I do wonder what will happen if, after a Leave vote, immigration stays at the current level for a while.
Well, quite.
High immigration is linked to a booming economy. As Osborne has noted, you can reduce immigration significantly by crashing the economy. Not sure that is BoZo's ideal scenario
What booming economy ?
Immigration up, UK GDP forecast reduced.
1.6% growth isn't booming, it's below the UK trend.
Our GDP per capita is basically the same now as it was in 2006.
And that's the important one to most people. Growth of 1% when the population gets 1% bigger isn't growth to anyone except statisticians.
Not to mention the trillion pounds plus the incompetents of Downing Street have borrowed in that decade.
And yet we're told that all immigrants are net tax contributors.
Quite. That immigrants as a group might pay more tax then they claim in benefits, doesn't mean that the situation couldn't be substantially improved by having no immigrants claiming benefits or by restricting immigration to only higher-rate taxpayers.
The whole immigrants pay more tax than they claim in benefits meme deliberately omits the cost of the extra public services they use.
Why are people assuming vast leads for Remain in Northern Ireland ?
The only polling I've seen on the topic is from the Belfast Telegraph which shows a 55 / 35 lead for remain, this is from 2 or 3 weeks ago. Let's assume none of the Leave surge has happened there.
If we have turnout the same as the last general election, this results in a net remain lead of about 65k. It's probably lower now.
I do wonder what will happen if, after a Leave vote, immigration stays at the current level for a while.
Well, quite.
High immigration is linked to a booming economy. As Osborne has noted, you can reduce immigration significantly by crashing the economy. Not sure that is BoZo's ideal scenario
What booming economy ?
Immigration up, UK GDP forecast reduced.
1.6% growth isn't booming, it's below the UK trend.
Our GDP per capita is basically the same now as it was in 2006.
And that's the important one to most people. Growth of 1% when the population gets 1% bigger isn't growth to anyone except statisticians.
Not to mention the trillion pounds plus the incompetents of Downing Street have borrowed in that decade.
And yet we're told that all immigrants are net tax contributors.
Quite. That immigrants as a group might pay more tax then they claim in benefits, doesn't mean that the situation couldn't be substantially improved by having no immigrants claiming benefits or by restricting immigration to only higher-rate taxpayers.
The whole immigrants pay more tax than they claim in benefits meme deliberately omits the cost of the extra public services they use.
The problem with all surveys is that they only look at bits. Yes an immigrant taking a minimum wage job in the uk may be low cost but it doesn't include the cost in benefits of the local person who would have got that minimum wage job if the immigrant had never arrived.
Well, you'd hope nobody would premise their study on the Lump of Labour fallacy...
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
I'm not sure that's right. I remember crossing the France Spain border twice in about 1989, once on a motorway and once on a tiny, tiny road high up in the pyrenees, and there being border controls. Spain was definitely in the EEC by this stage.
Four years later, I repeated the journey, and they had gone.
I experienced border checks in France and Italy in the late 80s/early 90s too. Switzerland always had them unless I was crossing at 3am in some tiddly place.
What you are seeing on Betfair at oresent is a lot if unwinding of positions. Remember betfair is a zero sum game. For every winner there has to be a loser and the risk has got tok big for some of the big players now. I also concur with some if the other posters who are teminding oeople on here that we are concentrating too much in thise that have voted for different parties at previous elections. There are plenty of people who havent voted for a long time just waiting to give the establishment a punch on the nose. That date is in 9 days time .. How do we account for them?
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
I'm not sure that's right. I remember crossing the France Spain border twice in about 1989, once on a motorway and once on a tiny, tiny road high up in the pyrenees, and there being border controls. Spain was definitely in the EEC by this stage.
Four years later, I repeated the journey, and they had gone.
Chimes with my memory. Often had my passport checked on trains in Europe when crossing borders in 1980s.
I'm sure Leave campaigners would agree that that Parliament is sovereign,therefore Parliament has the final say on the EUref decision.They need reminding the status of the referendum is merely "advisory".A majority of MPs in Parliament may choose NOT to accept the peoples' "advice" because that's all it is.It is non-binding.
David Allen Green @DavidAllenGreen 5m5 minutes ago In essence: the EU referendum is non-binding and advisory. The real issue is what then follows any vote for Brexit.
Article to come in FT.
It'd be perfectly legal. But absolute chaos would follow such a course. No Tory government could survive such a decision. We'd stumble toward a GE, and what then?
I do wonder what will happen if, after a Leave vote, immigration stays at the current level for a while.
Well, quite.
High immigration is linked to a booming economy. As Osborne has noted, you can reduce immigration significantly by crashing the economy. Not sure that is BoZo's ideal scenario
What booming economy ?
Immigration up, UK GDP forecast reduced.
1.6% growth isn't booming, it's below the UK trend.
Our GDP per capita is basically the same now as it was in 2006.
And that's the important one to most people. Growth of 1% when the population gets 1% bigger isn't growth to anyone except statisticians.
Not to mention the trillion pounds plus the incompetents of Downing Street have borrowed in that decade.
And yet we're told that all immigrants are net tax contributors.
Quite. That immigrants as a group might pay more tax then they claim in benefits, doesn't mean that the situation couldn't be substantially improved by having no immigrants claiming benefits or by restricting immigration to only higher-rate taxpayers.
The whole immigrants pay more tax than they claim in benefits meme deliberately omits the cost of the extra public services they use.
The problem with all surveys is that they only look at bits. Yes an immigrant taking a minimum wage job in the uk may be low cost but it doesn't include the cost in benefits of the local person who would have got that minimum wage job if the immigrant had never arrived.
For me the blind spot is that we've only really measured economic costs and benefits and then squabbled about the numbers. For most people there really is more to life than money. Identity, security, culture, fairness. What have they to do with GDP? For the establishment its been 'moah immigration, moah money, shut up racists'.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
The same logic would suggest that we should have staffed borders along the England/Scotland and England/Wales borders.
I actually agree with Robert that there will not be controlled borders in much of Europe, Schengen or no Schengen. But your comparison with England/Wales/Scotland is false as they are not separate states. I European terms that would be like having a controlled border between Bavaria and Thuringia.
Estobar's argument was simply that there should be checks on free movement in order to hinder criminal activity. Taken to its ultimate conclusion, this would imply that every single border of any type should be staffed for our safety. Of course, this is a nonsense. In reality, one must balance the benefits of free movement against any gains in security.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Why are people assuming vast leads for Remain in Northern Ireland ?
The only polling I've seen on the topic is from the Belfast Telegraph which shows a 55 / 35 lead for remain, this is from 2 or 3 weeks ago. Let's assume none of the Leave surge has happened there.
If we have turnout the same as the last general election, this results in a net remain lead of about 65k. It's probably lower now.
The FM is pro Leave, the SoS is pro Leave and NIPSA are pro Leave. I don't think it's a walk over for Remain either. The Tony & John show didn't help either.
I do wonder what will happen if, after a Leave vote, immigration stays at the current level for a while.
Well, quite.
High immigration is linked to a booming economy. As Osborne has noted, you can reduce immigration significantly by crashing the economy. Not sure that is BoZo's ideal scenario
What booming economy ?
Immigration up, UK GDP forecast reduced.
1.6% growth isn't booming, it's below the UK trend.
Our GDP per capita is basically the same now as it was in 2006.
And that's the important one to most people. Growth of 1% when the population gets 1% bigger isn't growth to anyone except statisticians.
Not to mention the trillion pounds plus the incompetents of Downing Street have borrowed in that decade.
And yet we're told that all immigrants are net tax contributors.
Quite. That immigrants as a group might pay more tax then they claim in benefits, doesn't mean that the situation couldn't be substantially improved by having no immigrants claiming benefits or by restricting immigration to only higher-rate taxpayers.
The problem with this is that when you do give the Home Office the power to decide who's allowed to immigrate, they manage to turn the large profits you naturally get with unregulated EU immigration into the substantial losses they make with non-EU immigration. I guess they do this because British voters want the government to let their dependent family members in, but don't want competition from people whose goal is to work.
You can see this bias in rules for letting spouses in, where a high-income British person is allowed to bring in their dependent spouse, but a low-income British person isn't allowed to let their high-income foreign spouse in to support them, because the British person is considered incapable of supporting their family and the Home Office won't count the money the foreigner would be making.
Of course you could say, "First we take back the power for the Home Office to decide things, then we fix its incentives so that it doesn't do stupid shit". The problem is that the former happens almost immediately, whereas the latter doesn't happen until some time after hell freezes over.
Don't start me on spousal immigration! The situation they really can't cope with is mine, where I met and married someone while working abroad. I can't prove I have any income as they only count income earned in the UK for their calculations. The result is that I would have to move back before her and get a job (self employment is something else they can't deal with) for up to two years.
The other alternative is for her to turn up and sue the govt under Human Rights, which would almost certainly win. The U.K. struggles both legally and psyically to deport almost anyone. If we had a child born in the UK that would also help.
Under any sort of points system she should easily qualify (she has a degree and is a teacher), maybe in a couple of years if we leave the EU the mess that is the Home Office might have some sympathy for a case like ours.
In the meantime we wonder how, to think of a pertinent example, a Rotherham taxi driver, manages to have no problem marrying his cousin in Pakistan and bringing her (and her parents and siblings) straight back to the UK.
Why are people assuming vast leads for Remain in Northern Ireland ?
The only polling I've seen on the topic is from the Belfast Telegraph which shows a 55 / 35 lead for remain, this is from 2 or 3 weeks ago. Let's assume none of the Leave surge has happened there.
If we have turnout the same as the last general election, this results in a net remain lead of about 65k. It's probably lower now.
I think someone said that the Catholic population was 80:20 in favour of Remain, while the Protestants broke 65:35 for Leave, which would imply perhaps a 100,000 vote lead for Remain there.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
The same logic would suggest that we should have staffed borders along the England/Scotland and England/Wales borders.
I actually agree with Robert that there will not be controlled borders in much of Europe, Schengen or no Schengen. But your comparison with England/Wales/Scotland is false as they are not separate states. I European terms that would be like having a controlled border between Bavaria and Thuringia.
Estobar's argument was simply that there should be checks on free movement in order to hinder criminal activity. Taken to its ultimate conclusion, this would imply that every single border of any type should be staffed for our safety. Of course, this is a nonsense. In reality, one must balance the benefits of free movement against any gains in security.
I think what it comes down to is how much trust you have about security at the next level. The Schengen idea is perfectly reasonable. Where I think they went wrong is in assuming that the eastern borders would be as secure as their old national borders.
The BBC are already running with this big time (in their completely impartial way of course). We have a government that is not particularly incentivised to stop pressure on the £, almost the reverse. At the moment we are talking 10ths of a cent but if this gathers momentum it has the potential to be a game changer. Watch the markets today, especially the £.
Pesky old BBC reporting news that you don't like. The other week they were reporting the high immigration numbers. Presumably that was less biased :-)
At the moment the £ is off about half a cent since midnight. It is not a particularly significant or large intraday change. But I suspect it will be presented as far more significant. If we get to a whole cent then the headlines will be lurid and some Leavers just might hesitate.
This is not over, not by a long chalk.
It seems to me that it is a strategic error for Remain to rely on almost purely materialistic arguments for their case.
Isn't that symptomatic of those who head Remain though?
To them, nations and democracy are a bit passé. Money, very definitely, is not.
I think people who do not have to worry about finding enough to pay the bills, put food on the table and keep a roof over their families' heads often have the exquisite luxury of being able to contemplate the broader picture. For most people, though, money and having enough of it to enjoy a decent life is at the centre of things.
Just as you had the exquisite luxury of being able to contemplate the broader picture when you disregarded the effects that immigration was having on working class neighbourhoods and working class lives.
Except I didn't. It's why I have always thought Leave would win.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
The same logic would suggest that we should have staffed borders along the England/Scotland and England/Wales borders.
I actually agree with Robert that there will not be controlled borders in much of Europe, Schengen or no Schengen. But your comparison with England/Wales/Scotland is false as they are not separate states. I European terms that would be like having a controlled border between Bavaria and Thuringia.
Estobar's argument was simply that there should be checks on free movement in order to hinder criminal activity. Taken to its ultimate conclusion, this would imply that every single border of any type should be staffed for our safety. Of course, this is a nonsense. In reality, one must balance the benefits of free movement against any gains in security.
I think what it comes down to is how much trust you have about security at the next level. The Schengen idea is perfectly reasonable. Where I think they went wrong is in assuming that the eastern borders would be as secure as their old national borders.
Free movement was a lovely idea when the EU members all had about the same economic success - we moved over there, and they came here - but not in great numbers.
When the Eurozone crisis happened - plus new members from very poor Eastern countries, it turned the whole thing into a mess. Add in Merkel's stupidity.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Yep. Make people choose a password with at least eight characters, that must contain uppercase, lowercase, numbers, symbols, no more than three consecutive letters from their username and no whole word from a dictionary, and make them change it every few weeks, leads to EVERYONE in the office having a post-it note on their monitor or keyboard with the password written down!
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
I'm not sure that's right. I remember crossing the France Spain border twice in about 1989, once on a motorway and once on a tiny, tiny road high up in the pyrenees, and there being border controls. Spain was definitely in the EEC by this stage.
Four years later, I repeated the journey, and they had gone.
That is correct. Spain and Portugal both had transitional arrangements on joining the EU. These were phased out by 1992. I had to have a visa to work in Spain until 1990.
"It now seems distinctly possible that next week the nation is going to turn its back on playing a major and constructive part in the world in favour of isolation and introversion. Given the nature of the Leave campaign, the things I most value about this country - tolerance and acceptance of others, openness, being outward-looking - would have been rejected. It's sad that it is even plausible.
For those like me that believe in such things, we would need to rethink our identity and our aims. The referendum result must be respected whichever way it goes but a Leave victory obtained in such a way would change my relationship with my country and my countrymen"
The post that most elegantly describes the feelings of many of us I would guess.
It's as though everything and everyone is suddenly alien. I don't care less whether a Leave vote makes me personally richer or poorer. It'll do something infinitely more depressing and bleak. It'll made me doubt the inate values of my fellow countrymen which for all our petty differences is something I've never done before.
"It now seems distinctly possible that next week the nation is going to turn its back on playing a major and constructive part in the world in favour of isolation and introversion. Given the nature of the Leave campaign, the things I most value about this country - tolerance and acceptance of others, openness, being outward-looking - would have been rejected. It's sad that it is even plausible.
For those like me that believe in such things, we would need to rethink our identity and our aims. The referendum result must be respected whichever way it goes but a Leave victory obtained in such a way would change my relationship with my country and my countrymen"
The post that most elegantly describes the feelings of many of us I would guess.
It's as though everything and everyone is suddenly alien. I don't care less whether a Leave vote makes me personally richer or poorer. It'll do something infinitely more depressing and bleak. It'll made me doubt the inate values of my fellow countrymen which for all our petty differences is something I've never done before
I struggle to see how the failed project is constructive. It's hardly isolationist either, just a rejection of continental governance over nation-state internationalism.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Yep. Make people choose a password with at least eight characters, that must contain uppercase, lowercase, numbers, symbols, no more than three consecutive letters from their username and no whole word from a dictionary, and make them change it every few weeks, leads to EVERYONE in the office having a post-it note on their monitor or keyboard with the password written down!
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
I do wonder what will happen if, after a Leave vote, immigration stays at the current level for a while.
Well, quite.
High immigration is linked to a booming economy. As Osborne has noted, you can reduce immigration significantly by crashing the economy. Not sure that is BoZo's ideal scenario
What booming economy ?
Immigration up, UK GDP forecast reduced.
1.6% growth isn't booming, it's below the UK trend.
Our GDP per capita is basically the same now as it was in 2006.
And that's the important one to most people. Growth of 1% when the population gets 1% bigger isn't growth to anyone except statisticians.
Not to mention the trillion pounds plus the incompetents of Downing Street have borrowed in that decade.
And yet we're told that all immigrants are net tax contributors.
Quite. That immigrants as a group might pay more tax then they claim in benefits, doesn't mean that the situation couldn't be substantially improved by having no immigrants claiming benefits or by restricting immigration to only higher-rate taxpayers.
The whole immigrants pay more tax than they claim in benefits meme deliberately omits the cost of the extra public services they use.
Nonsense. The UCL analysis specifically includes things such as health and education costs.
It is wholly irrelevant to the debate though.
One of the central planks of the controlled immigration argument is to look at people who wish to migrate and admit those who are skilled, net contributors and put up the 'Sorry, no vacancies' sign for those who are not skilled and/or who will be a net cost.
People who wish to migrate are not a homogeneous entity, they are a blend of individuals whose cases for entry have varying degrees of merit and who should be assessed accordingly.
"It now seems distinctly possible that next week the nation is going to turn its back on playing a major and constructive part in the world in favour of isolation and introversion. Given the nature of the Leave campaign, the things I most value about this country - tolerance and acceptance of others, openness, being outward-looking - would have been rejected. It's sad that it is even plausible.
For those like me that believe in such things, we would need to rethink our identity and our aims. The referendum result must be respected whichever way it goes but a Leave victory obtained in such a way would change my relationship with my country and my countrymen"
The post that most elegantly describes the feelings of many of us I would guess.
It's as though everything and everyone is suddenly alien. I don't care less whether a Leave vote makes me personally richer or poorer. It'll do something infinitely more depressing and bleak. It'll made me doubt the inate values of my fellow countrymen which for all our petty differences is something I've never done before.
You have always doubted the inate values of your fellow countrymen. Indeed you have regularly scorned them on here you are simply viewing this result through the prism if your own bigotry.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Yep. Make people choose a password with at least eight characters, that must contain uppercase, lowercase, numbers, symbols, no more than three consecutive letters from their username and no whole word from a dictionary, and make them change it every few weeks, leads to EVERYONE in the office having a post-it note on their monitor or keyboard with the password written down!
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
When I worked at the Cabinet Office [we had to leave our mobiles in a box on entry] - my default password was set as WorldCup200X. I changed it to WorldCup200Y. And then WorldCup200Z etc every week when it expired.
Why are people assuming vast leads for Remain in Northern Ireland ?
The only polling I've seen on the topic is from the Belfast Telegraph which shows a 55 / 35 lead for remain, this is from 2 or 3 weeks ago. Let's assume none of the Leave surge has happened there.
If we have turnout the same as the last general election, this results in a net remain lead of about 65k. It's probably lower now.
I think someone said that the Catholic population was 80:20 in favour of Remain, while the Protestants broke 65:35 for Leave, which would imply perhaps a 100,000 vote lead for Remain there.
That reflects the Feb polling, not the more recent ones. Then there was a 75% Nationalist Remain vote, with 63% unionist. (We should avoid language like Catholic and Protestant, it's unhelpful and inaccurate)
The leave numbers have firmed a bit since then up to 68% on 31st May. I think it's fair to assume it's trended a bit higher since. Perhaps the net remain vote is somewhere between 50k and 100k
Obviously all comes down to turnout, just over 30m people voted at the last election. Some people are clinging to Northern Ireland is good for 1% for Remain which isn't reflected in the polls.
That'd imply a net lead of 300k, which isn't going to happen.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Yep. Make people choose a password with at least eight characters, that must contain uppercase, lowercase, numbers, symbols, no more than three consecutive letters from their username and no whole word from a dictionary, and make them change it every few weeks, leads to EVERYONE in the office having a post-it note on their monitor or keyboard with the password written down!
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
Yes and then force regular changes.
Thanks KPMG.
You haven't lived if you haven't worked on a TS network, airgap or no.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
I'm not sure that's right. I remember crossing the France Spain border twice in about 1989, once on a motorway and once on a tiny, tiny road high up in the pyrenees, and there being border controls. Spain was definitely in the EEC by this stage.
Four years later, I repeated the journey, and they had gone.
That is correct. Spain and Portugal both had transitional arrangements on joining the EU. These were phased out by 1992. I had to have a visa to work in Spain until 1990.
When I was in Magalluf during Italia 90, there were lots of Brits working illegally for the bars and clubs. Always keeping an eye out for the law, and then pretending to be punters.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Yep. Make people choose a password with at least eight characters, that must contain uppercase, lowercase, numbers, symbols, no more than three consecutive letters from their username and no whole word from a dictionary, and make them change it every few weeks, leads to EVERYONE in the office having a post-it note on their monitor or keyboard with the password written down!
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
Tin foil hat time. If the run on the pound isn't materialising organically, is it possible that it might be 'made' to happen? I am being a little facetious.
The BBC are already running with this big time (in their completely impartial way of course). We have a government that is not particularly incentivised to stop pressure on the £, almost the reverse. At the moment we are talking 10ths of a cent but if this gathers momentum it has the potential to be a game changer. Watch the markets today, especially the £.
Pesky old BBC reporting news that you don't like. The other week they were reporting the high immigration numbers. Presumably that was less biased :-)
At the moment the £ is off about half a cent since midnight. It is not a particularly significant or large intraday change. But I suspect it will be presented as far more significant. If we get to a whole cent then the headlines will be lurid and some Leavers just might hesitate.
This is not over, not by a long chalk.
It seems to me that it is a strategic error for Remain to rely on almost purely materialistic arguments for their case.
Isn't that symptomatic of those who head Remain though?
To them, nations and democracy are a bit passé. Money, very definitely, is not.
I think people who do not have to worry about finding enough to pay the bills, put food on the table and keep a roof over their families' heads often have the exquisite luxury of being able to contemplate the broader picture. For most people, though, money and having enough of it to enjoy a decent life is at the centre of things.
Just as you had the exquisite luxury of being able to contemplate the broader picture when you disregarded the effects that immigration was having on working class neighbourhoods and working class lives.
Except I didn't. It's why I have always thought Leave would win.
Fair point.
I have to do some proper work now but I may return to the issue of the tax contribution of immigrants later if commitments allow.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
I'm not sure that's right. I remember crossing the France Spain border twice in about 1989, once on a motorway and once on a tiny, tiny road high up in the pyrenees, and there being border controls. Spain was definitely in the EEC by this stage.
Four years later, I repeated the journey, and they had gone.
Were you actually stopped, though?
Pre Schengen , there be border posts on roads, but they'd be unmanned. Or, occasionally, they'd be an overweight conscriptee smoking a cigarette and waving all the cars through.
As I remember, we had to show our passports, but that was all. We were clearly a family on holiday - not the smugglers these people are typically looking for.
But my point is one of detail. SO's point about transitional arrangements for Spain and Portugal prior to Schengen probably explains it.
Why are people assuming vast leads for Remain in Northern Ireland ?
The only polling I've seen on the topic is from the Belfast Telegraph which shows a 55 / 35 lead for remain, this is from 2 or 3 weeks ago. Let's assume none of the Leave surge has happened there.
If we have turnout the same as the last general election, this results in a net remain lead of about 65k. It's probably lower now.
I think someone said that the Catholic population was 80:20 in favour of Remain, while the Protestants broke 65:35 for Leave, which would imply perhaps a 100,000 vote lead for Remain there.
That reflects the Feb polling, not the more recent ones. Then there was a 75% Nationalist Remain vote, with 63% unionist. (We should avoid language like Catholic and Protestant, it's unhelpful and inaccurate)
The leave numbers have firmed a bit since then up to 68% on 31st May. I think it's fair to assume it's trended a bit higher since. Perhaps the net remain vote is somewhere between 50k and 100k
Obviously all comes down to turnout, just over 30m people voted at the last election. Some people are clinging to Northern Ireland is good for 1% for Remain which isn't reflected in the polls.
That'd imply a net lead of 300k, which isn't going to happen.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Yep. Make people choose a password with at least eight characters, that must contain uppercase, lowercase, numbers, symbols, no more than three consecutive letters from their username and no whole word from a dictionary, and make them change it every few weeks, leads to EVERYONE in the office having a post-it note on their monitor or keyboard with the password written down!
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Yep. Make people choose a password with at least eight characters, that must contain uppercase, lowercase, numbers, symbols, no more than three consecutive letters from their username and no whole word from a dictionary, and make them change it every few weeks, leads to EVERYONE in the office having a post-it note on their monitor or keyboard with the password written down!
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
That depends where the threat is, in a lot of situations if you've got an internet-accessible system accessed from a reasonably physically secure environment I'd prefer a post-it note on the monitor to a bad password.
Making people change passwords every 25 minutes finally seems to be going out of fashion though, thankfully.
Remain still have a 11 lead on the economy, that is what did for Ed.
For someone professing to support Leave you sure post a lot of posts on the other side
I think one of the biggest mistakes Remain made was to correlate a General Election with the EU Ref. A terrible, terrible, mistake.
By the way, nunu, you sleep even less than me. Or do you live abroad?
I just don't have my blinkers on like most on here, this has really become an echo chamber. As for my sleeping patterns I am unemployed at the moment which fits the pattern of me voting leave. Most people (almost all) who have middle class professional jobs are going to vote remain in my experience. They are just not going to risk that. Its only people who don't have anything to lose who will vote out mainly.
My team who would all probably be classed as middle class professionals have all declared for out bar 1 who can't make up their mind.
I was surprised, even my 22 yo son made my jaw drop by telling me he is def voting out. This came as a shock as he normally shows no interest in politics and I certainly don't talk with him about politics (absolutely no point). But he has worked out that mass immigration makes it harder for him to afford his own place and suppresses wages.
Still think Remain will edge it even though their supporters over the last couple of threads are down in the gutter by giving up on all else and simply labelling opponents as racists.
My concern is whichever side wins will not do it decisively. The problem will fester and rumble on. We really need a decisive vote whatever happens because one way or another we need a firm hard direction to follow on the morning of the 24th. 49/51 won't do it. .
"It now seems distinctly possible that next week the nation is going to turn its back on playing a major and constructive part in the world in favour of isolation and introversion. Given the nature of the Leave campaign, the things I most value about this country - tolerance and acceptance of others, openness, being outward-looking - would have been rejected. It's sad that it is even plausible.
For those like me that believe in such things, we would need to rethink our identity and our aims. The referendum result must be respected whichever way it goes but a Leave victory obtained in such a way would change my relationship with my country and my countrymen"
The post that most elegantly describes the feelings of many of us I would guess.
It's as though everything and everyone is suddenly alien. I don't care less whether a Leave vote makes me personally richer or poorer. It'll do something infinitely more depressing and bleak. It'll made me doubt the inate values of my fellow countrymen which for all our petty differences is something I've never done before.
You have always doubted the inate values of your fellow countrymen. Indeed you have regularly scorned them on here you are simply viewing this result through the prism if your own bigotry.
Do you ever wonder why posters insult you so much more infrequently than you insult them?
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Yep. Make people choose a password with at least eight characters, that must contain uppercase, lowercase, numbers, symbols, no more than three consecutive letters from their username and no whole word from a dictionary, and make them change it every few weeks, leads to EVERYONE in the office having a post-it note on their monitor or keyboard with the password written down!
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
When I worked at the Cabinet Office [we had to leave our mobiles in a box on entry] - my default password was set as WorldCup200X. I changed it to WorldCup200Y. And then WorldCup200Z etc every week when it expired.
It's stupid - the length of the password is far more important than the characters used to create it - for the simple reasons that a) people write down hard to remember passwords and b) they base their hard-to-remember password on a familiar word (crackers know the most common substitutions) so there are far fewer combinations in play than might be thought.
Far better to have a phrase! = several words. Mypasswordisalwaysweejonnie would be more effective in practice than Weejonnie1!!
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
I'm not sure that's right. I remember crossing the France Spain border twice in about 1989, once on a motorway and once on a tiny, tiny road high up in the pyrenees, and there being border controls. Spain was definitely in the EEC by this stage.
Four years later, I repeated the journey, and they had gone.
That is correct. Spain and Portugal both had transitional arrangements on joining the EU. These were phased out by 1992. I had to have a visa to work in Spain until 1990.
When I was in Magalluf during Italia 90, there were lots of Brits working illegally for the bars and clubs. Always keeping an eye out for the law, and then pretending to be punters.
Yep, it was pretty dodgy at times. Before I got my visa I had to rely on landlords not to check whether I had papers and could not visit a doctor or anything like that. But there were plenty of us who were happy to take the chance. We were young and nothing seemed like a problem. I suspect that we'll see something similar once visas are introduced for people from the EU in the UK. They'll come in as tourists and then disappear, like we did.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Yep. Make people choose a password with at least eight characters, that must contain uppercase, lowercase, numbers, symbols, no more than three consecutive letters from their username and no whole word from a dictionary, and make them change it every few weeks, leads to EVERYONE in the office having a post-it note on their monitor or keyboard with the password written down!
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
Yes and then force regular changes.
Thanks KPMG.
"As strong as can be. A team of power and energyyyy...."
Remain still have a 11 lead on the economy, that is what did for Ed.
For someone professing to support Leave you sure post a lot of posts on the other side
I think one of the biggest mistakes Remain made was to correlate a General Election with the EU Ref. A terrible, terrible, mistake.
By the way, nunu, you sleep even less than me. Or do you live abroad?
I just don't have my blinkers on like most on here, this has really become an echo chamber. As for my sleeping patterns I am unemployed at the moment which fits the pattern of me voting leave. Most people (almost all) who have middle class professional jobs are going to vote remain in my experience. They are just not going to risk that. Its only people who don't have anything to lose who will vote out mainly.
My team who would all probably be classed as middle class professionals have all declared for out bar 1 who can't make up their mind.
I was surprised, even my 22 yo son made my jaw drop by telling me he is def voting out. This came as a shock as he normally shows no interest in politics and I certainly don't talk with him about politics (absolutely no point). But he has worked out that mass immigration makes it harder for him to afford his own place and suppresses wages.
Friend of mine won't say he's for Brexit in the office - surrounded by other public sector workers. I wonder how many feel the same and aren't saying either ?!
I do wonder what will happen if, after a Leave vote, immigration stays at the current level for a while.
Well, quite.
High immigration is linked to a booming economy. As Osborne has noted, you can reduce immigration significantly by crashing the economy. Not sure that is BoZo's ideal scenario
What booming economy ?
Immigration up, UK GDP forecast reduced.
1.6% growth isn't booming, it's below the UK trend.
Our GDP per capita is basically the same now as it was in 2006.
And that's the important one to most people. Growth of 1% when the population gets 1% bigger isn't growth to anyone except statisticians.
Not to mention the trillion pounds plus the incompetents of Downing Street have borrowed in that decade.
And yet we're told that all immigrants are net tax contributors.
Quite. That immigrants as a group might pay more tax then they claim in benefits, doesn't mean that the situation couldn't be substantially improved by having no immigrants claiming benefits or by restricting immigration to only higher-rate taxpayers.
The whole immigrants pay more tax than they claim in benefits meme deliberately omits the cost of the extra public services they use.
Nonsense. The UCL analysis specifically includes things such as health and education costs.
It is wholly irrelevant to the debate though.
One of the central planks of the controlled immigration argument is to look at people who wish to migrate and admit those who are skilled, net contributors and put up the 'Sorry, no vacancies' sign for those who are not skilled and/or who will be a net cost.
People who wish to migrate are not a homogeneous entity, they are a blend of individuals whose cases for entry have varying degrees of merit and who should be assessed accordingly.
Or, alternatively, just let the free market for labour do its job far more efficiently than any bureaucrat can.
As an aside, why is it that the proponents of (additionally) controlled immigration are so keen to admit foreigners to high-paying roles but force Brits to do the potato picking and hotel room cleaning?
Dutch Minister calls for us to be more 'active' if we vote to Remain:
"He adds that voters in the UK may not be very interested in what he has to say, but he believes that there is a "strong argument for European co-operation" to be made.
He says that if the UK does vote to remain, he "would like to see them become an active member" of the EU, adding that the country has become "more and more passive" in its role in recent years. "
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Yep. Make people choose a password with at least eight characters, that must contain uppercase, lowercase, numbers, symbols, no more than three consecutive letters from their username and no whole word from a dictionary, and make them change it every few weeks, leads to EVERYONE in the office having a post-it note on their monitor or keyboard with the password written down!
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
When I worked at the Cabinet Office [we had to leave our mobiles in a box on entry] - my default password was set as WorldCup200X. I changed it to WorldCup200Y. And then WorldCup200Z etc every week when it expired.
I use either a series of my old car numbers or a word which has letters which can easily be transposed to numbers (O = Zero, for example) ...... colchester would be a variant on c01ch35t3r. Or the 1 can be !. Capital C or small c, too! Always comes up as “strong”.
No, I NEVER use Colchester!
Someone I know does a similar thing, but the words are in Welsh.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Yep. Make people choose a password with at least eight characters, that must contain uppercase, lowercase, numbers, symbols, no more than three consecutive letters from their username and no whole word from a dictionary, and make them change it every few weeks, leads to EVERYONE in the office having a post-it note on their monitor or keyboard with the password written down!
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
That depends where the threat is, in a lot of situations if you've got an internet-accessible system accessed from a reasonably physically secure environment I'd prefer a post-it note on the monitor to a bad password.
Making people change passwords every 25 minutes finally seems to be going out of fashion though, thankfully.
That's also true to some extent. The problems with post it notes are mainly internal rather than external - sending email from someone else's account, that sort of thing.
In practice, really complicated and regularly changed passwords are only needed for admin accounts and sensitive departments like HR and Finance. Most of the regular staff are better off having something they can remember easily. The top floor, of course, make up their own rules, the CEO just wants to use his wife's name and for it never to expire!
Dutch Minister calls for us to be more 'active' if we vote to Remain:
"He adds that voters in the UK may not be very interested in what he has to say, but he believes that there is a "strong argument for European co-operation" to be made.
He says that if the UK does vote to remain, he "would like to see them become an active member" of the EU, adding that the country has become "more and more passive" in its role in recent years. "
Dutch Minister calls for us to be more 'active' if we vote to Remain:
"He adds that voters in the UK may not be very interested in what he has to say, but he believes that there is a "strong argument for European co-operation" to be made.
He says that if the UK does vote to remain, he "would like to see them become an active member" of the EU, adding that the country has become "more and more passive" in its role in recent years. "
A bit more on that European Court of Justice ruling which says Britain can require recipients of child benefit and child tax credit to have a right to reside in the UK.
The European Commission had argued that checking whether claimants were legally resident amounted to discrimination against foreign EU workers because British citizens were not checked in that way.
But the court has found that the UK is operating within the rules on the free movement of citizens and was not "systematically" carrying out such verification, only investigating where there was "doubt".
"Although that condition is considered to amount to indirect discrimination, it is justified by the need to protect the finances of the host Member State," the ruling stated.
David Cameron made securing steps to curb what he calls “benefit tourism” a key focus of his EU renegotiation efforts, and this is expected to the first of several legal challenges to the concessions he obtained.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Yep. Make people choose a password with at least eight characters, that must contain uppercase, lowercase, numbers, symbols, no more than three consecutive letters from their username and no whole word from a dictionary, and make them change it every few weeks, leads to EVERYONE in the office having a post-it note on their monitor or keyboard with the password written down!
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
When I worked at the Cabinet Office [we had to leave our mobiles in a box on entry] - my default password was set as WorldCup200X. I changed it to WorldCup200Y. And then WorldCup200Z etc every week when it expired.
I use either a series of my old car numbers or a word which has letters which can easily be transposed to numbers (O = Zero, for example) ...... colchester would be a variant on c01ch35t3r. Or the 1 can be !. Capital C or small c, too! Always comes up as “strong”.
No, I NEVER use Colchester!
Someone I know does a similar thing, but the words are in Welsh.
Honestly, you're making too much work for yourself. Just use ColchesterColchesterColchesterthecitywealladore or something. Miles more entropy and much easier to remember.
Why are people assuming vast leads for Remain in Northern Ireland ?
The only polling I've seen on the topic is from the Belfast Telegraph which shows a 55 / 35 lead for remain, this is from 2 or 3 weeks ago. Let's assume none of the Leave surge has happened there.
If we have turnout the same as the last general election, this results in a net remain lead of about 65k. It's probably lower now.
I think someone said that the Catholic population was 80:20 in favour of Remain, while the Protestants broke 65:35 for Leave, which would imply perhaps a 100,000 vote lead for Remain there.
That reflects the Feb polling, not the more recent ones. Then there was a 75% Nationalist Remain vote, with 63% unionist. (We should avoid language like Catholic and Protestant, it's unhelpful and inaccurate)
The leave numbers have firmed a bit since then up to 68% on 31st May. I think it's fair to assume it's trended a bit higher since. Perhaps the net remain vote is somewhere between 50k and 100k
Obviously all comes down to turnout, just over 30m people voted at the last election. Some people are clinging to Northern Ireland is good for 1% for Remain which isn't reflected in the polls.
That'd imply a net lead of 300k, which isn't going to happen.
Top information. Excellent post.
So add 0.3% to Remain for NI and add 0.1% for Gibraltar.
For the expats, the Standard poll said 60% would vote and 75% of voters would back remain
1.3 million x0.6 x0.75= 600k remain 1.3 million x 0.6 x 0.25 = 200k leave So 400k net for remain =1.3%
For most people there really is more to life than money. Identity, security, culture, fairness. What have they to do with GDP?
Let them eat Sovereignty
We're a nations of porkers a diet will do us good and save the NHS zillions.
As lower food costs are an almost certainty post-Brexit, a diet is by no means guaranteed!
What makes you think food will be cheaper? Given that we import some 40% of our food and a drop in sterling is likely, won't this translate into higher food prices?
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Yep. Make people choose a password with at least eight characters, that must contain uppercase, lowercase, numbers, symbols, no more than three consecutive letters from their username and no whole word from a dictionary, and make them change it every few weeks, leads to EVERYONE in the office having a post-it note on their monitor or keyboard with the password written down!
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
When I worked at the Cabinet Office [we had to leave our mobiles in a box on entry] - my default password was set as WorldCup200X. I changed it to WorldCup200Y. And then WorldCup200Z etc every week when it expired.
It's stupid - the length of the password is far more important than the characters used to create it - for the simple reasons that a) people write down hard to remember passwords and b) they base their hard-to-remember password on a familiar word (crackers know the most common substitutions) so there are far fewer combinations in play than might be thought.
Far better to have a phrase! = several words. Mypasswordisalwaysweejonnie would be more effective in practice than Weejonnie1!!
Well quite. TBH, I wouldn't be surprised if my husband still used the same password variants he chose in the 00s. They're not obvious unless you know the original.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Yep. Make people choose a password with at least eight characters, that must contain uppercase, lowercase, numbers, symbols, no more than three consecutive letters from their username and no whole word from a dictionary, and make them change it every few weeks, leads to EVERYONE in the office having a post-it note on their monitor or keyboard with the password written down!
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
When I worked at the Cabinet Office [we had to leave our mobiles in a box on entry] - my default password was set as WorldCup200X. I changed it to WorldCup200Y. And then WorldCup200Z etc every week when it expired.
I use either a series of my old car numbers or a word which has letters which can easily be transposed to numbers (O = Zero, for example) ...... colchester would be a variant on c01ch35t3r. Or the 1 can be !. Capital C or small c, too! Always comes up as “strong”.
No, I NEVER use Colchester!
Someone I know does a similar thing, but the words are in Welsh.
Crackers know the obvious character substitutions for regular words, and can run millions of them to see which it is.
Don't start me on spousal immigration! The situation they really can't cope with is mine, where I met and married someone while working abroad. I can't prove I have any income as they only count income earned in the UK for their calculations. The result is that I would have to move back before her and get a job (self employment is something else they can't deal with) for up to two years.
The other alternative is for her to turn up and sue the govt under Human Rights, which would almost certainly win. The U.K. struggles both legally and psyically to deport almost anyone. If we had a child born in the UK that would also help.
Under any sort of points system she should easily qualify (she has a degree and is a teacher), maybe in a couple of years if we leave the EU the mess that is the Home Office might have some sympathy for a case like ours.
In the meantime we wonder how, to think of a pertinent example, a Rotherham taxi driver, manages to have no problem marrying his cousin in Pakistan and bringing her (and her parents and siblings) straight back to the UK.
Well this is the thing, when you look at actual cases on the sharp end it turns out that nearly *all* of them involve situations they can't really cope with. For some reason when people who want to expand the immigration bureaucracy run into this they always seem to assume their case is the exception, when in fact it's the rule. We've seen this from several different people right here on pb.
The "points system" thing is quite a sneaky trick by the pro-immigration-bureaucracy side, because everyone assumes that all the legitimate cases would have enough points. In reality it's the same process: A bunch of arbitrary box-checking rules, made by people chasing top-down targets, that inevitably fail when they run into actual, complicated human reality.
Remain still have a 11 lead on the economy, that is what did for Ed.
For someone professing to support Leave you sure post a lot of posts on the other side
I think one of the biggest mistakes Remain made was to correlate a General Election with the EU Ref. A terrible, terrible, mistake.
By the way, nunu, you sleep even less than me. Or do you live abroad?
I just don't have my blinkers on like most on here, this has really become an echo chamber. As for my sleeping patterns I am unemployed at the moment which fits the pattern of me voting leave. Most people (almost all) who have middle class professional jobs are going to vote remain in my experience. They are just not going to risk that. Its only people who don't have anything to lose who will vote out mainly.
My team who would all probably be classed as middle class professionals have all declared for out bar 1 who can't make up their mind.
I was surprised, even my 22 yo son made my jaw drop by telling me he is def voting out. This came as a shock as he normally shows no interest in politics and I certainly don't talk with him about politics (absolutely no point). But he has worked out that mass immigration makes it harder for him to afford his own place and suppresses wages.
Friend of mine won't say he's for Brexit in the office - surrounded by other public sector workers. I wonder how many feel the same and aren't saying either ?!
Never talk polictics in the office. Unless your a holier-than-thou leftie.
A bit more on that European Court of Justice ruling which says Britain can require recipients of child benefit and child tax credit to have a right to reside in the UK.
The European Commission had argued that checking whether claimants were legally resident amounted to discrimination against foreign EU workers because British citizens were not checked in that way.
But the court has found that the UK is operating within the rules on the free movement of citizens and was not "systematically" carrying out such verification, only investigating where there was "doubt".
"Although that condition is considered to amount to indirect discrimination, it is justified by the need to protect the finances of the host Member State," the ruling stated.
David Cameron made securing steps to curb what he calls “benefit tourism” a key focus of his EU renegotiation efforts, and this is expected to the first of several legal challenges to the concessions he obtained.
Or, we could leave and EU citizens would have no right to child benefits.
Given we're just over a week away from a referendum, I'm guessing anyone enraged by this issue will vote to leave.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Yep. Make people choose a password with at least eight characters, that must contain uppercase, lowercase, numbers, symbols, no more than three consecutive letters from their username and no whole word from a dictionary, and make them change it every few weeks, leads to EVERYONE in the office having a post-it note on their monitor or keyboard with the password written down!
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
When I worked at the Cabinet Office [we had to leave our mobiles in a box on entry] - my default password was set as WorldCup200X. I changed it to WorldCup200Y. And then WorldCup200Z etc every week when it expired.
I use either a series of my old car numbers or a word which has letters which can easily be transposed to numbers (O = Zero, for example) ...... colchester would be a variant on c01ch35t3r. Or the 1 can be !. Capital C or small c, too! Always comes up as “strong”.
No, I NEVER use Colchester!
Someone I know does a similar thing, but the words are in Welsh.
Honestly, you're making too much work for yourself. Just use ColchesterColchesterColchesterthecitywealladore or something. Miles more entropy and much easier to remember.
Probably too long. Most sites seem to ask for 8-16 letters or whatever.
For most people there really is more to life than money. Identity, security, culture, fairness. What have they to do with GDP?
Let them eat Sovereignty
We're a nations of porkers a diet will do us good and save the NHS zillions.
As lower food costs are an almost certainty post-Brexit, a diet is by no means guaranteed!
What makes you think food will be cheaper? Given that we import some 40% of our food and a drop in sterling is likely, won't this translate into higher food prices?
The EU compels us to put exhorbitant tariffs on food. Lose those and the price will come down dramatically.
On the polls not really shifting the markets, presumably that's because organisations are conducting their own private polls? A high Brexit risk must surely now be factored in.
Remain still have a 11 lead on the economy, that is what did for Ed.
For someone professing to support Leave you sure post a lot of posts on the other side
I think one of the biggest mistakes Remain made was to correlate a General Election with the EU Ref. A terrible, terrible, mistake.
By the way, nunu, you sleep even less than me. Or do you live abroad?
I just don't have my blinkers on like most on here, this has really become an echo chamber. As for my sleeping patterns I am unemployed at the moment which fits the pattern of me voting leave. Most people (almost all) who have middle class professional jobs are going to vote remain in my experience. They are just not going to risk that. Its only people who don't have anything to lose who will vote out mainly.
My team who would all probably be classed as middle class professionals have all declared for out bar 1 who can't make up their mind.
I was surprised, even my 22 yo son made my jaw drop by telling me he is def voting out. This came as a shock as he normally shows no interest in politics and I certainly don't talk with him about politics (absolutely no point). But he has worked out that mass immigration makes it harder for him to afford his own place and suppresses wages.
Friend of mine won't say he's for Brexit in the office - surrounded by other public sector workers. I wonder how many feel the same and aren't saying either ?!
Never talk politics in the office. Unless your a holier-than-thou leftie.
The last thing you'd want to be in my office is a lefty
The polls over the last few days are a wonderful testament to the British people. They are embracing an outward looking global future for the UK and rejecting the Mosleyite view of Britain having a white European destiny. Its likely the reactionary pro-EU contingent will mount a rearguard to protect their racist project, but I believe decency will triumph over hate.
A bit more on that European Court of Justice ruling which says Britain can require recipients of child benefit and child tax credit to have a right to reside in the UK.
The European Commission had argued that checking whether claimants were legally resident amounted to discrimination against foreign EU workers because British citizens were not checked in that way.
But the court has found that the UK is operating within the rules on the free movement of citizens and was not "systematically" carrying out such verification, only investigating where there was "doubt".
"Although that condition is considered to amount to indirect discrimination, it is justified by the need to protect the finances of the host Member State," the ruling stated.
David Cameron made securing steps to curb what he calls “benefit tourism” a key focus of his EU renegotiation efforts, and this is expected to the first of several legal challenges to the concessions he obtained.
Or, we could leave and EU citizens would have no right to child benefits.
Given we're just over a week away from a referendum, I'm guessing anyone enraged by this issue will vote to leave.
But right to free movement of labour as I cannot see anyway past this issue if we want to trade with the EU
"It now seems distinctly possible that next week the nation is going to turn its back on playing a major and constructive part in the world in favour of isolation and introversion. Given the nature of the Leave campaign, the things I most value about this country - tolerance and acceptance of others, openness, being outward-looking - would have been rejected. It's sad that it is even plausible.
For those like me that believe in such things, we would need to rethink our identity and our aims. The referendum result must be respected whichever way it goes but a Leave victory obtained in such a way would change my relationship with my country and my countrymen"
The post that most elegantly describes the feelings of many of us I would guess.
It's as though everything and everyone is suddenly alien. I don't care less whether a Leave vote makes me personally richer or poorer. It'll do something infinitely more depressing and bleak. It'll made me doubt the inate values of my fellow countrymen which for all our petty differences is something I've never done before.
You have always doubted the inate values of your fellow countrymen. Indeed you have regularly scorned them on here you are simply viewing this result through the prism if your own bigotry.
Do you ever wonder why posters insult you so much more infrequently than you insult them?
Simply pointing out one of your failings Roger. You are a bigot who views his fellow countrymen with disdain and has never been afraid to make that perfectly obvious. I have no idea whether it is because of a life time spent in advertising or just some innate sense of superiority you feel. But it is clear in your comments.
For most people there really is more to life than money. Identity, security, culture, fairness. What have they to do with GDP?
Let them eat Sovereignty
We're a nations of porkers a diet will do us good and save the NHS zillions.
As lower food costs are an almost certainty post-Brexit, a diet is by no means guaranteed!
What makes you think food will be cheaper? Given that we import some 40% of our food and a drop in sterling is likely, won't this translate into higher food prices?
Because the UK can abandon the "keep the wogs poor" Common Agricultural Policy with its high tariffs and price floors.
If only I needed just to remember one password with a mixture of upper and lower case characters, numerals, special characters and at least 8 digits long. For work alone I must have at least five.
The company that works out how to deliver a secure but easy to remember password system is going to make a fortune.
Dutch Minister calls for us to be more 'active' if we vote to Remain:
"He adds that voters in the UK may not be very interested in what he has to say, but he believes that there is a "strong argument for European co-operation" to be made.
He says that if the UK does vote to remain, he "would like to see them become an active member" of the EU, adding that the country has become "more and more passive" in its role in recent years. "
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Yep. Make people choose a password with at least eight characters, that must contain uppercase, lowercase, numbers, symbols, no more than three consecutive letters from their username and no whole word from a dictionary, and make them change it every few weeks, leads to EVERYONE in the office having a post-it note on their monitor or keyboard with the password written down!
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
That depends where the threat is, in a lot of situations if you've got an internet-accessible system accessed from a reasonably physically secure environment I'd prefer a post-it note on the monitor to a bad password.
Making people change passwords every 25 minutes finally seems to be going out of fashion though, thankfully.
That's also true to some extent. The problems with post it notes are mainly internal rather than external - sending email from someone else's account, that sort of thing.
In practice, really complicated and regularly changed passwords are only needed for admin accounts and sensitive departments like HR and Finance. Most of the regular staff are better off having something they can remember easily. The top floor, of course, make up their own rules, the CEO just wants to use his wife's name and for it never to expire!
James Forsyth @JGForsyth Former No 10 aide, and close Cameron friend, Chris Lockwood blaming Merkel for giving UK too little on immigration
Chris Lockwood @chrislockwd I blame Merkel for this. Had she given Cameron emergency break on immigration this would be a lot easier.
He should blame her for unilaterally opening the EUs borders to anyone who wanted to come here. No democratic input, just her say-so. THAT was the straw that broke this particular camel's back.
If only I needed just to remember one password with a mixture of upper and lower case characters, numerals, special characters and at least 8 digits long. For work alone I must have at least five.
The company that works out how to deliver a secure but easy to remember password system is going to make a fortune.
Let your browser remember your passwords, with a master password that unlocks them.
For the expats, the Standard poll said 60% would vote and 75% of voters would back remain
1.3 million x0.6 x0.75= 600k remain 1.3 million x 0.6 x 0.25 = 200k leave So 400k net for remain =1.3%
So total expats+NI+Gib=1.7% to the remain score
I'm not sure what the GE numbers are but I'd be very surprised if turnout was anything like that high.
The registration process is a PITA even if you were already registered in Britain - for example, I had to find a British person to witness my application; Obviously the high-security process of some unknown person signing a piece of paper can't be done by any old foreigner. There's now a British person working at one of my client's offices but for a long time I didn't know any British people in Japan. And from memory there was some kind of weird stipulation that they had to be a British person living outside Britain, although not necessarily in the country you lived in. (I may be getting the details jumbled but there were definitely hoops to jump through.)
If you weren't previously registered in Britain I'm not sure that it's even possible to vote at all. And then there's Labour's 15-year limit as well.
Adding this to UK things like individual registration, the irony here is that this mainstream Labour and Tory cause may well be lost because of the various measures that they've each taken over the years to stop the other side's supporters from voting. Two dogs fight for a bone and a third one runs away with it etc etc.
But right to free movement of labour as I cannot see anyway past this issue if we want to trade with the EU
Do you really believe that we wouldn't be able to trade with the EU if we left? Japan is one of the largest non-EU exporters into the EU, there's no free movement between Japan and the EU, the US is the largest trading partner with the EU, there's no free movement between the U and EU.
We will still be able to trade with the EU and we will still be able to buy Mercedes and BMWs. Very little will change if we leave in terms of trade.
RCS, the logistics of it is tough but they will find a way. Most of the world. Actually, all of the world, staffs their borders.
It's down to will. At the moment the liberal EU luvvies can't believe that we should place checks on free movement. They think the world is lovely and liberal. The fact that not everyone shares this perspective and are hell-bent on criminal activity never entered their elitist dreams.
There have been no real border checks in the post second world war period in Western Europe
It's all part of the ISIS reality check wake-up.
Get used to it Europe. The rest of the world has.
The trouble is it's a shit security model. Pie crust just doesn't work, whether that's networks or borders. It's trivial to bypass or subvert border controls.
Yup, it's a shit model that always seems attractive to non-security people. Got some external danger? Stop it at the border, so it doesn't come in. Budget for a more expensive firewall? Sure. Make me choose a password that isn't the single-word name of my favourite football team? Stop pestering me with your silly IT rules, I'm trying to get some work done.
Yep. Make people choose a password with at least eight characters, that must contain uppercase, lowercase, numbers, symbols, no more than three consecutive letters from their username and no whole word from a dictionary, and make them change it every few weeks, leads to EVERYONE in the office having a post-it note on their monitor or keyboard with the password written down!
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
When I worked at the Cabinet Office [we had to leave our mobiles in a box on entry] - my default password was set as WorldCup200X. I changed it to WorldCup200Y. And then WorldCup200Z etc every week when it expired.
I use either a series of my old car numbers or a word which has letters which can easily be transposed to numbers (O = Zero, for example) ...... colchester would be a variant on c01ch35t3r. Or the 1 can be !. Capital C or small c, too! Always comes up as “strong”.
No, I NEVER use Colchester!
Someone I know does a similar thing, but the words are in Welsh.
Honestly, you're making too much work for yourself. Just use ColchesterColchesterColchesterthecitywealladore or something. Miles more entropy and much easier to remember.
I like the idea of number plates. Remembering which one I used would get confusing though.
If only I needed just to remember one password with a mixture of upper and lower case characters, numerals, special characters and at least 8 digits long. For work alone I must have at least five.
The company that works out how to deliver a secure but easy to remember password system is going to make a fortune.
The make and reg of my dad's car from 40-odd years ago is going to take some guessing.....
If only I needed just to remember one password with a mixture of upper and lower case characters, numerals, special characters and at least 8 digits long. For work alone I must have at least five.
The company that works out how to deliver a secure but easy to remember password system is going to make a fortune.
I do wonder what will happen if, after a Leave vote, immigration stays at the current level for a while.
Well, quite.
High immigration is linked to a booming economy. As Osborne has noted, you can reduce immigration significantly by crashing the economy. Not sure that is BoZo's ideal scenario
What booming economy ?
Immigration up, UK GDP forecast reduced.
1.6% growth isn't booming, it's below the UK trend.
Our GDP per capita is basically the same now as it was in 2006.
And that's the important one to most people. Growth of 1% when the population gets 1% bigger isn't growth to anyone except statisticians.
Not to mention the trillion pounds plus the incompetents of Downing Street have borrowed in that decade.
And yet we're told that all immigrants are net tax contributors.
Quite. That immigrants as a group might pay more tax then they claim in benefits, doesn't mean that the situation couldn't be substantially improved by having no immigrants claiming benefits or by restricting immigration to only higher-rate taxpayers.
The whole immigrants pay more tax than they claim in benefits meme deliberately omits the cost of the extra public services they use.
Nonsense. The UCL analysis specifically includes things such as health and education costs.
It is wholly irrelevant to the debate though.
One of the central planks of the controlled immigration argument is to look at people who wish to migrate and admit those who are skilled, net contributors and put up the 'Sorry, no vacancies' sign for those who are not skilled and/or who will be a net cost.
People who wish to migrate are not a homogeneous entity, they are a blend of individuals whose cases for entry have varying degrees of merit and who should be assessed accordingly.
Or, alternatively, just let the free market for labour do its job far more efficiently than any bureaucrat can.
As an aside, why is it that the proponents of (additionally) controlled immigration are so keen to admit foreigners to high-paying roles but force Brits to do the potato picking and hotel room cleaning?
What is it with Europhiles and their instinct for compulsion? No one will be compelled to do any job. A worker can choose whether they want to potato pick or clean hotel rooms or do something else. I imagine employers might have to offer higher wages to make the first two attractive.
If only I needed just to remember one password with a mixture of upper and lower case characters, numerals, special characters and at least 8 digits long. For work alone I must have at least five.
The company that works out how to deliver a secure but easy to remember password system is going to make a fortune.
I have mine written down in code. Seriously it's the only way I remember them. I'm lucky to only need three, I have no idea why anyone would need five!
"It now seems distinctly possible that next week the nation is going to turn its back on playing a major and constructive part in the world in favour of isolation and introversion. Given the nature of the Leave campaign, the things I most value about this country - tolerance and acceptance of others, openness, being outward-looking - would have been rejected. It's sad that it is even plausible.
For those like me that believe in such things, we would need to rethink our identity and our aims. The referendum result must be respected whichever way it goes but a Leave victory obtained in such a way would change my relationship with my country and my countrymen"
The post that most elegantly describes the feelings of many of us I would guess.
It's as though everything and everyone is suddenly alien. I don't care less whether a Leave vote makes me personally richer or poorer. It'll do something infinitely more depressing and bleak. It'll made me doubt the inate values of my fellow countrymen which for all our petty differences is something I've never done before.
You have always doubted the inate values of your fellow countrymen. Indeed you have regularly scorned them on here you are simply viewing this result through the prism if your own bigotry.
Do you ever wonder why posters insult you so much more infrequently than you insult them?
I don't think I've ever made one ad hominem attack on Richard, but every time I post nowadays I seem to get something personal back, not only from him, but from many others on this site.
seanT's gracious remarks to me last night made for some grim reading.
It doesn't bother me though at all. I'm thick skinned- and these kind of personal insults real far more about the unpleasant character and personality of the people making them than they could about me.
Comments
The only polling I've seen on the topic is from the Belfast Telegraph which shows a 55 / 35 lead for remain, this is from 2 or 3 weeks ago. Let's assume none of the Leave surge has happened there.
If we have turnout the same as the last general election, this results in a net remain lead of about 65k. It's probably lower now.
I also concur with some if the other posters who are teminding oeople on here that we are concentrating too much in thise that have voted for different parties at previous elections.
There are plenty of people who havent voted for a long time just waiting to give the establishment a punch on the nose.
That date is in 9 days time ..
How do we account for them?
Remain for the win.
The other alternative is for her to turn up and sue the govt under Human Rights, which would almost certainly win. The U.K. struggles both legally and psyically to deport almost anyone. If we had a child born in the UK that would also help.
Under any sort of points system she should easily qualify (she has a degree and is a teacher), maybe in a couple of years if we leave the EU the mess that is the Home Office might have some sympathy for a case like ours.
In the meantime we wonder how, to think of a pertinent example, a Rotherham taxi driver, manages to have no problem marrying his cousin in Pakistan and bringing her (and her parents and siblings) straight back to the UK.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36526158
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/germany-has-much-to-lose-if-britain-leaves-a-1097029.html
When the Eurozone crisis happened - plus new members from very poor Eastern countries, it turned the whole thing into a mess. Add in Merkel's stupidity.
It's just not desirable or sustainable.
The security guy and the CIO think it's great that their network is so secure with these complicated passwords...
PS Off to the docs later, hopefully will get a clean bill of health so can stop wittering on here so much
I still think they'll win, but it'll be closer than it should've been.
Incidentally, anyone wanting running mockery of safe spaces and the like may enjoy Godfrey Elfwick's Twitter account.
"It now seems distinctly possible that next week the nation is going to turn its back on playing a major and constructive part in the world in favour of isolation and introversion. Given the nature of the Leave campaign, the things I most value about this country - tolerance and acceptance of others, openness, being outward-looking - would have been rejected. It's sad that it is even plausible.
For those like me that believe in such things, we would need to rethink our identity and our aims. The referendum result must be respected whichever way it goes but a Leave victory obtained in such a way would change my relationship with my country and my countrymen"
The post that most elegantly describes the feelings of many of us I would guess.
It's as though everything and everyone is suddenly alien. I don't care less whether a Leave vote makes me personally richer or poorer. It'll do something infinitely more depressing and bleak. It'll made me doubt the inate values of my fellow countrymen which for all our petty differences is something I've never done before.
Thanks KPMG.
One of the central planks of the controlled immigration argument is to look at people who wish to migrate and admit those who are skilled, net contributors and put up the 'Sorry, no vacancies' sign for those who are not skilled and/or who will be a net cost.
People who wish to migrate are not a homogeneous entity, they are a blend of individuals whose cases for entry have varying degrees of merit and who should be assessed accordingly.
The leave numbers have firmed a bit since then up to 68% on 31st May. I think it's fair to assume it's trended a bit higher since. Perhaps the net remain vote is somewhere between 50k and 100k
Obviously all comes down to turnout, just over 30m people voted at the last election. Some people are clinging to Northern Ireland is good for 1% for Remain which isn't reflected in the polls.
That'd imply a net lead of 300k, which isn't going to happen.
https://xkcd.com/936/
I have to do some proper work now but I may return to the issue of the tax contribution of immigrants later if commitments allow.
Have a nice day all.
But my point is one of detail. SO's point about transitional arrangements for Spain and Portugal prior to Schengen probably explains it.
Making people change passwords every 25 minutes finally seems to be going out of fashion though, thankfully.
I was surprised, even my 22 yo son made my jaw drop by telling me he is def voting out. This came as a shock as he normally shows no interest in politics and I certainly don't talk with him about politics (absolutely no point). But he has worked out that mass immigration makes it harder for him to afford his own place and suppresses wages.
http://world.std.com/~reinhold/diceware.html
My concern is whichever side wins will not do it decisively. The problem will fester and rumble on. We really need a decisive vote whatever happens because one way or another we need a firm hard direction to follow on the morning of the 24th. 49/51 won't do it. .
Far better to have a phrase! = several words. Mypasswordisalwaysweejonnie would be more effective in practice than Weejonnie1!!
I particularly liked the Asian taxi driver: "the Labour Party does not control my mind." Which neatly encapsulates the problem for Labour Remain.
As an aside, why is it that the proponents of (additionally) controlled immigration are so keen to admit foreigners to high-paying roles but force Brits to do the potato picking and hotel room cleaning?
"He adds that voters in the UK may not be very interested in what he has to say, but he believes that there is a "strong argument for European co-operation" to be made.
He says that if the UK does vote to remain, he "would like to see them become an active member" of the EU, adding that the country has become "more and more passive" in its role in recent years. "
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-36499134
I think we all know what that means.
No, I NEVER use Colchester!
Someone I know does a similar thing, but the words are in Welsh.
In practice, really complicated and regularly changed passwords are only needed for admin accounts and sensitive departments like HR and Finance. Most of the regular staff are better off having something they can remember easily. The top floor, of course, make up their own rules, the CEO just wants to use his wife's name and for it never to expire!
'Cos we asked for bugger all and they knew Cameron would settle for less. It would look as though he’d "done his best”. Good PR.
European Court ruling on UK benefit curbs
A bit more on that European Court of Justice ruling which says Britain can require recipients of child benefit and child tax credit to have a right to reside in the UK.
The European Commission had argued that checking whether claimants were legally resident amounted to discrimination against foreign EU workers because British citizens were not checked in that way.
But the court has found that the UK is operating within the rules on the free movement of citizens and was not "systematically" carrying out such verification, only investigating where there was "doubt".
"Although that condition is considered to amount to indirect discrimination, it is justified by the need to protect the finances of the host Member State," the ruling stated.
David Cameron made securing steps to curb what he calls “benefit tourism” a key focus of his EU renegotiation efforts, and this is expected to the first of several legal challenges to the concessions he obtained.
For the expats, the Standard poll said 60% would vote and 75% of voters would back remain
1.3 million x0.6 x0.75= 600k remain
1.3 million x 0.6 x 0.25 = 200k leave
So 400k net for remain =1.3%
So total expats+NI+Gib=1.7% to the remain score
Crackers know the obvious character substitutions for regular words, and can run millions of them to see which it is.
The "points system" thing is quite a sneaky trick by the pro-immigration-bureaucracy side, because everyone assumes that all the legitimate cases would have enough points. In reality it's the same process: A bunch of arbitrary box-checking rules, made by people chasing top-down targets, that inevitably fail when they run into actual, complicated human reality.
Given we're just over a week away from a referendum, I'm guessing anyone enraged by this issue will vote to leave.
Maybe they secretly are for leave? Master strategist after all?
;-)
European Court ruling on UK benefit curbs
A bit more on that European Court of Justice ruling which says Britain can require recipients of child benefit and child tax credit to have a right to reside in the UK.
The European Commission had argued that checking whether claimants were legally resident amounted to discrimination against foreign EU workers because British citizens were not checked in that way.
But the court has found that the UK is operating within the rules on the free movement of citizens and was not "systematically" carrying out such verification, only investigating where there was "doubt".
"Although that condition is considered to amount to indirect discrimination, it is justified by the need to protect the finances of the host Member State," the ruling stated.
David Cameron made securing steps to curb what he calls “benefit tourism” a key focus of his EU renegotiation efforts, and this is expected to the first of several legal challenges to the concessions he obtained.
Or, we could leave and EU citizens would have no right to child benefits.
Given we're just over a week away from a referendum, I'm guessing anyone enraged by this issue will vote to leave.
But right to free movement of labour as I cannot see anyway past this issue if we want to trade with the EU
The company that works out how to deliver a secure but easy to remember password system is going to make a fortune.
He should blame her for unilaterally opening the EUs borders to anyone who wanted to come here. No democratic input, just her say-so. THAT was the straw that broke this particular camel's back.
Let your browser remember your passwords, with a master password that unlocks them.
The registration process is a PITA even if you were already registered in Britain - for example, I had to find a British person to witness my application; Obviously the high-security process of some unknown person signing a piece of paper can't be done by any old foreigner. There's now a British person working at one of my client's offices but for a long time I didn't know any British people in Japan. And from memory there was some kind of weird stipulation that they had to be a British person living outside Britain, although not necessarily in the country you lived in. (I may be getting the details jumbled but there were definitely hoops to jump through.)
If you weren't previously registered in Britain I'm not sure that it's even possible to vote at all. And then there's Labour's 15-year limit as well.
Adding this to UK things like individual registration, the irony here is that this mainstream Labour and Tory cause may well be lost because of the various measures that they've each taken over the years to stop the other side's supporters from voting. Two dogs fight for a bone and a third one runs away with it etc etc.
We will still be able to trade with the EU and we will still be able to buy Mercedes and BMWs. Very little will change if we leave in terms of trade.
seanT's gracious remarks to me last night made for some grim reading.
It doesn't bother me though at all. I'm thick skinned- and these kind of personal insults real far more about the unpleasant character and personality of the people making them than they could about me.