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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Details of all 14 seats from the first round of the Lord As

SystemSystem Posts: 12,214
edited February 2015 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Details of all 14 seats from the first round of the Lord Ashcroft Scottish polling

The @LordAshcroft Scottish polling that's just been published is only the first round and covers mainly areas where YES did well in IndyRef

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Ed, Hammer of the scots (Lab).
  • the First
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    Labour are dog tucker.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    Lol - in terms of retention the Tory vote falls the LEAST overall! Gives them a chance of keeping one and maybe gaining one?
  • Christ on a bicycle, this polling is sensational!
  • I've been under the impression that the libdems would still be the 3rd largest party come the general election but if the other polls released today look anything like this then the SNP could do spectacularly well come the general election.
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376

    I've been under the impression that the libdems would still be the 3rd largest party come the general election but if the other polls released today look anything like this then the SNP could do spectacularly well come the general election.

    I'm trying to work out if the LibDems could come 6th on vote share behind UKIP, Greens and SNP.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    felix said:

    Lol - in terms of retention the Tory vote falls the LEAST overall! Gives them a chance of keeping one and maybe gaining one?

    But it does fall.

    With voters moving away from Labour and the LDs the Tories should be able to attract at least a portion of them. But they don't appear to capable of that.

    Their best hope seems to be Labour doing badly, the Tories are unable to do well.
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376

    felix said:

    Lol - in terms of retention the Tory vote falls the LEAST overall! Gives them a chance of keeping one and maybe gaining one?

    Their best hope seems to be Labour doing badly, the Tories are unable to do well.
    Blimey, give us a break. We are talking about Scotland you know. Doubling seats there would be some achievement.
  • I've been under the impression that the libdems would still be the 3rd largest party come the general election but if the other polls released today look anything like this then the SNP could do spectacularly well come the general election.

    I'm trying to work out if the LibDems could come 6th on vote share behind UKIP, Greens and SNP.
    I think they will certainly get hammered when it comes to the vote share, a particularly in areas where Labour are strong. As mentioned by others before they tend to be strong in the places they have mps but elsewhere in the country I have no doubt that their vote will collapse in a big way.

    With regards to the greens and UKIP I believe their vote share will be much less than polling currently suggests, however I don't think it is out of the question that UKIP might come ahead of them in terms of vote share (although it is without question that UKIP will get less seats). I can see a LibDem revival come the election as I think voters will respond positively when they see Nick Clegg again. I think his capacity to win back voters is somewhat underestimated, there was a comedy program recently 'the last leg' that invited him on and viewers there and on social media responded incredibly positive towards him.

    With regards to the Greens, I'm not sure that they will have the same 'water over a ducks back' protection that UKIP have when it comes to scrutiny. I think young people will be a bit put off by their anti-science approach to a number of issues. With regards to the rest of the populace, one only has to look at the way they have handled the citizens income debacle to see that they mightn't be prepared for the run up to May.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited February 2015

    I've been under the impression that the libdems would still be the 3rd largest party come the general election but if the other polls released today look anything like this then the SNP could do spectacularly well come the general election.

    I'm trying to work out if the LibDems could come 6th on vote share behind UKIP, Greens and SNP.
    With regards to the greens and UKIP I believe their vote share will be much less than polling currently suggests, however I don't think it is out of the question that UKIP might come ahead of them [LDs] in terms of vote share
    UKIP beat the LDs on vote share in the 2013 and 2014 local elections.

    2013 locals: LD 13%, UKIP 22%
    2014 locals: LD 11%, UKIP 18%

    http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/RP14-33/local-elections-2014
  • I've been under the impression that the libdems would still be the 3rd largest party come the general election but if the other polls released today look anything like this then the SNP could do spectacularly well come the general election.

    I'm trying to work out if the LibDems could come 6th on vote share behind UKIP, Greens and SNP.
    With regards to the greens and UKIP I believe their vote share will be much less than polling currently suggests, however I don't think it is out of the question that UKIP might come ahead of them [LDs] in terms of vote share
    UKIP beat the LDs on vote share in the 2013 and 2014 local elections.

    2013 locals: LD 13%, UKIP 22%
    2014 locals: LD 11%, UKIP 18%

    http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/RP14-33/local-elections-2014
    This is true and certainly in the case of the European elections (as did the greens). So far UKIP's base of support seems pretty solid although I don't know whether they will be able to sustain it. I have a feeling UKIP will poll higher than the LD's but I'm not certain. It's going to be a pretty crazy and unpredictable election campaign. And most probably a very dirty one.
  • I know nothing about Scotland but purely numerically speaking: Wasn't the hope for a Labour non-wipeout that they'd beat UNS in areas where No was strong, which will be enough to save seats, at the expense of area where Yes was strong that they'd have lost anyway? If these are the seats where Yes was strong and they're getting righteously clobbered, that theory still seems OK, no? Or are there some seats in this set of polls in areas of strength for No where the voters still want to kill them and bury them in a hole?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    I've been under the impression that the libdems would still be the 3rd largest party come the general election but if the other polls released today look anything like this then the SNP could do spectacularly well come the general election.

    I'm trying to work out if the LibDems could come 6th on vote share behind UKIP, Greens and SNP.
    With regards to the greens and UKIP I believe their vote share will be much less than polling currently suggests, however I don't think it is out of the question that UKIP might come ahead of them [LDs] in terms of vote share
    UKIP beat the LDs on vote share in the 2013 and 2014 local elections.

    2013 locals: LD 13%, UKIP 22%
    2014 locals: LD 11%, UKIP 18%

    http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/RP14-33/local-elections-2014
    This is true and certainly in the case of the European elections (as did the greens). So far UKIP's base of support seems pretty solid although I don't know whether they will be able to sustain it. I have a feeling UKIP will poll higher than the LD's but I'm not certain. It's going to be a pretty crazy and unpredictable election campaign. And most probably a very dirty one.
    I'm looking forward to the 2015 local elections result as much as the general election result. How will UKIP vs LDs vs Greens fare in the councillors elected contest?!

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Also, curse you Ashcroft. I had been planning on doing some 9am betting. Day Ruined.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    SLAB has the stench of death about them. The SNP has the simple message "make Westminster honour The Pledge. Vote SNP. For Scotland." People like to vote for winners. The SNP can hoover up both the Yes vote AND the No But More Devolution vote.

    I still see the SNP topping 50% on the day.

    But the fascinating issue is how much funding gets pulled from seats that are in Labour second tier seats to save SOMETHING in Scotland. Must be a boon to the Tories elsewhere in England - as the number of fights they are in gets drastically reduced.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    edited February 2015
    Glasgow North: LibDems go from 31% to 4%. Whilst the damage to SLAB is huge, it is actually the total desertion in the ranks by the LibDems that is handing these seats to the SNP. Anyone see LibDem fortunes reviving in Scotland anytime soon? No, me neither.....
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Betfair most seats

    Con 1.83, Lab 2.2
  • No surprises, though it's rather amusing to think about the MPs who believed they had jobs for life contemplating imminent unemployment as they come face to face with the SNP surge in black and white.

    I guess Labour will focus on the fact that even on these huge swings several seats are very tight. If some SNP voters can be won back a catastrophe may yet be converted into a mere disaster. But I wouldn't bet on it.

    Of course, if Labour does still end up the largest party despite these results it will be because it has won most seats in England. Expect a swift embrace of EV4EL at that point.
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2015

    Glasgow North: LibDems go from 31% to 4%. Whilst the damage to SLAB is huge, it is actually the total desertion in the ranks by the LibDems that is handing these seats to the SNP. Anyone see LibDem fortunes reviving in Scotland anytime soon? No, me neither.....

    Indeed. LibDem wipeout is the great pb thread spiral of silence. I wonder why that might be ;)
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Is Danny Alexander too young for the Lords ?
  • This is a repeat of what happened in Ireland in the 1918 election.
  • This is early! Thought they weren't out until 11am..

    Thank goodness I took the advice of antifrank and placed extra bets on these seats over the weekend.
  • I know nothing about Scotland but purely numerically speaking: Wasn't the hope for a Labour non-wipeout that they'd beat UNS in areas where No was strong, which will be enough to save seats, at the expense of area where Yes was strong that they'd have lost anyway? If these are the seats where Yes was strong and they're getting righteously clobbered, that theory still seems OK, no? Or are there some seats in this set of polls in areas of strength for No where the voters still want to kill them and bury them in a hole?

    I'm not sure Gordon or Inverness were particularly strong for Yes. I think it's your latter theory.
  • This is Dockside Hooker when 10 Fleets are in port Territory.

    Huzzah to Antifrank for his brilliant strategy, I'm so glad I followed him in.

    "Only" a 15% swing in Gordon, compared to 25% ish elsewhere.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173

    felix said:

    Lol - in terms of retention the Tory vote falls the LEAST overall! Gives them a chance of keeping one and maybe gaining one?

    But it does fall.

    With voters moving away from Labour and the LDs the Tories should be able to attract at least a portion of them. But they don't appear to capable of that.

    Their best hope seems to be Labour doing badly, the Tories are unable to do well.
    How to completely miss the point in one simple post. If there are any regional variations to speak of and this isn't clear from the polls so far, it gives the Tories a chance of one hold and one gain from the LDs in the borders. It may not happen but on what we see thus far it's by no means the least likely outcome.
  • This is Dockside Hooker when 10 Fleets are in port Territory.

    Huzzah to Antifrank for his brilliant strategy, I'm so glad I followed him in.

    "Only" a 15% swing in Gordon, compared to 25% ish elsewhere.

    Yep, it does look as if Antifrank is about to enter the PB Pantheon. One of the great political betting tips of all time. It certainly compares with the Smithson Obama call. Press lurkers may want to contact him. There is surely a story for them here.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020
    What a depressing way to start the morning (unless you put money on it of course). Antifrank has been vindicated in the most spectacular way and the bookies have been caught with their trousers down or nothing under their kilt. Well done him.

    I am assuming this is one shot deal from Lord A. It is possible that a national campaign and the much higher profile the national parties get on TV (even although it is Ed we are talking about here) will claw this back a bit. I expect those seats that are close to get closer as Labour play their "keep the tories out" card once again and the odd one might even be saved.

    But this is at the margins where Dundee West isn't. I am not minded to vote for the muppet if it is not going to make any difference.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    To be more serious the potential elimination of the LDs & SLab completes the process of the separation of Scotand from the UK which the referendum failed to give them. If any kind of Union is to be saved we clearly need a new constitutional settlement for the whole of the UK - and we need it soon.
  • No surprises, though it's rather amusing to think about the MPs who believed they had jobs for life contemplating imminent unemployment as they come face to face with the SNP surge in black and white.

    I guess Labour will focus on the fact that even on these huge swings several seats are very tight. If some SNP voters can be won back a catastrophe may yet be converted into a mere disaster. But I wouldn't bet on it.

    Of course, if Labour does still end up the largest party despite these results it will be because it has won most seats in England. Expect a swift embrace of EV4EL at that point.

    The only reason anyone is interested in doing weird shit like EV4EL is because of the partisan balance. If Lab and Con are both down to 2 guys while the SNP ignore the English stuff then nobody will care about it any more.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    DavidL said:

    What a depressing way to start the morning (unless you put money on it of course). Antifrank has been vindicated in the most spectacular way and the bookies have been caught with their trousers down or nothing under their kilt. Well done him.

    I am assuming this is one shot deal from Lord A. It is possible that a national campaign and the much higher profile the national parties get on TV (even although it is Ed we are talking about here) will claw this back a bit. I expect those seats that are close to get closer as Labour play their "keep the tories out" card once again and the odd one might even be saved.

    But this is at the margins where Dundee West isn't. I am not minded to vote for the muppet if it is not going to make any difference.

    The Union is broken - a Milipatch ain't gonna staunch the bleeding.
  • In hindsight, it was a brilliant strategy by the Dave to only win one seat in Scotland last time.

    I still can't process these swings, they are up there with say Newbury 93.

    Is a pity that Lord A didn't poll in Edinburgh or Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (Con gain there)
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    felix said:

    To be more serious the potential elimination of the LDs & SLab completes the process of the separation of Scotand from the UK which the referendum failed to give them. If any kind of Union is to be saved we clearly need a new constitutional settlement for the whole of the UK - and we need it soon.

    There's an added spectacle to this. Suppose SNP do indeed wipe out SLAB as is likely and yet don't hold the balance of power at Westminster? This is a distinct possibility. Then we could have a very odd parliament. I can't imagine 50-odd SNP MPs trekking down south every Monday to debate and vote on things which have no meaning for them.
  • Is this Ed's most important ever PMQs?

    If he gets thrashed by Dave again, Labour MPs are going to be in a very grumpy, fractious mood, and the media narrative writes itself.

    Any PB Tory who takes part in the Daily YouGov, vote Labour, #SaveEd
  • No surprises, though it's rather amusing to think about the MPs who believed they had jobs for life contemplating imminent unemployment as they come face to face with the SNP surge in black and white.

    I guess Labour will focus on the fact that even on these huge swings several seats are very tight. If some SNP voters can be won back a catastrophe may yet be converted into a mere disaster. But I wouldn't bet on it.

    Of course, if Labour does still end up the largest party despite these results it will be because it has won most seats in England. Expect a swift embrace of EV4EL at that point.

    The only reason anyone is interested in doing weird shit like EV4EL is because of the partisan balance. If Lab and Con are both down to 2 guys while the SNP ignore the English stuff then nobody will care about it any more.

    The SNP will do what they think is best to advance the case for separation. In a hung Parliament that will mean looking to rile the English by seeking to influence England-only decision-making. The easiest way to stop that is to remove them from the equation and if Labour is the biggest English party it becomes a no-brainer - the threat goes away and, what's more, the only way the SNP can then affect affairs is to vote with the Tories to bring a Labour government down. That - ahem - may not play well in Scotland. It will be an entirely partisan decision, I agree, but that is the nature of constitutional politics in the UK.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020
    What this polling also does is vindicate the point I have been making since at least September. The No vote is splitting at least 3 ways (arguably 4 because on this polling the SNP are even picking up some no voters) whilst the yes vote is consolidated.

    Unionist parties really have to think about the implications of that. Why oh why, for example, is a tory standing against Danny Alexander in Inverness? On this polling it would not make much of a difference but it would help.

    I would also be very interested to see Edinburgh West and East Dumbartonshire, 2 Lib Dem seats that really should fall to Labour but have to be in play at the very least with a swing of this magnitude.
  • felix said:

    To be more serious the potential elimination of the LDs & SLab completes the process of the separation of Scotand from the UK which the referendum failed to give them. If any kind of Union is to be saved we clearly need a new constitutional settlement for the whole of the UK - and we need it soon.

    Yes, that is exactly what we need: a full-scale, cross-party, nothing-off-the-table constitutional convention. I have been saying it for years. Our current settlement is not fit for purpose.

    We won't get one, of course, because our parties do not have the vision or the sense to work together in that way. Instead, they'll make it up as they go along, tweaking for partisan advantage until the whole edifice collapses entirely.

  • So post election we have a series of regional parties:
    Tories - rural and southern England
    Labour - urban and northern England
    LibDem -south west pockets of resistance
    SNP - most of Scotland
    UKIP - angry pockets of southern England
    Plaid - unpronounceable bits of Wales
    NI - various parties

    No one represents the UK yet they will have to form what's laughingly still called the UK parliament. Labour will be not only the largest party but will also have allies with more seats than the Tories likely allies. So EICIPM and we get a constitutional convention as promised and get to finally settle the need for a new form of UK where nations and regions actually have some power.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    TGOHF said:

    Is Danny Alexander too young for the Lords ?

    Fit only for the dustbin, a complete tosser
  • felix said:

    DavidL said:

    What a depressing way to start the morning (unless you put money on it of course). Antifrank has been vindicated in the most spectacular way and the bookies have been caught with their trousers down or nothing under their kilt. Well done him.

    I am assuming this is one shot deal from Lord A. It is possible that a national campaign and the much higher profile the national parties get on TV (even although it is Ed we are talking about here) will claw this back a bit. I expect those seats that are close to get closer as Labour play their "keep the tories out" card once again and the odd one might even be saved.

    But this is at the margins where Dundee West isn't. I am not minded to vote for the muppet if it is not going to make any difference.

    The Union is broken - a Milipatch ain't gonna staunch the bleeding.
    Politicians need to get re-elected every few years, so inevitably short term thinking is endemic. That often means that they do something with scant thought for the longer term consequences. No doubt Labour thought devolution was a spiffing idea because they owned Scottish machine politics. What they unleashed is, in fact, a chain of events that can only ever end up with a fully federal UK or a split. I like the idea of a fully federal and equal UK. I'm ok with a split. I'm not OK for England forever to cough up to pay for Scottish uni fees, prescriptions, jam and unicorns.
  • EdM is very, very lucky that in England UKIP is clearly a right-wing party. If it had evolved as a party of the centre-left it might well have spelled the complete end of Labour, enjoying swings in Labour heartlands down south comparable to those the SNP is now getting in Scotland.
  • I'm really interested to see Dumfries and Galloway.

    If the Tory vote holds up there around 30% and the Labour vote drops to below that, due to defectors to the SNP, then it could become a 3-way marginal that the Tories pick up through the middle.

    And my 9-1 bet would come true.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    This is Dockside Hooker when 10 Fleets are in port Territory.

    Huzzah to Antifrank for his brilliant strategy, I'm so glad I followed him in.

    "Only" a 15% swing in Gordon, compared to 25% ish elsewhere.

    Yep, it does look as if Antifrank is about to enter the PB Pantheon. One of the great political betting tips of all time. It certainly compares with the Smithson Obama call. Press lurkers may want to contact him. There is surely a story for them here.

    I have to say a blind man could have spotted it up here at least. It has been obvious from the referendum that Labour and Lib Dems were going to get a kicking. Duplitious lying toerags , people are less than happy with the VOW and Home Rule and been getting unhappier by the day.
  • This is Dockside Hooker when 10 Fleets are in port Territory.

    Huzzah to Antifrank for his brilliant strategy, I'm so glad I followed him in.

    "Only" a 15% swing in Gordon, compared to 25% ish elsewhere.

    I've now got the classic "gambler's regret" that I didn't put more on. I only punted a dozen seats with £20-£30 on each. I could have, and should have, done so much more!
  • Is this Ed's most important ever PMQs?

    If he gets thrashed by Dave again, Labour MPs are going to be in a very grumpy, fractious mood, and the media narrative writes itself.

    Any PB Tory who takes part in the Daily YouGov, vote Labour, #SaveEd

    It's Wednesday; it's PMQs; so the pb Tories will declare unconditional victory for their man. Then I'll ask if this means CCHQ has ballsed up its debates strategy, and the pb Tories will explain that no, it is an act of mercy that Cameron does not want to take on Miliband.
  • Patrick said:

    felix said:

    DavidL said:

    What a depressing way to start the morning (unless you put money on it of course). Antifrank has been vindicated in the most spectacular way and the bookies have been caught with their trousers down or nothing under their kilt. Well done him.

    I am assuming this is one shot deal from Lord A. It is possible that a national campaign and the much higher profile the national parties get on TV (even although it is Ed we are talking about here) will claw this back a bit. I expect those seats that are close to get closer as Labour play their "keep the tories out" card once again and the odd one might even be saved.

    But this is at the margins where Dundee West isn't. I am not minded to vote for the muppet if it is not going to make any difference.

    The Union is broken - a Milipatch ain't gonna staunch the bleeding.
    Politicians need to get re-elected every few years, so inevitably short term thinking is endemic. That often means that they do something with scant thought for the longer term consequences. No doubt Labour thought devolution was a spiffing idea because they owned Scottish machine politics. What they unleashed is, in fact, a chain of events that can only ever end up with a fully federal UK or a split. I like the idea of a fully federal and equal UK. I'm ok with a split. I'm not OK for England forever to cough up to pay for Scottish uni fees, prescriptions, jam and unicorns.

    The only alternative to devolution on offer was the status quo. After eighteen years of a Tory government imposing policies on Scotland that Scots had overwhelmingly rejected that was not sustainable. Labour's solution was a partisan one, but a solution was needed.

  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808
    Wow. Terrible for all three English parties. 2-3% swingback could save a fair few seats but even so, this s potentially epochal.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020

    In hindsight, it was a brilliant strategy by the Dave to only win one seat in Scotland last time.

    I still can't process these swings, they are up there with say Newbury 93.

    Is a pity that Lord A didn't poll in Edinburgh or Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (Con gain there)

    Flotsam from the wreakage but Kincardine would also have been very interesting. I would be confident the tories would be ahead of the Lib Dems. But is the SNP ahead of them? Only just on a Gordon type swing, I think. Certainly on a central belt swing.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    DavidL said:

    What a depressing way to start the morning (unless you put money on it of course). Antifrank has been vindicated in the most spectacular way and the bookies have been caught with their trousers down or nothing under their kilt. Well done him.

    I am assuming this is one shot deal from Lord A. It is possible that a national campaign and the much higher profile the national parties get on TV (even although it is Ed we are talking about here) will claw this back a bit. I expect those seats that are close to get closer as Labour play their "keep the tories out" card once again and the odd one might even be saved.

    But this is at the margins where Dundee West isn't. I am not minded to vote for the muppet if it is not going to make any difference.

    It will get worse , who could believe how stupid Murphy is, gets filmed complaining about A&E at Monklands Hospital, the very one Labour were closing.
    What kind of idiots does he have in his team , ooopps McTernan and Dalgety. They are dumb and rotten to the core. Sure they will appreciate your vote.
  • I think I might close down my position on the SNP on SPIN when they re-open.

    It can only be downhill from now on for the SNP.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    I'm really interested to see Dumfries and Galloway.

    If the Tory vote holds up there around 30% and the Labour vote drops to below that, due to defectors to the SNP, then it could become a 3-way marginal that the Tories pick up through the middle.

    And my 9-1 bet would come true.

    @StuartDickson in on the Tories in Dumfries and Galloway at 25-1.
  • malcolmg said:

    This is Dockside Hooker when 10 Fleets are in port Territory.

    Huzzah to Antifrank for his brilliant strategy, I'm so glad I followed him in.

    "Only" a 15% swing in Gordon, compared to 25% ish elsewhere.

    Yep, it does look as if Antifrank is about to enter the PB Pantheon. One of the great political betting tips of all time. It certainly compares with the Smithson Obama call. Press lurkers may want to contact him. There is surely a story for them here.

    I have to say a blind man could have spotted it up here at least. It has been obvious from the referendum that Labour and Lib Dems were going to get a kicking. Duplitious lying toerags , people are less than happy with the VOW and Home Rule and been getting unhappier by the day.

    But Antifrank put his money where his mouth was. That takes cojones. If it was so obvious, he would not now be about to make an absolute killing.

  • Patrick said:

    felix said:

    DavidL said:

    What a depressing way to start the morning (unless you put money on it of course). Antifrank has been vindicated in the most spectacular way and the bookies have been caught with their trousers down or nothing under their kilt. Well done him.

    I am assuming this is one shot deal from Lord A. It is possible that a national campaign and the much higher profile the national parties get on TV (even although it is Ed we are talking about here) will claw this back a bit. I expect those seats that are close to get closer as Labour play their "keep the tories out" card once again and the odd one might even be saved.

    But this is at the margins where Dundee West isn't. I am not minded to vote for the muppet if it is not going to make any difference.

    The Union is broken - a Milipatch ain't gonna staunch the bleeding.
    Politicians need to get re-elected every few years, so inevitably short term thinking is endemic. That often means that they do something with scant thought for the longer term consequences. No doubt Labour thought devolution was a spiffing idea because they owned Scottish machine politics. What they unleashed is, in fact, a chain of events that can only ever end up with a fully federal UK or a split. I like the idea of a fully federal and equal UK. I'm ok with a split. I'm not OK for England forever to cough up to pay for Scottish uni fees, prescriptions, jam and unicorns.

    The only alternative to devolution on offer was the status quo. After eighteen years of a Tory government imposing policies on Scotland that Scots had overwhelmingly rejected that was not sustainable. Labour's solution was a partisan one, but a solution was needed.

    Well whatever solution that was forthcoming should have adhered to the basic principles of equality. An unequal devolution was only ever going to lead us through the event horizon. This mess is now unfixable other than through federation or exit. Cheers Tony.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    No surprises, though it's rather amusing to think about the MPs who believed they had jobs for life contemplating imminent unemployment as they come face to face with the SNP surge in black and white.

    I guess Labour will focus on the fact that even on these huge swings several seats are very tight. If some SNP voters can be won back a catastrophe may yet be converted into a mere disaster. But I wouldn't bet on it.

    Of course, if Labour does still end up the largest party despite these results it will be because it has won most seats in England. Expect a swift embrace of EV4EL at that point.

    The only reason anyone is interested in doing weird shit like EV4EL is because of the partisan balance. If Lab and Con are both down to 2 guys while the SNP ignore the English stuff then nobody will care about it any more.

    The SNP will do what they think is best to advance the case for separation. In a hung Parliament that will mean looking to rile the English by seeking to influence England-only decision-making. The easiest way to stop that is to remove them from the equation and if Labour is the biggest English party it becomes a no-brainer - the threat goes away and, what's more, the only way the SNP can then affect affairs is to vote with the Tories to bring a Labour government down. That - ahem - may not play well in Scotland. It will be an entirely partisan decision, I agree, but that is the nature of constitutional politics in the UK.

    SO, if it happens we can look forward to our referendum, people will not accept being second class citizens, we are either in the UK or out of it. England cannot decide our budgets and exclude us from decisions. Your solution is perfect for Scotland and will hasten the inevitable split.
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376

    Is this Ed's most important ever PMQs?

    If he gets thrashed by Dave again, Labour MPs are going to be in a very grumpy, fractious mood, and the media narrative writes itself.

    Any PB Tory who takes part in the Daily YouGov, vote Labour, #SaveEd

    There's, surely, no chance Labour can kick out Ed before May 7th so why not allow the blood-letting to ensue?

    If there's no such thing as zero chance in betting, the idea now of a Labour majority is as close as it gets. It's a case of which side of 250 they now fall.
  • Three points:

    1) I agree with the point made on previous threads by scotslass and Dair that weighting by reference to 2010 recalled vote risks underestimating the swing to the SNP, because voters tend to get confused with their vote in 2011, when the SNP did far better. These polls may actually understate how well the SNP are doing in these seats right now.

    2) It seems as if these results include limited unionist tactical voting. And Labour don't have much left to squeeze from either the Conservatives or the Lib Dems. As DavidL has already shown on thread, it's going to be hard for Labour to retain the limited tactical voting these polls show if the result looks like a foregone conclusion.

    3) These polls tell us little about seats where No did well. We need constituency polls in places like Edinburgh and the Borders. Please, your Lordship?
  • This is Dockside Hooker when 10 Fleets are in port Territory.

    Huzzah to Antifrank for his brilliant strategy, I'm so glad I followed him in.

    "Only" a 15% swing in Gordon, compared to 25% ish elsewhere.

    I've now got the classic "gambler's regret" that I didn't put more on. I only punted a dozen seats with £20-£30 on each. I could have, and should have, done so much more!
    My downside with my bets is that

    1) The insufferable Nats are going to be even more insufferable

    2) An Lab/SNP coalition might be the favourite now, which as a PB Tory Unionist, is bloody depressing.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Patrick said:

    felix said:

    DavidL said:

    What a depressing way to start the morning (unless you put money on it of course). Antifrank has been vindicated in the most spectacular way and the bookies have been caught with their trousers down or nothing under their kilt. Well done him.

    I am assuming this is one shot deal from Lord A. It is possible that a national campaign and the much higher profile the national parties get on TV (even although it is Ed we are talking about here) will claw this back a bit. I expect those seats that are close to get closer as Labour play their "keep the tories out" card once again and the odd one might even be saved.

    But this is at the margins where Dundee West isn't. I am not minded to vote for the muppet if it is not going to make any difference.

    The Union is broken - a Milipatch ain't gonna staunch the bleeding.
    Politicians need to get re-elected every few years, so inevitably short term thinking is endemic. That often means that they do something with scant thought for the longer term consequences. No doubt Labour thought devolution was a spiffing idea because they owned Scottish machine politics. What they unleashed is, in fact, a chain of events that can only ever end up with a fully federal UK or a split. I like the idea of a fully federal and equal UK. I'm ok with a split. I'm not OK for England forever to cough up to pay for Scottish uni fees, prescriptions, jam and unicorns.
    Indulging your fantasies again Patrick.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,705
    What odds a second independence referendum in the next parliament? With a large SNP block and a minority Tory/Lab administration it surely can't be ruled out.
  • Patrick said:

    Patrick said:

    felix said:

    DavidL said:

    What a depressing way to start the morning (unless you put money on it of course). Antifrank has been vindicated in the most spectacular way and the bookies have been caught with their trousers down or nothing under their kilt. Well done him.

    I am assuming this is one shot deal from Lord A. It is possible that a national campaign and the much higher profile the national parties get on TV (even although it is Ed we are talking about here) will claw this back a bit. I expect those seats that are close to get closer as Labour play their "keep the tories out" card once again and the odd one might even be saved.

    But this is at the margins where Dundee West isn't. I am not minded to vote for the muppet if it is not going to make any difference.

    The Union is broken - a Milipatch ain't gonna staunch the bleeding.
    Politicians need to get re-elected every few years, so inevitably short term thinking is endemic. That often means that they do something with scant thought for the longer term consequences. No doubt Labour thought devolution was a spiffing idea because they owned Scottish machine politics. What they unleashed is, in fact, a chain of events that can only ever end up with a fully federal UK or a split. I like the idea of a fully federal and equal UK. I'm ok with a split. I'm not OK for England forever to cough up to pay for Scottish uni fees, prescriptions, jam and unicorns.

    The only alternative to devolution on offer was the status quo. After eighteen years of a Tory government imposing policies on Scotland that Scots had overwhelmingly rejected that was not sustainable. Labour's solution was a partisan one, but a solution was needed.

    Well whatever solution that was forthcoming should have adhered to the basic principles of equality. An unequal devolution was only ever going to lead us through the event horizon. This mess is now unfixable other than through federation or exit. Cheers Tony.

    Tony Blair and the Labour victory did not just appear out of a vacuum. We have got to where we have got to today as the result of decisions taken in Westminster over the course of decades.
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376

    This is Dockside Hooker when 10 Fleets are in port Territory.

    Huzzah to Antifrank for his brilliant strategy, I'm so glad I followed him in.

    "Only" a 15% swing in Gordon, compared to 25% ish elsewhere.

    I've now got the classic "gambler's regret" that I didn't put more on. I only punted a dozen seats with £20-£30 on each. I could have, and should have, done so much more!

    2) An Lab/SNP coalition might be the favourite now, which as a PB Tory Unionist, is bloody depressing.
    There's no real logic to that though? If a Lab majority wasn't your favourite then a LAB/SNP one can't be. We're talking straight SLAB to SNP don't forget. Hold your nerve my friend.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    malcolmg said:

    This is Dockside Hooker when 10 Fleets are in port Territory.

    Huzzah to Antifrank for his brilliant strategy, I'm so glad I followed him in.

    "Only" a 15% swing in Gordon, compared to 25% ish elsewhere.

    Yep, it does look as if Antifrank is about to enter the PB Pantheon. One of the great political betting tips of all time. It certainly compares with the Smithson Obama call. Press lurkers may want to contact him. There is surely a story for them here.

    I have to say a blind man could have spotted it up here at least. It has been obvious from the referendum that Labour and Lib Dems were going to get a kicking. Duplitious lying toerags , people are less than happy with the VOW and Home Rule and been getting unhappier by the day.

    But Antifrank put his money where his mouth was. That takes cojones. If it was so obvious, he would not now be about to make an absolute killing.

    I do agree he was totally correct unlike most of the media and pundits. He does have the luxury of having plenty of money to burn so not exactly life or death.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,961
    edited February 2015

    Is this Ed's most important ever PMQs?

    If he gets thrashed by Dave again, Labour MPs are going to be in a very grumpy, fractious mood, and the media narrative writes itself.

    Any PB Tory who takes part in the Daily YouGov, vote Labour, #SaveEd

    It's Wednesday; it's PMQs; so the pb Tories will declare unconditional victory for their man. Then I'll ask if this means CCHQ has ballsed up its debates strategy, and the pb Tories will explain that no, it is an act of mercy that Cameron does not want to take on Miliband.
    You should listen to the PB Tories, we've been right about Ed all along.

    We said he was crap, look at the evidence, he's about to turn Scotland into a near Labour MP free zone.

    PB Tories, always right, we always learn.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Patrick said:

    Patrick said:

    felix said:

    DavidL said:

    What a depressing way to start the morning (unless you put money on it of course). Antifrank has been vindicated in the most spectacular way and the bookies have been caught with their trousers down or nothing under their kilt. Well done him.

    I am assuming this is one shot deal from Lord A. It is possible that a national campaign and the much higher profile the national parties get on TV (even although it is Ed we are talking about here) will claw this back a bit. I expect those seats that are close to get closer as Labour play their "keep the tories out" card once again and the odd one might even be saved.

    But this is at the margins where Dundee West isn't. I am not minded to vote for the muppet if it is not going to make any difference.

    The Union is broken - a Milipatch ain't gonna staunch the bleeding.
    Politicians need to get re-elected every few years, so inevitably short term thinking is endemic. That often means that they do something with scant thought for the longer term consequences. No doubt Labour thought devolution was a spiffing idea because they owned Scottish machine politics. What they unleashed is, in fact, a chain of events that can only ever end up with a fully federal UK or a split. I like the idea of a fully federal and equal UK. I'm ok with a split. I'm not OK for England forever to cough up to pay for Scottish uni fees, prescriptions, jam and unicorns.

    The only alternative to devolution on offer was the status quo. After eighteen years of a Tory government imposing policies on Scotland that Scots had overwhelmingly rejected that was not sustainable. Labour's solution was a partisan one, but a solution was needed.

    Well whatever solution that was forthcoming should have adhered to the basic principles of equality. An unequal devolution was only ever going to lead us through the event horizon. This mess is now unfixable other than through federation or exit. Cheers Tony.
    The issue is they did not solve it , they left it totally unbalanced with all the power still in Westminster, their sticking plaster based on them always being in power was typical of the no users.
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    So Labour are 50 seats behind the Tories across the UK. If they lose say 25 (being generous) of their Scottish seats, do they really think they are going to take say 25 seats off the Lib Dems and 25 seats off the Tories to become largest party?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Is this Ed's most important ever PMQs?

    If he gets thrashed by Dave again, Labour MPs are going to be in a very grumpy, fractious mood, and the media narrative writes itself.

    Any PB Tory who takes part in the Daily YouGov, vote Labour, #SaveEd

    It's Wednesday; it's PMQs; so the pb Tories will declare unconditional victory for their man. Then I'll ask if this means CCHQ has ballsed up its debates strategy, and the pb Tories will explain that no, it is an act of mercy that Cameron does not want to take on Miliband.
    You should listen to the PB Tories, we've been right about Ed all along.

    We said he was crap, look at the evidence, he's about to turn Scotland into a near Labour MP free zone.

    PB Tories, always right, we always learn.
    The areas that voted YES in the Indyref also had the lowest turnout.

    Ed may be spared a wipeout yet.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020

    I think I might close down my position on the SNP on SPIN when they re-open.

    It can only be downhill from now on for the SNP.

    I think that is excellent thinking. There will inevitably be a huge reaction to this polling but it is worth noting that it is probably already at least a couple of weeks out of date. Recent subsamples etc have indicated a possible Labour recovery albeit extremely modest in the context of these swings. This may (or may not) offset antifrank's weighting point.
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900

    EdM is very, very lucky that in England UKIP is clearly a right-wing party. If it had evolved as a party of the centre-left it might well have spelled the complete end of Labour, enjoying swings in Labour heartlands down south comparable to those the SNP is now getting in Scotland.

    Not really, they're evolving into a statist right-wing party, which many working class people want
  • malcolmg said:

    This is Dockside Hooker when 10 Fleets are in port Territory.

    Huzzah to Antifrank for his brilliant strategy, I'm so glad I followed him in.

    "Only" a 15% swing in Gordon, compared to 25% ish elsewhere.

    Yep, it does look as if Antifrank is about to enter the PB Pantheon. One of the great political betting tips of all time. It certainly compares with the Smithson Obama call. Press lurkers may want to contact him. There is surely a story for them here.

    I have to say a blind man could have spotted it up here at least. It has been obvious from the referendum that Labour and Lib Dems were going to get a kicking. Duplitious lying toerags , people are less than happy with the VOW and Home Rule and been getting unhappier by the day.

    But Antifrank put his money where his mouth was. That takes cojones. If it was so obvious, he would not now be about to make an absolute killing.

    I think it was obvious. That's why I bored people senseless with it for months.

    The only thing I did that was a bit clever was to get on the SNP at very long odds in constituencies before the referendum result, and I got a great result from that for the wrong reason. Not that I'm complaining.

    From late October onwards the odds were consistently behind the polling curve, as punters collectively betrayed a lack of imagination about what the national polling figures would look like in individual constituencies. This was true as late as last night. That sluggishness was the most baffling trend in political betting that I can recall in years.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    Is this Ed's most important ever PMQs?

    If he gets thrashed by Dave again, Labour MPs are going to be in a very grumpy, fractious mood, and the media narrative writes itself.

    Any PB Tory who takes part in the Daily YouGov, vote Labour, #SaveEd

    It's Wednesday; it's PMQs; so the pb Tories will declare unconditional victory for their man. Then I'll ask if this means CCHQ has ballsed up its debates strategy, and the pb Tories will explain that no, it is an act of mercy that Cameron does not want to take on Miliband.
    You should listen to the PB Tories, we've been right about Ed all along.

    We said he was crap, look at the evidence, he's about to turn Scotland into a near Labour MP free zone.

    PB Tories, always right, we always learn.
    He did send the idiot Murphy and the remnants of the Blairites to finish off the job , so at least has a sense of humour.
  • Jonathan said:

    What odds a second independence referendum in the next parliament? With a large SNP block and a minority Tory/Lab administration it surely can't be ruled out.

    It's in Westminster's gift. I doubt it will happen. The Parliament after that, maybe.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    This is Dockside Hooker when 10 Fleets are in port Territory.

    Huzzah to Antifrank for his brilliant strategy, I'm so glad I followed him in.

    "Only" a 15% swing in Gordon, compared to 25% ish elsewhere.

    I've now got the classic "gambler's regret" that I didn't put more on. I only punted a dozen seats with £20-£30 on each. I could have, and should have, done so much more!
    My downside with my bets is that

    1) The insufferable Nats are going to be even more insufferable

    2) An Lab/SNP coalition might be the favourite now, which as a PB Tory Unionist, is bloody depressing.
    A Lab/SNP coalition - it's still unlikely, minority Gov't more likely.

    BUT

    I've covered SNP combinations in my betting.
  • Is this Ed's most important ever PMQs?

    If he gets thrashed by Dave again, Labour MPs are going to be in a very grumpy, fractious mood, and the media narrative writes itself.

    Any PB Tory who takes part in the Daily YouGov, vote Labour, #SaveEd

    It's Wednesday; it's PMQs; so the pb Tories will declare unconditional victory for their man. Then I'll ask if this means CCHQ has ballsed up its debates strategy, and the pb Tories will explain that no, it is an act of mercy that Cameron does not want to take on Miliband.
    You should listen to the PB Tories, we've been right about Ed all along.

    We said he was crap, look at the evidence, he's about to turn Scotland into a near Labour MP free zone.

    PB Tories, always right, we always learn.

    I do not see myself as a PB Tory. On the day EdM was elected I said it was a bad day for Labour. I think that on this one I have been proved right.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    antifrank said:

    malcolmg said:

    This is Dockside Hooker when 10 Fleets are in port Territory.

    Huzzah to Antifrank for his brilliant strategy, I'm so glad I followed him in.

    "Only" a 15% swing in Gordon, compared to 25% ish elsewhere.

    Yep, it does look as if Antifrank is about to enter the PB Pantheon. One of the great political betting tips of all time. It certainly compares with the Smithson Obama call. Press lurkers may want to contact him. There is surely a story for them here.

    I have to say a blind man could have spotted it up here at least. It has been obvious from the referendum that Labour and Lib Dems were going to get a kicking. Duplitious lying toerags , people are less than happy with the VOW and Home Rule and been getting unhappier by the day.

    But Antifrank put his money where his mouth was. That takes cojones. If it was so obvious, he would not now be about to make an absolute killing.

    I think it was obvious. That's why I bored people senseless with it for months.

    The only thing I did that was a bit clever was to get on the SNP at very long odds in constituencies before the referendum result, and I got a great result from that for the wrong reason. Not that I'm complaining.

    From late October onwards the odds were consistently behind the polling curve, as punters collectively betrayed a lack of imagination about what the national polling figures would look like in individual constituencies. This was true as late as last night. That sluggishness was the most baffling trend in political betting that I can recall in years.
    Still an excellent piece of work
  • Millsy said:

    EdM is very, very lucky that in England UKIP is clearly a right-wing party. If it had evolved as a party of the centre-left it might well have spelled the complete end of Labour, enjoying swings in Labour heartlands down south comparable to those the SNP is now getting in Scotland.

    Not really, they're evolving into a statist right-wing party, which many working class people want

    It's what that bloc of the working class that has always voted Tory might want, but it's not going to win over many Labour voters. The SNP has got tens of thousands of straight switchers. UKIP won't get close to that because Labour voters know that UKIP's leadership is thoroughly Thatcherite.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Millsy said:

    So Labour are 50 seats behind the Tories across the UK. If they lose say 25 (being generous) of their Scottish seats, do they really think they are going to take say 25 seats off the Lib Dems and 25 seats off the Tories to become largest party?

    And with a mass of funding being siphoned off to Scotland in a futile attempt to stop the rot.

    It looks like Ed is going to have to re-enact Waterloo with his Imperial Guard already lying dead on the battlefield.

  • By the way - this thread is officially the longest header in PB history. Took me 21 Page Downs to reach the Post Comment box.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    edited February 2015
    One point

    Ed Miliband has worse ratings than Cameron

    IN GLASGOW

    Which is why I don't think there will be much "ballot box" switching to Labour.
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    antifrank said:

    malcolmg said:

    This is Dockside Hooker when 10 Fleets are in port Territory.

    Huzzah to Antifrank for his brilliant strategy, I'm so glad I followed him in.

    "Only" a 15% swing in Gordon, compared to 25% ish elsewhere.

    Yep, it does look as if Antifrank is about to enter the PB Pantheon. One of the great political betting tips of all time. It certainly compares with the Smithson Obama call. Press lurkers may want to contact him. There is surely a story for them here.

    I have to say a blind man could have spotted it up here at least. It has been obvious from the referendum that Labour and Lib Dems were going to get a kicking. Duplitious lying toerags , people are less than happy with the VOW and Home Rule and been getting unhappier by the day.

    But Antifrank put his money where his mouth was. That takes cojones. If it was so obvious, he would not now be about to make an absolute killing.

    I think it was obvious. That's why I bored people senseless with it for months.

    The only thing I did that was a bit clever was to get on the SNP at very long odds in constituencies before the referendum result, and I got a great result from that for the wrong reason. Not that I'm complaining.

    From late October onwards the odds were consistently behind the polling curve, as punters collectively betrayed a lack of imagination about what the national polling figures would look like in individual constituencies. This was true as late as last night. That sluggishness was the most baffling trend in political betting that I can recall in years.
    Antifrank, bravo all the same and for the massive hat tip. Tell me, if you would, about the LibDems. What's your punting head telling you?
  • Is this Ed's most important ever PMQs?

    If he gets thrashed by Dave again, Labour MPs are going to be in a very grumpy, fractious mood, and the media narrative writes itself.

    Any PB Tory who takes part in the Daily YouGov, vote Labour, #SaveEd

    It's Wednesday; it's PMQs; so the pb Tories will declare unconditional victory for their man. Then I'll ask if this means CCHQ has ballsed up its debates strategy, and the pb Tories will explain that no, it is an act of mercy that Cameron does not want to take on Miliband.
    You should listen to the PB Tories, we've been right about Ed all along.

    We said he was crap, look at the evidence, he's about to turn Scotland into a near Labour MP free zone.

    PB Tories, always right, we always learn.

    I do not see myself as a PB Tory. On the day EdM was elected I said it was a bad day for Labour. I think that on this one I have been proved right.

    As a wise woman once said, there is no alternative, or rather there was no better leadership candidate. David Miliband has pretty much the same flaws as his brother, substituting bananas for bacon sandwiches; Ed Balls is unliked by the electorate; Andy Burnham is a lightweight as we have seen over the open goal of the NHS. Who does that leave? Diane Abbott?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,221
    Does anyone have a link to the majorities in Scotland? I'm sure I've seen it on here before but can't remember where. Is Glasgow North East Labour's safest seat in Scotland?
  • Millsy said:

    EdM is very, very lucky that in England UKIP is clearly a right-wing party. If it had evolved as a party of the centre-left it might well have spelled the complete end of Labour, enjoying swings in Labour heartlands down south comparable to those the SNP is now getting in Scotland.

    Not really, they're evolving into a statist right-wing party, which many working class people want

    It's what that bloc of the working class that has always voted Tory might want, but it's not going to win over many Labour voters. The SNP has got tens of thousands of straight switchers. UKIP won't get close to that because Labour voters know that UKIP's leadership is thoroughly Thatcherite.

    Thatcher had a top rate of income tax of 60% for nine years and from the first day of her premiership to the last subsidised the coal industry with taxpayers money.

    A year or two of EdM as PM and the wwc will switching to UKIP in massive numbers.

  • Is this Ed's most important ever PMQs?

    If he gets thrashed by Dave again, Labour MPs are going to be in a very grumpy, fractious mood, and the media narrative writes itself.

    Any PB Tory who takes part in the Daily YouGov, vote Labour, #SaveEd

    It's Wednesday; it's PMQs; so the pb Tories will declare unconditional victory for their man. Then I'll ask if this means CCHQ has ballsed up its debates strategy, and the pb Tories will explain that no, it is an act of mercy that Cameron does not want to take on Miliband.
    You should listen to the PB Tories, we've been right about Ed all along.

    We said he was crap, look at the evidence, he's about to turn Scotland into a near Labour MP free zone.

    PB Tories, always right, we always learn.

    I do not see myself as a PB Tory. On the day EdM was elected I said it was a bad day for Labour. I think that on this one I have been proved right.

    You still thought he understood places like Doncaster though despite some of us explaining otherwise.

    In any case you were a fan of his brother and he wouldn't have been any better.
  • I'm really interested to see Dumfries and Galloway.

    If the Tory vote holds up there around 30% and the Labour vote drops to below that, due to defectors to the SNP, then it could become a 3-way marginal that the Tories pick up through the middle.

    And my 9-1 bet would come true.

    The Tories are down in every seat quoted above - why would D&G be different?
    They are down from 19% to 11% in Gordon - some of us can remember when Gordon was the "safest Tory seat in Scotland". (notionally pre-1997)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    edited February 2015
    On the Lib Dems - well to my mind it is obvious what is happening.

    The Lib Dems that have moved themselves away from the Government - or have never been in it, Paul Burstow, Norman Baker, John Pugh will enjoy a massive boost (Relative to what they should have done on UNS)


    Those that are in Government could well suffer the most - the 6-1 on Conservatives taking Twickenham is not as awful as perhaps one may think. Danny Alexander is losing his seat because of this.

    Huppert has a very decent chance of holding on, Clegg is safe as Hallam is a centre-right constituency naturally and he has a big enough majority to cushion.

    Carmichael could go, though his majority and the big No vote should save him.

    Charlie Kennedy may be in danger, but I'd guess he'd be suffering a smaller swing than Danny.

    Viscount Thurso may prove to be THE special case of the night.
  • Is this Ed's most important ever PMQs?

    If he gets thrashed by Dave again, Labour MPs are going to be in a very grumpy, fractious mood, and the media narrative writes itself.

    Any PB Tory who takes part in the Daily YouGov, vote Labour, #SaveEd

    It's Wednesday; it's PMQs; so the pb Tories will declare unconditional victory for their man. Then I'll ask if this means CCHQ has ballsed up its debates strategy, and the pb Tories will explain that no, it is an act of mercy that Cameron does not want to take on Miliband.
    You should listen to the PB Tories, we've been right about Ed all along.

    We said he was crap, look at the evidence, he's about to turn Scotland into a near Labour MP free zone.

    PB Tories, always right, we always learn.

    I do not see myself as a PB Tory. On the day EdM was elected I said it was a bad day for Labour. I think that on this one I have been proved right.

    You still thought he understood places like Doncaster though despite some of us explaining otherwise.

    In any case you were a fan of his brother and he wouldn't have been any better.

    It's all ifs and maybes. What is certain is that EdM has been catastrophic for Labour. I think he was the worst choice outside of Abbott.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,705

    Is this Ed's most important ever PMQs?

    If he gets thrashed by Dave again, Labour MPs are going to be in a very grumpy, fractious mood, and the media narrative writes itself.

    Any PB Tory who takes part in the Daily YouGov, vote Labour, #SaveEd

    It's Wednesday; it's PMQs; so the pb Tories will declare unconditional victory for their man. Then I'll ask if this means CCHQ has ballsed up its debates strategy, and the pb Tories will explain that no, it is an act of mercy that Cameron does not want to take on Miliband.
    You should listen to the PB Tories, we've been right about Ed all along.

    We said he was crap, look at the evidence, he's about to turn Scotland into a near Labour MP free zone.

    PB Tories, always right, we always learn.

    I do not see myself as a PB Tory. On the day EdM was elected I said it was a bad day for Labour. I think that on this one I have been proved right.

    As a wise woman once said, there is no alternative, or rather there was no better leadership candidate. David Miliband has pretty much the same flaws as his brother, substituting bananas for bacon sandwiches; Ed Balls is unliked by the electorate; Andy Burnham is a lightweight as we have seen over the open goal of the NHS. Who does that leave? Diane Abbott?
    Each of the five had a part of the jigsaw of the perfect leader.

    DavidM. Charisma and brains
    EdM. Able to unite party
    EdB. Focussed, aggressive desire to win
    AndyB. Human, warm
    DianneA. Female

    Just bad luck one person didn't have it all. EdB/DavidM were my choice.
  • Where am I?
  • antifrank said:

    malcolmg said:

    This is Dockside Hooker when 10 Fleets are in port Territory.

    Huzzah to Antifrank for his brilliant strategy, I'm so glad I followed him in.

    "Only" a 15% swing in Gordon, compared to 25% ish elsewhere.

    Yep, it does look as if Antifrank is about to enter the PB Pantheon. One of the great political betting tips of all time. It certainly compares with the Smithson Obama call. Press lurkers may want to contact him. There is surely a story for them here.

    I have to say a blind man could have spotted it up here at least. It has been obvious from the referendum that Labour and Lib Dems were going to get a kicking. Duplitious lying toerags , people are less than happy with the VOW and Home Rule and been getting unhappier by the day.

    But Antifrank put his money where his mouth was. That takes cojones. If it was so obvious, he would not now be about to make an absolute killing.

    I think it was obvious. That's why I bored people senseless with it for months.

    The only thing I did that was a bit clever was to get on the SNP at very long odds in constituencies before the referendum result, and I got a great result from that for the wrong reason. Not that I'm complaining.

    From late October onwards the odds were consistently behind the polling curve, as punters collectively betrayed a lack of imagination about what the national polling figures would look like in individual constituencies. This was true as late as last night. That sluggishness was the most baffling trend in political betting that I can recall in years.
    I think it's because UK punters (probably at least 80% by value outside Scotland) weren't confident they really understood Scotland, or how it works politically. In 2010GE it unexpectedly swung to Labour, for instance.

    A couple of others might have been spooked by the SNP ramping of taking Glasgow council a few years back, where Labour comfortably held on. Such as OGH.
  • I've been under the impression that the libdems would still be the 3rd largest party come the general election but if the other polls released today look anything like this then the SNP could do spectacularly well come the general election.

    I'm trying to work out if the LibDems could come 6th on vote share behind UKIP, Greens and SNP.
    With Scotland being approximately 10% of the UK I think the SNP would have to get over 50% for that to happen even if the LibDems have a total disaster.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    tlg86 said:

    Does anyone have a link to the majorities in Scotland? I'm sure I've seen it on here before but can't remember where. Is Glasgow North East Labour's safest seat in Scotland?

    Yes, I think it's the second safest seat in the whole of Britain for Labour - to East Ham.
  • PS. Antifrank - congratulations. Bravo! A superb peformance.

    A lot of punters have a lot to thank him for. Not only has he made himself a lot of money, but through his excellent timely tips, cool logic and forensic analysis, made a lot of us quite a bit of cash as well.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    I'm really interested to see Dumfries and Galloway.

    If the Tory vote holds up there around 30% and the Labour vote drops to below that, due to defectors to the SNP, then it could become a 3-way marginal that the Tories pick up through the middle.

    And my 9-1 bet would come true.

    The Tories are down in every seat quoted above - why would D&G be different?
    They are down from 19% to 11% in Gordon - some of us can remember when Gordon was the "safest Tory seat in Scotland". (notionally pre-1997)
    It's in the borders, Holyrood elections indicate the SNP should be less strong there.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    F1: it's the last day of the first test. Two more tests, four days each, after this, and then we have the first race in mid-March.
  • antifrank said:

    malcolmg said:

    This is Dockside Hooker when 10 Fleets are in port Territory.

    Huzzah to Antifrank for his brilliant strategy, I'm so glad I followed him in.

    "Only" a 15% swing in Gordon, compared to 25% ish elsewhere.

    Yep, it does look as if Antifrank is about to enter the PB Pantheon. One of the great political betting tips of all time. It certainly compares with the Smithson Obama call. Press lurkers may want to contact him. There is surely a story for them here.

    I have to say a blind man could have spotted it up here at least. It has been obvious from the referendum that Labour and Lib Dems were going to get a kicking. Duplitious lying toerags , people are less than happy with the VOW and Home Rule and been getting unhappier by the day.

    But Antifrank put his money where his mouth was. That takes cojones. If it was so obvious, he would not now be about to make an absolute killing.

    I think it was obvious. That's why I bored people senseless with it for months.

    The only thing I did that was a bit clever was to get on the SNP at very long odds in constituencies before the referendum result, and I got a great result from that for the wrong reason. Not that I'm complaining.

    From late October onwards the odds were consistently behind the polling curve, as punters collectively betrayed a lack of imagination about what the national polling figures would look like in individual constituencies. This was true as late as last night. That sluggishness was the most baffling trend in political betting that I can recall in years.
    I think it's because UK punters (probably at least 80% by value outside Scotland) weren't confident they really understood Scotland, or how it works politically. In 2010GE it unexpectedly swung to Labour, for instance.

    A couple of others might have been spooked by the SNP ramping of taking Glasgow council a few years back, where Labour comfortably held on. Such as OGH.
    There was no shortage of SNP ramping before 2010 as well.

    Now assuming we see a big shift in the constituency betting odds there might be value then betting on Labour.
  • Jonathan said:

    Is this Ed's most important ever PMQs?

    If he gets thrashed by Dave again, Labour MPs are going to be in a very grumpy, fractious mood, and the media narrative writes itself.

    Any PB Tory who takes part in the Daily YouGov, vote Labour, #SaveEd

    It's Wednesday; it's PMQs; so the pb Tories will declare unconditional victory for their man. Then I'll ask if this means CCHQ has ballsed up its debates strategy, and the pb Tories will explain that no, it is an act of mercy that Cameron does not want to take on Miliband.
    You should listen to the PB Tories, we've been right about Ed all along.

    We said he was crap, look at the evidence, he's about to turn Scotland into a near Labour MP free zone.

    PB Tories, always right, we always learn.

    I do not see myself as a PB Tory. On the day EdM was elected I said it was a bad day for Labour. I think that on this one I have been proved right.

    As a wise woman once said, there is no alternative, or rather there was no better leadership candidate. David Miliband has pretty much the same flaws as his brother, substituting bananas for bacon sandwiches; Ed Balls is unliked by the electorate; Andy Burnham is a lightweight as we have seen over the open goal of the NHS. Who does that leave? Diane Abbott?
    Each of the five had a part of the jigsaw of the perfect leader.

    DavidM. Charisma and brains
    EdM. Able to unite party
    EdB. Focussed, aggressive desire to win
    AndyB. Human, warm
    DianneA. Female

    Just bad luck one person didn't have it all. EdB/DavidM were my choice.
    So you think David Miliband has charisma and brains ???

    Cowardice and complacency are his defining features.

    Plus money-grubbing.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    "What is certain is that EdM has been catastrophic for Labour. ..."

    It is again worth emphasising that all of Labour's Scottish catastrophe has happened on Ed's watch. He has not yet been held to account for this.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm really interested to see Dumfries and Galloway.

    If the Tory vote holds up there around 30% and the Labour vote drops to below that, due to defectors to the SNP, then it could become a 3-way marginal that the Tories pick up through the middle.

    And my 9-1 bet would come true.

    The Tories are down in every seat quoted above - why would D&G be different?
    They are down from 19% to 11% in Gordon - some of us can remember when Gordon was the "safest Tory seat in Scotland". (notionally pre-1997)
    It's in the borders, Holyrood elections indicate the SNP should be less strong there.
    Yougov only has the Tories down by 1% in Scotland as a whole. It's logical their support would hold up best in the Borders. With luck, they could emerge with 2 or 3 seats.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited February 2015
    TGOHF said:


    The areas that voted YES in the Indyref also had the lowest turnout.

    Ed may be spared a wipeout yet.

    There is an insignificant negative relationship between turnout and IndyRef vote. If you remove Glasgow from the results then it turns into a (insignificant) positive relationship between turnout and vote.

    West Dunbartonshire, which had the second highest Yes votes, was one of the highest turnout areas.

    14 council areas had higher than national average Yes votes, the mistake is just to concentrate on the ones that had higher than 50%.
This discussion has been closed.