So Gord's job is done, can we "excommunicate" him so to speak and make him Governor of something we still have in the Empire that's at least 8000 miles away?
You mean that little patch in Hawaii? Or Pitcairn...?
I think that you mean Dave Cameron, who has played a blinder.
Cameron has got away with it, but this would be a triumph for Brown if No has won. The Union preserved and more powers for Scotland. He'll surely run for Holyrood now, along with other big Labour beasts.
So Gord's job is done, can we "excommunicate" him so to speak and make him Governor of something we still have in the Empire that's at least 8000 miles away?
You mean that little patch in Hawaii? Or Pitcairn...?
Credit where's credits due. That was a rocking speech. Devolved Scotland should be run by Labour with Brown in charge, (the natural order of things in Scotland is socialism), get the SNP out once and for all. The poison they've spread with this referendum will take years to recover from, if at all.
If the SNP are still running the show after the next Holyrood poll then the seeping of anti English puss will just continue. Don't forget,at least 40-45% of the Scottish population will hold a massive grudge and feel cheated from tomorrow onwards.
Scotland have gained nothing that was off the table three months ago, while the whole of England are raving about the injustice of West Lothian and Barnett.
Say what you like about the left, but they are superb at generating myths. Brown had virtually no impact in reality. How many polls were yes ahead in prior to his speech? How many after his speech? No were always going to win.
So back to Devomax, how bad for the Tories will that be politically? Not as bad as a YES result, but still the rest of the country won't like Devomax at all.
I actually wept when I saw that last night. And this from someone whose first post on PB.com was to slag the man off mercilessly. If the result is No then I'm prepared to forget about the gold sell-off thing.
If he'd have given more speeches like that when in office, he'd have been more formidable a leader. And I say that as someone who had very little time for Brown or his policies.
As it was, he came across as a ineffectual, awkward, bumbling, thoroughly uncharismatic man.
If it is a no I think this might well be one of the hollowest victories in British electoral history because it will have resolved nothing and opened up several more cans of worms regarding the nature of the Union
RUMOURS of postal votes in the Edinburgh West area being: YES - 23% NO - 77%
Poatal votes ARE NOT COUNTED SEPARATELY. The Counting Officers in each of the 32 areas verify the signature and date of birth for the postal voter and they are then added to the ballot papers cast today.
PS individual counting areas will couint the total number of vates cast and release turnout figures before sorting into Yes/No/Doubtful and making a count of each.
Its funny when you look at betting odds in a different way
ie YES is currently 12/1 and it seems like its 1200/1 because of the momentum,but if you backed a 12/1 shot in the Grand National you'd be on the second or third fav and fancy your chances
I think that you mean Dave Cameron, who has played a blinder.
You're joking, right?
Called a referendum he didn't have to. Put a 300 year old union in jeopardy. Didn't offer devomax, until he did at the last minute. Alienated most of England. Caused angst to many Scots in England and English in Scotland. Caused rifts to open in Scotland that won't be healed for years.
Yeah, blinding.
Cannot wait for for this master negotiator to go to Europe and bring back peace in our time a wonderful settlement from the EU.
Say what you like about the left, but they are superb at generating myths. Brown had virtually no impact in reality. How many polls were yes ahead in prior to his speech? How many after his speech? No were always going to win.
Exactly.
Brown could have given such a speech weeks ago, but waited until the polls told him what to do.
Say what you like about the left, but they are superb at generating myths. Brown had virtually no impact in reality. How many polls were yes ahead in prior to his speech? How many after his speech? No were always going to win.
Agree,so some on here thinks brown speech changed thousands of votes,get real.
Say what you like about the left, but they are superb at generating myths. Brown had virtually no impact in reality. How many polls were yes ahead in prior to his speech? How many after his speech? No were always going to win.
Agree,so some on here thinks brown speech changed thousands of votes,get real.
And it is what people on here think that is really important in shaping how history views this.
I don't deny that Brown had an impact - but I suspect it is currently being overstated. And as I have said many times, if the Labour team at the heart of the No campaign hadn't made such a hash of it, it would never have got so close.
I think that you mean Dave Cameron, who has played a blinder.
You're joking, right?
Called a referendum he didn't have to. Put a 300 year old union in jeopardy. Didn't offer devomax, until he did at the last minute. Alienated most of England. Caused angst to many Scots in England and English in Scotland. Caused rifts to open in Scotland that won't be healed for years.
Yeah, blinding.
Cannot wait for for this master negotiator to go to Europe and bring back peace in our time a wonderful settlement from the EU.
Cameron would have been slated by you if he had lost, so you need to credit him for the victory.
He has killed the Scottish indy movement for a generation, possibly for all time.
It looks as if for the first time ever, Scots have voted for Union. A once in 305 years event.
I'm not sure whether YouGov's NOTexit poll takes account of postal votes or not. Also, assuming it was telephone based, it might still contain an element of "Shy Nos".All told, I wouldn't be surprised to see their 46% figure for Yes votes decline by the odd percentage point or so.
Finally cleared the decks, had a couple of hours sleep to prepare for the marathon. Bring tonight on - what a mouthwatering prospect of an independent Scotland. Its going to be a hoot whatever the result.
If it is a no I think this might well be one of the hollowest victories in British electoral history because it will have resolved nothing and opened up several more cans of worms regarding the nature of the Union
It's told us people who live in Scotland- that are interested in politics - that we, REALLY, do not want to get the normal people involved, ever, ever, again.
Anyone who thinks Brown had any influence on anything is deluded. No one pays any attention to Brown. apart from overseas nutters who pay to hear him speak. That's actually unbelievable and incredible.
I actually wept when I saw that last night. And this from someone whose first post on PB.com was to slag the man off mercilessly. If the result is No then I'm prepared to forget about the gold sell-off thing.
Some bloke in the FT in 2011: The continued run of the gold price is a global investment sensation. Recently it broke the $1,500 an ounce barrier for the first time, 30 per cent higher than a year ago. Surely this lays bare the extraordinary foolishness of Gordon Brown’s announcement, 12 years ago this week, that the UK Treasury would sell off some of Britain’s gold holdings?
Actually, no. On this one occasion, Mr Brown’s decision was the right one.
OK, looks like turnout really is going to be astronomical. Guardian liveblog says nearly 85% in Airdrie and Coatbridge, and they're typically among the lower turnouts in general elections.
So back to Devomax, how bad for the Tories will that be politically? Not as bad as a YES result, but still the rest of the country won't like Devomax at all.
Cameron aside. I'm not sure that a yes vote would have been that bad for the Tories. After all the focus then would have moved onto Labour and its 67MPs from devolved region and Tories could push the English question.
If its devomax as looks likely now they have signed up to Barnett continuation the Tories are in for a pasting for obvious reasons like raising English tuition fees to £9k whilst subsidising a Scottish system where University Tuition Fees do not exist.
Let me bethe first to admit that I've always made no secret of the fact that I despise Gordon Brown.....and I still do. A devo-whatever Scotland is welcome to him.
Say what you like about the left, but they are superb at generating myths. Brown had virtually no impact in reality. How many polls were yes ahead in prior to his speech? How many after his speech? No were always going to win.
Agree,so some on here thinks brown speech changed thousands of votes,get real.
For the record - the Brown speech changing thousands sounds very plausible to me.
So back to Devomax, how bad for the Tories will that be politically? Not as bad as a YES result, but still the rest of the country won't like Devomax at all.
Devomax iis not on offer from any of the Westminster parties - what has been talked about is Calman with a bit more and no promises about maintaining the other 60% of public spending in Scotland at Its current share of total UK expenditure.
Say what you like about the left, but they are superb at generating myths. Brown had virtually no impact in reality. How many polls were yes ahead in prior to his speech? How many after his speech? No were always going to win.
Agree,so some on here thinks brown speech changed thousands of votes,get real.
And it is what people on here think that is really important in shaping how history views this.
I don't deny that Brown had an impact - but I suspect it is currently being overstated. And as I have said many times, if the Labour team at the heart of the No campaign hadn't made such a hash of it, it would never have got so close.
Private Eye point the finger of blame at Better Together's 'New Labour' campaign director, claiming that their Glasgow HQ was bailed out by a Downing Street organised 'business onslaught'.
I am just glad that we will get a decision at long last. And unless someone does something really stupid. I will never have to hear the sodding argument again.
I am just glad that we will get a decision at long last. And unless someone does something really stupid. I will never have to the sodding argument again.
But Alex Salmond said No voters were deferred Yes voters.
You'll be forced to keep on doing this, until you give the right result for the Nats
I actually wept when I saw that last night. And this from someone whose first post on PB.com was to slag the man off mercilessly. If the result is No then I'm prepared to forget about the gold sell-off thing.
Some bloke in the FT in 2011: The continued run of the gold price is a global investment sensation. Recently it broke the $1,500 an ounce barrier for the first time, 30 per cent higher than a year ago. Surely this lays bare the extraordinary foolishness of Gordon Brown’s announcement, 12 years ago this week, that the UK Treasury would sell off some of Britain’s gold holdings?
Actually, no. On this one occasion, Mr Brown’s decision was the right one.
I am just glad that we will get a decision at long last. And unless someone does something really stupid. I will never have to hear the sodding argument again.
Don't count on it. If it's a no tonight I'd put money on there being another vote in the next 30 years or so.
Apparently, Conservative MPs are not happy ! Why should they not be ? The government's devo max policy was run by a certain GORDON BROWN in the last week.
NPR International Correspondent Ari Shapiro: My fav fun fact about #Scotland #Indyref: The final result that the counting officer reads is legally binding, EVEN IF SHE GETS IT WRONG.
If you are SeanT, do NOT read this post.
I was on a jury last year and the foreman read out the wrong guilty/not guilty verdicts for defendants.
I have personal knowledge of an instance in which a clerk at an election count in a council ward at last May's elections accidentally entered UKIP's votes twice in a spreadsheet. Because no one had any idea of how well UKIP would do none of the other parties queried it, and the erroneous result was announced. It remains the official result on the council's website. (UKIP did not come close to winning).
I am just glad that we will get a decision at long last. And unless someone does something really stupid. I will never have to hear the sodding argument again.
I really don't want to engage with you tonight Smarmy,
But the SNP will probably win the next holyrood - and it will be on the agenda within the decade.
You can buy me a pint if I ever meet you for this information.
Cameron would have been slated by you if he had lost, so you need to credit him for the victory.
He has killed the Scottish indy movement for a generation, possibly for all time.
It looks as if for the first time ever, Scots have voted for Union. A once in 305 years event.
While a majority of MPs want Barnett changed, and the news is full of EV4EL.
A master class.
EVfEL is a joke. Whats the point of having English MPs voting on policies if the Ministers deciding the policies that they vote on and the budgets that the devolved areas get come from other Home nations. Now you could ban Welsh and Scottish MPs from ministerial jobs in devolved areas but you just cannot ban them from Downing Street. Now who are the Quad. Cameron, Clegg ALEXANDER and Osborne. So you have a Scot in a position of extraordinary influence over English policy. Furthermore, the spending plans for devolved areas is part of the budget. Scottish and Welsh MPs cannot be excluded from voting on the budget and therefore on the spending plans for specific devolved areas.
There is only one equitable solution and that is an English Parliament!
I am just glad that we will get a decision at long last. And unless someone does something really stupid. I will never have to hear the sodding argument again.
Don't count on it. If it's a no tonight I'd put money on their being another vote in the next 30 years or so.
I'll be dead or senile, I won't give a monkeys either way.
I think DevoMax will be politically more poisonous for Cameron than a Yes vote.
The latter would have howls of anguish from the press for a week and then fade prior to giving Cameron (should he still be PM) the opportunity to play hardball in negotiations and gain some domestic kudos.
Devomax on the other hand is going to be a weeping sore that will be picked regularly by the press and UKIP and in consequence foster resentment with the rest of the UK as they feel the Scots are having their mouths stuffed with cash.
After DavidL's posts in previous threads it's surprising that Sky is reporting a 90% turnout in Dundee.
Yes that is really weird. It is possible that turnout was very high in certain areas but as I say the polling station I was at was pretty typical. May have had a slightly higher student population than some but not as big as others.
My guess is that turnout forecasts will edge down from current projections but if that is going to happen it should happen soon.
Comments
Christmas Island.
If the SNP are still running the show after the next Holyrood poll then the seeping of anti English puss will just continue. Don't forget,at least 40-45% of the Scottish population will hold a massive grudge and feel cheated from tomorrow onwards.
Scotland have gained nothing that was off the table three months ago, while the whole of England are raving about the injustice of West Lothian and Barnett.
If these were nags i'd be thinking it wasn't a one horse race.
No were always going to win.
Not as bad as a YES result, but still the rest of the country won't like Devomax at all.
As it was, he came across as a ineffectual, awkward, bumbling, thoroughly uncharismatic man.
Not all the voters on the losing side will feel cheated.
As well as being socialist, Scotland is also very democratic.
I've only got one bottle of red left - and all night ahead. At this rate, I'll be sober by the time we know for sure!
PS individual counting areas will couint the total number of vates cast and release turnout figures before sorting into Yes/No/Doubtful and making a count of each.
Voters exercising their right to make their own democratic decision is 'disturbing'? Why, because he doesn't like their choice?
ie YES is currently 12/1 and it seems like its 1200/1 because of the momentum,but if you backed a 12/1 shot in the Grand National you'd be on the second or third fav and fancy your chances
But both have the same chance of winning
Called a referendum he didn't have to.
Put a 300 year old union in jeopardy.
Didn't offer devomax, until he did at the last minute.
Alienated most of England.
Caused angst to many Scots in England and English in Scotland.
Caused rifts to open in Scotland that won't be healed for years.
Yeah, blinding.
Cannot wait for for this master negotiator to go to Europe and bring back
peace in our timea wonderful settlement from the EU.Brown could have given such a speech weeks ago, but waited until the polls told him what to do.
Still dithering.
How much have we paid him to sit on his backside for the last 4 years?
"I Just LAID 95%+ turnout at 5/2 Astonishing. edit: for a substantial amount, too!"
Only £112 traded at 5/2 on Betfair, where did you lay it?
I don't deny that Brown had an impact - but I suspect it is currently being overstated. And as I have said many times, if the Labour team at the heart of the No campaign hadn't made such a hash of it, it would never have got so close.
He has killed the Scottish indy movement for a generation, possibly for all time.
It looks as if for the first time ever, Scots have voted for Union. A once in 305 years event.
The continued run of the gold price is a global investment sensation. Recently it broke the $1,500 an ounce barrier for the first time, 30 per cent higher than a year ago. Surely this lays bare the extraordinary foolishness of Gordon Brown’s announcement, 12 years ago this week, that the UK Treasury would sell off some of Britain’s gold holdings?
Actually, no. On this one occasion, Mr Brown’s decision was the right one.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5788dbac-7680-11e0-b05b-00144feabdc0.html
1. The pollsters got it all wrong.
2. People were lying to the pollsters (probably because of fear and intimidation from the Nationalists)
If its devomax as looks likely now they have signed up to Barnett continuation the Tories are in for a pasting for obvious reasons like raising English tuition fees to £9k whilst subsidising a Scottish system where University Tuition Fees do not exist.
#RUMOURS of very large Yes lead in Dundee postal votes.
HO HO! Ho Ho!!!! Maybe Kelner spoke too soon. LOL
Well placed Labour figure tells me hunch is Yes has won Glasgow, told if it's Yes "it's Labour what lost it"
A master class.
I approve of Andy Murray.
He did the business with the key demographic. Go Brown!!
Everyone getting over-excited as usual - wait for May 2015 - the Barnett formula will not be a major GE issue.
I will never have to hear the sodding argument again.
£31471 available to back No at 1.08 = £2517 profit in 8 hours time. Less 5% deductions.
Doesn't quite feel as nailed on as the talking heads are making out so i'm going to hit the turnout market.
You'll be forced to keep on doing this, until you give the right result for the Nats
Screw the mail! He is his own person. The best thing about today is that turnout has been so so high. Scotland should feel proud.
Every time that Murray plays we'll cheer his opponent.
LAB - 42.3% (+1.3)
LDEM - 33.3% (+6.7)
CON - 12.0% (-8.1)
GRN - 10.1% (-2.2)
EDEM - 2.3% (+2.3
But the SNP will probably win the next holyrood - and it will be on the agenda within the decade.
You can buy me a pint if I ever meet you for this information.
There is only one equitable solution and that is an English Parliament!
I mean he could have written his views in Swahili and posted them to Anchorage Alaska to be read out in by a mute husky. Brave doesn't describe it.
Alternatively he could have said what he thought a week ago in front of the press and possibly boosted yes.
The latter would have howls of anguish from the press for a week and then fade prior to giving Cameron (should he still be PM) the opportunity to play hardball in negotiations and gain some domestic kudos.
Devomax on the other hand is going to be a weeping sore that will be picked regularly by the press and UKIP and in consequence foster resentment with the rest of the UK as they feel the Scots are having their mouths stuffed with cash.
My guess is that turnout forecasts will edge down from current projections but if that is going to happen it should happen soon.
Anyone of sound mind would lock the man up in the attic again, not promote him as our saviour and remind everyone about the bad old days.