I wonder if the idiots have drilled into the concrete support beams to plant the charges?
Whoops! If it were scheduled for demolition, they were obviously trying to weaken it and someone either messed up the calculations or took out the wrong beam. Hope no-one got seriously hurt, although sadly reports are coming out suggesting one fatality and several injuries.
Cameron is an absolute sh*t. People voted for a referendum, a free f*cking vote and that c*nt Cameron now thinks he owns us. How dare he treat the blonde bombshell like he did. What a c*nt. Hope Leavers actually vote and stuff the effing liberal elite across UK and Europe.
And, if I recall correctly, you are a loyal and hard-working Tory activist.
Cameron needs to remember that he's just the tenant, not the owner of the Tory party
Cameron's busy trashing the joint.
You only have to look at recent threads and the number of party supporters who have suggested that in the absence of sensible alternative they'll vote Tory but through gritted teeth, to realise that there's a problem.
Mr. Nabavi, I think most would accept leaving the EU would involve short-term turbulence and, likely, economic pain.
But the world won't end in two years. We should make a decision based on the long-term interests of the UK. In the long-term, self-governance is better than perpetual erosion of our sovereignty. We're at risk of becoming as Constantinople was to the rival powers of Genoa and Venice.
Be bloody exciting though! A good time to be involved....
Fun for the affluent for whom this is a game. Less so for the poor who would suffer from the turbulence.
That sounds exactly like the relative effects the mass immigration of the last decade has had.
An increase in interest rates would make their life worse, not better.
An increase in interest rates is good for savers and those who want to buy a house.
Or don't such people matter to you ?
I am currently selling my flat and attempting to buy a bigger one. An interest rate rise directly impacts the size of mortgage I can get. And not in a good way.
However, why don't you leave[1] it up to the people. Tell them about the possibility of interest rate rises in a Brexit. Let them decide if it's in their best interest or not.
Cameron is an absolute sh*t. People voted for a referendum, a free f*cking vote and that c*nt Cameron now thinks he owns us. How dare he treat the blonde bombshell like he did. What a c*nt. Hope Leavers actually vote and stuff the effing liberal elite across UK and Europe.
Cameron has set a date for the referendum and allowed ministers to campaign on either side.
He took the mickey out of BoJo for promoting the ridiculous idea that voting Leave would bring a better deal and another chance to stay in. Lots of people think that is daft.
But I see this is going to be a civil debate in the Tory party! Indeed they seem to be going down the SLAB route of splitting the elected members from the grassroots.
Popcorn time!
Except the split of elected members matches the grassroots.
Ask Toyota. They made the threat in 2000 and then failed to act on it. Hence hollow.
Or it turned out differently from what they honestly expected.
You don't seem to be able to get your head around the idea that people who disagree with you might be honest.
No what I am saying is that if they keep making these threats and then not acting on them why should anyone believe them when they say the same thing once again.
This is an argument you can't win. Every time a company says they will pull out the first thing we will do is find out what their position was on the Euro and what statements they have made about the EU in the past. Wonderful thing the internet. It shoots down these wild claims in a way we would have found very difficult a couple of decades ago.
No just trash the message by pointing out they have said it all before and done nothing about it. No one is impressed by companies when they cry wolf like this.
I'm not so sure about that. People are going to hear the same message over and over again. They'll probably discount a lot of it as scaremongering and exaggeration, of course.
But the Remain side don't need to prove their case. They just need to sow doubt.
And they are being very effective in this so far.
That's why Vote Leave need to bloody well pull their finger out.
What are they doing this week other than sending out daily emails?
Cameron is an absolute sh*t. People voted for a referendum, a free f*cking vote and that c*nt Cameron now thinks he owns us. How dare he treat the blonde bombshell like he did. What a c*nt. Hope Leavers actually vote and stuff the effing liberal elite across UK and Europe.
And, if I recall correctly, you are a loyal and hard-working Tory activist.
Cameron needs to remember that he's just the tenant, not the owner of the Tory party
Perhaps you might remember that Cameron delivered a majority government, delivered a referendum and delivered a free vote to the Cabinet and MP's.
All events that many Conservatives thought unlikely.
Conservative LEAVE have nothing to complain about save that they have invested so much on their hopes that are likely to be dashed and blame Cameron for it.
Big news on ITN - Toyota shoot leave's fox. Must stay in Europe
or what they'll move to France and their worst performing factory ?
LOL
They are making an important statement that cannot easily be dismissed and Airbus said much the same today. Airbus in North Wales is huge for the economy together with Bristol
Look at what they do not what they say. As Richard T has pointed out the same people who were leaving becuase of the Euro are still here. A bit like all those bankers who went to Switzerland but didn't.
If Toyota bugger off it simply means the other VMs sell more cars and become more profitable.
I don't think the employees or their families will think like that. This will become a defining issue and its no use leave telling firms to push off (polite)
Total guff
we were in the EU when
Peugeot closed their operations in Ryton and moved them to Slovakia Ford closed their operation in Dagenham and moved to Valencia and Cologne Ford closed the Transit line in Southampton and moved it to Turkey LDV closed and was moved to China Rover was ditched by BMW GM closed in Bedford and moved to Hungary
The EU protects nothing, multinats move to suit themselves and if anything being in the EU makes it easier for them to close their UK operations.
This will be an issue to voters in these industries whether you like it or not
Only if you think the workers are naive dorks. I dont.
Big news on ITN - Toyota shoot leave's fox. Must stay in Europe
or what they'll move to France and their worst performing factory ?
LOL
They are making an important statement that cannot easily be dismissed and Airbus said much the same today. Airbus in North Wales is huge for the economy together with Bristol
Look at what they do not what they say. As Richard T has pointed out the same people who were leaving becuase of the Euro are still here. A bit like all those bankers who went to Switzerland but didn't.
If Toyota bugger off it simply means the other VMs sell more cars and become more profitable.
I don't think the employees or their families will think like that. This will become a defining issue and its no use leave telling firms to push off (polite)
Total guff
we were in the EU when
Peugeot closed their operations in Ryton and moved them to Slovakia Ford closed their operation in Dagenham and moved to Valencia and Cologne Ford closed the Transit line in Southampton and moved it to Turkey LDV closed and was moved to China Rover was ditched by BMW GM closed in Bedford and moved to Hungary
The EU protects nothing, multinats move to suit themselves and if anything being in the EU makes it easier for them to close their UK operations.
Cameron is an absolute sh*t. People voted for a referendum, a free f*cking vote and that c*nt Cameron now thinks he owns us. How dare he treat the blonde bombshell like he did. What a c*nt. Hope Leavers actually vote and stuff the effing liberal elite across UK and Europe.
Cameron has set a date for the referendum and allowed ministers to campaign on either side.
He took the mickey out of BoJo for promoting the ridiculous idea that voting Leave would bring a better deal and another chance to stay in. Lots of people think that is daft.
But I see this is going to be a civil debate in the Tory party! Indeed they seem to be going down the SLAB route of splitting the elected members from the grassroots.
Popcorn time!
Except the split of elected members matches the grassroots.
Divide and Conquer! It is 75 repeating itself as farce.
- Taken the Conservative Party out of the EPP grouping, as promised - Voted in favour of a Lisbon referendum, as promised - Introduced the Act to require a referendum on further treaty changes transferring power, as promised - Implemented a renegotiation followed by an In/Out referendum, as promised - Chosen a date for the In/Out referendum before the end of 2017, as promised - Allowed ministers, including Cabinet ministers, to campaign on either side, as promised.
Guys, it's not David Cameron who is wrecking the party on this issue.
Big news on ITN - Toyota shoot leave's fox. Must stay in Europe
or what they'll move to France and their worst performing factory ?
LOL
They are making an important statement that cannot easily be dismissed and Airbus said much the same today. Airbus in North Wales is huge for the economy together with Bristol
Look at what they do not what they say. As Richard T has pointed out the same people who were leaving becuase of the Euro are still here. A bit like all those bankers who went to Switzerland but didn't.
If Toyota bugger off it simply means the other VMs sell more cars and become more profitable.
I don't think the employees or their families will think like that. This will become a defining issue and its no use leave telling firms to push off (polite)
Total guff
we were in the EU when
Peugeot closed their operations in Ryton and moved them to Slovakia Ford closed their operation in Dagenham and moved to Valencia and Cologne Ford closed the Transit line in Southampton and moved it to Turkey LDV closed and was moved to China Rover was ditched by BMW GM closed in Bedford and moved to Hungary
The EU protects nothing, multinats move to suit themselves and if anything being in the EU makes it easier for them to close their UK operations.
This will be an issue to voters in these industries whether you like it or not
Only if you think the workers are naive dorks. I dont.
Is it leaves intention to attempt to win the argument by insulting ordinary voters
- Taken the Conservative Party out of the EPP grouping, as promised - Voted in favour of a Lisbon referendum, as promised - Introduced the Act to require a referendum on further treaty changes transferring power, as promised - Implemented a renegotiation followed by an In/Out referendum, as promised - Chosen a date for the In/Out referendum before the end of 2017, as promised - Allowed ministers, including Cabinet ministers, to campaign on either side, as promised.
Guys, it's not David Cameron who is wrecking the party on this issue.
No what I am saying is that if they keep making these threats and then not acting on them why should anyone believe them when they say the same thing once again.
This is an argument you can't win. Every time a company says they will pull out the first thing we will do is find out what their position was on the Euro and what statements they have made about the EU in the past. Wonderful thing the internet. It shoots down these wild claims in a way we would have found very difficult a couple of decades ago.
For the zillionth time, I'm not trying to win the argument. I'm a persuadee, not a persuader in this.
But you are kidding yourself if you think the average voter is going to be impressed by positions on the Euro a decade or more ago.
Ask Toyota. They made the threat in 2000 and then failed to act on it. Hence hollow.
Or it turned out differently from what they honestly expected.
You don't seem to be able to get your head around the idea that people who disagree with you might be honest.
No what I am saying is that if they keep making these threats and then not acting on them why should anyone believe them when they say the same thing once again.
This is an argument you can't win. Every time a company says they will pull out the first thing we will do is find out what their position was on the Euro and what statements they have made about the EU in the past. Wonderful thing the internet. It shoots down these wild claims in a way we would have found very difficult a couple of decades ago.
I don't think many would be bothered by that sort of approach. They have a decent job now, and may not in the future. That is what they will fear.
The reason that people dislike change (and Britons are the exemplar of that mindset) is that in any change it is easier to identify the losers than the winners, and the losers will also scream the loudest.
I suspect that any lost jobs at Toyota etc would swiftly be made up by increased employment possibilities in the service sector. In the NHS for example when we can no longer employ our European Nurses etc.
Cameron is an absolute sh*t. People voted for a referendum, a free f*cking vote and that c*nt Cameron now thinks he owns us. How dare he treat the blonde bombshell like he did. What a c*nt. Hope Leavers actually vote and stuff the effing liberal elite across UK and Europe.
And, if I recall correctly, you are a loyal and hard-working Tory activist.
Cameron needs to remember that he's just the tenant, not the owner of the Tory party
Dave can formulate policy as he likes ..after all the referendum wasin the manifesto iirc. The Party can get rid of him if they think it's not acceptable. Some of the anti Dave stuff on here is risible.
Cameron is an absolute sh*t. People voted for a referendum, a free f*cking vote and that c*nt Cameron now thinks he owns us. How dare he treat the blonde bombshell like he did. What a c*nt. Hope Leavers actually vote and stuff the effing liberal elite across UK and Europe.
Cameron's mockery of Boris's painful divorce was worthy of McBride. In a better time Cameron would have been challenged to a duel for his caddish behaviour.
Cameron is an absolute sh*t. People voted for a referendum, a free f*cking vote and that c*nt Cameron now thinks he owns us. How dare he treat the blonde bombshell like he did. What a c*nt. Hope Leavers actually vote and stuff the effing liberal elite across UK and Europe.
Cameron has set a date for the referendum and allowed ministers to campaign on either side.
He took the mickey out of BoJo for promoting the ridiculous idea that voting Leave would bring a better deal and another chance to stay in. Lots of people think that is daft.
But I see this is going to be a civil debate in the Tory party! Indeed they seem to be going down the SLAB route of splitting the elected members from the grassroots.
Popcorn time!
Except the split of elected members matches the grassroots.
Divide and Conquer! It is 75 repeating itself as farce.
Big news on ITN - Toyota shoot leave's fox. Must stay in Europe
or what they'll move to France and their worst performing factory ?
LOL
They are making an important statement that cannot easily be dismissed and Airbus said much the same today. Airbus in North Wales is huge for the economy together with Bristol
Look at what they do not what they say. As Richard T has pointed out the same people who were leaving becuase of the Euro are still here. A bit like all those bankers who went to Switzerland but didn't.
If Toyota bugger off it simply means the other VMs sell more cars and become more profitable.
I don't think the employees or their families will think like that. This will become a defining issue and its no use leave telling firms to push off (polite)
Total guff
we were in the EU when
Peugeot closed their operations in Ryton and moved them to Slovakia Ford closed their operation in Dagenham and moved to Valencia and Cologne Ford closed the Transit line in Southampton and moved it to Turkey LDV closed and was moved to China Rover was ditched by BMW GM closed in Bedford and moved to Hungary
The EU protects nothing, multinats move to suit themselves and if anything being in the EU makes it easier for them to close their UK operations.
This will be an issue to voters in these industries whether you like it or not
Only if you think the workers are naive dorks. I dont.
Is it leaves intention to attempt to win the argument by insulting ordinary voters
Certainly not, your the one advancing the theory people cant judge with the evidence of their own eyes.
Cameron is an absolute sh*t. People voted for a referendum, a free f*cking vote and that c*nt Cameron now thinks he owns us. How dare he treat the blonde bombshell like he did. What a c*nt. Hope Leavers actually vote and stuff the effing liberal elite across UK and Europe.
And, if I recall correctly, you are a loyal and hard-working Tory activist.
Cameron needs to remember that he's just the tenant, not the owner of the Tory party
Perhaps you might remember that Cameron delivered a majority government, delivered a referendum and delivered a free vote to the Cabinet and MP's.
All events that many Conservatives thought unlikely.
Conservative LEAVE have nothing to complain about save that they have invested so much on their hopes that are likely to be dashed and blame Cameron for it.
@kevverage: Don't (yet) know enough to critique, but reads as an admirably reasonable, rational pro #Brexit economic analysis https://t.co/EM3YafsWZN
He lets himself down a bit by mistyping million for billion but the point that saving EU contributions could make a useful reduction to the deficit without further public services cuts, or tax rises, is a powerful one, I think.
Except the split of elected members matches the grassroots.
That is a really good point.
And, in all fairness, it's a split which reasonably closely matches the general population too. The Conservatives are having a very public version of the same debate that is going on in private in households and workplaces up and down the country.
I don't know if the split will do the Conservatives lasting damage or not - but it shouldn't unless the general public are total hypocrites. All of us out in the real world have close friends and family on the opposite side of the debate to ourselves, I'm sure.
Whilst the outcome of the referendum may well influence whether or not I vote Conservative again at the next General Election the split in the Conservative Party, in of itself, will not do so.
Comments
You only have to look at recent threads and the number of party supporters who have suggested that in the absence of sensible alternative they'll vote Tory but through gritted teeth, to realise that there's a problem.
However, why don't you leave[1] it up to the people. Tell them about the possibility of interest rate rises in a Brexit. Let them decide if it's in their best interest or not.
{1] pun unintended.
This is an argument you can't win. Every time a company says they will pull out the first thing we will do is find out what their position was on the Euro and what statements they have made about the EU in the past. Wonderful thing the internet. It shoots down these wild claims in a way we would have found very difficult a couple of decades ago.
That's why Vote Leave need to bloody well pull their finger out.
What are they doing this week other than sending out daily emails?
All events that many Conservatives thought unlikely.
Conservative LEAVE have nothing to complain about save that they have invested so much on their hopes that are likely to be dashed and blame Cameron for it.
But that's politics for you.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5023635/France-accused-of-protectionism-over-Renault-car-factory-switch.html
- Taken the Conservative Party out of the EPP grouping, as promised
- Voted in favour of a Lisbon referendum, as promised
- Introduced the Act to require a referendum on further treaty changes transferring power, as promised
- Implemented a renegotiation followed by an In/Out referendum, as promised
- Chosen a date for the In/Out referendum before the end of 2017, as promised
- Allowed ministers, including Cabinet ministers, to campaign on either side, as promised.
Guys, it's not David Cameron who is wrecking the party on this issue.
President Trump will appoint Judge Roy Bean to the SCOTUS...
But you are kidding yourself if you think the average voter is going to be impressed by positions on the Euro a decade or more ago.
The reason that people dislike change (and Britons are the exemplar of that mindset) is that in any change it is easier to identify the losers than the winners, and the losers will also scream the loudest.
I suspect that any lost jobs at Toyota etc would swiftly be made up by increased employment possibilities in the service sector. In the NHS for example when we can no longer employ our European Nurses etc.
And, in all fairness, it's a split which reasonably closely matches the general population too. The Conservatives are having a very public version of the same debate that is going on in private in households and workplaces up and down the country.
I don't know if the split will do the Conservatives lasting damage or not - but it shouldn't unless the general public are total hypocrites. All of us out in the real world have close friends and family on the opposite side of the debate to ourselves, I'm sure.
Whilst the outcome of the referendum may well influence whether or not I vote Conservative again at the next General Election the split in the Conservative Party, in of itself, will not do so.