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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Looks like Labour MPs have been reading their Macbeth. If i

SystemSystem Posts: 11,721
edited June 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Looks like Labour MPs have been reading their Macbeth. If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well It were done quickly.

Moderate MPs who believe Mr Corbyn can never win back power think his failure to close down public rows which flare up and dominate the news channels leaves him vulnerable.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,060
    Leave.EU and Mad Nad keep on digging... not much longer to go to put both out of their positive campaigning delights..
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    Chances of removing Corbyn? Very low unless he was to be replaced by McDonnell.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    It goes to show how out of touch the Blairite wing of the Labour Party is that they think the issue to go to war with Corbyn over is the one issue where he's more in tune with public opinion than they are.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Golly

    "As we near the business end of the campaign there has been an enormous rise in the number of people signing up to volunteer. As I write this, there are 709 people who have gone to the trouble of pledging their support or ability to help with campaigning in Newham. That is an increase of nearly 200 in one week in just one borough. I am told this is being repeated across London and the entire country."

    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/06/eu-referendum-campaign-diaries-week-3-shy-leavers-emerge-as-do-remain-councillors-as-the-big-decision-approaches.html
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,026
    Vapid bilge
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited June 2016
    ICM PREDICTION poll:

    Leave 51%
    Remain 49%
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    nunu said:

    ICM poll:

    Leave 51%
    Remain 49%

    The mo is real.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,688
    nunu said:

    ICM poll:

    Leave 51%
    Remain 49%

    Link?
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    First blood to England at Lords and its Anderson again.
    Sri Lanka need 317 runs with 9 wickets left.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    atleast that is my prediction. ;)
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    If TSE is relying on a Telegraph report on the possible removal of Corbyn he is a bit desperate .
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    It's too early for the Jezza bell to toll.

    Polling yesterday had him 63-37 to stay in post even if we Leave.

    The moderates need to ask whether they speak for Labour voters judging by all the talk of Labour leavers.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    nunu said:

    atleast that is my prediction. ;)

    Oh for crying out loud!
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    FPT

    Wow.

    From the report by the conhome canvasser in Newham:

    "Not a canvass session goes by when I do not encounter someone who claims to be undecided, then asks which way I am campaigning before ‘fessing up’ that they too are voting leave. This seems to be more prevalent among ethnic minority residents in my experience. Every new member of our canvassing teams gets excited by shy leavers “they said they didn’t know but when I told them I was for leave, they whispered and said they were too!”

    I would be very sceptical of this shy leaver talk. The fact is people love to please.

    Either that or tell you they agree just so you leave...

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    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    nunu said:

    atleast that is my prediction. ;)

    Oh for crying out loud!
    How do you do a troll emoticon on here. Lol
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667
    Like @Danny565, I'm at pains to understand why the Blairites are risking a party split over this subject. The EU rates extremely low on the Labour voter/member agenda. At least in the Tory party its an issue which burns the passions of members and MPs. You can understand a split party once Dave tried to sell us on the shit deal. If the New Labour types try and force Corbyn out over Europe they are more unhinged than I thought
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited June 2016
    The wait is torture.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    I disagree with Nick Palmer on just about everything Labour-wise these days, but on one thing he is absolutely right. Jeremy Corbyn is not going anywhere until an alternative who labour members will vote for emerges. There is no sign of one.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,214
    edited June 2016
    If it is Leave Corbyn stays in post as he is a sceptic, if a narrow Remain probably too. Cameron would be gone if the former
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667
    nunu said:

    nunu said:

    atleast that is my prediction. ;)

    Oh for crying out loud!
    How do you do a troll emoticon on here. Lol
    Please don't do that, some of us are betting real money on this.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,688

    If TSE is relying on a Telegraph report on the possible removal of Corbyn he is a bit desperate .

    Tsk Mark, it was the New Statesman last week, the Telegraph today.

    Can you provide me with a list of suitable news organisations I can base PB threads on?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,688
    This is the new standard PB pic for all Corbyn related threads.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,806
    nunu said:

    atleast that is my prediction. ;)

    Banning offence! :wink:
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    I disagree with Nick Palmer on just about everything Labour-wise these days, but on one thing he is absolutely right. Jeremy Corbyn is not going anywhere until an alternative who labour members will vote for emerges. There is no sign of one.

    Agreed , Tooting will give a big win to Labour and big boost to Corbyn in the short term .
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,688
    nunu said:

    atleast that is my prediction. ;)

    Mike has banned people who post false polling information on PB.

    There's real money being staked here.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,806
    On topic, since Labour MPs couldn't topple an overfilled martini glass, why should we believe Corbyn overthrow plot no.273?
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    FPT

    Wow.

    From the report by the conhome canvasser in Newham:

    "Not a canvass session goes by when I do not encounter someone who claims to be undecided, then asks which way I am campaigning before ‘fessing up’ that they too are voting leave. This seems to be more prevalent among ethnic minority residents in my experience. Every new member of our canvassing teams gets excited by shy leavers “they said they didn’t know but when I told them I was for leave, they whispered and said they were too!”

    I would be very sceptical of this shy leaver talk. The fact is people love to please.

    Either that or tell you they agree just so you leave...

    We've been here before with both the Nats and Labour's awesome ground game (what was it? Three million conversations?). I'm not just Eurosceptic, I'm sceptical by nature. Lovely to see someone fired up by it all though.

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,688
    Re the forthcoming ICM phone poll.

    I'm busy for the next few hours, and will cover it on my return.
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    That picture needs to be circulated round the working class Labour seats. Will go down a treat.

    Is the coat real fur?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    This is the new standard PB pic for all Corbyn related threads.

    It is a great picture. Good on him for being able to take the piss out of himself. Still never going to be PM.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    We heard this brown, then 5 years of similar stuff with miliband & now corbyn...I will believe it when I see it. So many of these labour MPs love to talk Billy big bollocks to journos but are nowhere to be seen when the coup is supposed to be going down.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,806

    If TSE is relying on a Telegraph report on the possible removal of Corbyn he is a bit desperate .

    TSE is on your side in the EU ref. So why are you being rude to him?
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    MP_SE said:

    That picture needs to be circulated round the working class Labour seats. Will go down a treat.

    Is the coat real fur?

    Ha! No chance. That'd be $80k at least on 5th Avenue.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,771
    Remains latest position on immigration seems to be it's not possible to reduce it so you'll all just have to accept it.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/13/brexit-will-not-mean-big-drop-in-immigration-hilary-benn-says
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Corbyn should have bitten his tongue, run a strong IN campaign, and brought the party together. After all, many OUTers are among his biggest fans - the risk of damage was minimal. And yet, he couldn't.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,157
    SeanT said:

    Corbyn is safe after a BREXIT?? Why?

    The entire Labour movement will be in turmoil, and Corbyn will get much of the blame from the 90% of the parliamentary party that is europhile. He will be loathed and despised beyond anything we have seen so far.

    The MPs might just think - what the F, who cares about the voters: let's ditch him, t can't get any worse, the country is now a smoking pile of ruins, anyway...

    He'll be challenged at least.

    If he stays Labour could split - with the centre and centre right taking some of the europhile unions, and their money, with them.

    Brexit would be seismic for all parties.

    Agree. If the Tories split as well it could be SDPv2 time. Also some people on the left might finally cotton onto the fact that aside from being too left-wing to win the votes of Britain's conservatory-owning masses, Corbyn isn't very good at politics.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,214
    SeanT said:

    Corbyn is safe after a BREXIT?? Why?

    The entire Labour movement will be in turmoil, and Corbyn will get much of the blame from the 90% of the parliamentary party that is europhile. He will be loathed and despised beyond anything we have seen so far.

    The MPs might just think - what the F, who cares about the voters: let's ditch him, t can't get any worse, the country is now a smoking pile of ruins, anyway...

    He'll be challenged at least.

    If he stays Labour could split - with the centre and centre right taking some of the europhile unions, and their money, with them.

    Brexit would be seismic for all parties.

    He will be safe, he has mildly sceptic and Labour can hardly replace him with a europhile when the country has just voted to Leave the EU and they are not going to replace him with Skinner or Field or Stuart are they. Any coupd will be as successful as Crispin Blunt's on air resignation on the night of the 2003 local elections and the failed attempt to oust IDS then. If Leave the main story will be the ousting of Cameron
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited June 2016
    Brexit would be seismic for all parties.

    Not before time. They've both become utterly stale and treat the underclass with open contempt. The plebs need to land one back.
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    MP_SE said:

    That picture needs to be circulated round the working class Labour seats. Will go down a treat.

    Is the coat real fur?

    No doubt ethically sourced. The pelts of News International employees.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited June 2016
    If we vote Leave it won't be the Corbynistas or the Kippers that will self-combust, it will be the purveyors of 'the centre' as they come to terms with the fact that they aren't the centre.

    It's happened to Scottish Labour, it's happened to the Lib Dems, it will be the Cameroons and what's left of the Blairites next.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,220
    If we vote to leave - and do so - will Labour and Lib Dems have a promise in their 2020 manifestos to rejoin?
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    SeanT said:

    Corbyn is safe after a BREXIT?? Why?

    The entire Labour movement will be in turmoil, and Corbyn will get much of the blame from the 90% of the parliamentary party that is europhile. He will be loathed and despised beyond anything we have seen so far.

    The MPs might just think - what the F, who cares about the voters: let's ditch him, t can't get any worse, the country is now a smoking pile of ruins, anyway...

    He'll be challenged at least.

    If he stays Labour could split - with the centre and centre right taking some of the europhile unions, and their money, with them.

    Brexit would be seismic for all parties.

    Agree. If the Tories split as well it could be SDPv2 time. Also some people on the left might finally cotton onto the fact that aside from being too left-wing to win the votes of Britain's conservatory-owning masses, Corbyn isn't very good at politics.
    Never going to happen to Tories, it's not in their DNA.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,211
    edited June 2016
    nunu said:

    ICM PREDICTION poll:

    Leave 51%
    Remain 49%

    I'm going for Leave 48, Remain 52, ex DKs

    Assuming it's a phone poll, of course.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,157
    Patrick said:

    Brexit would be seismic for all parties.

    Not before time. They've both become utterly stale and treat the underclass with open contempt. The plebs need to land one back.

    I'm not sure that's what would happen, I think there would be a big centrist conspiracy to join the EEA or whatever.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667
    SeanT said:

    Corbyn is safe after a BREXIT?? Why?

    The entire Labour movement will be in turmoil, and Corbyn will get much of the blame from the 90% of the parliamentary party that is europhile. He will be loathed and despised beyond anything we have seen so far.

    The MPs might just think - what the F, who cares about the voters: let's ditch him, t can't get any worse, the country is now a smoking pile of ruins, anyway...

    He'll be challenged at least.

    If he stays Labour could split - with the centre and centre right taking some of the europhile unions, and their money, with them.

    Brexit would be seismic for all parties.

    Not if 40-50% of labour voters plus all of those who decamped to UKIP have just voted to Leave. The PLP is out of step with its voters. Corbyn is probably closer to the voters than the rest of them are.

    Anyway, if they did try and arrange a coup, what's to stop the £3 lot from signing up again and voting him back in?
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited June 2016
    tlg86 said:

    If we vote to leave - and do so - will Labour and Lib Dems have a promise in their 2020 manifestos to rejoin?


    Article 49.

    "Any European State which respects the values referred to in Article 2 and is committed to promoting them may apply to become a member of the Union. The European Parliament and national Parliaments shall be notified of this application. The applicant State shall address its application to the Council, which shall act unanimously after consulting the Commission and after receiving the assent of the European Parliament, which shall act by an absolute majority of its component members. The conditions of admission and the adjustments to the Treaties on which the Union is founded, which such admission entails, shall be the subject of an agreement between the Member States and the applicant State. This agreement shall be submitted for ratification by all the contracting States in accordance with their respective constitutional requirements. The conditions of eligibility agreed upon by the European Council shall be taken into account."

    Seems to me that Labour's best bet is to hope for Brexit, then campaign to take Britain back in under Article 49.

    On topic: Labour have made their bed, they're going to have to lie on it. They couldn't organise a coup in a Central American Banana Republic.
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    rcs1000 said:

    nunu said:

    ICM PREDICTION poll:

    Leave 51%
    Remain 49%

    I'm going for Leave 48, Remain 52, ex DKs

    Assuming it's a phone poll, of course.
    Didn't the previous ICM phone poll have Leave ahead? I think it will show little change so essentially TCTC.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,661
    MP_SE said:

    That picture needs to be circulated round the working class Labour seats. Will go down a treat.

    Is the coat real fur?

    I don't see anyone being too exercised by it. If he were sporting a flat cap, a whippet/pigeon and spoofing the WWC, perhaps.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,778
    MP_SE said:

    rcs1000 said:

    nunu said:

    ICM PREDICTION poll:

    Leave 51%
    Remain 49%

    I'm going for Leave 48, Remain 52, ex DKs

    Assuming it's a phone poll, of course.
    Didn't the previous ICM phone poll have Leave ahead? I think it will show little change so essentially TCTC.
    It was R 42, L 45 last time.
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    Are Opinium a respectable pollster? See Zerohedge is reporting Opinium just published a 'shocking' 19% lead for Leave:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/leave-takes-shocking-19-point-lead-brexit-poll-if-it-happens-gold-will-be-worlds-str
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667
    rcs1000 said:

    nunu said:

    ICM PREDICTION poll:

    Leave 51%
    Remain 49%

    I'm going for Leave 48, Remain 52, ex DKs

    Assuming it's a phone poll, of course.
    I'm going for

    Leave 53
    Remain 47

    The betting movements this morning may have been related to the ICM data, if someone had advanced knowledge of it then it would be a golden opportunity to get in Leave at 2.8-3 and watch it tumble to 2.5-2.7 when the poll is out.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,942
    edited June 2016
    Patrick said:

    Are Opinium a respectable pollster? See Zerohedge is reporting Opinium just published a 'shocking' 19% lead for Leave:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/leave-takes-shocking-19-point-lead-brexit-poll-if-it-happens-gold-will-be-worlds-str

    It was no such thing. The Express misrepresented it...
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Corbyn should have bitten his tongue, run a strong IN campaign, and brought the party together. After all, many OUTers are among his biggest fans - the risk of damage was minimal. And yet, he couldn't.

    There are 20 years of Cornyn’s comments on the European Union to quote back at him.

    Corbyn’s strength is that he is authentic.

    To turn him into a Europhile would have damaged his credibility beyond repair.

    Just another turncoat politician who says things he doesn’t mean ...
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    ConcanvasserConcanvasser Posts: 165
    Plato said- "As we near the business end of the campaign there has been an enormous rise in the number of people signing up to volunteer. As I write this, there are 709 people who have gone to the trouble of pledging their support or ability to help with campaigning in Newham. That is an increase of nearly 200 in one week in just one borough. I am told this is being repeated across London and the entire country."

    I wasn't needed on our Vote Leave stand as they were too many people wanting to do it!

    Just finished the morning delivery. Feeling very positive about the final two weeks.

    Now's the time to lend every shoulder to the wheel. If you are for Leave, please volunteer. Every leaflet delivered and door knocked takes us one step nearer to getting our country back.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    SeanT said:

    Corbyn is safe after a BREXIT?? Why?

    The entire Labour movement will be in turmoil, and Corbyn will get much of the blame from the 90% of the parliamentary party that is europhile. He will be loathed and despised beyond anything we have seen so far.

    The MPs might just think - what the F, who cares about the voters: let's ditch him, t can't get any worse, the country is now a smoking pile of ruins, anyway...

    He'll be challenged at least.

    If he stays Labour could split - with the centre and centre right taking some of the europhile unions, and their money, with them.

    Brexit would be seismic for all parties.

    To get a new leader the Labour membership has to vote for him/her. Whoever that person is will have to put in a great deal of groundwork first. It's not happening yet. That may be what begins after Brexit, but it will still take some time to build up the necessary support base. It will be a slow boiler, rather than a quick fry - and a lot will depend on what happens to the Tories.

    Unfortunately, FPTP mitigates against a split - as does the loyalty that Labour MPs feel to the party name and its history, if not the leadership.

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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    nunu said:

    ICM PREDICTION poll:

    Leave 51%
    Remain 49%

    I'm going for Leave 48, Remain 52, ex DKs

    Assuming it's a phone poll, of course.
    I'm going for

    Leave 53
    Remain 47

    The betting movements this morning may have been related to the ICM data, if someone had advanced knowledge of it then it would be a golden opportunity to get in Leave at 2.8-3 and watch it tumble to 2.5-2.7 when the poll is out.
    I'm looking at seaweed waving from my window sill.
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    madmacsmadmacs Posts: 75
    Opinium have pit out a warning about their own poll commissioned by the Bruges Group. Not validated by usual critiria

    blockquote class="Quote" rel="Patrick">Are Opinium a respectable pollster? See Zerohedge is reporting Opinium just published a 'shocking' 19% lead for Leave:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/leave-takes-shocking-19-point-lead-brexit-poll-if-it-happens-gold-will-be-worlds-str


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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,338
    Excellent article on the previous thread. I'm gloomy about Remain's prospects, but articles like that give me hope. Yes, the vast majority of posters on here are for Leave but they're all posh boys or retirees on the Sussex coast. If they were representative of the British public then the country would still be medieval. With any luck, the thinkers and the doers will make the right choice and get Remain over the line.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,214
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Corbyn is safe after a BREXIT?? Why?

    The entire Labour movement will be in turmoil, and Corbyn will get much of the blame from the 90% of the parliamentary party that is europhile. He will be loathed and despised beyond anything we have seen so far.

    The MPs might just think - what the F, who cares about the voters: let's ditch him, t can't get any worse, the country is now a smoking pile of ruins, anyway...

    He'll be challenged at least.

    If he stays Labour could split - with the centre and centre right taking some of the europhile unions, and their money, with them.

    Brexit would be seismic for all parties.

    He will be safe, he has mildly sceptic and Labour can hardly replace him with a europhile when the country has just voted to Leave the EU and they are not going to replace him with Skinner or Field or Stuart are they. Any coupd will be as successful as Crispin Blunt's on air resignation on the night of the 2003 local elections and the failed attempt to oust IDS then. If Leave the main story will be the ousting of Cameron
    i don't think you understand how passionately europhile the Labour elite have become. It is the one thing they REALLY believe in, hence their willingness to sacrifice everything at its altar.

    Corbyn will get the blame for the defeat on the Left. And with some justification, he is clearly a eurosceptic half heartedly pretending to be IN. The public senses this.

    He will be the iconoclast, the man who smashed the stained glass in the Labour cathedral. The anger and hatred will have to be vented and, at the very least, we will see a leadership challenge. Whether it works is a different matter.

    I'm also not sure what a Brexit would do to the Labour membership. Would they still support Corbyn? My guess is many of the new members are passionately europhile, too - young and idealistic and silly. It's the old Labour working classes who are tending to LEAVE.
    Who cares what the elite think they will have lost in the country and with the membership and the membership want socialism they do not care that much about the EU, certainly not enough to replace Corbyn with a Europhile Blairite
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    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    chestnut said:

    If we vote Leave it won't be the Corbynistas or the Kippers that will self-combust, it will be the purveyors of 'the centre' as they come to terms with the fact that they aren't the centre.

    It's happened to Scottish Labour, it's happened to the Lib Dems, it will be the Cameroons and what's left of the Blairites next.

    Hyperbole much!! Regardless of position on Europe, the Blairites, Cameroons, Lib Dems etc have been in power for 20 years. Don't see much appetite for left or right wing ideals from the electorate as a whole.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    SeanT said:

    Corbyn is safe after a BREXIT?? Why?

    The entire Labour movement will be in turmoil, and Corbyn will get much of the blame from the 90% of the parliamentary party that is europhile. He will be loathed and despised beyond anything we have seen so far.

    The MPs might just think - what the F, who cares about the voters: let's ditch him, t can't get any worse, the country is now a smoking pile of ruins, anyway...

    He'll be challenged at least.

    If he stays Labour could split - with the centre and centre right taking some of the europhile unions, and their money, with them.

    Brexit would be seismic for all parties.

    To get a new leader the Labour membership has to vote for him/her. Whoever that person is will have to put in a great deal of groundwork first. It's not happening yet. That may be what begins after Brexit, but it will still take some time to build up the necessary support base. It will be a slow boiler, rather than a quick fry - and a lot will depend on what happens to the Tories.

    Unfortunately, FPTP mitigates against a split - as does the loyalty that Labour MPs feel to the party name and its history, if not the leadership.

    Indeed, I think Labour plotters will want to wait and see what happens in the aftermath of Brexit, of PM Boris takes us into the EEA without any concessions on immigration or PM Gove leaves the single market which causes a downturn, or even PM Dave trying to hold on and having a hugely rebellious party behind him on the government benches.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    Apparently the Russian FSB have banned many of the worst hooligans travelling to France ...I can't see there being any problems when the world cup is held in Russia, when the hooligans have home advantage & are at full strength.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,211
    Patrick said:

    Are Opinium a respectable pollster? See Zerohedge is reporting Opinium just published a 'shocking' 19% lead for Leave:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/leave-takes-shocking-19-point-lead-brexit-poll-if-it-happens-gold-will-be-worlds-str

    Opinium are an excellent pollster. Leave has to be the 1-2 favourite, if that is (a) true, and (b) a phone poll.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    I think I live in a black hole. Reading about all this canvassing activity makes me wonder what on earth is happening around here in what I imagine is a pretty split area (Leamington Spa). No leaflets, no canvassers, not even stalls in the main shopping areas, nothing. Are we the exception here?
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    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/gordon-brown-shows-hes-learnt-nothing-run-gillian-duffy/
    "And by not answering the question, Brown is attempting to persuade voters to support ‘Remain’ without addressing the elephant in the room. Instead, the former PM suggested, migration was just an obsession of the BBC, calling it the corporation’s ‘agenda’. It seems that whilst Brown might have apologised for his run-in with Gillian Duffy, he’s learnt nothing from the encounter."
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,806
    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    Are Opinium a respectable pollster? See Zerohedge is reporting Opinium just published a 'shocking' 19% lead for Leave:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/leave-takes-shocking-19-point-lead-brexit-poll-if-it-happens-gold-will-be-worlds-str

    Opinium are an excellent pollster. Leave has to be the 1-2 favourite, if that is (a) true, and (b) a phone poll.
    Isn't that the Daily Express voodoo reporting at work again?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,211
    @Patrick: this is the poll - http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/679104/End-EU-rule-FINALLY-Leave-camp-take-19-POINT-lead-Britons-flock-Brexit

    It's Bruges Group commissioned, so I'd be a little bit cautious.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739
    PlatoSaid said:

    SeanT said:

    Corbyn is safe after a BREXIT?? Why?

    The entire Labour movement will be in turmoil, and Corbyn will get much of the blame from the 90% of the parliamentary party that is europhile. He will be loathed and despised beyond anything we have seen so far.

    The MPs might just think - what the F, who cares about the voters: let's ditch him, t can't get any worse, the country is now a smoking pile of ruins, anyway...

    He'll be challenged at least.

    If he stays Labour could split - with the centre and centre right taking some of the europhile unions, and their money, with them.

    Brexit would be seismic for all parties.

    Agree. If the Tories split as well it could be SDPv2 time. Also some people on the left might finally cotton onto the fact that aside from being too left-wing to win the votes of Britain's conservatory-owning masses, Corbyn isn't very good at politics.
    Never going to happen to Tories, it's not in their DNA.
    Yes, it used to be said that loyalty was the Tories secret weapon. That seems a few decades out of date now.
    There are many Tories whose Euroscepticism trumps (appropriately) their Conservatism.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    Plato said- "As we near the business end of the campaign there has been an enormous rise in the number of people signing up to volunteer. As I write this, there are 709 people who have gone to the trouble of pledging their support or ability to help with campaigning in Newham. That is an increase of nearly 200 in one week in just one borough. I am told this is being repeated across London and the entire country."

    I wasn't needed on our Vote Leave stand as they were too many people wanting to do it!

    Just finished the morning delivery. Feeling very positive about the final two weeks.

    Now's the time to lend every shoulder to the wheel. If you are for Leave, please volunteer. Every leaflet delivered and door knocked takes us one step nearer to getting our country back.

    It's our country too, don't forget.

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,211

    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    Are Opinium a respectable pollster? See Zerohedge is reporting Opinium just published a 'shocking' 19% lead for Leave:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/leave-takes-shocking-19-point-lead-brexit-poll-if-it-happens-gold-will-be-worlds-str

    Opinium are an excellent pollster. Leave has to be the 1-2 favourite, if that is (a) true, and (b) a phone poll.
    Isn't that the Daily Express voodoo reporting at work again?
    Yes it is.

    So I think we shouldn't read too much into it.
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    FPT

    TSE: "Looking at the demographics, Dewsbury is 77% White British and less than 20% Asian."

    Not so according to the Kirklees Census for 2011 which shows the Asian population for Dewsbury South as then being 45% of the total and for Dewsbury West as then being 49%.
    Doubtless these percentages have increased significantly in both wards over the intervening five years as a result of immigration and higher birth rates, and therefore my estimate of 60% was probably not very far off the mark.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,022
    SeanT said:

    @yxfpmsveeijci
    @GuidoFawkes ICM regretfully announce that the 12:30 #Brexit poll has been delayed due to leavers online.

    groan....
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,214
    midwinter said:

    chestnut said:

    If we vote Leave it won't be the Corbynistas or the Kippers that will self-combust, it will be the purveyors of 'the centre' as they come to terms with the fact that they aren't the centre.

    It's happened to Scottish Labour, it's happened to the Lib Dems, it will be the Cameroons and what's left of the Blairites next.

    Hyperbole much!! Regardless of position on Europe, the Blairites, Cameroons, Lib Dems etc have been in power for 20 years. Don't see much appetite for left or right wing ideals from the electorate as a whole.
    If Leave it will be Kipper Tories v Corbynista Labour
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    rcs1000 said:

    @Patrick: this is the poll - http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/679104/End-EU-rule-FINALLY-Leave-camp-take-19-POINT-lead-Britons-flock-Brexit

    It's Bruges Group commissioned, so I'd be a little bit cautious.

    Did they only poll UKIP members?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,214
    rcs1000 said:

    @Patrick: this is the poll - http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/679104/End-EU-rule-FINALLY-Leave-camp-take-19-POINT-lead-Britons-flock-Brexit

    It's Bruges Group commissioned, so I'd be a little bit cautious.

    It added up free trade deal backing to get Leave
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    FPT
    Barnesian said:

    I'm reading a book called "The Righteous Mind - why good people are divided by politics and religion" by Jonathan Haidt. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11324722-the-righteous-mind

    This blog is currently providing loads of examples and material to support his hypothesis (including that we are all good people, honestly divided).

    He argues, with lots of evidence, that almost all judgements, political or otherwise, are instinctive and intuitive and followed up by post-rationalisations to justify the original instinct. These post-rationalisations are often passionately argued (and sometimes can become bizarre and OTT).

    The original instinctive judgements come from a mix of six factors ((Care/Harm, Liberty/Oppression, Fairness/Cheating, Loyalty/Betrayal, Authority/Subversion, Sanctity/Degradation) that arise from evolutionary and cultural processes. Different groups of people have different mixes.

    The usual left/right disagreements are based on the left putting a lot of weight on the first three factors and the right putting weight on the last three. The euref disagreement seems to cut across the left/right divide. The drivers for Leavers seems to me to be Liberty (take control), Loyalty (to kith, kin and country), Subversion (anti-authority) and Sanctity (no mixing). The drivers for Remainers seems to be Care (avoid harm) and Authority (we know best). Leavers are all heart; remainers are all head.

    No rational argument will bridge that gap.

    On the face of it seems to make sense. I have long thought most judgements in politics are instinctual, and justified later - it's easy to prove in how many people support a policy until they find out who is behind it.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,214
    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    Are Opinium a respectable pollster? See Zerohedge is reporting Opinium just published a 'shocking' 19% lead for Leave:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/leave-takes-shocking-19-point-lead-brexit-poll-if-it-happens-gold-will-be-worlds-str

    Opinium are an excellent pollster. Leave has to be the 1-2 favourite, if that is (a) true, and (b) a phone poll.
    The weekend Opinium had Remain narrowly ahead
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    Apparently the Russian FSB have banned many of the worst hooligans travelling to France ...I can't see there being any problems when the world cup is held in Russia, when the hooligans have home advantage & are at full strength.

    As with so much else, hooliganism is something we gave to the world and have then had to watch as others became better at doing it than we are. The crucial advantage that the crafty continentals have is that they do not get lagered up first. They take it a lot more seriously. Apparently, the Russian thugs actually trained prior to their attacks.

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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Plato said- "As we near the business end of the campaign there has been an enormous rise in the number of people signing up to volunteer. As I write this, there are 709 people who have gone to the trouble of pledging their support or ability to help with campaigning in Newham. That is an increase of nearly 200 in one week in just one borough. I am told this is being repeated across London and the entire country."

    I wasn't needed on our Vote Leave stand as they were too many people wanting to do it!

    Just finished the morning delivery. Feeling very positive about the final two weeks.

    Now's the time to lend every shoulder to the wheel. If you are for Leave, please volunteer. Every leaflet delivered and door knocked takes us one step nearer to getting our country back.

    It's our country too, don't forget.

    You're trying to give it away though.
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    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    Excellent article on the previous thread. I'm gloomy about Remain's prospects, but articles like that give me hope. Yes, the vast majority of posters on here are for Leave but they're all posh boys or retirees on the Sussex coast. If they were representative of the British public then the country would still be medieval. With any luck, the thinkers and the doers will make the right choice and get Remain over the line.

    Indeed. I'm frequently astonished Remain is polling over 30 percent after reading the comments on here. Although to be fair they probably are significantly below that on the Sussex coast.
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869

    This is the new standard PB pic for all Corbyn related threads.

    I find it hard to believe it wasn't photo-shopped.

    Good afternoon, everyone.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    On topic, since Labour MPs couldn't topple an overfilled martini glass, why should we believe Corbyn overthrow plot no.273?

    Even Peter Hain said there would be no point of getting rid of him because, the ,membership love him and they would get the same result.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,048
    Pong said:
    It wasn't the fact it was Bruges Group commissioned. Opinium would not allow their name to be sullied by leading questions or being influenced by who asked for the poll.

    What destroys it is the fact that the Express reported it with no weighting or basic corrections as if it were a real poll result. It is no wonder Opinium were somewhat annoyed
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    GeoffM said:

    Plato said- "As we near the business end of the campaign there has been an enormous rise in the number of people signing up to volunteer. As I write this, there are 709 people who have gone to the trouble of pledging their support or ability to help with campaigning in Newham. That is an increase of nearly 200 in one week in just one borough. I am told this is being repeated across London and the entire country."

    I wasn't needed on our Vote Leave stand as they were too many people wanting to do it!

    Just finished the morning delivery. Feeling very positive about the final two weeks.

    Now's the time to lend every shoulder to the wheel. If you are for Leave, please volunteer. Every leaflet delivered and door knocked takes us one step nearer to getting our country back.

    It's our country too, don't forget.

    You're trying to give it away though.
    And you are trying to destroy it economically
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    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    HYUFD said:

    midwinter said:

    chestnut said:

    If we vote Leave it won't be the Corbynistas or the Kippers that will self-combust, it will be the purveyors of 'the centre' as they come to terms with the fact that they aren't the centre.

    It's happened to Scottish Labour, it's happened to the Lib Dems, it will be the Cameroons and what's left of the Blairites next.

    Hyperbole much!! Regardless of position on Europe, the Blairites, Cameroons, Lib Dems etc have been in power for 20 years. Don't see much appetite for left or right wing ideals from the electorate as a whole.
    If Leave it will be Kipper Tories v Corbynista Labour
    Rather a large vacuum for anyone sane to fill then!!!
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087

    Excellent article on the previous thread. I'm gloomy about Remain's prospects, but articles like that give me hope. Yes, the vast majority of posters on here are for Leave but they're all posh boys or retirees on the Sussex coast. If they were representative of the British public then the country would still be medieval. With any luck, the thinkers and the doers will make the right choice and get Remain over the line.

    Despite being encouraged by trending polls to Leave, I'm beginning to wonder if we might see a reversal - several people I know who hadn't previously mentioned it have started talking about the referendum, and not a one of them is for Leave, which is of course anecodtal, but their reason for bringing it up was surprise and mild alarm that the country might actually do this, might actually leave, which they regard as bonkers. Perhaps the scare stories are starting to wake people up, if such people are not uncommon.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    Richard Tyndall made an interesting point last night. Post-Brexit you can't just discount the views of Remainers. They will still represent a large part of the population. They plus a portion of the Leave vote may actually represent a majority for EEA/EFTA. As leavers constantly tell us, this is not an election. There is no Leave manifesto. All Leave means is ceasing to be an EU member state.

    I am not sure that I agree, but there is an argument to be made here and it could provide Boris with some real wriggle room once he gets negotiations underway and he comes under pressure from the City and industry.
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    ConcanvasserConcanvasser Posts: 165
    CoHome are doing a campaign diary from Remain and Leave campaigns.

    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/06/eu-referendum-campaign-diaries-week-3-shy-leavers-emerge-as-do-remain-councillors-as-the-big-decision-approaches.html

    The Remain guy, Andrew Marshall, is just brilliant. He manages to convey Remain's complacency, snobbery, and elitist' piggy snout troughery' all in the same paragraph.

    How about this for a quote "Alistair Burt MP was also with us, as was a relaxed-looking Andrew Lansley. We were on the marvellous and rather plush ConservativesIn battle bus, including a rather high-tech coffee machine. A good investment by ConservativesIn. The mood was pretty good in Cambridge, though as elsewhere with a big skew by age and (apparent) education. "

    Please give Mr Marshall a more prominent campaigning role in Remain. We need more from this man.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,380
    Patrick said:

    Are Opinium a respectable pollster? See Zerohedge is reporting Opinium just published a 'shocking' 19% lead for Leave:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/leave-takes-shocking-19-point-lead-brexit-poll-if-it-happens-gold-will-be-worlds-str

    Opinium respectable afaik, 'lying' Express not.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,048

    Excellent article on the previous thread. I'm gloomy about Remain's prospects, but articles like that give me hope. Yes, the vast majority of posters on here are for Leave but they're all posh boys or retirees on the Sussex coast. If they were representative of the British public then the country would still be medieval. With any luck, the thinkers and the doers will make the right choice and get Remain over the line.

    Excuse me. I am neither a posh boy nor a retiree. Comprehensive schooled from a working class/Lower Middle Class background who runs his own business. If anything I am a complete oik.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited June 2016

    Apparently the Russian FSB have banned many of the worst hooligans travelling to France ...I can't see there being any problems when the world cup is held in Russia, when the hooligans have home advantage & are at full strength.

    As with so much else, hooliganism is something we gave to the world and have then had to watch as others became better at doing it than we are. The crucial advantage that the crafty continentals have is that they do not get lagered up first. They take it a lot more seriously. Apparently, the Russian thugs actually trained prior to their attacks.

    Not just not getting largered up...just like when English teams were excluded from European competitions and the continental teams advanced why English teams didn't because of lack of exposure / practice...British hooligans these days aren't getting their weekly fixtures to stay in shape as well as fallen behind the curve especially compared to Eastern Europe. I think the Poles will give the Russian a good run for their money.

    On a more serious note, seeing the videos flooding the internet that is absolutely clear. I think the worrying thing for everybody is the willingness to go after anybody and everybody. There are a number of videos of people well away from the front line of the battle quietly having a drink getting being attacked and don't look like the sort of people who "want some".

    Traditionally hooliganism was between two sets of knuckle draggers who organized fights between those that wanted to step off and test who the hardest.
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    Patrick said:

    Brexit would be seismic for all parties.

    Not before time. They've both become utterly stale and treat the underclass with open contempt. The plebs need to land one back.

    *claps*
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,211

    Excellent article on the previous thread. I'm gloomy about Remain's prospects, but articles like that give me hope. Yes, the vast majority of posters on here are for Leave but they're all posh boys or retirees on the Sussex coast. If they were representative of the British public then the country would still be medieval. With any luck, the thinkers and the doers will make the right choice and get Remain over the line.

    Excuse me. I am neither a posh boy nor a retiree. Comprehensive schooled from a working class/Lower Middle Class background who runs his own business. If anything I am a complete oik.
    As far as I'm concerned, if you're not an ex-homeless heroin addict, then - frankly - you're a toff.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,070

    Apparently the Russian FSB have banned many of the worst hooligans travelling to France ...I can't see there being any problems when the world cup is held in Russia, when the hooligans have home advantage & are at full strength.

    As with so much else, hooliganism is something we gave to the world and have then had to watch as others became better at doing it than we are. The crucial advantage that the crafty continentals have is that they do not get lagered up first. They take it a lot more seriously. Apparently, the Russian thugs actually trained prior to their attacks.

    Apparently the Russian FSB have banned many of the worst hooligans travelling to France ...I can't see there being any problems when the world cup is held in Russia, when the hooligans have home advantage & are at full strength.

    As with so much else, hooliganism is something we gave to the world and have then had to watch as others became better at doing it than we are. The crucial advantage that the crafty continentals have is that they do not get lagered up first. They take it a lot more seriously. Apparently, the Russian thugs actually trained prior to their attacks.

    I suppose our soft power has it's dark side. Not everything we give to the world has been good. As for drinking first and not training - more proof of what a bunch of amateurs we are. But there's something to be said for amateurism in politics, it does at least prevent over-reactions at bad times.
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    If anything REMAIN's odds have shortened a tad over the past couple of hours.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    SeanT said:

    @yxfpmsveeijci
    @GuidoFawkes ICM regretfully announce that the 12:30 #Brexit poll has been delayed due to leavers online.

    Sorry but what does that mean? I thought ICM did phone polls...
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,380
    SeanT said:

    Wow.

    Betdaq have LEAVE at 6/4

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result

    I've no idea who Betdaq are or is, but those are the tightest LEAVE odds yet, I believe.

    They're a diddy version of Betfair, often liquidity problems in their markets.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,545

    I think I live in a black hole. Reading about all this canvassing activity makes me wonder what on earth is happening around here in what I imagine is a pretty split area (Leamington Spa). No leaflets, no canvassers, not even stalls in the main shopping areas, nothing. Are we the exception here?

    So far, in Sale, over the last eight weeks, I've seen:
    one stall in the main shopping street (leave)
    One poster (Remain)
    Two leaflets through our door (Leave)
    No canvassers

    It's all a lot less than for the general election, even in a fairly safe seat which was never likely to influence the result, there was 4-5 times as much campaigning as there has been for the referendum.
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    JunglelandJungleland Posts: 40
    SeanT said:

    Wow.

    Betdaq have LEAVE at 6/4

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result

    I've no idea who Betdaq are or is, but those are the tightest LEAVE odds yet, I believe.

    Betting Exchange like betfair. Low liquidity with only 98k matched on the market compared to betfairs 25.6 million hence why oddschecker scraped the 6/4.
This discussion has been closed.