These reports on intimidation by lefties of voters reminds me of the behaviour of the left wing during my student days (a long time ago). It's something that irrevocably made me a right wing (Tory) voter.
In response to SO (fpt): "The wealthiest have never had it so good. QE, rising stock markets, booming property prices, low interest rates. If you are earning in the top rate band and are asset rich the last few years have been fantastic. If you are paying a bit more tax, you are not noticing it. As you say, below that level it is much, much harder. "
As I said, I am not whinging. But I do notice the extra tax I pay. I have gone through various redundancy rounds at my firm since 2007 and have suffered real pay falls so every penny has to be saved for possible bad times. Any money taken in tax is money not available for the "Rainy Day Fund". And my savings have been depleted in real terms by inflation and low interest rates, interest rates kept low to save the imprudent who over-borrowed and over-lent from the consequences of their folly.
And while @Roger may think that a house brings wealth, mine does not. It costs me: repairs, maintenance, insurance, etc. It brings me no income and will only bring me any wealth when/if I sell it, at which point I may be rich (depending on what house prices are doing then).
I do not - unlike Labour - assume that a number before it is actually earned equals real wealth.
I am better off than many and realise that I need to pay my fair share but let's not pretend that somehow people like me haven't been targeted by the Coalition government and won't be targeted even more by Labour. We are wallets to be picked. It is infuriating that those who do the right thing: don't over-borrow, save, work hard etc are the ones who are punished.
Presumably you think it is wrong for the Tories to say Ed Miliband is a millionaire then?
My point relates to those individuals at the very top and to big multinationals. They really have never had it so good and voters can see it.
Yes but the reason they have never had it so good is due to government policy since 2007, from all parties. It is not the Tories fault that the asset rich have had excellent investment opportunities, or that in many cases these people can afford the best accountants and can reside flexibly for tax purposes.
We need to take a pragmatic approach to these people, and ensure we maximise the tax from them. I have a problem with Ed s approach as he will reduce relative poverty by ousting the top 1000 earners. The fact we would lose both their own tax and any related businesses doesn't seem to have occurred to him.
"And while @Roger may think that a house brings wealth, mine does not. It costs me: repairs, maintenance, insurance, etc. It brings me no income and will only bring me any wealth when/if I sell it, at which point I may be rich (depending on what house prices are doing then)."
Do you believe that only an asset that produces an income can be called wealth? If so the same would apply to your Ferrari your house in Tuscany your diamonds or your Van Dyke.
None produce income but as with all assets they are saleable or can be borrowed against. Rent a smaller house and buy an annuity with the change.
I know several people who have sold their London homes or even traded down do they can buy a second home in Italy France or Spain. If you want an income you could even rent them out
I don't live in your elevated circles, Roger. I don't have Ferraris and diamonds and Van Dycks.
Borrowing money is adding debt. It needs to be paid back and interest has to be paid, out of income. Not a good idea in my book.
And my house is for my family: all of them. All of it is occupied. It is our home. It costs me and the money I spend on it comes out of my income, which I earn. My home is not something to be traded in order to buy a Tuscan villa. I do not share the mores of the Polly Toynbees of this world.
When I sell I will have money in the bank which will then need to be spent on some other home. If is smaller and costs less I will - then - have real wealth which I can spend.
It is attitudes like yours which have led this country to having an economy which sometimes seems based around a financial services sector rather too full of shysters and crooks and people buying and selling poky little Victorian homes to each other at ludicrous prices. An economy much like that prior to 2010 under Labour. It is not sustainable.
@GuidoFawkes: Another marginal seat says CCHQ have told 'em to not enter data into VoteSource. Database has crashed.
God, it's farcical.
Jeez, not this one again! They had the same problem last time with the old system. I might volunteer my services in 2020, do they really not have someone that can set up a scalable and robust database infrastructure?
Every bit of IT that CCHQ has ever tried to introduce has been an unmitigated disaster. Extraordinary that this is still a problem.
How hard can it be to create an SQL database with a web interface?
I'm not sure that half the problem isn't that they try to create one, reinventing the wheel every time. Much better to start with an off the shelf CRM platform (Salesforce, MS Dynamics etc) and adapt that to their canvassing model.
My guess is that they've not done enough testing on it under the election day load, and probably haven't discovered the edge cases where one button pressed can cause chaos - someone suggested earlier that it could be as simple as someone hit print on the whole DB (probably 20 million records) to a single printer. That might take a couple of minutes when there's no other load on the system but in the melee of election day it could be what tips the server over the edge.
Certainly very very brave call...in line with Rod's prediction last night, which he said was based upon Tories winning by 4%.
Can't see how it is possible myself, even if you believe that pollsters under-estimate Tories by 1-2% e.g. Euros.
In the Euros they were under for Con but way over for Lab (however the Con pensioner vote may be responsible for that)
That is very, very bold though. There seem to be two schools of thought at the moment: 1. UNS means Lab most seats 2. Polls off & low swing in midlands: Con most seats
Democratic duty complete; felt particularly apt today with the 70th anniversary of VE Day remembering those who sacrificed so much for our freedom.
It was the teatime rush, but still over 20 queued up outside the polling station. No tellers, pretty safe Labour seat, although I did have a Conservative leaflet through the door today (the only one) which was surprising. Perhaps their ground game isn't so bad?
Off for a power nap before an all nighter. Sticking with my prediction of Conservative 304, Labour 250; probably more in hope than expectation.
Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that.
There's about to be a massive dose of reality coming for the social media generation of lefties, most of whom think that only 1% of the population need to pay any more in taxes in order for everyone else to have more sweeties.
Just the bankers and billionaires will pay more tax. What happens when we have a French style exodus of the entrepreneurs.
The drop of the FTSE today is a small taste of what will happen if Labour get in. I'm pretty sure that the majority of voters don't realise what impact this will have on what ever pension savings they have, or the impact on annuity returns.
I still can't believe that in the privacy of the voting cubicle, people will put their cross on Labour.
Rejigged my meagre pension pot a few weeks back. Nabavi has warned all and sundry on here about the effect on Sterling anyway
Future mythology prediction: it's going to come down to the Russell Brand moment. There has to be a story that everyone believes they remember being aware of at the time, and there aren't many candidates in this campaign. So if the Tories managed to pull it out of the bag (Coalition 2.0) it'll be because Ed cemented perceptions of his joke politician persona by crawling to Russell. If Labour's late movement in the polls translates into a win, it'll be down to the moment that Cameron dismissed Brand and all of those who follow him as a joke, crystallising the consistent impression of disdain for large swathes of the electorate that started by dodging debates and sticking with the softest of sofa interviews.
Of course only one of these narratives will be remembered, and we'll all nod knowingly and say how we remembered it well as a turning point.
If Ed loses, I think #edstone will be the enduring LOL moment.
If Ed wins, then the monuments will get bigger and bigger at every election.
It's thought the Easter island civilisation died out from putting all its resources into monumental masonry. Perhaps that is our fate.
Yes. They deforested the island for a start. I believe that the bickering tribes fought wars where they ate their prisoners. As for Brand - who do we think best of? Miliband for prostituting himself and playing up to Brand in the name gurning for votes. Or Cameron for, well - not?
Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that.
There's about to be a massive dose of reality coming for the social media generation of lefties, most of whom think that only 1% of the population need to pay any more in taxes in order for everyone else to have more sweeties.
Just the bankers and billionaires will pay more tax. What happens when we have a French style exodus of the entrepreneurs.
Someone else with more money will pay. Won't they? What, everybody left behind will have to make up the shortfall? Oops.
Greens doing very well in Canterbury (most likely in the student dominated wards), turnout very high - especially among younger and first time voters. UKIP holding well, too.
Certainly very very brave call...in line with Rod's prediction last night, which he said was based upon Tories winning by 4%.
Can't see how it is possible myself, even if you believe that pollsters under-estimate Tories by 1-2% e.g. Euros.
A sudden last minute swing to Labour seems unlikely, the trend would suggest a 2 point lead for the Conservatives based on prior polls, I don't put more faith in last handful of polls over that of all the prior ones.
If this is how it ends up then the Tories will be delighted. Labour in opposition will have to side with the SNP+LD to try and vote down government measures.
If this turns out to be the case then the Tories will take a minority government and just avoid the EU referendum altogether.
"@thomasknox: As polls show a late swing to Labour, spin doctors across London are saying "OK, next time we do our OWN 8ft high limestone Policy Obelisk""
LOL!!!
Roger did you do that 'Are you still killing weeds?' advert? Brilliant! A good 9/10.
Greens doing very well in Canterbury (most likely in the student dominated wards), turnout very high - especially among younger and first time voters. UKIP holding well, too.
As for Thanet South - nobody knows.
People forget that Canterbury is packed with students. To what extent does this spill into other Kent seats - on the assumption that they would be anti kipper.
Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that.
There's about to be a massive dose of reality coming for the social media generation of lefties, most of whom think that only 1% of the population need to pay any more in taxes in order for everyone else to have more sweeties.
Just the bankers and billionaires will pay more tax. What happens when we have a French style exodus of the entrepreneurs.
Well, 'Relative' poverty will fall, innit? Just like it did in 2009.
France has demonstrated exactly what will happen. All the entrepreneurs in London will say hello to (in order of longitude) Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Tokyo, New York, Caribbean - all of these are financial centres with generally lower personal and corporate taxes than London.
Gosh some of the comments on here are crazy. Absurd defeatism and negativity from the right and silly tribal taunts from the left. And this for an election which will still very likely produce a hung parliament - so no clear winner. After 5 years of difficult times for many on average incomes or less, with little growth for much of the time and some tax rises. Yet roughly the same % will be voting Tory/Labour again in E & W. I'm disappointed that the Coalition is not getting the credit it deserves, but there is no ringing endorsement of the left here either.
The big losers, as always, will be ordinary folk who, as always, will be disappointed when little changes. Twas ever thus.
This is right. The polling suggests either party could win the popular vote and or most seats. The Tories will win as many votes as 2010 or pretty close either way. And this despite Ukip taking a fair chunk of the right wing vote.
I hope the Tories win but if they don't....thats democracy. To hear some of the comments from both sides you'd think it was 1997 revisited. Lets wait and see what happens. I'd imagine if Ed does become PM its going to be a very rough ride for him. It may also focus the future voting intentions of those who will inadvertently have allowed him to be elected.
"what are the best hopes for SLAB to hold a seat? Edinburgh South and East Lothian? "
Edinburgh South. A very talented and hard working MP who is in with a very good chance. Look out also for Aberdeen South.
Aberdeen South? Cannot see any way Labour will hold it. This used to be a Tory seat and is a 4 way marginal now with the Labour vote the softest of the 4.
This is a really strange election in Scotland. It is even a non election. Just been walking back from meeting in Central Glasgow. Got stopped twice, once to be asked who my internet provider was and the second time to support a petition on animal testing. There were a few SNP cars around earlier but even they are trying to keep a low profile now.
What does this all mean? Who knows but Scotland is not yet in the bag for the SNP.
After the splendours of the Indy ref it all feels a little low key. we have been ruined.
Aye, spoilt for life. No intimidating marching mobs of women and bairns with SNP balloons this time. The Annan thing seems to have been made up pish for all one can tell, and there is just the odd momentary alleged excitement in Dundee:
Greens doing very well in Canterbury (most likely in the student dominated wards), turnout very high - especially among younger and first time voters. UKIP holding well, too.
As for Thanet South - nobody knows.
Thought yesterday you said it was Labour sweeping Canterbury . Methinks you haven't got a clue
Greens doing very well in Canterbury (most likely in the student dominated wards), turnout very high - especially among younger and first time voters. UKIP holding well, too.
As for Thanet South - nobody knows.
People forget that Canterbury is packed with students. To what extent does this spill into other Kent seats - on the assumption that they would be anti kipper.
I bet I'm not the only UKip-Green "hoverer" this GE
If police were in Tower Hamlets in numbers (And I hope they were) why are there not at least four coppers visible at these polling stations and advising that TWO is the MAXIMUM number of tellers allowed outside.
These reports on intimidation by lefties of voters reminds me of the behaviour of the left wing during my student days (a long time ago). It's something that irrevocably made me a right wing (Tory) voter.
The drop of the FTSE today is a small taste of what will happen if Labour get in. I'm pretty sure that the majority of voters don't realise what impact this will have on what ever pension savings they have, or the impact on annuity returns.
I still can't believe that in the privacy of the voting cubicle, people will put their cross on Labour.
Rejigged my meagre pension pot a few weeks back. Nabavi has warned all and sundry on here about the effect on Sterling anyway
The most I can add is that I bought my holiday Euros weeks ago once I realised the possibility of leaving it late might be under a Labour govt.
I don't know much about politicalbetting, but surely we should expect the betting markets to move closer to the polls up to the exit poll as people cover themselves? They are not then moving to anything beyond what the polls are suggesting surely? It is not as though they are suggesting a Labour majority...or are they?!
If Labour get in, I hope that everyone ends up paying more - lots more - tax. If people want all these public services they say they do, then they need to put their money in their pockets to pay for them.
Too many people think that someone else can pay; too many people think that their treasured public service must not be cut.
The left have rightly said that the Tories sometimes give the impression that the poor and the disabled should pay for the deficit. And there is a germ of truth in that. But when the Tories tried to limit the tax relief enjoyed by the very rich on their charitable donations, remember the howls of rage from not just the rich but the charities and the theatres and art galleries and other luvvie bastions. Somehow they didn't want to make any sacrifice; they too thought they were a special case and should not be cut. Remember all the wailing from those on £60K p.a. at the loss of child benefit.
Maybe I'm cynical, but when it comes to it, not many people are really willing to pay more tax or suffer a loss of funding or a cut in service, whatever they may say.
Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that.
There's about to be a massive dose of reality coming for the social media generation of lefties, most of whom think that only 1% of the population need to pay any more in taxes in order for everyone else to have more sweeties.
Just the bankers and billionaires will pay more tax. What happens when we have a French style exodus of the entrepreneurs.
"what are the best hopes for SLAB to hold a seat? Edinburgh South and East Lothian? "
Edinburgh South. A very talented and hard working MP who is in with a very good chance. Look out also for Aberdeen South.
Aberdeen South? Cannot see any way Labour will hold it. This used to be a Tory seat and is a 4 way marginal now with the Labour vote the softest of the 4.
This is a really strange election in Scotland. It is even a non election. Just been walking back from meeting in Central Glasgow. Got stopped twice, once to be asked who my internet provider was and the second time to support a petition on animal testing. There were a few SNP cars around earlier but even they are trying to keep a low profile now.
What does this all mean? Who knows but Scotland is not yet in the bag for the SNP.
After the splendours of the Indy ref it all feels a little low key. we have been ruined.
Aye, spoilt for life. No intimidating marching mobs of women and bairns with SNP balloons this time. The Annan thing seems to have been made up pish for all one can tell, and there is just the odd momentary alleged excitement in Dundee:
Just a daftie. Labour stickers on his hat, but i wont class all Labour supporters the same.
Quite so. Though it doesn't work the other way in the Unionist Weltanschauung - remember how Mr Salmond was accused of personally orchestrating Mr Farage's leftie/Labour student type welcome committee in Edinburgh?
These reports on intimidation by lefties of voters reminds me of the behaviour of the left wing during my student days (a long time ago). It's something that irrevocably made me a right wing (Tory) voter.
The left has remainined silent when Tory and UKIP members/supporters have been attacked and had their property vandalised. Then they whine about SNP intimidation....
If Labour get in, I hope that everyone ends up paying more - lots more - tax. If people want all these public services they say they do, then they need to put their money in their pockets to pay for them.
Too many people think that someone else can pay; too many people think that their treasured public service must not be cut.
The left have rightly said that the Tories sometimes give the impression that the poor and the disabled should pay for the deficit. And there is a germ of truth in that. But when the Tories tried to limit the tax relief enjoyed by the very rich on their charitable donations, remember the howls of rage from not just the rich but the charities and the theatres and art galleries and other luvvie bastions. Somehow they didn't want to make any sacrifice; they too thought they were a special case and should not be cut. Remember all the wailing from those on £60K p.a. at the loss of child benefit.
Maybe I'm cynical, but when it comes to it, not many people are really willing to pay more tax or suffer a loss of funding or a cut in service, whatever they may say.
The Arts and media seem to have thrived despite the recession, low hanging fruit.
Yes, we do need to be pragmatic - all of us, including the mega-rich. Where will they all end up, as they seek to avoid paying over money that they can never hope to spend? What do they think will end up happening if wealth is concentrated in an ever smaller number of hands? I agree that Ed does not have the solutions, but the Tories do not either. When I look at what they are proposing on the selling off of social housing, the dramatic raising of the IHT thresholds, the huge cuts to child and working tax credits that they will have to implement to reach their fiscal targets, and so on, it worries me greatly.
Yes, we do need to be pragmatic - all of us, including the mega-rich. Where will they all end up, as they seek to avoid paying over money that they can never hope to spend? What do they think will end up happening if wealth is concentrated in an ever smaller number of hands? I agree that Ed does not have the solutions, but the Tories do not either. When I look at what they are proposing on the selling off of social housing, the dramatic raising of the IHT thresholds, the huge cuts to child and working tax credits that they will have to implement to reach their fiscal targets, and so on, it worries me greatly.
the dramatic raising of the IHT thresholds, the huge cuts to child and working tax credits that they will have to implement to reach their fiscal targets, and so on, it worries me greatly.
Greens doing very well in Canterbury (most likely in the student dominated wards), turnout very high - especially among younger and first time voters. UKIP holding well, too.
As for Thanet South - nobody knows.
People forget that Canterbury is packed with students. To what extent does this spill into other Kent seats - on the assumption that they would be anti kipper.
I bet I'm not the only UKip-Green "hoverer" this GE
Kent is very Kipper. There will be a few second-places in safe Tory seats. All ready to be picked off in 2020 ;-)
Darling Acting Returning Officer Q&A as reported by Northern Echo
How did this happen?
The ballot papers are printed by polling station to ensure that each station has enough papers for voters in that area. Whessoe polling station had papers for the Darlington and Sedgefield parliamentary constituencies.
There are five candidates in Sedgefield and six in Darlington. The guillotine of the ballot papers for the Darlington constituency was set in error for the size of the ballot paper for Sedgefield constituency and therefore the last candidate was cut off the paper. This was not picked up by us in our checking process.
Are you attempting to contact those 89 voters to allow them to re-cast their votes?
No, the 89 votes will be counted as they are. They are mixed with other papers in the box and to pull the relevant papers would risk breaking the confidentiality of the ballot box.
Will this mistake invalidate the result, prompting a need for a speedy by-election?
The election result will stand unless it is challenged. If it is, a court will decide whether the result will stand.
Who is to blame?
The Acting Returning Officer is responsible for the conduct of the general election.
Can we confirm that it’s Whessoe?
The only polling station affected was the Whessoe Village Polling station and the Harrowgate Hill ward within Darlington constituency.
Was it four hours before it was spotted?
Concerns were raised shortly after 10am, once we established the facts, new ballot papers were issued.
Will those 89 votes be counted?
Yes.
Will there be a recount?
Not automatically, it depends on what happens at the count.
Are the 89 ballots spoiled?
We don’t know until we open the ballot box.
Why did it take so long to spot?
Unfortunately, as stated above, the error wasn’t picked up at the checking stage.
Have all of the other polling stations been contacted to ensure the ballot papers are correct?
Yes, all of the other polling stations have ballot papers with all of the names
If police were in Tower Hamlets in numbers (And I hope they were) why are there not at least four coppers visible at these polling stations and advising that TWO is the MAXIMUM number of tellers allowed outside.
Darling Acting Returning Officer Q&A as reported by Northern Echo
How did this happen?
The ballot papers are printed by polling station to ensure that each station has enough papers for voters in that area. Whessoe polling station had papers for the Darlington and Sedgefield parliamentary constituencies.
There are five candidates in Sedgefield and six in Darlington. The guillotine of the ballot papers for the Darlington constituency was set in error for the size of the ballot paper for Sedgefield constituency and therefore the last candidate was cut off the paper. This was not picked up by us in our checking process.
Are you attempting to contact those 89 voters to allow them to re-cast their votes?
No, the 89 votes will be counted as they are. They are mixed with other papers in the box and to pull the relevant papers would risk breaking the confidentiality of the ballot box.
Will this mistake invalidate the result, prompting a need for a speedy by-election?
The election result will stand unless it is challenged. If it is, a court will decide whether the result will stand.
Who is to blame?
The Acting Returning Officer is responsible for the conduct of the general election.
Can we confirm that it’s Whessoe?
The only polling station affected was the Whessoe Village Polling station and the Harrowgate Hill ward within Darlington constituency.
Was it four hours before it was spotted?
Concerns were raised shortly after 10am, once we established the facts, new ballot papers were issued.
Will those 89 votes be counted?
Yes.
Will there be a recount?
Not automatically, it depends on what happens at the count.
Are the 89 ballots spoiled?
We don’t know until we open the ballot box.
Why did it take so long to spot?
Unfortunately, as stated above, the error wasn’t picked up at the checking stage.
Have all of the other polling stations been contacted to ensure the ballot papers are correct?
Yes, all of the other polling stations have ballot papers with all of the names
If the gap is less than 89 votes, I'd imagine there would be another election.
If police were in Tower Hamlets in numbers (And I hope they were) why are there not at least four coppers visible at these polling stations and advising that TWO is the MAXIMUM number of tellers allowed outside.
Just up the road from me,toller lane station.
I really don't care how it looks but if Galloway is standing anywhere there should be four police officers at every polling station and the Two Teller rule should be enforced strongly.
It looks much worse that our democracy is being reduced to this sort of thing. Although after the Referendum and the mobs of Loyalist bully boys outside polling stations, it's not just Bradford East that has problems.
Twitter is a steady stream of under 30s suddenly realising they can't vote, and there's thousands missing in some uni towns.
If this is caused by the changes in voter registration then it is hardly a surprise. Even Cosmo had an article about it back around Jan/Feb. Even my politically unaware student daughter got the message (not from reading Cosmo - the council sent out a letter).
Yes, we do need to be pragmatic - all of us, including the mega-rich. Where will they all end up, as they seek to avoid paying over money that they can never hope to spend? What do they think will end up happening if wealth is concentrated in an ever smaller number of hands? I agree that Ed does not have the solutions, but the Tories do not either. When I look at what they are proposing on the selling off of social housing, the dramatic raising of the IHT thresholds, the huge cuts to child and working tax credits that they will have to implement to reach their fiscal targets, and so on, it worries me greatly.
the dramatic raising of the IHT thresholds, the huge cuts to child and working tax credits that they will have to implement to reach their fiscal targets, and so on, it worries me greatly.
You're a sucker for scare stories
Indeed so - quite apart from anything else, the people who pay inheritance tax are not the mega rich, or even the moderately rich like the Milibands; it's paid by the beneficiaries of little old ladies who are not smart enough or rich enough to arrange their affairs to avoid it.
And quite why Southam is scared by a policy to increase the supply of social housing is mystifying. I'd have thought Ed's policy of fining housebuilding companies who have the temerity to buy land well in advance so that they can negotiate the planning nightmare ought to scare him more.
Darling Acting Returning Officer Q&A as reported by Northern Echo
How did this happen?
The ballot papers are printed by polling station to ensure that each station has enough papers for voters in that area. Whessoe polling station had papers for the Darlington and Sedgefield parliamentary constituencies.
There are five candidates in Sedgefield and six in Darlington. The guillotine of the ballot papers for the Darlington constituency was set in error for the size of the ballot paper for Sedgefield constituency and therefore the last candidate was cut off the paper. This was not picked up by us in our checking process.
Are you attempting to contact those 89 voters to allow them to re-cast their votes?
No, the 89 votes will be counted as they are. They are mixed with other papers in the box and to pull the relevant papers would risk breaking the confidentiality of the ballot box.
Will this mistake invalidate the result, prompting a need for a speedy by-election?
The election result will stand unless it is challenged. If it is, a court will decide whether the result will stand.
Who is to blame?
The Acting Returning Officer is responsible for the conduct of the general election.
Can we confirm that it’s Whessoe?
The only polling station affected was the Whessoe Village Polling station and the Harrowgate Hill ward within Darlington constituency.
Was it four hours before it was spotted?
Concerns were raised shortly after 10am, once we established the facts, new ballot papers were issued.
Will those 89 votes be counted?
Yes.
Will there be a recount?
Not automatically, it depends on what happens at the count.
Are the 89 ballots spoiled?
We don’t know until we open the ballot box.
Why did it take so long to spot?
Unfortunately, as stated above, the error wasn’t picked up at the checking stage.
Have all of the other polling stations been contacted to ensure the ballot papers are correct?
Yes, all of the other polling stations have ballot papers with all of the names
If the gap is less than 89 votes, I'd imagine there would be another election.
Greens doing very well in Canterbury (most likely in the student dominated wards), turnout very high - especially among younger and first time voters. UKIP holding well, too.
As for Thanet South - nobody knows.
People forget that Canterbury is packed with students. To what extent does this spill into other Kent seats - on the assumption that they would be anti kipper.
Not much-there has been a massive increase in campus accommodation over the last few years. Most students who live off campus live in the town or close by.
Not many live in Thanet S.
I will try and update on Thanet S shortly-just got home from work and about to vote and then help for a couple of hours.
Seriously I'm not sure SNP will come through - it could be LAB/LD which in my view is a better outcome than LAB/SNP
true - steve webb back at pensions would be some solace to my empty wallet!!
My pension arrangements are wrecked by the TORIES' proposals let alone LAB! Oddly enough I received a letter from my employer advising me I would soon reach the new lower lifetime allowance and offering an opt out with cash alternative - and this is BEFORE the effective removal of tax relief on contributions for so called higher earners on the additional rate! (£150,000pa)
I still voted CON as LAB would in the end be far worse with wrecking the economy.
Entirely agree with you re Steve Webb although the idea of providing a standard rate of pension tax relief above 20% is ludicrous.
It would be a pretty serious crime for it to leak.
By section 66A of the 1983 Act, it is an offence to publish an exit poll or anything that might reasonably be taken to be one before the close of polling. Offenders are liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £5,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months. An offence yes, but not a very serious one.
Dinner tonight was a rather nice Spag Bol with lots of garlic bread so that there are enough leftovers for late nights snacks and nibbles in front of the results tonight. And a nice bottle of plonk to wash it all down with.
Greens doing very well in Canterbury (most likely in the student dominated wards), turnout very high - especially among younger and first time voters. UKIP holding well, too.
As for Thanet South - nobody knows.
People forget that Canterbury is packed with students. To what extent does this spill into other Kent seats - on the assumption that they would be anti kipper.
Not much-there has been a massive increase in campus accommodation over the last few years. Most students who live off campus live in the town or close by.
Not many live in Thanet S.
I will try and update on Thanet S shortly-just got home from work and about to vote and then help for a couple of hours.
Isn't there more than one university in and around Canterbury?
Greens doing very well in Canterbury (most likely in the student dominated wards), turnout very high - especially among younger and first time voters. UKIP holding well, too.
As for Thanet South - nobody knows.
Thought yesterday you said it was Labour sweeping Canterbury . Methinks you haven't got a clue
Greens doing very well in Canterbury (most likely in the student dominated wards), turnout very high - especially among younger and first time voters. UKIP holding well, too.
As for Thanet South - nobody knows.
People forget that Canterbury is packed with students. To what extent does this spill into other Kent seats - on the assumption that they would be anti kipper.
Not much-there has been a massive increase in campus accommodation over the last few years. Most students who live off campus live in the town or close by.
Not many live in Thanet S.
I will try and update on Thanet S shortly-just got home from work and about to vote and then help for a couple of hours.
Isn't there more than one university in and around Canterbury?
Entirely agree with you re Steve Webb although the idea of providing a standard rate of pension tax relief above 20% is ludicrous.
Why is it ludicrous? It struck me as quite an innovative and well-targeted idea, which might help in addressing the problem of insufficient saving towards pensions by the less well-off, at no net cost to the taxpayer and being fair to everyone. Worth examining further, anyway.
Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that.
There's about to be a massive dose of reality coming for the social media generation of lefties, most of whom think that only 1% of the population need to pay any more in taxes in order for everyone else to have more sweeties.
Just the bankers and billionaires will pay more tax. What happens when we have a French style exodus of the entrepreneurs.
Well, 'Relative' poverty will fall, innit? Just like it did in 2009.
France has demonstrated exactly what will happen. All the entrepreneurs in London will say hello to (in order of longitude) Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Tokyo, New York, Caribbean - all of these are financial centres with generally lower personal and corporate taxes than London.
Bollox. Just my professional opinion.
Monaco - sunny place for shady people Switzerland - you'll die of boredom Dubai - you bin there? Singapore - dreary as hell Hong Kong - expat community seriously weird and limited Tokyo - they don't like rich foreigners much. Or any foreigners, really. New York - taxes similar to London Caribbean - very niche appeal
The reality is that Miliband probably could put taxes up to 50-60%. Not much more than that, though. The French effect was so dramatic because South Ken was just a train ride away.
It is difficult to see how that would be compatible with EU law. The EU has exclusive competence in the area of monetary policy for states whose currency is the Euro (see TFEU article 3(1)(c)). It is therefore not open to Greece to operate a unilateral monetary policy outside the scope of EU law.
Seriously I'm not sure SNP will come through - it could be LAB/LD which in my view is a better outcome than LAB/SNP
true - steve webb back at pensions would be some solace to my empty wallet!!
My pension arrangements are wrecked by the TORIES' proposals let alone LAB! Oddly enough I received a letter from my employer advising me I would soon reach the new lower lifetime allowance and offering an opt out with cash alternative - and this is BEFORE the effective removal of tax relief on contributions for so called higher earners on the additional rate! (£150,000pa)
I still voted CON as LAB would in the end be far worse with wrecking the economy.
Entirely agree with you re Steve Webb although the idea of providing a standard rate of pension tax relief above 20% is ludicrous.
What have you done with the real @Ave_it and set him free ?!?!?
They are getting frit: UKIPinSandwell @UKIPinSandwell 3h3 hours ago We have reports of Labour activists turning people away at polling stations in #Sandwell if they arrive without a polling card.
They are getting frit: UKIPinSandwell @UKIPinSandwell 3h3 hours ago We have reports of Labour activists turning people away at polling stations in #Sandwell if they arrive without a polling card.
That would be very illogical, as they could easily be Labour voters...
If Labour get in, I hope that everyone ends up paying more - lots more - tax. If people want all these public services they say they do, then they need to put their money in their pockets to pay for them.
Too many people think that someone else can pay; too many people think that their treasured public service must not be cut.
The left have rightly said that the Tories sometimes give the impression that the poor and the disabled should pay for the deficit. And there is a germ of truth in that. But when the Tories tried to limit the tax relief enjoyed by the very rich on their charitable donations, remember the howls of rage from not just the rich but the charities and the theatres and art galleries and other luvvie bastions. Somehow they didn't want to make any sacrifice; they too thought they were a special case and should not be cut. Remember all the wailing from those on £60K p.a. at the loss of child benefit.
Maybe I'm cynical, but when it comes to it, not many people are really willing to pay more tax or suffer a loss of funding or a cut in service, whatever they may say.
The Arts and media seem to have thrived despite the recession, low hanging fruit.
The new team at the Arts Council is really very good.
Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that.
There's about to be a massive dose of reality coming for the social media generation of lefties, most of whom think that only 1% of the population need to pay any more in taxes in order for everyone else to have more sweeties.
Just the bankers and billionaires will pay more tax. What happens when we have a French style exodus of the entrepreneurs.
Well, 'Relative' poverty will fall, innit? Just like it did in 2009.
France has demonstrated exactly what will happen. All the entrepreneurs in London will say hello to (in order of longitude) Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Tokyo, New York, Caribbean - all of these are financial centres with generally lower personal and corporate taxes than London.
Bollox. Just my professional opinion.
Monaco - sunny place for shady people Switzerland - you'll die of boredom Dubai - you bin there? Singapore - dreary as hell Hong Kong - expat community seriously weird and limited Tokyo - they don't like rich foreigners much. Or any foreigners, really. New York - taxes similar to London Caribbean - very niche appeal
The reality is that Miliband probably could put taxes up to 50-60%. Not much more than that, though. The French effect was so dramatic because South Ken was just a train ride away.
...thank you. I get tired of being the only person arguing that self-evident truth. Added to which, on the assumption that many entrepreneurs need skilled staff in their own location, there's a number of places on that list where you're going to struggle to recreate your (presumably successful) wealth-creating business. Unless, of course, "entrepreneur" is a euphemism for "possessor of large sums of unearned wealth".
Only 53% turnout so far in Lanarkshire based on 2 polling booths. This is heading for 65% turnout which means 20% of voters who said they would vote in the pollls are not going to. Who are those voters. My hunch the young and the poor as ever. Probably bad for SNP.
The worst thing for me would be if CON tacticals put the LDs into govt with LAB. I'd... I'd... I'd... I dunno what I'd do. Have a drink, prob.
There is certainly a risk that tactical Tories in Scotland could save a few SLAB and SLID seats, I don't think SLAB are reciprocating though. Should this handful of seats end up putting Ed into No 10 then that would be fair punishment for the Tories/MSM trying to interfere with the democratic process, some of the tactical voting guides are laughable.
Yes, we do need to be pragmatic - all of us, including the mega-rich. Where will they all end up, as they seek to avoid paying over money that they can never hope to spend? What do they think will end up happening if wealth is concentrated in an ever smaller number of hands? I agree that Ed does not have the solutions, but the Tories do not either. When I look at what they are proposing on the selling off of social housing, the dramatic raising of the IHT thresholds, the huge cuts to child and working tax credits that they will have to implement to reach their fiscal targets, and so on, it worries me greatly.
Child benefit only came in relatively recently and at the beginning was not even given for the first child. So let's not exxaggerate that its disappearance would herald the start of plague, famine and pestilence across the land, which seems to be the default reaction of some.
Personally, I'd have child benefit only for the first child and only for those on the lowest rate of tax. If you earn enough to pay a higher rate of tax no earthly reason IMO why you need any sort of benefit.
I too am worried about the social housing proposals and the IHT proposals seem a bit barmy because they act as a disincentive to older people living alone in a large property downsizing, which seems daft.
But - realistically - given how big the welfare budget is, we are going to have to focus on real need - and be generous to those - rather than hand out money to all sorts of groups who really don't need it.
Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that.
There's about to be a massive dose of reality coming for the social media generation of lefties, most of whom think that only 1% of the population need to pay any more in taxes in order for everyone else to have more sweeties.
Just the bankers and billionaires will pay more tax. What happens when we have a French style exodus of the entrepreneurs.
Well, 'Relative' poverty will fall, innit? Just like it did in 2009.
France has demonstrated exactly what will happen. All the entrepreneurs in London will say hello to (in order of longitude) Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Tokyo, New York, Caribbean - all of these are financial centres with generally lower personal and corporate taxes than London.
Bollox. Just my professional opinion.
Monaco - sunny place for shady people Switzerland - you'll die of boredom Dubai - you bin there? Singapore - dreary as hell Hong Kong - expat community seriously weird and limited Tokyo - they don't like rich foreigners much. Or any foreigners, really. New York - taxes similar to London Caribbean - very niche appeal
The reality is that Miliband probably could put taxes up to 50-60%. Not much more than that, though. The French effect was so dramatic because South Ken was just a train ride away.
Seriously I'm not sure SNP will come through - it could be LAB/LD which in my view is a better outcome than LAB/SNP
true - steve webb back at pensions would be some solace to my empty wallet!!
My pension arrangements are wrecked by the TORIES' proposals let alone LAB! Oddly enough I received a letter from my employer advising me I would soon reach the new lower lifetime allowance and offering an opt out with cash alternative - and this is BEFORE the effective removal of tax relief on contributions for so called higher earners on the additional rate! (£150,000pa)
I still voted CON as LAB would in the end be far worse with wrecking the economy.
Entirely agree with you re Steve Webb although the idea of providing a standard rate of pension tax relief above 20% is ludicrous.
What have you done with the real @Ave_it and set him free ?!?!?
Ave It's Lifetime Allowance has been hijacked!
Hope your ARSE is right Jack but I'm a bit worried!
Only 53% turnout so far in Lanarkshire based on 2 polling booths. This is heading for 65% turnout which means 20% of voters who said they would vote in the pollls are not going to. Who are those voters. My hunch the young and the poor as ever. Probably bad for SNP.
Only 53% turnout so far in Lanarkshire based on 2 polling booths. This is heading for 65% turnout which means 20% of voters who said they would vote in the pollls are not going to. Who are those voters. My hunch the young and the poor as ever. Probably bad for SNP.
If the gap is less than 89 votes, I'd imagine there would be another election.
It does indicate that there wasn't a UKIP VI in the first 89 electors and the claims of a UKIP northern surge may be somewhat exaggerated.
Not necessarily. There could have been "lukewarm" Kippers who simply assumed Ukip wasn't standing in their constituency when they saw no Ukip option on the ballot paper.
Comments
Are the worldwide markets also trembling at the thought?
We need to take a pragmatic approach to these people, and ensure we maximise the tax from them. I have a problem with Ed s approach as he will reduce relative poverty by ousting the top 1000 earners. The fact we would lose both their own tax and any related businesses doesn't seem to have occurred to him.
Can't see how it is possible myself, even if you believe that pollsters under-estimate Tories by 1-2% e.g. Euros.
Borrowing money is adding debt. It needs to be paid back and interest has to be paid, out of income. Not a good idea in my book.
And my house is for my family: all of them. All of it is occupied. It is our home. It costs me and the money I spend on it comes out of my income, which I earn. My home is not something to be traded in order to buy a Tuscan villa. I do not share the mores of the Polly Toynbees of this world.
When I sell I will have money in the bank which will then need to be spent on some other home. If is smaller and costs less I will - then - have real wealth which I can spend.
It is attitudes like yours which have led this country to having an economy which sometimes seems based around a financial services sector rather too full of shysters and crooks and people buying and selling poky little Victorian homes to each other at ludicrous prices. An economy much like that prior to 2010 under Labour. It is not sustainable.
My guess is that they've not done enough testing on it under the election day load, and probably haven't discovered the edge cases where one button pressed can cause chaos - someone suggested earlier that it could be as simple as someone hit print on the whole DB (probably 20 million records) to a single printer. That might take a couple of minutes when there's no other load on the system but in the melee of election day it could be what tips the server over the edge.
That is very, very bold though. There seem to be two schools of thought at the moment:
1. UNS means Lab most seats
2. Polls off & low swing in midlands: Con most seats
One of these will be utterly shattered.
It was the teatime rush, but still over 20 queued up outside the polling station. No tellers, pretty safe Labour seat, although I did have a Conservative leaflet through the door today (the only one) which was surprising. Perhaps their ground game isn't so bad?
Off for a power nap before an all nighter. Sticking with my prediction of Conservative 304, Labour 250; probably more in hope than expectation.
As for Brand - who do we think best of? Miliband for prostituting himself and playing up to Brand in the name gurning for votes. Or Cameron for, well - not?
Greens doing very well in Canterbury (most likely in the student dominated wards), turnout very high - especially among younger and first time voters. UKIP holding well, too.
As for Thanet South - nobody knows.
If this is how it ends up then the Tories will be delighted. Labour in opposition will have to side with the SNP+LD to try and vote down government measures.
If this turns out to be the case then the Tories will take a minority government and just avoid the EU referendum altogether.
http://www.thenational.scot/news/police-scotland-deny-unionist-reports-they-warned-of-snp-aggression-at-polls.2731
However there is one incident where police did have to intervene. Labour are guilty.
http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1437541/dundee-fight.jpg
Confused again so apologies.
France has demonstrated exactly what will happen. All the entrepreneurs in London will say hello to (in order of longitude) Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Tokyo, New York, Caribbean - all of these are financial centres with generally lower personal and corporate taxes than London.
Lab into 4.4.
Still if betting markets have it right Con most seats still most likely
I hope the Tories win but if they don't....thats democracy.
To hear some of the comments from both sides you'd think it was 1997 revisited.
Lets wait and see what happens. I'd imagine if Ed does become PM its going to be a very rough ride for him. It may also focus the future voting intentions of those who will inadvertently have allowed him to be elected.
https://twitter.com/ukrespectparty/status/596344939207864322
If police were in Tower Hamlets in numbers (And I hope they were) why are there not at least four coppers visible at these polling stations and advising that TWO is the MAXIMUM number of tellers allowed outside.
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/ge2015/6444611/Clot-red-handed-Labour-Jims-last-push-as-fan-pops-question-to-Nicola.html
Methinks you cannot read.
Too many people think that someone else can pay; too many people think that their treasured public service must not be cut.
The left have rightly said that the Tories sometimes give the impression that the poor and the disabled should pay for the deficit. And there is a germ of truth in that. But when the Tories tried to limit the tax relief enjoyed by the very rich on their charitable donations, remember the howls of rage from not just the rich but the charities and the theatres and art galleries and other luvvie bastions. Somehow they didn't want to make any sacrifice; they too thought they were a special case and should not be cut. Remember all the wailing from those on £60K p.a. at the loss of child benefit.
Maybe I'm cynical, but when it comes to it, not many people are really willing to pay more tax or suffer a loss of funding or a cut in service, whatever they may say.
It's all going to be ok..... Ave it is here!
You know, the guy who persuaded me to put money into Shadsy's beer fund this afternoon.
Will we see LAB maj on SPIN by then?!
Seriously I'm not sure SNP will come through - it could be LAB/LD which in my view is a better outcome than LAB/SNP
You're a sucker for scare stories
Patrick O'Flynn retweeted
Jack@imjackyeah·5m5 minutes ago
Betting company Ladbrokes suspends betting on UKIP in Thurrock.
How did this happen?
The ballot papers are printed by polling station to ensure that each station has enough papers for voters in that area. Whessoe polling station had papers for the Darlington and Sedgefield parliamentary constituencies.
There are five candidates in Sedgefield and six in Darlington. The guillotine of the ballot papers for the Darlington constituency was set in error for the size of the ballot paper for Sedgefield constituency and therefore the last candidate was cut off the paper. This was not picked up by us in our checking process.
Are you attempting to contact those 89 voters to allow them to re-cast their votes?
No, the 89 votes will be counted as they are. They are mixed with other papers in the box and to pull the relevant papers would risk breaking the confidentiality of the ballot box.
Will this mistake invalidate the result, prompting a need for a speedy by-election?
The election result will stand unless it is challenged. If it is, a court will decide whether the result will stand.
Who is to blame?
The Acting Returning Officer is responsible for the conduct of the general election.
Can we confirm that it’s Whessoe?
The only polling station affected was the Whessoe Village Polling station and the Harrowgate Hill ward within Darlington constituency.
Was it four hours before it was spotted?
Concerns were raised shortly after 10am, once we established the facts, new ballot papers were issued.
Will those 89 votes be counted?
Yes.
Will there be a recount?
Not automatically, it depends on what happens at the count.
Are the 89 ballots spoiled?
We don’t know until we open the ballot box.
Why did it take so long to spot?
Unfortunately, as stated above, the error wasn’t picked up at the checking stage.
Have all of the other polling stations been contacted to ensure the ballot papers are correct?
Yes, all of the other polling stations have ballot papers with all of the names
It looks much worse that our democracy is being reduced to this sort of thing. Although after the Referendum and the mobs of Loyalist bully boys outside polling stations, it's not just Bradford East that has problems.
And quite why Southam is scared by a policy to increase the supply of social housing is mystifying. I'd have thought Ed's policy of fining housebuilding companies who have the temerity to buy land well in advance so that they can negotiate the planning nightmare ought to scare him more.
Most students who live off campus live in the town or close by.
Not many live in Thanet S.
I will try and update on Thanet S shortly-just got home from work and about to vote and then help for a couple of hours.
Telegraph News @TelegraphNews 8m8 minutes ago
Greece could use 'parallel currency' as desperation grows | @szupingc http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11588763/Greece-could-use-parallel-currency-as-desperation-grows.html …
I still voted CON as LAB would in the end be far worse with wrecking the economy.
Entirely agree with you re Steve Webb although the idea of providing a standard rate of pension tax relief above 20% is ludicrous.
Now.... BBC or Sky?
Emily Thornberry stood in 2001 and ran Brazier too close for his own comfort.
BTW he is one Tory that needs to go-dreadful person.
Monaco - sunny place for shady people
Switzerland - you'll die of boredom
Dubai - you bin there?
Singapore - dreary as hell
Hong Kong - expat community seriously weird and limited
Tokyo - they don't like rich foreigners much. Or any foreigners, really.
New York - taxes similar to London
Caribbean - very niche appeal
The reality is that Miliband probably could put taxes up to 50-60%. Not much more than that, though. The French effect was so dramatic because South Ken was just a train ride away.
UKIPinSandwell @UKIPinSandwell 3h3 hours ago
We have reports of Labour activists turning people away at polling stations in #Sandwell if they arrive without a polling card.
How's Istanbul btw?
Personally, I'd have child benefit only for the first child and only for those on the lowest rate of tax. If you earn enough to pay a higher rate of tax no earthly reason IMO why you need any sort of benefit.
I too am worried about the social housing proposals and the IHT proposals seem a bit barmy because they act as a disincentive to older people living alone in a large property downsizing, which seems daft.
But - realistically - given how big the welfare budget is, we are going to have to focus on real need - and be generous to those - rather than hand out money to all sorts of groups who really don't need it.
Hope your ARSE is right Jack but I'm a bit worried!