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  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    chestnut said:

    3,500 have dropped from the electoral roll in Cardiff Central and 5,000 from Ceredigion apparently..

    Students?
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Danny565 said:

    kle4 said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @The_Apocalypse
    With the pasting Ed was getting in the press, I would suggest that "shy Labour" might also be in the equation?

    Wouldn't surprise me. Perhaps picking that up finally was what led to the convergence.
    The one thing that's still niggling at me is George Eaton (famed for puting the most positive gloss for Miliband on anything) has confirmed that both the Tories' and Labour's internal projections from canvassing as of yesterday showed the Tories having most seats. Could they be completely wrong??
    Given how hard this election has been to call, yes, they could be wrong. I'd be shocked if all pollsters were wrong, tbh. In that case we may as well not take any notice of the polls at all after this GE.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited May 2015
    Coalition down a touch on spreads compared to this morning: spin/spreadex both 313.5, lg 313 (same makeup all 3, tories 287ish, LDs 26/27)
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    OllyT said:

    kjohnw said:

    CD13 said:

    Ooops! Posted on previous thread by mistake.

    Ed in power won't change a lot, assuming the lights don't go out. Energy bills will rise to pay for the green initiatives and everyone's taxes will rise a little to pay for the Gaelgeld, but look on the bright side.

    Scots will be better off, and our carbon footprint will disappear. And everyone else will be equal so any misery will be shared. And there will no more more Islamophobia allowed.

    And lots of people will feel better about themselves.

    yeah Ed is going to ban Charlie Hebdo, and we wont be able to discuss Rotherham without being called Islamophobes, he'll also destroy the free press and freedom of speech, so much to look forward to
    Grow up
    Makes more sense than the original post
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited May 2015
    midwinter said:

    Thanks that's interesting I've heard Seaford is solid for Baker but Lewes town much less so. Sounds like they need ukip to take blue votes.

    Any news from Eastbourne?

    Somewhat similar story. Again it is being very intensely fought. It's an absolute sea of posters! I was helping there over the weekend, and my wife has been there doing phone follow-ups today. I don't have any inside knowledge other than general impression - I think it's probably a LibDem hold (or, rather, a Stephen Lloyd hold), but we shall see.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    Future mythology prediction: it's going to come down to the Russell Brand moment. There has to be a story that everyone believes they remember being aware of at the time, and there aren't many candidates in this campaign. So if the Tories managed to pull it out of the bag (Coalition 2.0) it'll be because Ed cemented perceptions of his joke politician persona by crawling to Russell. If Labour's late movement in the polls translates into a win, it'll be down to the moment that Cameron dismissed Brand and all of those who follow him as a joke, crystallising the consistent impression of disdain for large swathes of the electorate that started by dodging debates and sticking with the softest of sofa interviews.

    Of course only one of these narratives will be remembered, and we'll all nod knowingly and say how we remembered it well as a turning point.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,983
    edited May 2015
    Pulpstar

    "It don't start till 5 though"

    Good luck! As my gambling guru I've got a lot riding on your silky skills.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    midwinter said:

    midwinter said:

    Indeed. I've heard that canvassing in Lewes today has left the Dems sweating. Seepage to Labour and greens apparently. That should have been a certain hold. And may of course still be.

    Lewes looks like being close. It's partly because Maria Caulfield put an enormous amount of effort in early on, at a time when she wasn't getting much support at all from central office (that changed about a year ago). Norman Baker was complacent initially but eventually woke up, and the two sides have been going all out since.
    Thanks that's interesting I've heard Seaford is solid for Baker but Lewes town much less so. Sounds like they need ukip to take blue votes.

    Any news from Eastbourne?
    Seaford has never been solid for Baker . It has always been the most Conservative part of the constituency . UKIP though have supplanted the Conservatives there in recent years . The Lib Dem strength has always been Newhaven and Lewes tho in the latter votes get split in the locals with the Greens and the formidable Independent Ruth O'Kkeeffe getting one vote of almost everyone
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    Scott_P said:

    CD13 said:

    everyone else will be equal so any misery will be shared.

    Repealing the "bedroom tax" will be fun. It came up in one of the debates. Apparently if it applies to some housing and not others it will be subject to judicial review

    @MrJacHart: Each time someone from #Labour asks you about the #BedroomTax, ask them to explain how the Local Housing Allowance they introduced works...
    Yes, the government levelled the playing field between council owned and private rented accommodation paid for with housing benefit, so it's not as simple as simply repealing that change.

    Was there not a poll at the time that, when it was explained exactly what the change was, had quite dramatic support among the public, like 65 or 70%? How many people in the private sector can afford to buy or rent a place with a guest room?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited May 2015
    Polruan said:

    Future mythology prediction:

    Maybe if Ed becomes PM it will become standard practice in future elections to engrave platitudes on huge limestone blocks: "Hell, if it worked for Ed Miliband, it will work for anyone!"
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Polruan said:

    Future mythology prediction: it's going to come down to the Russell Brand moment. There has to be a story that everyone believes they remember being aware of at the time, and there aren't many candidates in this campaign. So if the Tories managed to pull it out of the bag (Coalition 2.0) it'll be because Ed cemented perceptions of his joke politician persona by crawling to Russell. If Labour's late movement in the polls translates into a win, it'll be down to the moment that Cameron dismissed Brand and all of those who follow him as a joke, crystallising the consistent impression of disdain for large swathes of the electorate that started by dodging debates and sticking with the softest of sofa interviews.

    Of course only one of these narratives will be remembered, and we'll all nod knowingly and say how we remembered it well as a turning point.


    If Ed loses, I think #edstone will be the enduring LOL moment.

    If Ed wins, then the monuments will get bigger and bigger at every election.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    kjohnw said:

    CD13 said:

    Ooops! Posted on previous thread by mistake.

    Ed in power won't change a lot, assuming the lights don't go out. Energy bills will rise to pay for the green initiatives and everyone's taxes will rise a little to pay for the Gaelgeld, but look on the bright side.

    Scots will be better off, and our carbon footprint will disappear. And everyone else will be equal so any misery will be shared. And there will no more more Islamophobia allowed.

    And lots of people will feel better about themselves.

    yeah Ed is going to ban Charlie Hebdo, and we wont be able to discuss Rotherham without being called Islamophobes, he'll also destroy the free press and freedom of speech, so much to look forward to
    But segregated rallies and "vote for god, vote for labour" will still be welcome in Ed's world.
    Yeah, but that's, like, umm, completely different. Or something.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713

    @GuidoFawkes: Another marginal seat says CCHQ have told 'em to not enter data into VoteSource. Database has crashed.

    God, it's farcical.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516

    @GuidoFawkes: Another marginal seat says CCHQ have told 'em to not enter data into VoteSource. Database has crashed.

    Anyone else think the Tories want to lose!??
    I suspect their problem is more to do with shit politics than iffy IT
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Polruan said:

    Future mythology prediction: it's going to come down to the Russell Brand moment. There has to be a story that everyone believes they remember being aware of at the time, and there aren't many candidates in this campaign. So if the Tories managed to pull it out of the bag (Coalition 2.0) it'll be because Ed cemented perceptions of his joke politician persona by crawling to Russell. If Labour's late movement in the polls translates into a win, it'll be down to the moment that Cameron dismissed Brand and all of those who follow him as a joke, crystallising the consistent impression of disdain for large swathes of the electorate that started by dodging debates and sticking with the softest of sofa interviews.

    Of course only one of these narratives will be remembered, and we'll all nod knowingly and say how we remembered it well as a turning point.


    If Ed loses, I think #edstone will be the enduring LOL moment.

    If Ed wins, then the monuments will get bigger and bigger at every election.

    It's thought the Easter island civilisation died out from putting all its resources into monumental masonry. Perhaps that is our fate.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    antifrank said:

    I have cast my vote (for the Lib Dems if you must know, though I was havering even in the booth). Islington South & Finsbury was not unduly busy.

    If I may, in the best traditions of PB pedantry: you mean, presumably, wavering.

    'Havering', in Scots, is to talk rubbish discoursively - which you certainly do not, least of all in a Caledonian context.

    Unfortunately its misappropriation means that it is probably going the same way as 'decimate'.



  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    midwinter said:

    midwinter said:

    Indeed. I've heard that canvassing in Lewes today has left the Dems sweating. Seepage to Labour and greens apparently. That should have been a certain hold. And may of course still be.

    Lewes looks like being close. It's partly because Maria Caulfield put an enormous amount of effort in early on, at a time when she wasn't getting much support at all from central office (that changed about a year ago). Norman Baker was complacent initially but eventually woke up, and the two sides have been going all out since.
    Thanks that's interesting I've heard Seaford is solid for Baker but Lewes town much less so. Sounds like they need ukip to take blue votes.

    Any news from Eastbourne?
    Seaford has never been solid for Baker . It has always been the most Conservative part of the constituency . UKIP though have supplanted the Conservatives there in recent years . The Lib Dem strength has always been Newhaven and Lewes tho in the latter votes get split in the locals with the Greens and the formidable Independent Ruth O'Kkeeffe getting one vote of almost everyone

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    7.5.15 LAB 287 (287) CON 272(272) LD 29(29) UKIP 3(3) Others 59(59) (Ed is crap is PM)
    8.4.15 LAB 292 (292) CON 272(271) LD 30(30) UKIP 2(2) Others 54(55) (Ed is crap is PM)
    11.3.15 LAB 290 (295) CON 273(269) LD 30(30) UKIP 3(2) Others 54(54) (Ed is crap is PM)
    10.2.15 LAB 295 (313) CON 268(267) LD 29(29) UKIP 2(2) Others 56(39) (Ed is crap is PM)


    BJESUS Either consistently wrong or right for 3 months.

    Tomorrow tells us which

    Good luck to all those making predictions. It's going to be a long night!
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,097
    My best wishes to all PBers for the big night, especially those involved in running the site (for which, many thanks).
  • hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 664
    Roger said:

    Andrea

    "what are the best hopes for SLAB to hold a seat? Edinburgh South and East Lothian? "

    Edinburgh South. A very talented and hard working MP who is in with a very good chance. Look out also for Aberdeen South.

    Aberdeen South? Cannot see any way Labour will hold it. This used to be a Tory seat and is a 4 way marginal now with the Labour vote the softest of the 4.

    This is a really strange election in Scotland. It is even a non election. Just been walking back from meeting in Central Glasgow. Got stopped twice, once to be asked who my internet provider was and the second time to support a petition on animal testing. There were a few SNP cars around earlier but even they are trying to keep a low profile now.

    What does this all mean? Who knows but Scotland is not yet in the bag for the SNP.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    chestnut said:

    3,500 have dropped from the electoral roll in Cardiff Central and 5,000 from Ceredigion apparently..

    Actually I think it is nearer 11.5k (eleven and a half) dropped off here in Cardiff Central. Almost certainly students might actually be a good thing for the L Dem here Jenny Willott. Whether it's enough is a different question......
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2015
    Just voted, stuck with the yellows. Micky Fab will win easily here.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    I don't think either EdStone or Brand will have had any material impact on the outcome of this election, although they have provided entertainment.

    Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited May 2015
    Sophisticated GOV operations...

    Tottenham Labour ‏@TottenhamLabour 3 h3 ore fa
    The #LammyMobile is now in Seven Sisters with our megaphone to get @DavidLammy re-elected.
  • BaskervilleBaskerville Posts: 391
    Thanks, AndyJS.
  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 891
    Election Game predictions

    Evening all, trust everyone is raring to go, have you all voted yet?!

    Just a quick note to say many thanks to everyone who entered the game, the seat averages were as follows:

    Con 281
    Lab 267
    SNP 46
    Lib Dem 26
    UKIP 3 (if we ignore the player who went for 282 UKIP seats)
    Plaid 3
    Green 1

    To be in government, leading answers:

    Con 52
    Lab 59
    Lib Dem 47
    SNP 19
    DUP 13

    Among the 25 individual seats, Hallam split 92-28 LD-Lab, while Thanet S split 67-51 UKIP-Con.

    Full details available at:

    http://www.electiongame.co.uk/

    Very best wishes to everyone for a profitable/exciting night, enjoy the Finborough Arms if you're going.

    Finally, as you may have seen, Netanyahu's new government will have five parties and a bare 61-59 Knesset majority, while the new Finnish government will be outlined tonight.

    Cheers,

    DC

  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Carnyx said:

    antifrank said:

    I have cast my vote (for the Lib Dems if you must know, though I was havering even in the booth). Islington South & Finsbury was not unduly busy.

    If I may, in the best traditions of PB pedantry: you mean, presumably, wavering.

    'Havering', in Scots, is to talk rubbish discoursively - which you certainly do not, least of all in a Caledonian context.

    Unfortunately its misappropriation means that it is probably going the same way as 'decimate'.



    Decimate could always mean both 90/10 and 10/90. Try hone in on, or reign in of you want to get annoyed about something.

    Or unchartered waters of course.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,477
    AnneJGP said:

    My best wishes to all PBers for the big night, especially those involved in running the site (for which, many thanks).

    Yes, my best wishes too, and especially to all those actively involved in the election process.

    Good luck, whatever your colors.
  • valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 606
    Just got home for a short break after all day on the GOV.
    No inside info, all say is from here in Preseli, is that the Labour GOV is far better than the Tories, as has been the ground war all along. Whether it will be enough to overturn a 4000 majority I doubt, but you can't accuse us of not trying.
  • hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 664
    As for me, still not voted or decided who to vote for if I do.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401

    Polruan said:

    Future mythology prediction: it's going to come down to the Russell Brand moment. There has to be a story that everyone believes they remember being aware of at the time, and there aren't many candidates in this campaign. So if the Tories managed to pull it out of the bag (Coalition 2.0) it'll be because Ed cemented perceptions of his joke politician persona by crawling to Russell. If Labour's late movement in the polls translates into a win, it'll be down to the moment that Cameron dismissed Brand and all of those who follow him as a joke, crystallising the consistent impression of disdain for large swathes of the electorate that started by dodging debates and sticking with the softest of sofa interviews.

    Of course only one of these narratives will be remembered, and we'll all nod knowingly and say how we remembered it well as a turning point.


    If Ed loses, I think #edstone will be the enduring LOL moment.

    If Ed wins, then the monuments will get bigger and bigger at every election.

    Plenty of catching up to do in Scotland ...

    https://twitter.com/search?q=callanish&src=typd
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,983
    edited May 2015
    Casino

    "Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that."

    What do you think is at the heart of it?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Tory mopbile poster lorries galore driving round and parked up in Paignton. Massive picture of Ed,Eck and Nicola with message if you vote LD this is what you will get.

    Saw 3 different ones. Con certainly putting effort in.

    Is Paignton in Torbay constituency?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Roger said:

    Andrea

    "what are the best hopes for SLAB to hold a seat? Edinburgh South and East Lothian? "

    Edinburgh South. A very talented and hard working MP who is in with a very good chance. Look out also for Aberdeen South.

    Aberdeen South? Cannot see any way Labour will hold it. This used to be a Tory seat and is a 4 way marginal now with the Labour vote the softest of the 4.

    This is a really strange election in Scotland. It is even a non election. Just been walking back from meeting in Central Glasgow. Got stopped twice, once to be asked who my internet provider was and the second time to support a petition on animal testing. There were a few SNP cars around earlier but even they are trying to keep a low profile now.

    What does this all mean? Who knows but Scotland is not yet in the bag for the SNP.
    After the splendours of the Indy ref it all feels a little low key. we have been ruined.
  • hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 664
    Edinburgh South I do agree with Roger on. In this ward SLAB are fighting hard and the SNP candidate is not the best.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328
    In response to SO (fpt): "The wealthiest have never had it so good. QE, rising stock markets, booming property prices, low interest rates. If you are earning in the top rate band and are asset rich the last few years have been fantastic. If you are paying a bit more tax, you are not noticing it. As you say, below that level it is much, much harder. "

    As I said, I am not whinging. But I do notice the extra tax I pay. I have gone through various redundancy rounds at my firm since 2007 and have suffered real pay falls so every penny has to be saved for possible bad times. Any money taken in tax is money not available for the "Rainy Day Fund". And my savings have been depleted in real terms by inflation and low interest rates, interest rates kept low to save the imprudent who over-borrowed and over-lent from the consequences of their folly.

    And while @Roger may think that a house brings wealth, mine does not. It costs me: repairs, maintenance, insurance, etc. It brings me no income and will only bring me any wealth when/if I sell it, at which point I may be rich (depending on what house prices are doing then).

    I do not - unlike Labour - assume that a number before it is actually earned equals real wealth.

    I am better off than many and realise that I need to pay my fair share but let's not pretend that somehow people like me haven't been targeted by the Coalition government and won't be targeted even more by Labour. We are wallets to be picked. It is infuriating that those who do the right thing: don't over-borrow, save, work hard etc are the ones who are punished.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900



    This is a really strange election in Scotland. It is even a non election. Just been walking back from meeting in Central Glasgow. Got stopped twice, once to be asked who my internet provider was and the second time to support a petition on animal testing. There were a few SNP cars around earlier but even they are trying to keep a low profile now.

    What does this all mean? Who knows but Scotland is not yet in the bag for the SNP.

    Same experience here Edinburgh E (city centre polling station). 5.30pm, expected a queue of people coming home from work. None at all, the place was half-empty. Nobody campaigning outside, nothing.

    Perhaps an atypical polling station, it's a walk-in designed for people coming back from work, a lot of whom are about to walk over a constituency boundary into Edinburgh S.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713

    Smarmeron said:

    @The_Apocalypse
    With the pasting Ed was getting in the press, I would suggest that "shy Labour" might also be in the equation?

    Maybe, though Labour voters usually don't feel ''embarrassed' about who they vote for, so I doubt that there is much of a shy-Labour effect. That said, Labour's seat share was underestimated in 2010.
    Labour voters particularly the tribal ones such as Surbiton have the political memory of gnats . They are totally incapable of remembering the damage their party did to the economy of this country in 2005 to 2010 .
    They don't think they did any damage to the economy.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    EICIPM shortening to 1.85 on Betfair

    Must be news of the final BJESUS!!!
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Ouch - Jim might as well defect to the Tories:

    https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/596358902310109185
  • FlightpathlFlightpathl Posts: 1,243

    I don't think either EdStone or Brand will have had any material impact on the outcome of this election, although they have provided entertainment.

    Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that.

    Correct.
    And to think the put down is for people living in the 'Westminster Bubble'
    Wilful ignorance stretches a lot further than that.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    SPIN 'gap' down to 19...
  • Steven_WhaleySteven_Whaley Posts: 313
    Just got back from voting here in Lincoln - following a very heavy bout of rain that's been pounding away much of the afternoon. It's dryer now though and there were a good few people voting.

    I'd only managed to narrow my choice down to three of the six candidates by today so I let my three goldfish (Vastra, Jenny & Strax) make the final choice. I allocated a candidate to each fish (Vastra/Con, Jenny/LD, Strax/Lincs Ind) and then fed them. The first fish to take a mouthful of food was declared the winner and I voted accordingly... Vastra was first.

    The local council election was much easier. Green. No need to involve the fish...

    I hope everyone has an enjoyable evening. I'm going to take a nap now so I can watch some of the results programme later. :)
  • rullkorullko Posts: 161
    Carnyx said:

    If I may, in the best traditions of PB pedantry: you mean, presumably, wavering.

    'Havering', in Scots, is to talk rubbish discoursively - which you certainly do not, least of all in a Caledonian context.

    Unfortunately its misappropriation means that it is probably going the same way as 'decimate'.

    I was about to make the same complaint, but according to dictionary.com it does indeed mean to equivocate. It lists the Scots version too, but doesn't say whether either has its origin in the other.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    calum said:

    Ouch - Jim might as well defect to the Tories:

    https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/596358902310109185

    That isn't necessarily a bad thing though - according to the latest YouGov, Miliband rates much higher among Scottish Labour voters than Murphy does.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516

    I don't think either EdStone or Brand will have had any material impact on the outcome of this election, although they have provided entertainment.

    Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that.

    much too pessimistic CR.

    Cameron is in the centre ground, elections are won in the centre therefore he's bound to win the election

    Con 467 seats ( and all of Scotland) nailed on
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    calum said:

    Ouch - Jim might as well defect to the Tories:

    https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/596358902310109185

    Margin of error, anyone?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    Roger said:

    Casino

    "Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that."

    What do you think is at the heart of it?

    People think the Tories are heartless snobs, with questionable moral fibre, who are in it for themselves and their mates.

    And people believe what they want to believe: I don't think the nation has yet accepted the parlous state it's in and the difficult decisions needed by any government.

    The Tories just have a very hard time convincing people they're taking the right ones for the right reasons, for the prejudices I've outlined.
  • BaskervilleBaskerville Posts: 391
    SPIN shifting... Now 287 - 268
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    I don't think either EdStone or Brand will have had any material impact on the outcome of this election, although they have provided entertainment.

    Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that.

    much too pessimistic CR.

    Cameron is in the centre ground, elections are won in the centre therefore he's bound to win the election

    Con 467 seats ( and all of Scotland) nailed on
    Polls consistently show voters consider Miliband to be closer to the "centre ground" than Cameron.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Just went and did a democracy in a bowling pavilion in the sunny constituency of Cheadle. Plenty busy; seems everyone brought their bairns and dogs too.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036
    midwinter said:

    midwinter said:

    Indeed. I've heard that canvassing in Lewes today has left the Dems sweating. Seepage to Labour and greens apparently. That should have been a certain hold. And may of course still be.

    Lewes looks like being close. It's partly because Maria Caulfield put an enormous amount of effort in early on, at a time when she wasn't getting much support at all from central office (that changed about a year ago). Norman Baker was complacent initially but eventually woke up, and the two sides have been going all out since.
    Thanks that's interesting I've heard Seaford is solid for Baker but Lewes town much less so. Sounds like they need ukip to take blue votes.

    Any news from Eastbourne?
    Is @Plato not working in Eastbourne as a teller for the Blues this afternoon?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    Cyclefree said:

    In response to SO (fpt): "The wealthiest have never had it so good. QE, rising stock markets, booming property prices, low interest rates. If you are earning in the top rate band and are asset rich the last few years have been fantastic. If you are paying a bit more tax, you are not noticing it. As you say, below that level it is much, much harder. "

    As I said, I am not whinging. But I do notice the extra tax I pay. I have gone through various redundancy rounds at my firm since 2007 and have suffered real pay falls so every penny has to be saved for possible bad times. Any money taken in tax is money not available for the "Rainy Day Fund". And my savings have been depleted in real terms by inflation and low interest rates, interest rates kept low to save the imprudent who over-borrowed and over-lent from the consequences of their folly.

    And while @Roger may think that a house brings wealth, mine does not. It costs me: repairs, maintenance, insurance, etc. It brings me no income and will only bring me any wealth when/if I sell it, at which point I may be rich (depending on what house prices are doing then).

    I do not - unlike Labour - assume that a number before it is actually earned equals real wealth.

    I am better off than many and realise that I need to pay my fair share but let's not pretend that somehow people like me haven't been targeted by the Coalition government and won't be targeted even more by Labour. We are wallets to be picked. It is infuriating that those who do the right thing: don't over-borrow, save, work hard etc are the ones who are punished.

    Presumably you think it is wrong for the Tories to say Ed Miliband is a millionaire then?

    My point relates to those individuals at the very top and to big multinationals. They really have never had it so good and voters can see it.


  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,983
    If Dave does lose who hand on heart wont be pleased that his creepy cheer leaders-Guido Dacre and Murdoch-wont lose with him?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BethRigby: Paywall-is-lifted-alert. All our FT election coverage tonight FREE. From 9pm follow us thru the night #GE2015 http://t.co/mK0SsmoRU6
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Daily_Record: Police Scotland warn of 'threatening behaviour' by SNP supporters http://t.co/HHI2NQjrQc http://t.co/5YpbpPQ40h
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    I don't think either EdStone or Brand will have had any material impact on the outcome of this election, although they have provided entertainment.

    Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that.

    What sort of reasons are we talking about? Been a bit busy today and haven't seen much. Do you mean problems with the electorate's expectations, or with the Tories' approach?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    Alistair said:

    Roger said:

    Andrea

    "what are the best hopes for SLAB to hold a seat? Edinburgh South and East Lothian? "

    Edinburgh South. A very talented and hard working MP who is in with a very good chance. Look out also for Aberdeen South.

    Aberdeen South? Cannot see any way Labour will hold it. This used to be a Tory seat and is a 4 way marginal now with the Labour vote the softest of the 4.

    This is a really strange election in Scotland. It is even a non election. Just been walking back from meeting in Central Glasgow. Got stopped twice, once to be asked who my internet provider was and the second time to support a petition on animal testing. There were a few SNP cars around earlier but even they are trying to keep a low profile now.

    What does this all mean? Who knows but Scotland is not yet in the bag for the SNP.
    After the splendours of the Indy ref it all feels a little low key. we have been ruined.
    Aye, spoilt for life. No intimidating marching mobs of women and bairns with SNP balloons this time. The Annan thing seems to have been made up pish for all one can tell, and there is just the odd momentary alleged excitement in Dundee:

    https://twitter.com/search?q=dundee polling station&src=typd
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited May 2015

    Roger said:

    Casino

    "Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that."

    What do you think is at the heart of it?



    And people believe what they want to believe: I don't think the nation has yet accepted the parlous state it's in and the difficult decisions needed by any government.

    It will over the next 5 years, regardless of who's in power. We're in for some Greek style adjustment.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417

    As for me, still not voted or decided who to vote for if I do.

    Labour in Edinburgh South SNp anywhere else ta.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    Danny565 said:

    I don't think either EdStone or Brand will have had any material impact on the outcome of this election, although they have provided entertainment.

    Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that.

    much too pessimistic CR.

    Cameron is in the centre ground, elections are won in the centre therefore he's bound to win the election

    Con 467 seats ( and all of Scotland) nailed on
    Polls consistently show voters consider Miliband to be closer to the "centre ground" than Cameron.
    Just shows you can fool some of the people some of the time.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Roger said:

    Casino

    "Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that."

    What do you think is at the heart of it?

    People think the Tories are heartless snobs, with questionable moral fibre, who are in it for themselves and their mates.

    And people believe what they want to believe: I don't think the nation has yet accepted the parlous state it's in and the difficult decisions needed by any government.

    The Tories just have a very hard time convincing people they're taking the right ones for the right reasons, for the prejudices I've outlined.
    Yes people do think that of the Tories, and the Tory party has only reinforced that picture over the last 5 years.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    If Ed loses, I think #edstone will be the enduring LOL moment.

    If Ed wins, then the monuments will get bigger and bigger at every election.

    @thomasknox: As polls show a late swing to Labour, spin doctors across London are saying "OK, next time we do our OWN 8ft high limestone Policy Obelisk"
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Roger said:

    If Dave does lose who hand on heart wont be pleased that his creepy cheer leaders-Guido Dacre and Murdoch-wont lose with him?

    Actually it will be a historic defeat.
    The media has never lost an election before, this could be the first one.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Roger said:

    If Dave does lose who hand on heart wont be pleased that his creepy cheer leaders-Guido Dacre and Murdoch-wont lose with him?

    Dacre and Murdoch were both Labour cheerleaders for many years, so we can all share your joy.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    @GuidoFawkes: Another marginal seat says CCHQ have told 'em to not enter data into VoteSource. Database has crashed.

    God, it's farcical.
    Jeez, not this one again! They had the same problem last time with the old system.
    I might volunteer my services in 2020, do they really not have someone that can set up a scalable and robust database infrastructure?
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Roger said:

    If Dave does lose who hand on heart wont be pleased that his creepy cheer leaders-Guido Dacre and Murdoch-wont lose with him?

    Not really much of a choice though is it?

    Guido, Dacre and Murdoch or Brand, Coogan and Jones, take your pick
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    Roger said:

    If Dave does lose who hand on heart wont be pleased that his creepy cheer leaders-Guido Dacre and Murdoch-wont lose with him?

    I don't know about Guido and Dacre, but it has been interesting watching the Sun having to back the Tories. They are essentially glory hunters but I guess it would have been a bit weird to have backed Labour this time!
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Scott_P said:

    If Ed loses, I think #edstone will be the enduring LOL moment.

    If Ed wins, then the monuments will get bigger and bigger at every election.

    @thomasknox: As polls show a late swing to Labour, spin doctors across London are saying "OK, next time we do our OWN 8ft high limestone Policy Obelisk"
    The Tories could put their promises on cast iron.
  • acf2310acf2310 Posts: 141
    edited May 2015
    Sandpit said:

    @GuidoFawkes: Another marginal seat says CCHQ have told 'em to not enter data into VoteSource. Database has crashed.

    God, it's farcical.
    Jeez, not this one again! They had the same problem last time with the old system.
    I might volunteer my services in 2020, do they really not have someone that can set up a scalable and robust database infrastructure?
    Every bit of IT that CCHQ has ever tried to introduce has been an unmitigated disaster. Extraordinary that this is still a problem.
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Speedy said:

    Roger said:

    Casino

    "Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that."

    What do you think is at the heart of it?

    People think the Tories are heartless snobs, with questionable moral fibre, who are in it for themselves and their mates.

    And people believe what they want to believe: I don't think the nation has yet accepted the parlous state it's in and the difficult decisions needed by any government.

    The Tories just have a very hard time convincing people they're taking the right ones for the right reasons, for the prejudices I've outlined.
    Yes people do think that of the Tories, and the Tory party has only reinforced that picture over the last 5 years.
    And yet the tories will still be within touching distance of what they polled 5 years ago.
    A simple truth is that ukip may have cost them 4% of the popular vote.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    acf2310 said:

    Sandpit said:

    @GuidoFawkes: Another marginal seat says CCHQ have told 'em to not enter data into VoteSource. Database has crashed.

    God, it's farcical.
    Jeez, not this one again! They had the same problem last time with the old system.
    I might volunteer my services in 2020, do they really not have someone that can set up a scalable and robust database infrastructure?
    Every bit of IT that CCHQ has ever tried to introduce has been an unmitigated disaster. Extraordinary that this is still a problem.
    How hard can it be to create an SQL database with a web interface?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    acf2310 said:

    Sandpit said:

    @GuidoFawkes: Another marginal seat says CCHQ have told 'em to not enter data into VoteSource. Database has crashed.

    God, it's farcical.
    Jeez, not this one again! They had the same problem last time with the old system.
    I might volunteer my services in 2020, do they really not have someone that can set up a scalable and robust database infrastructure?
    Every bit of IT that CCHQ has ever tried to introduce has been an unmitigated disaster. Extraordinary that this is still a problem.
    It reminds me of this classic italian film.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Deal_on_Madonna_Street
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,036

    Looking at some the hysterical fact-denying comments I've seen on social media today about why people aren't voting Tory, the problem seems much more deep-seated than that.

    There's about to be a massive dose of reality coming for the social media generation of lefties, most of whom think that only 1% of the population need to pay any more in taxes in order for everyone else to have more sweeties.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328
    kjohnw said:

    CD13 said:

    Ooops! Posted on previous thread by mistake.

    Ed in power won't change a lot, assuming the lights don't go out. Energy bills will rise to pay for the green initiatives and everyone's taxes will rise a little to pay for the Gaelgeld, but look on the bright side.

    Scots will be better off, and our carbon footprint will disappear. And everyone else will be equal so any misery will be shared. And there will no more more Islamophobia allowed.

    And lots of people will feel better about themselves.

    yeah Ed is going to ban Charlie Hebdo, and we wont be able to discuss Rotherham without being called Islamophobes, he'll also destroy the free press and freedom of speech, so much to look forward to
    Reality will hit him when the next Islamist terrorist atrocity occurs. And - sadly - it is a case of when rather than if.

  • rullkorullko Posts: 161
    Speedy said:

    Roger said:

    If Dave does lose who hand on heart wont be pleased that his creepy cheer leaders-Guido Dacre and Murdoch-wont lose with him?

    Actually it will be a historic defeat.
    The media has never lost an election before, this could be the first one.
    This alone would tempt me to vote Labour, if I lived in England. The media has been in government for decades; it's time for a change.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    acf2310 said:

    Sandpit said:

    @GuidoFawkes: Another marginal seat says CCHQ have told 'em to not enter data into VoteSource. Database has crashed.

    God, it's farcical.
    Jeez, not this one again! They had the same problem last time with the old system.
    I might volunteer my services in 2020, do they really not have someone that can set up a scalable and robust database infrastructure?
    Every bit of IT that CCHQ has ever tried to introduce has been an unmitigated disaster. Extraordinary that this is still a problem.
    I understand that elements of their Wikipedia engagement project have shown prolific output.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    Polruan said:

    acf2310 said:

    Sandpit said:

    @GuidoFawkes: Another marginal seat says CCHQ have told 'em to not enter data into VoteSource. Database has crashed.

    God, it's farcical.
    Jeez, not this one again! They had the same problem last time with the old system.
    I might volunteer my services in 2020, do they really not have someone that can set up a scalable and robust database infrastructure?
    Every bit of IT that CCHQ has ever tried to introduce has been an unmitigated disaster. Extraordinary that this is still a problem.
    I understand that elements of their Wikipedia engagement project have shown prolific output.
    Naughty :p
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited May 2015
    RobD said:

    acf2310 said:

    Sandpit said:

    @GuidoFawkes: Another marginal seat says CCHQ have told 'em to not enter data into VoteSource. Database has crashed.

    God, it's farcical.
    Jeez, not this one again! They had the same problem last time with the old system.
    I might volunteer my services in 2020, do they really not have someone that can set up a scalable and robust database infrastructure?
    Every bit of IT that CCHQ has ever tried to introduce has been an unmitigated disaster. Extraordinary that this is still a problem.
    How hard can it be to create an SQL database with a web interface?
    You would ask the same about why every GP doesn't have online booking...it is absolute piece of cake these days, but despite basically every company out there that requiring it having some sort of online booking system, it is only in a very small percentage of GP surgeries.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,983
    Cyclefree

    "And while @Roger may think that a house brings wealth, mine does not. It costs me: repairs, maintenance, insurance, etc. It brings me no income and will only bring me any wealth when/if I sell it, at which point I may be rich (depending on what house prices are doing then)."

    Do you believe that only an asset that produces an income can be called wealth? If so the same would apply to your Ferrari your house in Tuscany your diamonds or your Van Dyke.

    None produce income but as with all assets they are saleable or can be borrowed against. Rent a smaller house and buy an annuity with the change.

    I know several people who have sold their London homes or even traded down do they can buy a second home in Italy France or Spain. If you want an income you could even rent them out
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    RobD said:

    acf2310 said:

    Sandpit said:

    @GuidoFawkes: Another marginal seat says CCHQ have told 'em to not enter data into VoteSource. Database has crashed.

    God, it's farcical.
    Jeez, not this one again! They had the same problem last time with the old system.
    I might volunteer my services in 2020, do they really not have someone that can set up a scalable and robust database infrastructure?
    Every bit of IT that CCHQ has ever tried to introduce has been an unmitigated disaster. Extraordinary that this is still a problem.
    How hard can it be to create an SQL database with a web interface?
    Have they been working with the NHS?
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    How big is the Tory majority looking folks?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045

    RobD said:

    acf2310 said:

    Sandpit said:

    @GuidoFawkes: Another marginal seat says CCHQ have told 'em to not enter data into VoteSource. Database has crashed.

    God, it's farcical.
    Jeez, not this one again! They had the same problem last time with the old system.
    I might volunteer my services in 2020, do they really not have someone that can set up a scalable and robust database infrastructure?
    Every bit of IT that CCHQ has ever tried to introduce has been an unmitigated disaster. Extraordinary that this is still a problem.
    How hard can it be to create an SQL database with a web interface?
    Have they been working with the NHS?
    Well, that is a lot more complex. Surely the voter database only contains one table: voters. I'm not sure how canvassing is done, but you could easily imagine integrating it with a tablet (not a stone one!) which could directly record information in the database while canvassers are out on the street.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    rullko said:

    Carnyx said:

    If I may, in the best traditions of PB pedantry: you mean, presumably, wavering.

    'Havering', in Scots, is to talk rubbish discoursively - which you certainly do not, least of all in a Caledonian context.

    Unfortunately its misappropriation means that it is probably going the same way as 'decimate'.

    I was about to make the same complaint, but according to dictionary.com it does indeed mean to equivocate. It lists the Scots version too, but doesn't say whether either has its origin in the other.
    The Scots version (possibly Northumbrian, too, for all I know) is definitely the primary sense. The equivocation sense is a misappropriation/neologism - I imagine, from the similarity to 'wavering'. It annoys me as much as 'decimate' would a legionary Primus Pilus!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,045
    SMukesh said:

    How big is the Tory majority looking folks?

    A hundred seats, at least. :)
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited May 2015
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree

    "And while @Roger may think that a house brings wealth, mine does not. It costs me: repairs, maintenance, insurance, etc. It brings me no income and will only bring me any wealth when/if I sell it, at which point I may be rich (depending on what house prices are doing then)."

    Do you believe that only an asset that produces an income can be called wealth? If so the same would apply to your Ferrari your house in Tuscany your diamonds or your Van Dyke.

    None produce income but as with all assets they are saleable or can be borrowed against. Rent a smaller house and buy an annuity with the change.

    I know several people who have sold their London homes or even traded down do they can buy a second home in Italy France or Spain. If you want an income you could even rent them out

    Your rich chums can do that, but back in the real world most 'normal' people don't have the luxury of living overseas whilst they still have to earn a crust somewhere to pay the mortgage and bills. They certainly don't have houses large enough that they can trade down, without being squished into an ever smaller shoebox.

    And you're saying the Tories are out of touch.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    Scott_P said:

    @Daily_Record: Police Scotland warn of 'threatening behaviour' by SNP supporters http://t.co/HHI2NQjrQc http://t.co/5YpbpPQ40h

    Typical DR headline. Did you look at the original story?

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/police-scotland-warn-polling-stations-5650534

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,983
    "@thomasknox: As polls show a late swing to Labour, spin doctors across London are saying "OK, next time we do our OWN 8ft high limestone Policy Obelisk""

    LOL!!!
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    The Independent still running with an exaggerated version of the now debunked Ruth D story:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/election-2015-voters-intimidated-in-polling-stations-across-scotland-says-ruth-davidson-10232793.html

    Even though the article concludes its all rubbish:

    " Police Scotland and Dumfries & Galloway Council said they are currently looking into the allegations, although The Independent understands that there isn't anything in the claims. "
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,328

    Cyclefree said:

    In response to SO (fpt): "The wealthiest have never had it so good. QE, rising stock markets, booming property prices, low interest rates. If you are earning in the top rate band and are asset rich the last few years have been fantastic. If you are paying a bit more tax, you are not noticing it. As you say, below that level it is much, much harder. "

    As I said, I am not whinging. But I do notice the extra tax I pay. I have gone through various redundancy rounds at my firm since 2007 and have suffered real pay falls so every penny has to be saved for possible bad times. Any money taken in tax is money not available for the "Rainy Day Fund". And my savings have been depleted in real terms by inflation and low interest rates, interest rates kept low to save the imprudent who over-borrowed and over-lent from the consequences of their folly.

    And while @Roger may think that a house brings wealth, mine does not. It costs me: repairs, maintenance, insurance, etc. It brings me no income and will only bring me any wealth when/if I sell it, at which point I may be rich (depending on what house prices are doing then).

    I do not - unlike Labour - assume that a number before it is actually earned equals real wealth.

    I am better off than many and realise that I need to pay my fair share but let's not pretend that somehow people like me haven't been targeted by the Coalition government and won't be targeted even more by Labour. We are wallets to be picked. It is infuriating that those who do the right thing: don't over-borrow, save, work hard etc are the ones who are punished.

    Presumably you think it is wrong for the Tories to say Ed Miliband is a millionaire then?

    My point relates to those individuals at the very top and to big multinationals. They really have never had it so good and voters can see it.


    I have no idea what cash assets EdM has and don't really care, to be honest. If people have earned their money, good for them. But I do think that it is absurd to say that you are worth a million, say, purely on the basis of some hypothetical value of a house, which may be mortgaged. And even sillier to borrow money against such a house and fritter it away on holidays and the rest, which seems to be what a lot of people have done.

    I am a bit old-fashioned on this score. Paper wealth is meaningless. Only actual cash in the bank counts for me. And it's one reason why I think that property is best taxed when there is a transaction because you get a real valuation and it is easier (and probably less painful) to take a slice then.

    I take your point about individuals at the top. But Labour will not just be taxing those. They will be taxing all of us - and very heavily - and they have been dishonest about this.

  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    RobD said:

    SMukesh said:

    How big is the Tory majority looking folks?

    A hundred seats, at least. :)
    I am waiting for Lynton Crosby`s next dead cat bounce at 930 pm.
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    The drop of the FTSE today is a small taste of what will happen if Labour get in. I'm pretty sure that the majority of voters don't realise what impact this will have on what ever pension savings they have, or the impact on annuity returns.

    I still can't believe that in the privacy of the voting cubicle, people will put their cross on Labour.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,049
    edited May 2015
    I mean I know the Beeb isn't supposed to make potentially biased comments but their headline is: "Millions vote in UK General Election."

    Really?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @NCPoliticsUK: NCP final call roundup and prediction:

    CON 302
    LAB 249
    SNP 51
    LIB 23

    http://t.co/Tfknp8cMP1
    #GE2015 #ELECTION2015 http://t.co/LfX5K0N6SF
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    Gosh some of the comments on here are crazy. Absurd defeatism and negativity from the right and silly tribal taunts from the left. And this for an election which will still very likely produce a hung parliament - so no clear winner. After 5 years of difficult times for many on average incomes or less, with little growth for much of the time and some tax rises. Yet roughly the same % will be voting Tory/Labour again in E & W. I'm disappointed that the Coalition is not getting the credit it deserves, but there is no ringing endorsement of the left here either.

    The big losers, as always, will be ordinary folk who, as always, will be disappointed when little changes. Twas ever thus.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,401
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Daily_Record: Police Scotland warn of 'threatening behaviour' by SNP supporters http://t.co/HHI2NQjrQc http://t.co/5YpbpPQ40h

    Typical DR headline. Did you look at the original story?

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/police-scotland-warn-polling-stations-5650534

    Which, incidentally, had some very sleekit [anglice, sly] wording.

    And further to that -

    http://www.thenational.scot/news/police-scotland-deny-unionist-reports-they-warned-of-snp-aggression-at-polls.2731

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    edited May 2015
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    acf2310 said:

    Sandpit said:

    @GuidoFawkes: Another marginal seat says CCHQ have told 'em to not enter data into VoteSource. Database has crashed.

    God, it's farcical.
    Jeez, not this one again! They had the same problem last time with the old system.
    I might volunteer my services in 2020, do they really not have someone that can set up a scalable and robust database infrastructure?
    Every bit of IT that CCHQ has ever tried to introduce has been an unmitigated disaster. Extraordinary that this is still a problem.
    How hard can it be to create an SQL database with a web interface?
    Have they been working with the NHS?
    Well, that is a lot more complex. Surely the voter database only contains one table: voters. I'm not sure how canvassing is done, but you could easily imagine integrating it with a tablet (not a stone one!) which could directly record information in the database while canvassers are out on the street.
    Quite Rob. Sarcasm doesn't travel well, Sorry.
    Agree;; when one is managing canvassers what one needs to know is how people intend to vote, probably showing Will, deffo, will might, won't deffo (party 1) ( won't deffo (Party 2), won't Jehovah Witness or whatever.
    And for groups 1 & 2 whether they need a lift.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    No signs up in Brompton btw lots of Calvert posters up near Barnsley\wakefield
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