We seem to have every other number other than the most important ones?
They haven't asked that one.
Since personal prosperity is better with REMAIN, it will always win. No need to change the 58 - 42 prediction. DKs will heavily fall in line with REMAIN.
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
Absolutley. Look at Switzerland. Basket case. Poverty stricken.
I think the noise being made by Leave is creating shy Remainers, just as happened in Scotland. At an IN street stall today got told by some of the public they were nervous to say they were voting IN becaus of the attitude of those who are voting OUT who can be quite aggressive and overwhelming.
Undoubtedly. Leavers can be highly excitable with large levels of certitude. If you say the wrong thing to them (i.e. something positive about EU membership) they're liable to explode. Even I, a proud European, sometimes keep my council. You just don't know how they're going to react. Fortunately, all this will be played out in the calm sanctuary of the polling booths. Reason and good sense will surely prevail.
ABs are more likely to be wrong in understanding the net position on the UK's EU budget contribution than DE's.
How interesting. Does that include how much we pay or our relative contributions?
They think we get more back from the EU than we contribute in taxes.
It tends to be the young and people from the regions most likely to be subsidised.
I have had several personal conversations with people who actually believe that EU funds are from the EU rather than UK taxes handed back with an EU badge stuck on them.
We seem to have every other number other than the most important ones?
They haven't asked that one.
Since personal prosperity is better with REMAIN, it will always win. No need to change the 58 - 42 prediction. DKs will heavily fall in line with REMAIN.
You're misreading the numbers.
33% think they will be worse off. That means 67% don't.
By your weird logic, since 29% say they will be better off if Brexit takes place, 71% obviously thinks the opposite surely
This clearly shows the post GE polling "adjustments" have gone awry. We know the position now is about equal according to whichever NEV you care to look at.
Another point: It has pointed out with some justification that Labour piles on votes where it does not need and not where it does need them.
The 1% lead in LE 2016 has been analysed further. The swing to Labour since GE2015 has been:
South 3.2%, Midlands, 2% , North -1%.
Or that people who vote in cities are not representative of the people who vote nationwide.
We seem to have every other number other than the most important ones?
They haven't asked that one.
Since personal prosperity is better with REMAIN, it will always win. No need to change the 58 - 42 prediction. DKs will heavily fall in line with REMAIN.
Remain's lead is very small on the economy, only 4 points. All the other issues favour Leave now.
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
If you want progress, consider how irrelevant the EU will be in 50 years with booming Asia. India and China will become the new pace setters of the world, and will set the tone for much that happens in the world, in much the same way as the US has for the last century. Combine this with the increase in the security threat, and the realisation that massive migration is a fact of life and will never stop, and the next twenty years (if that) is going to be the high watermark for liberal western values.
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
Absolutley. Look at Switzerland. Basket case. Poverty stricken.
Damn, you're right. With that, and WAR!!! I'm leaning back towards Remain.
I think the noise being made by Leave is creating shy Remainers, just as happened in Scotland. At an IN street stall today got told by some of the public they were nervous to say they were voting IN becaus of the attitude of those who are voting OUT who can be quite aggressive and overwhelming.
I distinctly detect the sound of some whistling to keep up their spirits
The fact that remainers posts are being responded to like this speaks volumes about where we are.
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
If you want progress, consider how irrelevant the EU will be in 50 years with booming Asia. India and China will become the new pace setters of the world, and will set the tone for much that happens in the world, in much the same way as the US has for the last century. Combine this with the increase in the security threat, and the realisation that massive migration is a fact of life and will never stop, and the next twenty years (if that) is going to be the high watermark for liberal western values.
Alternatively, either or both could go the way of Japan.
ABs are more likely to be wrong in understanding the net position on the UK's EU budget contribution than DE's.
How interesting. Does that include how much we pay or our relative contributions?
They think we get more back from the EU than we contribute in taxes.
It tends to be the young and people from the regions most likely to be subsidised.
I have had several personal conversations with people who actually believe that EU funds are from the EU rather than UK taxes handed back with an EU badge stuck on them.
Has always amused me that Piers Gaveston has caused both Boris Johnson and David Cameron so much grief.
The fact that they should belong to a society named in honour of the supposed homosexual lover of King Edward II has put them up in my estimation. According to wiki the society's motto is '(Sane) non memini ne audisse unum alterum ita dilixisse' which roughly translates as 'Truly, none remember hearing of a man enjoying another so much'
Neither of them were members, my friends who attended Oxford say the Ashcroft story was bollocks, there was no way you could be concurrently members of The Piers Gaveston Society and the Bullingdon Club.
Perhaps it suits Cameron to have people believe he was a member of Piers Gaveston what with his gay marriage supporting, occasionally metrosexual image
David Cameron voted to retain section 28.
The Bullingdon story came out the moment he ran to be Tory Leader, if he was a member of the Piers Gaveston, that too would have come out pretty sharpish, not a decade later.
Maybe PG have a kind of 'Don't ask don't tell' approach to secrecy.
This clearly shows the post GE polling "adjustments" have gone awry. We know the position now is about equal according to whichever NEV you care to look at.
Another point: It has pointed out with some justification that Labour piles on votes where it does not need and not where it does need them.
The 1% lead in LE 2016 has been analysed further. The swing to Labour since GE2015 has been:
South 3.2%, Midlands, 2% , North -1%.
Labour got 31% in the locals, basically what it got last May, the main swing was Tory to LD but as tonight's Comres shows voters may now vote LD again locally they will not nationally, in fact the biggest gainers nationally are UKIP
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
Absolutley. Look at Switzerland. Basket case. Poverty stricken.
We seem to have every other number other than the most important ones?
They haven't asked that one.
Since personal prosperity is better with REMAIN, it will always win. No need to change the 58 - 42 prediction. DKs will heavily fall in line with REMAIN.
Remain's lead is very small on the economy, only 4 points. All the other issues favour Leave now.
Not much point having a bigger economy if excessive migration means you get a much smaller slice of a slightly larger cake.
We seem to have every other number other than the most important ones?
They haven't asked that one.
Since personal prosperity is better with REMAIN, it will always win. No need to change the 58 - 42 prediction. DKs will heavily fall in line with REMAIN.
You're misreading the numbers.
33% think they will be worse off. That means 67% don't.
By your weird logic, since 29% say they will be better off if Brexit takes place, 71% obviously thinks the opposite surely
Your argument is that people will vote Remain because they believe they will be worse off, if I am understanding it correctly.
Two in three people don't accept that presently.
For a great many people, the EU is a bit meh when it comes to how it will impact on them personally. If it doesn't matter, it won't influence their vote.
I wonder what all the new arrivals in Sweden, Greece and Germany are making of Eurovision
EDIT - and it's being shown in the USA for the first time!
I have a couple of quid on Ukraine. Although looks like Au is causing the stir.
Belgium's entry sounds like a kluge of half a dozen pop tunes mashed together by Nile Rodgers. I rather liked it.
I would love a non-european country to win eurovision, just to prove that european song makers are so crap that europeans themselves would prefer someone from the other side of the world rather than their own.
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
Because principles quite a lot; and the EU doesn't have any?
Oh, and no one who called the people he disagrees with by the dismissive 'these people' has ever had much electoral success...
Equally, the people who hate immigrants such as the BNP or UKIP have hardly won hundreds of parliamentary seats either?!
I see principles don't have much resonance with you? It's all about money, and not liking 'these people', right?
The people I refer to when I refer to "these people" are people like the chap I met on holiday who was an immigrant in Spain complaining about immigrants to the UK. I think it a bit rich to complain about immigration when you are an immigrant yourself! I didn't say whether I liked the type of people I referred to just that I thought their attitude was odd.
Yes, I am interested in my finances and how the result will affect them. I am not a politician and will never be one, so I am not interested in the vagaries of how much power the UK government has over the UK. Ultimately the power to declare war and such like has never been affected by the EU. So what is the problem?
I wonder what all the new arrivals in Sweden, Greece and Germany are making of Eurovision
EDIT - and it's being shown in the USA for the first time!
I have a couple of quid on Ukraine. Although looks like Au is causing the stir.
Belgium's entry sounds like a kluge of half a dozen pop tunes mashed together by Nile Rodgers. I rather liked it.
I would love a non-european country to win eurovizion, just to prove that european song makers are so crap that europeans themselves would prefer someone from the other side of the world rather than their own.
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
If you want progress, consider how irrelevant the EU will be in 50 years with booming Asia. India and China will become the new pace setters of the world, and will set the tone for much that happens in the world, in much the same way as the US has for the last century. Combine this with the increase in the security threat, and the realisation that massive migration is a fact of life and will never stop, and the next twenty years (if that) is going to be the high watermark for liberal western values.
Alternatively, either or both could go the way of Japan.
But you aren't putting much money on that happening are you ?
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
I'm afraid you may have a point there. Quite a few Leavers are happy to forfeit a small proportion of their vast wealth if it brings about the amusing prospect of Brexit. Unfortunately, the rest of us don't have that luxury. The wealthy can always insulate themselves from the havoc that they wreak, but it will be the less affluent who will suffer the consequences of Leave's splendid isolation.
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
I'm afraid you may have a point there. Quite a few Leavers are happy to forfeit a small proportion of their vast wealth if it brings about the amusing prospect of Brexit. Unfortunately, the rest of us don't have that luxury. The wealthy can always insulate themselves from the havoc that they wreak, but it will be the less affluent who will suffer the consequences of Leave's splendid isolation.
and yet we are told that more Leave voters are C1C2DE, not the rich who are voting Remain. So the poor want to leave the EU, seems to be a slight hole in your thesis.
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
You're the one who thinks a few quid one way or the other should determine how we should vote in this Referendum. If that's the best that Remain can manage, they're sunk.
This is the choice in a nutshell. Which way will people fall? As a gloomy remainer, I think migration will trump.
Yep, I've always thought Leave would win on the back of immigration. If the government tells you there are too many immigrants, they are ruining public services, scrounging benefits and driving down wages you are going to believe them. Dave can't turn round now and say that actually it isn't true, so he's going to lose.
As I said, Dave can't resist sticking too many eggs into his "Immigrant delight" pudding.
I think REMAIN can win if the Labour Party came out flat out for REMAIN. 75% of 30% = 22.5%.
Plus Tories' 45% of 37% = 16.6%, LD's 75% of 8% = 6%. 60% of the rest [ excl. UKIP ] 60% of 12% = 7.2%.
All these fractions add up to : 22.5% + 16.6% + 6% + 7.2% = 52.3%. I am assuming 100% of the fruitcakes [ 13% ] will vote to LEAVE [ even though that never happens ]
The point REMAINS that REMAIN cannot win without Labour voters. Those Labour voters [ mostly ex ] who will vote to LEAVE have already decamped to UKIP and the SNP. That is why I am assuming only 60% in Scotland, Wales and NI.
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
I'm afraid you may have a point there. Quite a few Leavers are happy to forfeit a small proportion of their vast wealth if it brings about the amusing prospect of Brexit. Unfortunately, the rest of us don't have that luxury. The wealthy can always insulate themselves from the havoc that they wreak, but it will be the less affluent who will suffer the consequences of Leave's splendid isolation.
1. It's mostly the less well off that will vote for Brexit not the ABs.
2. They do genuinely feel immigration is keeping down their wages.
3. Leavers are not "little Englanders" Remainers are Little Europeans. There will be no splendid isolation.
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
You're the one who thinks a few quid one way or the other should determine how we should vote in this Referendum. If that's the best that Remain can manage, they're sunk.
When was the last time people voted to be poorer? Genuine question.
As an aside, there is a story doing the rounds that might affect Boris Johnson's leadership ambitions that cannot be posted on the site.
Is it worse than a pig? Seriously?
Or having an affair or two or whatever? Scandals bounce of Boris - I was chuckling to myself earlier about his tax returns. That blew Ken right out of the water. We all sat round and gawped at how much tax he paid on PAYE.
This clearly shows the post GE polling "adjustments" have gone awry. We know the position now is about equal according to whichever NEV you care to look at.
Another point: It has pointed out with some justification that Labour piles on votes where it does not need and not where it does need them.
The 1% lead in LE 2016 has been analysed further. The swing to Labour since GE2015 has been:
South 3.2%, Midlands, 2% , North -1%.
Labour got 31% in the locals, basically what it got last May, the main swing was Tory to LD but as tonight's Comres shows voters may now vote LD again locally they will not nationally, in fact the biggest gainers nationally are UKIP
Rallings & Thrasher put Labour at 33% in the Local Elections - 1% ahead of the Tories. Comres Online has consistently been the most favourable pollster for the Tories since May 2015.
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
I'm afraid you may have a point there. Quite a few Leavers are happy to forfeit a small proportion of their vast wealth if it brings about the amusing prospect of Brexit. Unfortunately, the rest of us don't have that luxury. The wealthy can always insulate themselves from the havoc that they wreak, but it will be the less affluent who will suffer the consequences of Leave's splendid isolation.
Most Leave voters aren't especially wealthy. What's weird about so much of the Remain campaign is the way that they think that important questions of governance are trumped by small shifts in income.
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress.
No no no.
It's (in your terms) the poor that want to stop the march of progress. The polls tell us that its the CDE voters that are largely leavers. The typical kipper is said to be the uneducated, left behind type, living in a decaying seaside town. So those who have the least value their sovereignty and statehood more than the mobile affluent voters who will be voting Remain.
Apart from those minor details, you are right on the money
This is the choice in a nutshell. Which way will people fall? As a gloomy remainer, I think migration will trump.
Yep, I've always thought Leave would win on the back of immigration. If the government tells you there are too many immigrants, they are ruining public services, scrounging benefits and driving down wages you are going to believe them. Dave can't turn round now and say that actually it isn't true, so he's going to lose.
As I said, Dave can't resist sticking too many eggs into his "Immigrant delight" pudding.
I think REMAIN can win if the Labour Party came out flat out for REMAIN. 75% of 30% = 22.5%.
Plus Tories' 45% of 37% = 16.6%, LD's 75% of 8% = 6%. 60% of the rest [ excl. UKIP ] 60% of 12% = 7.2%.
All these fractions add up to : 22.5% + 16.6% + 6% + 7.2% = 52.3%. I am assuming 100% of the fruitcakes [ 13% ] will vote to LEAVE [ even though that never happens ]
The point REMAINS that REMAIN cannot win without Labour voters. Those Labour voters [ mostly ex ] who will vote to LEAVE have already decamped to UKIP and the SNP. That is why I am assuming only 60% in Scotland, Wales and NI.
Well I haven't, but:
"Those Labour voters [ mostly ex ] who will vote to LEAVE have already decamped to UKIP and the SNP "
I went to a social event here today in Italy..met seven Brits..they had never met me nor any of the others..from all walks of life..including a Dentist,,.his assistant...a retired fella and his wife from Norfolk A Japanese woman who has lived in the UK all of her life..and two students studying in Florence..They will all be voting to leave.
Azerbaijan the best by a million miles so far IMO.
I want the EU to keep expanding until the Eurovision is called the EUvision. That will include Australia. I see no problem as we already include French Guiana.
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
I'm afraid you may have a point there. Quite a few Leavers are happy to forfeit a small proportion of their vast wealth if it brings about the amusing prospect of Brexit. Unfortunately, the rest of us don't have that luxury. The wealthy can always insulate themselves from the havoc that they wreak, but it will be the less affluent who will suffer the consequences of Leave's splendid isolation.
Most Leave voters aren't especially wealthy. What's weird about so much of the Remain campaign is the way that they think that important questions of governance are trumped by small shifts in income.
It's particularly daft that Remain have failed to recognise that older people, often outright homeowners and pensioners, are the most ardent Leavers.
They can't be pressured on interest rates, currencies, jobs.
Is Cameron, a Conservative PM, actually going to threaten pensioners' pensions and then spend £25bn on overseas aid and the EU?
I wonder what all the new arrivals in Sweden, Greece and Germany are making of Eurovision
EDIT - and it's being shown in the USA for the first time!
I have a couple of quid on Ukraine. Although looks like Au is causing the stir.
Belgium's entry sounds like a kluge of half a dozen pop tunes mashed together by Nile Rodgers. I rather liked it.
I would love a non-european country to win eurovision, just to prove that european song makers are so crap that europeans themselves would prefer someone from the other side of the world rather than their own.
Israel has won. Was this a skin color related post?
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
Absolutley. Look at Switzerland. Basket case. Poverty stricken.
But Switzerland is a member of EFTA and is in the Schengen Area, so that won't be us. Phew! The Albania model is what Leave have promised us. Yippee!
Azerbaijan the best by a million miles so far IMO.
I want the EU to keep expanding until the Eurovision is called the EUvision. That will include Australia. I see no problem as we already include French Guiana.
French Guiana is an integral part of France, innit!
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
You're the one who thinks a few quid one way or the other should determine how we should vote in this Referendum. If that's the best that Remain can manage, they're sunk.
I am on a fixed income, if the economy has a shock and another recession the austerity will again hit people like me. You mentioned £100. If I was rich then maybe sovereignty would be of greater importance but as it has already been transferred with little direct effect I don't care. I would rather maintain my living standards than try to stop the march of progress or giving some deluded idiot more power to make life worse for us in the UK. Things that have come from the EU like maximum working weeks, health and safety are good for people in the main unless you are some rich manager trying to screw as much from your workforce for as little cost.
If Asia becomes the dominant economic pole in the world, why is not being in the EU going to help us as we are located in the north east Atlantic! I simply do not understand the stagnant argument that the UK can change its trade from Europe to Asia, Africa or south America. If companies are that good in the UK, why do they not do that already? Does a city like London really benefit from having a share of services in a stagnant market, something rather than nothing of an imaginary market that Brexit supporters keep proposing.
I notice on betfair that Australia is second favourite. It may be a stupid question, but why are they are allowed to compete because they are not on Europe or even near.
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
You're the one who thinks a few quid one way or the other should determine how we should vote in this Referendum. If that's the best that Remain can manage, they're sunk.
When was the last time people voted to be poorer? Genuine question.
It doesn't arise in this case. The choice is between being wealthier or being wealthier.
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
I'm afraid you may have a point there. Quite a few Leavers are happy to forfeit a small proportion of their vast wealth if it brings about the amusing prospect of Brexit. Unfortunately, the rest of us don't have that luxury. The wealthy can always insulate themselves from the havoc that they wreak, but it will be the less affluent who will suffer the consequences of Leave's splendid isolation.
Most Leave voters aren't especially wealthy. What's weird about so much of the Remain campaign is the way that they think that important questions of governance are trumped by small shifts in income.
It's particularly daft that Remain have failed to recognise that older people, often outright homeowners and pensioners, are the most ardent Leavers.
They can't be pressured on interest rates, currencies, jobs.
Is Cameron, a Conservative PM, actually going to threaten pensioners' pensions and then spend £25bn on overseas aid and the EU?
Cameron said today that voting to leave is voting for recession. I wouldn't be surprised to hear a veiled threat to cut the state pension in the event of a leave vote.
This is the choice in a nutshell. Which way will people fall? As a gloomy remainer, I think migration will trump.
Yep, I've always thought Leave would win on the back of immigration. If the government tells you there are too many immigrants, they are ruining public services, scrounging benefits and driving down wages you are going to believe them. Dave can't turn round now and say that actually it isn't true, so he's going to lose.
As I said, Dave can't resist sticking too many eggs into his "Immigrant delight" pudding.
I think REMAIN can win if the Labour Party came out flat out for REMAIN. 75% of 30% = 22.5%.
Plus Tories' 45% of 37% = 16.6%, LD's 75% of 8% = 6%. 60% of the rest [ excl. UKIP ] 60% of 12% = 7.2%.
All these fractions add up to : 22.5% + 16.6% + 6% + 7.2% = 52.3%. I am assuming 100% of the fruitcakes [ 13% ] will vote to LEAVE [ even though that never happens ]
The point REMAINS that REMAIN cannot win without Labour voters. Those Labour voters [ mostly ex ] who will vote to LEAVE have already decamped to UKIP and the SNP. That is why I am assuming only 60% in Scotland, Wales and NI.
Well I haven't, but:
"Those Labour voters [ mostly ex ] who will vote to LEAVE have already decamped to UKIP and the SNP "
The SNP ?
Yes. Most Central and Western belt Labour voters who moved over to the SNP will actually vote to LEAVE. That is why the Scottish element to vote REMAIN has been changed from 70% to 60%. The bonus is in NI where , I think, 60% voting to remain is an understatement.
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
You're the one who thinks a few quid one way or the other should determine how we should vote in this Referendum. If that's the best that Remain can manage, they're sunk.
I am on a fixed income, if the economy has a shock and another recession the austerity will again hit people like me. You mentioned £100. If I was rich then maybe sovereignty would be of greater importance but as it has already been transferred with little direct effect I don't care. I would rather maintain my living standards than try to stop the march of progress or giving some deluded idiot more power to make life worse for us in the UK. Things that have come from the EU like maximum working weeks, health and safety are good for people in the main unless you are some rich manager trying to screw as much from your workforce for as little cost.
If Asia becomes the dominant economic pole in the world, why is not being in the EU going to help us as we are located in the north east Atlantic! I simply do not understand the stagnant argument that the UK can change its trade from Europe to Asia, Africa or south America. If companies are that good in the UK, why do they not do that already? Does a city like London really benefit from having a share of services in a stagnant market, something rather than nothing of an imaginary market that Brexit supporters keep proposing.
Get a job or retrain. Don't expect me to regard your fixed income as my priority.
I notice on betfair that Australia is second favourite. It may be a stupid question, but why are they are allowed to compete because they are not on Europe or even near.
Lots of Aussie viewers and rich Aussie broadcasters
Interestingly, If the UK opts for Brexit it may mean that a recession in the UK causes the economy to be surpassed by the French economy. So, goodbye 5th largest economy if Brexit occurs! I just cannot understand why Rich people want to be poor for the sake of sovereignty? Funny things these out types. Just like the chap I spoke to on holiday where he was an Immigrant from the UK living in Spain and all he wanted to do was talk about the immigrants that lived in his own town. These people just don't see the stupidity in their outlook.
I guess there are some of us for whom being £100 richer or poorer isn't of great importance. Shocking, I know.
Where do you get the figure of £100 from, just out of interest?
Money might not mean much to you or many of the rich people who seem to want to stop the march of progress. But humanity has transitioned from smaller communities to larger ones throughout the evolution of the human race. The technology and potential for productivity gains in the future lies in singularity not individuality in terms of government. You may not like it but it is going to happen with or without us. I would rather be richer with less control, than poorer with no control.
You're the one who thinks a few quid one way or the other should determine how we should vote in this Referendum. If that's the best that Remain can manage, they're sunk.
in the main unless you are some rich manager trying to screw as much from your workforce for as little cost.
If Asia becomes the dominant economic pole in the world, why is not being in the EU going to help us as we are located in the north east Atlantic! I simply do not understand the stagnant argument that the UK can change its trade from Europe to Asia, Africa or south America. If companies are that good in the UK, why do they not do that already? Does a city like London really benefit from having a share of services in a stagnant market, something rather than nothing of an imaginary market that Brexit supporters keep proposing.
Because we currently have trade barriers with those countries. Trade barriers we could remove through negotiating our own deals without being held up by things like Romanian visas.
This is the choice in a nutshell. Which way will people fall? As a gloomy remainer, I think migration will trump.
Yep, I've always thought Leave would win on the back of immigration. If the government tells you there are too many immigrants, they are ruining public services, scrounging benefits and driving down wages you are going to believe them. Dave can't turn round now and say that actually it isn't true, so he's going to lose.
As I said, Dave can't resist sticking too many eggs into his "Immigrant delight" pudding.
I think REMAIN can win if the Labour Party came out flat out for REMAIN. 75% of 30% = 22.5%.
Plus Tories' 45% of 37% = 16.6%, LD's 75% of 8% = 6%. 60% of the rest [ excl. UKIP ] 60% of 12% = 7.2%.
All these fractions add up to : 22.5% + 16.6% + 6% + 7.2% = 52.3%. I am assuming 100% of the fruitcakes [ 13% ] will vote to LEAVE [ even though that never happens ]
The point REMAINS that REMAIN cannot win without Labour voters. Those Labour voters [ mostly ex ] who will vote to LEAVE have already decamped to UKIP and the SNP. That is why I am assuming only 60% in Scotland, Wales and NI.
Labour are almost all for Remain already. They gave up the automatic right to be listened too when they elected Corbo leader.
Comments
Don't Know = Don't care.
It tends to be the young and people from the regions most likely to be subsidised.
I have had several personal conversations with people who actually believe that EU funds are from the EU rather than UK taxes handed back with an EU badge stuck on them.
All the other issues favour Leave now.
Next up - The Martians are Coming!?!
Pirates ?
Are they at least from the Caribbean ?
So far as I can tell she is not Consultant. She may well be a Speciality Doctor rather than Consultant. It is a permenant non-training grade post
Two in three people don't accept that presently.
For a great many people, the EU is a bit meh when it comes to how it will impact on them personally. If it doesn't matter, it won't influence their vote.
Yes, I am interested in my finances and how the result will affect them. I am not a politician and will never be one, so I am not interested in the vagaries of how much power the UK government has over the UK. Ultimately the power to declare war and such like has never been affected by the EU. So what is the problem?
' a narrative is starting to which could destroy the favourite's leadership ambitions'
is still up.
This poll would seem to disagree with that contention, to put it mildly.
Plus Tories' 45% of 37% = 16.6%, LD's 75% of 8% = 6%. 60% of the rest [ excl. UKIP ] 60% of 12% = 7.2%.
All these fractions add up to : 22.5% + 16.6% + 6% + 7.2% = 52.3%. I am assuming 100% of the fruitcakes [ 13% ] will vote to LEAVE [ even though that never happens ]
The point REMAINS that REMAIN cannot win without Labour voters. Those Labour voters [ mostly ex ] who will vote to LEAVE have already decamped to UKIP and the SNP. That is why I am assuming only 60% in Scotland, Wales and NI.
https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/731563943546785792
2. They do genuinely feel immigration is keeping down their wages.
3. Leavers are not "little Englanders" Remainers are Little Europeans. There will be no splendid isolation.
4. Leaving the EU will not actually reduce household incomes. See http://aconservatives.blogspot.com/2016/04/osbornes-accountancy-is-very-creative.html
It's (in your terms) the poor that want to stop the march of progress. The polls tell us that its the CDE voters that are largely leavers. The typical kipper is said to be the uneducated, left behind type, living in a decaying seaside town. So those who have the least value their sovereignty and statehood more than the mobile affluent voters who will be voting Remain.
Apart from those minor details, you are right on the money
"Those Labour voters [ mostly ex ] who will vote to LEAVE have already decamped to UKIP and the SNP "
The SNP ?
Us Brexiteers will become pirates and rule the waves again. Wooden legs and parrots will become fashionable.
They can't be pressured on interest rates, currencies, jobs.
Is Cameron, a Conservative PM, actually going to threaten pensioners' pensions and then spend £25bn on overseas aid and the EU?
Like the tune though
Love it even more
If Asia becomes the dominant economic pole in the world, why is not being in the EU going to help us as we are located in the north east Atlantic! I simply do not understand the stagnant argument that the UK can change its trade from Europe to Asia, Africa or south America. If companies are that good in the UK, why do they not do that already? Does a city like London really benefit from having a share of services in a stagnant market, something rather than nothing of an imaginary market that Brexit supporters keep proposing.
That Bulgarian can migrate my way anytime ;-)
*Innocent Face*
Bulgaria is my favourite so far despite the earrings. Sweden is rather catchy, a natural clapalong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0gqn2F_Uu4