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  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Well quite blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/05/the-biggest-loser-of-the-night-russell-brand/
    This election has just done to Brand what the last election did to Clegg: exposed that his powers of persuasion over the little people are nothing more than a Guardianista fantasy. In 2010 every liberal was banging on about Cleggmania and saying Nick was the Obama of Britain. (Obama should have sued.) Then the election results came in and revealed that Clegg’s Lib Dems actually lost seats – 57, down from 61 in 2005 (and now, of course, his party is wiped out).

    This time round, leftish observers talked up the ‘Brand effect’, the possibility that Rusty’s reversal on not voting and his interview with and endorsement of Miliband might help swing the election. ‘The Tories should be worried’, declared the Guardian. Yeah, not so much. If Brand had any effect – and he didn’t – it was only to damn Labour even more than it was already damned.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Anyone who I lost a bet to please email bank details and I'll send over the winnings...

    STOP STOP STOP

    isam can you confirm you're not a Nigerian prince ?
    I willa not ansa dat
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,364
    Isam,

    "Anyone who I lost a bet to please email bank details and I'll send over the winnings... "


    I didn't expect to win but for the ten pounds you owe me, please donate £5 to Cafod and £5 to Ukip. I'll give a £1 to Guide Dogs for the Blind.

    Nice doing business with you.

    I suspect Ukip will have enough second places and publicity from the EU referendum to challenge strongly in the future. Without the threat of Nicola, you would have won the bet.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,367

    And now on the BBC...back from 5 minutes of VE service....back to navel grazing about Labour....

    Funny that - I just watched 40 minutes of BBC VE coverage. Must be a different Beeb!

    There's this wonderful concept called 'channels' or 'streams' it enables different people to make different choices about what they watch.
  • Eh_ehm_a_ehEh_ehm_a_eh Posts: 552

    And now on the BBC...back from 5 minutes of VE service....back to navel grazing about Labour....

    Funny that - I just watched 40 minutes of BBC VE coverage. Must be a different Beeb!

    BBC News...they spent no more than 5 mins (Sky News covering it)...it was far more important to hear John Mann and Jacqui Smith talk to Marr about Labour.
    BBC1 a whole channel with uninterupted coverage.
    What more do you want?

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Plato said:

    Well quite blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/05/the-biggest-loser-of-the-night-russell-brand/

    This election has just done to Brand what the last election did to Clegg: exposed that his powers of persuasion over the little people are nothing more than a Guardianista fantasy. In 2010 every liberal was banging on about Cleggmania and saying Nick was the Obama of Britain. (Obama should have sued.) Then the election results came in and revealed that Clegg’s Lib Dems actually lost seats – 57, down from 61 in 2005 (and now, of course, his party is wiped out).

    This time round, leftish observers talked up the ‘Brand effect’, the possibility that Rusty’s reversal on not voting and his interview with and endorsement of Miliband might help swing the election. ‘The Tories should be worried’, declared the Guardian. Yeah, not so much. If Brand had any effect – and he didn’t – it was only to damn Labour even more than it was already damned.
    Have to confess I thought that cretins influence would help labour
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,338
    edited May 2015
    Plato said:

    Well quite blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/05/the-biggest-loser-of-the-night-russell-brand/

    This election has just done to Brand what the last election did to Clegg: exposed that his powers of persuasion over the little people are nothing more than a Guardianista fantasy. In 2010 every liberal was banging on about Cleggmania and saying Nick was the Obama of Britain. (Obama should have sued.) Then the election results came in and revealed that Clegg’s Lib Dems actually lost seats – 57, down from 61 in 2005 (and now, of course, his party is wiped out).

    This time round, leftish observers talked up the ‘Brand effect’, the possibility that Rusty’s reversal on not voting and his interview with and endorsement of Miliband might help swing the election. ‘The Tories should be worried’, declared the Guardian. Yeah, not so much. If Brand had any effect – and he didn’t – it was only to damn Labour even more than it was already damned.
    Nonsense...they totally misunderstood what Brand is up to....This is the best possible result for his bottom line. He now gets another 5 years of material / followers, books, movies and youtube revenue. Quids in.

    I remember hearing Mark Thomas said that much that he wished the Tory and Labour bar stewards got shafted, they pay his mortgage....
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Anyone who I lost a bet to please email bank details and I'll send over the winnings...

    STOP STOP STOP

    isam can you confirm you're not a Nigerian prince ?
    I willa not ansa dat
    Tell the one about Linford Christie again.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191

    As predicted, the claims of high turnout were bollocks outside Scotland. I never understand why tellers' reports of polling stations being "busier than expected" have any meaning. Unless they've worked in the same polling booth for at least the 2 previous GEs, how could they know what "unusually high" looked like?

    Every single one of my mates that I chatted to said "it was busier than last time I voted".

    But yeah.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,088

    Mystig Meg of UK politics?
    Clegg 5th May
    ""We all know that no-one is going to win the election outright on Thursday, despite what Ed Miliband and David Cameron says."

    To be fair, he was right about Ed's chances! :lol:
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The BBC is one of the election losers. They have the least friendly government imaginable for the charter renewal.
  • rullkorullko Posts: 161
    Omnium said:

    I suspect that they'll only be one voice that'll really carry weight in Scotland - David Mundell in Dumfreisshire.

    The SNP are going to have to ask Mr Cameron nicely if he might consider their views.

    The suggestion that David Mundell's voice "carries weight" in the Tories is certainly a novel one.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    BBC2

    And now on the BBC...back from 5 minutes of VE service....back to navel grazing about Labour....

    Funny that - I just watched 40 minutes of BBC VE coverage. Must be a different Beeb!

  • NoEasyDayNoEasyDay Posts: 454

    As predicted, the claims of high turnout were bollocks outside Scotland. I never understand why tellers' reports of polling stations being "busier than expected" have any meaning. Unless they've worked in the same polling booth for at least the 2 previous GEs, how could they know what "unusually high" looked like?

    Every single one of my mates that I chatted to said "it was busier than last time I voted".

    But yeah.
    It was busier than usual at mine, I took the dog.
  • AllyPally_RobAllyPally_Rob Posts: 605
    Today feels more like 1983 than 1992 from a Labour perspective. Losing ground to an incumbent government, and far far away from power.

    But if this is a replay of '83, that means Miliband is the new Foot rather than Kinnock...
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Arf


    May2015 ElectionVerified account
    @May2015NS
    #ICM is the outlier. 42 out of 65 polls have put #Labour ahead in 2015, incl 10 of the past 13
  • Conservatives gain St Ives.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    isam said:

    Plato said:

    Well quite blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/05/the-biggest-loser-of-the-night-russell-brand/

    This election has just done to Brand what the last election did to Clegg: exposed that his powers of persuasion over the little people are nothing more than a Guardianista fantasy. In 2010 every liberal was banging on about Cleggmania and saying Nick was the Obama of Britain. (Obama should have sued.) Then the election results came in and revealed that Clegg’s Lib Dems actually lost seats – 57, down from 61 in 2005 (and now, of course, his party is wiped out).

    This time round, leftish observers talked up the ‘Brand effect’, the possibility that Rusty’s reversal on not voting and his interview with and endorsement of Miliband might help swing the election. ‘The Tories should be worried’, declared the Guardian. Yeah, not so much. If Brand had any effect – and he didn’t – it was only to damn Labour even more than it was already damned.
    Have to confess I thought that cretins influence would help labour

    Hopefully this shows that the British electorate can separate entertainment (though Brand's popularity in that field also baffles me) from politics. Why on earth should I care more about what a luvvie thinks than the political insights of a guy or gal behind the counter at Chipotle or Starbucks?
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Not sure why Sky make it CON maj 4?
  • I suspect Lynton Crosby paid Brand to get cosy with Ed.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Results so far: - Tory 330 – LAB 232 – SNP 56 – LD 8.
  • NoEasyDayNoEasyDay Posts: 454

    Today feels more like 1983 than 1992 from a Labour perspective. Losing ground to an incumbent government, and far far away from power.

    But if this is a replay of '83, that means Miliband is the new Foot rather than Kinnock...

    But that makes Dave Maggie rather than Major.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    JEO said:

    In the South and Midlands, Labour don't seem to have won a seat outside heavily ethnic areas and university towns.

    As part of their soul-searching, they need to understand why that's a problem for them. They could try asking David Goodhart as a start.

  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    NoEasyDay said:

    As predicted, the claims of high turnout were bollocks outside Scotland. I never understand why tellers' reports of polling stations being "busier than expected" have any meaning. Unless they've worked in the same polling booth for at least the 2 previous GEs, how could they know what "unusually high" looked like?

    Every single one of my mates that I chatted to said "it was busier than last time I voted".

    But yeah.
    It was busier than usual at mine, I took the dog.
    WAHEY

    Thinking about it, I can see a lot of "not comparing like with like" - my last election was a local one, as I was overseas for the last Euros.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Ave_it said:

    Not sure why Sky make it CON maj 4?

    331 vs 232

    99 red balloons go bye...

  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,023
    ...And there goes St Ives.Final CON gain.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Labour source: "in four years [Miliband's team] have undone the work of a political generation & taken us back to pre-Kinnock" #GE2015

    Sky
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451

    And now on the BBC...back from 5 minutes of VE service....back to navel grazing about Labour....

    Funny that - I just watched 40 minutes of BBC VE coverage. Must be a different Beeb!

    BBC News...they spent no more than 5 mins (Sky News covering it)...it was far more important to hear John Mann and Jacqui Smith talk to Marr about Labour.

    You mean they did not just repeat the coverage across all the BBC channels? Leftie scum.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,990
    edited May 2015
    AllyPally No Miliband won 30%, the same as Kinnock got in 1987, indeed he actually won 1 more seat than Kinnock, Foot won 209 seats and 27%. Of course, if Labour had held all its seats in Scotland it would actually have won about the 271 seats Kinnock got in 1992 and the 34% he attained
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Let's hope Sky are allowed to take over BBC!

    As long as Emily stays...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2015
    Anorak said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Anyone who I lost a bet to please email bank details and I'll send over the winnings...

    STOP STOP STOP

    isam can you confirm you're not a Nigerian prince ?
    I willa not ansa dat
    Tell the one about Linford Christie again.
    That joke has been told to black friends who laughed at it. I even asked if it was alright to tell it and they said yes. his race isn't the point of the joke, it has been told about Seb Coe too, stop being so sensitive
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    Ave_it said:

    Not sure why Sky make it CON maj 4?

    That's what I was thinking.

    330 v 320?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451
    Jonathan said:

    And now on the BBC...back from 5 minutes of VE service....back to navel grazing about Labour....

    Funny that - I just watched 40 minutes of BBC VE coverage. Must be a different Beeb!

    There's this wonderful concept called 'channels' or 'streams' it enables different people to make different choices about what they watch.

    Sounds dangerously like communism to me.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,088
    edited May 2015

    Conservatives gain St Ives.

    Wow, just wow!

    Completely did NOT expect a Tory majority this time yesterday! Even though I voted Lab in Ilford North (in all honesty my vote could have gone either way), I actually don't mind the full GE result, so congrats to Dave and co. and everyone on Team Blue!

    Even the PB Tories :)
  • William_HWilliam_H Posts: 346

    As predicted, the claims of high turnout were bollocks outside Scotland. I never understand why tellers' reports of polling stations being "busier than expected" have any meaning. Unless they've worked in the same polling booth for at least the 2 previous GEs, how could they know what "unusually high" looked like?

    Turnout was the highest since '97 though
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Ave_it said:

    Not sure why Sky make it CON maj 4?

    Idiots are doing Con-326, rather than 2*(Con-323).
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,206
    Labour 99 seats behind Tories
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    OR maybe they think 3 CON are about to defect to SNP :lol:
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Con Maj of 2500ish

    Conservatives gain St Ives.

    Wow, just wow!

    Completely did NOT expect a Tory majority this time yesterday! Even though I voted Lab in Ilford North (in all honesty my vote could have gone either way), I actually don't mind the full GE result, so congrats to Dave and co. and everyone on Team Blue!

    Even the PB Tories :)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,990
    Franklin If the next Labour leader matches the 62 seats Thatcher gained in 1979 or the 77 seats Heath gained in 1970 or the 59 seats Wilson won in 1964 they will lead the largest party in 2020
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,088
    Ave_it said:

    Not sure why Sky make it CON maj 4?

    Majority would be 12?

    331-325 = 6

    6 x 2 = 12
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Ave_it said:

    OR maybe they think 3 CON are about to defect to SNP :lol:

    Right track, but surely 329 defectors
  • NoEasyDayNoEasyDay Posts: 454
    TGOHF said:

    Ave_it said:

    Not sure why Sky make it CON maj 4?

    331 vs 232

    99 red balloons go bye...

    Tracy Ullman ?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500
    Wonder what the squeakers thoughts are?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Has someone given Norman Smith a Glasgow Kiss?
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Pulpstar said:

    Ferrucks sake I can't believe this

    Stirling:

    Labour Johanna Boyd 13,303 25.5 -16.2
    Conservative Stephen Kerr[2] 12,051 23.1 -0.9

    I bet that was some misguided tacticals that cost me a decent win on Con 2nd there !

    For what its worth I think there was probably a bit of Tory tactical voting for Johanna but not enough to make a difference in the finishing order. I've actually met Johanna, she is the leader of Stirling Council and was a strong candidate who got swept away by the SNP tsunami, a name to look out for in the next few years though while SLAB rebuilds itself.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,206

    Blues win the Premiership twice over - Chelsea and Conservatives.

    The football indicator holds good.

    Sunil means "Blue"
    but you voted Red.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,338
    Plato said:

    Has someone given Norman Smith a Glasgow Kiss?

    Craig Oliver?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    @isam

    Credit for staying on after what must have been a disappointing night.

    Any thoughts on how UKIP should move now in terms of policy and/or leader?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,367

    Labour 99 seats behind Tories

    Just about doable in a single parliament. Just.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451
    antifrank said:

    The BBC is one of the election losers. They have the least friendly government imaginable for the charter renewal.

    Last night's BBC coverage was utterly shambolic. They seemed to have absolutely no idea what was going on. ITN and Sky were much better, though neither was that good. ]

    As for the Charter, this I where the Tories need to be careful of hubris. The public do not hate the BBC in the way some of the more swivel-eyed Blues do. Though, to be fair, I think I saw more claims of BBC bias from the left during this campaign.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    When's the next poll out?
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Cyclefree said:

    JEO said:

    In the South and Midlands, Labour don't seem to have won a seat outside heavily ethnic areas and university towns.

    As part of their soul-searching, they need to understand why that's a problem for them. They could try asking David Goodhart as a start.

    My first piece of advice is that they should stop demonising the Tories with respect to the NHS. It's a tired and very stale argument.

    As someone with direct, recent and prolonged dealings with both NHS Wales (mental health, oncology, respiratory) and NHS England (oncology), they've really got no room to talk, and many voters know that.


  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    NoEasyDay said:

    TGOHF said:

    Ave_it said:

    Not sure why Sky make it CON maj 4?

    331 vs 232

    99 red balloons go bye...

    Tracy Ullman ?
    German singer called Nena - O-toene "neun und neunzig luftballons"
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,088

    Blues win the Premiership twice over - Chelsea and Conservatives.

    The football indicator holds good.

    Sunil means "Blue"
    but you voted Red.
    Um, that was for local reasons :cold_sweat:
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Going to look forward to the BBC license fee being reviewed, boundary changes, EU referendum, devolution, ability to strike, etc. Guardian readers will be crying into their lentil soups today. Lord Kinnock summed up the Labour party perfectly last night. When faced with defeat he turned on the voters and claimed they were not intelligent enough.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,439
    Was it me, or was Emily Maitliss really trying to hold back the tears when she was being interviewed ?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Jonathan said:

    May even get involved again myself somehow.

    You should Jonathan, if you can. You'd be good.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    CD13 said:

    Isam,

    "Anyone who I lost a bet to please email bank details and I'll send over the winnings... "


    I didn't expect to win but for the ten pounds you owe me, please donate £5 to Cafod and £5 to Ukip. I'll give a £1 to Guide Dogs for the Blind.

    Nice doing business with you.

    I suspect Ukip will have enough second places and publicity from the EU referendum to challenge strongly in the future. Without the threat of Nicola, you would have won the bet.

    My new bank card was sent to old branch in Kentish Town so will do that Monday alternatively send bank details and I can do internet transfer

    Yes I think it was the scots that done us.. My whole betting on the GE was based on Ukip getting a decent double figure vote share, but unfortunately the extrapolations didn't deliver. Hey ho
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,757
    John_M said:

    Cyclefree said:

    JEO said:

    In the South and Midlands, Labour don't seem to have won a seat outside heavily ethnic areas and university towns.

    As part of their soul-searching, they need to understand why that's a problem for them. They could try asking David Goodhart as a start.

    My first piece of advice is that they should stop demonising the Tories with respect to the NHS. It's a tired and very stale argument.

    As someone with direct, recent and prolonged dealings with both NHS Wales (mental health, oncology, respiratory) and NHS England (oncology), they've really got no room to talk, and many voters know that.


    Theres only so many times you can use the 'X will destroy Y' line. I think labour have run that one into the ground.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,088

    NoEasyDay said:

    TGOHF said:

    Ave_it said:

    Not sure why Sky make it CON maj 4?

    331 vs 232

    99 red balloons go bye...

    Tracy Ullman ?
    German singer called Nena - O-toene "neun und neunzig luftballons"
    Oder in Englisch - Ninety-nine Red Balloons
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    HMG appointments due this afternoon.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,338
    edited May 2015

    antifrank said:

    The BBC is one of the election losers. They have the least friendly government imaginable for the charter renewal.

    Last night's BBC coverage was utterly shambolic. They seemed to have absolutely no idea what was going on. ITN and Sky were much better, though neither was that good. ]

    As for the Charter, this I where the Tories need to be careful of hubris. The public do not hate the BBC in the way some of the more swivel-eyed Blues do. Though, to be fair, I think I saw more claims of BBC bias from the left during this campaign.
    None of the media outlets seem to keep up with what was going on and too many idiots making comments aboout "national vote share neck and neck" and "Tories only 7% ahead"....

    They don't have enough people of the quality of Thrasher and Curtice (who are clearly busy just processing the data) central to their coverage. BBC did have Kellner as well, but he just couldn't come to terms with the fact that his polling was so wrong, continually wittering about the fact they had resurveyed their group and it didn't show any of this.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,637
    Ave_it said:

    When's the next poll out?

    Ashcroft poll of Cabinet room.

    I can tell you exclusively that a strong Lib Dem incumbency effect should save them.
  • AllyPally_RobAllyPally_Rob Posts: 605

    antifrank said:

    The BBC is one of the election losers. They have the least friendly government imaginable for the charter renewal.

    Last night's BBC coverage was utterly shambolic. They seemed to have absolutely no idea what was going on. ITN and Sky were much better, though neither was that good. ]

    As for the Charter, this I where the Tories need to be careful of hubris. The public do not hate the BBC in the way some of the more swivel-eyed Blues do. Though, to be fair, I think I saw more claims of BBC bias from the left during this campaign.
    Couldnt agree more about the BBC coverage. The amount of times they lost a feed or were late to a count or left a count early ect...

    Dimbleby needs to call it a day now. The coverage was notably better with Hugh Edwards this morning. Had some decent guests like David Aaranovich.

    On the other hand BBC Radio was superb as usual, Peter Allen on 5live has been excellent today.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    antifrank said:

    The BBC is one of the election losers. They have the least friendly government imaginable for the charter renewal.

    Is that really the case? The BBC happily obliged all of Cameron's wishes for the TV debates and Cameron will repay the favour.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Ave_it said:

    When's the next poll out?

    Kellner dishing out the P45s to staff as we speak..
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,439
    BBC Held Con minority projection up for aggggges - couldn't bring themselves to contemplate Con Majority
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,990
    edited May 2015
    I would say the next Labour leader may well have to do a deal with the LDs though to get into power again initially
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    For anyone who still thinks EdM wasn't that bad telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11592866/Just-how-bad-was-Labours-general-election-performance.html
    With Labour holding just 232 seats - down from 258 in 2010 - this election is the worst for the party since 1983. Back then the party won just 209 seats, losing 60 since the previous election.

    Labour has lost seats at every election since 1997, when Tony Blair went into Downing Street on a landslide of 418 seats. This means that the party has lost seats for four elections in a row, which has not happened since the 1950s.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,504

    antifrank said:

    The BBC is one of the election losers. They have the least friendly government imaginable for the charter renewal.

    Last night's BBC coverage was utterly shambolic. They seemed to have absolutely no idea what was going on. ITN and Sky were much better, though neither was that good. ]

    As for the Charter, this I where the Tories need to be careful of hubris. The public do not hate the BBC in the way some of the more swivel-eyed Blues do. Though, to be fair, I think I saw more claims of BBC bias from the left during this campaign.
    "State Broadcaster" - surely more at home in Maoist states than Cool Britannia.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,138

    isam said:

    Anyone who I lost a bet to please email bank details and I'll send over the winnings...

    STOP STOP STOP

    isam can you confirm you're not a Nigerian prince ?
    Ave_it said:

    Let's hope Sky are allowed to take over BBC!

    As long as Emily stays...

    Lol.

    Re the TV - I watched Sky as we have no BBC reception here in Spain. Generally slick and quick with all the results. I was impressed and with no commercial breaks to disrupt the flow of Tory gains. I suspect it was rather better than the Beeb to judge from comments on here.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    How many MP's will not be voters in the chamber?
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    At least I do not have to change my shoe avatar for jack ankle boots.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,439
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000886

    I'd love to see the internal churn in the Pudsey voters.

    LD -> Lab
    LD -> Con
    Lab -> UKIP
    Lab -> Con

    I reckon
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,338
    edited May 2015
    My argument for reform of telly tax isn't based just in the belief that BBC has too much of a metro liberal elite focus, it is that the telly tax isn't fit for purpose in the modern world.

    It can't be enforced, it is as simple as that. The modern wold of the internet, iPad, etc etc etc, we don't all huddle around the moving picture box in the corner of the living room to choose from 4 channels.

    IMO it is totally unfair to charge everybody regardless if they have a telly or not, or if they use BBC or not. If the BBC output is good, people wont have a problem paying for it in the same way as people pay for Sky for the footy.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,439
    HYUFD said:

    I would say the next Labour leader may well have to do a deal with the LDs though to get into power again initially

    SNP more likely, Scotland has gone for a generation.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,583
    4 main runners:

    2/1 Chuka
    4/1 Burnham
    5/1 Cooper
    6/1 Jarvis
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    @isam

    Credit for staying on after what must have been a disappointing night.

    Any thoughts on how UKIP should move now in terms of policy and/or leader?

    120 second places is something to work with. They need to look at their best prospects out of them and throw the kitchen sink at them. The local council results could give them something to build on.

    In terms of leader they almost certainly need someone less divisive. Suzanne Evans would be a solid candidate, although Steven Woolfe or Paul Nuttall being working class and from the north could help to change the stereotype of UKIP being made up of middle class home counties types.

    I would like to think that the EU referendum will keep them in the news for the next two years.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    @isam

    Credit for staying on after what must have been a disappointing night.

    Any thoughts on how UKIP should move now in terms of policy and/or leader?

    As the party has grown so quickly there's a bit of conflict (not major) between the old school libertarians and the newer ones who talk predominately about immigration. In reality they need do nothing for a while, when the dust has settled a big rise in votes is there for all to see. How to approach electoral reform is the key to progress, under FPTP seats will be very difficult to take.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,206
    MikeL said:

    4 main runners:

    2/1 Chuka
    4/1 Burnham
    5/1 Cooper
    6/1 Jarvis

    After Ed Is Crap it's Chuka Umunna's Not Trustworthy.

    I'm sure there's an acronym in there somewhere.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    MikeL said:

    4 main runners:

    2/1 Chuka
    4/1 Burnham
    5/1 Cooper
    6/1 Jarvis

    Chuka will not help Labour outside of metropolitan areas.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,338
    edited May 2015
    And back to LABOUR LABOUR LABOUR droning on BBC News, with yet another former Labour MP....have all other political parties refused to put people up?

    I saw Gove on for the Tories and Paddy for Lib Dems in studio for an hour or so, but I think that was it for the whole night.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,439
    @Jungleland If you're lurking I think Green seats can be settled at 1 :D
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    John_M said:

    Cyclefree said:

    JEO said:

    In the South and Midlands, Labour don't seem to have won a seat outside heavily ethnic areas and university towns.

    As part of their soul-searching, they need to understand why that's a problem for them. They could try asking David Goodhart as a start.

    My first piece of advice is that they should stop demonising the Tories with respect to the NHS. It's a tired and very stale argument.

    As someone with direct, recent and prolonged dealings with both NHS Wales (mental health, oncology, respiratory) and NHS England (oncology), they've really got no room to talk, and many voters know that.


    Theres only so many times you can use the 'X will destroy Y' line. I think labour have run that one into the ground.
    Particularly as the NHS didn't implode when the Coalition took over.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    new PM

    new thread
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    John_M said:

    Cyclefree said:

    JEO said:

    In the South and Midlands, Labour don't seem to have won a seat outside heavily ethnic areas and university towns.

    As part of their soul-searching, they need to understand why that's a problem for them. They could try asking David Goodhart as a start.

    My first piece of advice is that they should stop demonising the Tories with respect to the NHS. It's a tired and very stale argument.

    As someone with direct, recent and prolonged dealings with both NHS Wales (mental health, oncology, respiratory) and NHS England (oncology), they've really got no room to talk, and many voters know that.


    Weaponising the NHS was a mistake. For all its faults the coalition government has done a reasonable job on running it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    NoEasyDay said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Ashcroft Question ONE was more right I think.


    Perhaps the problem was that the second question was more seen as an "are you sure?" one, which made the voter needlessly (and falsely) re-think? No one likes to think they've given the wrong answer.

    Exactly what I have been saying for weeks.

    Lord A may need to rethink his polling.

    Assuming he carries on.

    Lord A may also want to review his biography of Cameron before its publication- from his comments it did not seem to be sympathetic to Cameron's campaign
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited May 2015
    JEO said:

    antifrank said:

    The BBC is one of the election losers. They have the least friendly government imaginable for the charter renewal.

    Is that really the case? The BBC happily obliged all of Cameron's wishes for the TV debates and Cameron will repay the favour.
    Er, the BBC ganged up with SKY and ITV to dictate the terms of the debates to the PM - He rightly said take a hike. - no favours due imho.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I'm seeing what you mean - golly its tediously one-sided. At least Charles Clarke talks sensible stuff.

    And back to LABOUR LABOUR LABOUR droning on BBC News, with yet another former Labour MP....have all other political parties refused to put people up?

    I saw Gove on for the Tories and Paddy for Lib Dems in studio for an hour or so, but I think that was it for the whole night.

  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243

    Right, off out for steak and beer now with some friends now to celebrate. Great day!

    Good day to all you fellow pb-ers!!

    Banbury Beer Festival for me.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2015

    @isam

    Credit for staying on after what must have been a disappointing night.

    Any thoughts on how UKIP should move now in terms of policy and/or leader?

    Ha that's ok! I'm not making it up when I say I bet a lot every day for my living, the GE outlay was the equivalent of a quiet day really, just talked about a lot more than my normal stuff and obv took a year to settle

    What I took from telling in Dagenham and Rainham yesterday was there are a huge number of people who feel let down and want someone to stick up for them.a lot if the elderly people thought I was the candidate and were begging me to win! On the other hand I felt v uncomfortable asking non white people for their card number whilst wearing a Ukip rosette, and it kind of hurt to be the bad guy in their eyes., as I presumed they thought I was anti them I've not met anyone at Ukip dos that was racist, and many I have met are desperate to be inclusive. I think it's a shame we were smeared as racist as it prevents a lot of people associating. It would be great to get a large black vote in particular without pandering to people on race issues. Just treat everyone the same

    Really though I don't think it's a failure to get 13%, it's prob above what I expected. The seats were terribly disappointing but v close to getting 3 or 4. It's the way the cookie bounces. Glorious failure, quite romantic!

    I think Farage was hasty to stand down and I hope he is encouraged to run again and wins. I don't want Ukip to be softened up and changed into a photoshopped glossy party with frontmen and women that the other sides like, I want us to be true to ourselves and tear it up!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,504
    isam said:

    @isam

    Credit for staying on after what must have been a disappointing night.

    Any thoughts on how UKIP should move now in terms of policy and/or leader?

    Ha that's ok! I'm not making it up when I say I bet a lot every day for my living, the GE outlay was the equivalent of a quiet day really, just talked about a lot more than my normal stuff and obv took a year to settle

    What I took from telling in Dagenham and Rainham yesterday was there are a huge number of people who feel let down and want someone to stick up for them.a lot if the elderly people thought I was the candidate and were begging me to win! On the other hand I felt v uncomfortable asking non white people for their card number whilst wearing a Ukip rosette, and it kind of hurt to be the bad guy in their eyes., as I presumed they thought I was anti them I've not met anyone at Ukip dos that was racist, and many I have met are desperate to be inclusive. I think it's a shame we were smeared as racist as it prevents a lot of people associating. It would be great to get a large black vote in particular without pandering to people on race issues. Just treat everyone the same

    Really though I don't think it's a failure to get 13%, it's prob above what I expected. The seats were terribly disappointing but v close to getting 3 or 4. It's the way the cookie bounces.

    I think Farage was hasty to stand down and I hope he is encouraged to run again and wins. I don't want Ukip to be softened up and changed into a photoshopped glossy party with frontmen and women that the other sides like, I want us to be true to ourselves and tear it up!
    Sam just mailed you again
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    MikeL said:

    4 main runners:

    2/1 Chuka
    4/1 Burnham
    5/1 Cooper
    6/1 Jarvis

    If Labour go for any of these they will be like the Bourbons of Spain - learning nothing, forgetting nothing.

    They are part of the problem not the solution. The first 3 are empty-headed and/or too connected with the current Labour party. I can't comment on Jarvis.

    They are not the people to rethink what Labour is about. They are not the people to persuade people in 5 years time to vote Labour.

    They need to go back to first principles:
    - They need to understand what liberal and progressive mean, really mean. Shacking up with segregationists is not progressive.
    - They need to rediscover the best of their Methodist, Christian socialist roots - the desire to help those at the bottom end better themselves.
    - They need to stop worshipping the state or any emanation of it (the NHS) as an end in itself rather than a means to an end.
    - They need to remember that the state, public servants are there to serve the people not the other way around.
    - They need to understand that economic competence is the sine qua non of every government.
    - They need to remember that they are spending taxpayers' money and that they need to spend it wisely and effectively.
    - They need to believe in Britain and British values rather than view them, in an de haut en bas way, with disdain.
    - They need to abandon the patronising and racist identity/community politics shtick.
    - They need to remember that it is what you do and not how you describe yourself which tells voters what your values are.
    - They need to stop behaving as if anyone who disagrees with them is evil.
    - They need to remember that decency and fairness and honesty are the monopoly of no-one.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,660
    isam said:

    @isam

    Credit for staying on after what must have been a disappointing night.

    Any thoughts on how UKIP should move now in terms of policy and/or leader?

    Ha that's ok! I'm not making it up when I say I bet a lot every day for my living, the GE outlay was the equivalent of a quiet day really, just talked about a lot more than my normal stuff and obv took a year to settle

    What I took from telling in Dagenham and Rainham yesterday was there are a huge number of people who feel let down and want someone to stick up for them.a lot if the elderly people thought I was the candidate and were begging me to win! On the other hand I felt v uncomfortable asking non white people for their card number whilst wearing a Ukip rosette, and it kind of hurt to be the bad guy in their eyes., as I presumed they thought I was anti them I've not met anyone at Ukip dos that was racist, and many I have met are desperate to be inclusive. I think it's a shame we were smeared as racist as it prevents a lot of people associating. It would be great to get a large black vote in particular without pandering to people on race issues. Just treat everyone the same

    Really though I don't think it's a failure to get 13%, it's prob above what I expected. The seats were terribly disappointing but v close to getting 3 or 4. It's the way the cookie bounces. Glorious failure, quite romantic!

    I think Farage was hasty to stand down and I hope he is encouraged to run again and wins. I don't want Ukip to be softened up and changed into a photoshopped glossy party with frontmen and women that the other sides like, I want us to be true to ourselves and tear it up!
    Very interesting thoughts on the leadership.
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    Cyclefree said:

    MikeL said:




    - They need to stop behaving as if anyone who disagrees with them is evil.
    - They need to remember that decency and fairness and honesty are the monopoly of no-one.

    Absolutely agree with your last 2 points, when I heard Nicola saying we have to get the Tories out, she practically hissed and snarled the word Tory as though they are the worst evil, I would have voted blue anyway, but I suspect there were many shy tories like me, I am always wary of discussing politics with friends.


  • GravitationGravitation Posts: 287
    From the BBC:

    'Conservative MP Glyn Davies - who held the Montgomeryshire seat in mid-Wales - admitted to being "rather pleased" with holding his 5,300 majority. However, one of those who ended up voting for him might not share his glee.

    He wrote on Facebook: "One voter decided to draw a detailed representation of a penis instead of a cross in my box on one ballot paper. Amazingly, because it was neatly drawn within the confines of the box, the returning officer deemed it a valid vote. Not sure the artist meant it to count, but I am grateful. If I knew who it was, I would like to thank him (or her) personally."

    He added later: "Seems it doesn't actually have to a cross. It's one of the funniest election incidents I've ever known of."'



    Oh Britain, you're fantastic.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,660
    Cyclefree said:

    MikeL said:

    4 main runners:

    2/1 Chuka
    4/1 Burnham
    5/1 Cooper
    6/1 Jarvis

    If Labour go for any of these they will be like the Bourbons of Spain - learning nothing, forgetting nothing.

    They are part of the problem not the solution. The first 3 are empty-headed and/or too connected with the current Labour party. I can't comment on Jarvis.

    They are not the people to rethink what Labour is about. They are not the people to persuade people in 5 years time to vote Labour.

    They need to go back to first principles:
    - They need to understand what liberal and progressive mean, really mean. Shacking up with segregationists is not progressive.
    - They need to rediscover the best of their Methodist, Christian socialist roots - the desire to help those at the bottom end better themselves.
    - They need to stop worshipping the state or any emanation of it (the NHS) as an end in itself rather than a means to an end.
    - They need to remember that the state, public servants are there to serve the people not the other way around.
    - They need to understand that economic competence is the sine qua non of every government.
    - They need to remember that they are spending taxpayers' money and that they need to spend it wisely and effectively.
    - They need to believe in Britain and British values rather than view them, in an de haut en bas way, with disdain.
    - They need to abandon the patronising and racist identity/community politics shtick.
    - They need to remember that it is what you do and not how you describe yourself which tells voters what your values are.
    - They need to stop behaving as if anyone who disagrees with them is evil.
    - They need to remember that decency and fairness and honesty are the monopoly of no-one.

    Now it's MY turn to compliment you on an outstanding post. However, Frank Field and Kate Hoey do not a party make!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,088
    New Thread
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