexit is London property.
An unparalleled amount of new supply coming, at a time when demand is dipping (both from EU and off-plan foreign investors).
Hong Kong property fell 60% in one 18 month stretch. I think something similar is entirely possible in London.
Which is good, because my wife would really like to upgrade.
I'm glad you think it's good that this insanity has the potential to plunge London families like mine into negative equity. I have been close to tears at times worried about my family's livelihood.
Asset price bubbles rarely end well. It sadly hurts some people - and that is why as a society we ameliorate that.
What about families who don't have a massive asset to live in? There is almost always someone worse off.
Don't be so patronising. There a plenty of people who have just bought their first home and so on. It isn't any sort of an asset if you're plunged into negative equity.....
The trick, as with any asset price bubble, is not to be the one caught having paid the wrong price at the wrong time. People should be less worried about the value of their homes and more worried about the affordability of their mortgages.
Oh, and my livelihood depends on not making the wrong calls about buying assets. I have a bit of experience....
More patronising bullshit. Do you have a family? Do you have a mortgage? Do you have any idea how condescending you sound? Thankyou for putting me straight, there was I stupidly thinking it was best to buy at the wrong price and the wrong time. I'm sure the thousands of families plunged into the nightmare of negative equity (for no sensible economic reason) will take your wise words on board and they'll be a source of great comfort.
Oh and well done with the job.
Emotional investment makes it hard to be rational. It is why houses should not be considered as investments, but homes.
If the mortgage was affordable in positive equity, it will be affordable in negative equity barring external changes.
Negative equity is one of those irregular verb situations isnt it. I made a sensible property choice (when prices go up), he makes a fortune in flipping his homes, they screwed us by crashing the economy.
Negative impacts can be rooted in causes closer to home - including over stretching, failing to take out adequate mortgage protection insurance etc.
Obviously no family and probably no mortgage...... I have no attachment emotionally to my home, my mortgage is reasonably close to being paid. I would however never dream of talking down to people with families and jobs in the way you do. You'll pardon my saying so but perhaps when you get a bit more life experience you'll learn to express yourself better.
Oh and is it not possible that Brexit could bring about external changes through job losses, wage cuts and so on. I don't know if that's so...but here's the rub..nor do you.
You'll pardon my saying so, but based on your postings on this subject life experience, a mortgage and a family doesn't improve self awareness.
There are many people who don't have a home, let alone one that they own the freehold to.
You see, this is the problem with the EU in a nutshell:
"..balancing her concerns about Brexit with a wish to keep the integrity of EU rules intact. “Always when it comes to making concessions to the UK, there is the question, who else would want this?”
It is totally unable and unwilling to respond to national democratic wishes, which always lose to 'EU rules'.
Here comes the vow that they know can't ever come to pass...
A bit like the vow that funding for Universities and farming subsidies will be protected
Nope not like that at all. The PM's vow if it comes to pass is absolutely impossible as it runs counter to the basic principles of the 4 freedoms of the EU.
The vow on universities and farm subsidies is entirely possible given it is funded by money we already pay to Brussels.
All these labourites that spent 20 years telling anybody who expressed concerns about immigration as a bigot or racist now trying to convince people they are massively concerned about levels of immigration.
All that this whole process has achieved is to embolden the bigots and the racists...they were always there
How soon we forget - there were huge market gyrations as far back as January when the FTSE 100 index went from 6,274 on December 30th 2015 to 5,536 on February 11th.
That was a fall of nearly 12% and no one thought the world was coming to an end. Indeed, certain people were sneering about the collapse in oil prices having undermined the SNP's arguments for independence.
Those same people weren't concerned about people's pensions or investments.
They were scoring cheap political points then, they are scoring cheap political points now.
I have to say that the one asset that is highly likely to become more... ahhh... affordable post Brexit is London property.
An unparalleled amount of new supply coming, at a time when demand is dipping (both from EU and off-plan foreign investors).
Hong Kong property fell 60% in one 18 month stretch. I think something similar is entirely possible in London.
Which is good, because my wife would really like to upgrade.
I'm glad you think it's good that this insanity has the potential to plunge London families like mine into negative equity. I have been close to tears at times worried about my family's livelihood.
Asset price bubbles rarely end well. It sadly hurts some people - and that is why as a society we ameliorate that.
What about families who don't have a massive asset to live in? There is almost always someone worse off.
Don't be so patronising. There a plenty of people who have just bought their first home and so on. It isn't any sort of an asset if you're plunged into negative equity.....
The trick, as with any asset price bubble, is not to be the one caught having paid the wrong price at the wrong time. People should be less worried about the value of their homes and more worried about the affordability of their mortgages.
Oh, and my livelihood depends on not making the wrong calls about buying assets. I have a bit of experience....
More patronising bullshit. Do you have a family? Do you have a mortgage? Do you have any idea how condescending you sound? Thankyou for putting me straight, there was I stupidly thinking it was best to buy at the wrong price and the wrong time. I'm sure the thousands of families plunged into the nightmare of negative equity (for no sensible economic reason) will take your wise words on board and they'll be a source of great comfort.
Oh and well done with the job.
Emotional investment makes it hard to be rational. It is why houses should not be considered as investments, but homes.
If the mortgage was affordable in positive equity, it will be affordable in negative equity barring external changes.
Negative equity is one of those irregular verb situations isnt it. I made a sensible property choice (when prices go up), he makes a fortune in flipping his homes, they screwed us by crashing the economy.
Negative impacts can be rooted in causes closer to home - including over stretching, failing to take out adequate mortgage protection insurance etc.
This must rank as one of the most patronising, teeth-grindingly sanctimonious posts I have ever read on PB.com
If you view the truth as sanctimonious. If you buy in a bubble then there is always a chance the bubble will deflate or burst. Were you not advised of that before you bought? I was.
Here comes the vow that they know can't ever come to pass...
A bit like the vow that funding for Universities and farming subsidies will be protected
Nope not like that at all. The PM's vow if it comes to pass is absolutely impossible as it runs counter to the basic principles of the 4 freedoms of the EU.
The vow on universities and farm subsidies is entirely possible given it is funded by money we already pay to Brussels.
The Leave campaign aren't even a freakin political party let alone a government - they cannot guarantee anything
I have to say that the one asset that is highly likely to become more... ahhh... affordable post Brexit is London property.
An unparalleled amount of new supply coming, at a time when demand is dipping (both from EU and off-plan foreign investors).
Hong Kong property fell 60% in one 18 month stretch. I think something similar is entirely possible in London.
Which is good, because my wife would really like to upgrade.
I'm glad you think it's good that this insanity has the potential to plunge London families like mine into negative equity. I have been close to tears at times worried about my family's livelihood.
Asset price bubbles rarely end well. It sadly hurts some people - and that is why as a society we ameliorate that.
What about families who don't have a massive asset to live in? There is almost always someone worse off.
Don't be so patronising. There a plenty of people who have just bought their first home and so on. It isn't any sort of an asset if you're plunged into negative equity.....
The trick, as with any asset price bubble, is not to be the one caught having paid the wrong price at the wrong time. People should be less worried about the value of their homes and more worried about the affordability of their mortgages.
Oh, and my livelihood depends on not making the wrong calls about buying assets. I have a bit of experience....
More patronising bullshit. Do you have a family? Do you have a mortgage? Do you have any idea how condescending you sound? Thankyou for putting me straight, there was I stupidly thinking it was best to buy at the wrong price and the wrong time. I'm sure the thousands of families plunged into the nightmare of negative equity (for no sensible economic reason) will take your wise words on board and they'll be a source of great comfort.
Oh and well done with the job.
Emotional investment makes it hard to be rational. It is why houses should not be considered as investments, but homes.
If the mortgage was affordable in positive equity, it will be affordable in negative equity barring external changes.
Negative equity is one of those irregular verb situations isnt it. I made a sensible property choice (when prices go up), he makes a fortune in flipping his homes, they screwed us by crashing the economy.
Negative impacts can be rooted in causes closer to home - including over stretching, failing to take out adequate mortgage protection insurance etc.
Obviously no family and probably no mortgage...... I have no attachment emotionally to my home, my mortgage is reasonably close to being paid. I would however never dream of talking down to people with families and jobs in the way you do. You'll pardon my saying so but perhaps when you get a bit more life experience you'll learn to express yourself better.
Oh and is it not possible that Brexit could bring about external changes through job losses, wage cuts and so on. I don't know if that's so...but here's the rub..nor do you.
You'll pardon my saying so, but based on your postings on this subject life experience, a mortgage and a family doesn't improve self awareness.
There are many people who don't have a home, let alone one that they own the freehold to.
And as soon as they got one, you'd be gleefully willing down their asset value, telling them how their being pushed into negative equity would be good for the people in the situation they used to be in.
Man rated highly by just 2% of the voters speaks out
George Osborne If we remain in EU avg wage in South West will rise by £4,500 - from £26,000 to £30,500. If we leave wages will be 2.8% lower in real terms
George Osborne is destroying his reputation with such wild claims.
I honestly doubt if it is possible to fall much below 2%. Someone will still love him, maybe his family?
His mum, his wife and Dave, that's about it.
Damn, I just mistakenly pressed the offtopic button for this post by mistake. Can you undo it?
I have to say that the one asset that is highly likely to become more... ahhh... affordable post Brexit is London property.
An unparalleled amount of new supply coming, at a time when demand is dipping (both from EU and off-plan foreign investors).
Hong Kong property fell 60% in one 18 month stretch. I think something similar is entirely possible in London.
Which is good, because my wife would really like to upgrade.
I'm glad you think it's good that this insanity has the potential to plunge London families like mine into negative equity. I have been close to tears at times worried about my family's livelihood.
Asset price bubbles rarely end well. It sadly hurts some people - and that is why as a society we ameliorate that.
What about families who don't have a massive asset to live in? There is almost always someone worse off.
Don't be so patronising. There a plenty of people who have just bought their first home and so on. It isn't any sort of an asset if you're plunged into negative equity.....
The trick, as with any asset price bubble, is not to be the one caught having paid the wrong price at the wrong time. People should be less worried about the value of their homes and more worried about the affordability of their mortgages.
Oh, and my livelihood depends on not making the wrong calls about buying assets. I have a bit of experience....
More patronising bullshit. Do you have a family? Do you have a mortgage? Do you have any idea how condescending you sound? Thankyou for putting me straight, there was I stupidly thinking it was best to buy at the wrong price and the wrong time. I'm sure the thousands of families plunged into the nightmare of negative equity (for no sensible economic reason) will take your wise words on board and they'll be a source of great comfort.
Oh and well done with the job.
I doubt I can comfort you, you're upset, angry and worried. Seriously, I'm not trying to score Internet points here, but many people (including me) have been caught in negative equity and it's as worrying as hell, but it will be OK.
I appreciate my experience was back in the 90s. The long term trend line for property prices in the UK is up, and that's held true since the 1950s. As a nation, that's probably a bad thing, but too many governments have colluded to keep it this way for me to have any confidence (or you to have many worries) that it's ultimately going to change.
Fortunately for me I doubt it 'll make much difference in that our mortgage term is 2/3 through and we're looking to buy a bigger house anyway, so all's good.
I don't like seeing people with genuine worries being spoken down too by Billy Big Bollocks on the internet though.
You mean Cameron has the cabinet - those that support Remain - down in the basement of No 10 and is giving out cyanide capsules, to be taken when ordered?
I know little about the specifics of what you are talking about as I don't live in London but a serious question.
How do you build affordable housing when a garage sells for more than a normal public sector worker can hope to afford? Short of building wendy houses I don't see how any developer can build affordable housing in the current London market. Hence the need for a serious downward readjustment in house prices in London.
London is not one market, it is hundreds. There are parts of London where you can still buy a flat for 100k. There are parts of London where a flat (without a bath) is 1.5m.
The shit is beginning to hit the fan! We're all getting poorer by the minute. People are getting scared. There will be some swing back towards Remain especially women. The fairer sex could well save the day!!
So a Prime Minister who has expended almost all his political capital is going to appear on TV, to tell us the thing Remain have called a price worth paying isn't actually worth paying, admit that the deal he said was great is actually worthless, and promise that if you vote to Remain he'll go back with a bigger set of demands, but without the threat of a referendum, to the people who out-negotiated him last time.
I have to say that the one asset that is highly likely to become more... ahhh... affordable post Brexit is London property.
...
I'm glad you think it's good that this insanity has the potential to plunge London families like mine into negative equity. I have been close to tears at times worried about my family's livelihood.
Asset price bubbles rarely end well. It sadly hurts some people - and that is why as a society we ameliorate that.
What about families who don't have a massive asset to live in? There is almost always someone worse off.
Don't be so patronising. There a plenty of people who have just bought their first home and so on. It isn't any sort of an asset if you're plunged into negative equity.....
The trick, as with any asset price bubble, is not to be the one caught having paid the wrong price at the wrong time. People should be less worried about the value of their homes and more worried about the affordability of their mortgages.
Oh, and my livelihood depends on not making the wrong calls about buying assets. I have a bit of experience....
More patronising bullshit. Do you have a family? Do you have a mortgage? Do you have any idea how condescending you sound? Thankyou for putting me straight, there was I stupidly thinking it was best to buy at the wrong price and the wrong time. I'm sure the thousands of families plunged into the nightmare of negative equity (for no sensible economic reason) will take your wise words on board and they'll be a source of great comfort.
Oh and well done with the job.
Emotional investment makes it hard to be rational. It is why houses should not be considered as investments, but homes.
If the mortgage was affordable in positive equity, it will be affordable in negative equity barring external changes.
Negative equity is one of those irregular verb situations isnt it. I made a sensible property choice (when prices go up), he makes a fortune in flipping his homes, they screwed us by crashing the economy.
Negative impacts can be rooted in causes closer to home - including over stretching, failing to take out adequate mortgage protection insurance etc.
Obviously no family and probably no mortgage...... I have no attachment emotionally to my home, my mortgage is reasonably close to being paid. I would however never dream of talking down to people with families and jobs in the way you do. You'll pardon my saying so but perhaps when you get a bit more life experience you'll learn to express yourself better.
Oh and is it not possible that Brexit could bring about external changes through job losses, wage cuts and so on. I don't know if that's so...but here's the rub..nor do you.
You'll pardon my saying so, but based on your postings on this subject life experience, a mortgage and a family doesn't improve self awareness.
There are many people who don't have a home, let alone one that they own the freehold to.
And as soon as they got one, you'd be gleefully willing down their asset value, telling them how their being pushed into negative equity would be good for the people in the situation they used to be in.
Emotions getting in the way, again. Buying on a bubble is heartbreaking, lord knows I've done it many times - but heartbreak is irrational. Cold, hard, market asset valuations are not.
Lord Stuart Rose says he was misquoted on wage increases if we leave the EU.
"He told the Guardian: “I would say this, wouldn’t I, but I was misquoted. I was asked a straight economic question … which is if labour goes down in availability, what happens to the cost of labour and the answer is simple economics, the cost of labour goes up."
Disingenuous given that one of the claims he had been making was that businesses would suffer in the event of Brexit because of a shortage of Labour. He can't then complain that he is misquoted when asked about the consequences of such a shortage.
Lord Rose has been a terrible chairman. He looks positively ill in that photograph.
I'm moving to the north as I can't cope with living costs down south anymore, I've had my house valued and it will be on the market some time in.July. I have to move as I can't afford to leave it any longer, if I can't sell it for the asking price my retirement is going to suffer, if I can't sell it things would be even worse. I'm finding it difficult to sleep at the moment. I'm afraid I look at those voting on the off chance that house prices will come down as a result with disgust. I've struggled for years to pay for something that their greed could destroy.
I know little about the specifics of what you are talking about as I don't live in London but a serious question.
How do you build affordable housing when a garage sells for more than a normal public sector worker can hope to afford? Short of building wendy houses I don't see how any developer can build affordable housing in the current London market. Hence the need for a serious downward readjustment in house prices in London.
London is not one market, it is hundreds. There are parts of London where you can still buy a flat for 100k. There are parts of London where a flat (without a bath) is 1.5m.
You mean those flats that are essentially one room and a piss pot? This is the thing that is killing the white working class, more than any other sector.
I'm moving to the north as I can't cope with living costs down south anymore, I've had my house valued and it will be on the market some time in.July. I have to move as I can't afford to leave it any longer, if I can't sell it for the asking price my retirement is going to suffer, if I can't sell it things would be even worse. I'm finding it difficult to sleep at the moment. I'm afraid I look at those voting on the off chance that house prices will come down as a result with disgust. I've struggled for years to pay for something that their greed could destroy.
Lord Stuart Rose says he was misquoted on wage increases if we leave the EU.
"He told the Guardian: “I would say this, wouldn’t I, but I was misquoted. I was asked a straight economic question … which is if labour goes down in availability, what happens to the cost of labour and the answer is simple economics, the cost of labour goes up."
How soon we forget - there were huge market gyrations as far back as January when the FTSE 100 index went from 6,274 on December 30th 2015 to 5,536 on February 11th.
That was a fall of nearly 12% and no one thought the world was coming to an end. Indeed, certain people were sneering about the collapse in oil prices having undermined the SNP's arguments for independence.
Those same people weren't concerned about people's pensions or investments.
They were scoring cheap political points then, they are scoring cheap political points now.
And if you take the timescale a little further back:
6,818 on 11/02/15 7,046 on 08/05/15 6,834 on 23/06/15
Finally a thread where people are finally realising the implications of Brexit. There will be a huge shock to the economy, followed by years of uncertainty.
I have to say, my friend, having spent the better part of the last 10 days in Greece I've seen what a "huge shock to the economy" really looks like.
I've done this politics lark for a long time and one of the lessons I learnt early on was what people say during an election campaign bears no resemblance to how what they say once the votes are counted.
I understand REMAIN trying to paint the most dystopic vision possible for a post-LEAVE Britain - I get that, I really do. There are people and companies who do very well out of the current situation but our Government, society, economy and politics doesn't just function for them but for all of us.
The rhetoric of the campaign will vanish like the morning mist once the votes are counted because it will be in everyone's interests to make the result work whatever it is. There may be some political turmoil but that's politics. As far as the wider economy is concerned, June 24th will be "just another day".
I've been told too often about Doomsday that it may be I won't either recognise the doom when it arrives or the day when it turns up but it won't happen if we vote to leave the EU. Life will go on and, the wonder of human adaptability being what it is, we will make it work.
IF, as I hope, we vote to LEAVE, a process will begin as will a second and arguably far more significant and interesting debate about our political, economic and societal future to which we will all have a say. Arguably it's the debate we've never really had since 1945 but it's the one we need to have about how we see ourselves and our place in the world.
I'm an internationalist and I realise not all LEAVE voters think as I do but I've come to the conclusion that however much we may hope for that "reform" of the EU, it won't happen and we need to construct a new positive relationship with the world. That might be as part of a revamped EFTA or it may not but I deeply resent being told if I support LEAVE, I am turning my back on the world.
How soon we forget - there were huge market gyrations as far back as January when the FTSE 100 index went from 6,274 on December 30th 2015 to 5,536 on February 11th.
That was a fall of nearly 12% and no one thought the world was coming to an end. Indeed, certain people were sneering about the collapse in oil prices having undermined the SNP's arguments for independence.
Those same people weren't concerned about people's pensions or investments.
They were scoring cheap political points then, they are scoring cheap political points now.
And if you take the timescale a little further back:
6,818 on 11/02/15 7,046 on 08/05/15 6,834 on 23/06/15
Did anyone lose their pension or house because of it ?
What part of 'cheap political points' didn't you understand . Personally, been investing (for retirement) since 1989. It's a rough old world sometimes. Got to have longish horizons otherwise nervous breakdowns ensue.
I know little about the specifics of what you are talking about as I don't live in London but a serious question.
How do you build affordable housing when a garage sells for more than a normal public sector worker can hope to afford? Short of building wendy houses I don't see how any developer can build affordable housing in the current London market. Hence the need for a serious downward readjustment in house prices in London.
London is not one market, it is hundreds. There are parts of London where you can still buy a flat for 100k. There are parts of London where a flat (without a bath) is 1.5m.
You can buy a bedsit for £100,000 (and for even less, if you're willing to look.) Seriously, though, they're not family friendly.
I live in a bedsit. I've lived in a bedsit for a long time. It's relatively cheap and conveniently located. But while it's technically a flat - I suppose - it's not really one.
I'm moving to the north as I can't cope with living costs down south anymore, I've had my house valued and it will be on the market some time in.July. I have to move as I can't afford to leave it any longer, if I can't sell it for the asking price my retirement is going to suffer, if I can't sell it things would be even worse. I'm finding it difficult to sleep at the moment. I'm afraid I look at those voting on the off chance that house prices will come down as a result with disgust. I've struggled for years to pay for something that their greed could destroy.
What is their greed?
Wanting to profit from creating conditions that hurt others just for their own profit. There are laudable reasons for voting but that is vile.
Here comes the vow that they know can't ever come to pass...
A bit like the vow that funding for Universities and farming subsidies will be protected
Nope not like that at all. The PM's vow if it comes to pass is absolutely impossible as it runs counter to the basic principles of the 4 freedoms of the EU.
The vow on universities and farm subsidies is entirely possible given it is funded by money we already pay to Brussels.
The Leave campaign aren't even a freakin political party let alone a government - they cannot guarantee anything
Tell that to the Remainiacs on here. They are the ones who keep claiming that we should vote Remain because of how nasty Farage and Boris and Give will be when they are in power.
A little consistency would be nice.
Besides the point still stands. If we leave then the money we have currently been giving to Brussels for them to give back to universities and farmers will still be there to give no matter who is in power. At least then you will have a choice of who controls the money.
Finally a thread where people are finally realising the implications of Brexit. There will be a huge shock to the economy, followed by years of uncertainty.
I have to say, my friend, having spent the better part of the last 10 days in Greece I've seen what a "huge shock to the economy" really looks like.
I've done this politics lark for a long time and one of the lessons I learnt early on was what people say during an election campaign bears no resemblance to how what they say once the votes are counted.
I understand REMAIN trying to paint the most dystopic vision possible for a post-LEAVE Britain - I get that, I really do. There are people and companies who do very well out of the current situation but our Government, society, economy and politics doesn't just function for them but for all of us.
The rhetoric of the campaign will vanish like the morning mist once the votes are counted because it will be in everyone's interests to make the result work whatever it is. There may be some political turmoil but that's politics. As far as the wider economy is concerned, June 24th will be "just another day".
I've been told too often about Doomsday that it may be I won't either recognise the doom when it arrives or the day when it turns up but it won't happen if we vote to leave the EU. Life will go on and, the wonder of human adaptability being what it is, we will make it work.
IF, as I hope, we vote to LEAVE, a process will begin as will a second and arguably far more significant and interesting debate about our political, economic and societal future to which we will all have a say. Arguably it's the debate we've never really had since 1945 but it's the one we need to have about how we see ourselves and our place in the world.
I'm an internationalist and I realise not all LEAVE voters think as I do but I've come to the conclusion that however much we may hope for that "reform" of the EU, it won't happen and we need to construct a new positive relationship with the world. That might be as part of a revamped EFTA or it may not but I deeply resent being told if I support LEAVE, I am turning my back on the world.
I know little about the specifics of what you are talking about as I don't live in London but a serious question.
How do you build affordable housing when a garage sells for more than a normal public sector worker can hope to afford? Short of building wendy houses I don't see how any developer can build affordable housing in the current London market. Hence the need for a serious downward readjustment in house prices in London.
London is not one market, it is hundreds. There are parts of London where you can still buy a flat for 100k. There are parts of London where a flat (without a bath) is 1.5m.
You mean those flats that are essentially one room and a piss pot? This is the thing that is killing the white working class, more than any other sector.
I don't mean to be rude, but I've shared a 450 sq foot flat with two other people. When I see images of "shocking" flats, with three people stuffed into two rooms, I think "I've been there and done that". Compared to places like Hong Kong, where the Chinese working class is still in happy abundance, 450 sq feet between three (adult) people is an abundance.
Finally a thread where people are finally realising the implications of Brexit. There will be a huge shock to the economy, followed by years of uncertainty.
I have to say, my friend, having spent the better part of the last 10 days in Greece I've seen what a "huge shock to the economy" really looks like.
I've done this politics lark for a long time and one of the lessons I learnt early on was what people say during an election campaign bears no resemblance to how what they say once the votes are counted.
I understand REMAIN trying to paint the most dystopic vision possible for a post-LEAVE Britain - I get that, I really do. There are people and companies who do very well out of the current situation but our Government, society, economy and politics doesn't just function for them but for all of us.
The rhetoric of the campaign will vanish like the morning mist once the votes are counted because it will be in everyone's interests to make the result work whatever it is. There may be some political turmoil but that's politics. As far as the wider economy is concerned, June 24th will be "just another day".
I've been told too often about Doomsday that it may be I won't either recognise the doom when it arrives or the day when it turns up but it won't happen if we vote to leave the EU. Life will go on and, the wonder of human adaptability being what it is, we will make it work.
IF, as I hope, we vote to LEAVE, a process will begin as will a second and arguably far more significant and interesting debate about our political, economic and societal future to which we will all have a say. Arguably it's the debate we've never really had since 1945 but it's the one we need to have about how we see ourselves and our place in the world.
I'm an internationalist and I realise not all LEAVE voters think as I do but I've come to the conclusion that however much we may hope for that "reform" of the EU, it won't happen and we need to construct a new positive relationship with the world. That might be as part of a revamped EFTA or it may not but I deeply resent being told if I support LEAVE, I am turning my back on the world.
That's not how I see it.
Trouble is, Stodge, that admirable as your internationalist sentiments are, you haven’t been listening to all the comments from Leave. There’s a segment which appears to seek a sort of Fortress Britain with a somewhat (at least) restrictive attitude to “outsiders”.
The person responsible for this lamentable & depressing thread is TSE, who purposefully produced a Enormous Piece of Bullshit with his "a bad narrative is developing for leave" based on the flimsiest evidence.
If you look in the run up to the election of the Tories in May 2015, you will easily find days when the FTSE fell by a per cent or so.
We didn't get a load of bull from TSE about "a bad narrative developing for the Tories" then.
Finally a thread where people are finally realising the implications of Brexit. There will be a huge shock to the economy, followed by years of uncertainty.
I have to say, my friend, having spent the better part of the last 10 days in Greece I've seen what a "huge shock to the economy" really looks like.
I've done this politics lark for a long time and one of the lessons I learnt early on was what people say during an election campaign bears no resemblance to how what they say once the votes are counted.
I understand REMAIN trying to paint the most dystopic vision possible for a post-LEAVE Britain - I get that, I really do. There are people and companies who do very well out of the current situation but our Government, society, economy and politics doesn't just function for them but for all of us.
The rhetoric of the campaign will vanish like the morning mist once the votes are counted because it will be in everyone's interests to make the result work whatever it is. There may be some political turmoil but that's politics. As far as the wider economy is concerned, June 24th will be "just another day".
I've been told too often about Doomsday that it may be I won't either recognise the doom when it arrives or the day when it turns up but it won't happen if we vote to leave the EU. Life will go on and, the wonder of human adaptability being what it is, we will make it work.
IF, as I hope, we vote to LEAVE, a process will begin as will a second and arguably far more significant and interesting debate about our political, economic and societal future to which we will all have a say. Arguably it's the debate we've never really had since 1945 but it's the one we need to have about how we see ourselves and our place in the world.
I'm an internationalist and I realise not all LEAVE voters think as I do but I've come to the conclusion that however much we may hope for that "reform" of the EU, it won't happen and we need to construct a new positive relationship with the world. That might be as part of a revamped EFTA or it may not but I deeply resent being told if I support LEAVE, I am turning my back on the world.
I'm moving to the north as I can't cope with living costs down south anymore, I've had my house valued and it will be on the market some time in.July. I have to move as I can't afford to leave it any longer, if I can't sell it for the asking price my retirement is going to suffer, if I can't sell it things would be even worse. I'm finding it difficult to sleep at the moment. I'm afraid I look at those voting on the off chance that house prices will come down as a result with disgust. I've struggled for years to pay for something that their greed could destroy.
If the value of your London property drops presumably the value of whatever property you want to buy up north will also drop.
Finally a thread where people are finally realising the implications of Brexit. There will be a huge shock to the economy, followed by years of uncertainty.
I have to say, my friend, having spent the better part of the last 10 days in Greece I've seen what a "huge shock to the economy" really looks like.
I've done this politics lark for a long time and one of the lessons I learnt early on was what people say during an election campaign bears no resemblance to how what they say once the votes are counted.
I understand REMAIN trying to paint the most dystopic vision possible for a post-LEAVE Britain - I get that, I really do. There are people and companies who do very well out of the current situation but our Government, society, economy and politics doesn't just function for them but for all of us.
The rhetoric of the campaign will vanish like the morning mist once the votes are counted because it will be in everyone's interests to make the result work whatever it is. There may be some political turmoil but that's politics. As far as the wider economy is concerned, June 24th will be "just another day".
I've been told too often about Doomsday that it may be I won't either recognise the doom when it arrives or the day when it turns up but it won't happen if we vote to leave the EU. Life will go on and, the wonder of human adaptability being what it is, we will make it work.
IF, as I hope, we vote to LEAVE, a process will begin as will a second and arguably far more significant and interesting debate about our political, economic and societal future to which we will all have a say. Arguably it's the debate we've never really had since 1945 but it's the one we need to have about how we see ourselves and our place in the world.
I'm an internationalist and I realise not all LEAVE voters think as I do but I've come to the conclusion that however much we may hope for that "reform" of the EU, it won't happen and we need to construct a new positive relationship with the world. That might be as part of a revamped EFTA or it may not but I deeply resent being told if I support LEAVE, I am turning my back on the world.
That's not how I see it.
Stodge, your cri de coeur is one that I whole heartedly agree with. If Britain continues on it's present path it will see itself as a third rate nation in another 30 years: sans industry, sans services, sans a defence force, and sans an educated and healthy population.
Stuart Rose puts his finger on the pulse of popular opinion once again:
"Rose also urged voters to be as “selfish” as possible and vote to protect their finances as well as those of their children and grandchildren.
He said: “Nobody has ever left the EU. It’s a big social and economic experiment. At the end of the day, it’s like joining a golf club or a dining club, or any sort of club, a squash club. We may not like all the members, we may not like all the rules.
“We may not like the cost of teeing off or the cost of playing on a squash court. But we joined the club. And we’ve got more chance if we’re in the club of being elected to a committee or influencing the rules if we’re in the club.”"
Drawing analogies with golf and squash clubs are clearly the best way of resonating with Labour Leave voters across the land.
Finally a thread where people are finally realising the implications of Brexit. There will be a huge shock to the economy, followed by years of uncertainty.
I have to say, my friend, having spent the better part of the last 10 days in Greece I've seen what a "huge shock to the economy" really looks like.
I've done this politics lark for a long time and one of the lessons I learnt early on was what people say during an election campaign bears no resemblance to how what they say once the votes are counted.
I understand REMAIN trying to paint the most dystopic vision possible for a post-LEAVE Britain - I get that, I really do. There are people and companies who do very well out of the current situation but our Government, society, economy and politics doesn't just function for them but for all of us.
The rhetoric of the campaign will vanish like the morning mist once the votes are counted because it will be in everyone's interests to make the result work whatever it is. There may be some political turmoil but that's politics. As far as the wider economy is concerned, June 24th will be "just another day".
I've been told too often about Doomsday that it may be I won't either recognise the doom when it arrives or the day when it turns up but it won't happen if we vote to leave the EU. Life will go on and, the wonder of human adaptability being what it is, we will make it work.
IF, as I hope, we vote to LEAVE, a process will begin as will a second and arguably far more significant and interesting debate about our political, economic and societal future to which we will all have a say. Arguably it's the debate we've never really had since 1945 but it's the one we need to have about how we see ourselves and our place in the world.
I'm an internationalist and I realise not all LEAVE voters think as I do but I've come to the conclusion that however much we may hope for that "reform" of the EU, it won't happen and we need to construct a new positive relationship with the world. That might be as part of a revamped EFTA or it may not but I deeply resent being told if I support LEAVE, I am turning my back on the world.
That's not how I see it.
The LibDems would be in a much better situation if you were their leader.
I'm moving to the north as I can't cope with living costs down south anymore, I've had my house valued and it will be on the market some time in.July. I have to move as I can't afford to leave it any longer, if I can't sell it for the asking price my retirement is going to suffer, if I can't sell it things would be even worse. I'm finding it difficult to sleep at the moment. I'm afraid I look at those voting on the off chance that house prices will come down as a result with disgust. I've struggled for years to pay for something that their greed could destroy.
If the value of your London property drops presumably the value of whatever property you want to buy up north will also drop.
Not really, prices up here haven't really gone anywhere in the last few years.
Stuart Rose puts his finger on the pulse of popular opinion once again:
Rose also urged voters to be as “selfish” as possible and vote to protect their finances as well as those of their children and grandchildren.
He said: “Nobody has ever left the EU. It’s a big social and economic experiment. At the end of the day, it’s like joining a golf club or a dining club, or any sort of club, a squash club. We may not like all the members, we may not like all the rules.
“We may not like the cost of teeing off or the cost of playing on a squash court. But we joined the club. And we’ve got more chance if we’re in the club of being elected to a committee or influencing the rules if we’re in the club.”
Drawing analogies with golf and squash clubs are clearly the best way of resonating with Labour Leave voters across the land.
But not if the club has at its centre a clique that is determined to preserve the status quo. In my experience if that happens you leave and join another club.
Comments
The Kremlin hackers had access to the DNC network for over a year
"Our team moved as quickly as possible to kick out the intruders and secure our network."
There's no two ways about it: the British people want a much looser relationship with the EU.
Politics will never settle down until we achieve it.
"Even with the loan extensions confirmed, two of those still look rather overpriced
The 1 bed flat with small bedroom and shower room (no bath) valued at £1.375m in the SW corner of Mayfair"
Over a million quid and you don't even get a bath or a second bedroom !
How mad is that !
You'll pardon my saying so but perhaps when you get a bit more life experience you'll learn to express yourself better.
Oh and is it not possible that Brexit could bring about external changes through job losses, wage cuts and so on. I don't know if that's so...but here's the rub..nor do you.
Reading all the contributions over the last few days, I've come to the horrible conclusion that, Brexit or no Brexit, the economy is in a terrible state. The downsides are everywhere. Someone hold me, I'm frightened.
Lots of us Leavers (not to mention Remainers) will not be campaigning for Boris as PM.
https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/06/14/0516235/assange-wikileaks-will-publish-enough-evidence-to-indict-hillary-clinton
How soon we forget - there were huge market gyrations as far back as January when the FTSE 100 index went from 6,274 on December 30th 2015 to 5,536 on February 11th.
That was a fall of nearly 12% and no one thought the world was coming to an end. Indeed, certain people were sneering about the collapse in oil prices having undermined the SNP's arguments for independence.
Those same people weren't concerned about people's pensions or investments.
They were scoring cheap political points then, they are scoring cheap political points now.
I invest initially in everything, for diversification purposes. They will also push the PF up to not far shy of a tasty £2.5 million, which is reassuring.
"He told the Guardian: “I would say this, wouldn’t I, but I was misquoted. I was asked a straight economic question … which is if labour goes down in availability, what happens to the cost of labour and the answer is simple economics, the cost of labour goes up."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/14/lord-stuart-rose-misquoted-post-eu-brexit-wage-increases
How do you build affordable housing when a garage sells for more than a normal public sector worker can hope to afford? Short of building wendy houses I don't see how any developer can build affordable housing in the current London market. Hence the need for a serious downward readjustment in house prices in London.
There are risks in voting Remain or voting Leave. We need to all understand that. FWIW, I think we'll get a recession soon if we vote Remain anyway.
But in my view, particularly in an uncertain world, we are better off having full control ourselves.
Anyway I was just annoyed at the way in which people were dismissing somebodies genuine worries with some trite soundbytes as on the whole I agree with your point.
This is prime real estate in a tiny handful of ultra-expensive areas that was vastly overvalued and which accounts for a minute percentage of London stock.
If you don't think that Brexit will hit middle income homes and families in the capital you are utterly deluded.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/14/ignoring-immigration-five-reforms-remain-eu-vote
Is this what is called the bargaining phase by both Cameron and Cooper?
There are many people who don't have a home, let alone one that they own the freehold to.
"..balancing her concerns about Brexit with a wish to keep the integrity of EU rules intact. “Always when it comes to making concessions to the UK, there is the question, who else would want this?”
It is totally unable and unwilling to respond to national democratic wishes, which always lose to 'EU rules'.
The vow on universities and farm subsidies is entirely possible given it is funded by money we already pay to Brussels.
I am not planning to buy back in yet, but could be some bargains about shortly.
I don't like seeing people with genuine worries being spoken down too by Billy Big Bollocks on the internet though.
And the Leave campaign is the amateurish one?
Lord Rose has been a terrible chairman. He looks positively ill in that photograph.
(Good evening, everyone)
The emails story must be one of the most boring, technocratic political stories in world history.
6,818 on 11/02/15
7,046 on 08/05/15
6,834 on 23/06/15
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^FTSE#symbol=^FTSE;range=1y
So a 19% fall between 11/02/15 and 11/02/16.
Did anyone lose their pension or house because of it ?
I've done this politics lark for a long time and one of the lessons I learnt early on was what people say during an election campaign bears no resemblance to how what they say once the votes are counted.
I understand REMAIN trying to paint the most dystopic vision possible for a post-LEAVE Britain - I get that, I really do. There are people and companies who do very well out of the current situation but our Government, society, economy and politics doesn't just function for them but for all of us.
The rhetoric of the campaign will vanish like the morning mist once the votes are counted because it will be in everyone's interests to make the result work whatever it is. There may be some political turmoil but that's politics. As far as the wider economy is concerned, June 24th will be "just another day".
I've been told too often about Doomsday that it may be I won't either recognise the doom when it arrives or the day when it turns up but it won't happen if we vote to leave the EU. Life will go on and, the wonder of human adaptability being what it is, we will make it work.
IF, as I hope, we vote to LEAVE, a process will begin as will a second and arguably far more significant and interesting debate about our political, economic and societal future to which we will all have a say. Arguably it's the debate we've never really had since 1945 but it's the one we need to have about how we see ourselves and our place in the world.
I'm an internationalist and I realise not all LEAVE voters think as I do but I've come to the conclusion that however much we may hope for that "reform" of the EU, it won't happen and we need to construct a new positive relationship with the world. That might be as part of a revamped EFTA or it may not but I deeply resent being told if I support LEAVE, I am turning my back on the world.
That's not how I see it.
Your home me be at risk........
Small print.
Read it.
I live in a bedsit. I've lived in a bedsit for a long time. It's relatively cheap and conveniently located. But while it's technically a flat - I suppose - it's not really one.
A little consistency would be nice.
Besides the point still stands. If we leave then the money we have currently been giving to Brussels for them to give back to universities and farmers will still be there to give no matter who is in power. At least then you will have a choice of who controls the money.
That insanely unreal level of disconnect is precisely the problem.
The person responsible for this lamentable & depressing thread is TSE, who purposefully produced a Enormous Piece of Bullshit with his "a bad narrative is developing for leave" based on the flimsiest evidence.
If you look in the run up to the election of the Tories in May 2015, you will easily find days when the FTSE fell by a per cent or so.
We didn't get a load of bull from TSE about "a bad narrative developing for the Tories" then.
"Rose also urged voters to be as “selfish” as possible and vote to protect their finances as well as those of their children and grandchildren.
He said: “Nobody has ever left the EU. It’s a big social and economic experiment. At the end of the day, it’s like joining a golf club or a dining club, or any sort of club, a squash club. We may not like all the members, we may not like all the rules.
“We may not like the cost of teeing off or the cost of playing on a squash court. But we joined the club. And we’ve got more chance if we’re in the club of being elected to a committee or influencing the rules if we’re in the club.”"
Drawing analogies with golf and squash clubs are clearly the best way of resonating with Labour Leave voters across the land.
But not if the club has at its centre a clique that is determined to preserve the status quo.
In my experience if that happens you leave and join another club.
Oh dear.