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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ukip gets its first MP – Douglas Carswell defects from the

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  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Anorak said:

    Buzzfeed exclusive Ukip candidate will not make way for Carswell.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/ukips-clacton-candidate-says-he-wont-stand-down-for-douglas

    Might as well stand in the way of a steamroller.

    Ha! My day is officially made. The guy is a GENUINE retired colonel!! No, really. From the article:

    “I’ve been through dangerous situations in Pakistan and South America and you negotiate them: I’ve had a sixteen-year-old shove a machine gun up my nose in Nicaragua. I’ve faced bigger threats from real killers and if they think they can walk up to me and push me then I’ll push back. I’ve never run away from anything.”

    He gave the fuzzy-wuzzies what for, I'm sure. What?
    DavidL said:

    Buzzfeed exclusive Ukip candidate will not make way for Carswell.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/ukips-clacton-candidate-says-he-wont-stand-down-for-douglas

    That is just hilarious. No doubt Farage will put aside any question of local democracy and insist but it is still funny. Time to get on the tories?

    The current Ukip candidate sounds like an SAS trained mercenary.The outcome could be bloody for Carswell.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Speedy said:



    dr_spyn said:

    Cameron wades in.

    Margaret Davis ‏@MargaretDavisPA 1m
    PA snap: Prime Minister David Cameron has called on South Yorkshire PCC Shaun Wright to quit in the wake of the Rotherham abuse report.

    Must be a look squirrel moment for him for some reason.

    It's like a comedy sketch:
    "Prime Minister, Douglas Carswell has defected to UKIP, what should we do?"
    "I'll call for Shaun Wright to resign"
    The Tories must be hoping Wright resigns and the by-election is called for the same day as the Clacton by-election so that UKIP resources are stretched between the two contests.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    AndyJS said:

    Not necessarily. It's possible the local UKIP branch selected a candidate without informing national party headquarters.

    This would seem to be supported by the fact that Farage didn't make any comment about there already being a candidate in Clacton who he would like to kindly ask to step aside. I'm sure he would have said something like that if he knew there was already a candidate in place.

    Surely they can't be that much of a shambles.

    A much more likely explanation is that Farage doesn't care a toss what the local association think (and quite rightly so, to be honest, if UKIP want to be a serious party).

    I guess it could get awkward if Mr Lord persists in refusing to deselect himself...
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    BBC - "The police force at the centre of the Rotherham child abuse scandal is still failing to record crimes against children properly, a report has said.

    South Yorkshire Police's public protection unit spent a "great deal of time" trying to "disprove" allegations, said HM Inspectorate of Constabulary.

    It said the force's public protection unit showed "a disregard for victims"."

    'trying to disprove allegations' ? - What the hell are South York's constabulary playing at, I thought their job was to investigate all crimes impartially, not automatically assume a position of Devil's Advocate.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited August 2014
    AndyJS said:

    Speedy said:



    dr_spyn said:

    Cameron wades in.

    Margaret Davis ‏@MargaretDavisPA 1m
    PA snap: Prime Minister David Cameron has called on South Yorkshire PCC Shaun Wright to quit in the wake of the Rotherham abuse report.

    Must be a look squirrel moment for him for some reason.

    It's like a comedy sketch:
    "Prime Minister, Douglas Carswell has defected to UKIP, what should we do?"
    "I'll call for Shaun Wright to resign"
    The Tories must be hoping Wright resigns and the by-election is called for the same day as the Clacton by-election so that UKIP resources are stretched between the two contests.
    1. Wright is in it (probably) for the money and the protection the job offers, he won't resign.
    2. Between a PCC and an MP who would you choose to have as a party? An MP of course.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited August 2014
    All Cameron needs now is some tractor stats and a Gordon Brown Horror Mask.

    LATEST:David Cameron says it would be "right decision" for South Yorkshire police commissioner Shaun Wright to resign over abuse report.

    BBC Ticker.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    ...... why would the Bank of England support the Scottish banking sector, if a currency union had not been agreed? Indeed, who would provide liquidity support and emergency funding to this banking mountain?

    I asked the First Minister this question four times yesterday, and did not get an answer. It is a legitimate question for the people of Scotland, and also the people in the rest of the UK. Mr Salmond continued with me, his debate performance from the night before, saying that I was “impersonating” Alistair Darling, telling me to “Get with the debate, man”.


    https://medium.com/@faisalislam/salmond-declares-victory-in-the-currency-war-295aaada44be
  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    dr_spyn said:

    All Cameron needs now is some tractor stats.

    LATEST:David Cameron says it would be "right decision" for South Yorkshire police commissioner Shaun Wright to resign over abuse report.

    BBC Ticker.

    lol

    This is all hugely enjoyable.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Socrates said:

    Because the first thing Cameron did wouldn't be to call up his mates in the press to spin it the way the Tory leader wanted it in a pre-agreed line?

    Don't be daft. Carswell could and should have let him know, just before the public announcement.

    I'm very surprised at his discourtesy. I imagine it was an oversight, because I've always regarded him as a very decent and honourable man.

    I wonder how soon he'll fall out with Farage. Carswell is in many ways an über-Cameroon; a lot of his complaints seem to be that there hasn't been enough of the type of reform he and Cameron were pushing for in the early days
    The trouble with you, and people like you is that you do not understand UKIP as a party and as a phenomenon. More, you have not bothered to understand, closing your eyes, hoping against hope that it will go away. Well get used to it: UKIP is not what it was in 2010, or 2013 or even last month. It's the only political party that is growing and bringing in new recruits and supporters. Time you stopped being peevish and look into the heart of what the Conservative party have become.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2014

    AndyJS said:

    Not necessarily. It's possible the local UKIP branch selected a candidate without informing national party headquarters.

    This would seem to be supported by the fact that Farage didn't make any comment about there already being a candidate in Clacton who he would like to kindly ask to step aside. I'm sure he would have said something like that if he knew there was already a candidate in place.

    Surely they can't be that much of a shambles.

    A much more likely explanation is that Farage doesn't care a toss what the local association think (and quite rightly so, to be honest, if UKIP want to be a serious party).

    I guess it could get awkward if Mr Lord persists in refusing to deselect himself...
    All of the parties are in a shambles on that score.

    For example, compare the official party candidate lists with the selected candidates on my spreadsheet. Many locally selected candidates are missing from the official lists.

    "There are currently 75 Prospective Parliamentary Candidates (PPCs). You can search through them by name or by the constituency they represent."

    http://www.conservatives.com/OurTeam/Prospective_Parliamentary_Candidates.aspx?by=name&letter=

    I have 128 Conservative non-incumbents selected, based on official local party reports:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At91c3wX1Wu5dFkzTjFrRmJRN3F6ODBTTEs4NGFhcUE&usp=drive_web#gid=0

    So there are 53 missing from the national list.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300

    BBC - "The police force at the centre of the Rotherham child abuse scandal is still failing to record crimes against children properly, a report has said.

    South Yorkshire Police's public protection unit spent a "great deal of time" trying to "disprove" allegations, said HM Inspectorate of Constabulary.

    It said the force's public protection unit showed "a disregard for victims"."

    'trying to disprove allegations' ? - What the hell are South York's constabulary playing at, I thought their job was to investigate all crimes impartially, not automatically assume a position of Devil's Advocate.

    Newspeak from Rotherham.

    SYP - Public Protection Unit.
    RMBC - Where Everyone Matters.
    Safeguarding Children's Board.

    Who put the rot into Rotherham?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    From. Betting perspective, two kippers in a sack might make the Tory price attractive.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,452

    <

    1) You wanted to spend around £100 to 200 million on a referendum on a treaty that had already been signed, in order to make a 'clear statement'. The AV and Scottish Independence referendums have shown us how difficult it is to get a 'yes' even when the headline consequences of a result are fixed and known. Your referendum would have been laughed down, and a meaningful EU vote put back for a generation.

    2) 'Unlike you apparently'. It is because I value my family and friends that I find UKIP and many - although far from all - of its supporters anathema. You pretend to be a Libertarian and against the EU - I'm quite amazed how you can marry that with political support for Nick Palmer. Whilst Nick might be a thoroughly good egg in private, he's not exactly an exemplar of those two traits politically. There is a difference between having someone as a friend and supporting them politically, which you have done on here passim.

    3) My comprehension of history is as good and/or flawed as anyone else's. This is the funniest of your rebuttals: you were floundering so invented two 'principles' which magically only apply to the Syrian intervention. I did not want an intervention last year from any gung-ho militaristic fervour (as you claimed before as part of a series of slurs); I supported it reluctantly because I could see we were on the cusp of something much worse, and because the use of chemical weapons should be punished. I was proved right.

    I see you try to insult me three times in your screed above. Perhaps you should leave off such pathetic attacks and examine your own principles instead.

    Interesting that your reply did nothing to deny the consistency of my position - which was of course your original smear. All you have said is that you disagree with my views - which of course you are entitled to do.

    Given your performance over the last few months and your ability to twist the truth I am not surprised that you have found yourself unable to support your rather stupid allegations.

    Clearly your inability to understand the concept of a principled position is what attracts you to Cameron.
    I've shown your position on all those things is thoroughly inconsistent.

    How have I 'twisted the truth'? I may make factual mistakes from time to time, but I've owned up to mistakes in the past, and I'm not aware of anywhere that I have posted outright lies. I also post frequent links to back up positions.

    And I am not attracted to Cameron. Now, if you'd said Mary Creagh, Claire Perry, Rachel Flint, Priti Patel or Charlotte Lesley ...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,336

    Floater said:

    Carswell is the sort of politician we need more of, on both left and right. Decent, honest, hardworking, and independently minded. I may not agree with everything he says, but I like his honesty, especially his decision to put his job on the line.
    I hope he gets back in.

    Seconded
    Thirded. I think he's made a mistake, but I've applauded him in the past, and I'll applaud him for following his conscience. Most remarkably of all, he's called a by-election. I think he'll win, but at least he'll give the voters a choice.

    If it's true he did not tell Cameron in advance, then that's a little off. But as afar as I'm aware that's just a rumour.

    (On a side note, I find myself slightly contradictory on this. I've always said 'vote for a candidate rather than a party', yet have always thought that a sitting MP changing parties should resign for a by-election. I'm not sure how I can thoroughly combine those two positions).
    On the side note: there is of course a difference - in the first case, the voter knows what is being voted for, both candidate and party. The second case breaks this implicit promise/contract and resignation is therefore indeed the correct option. No inconsistency at all in your thinking methinks.

    There is a problem in Scotland because certain MSPs are selected on party alone - the list MSPs. When a list MSP changes parties in mid term (or becomes independent, in the sense of being non-party, as happened with the two who resigned over the NATO vote within the SNP) there is an even stronger case for expecting resignation. On the other hand, if the person was 2nd or 3rd on the list, a by election often simply replicates the first person's success on the list without being a true repeat. This also makes the interpretation of such by elections in local government difficult for similar reasons.

  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited August 2014
    dr_spyn said:

    BBC - "The police force at the centre of the Rotherham child abuse scandal is still failing to record crimes against children properly, a report has said.

    South Yorkshire Police's public protection unit spent a "great deal of time" trying to "disprove" allegations, said HM Inspectorate of Constabulary.

    It said the force's public protection unit showed "a disregard for victims"."

    'trying to disprove allegations' ? - What the hell are South York's constabulary playing at, I thought their job was to investigate all crimes impartially, not automatically assume a position of Devil's Advocate.

    Newspeak from Rotherham.

    SYP - Public Protection Unit.
    RMBC - Where Everyone Matters.
    Safeguarding Children's Board.

    Who put the rot into Rotherham?
    The left and their cronies only get exercised over free market paedophilia
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    MikeK said:

    The trouble with you, and people like you is that you do not understand UKIP as a party and as a phenomenon. More, you have not bothered to understand, closing your eyes, hoping against hope that it will go away. Well get used to it: UKIP is not what it was in 2010, or 2013 or even last month. It's the only political party that is growing and bringing in new recruits and supporters. Time you stopped being peevish and look into the heart of what the Conservative party have become.

    No, I don't pretend to understand what on earth UKIP think they are doing. Clearly it's nothing to do with the EU.

    Still, I understand a bit of the motivation:

    "We’ve proved we can succeed and take on the establishment. But now the establishment is wanting to join us. ... It’s an insult to the electors for politicians to think their votes can be traded.”

    Good rousing stuff, eh?

    Well, the said gentleman is just about to discover that professional politicans like Nigel Farage do indeed think their votes can be traded.

    Amusing, isn't it?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,336
    MikeK said:

    Socrates said:

    Because the first thing Cameron did wouldn't be to call up his mates in the press to spin it the way the Tory leader wanted it in a pre-agreed line?

    Don't be daft. Carswell could and should have let him know, just before the public announcement.

    I'm very surprised at his discourtesy. I imagine it was an oversight, because I've always regarded him as a very decent and honourable man.

    I wonder how soon he'll fall out with Farage. Carswell is in many ways an über-Cameroon; a lot of his complaints seem to be that there hasn't been enough of the type of reform he and Cameron were pushing for in the early days
    The trouble with you, and people like you is that you do not understand UKIP as a party and as a phenomenon. More, you have not bothered to understand, closing your eyes, hoping against hope that it will go away. Well get used to it: UKIP is not what it was in 2010, or 2013 or even last month. It's the only political party that is growing and bringing in new recruits and supporters. Time you stopped being peevish and look into the heart of what the Conservative party have become.
    Not the only one. SNP is, or has been, growing, and I also wonder about the Scottish Greens and Socialists - and possibly even the Scottish Tories.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Speedy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Speedy said:



    dr_spyn said:

    Cameron wades in.

    Margaret Davis ‏@MargaretDavisPA 1m
    PA snap: Prime Minister David Cameron has called on South Yorkshire PCC Shaun Wright to quit in the wake of the Rotherham abuse report.

    Must be a look squirrel moment for him for some reason.

    It's like a comedy sketch:
    "Prime Minister, Douglas Carswell has defected to UKIP, what should we do?"
    "I'll call for Shaun Wright to resign"
    The Tories must be hoping Wright resigns and the by-election is called for the same day as the Clacton by-election so that UKIP resources are stretched between the two contests.
    1. Wright is in it (probably) for the money and the protection the job offers, he won't resign.
    2. Between a PCC and an MP who would you choose to have as a party? An MP of course.
    I agree it would be clutching at straws, but in times of crisis one grasps at anything.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited August 2014
    South Yorkshire Police officer Daniel Cookson, 27, who was previously based in Rotherham, has been charged with causing a 15-year-old girl to engage in sexual activity, his force said today.
    It comes after a report revealed at least 1,400 girls were sexually exploited in the town between 1997 and 2008.
    Cookson, who was arrested in November, was charged on August 21 but South Yorkshire Police released the information only today.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2736845/BREAKING-NEWS-Former-Rotherham-police-officer-charged-causing-girl-15-engage-sexual-activity.html#ixzz3BhbvPZ9E

    SYP seem remarkably keen to speak to the rest of the media again.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,452
    dr_spyn said:

    South Yorkshire Police officer Daniel Cookson, 27, who was previously based in Rotherham, has been charged with causing a 15-year-old girl to engage in sexual activity, his force said today.
    It comes after a report revealed at least 1,400 girls were sexually exploited in the town between 1997 and 2008.
    Cookson, who was arrested in November, was charged on August 21 but South Yorkshire Police released the information only today.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2736845/BREAKING-NEWS-Former-Rotherham-police-officer-charged-causing-girl-15-engage-sexual-activity.html#ixzz3BhbvPZ9E

    For an organisation which tried to stop The Times reporting on abuse of children, SYP seem remarkably keen to speak to the rest of the media again.

    It would be interesting to know when the alleged offences occurred.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    dr_spyn said:

    South Yorkshire Police officer Daniel Cookson, 27, who was previously based in Rotherham, has been charged with causing a 15-year-old girl to engage in sexual activity, his force said today.
    It comes after a report revealed at least 1,400 girls were sexually exploited in the town between 1997 and 2008.
    Cookson, who was arrested in November, was charged on August 21 but South Yorkshire Police released the information only today.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2736845/BREAKING-NEWS-Former-Rotherham-police-officer-charged-causing-girl-15-engage-sexual-activity.html#ixzz3BhbvPZ9E

    For an organisation which tried to stop The Times reporting on abuse of children, SYP seem remarkably keen to speak to the rest of the media again.

    How come the public weren't informed about this on 21st August when he was charged?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    dr_spyn said:

    South Yorkshire Police officer Daniel Cookson, 27, who was previously based in Rotherham, has been charged with causing a 15-year-old girl to engage in sexual activity, his force said today.
    It comes after a report revealed at least 1,400 girls were sexually exploited in the town between 1997 and 2008.
    Cookson, who was arrested in November, was charged on August 21 but South Yorkshire Police released the information only today.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2736845/BREAKING-NEWS-Former-Rotherham-police-officer-charged-causing-girl-15-engage-sexual-activity.html#ixzz3BhbvPZ9E

    SYP seem remarkably keen to speak to the rest of the media again.

    Please sir, please sir, we caught one. And it wasn't even culturally embarrassing.

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    MikeK said:

    The trouble with you, and people like you is that you do not understand UKIP as a party and as a phenomenon. More, you have not bothered to understand, closing your eyes, hoping against hope that it will go away. Well get used to it: UKIP is not what it was in 2010, or 2013 or even last month. It's the only political party that is growing and bringing in new recruits and supporters. Time you stopped being peevish and look into the heart of what the Conservative party have become.

    No, I don't pretend to understand what on earth UKIP think they are doing. Clearly it's nothing to do with the EU.

    Still, I understand a bit of the motivation:

    "We’ve proved we can succeed and take on the establishment. But now the establishment is wanting to join us. ... It’s an insult to the electors for politicians to think their votes can be traded.”

    Good rousing stuff, eh?

    Well, the said gentleman is just about to discover that professional politicans like Nigel Farage do indeed think their votes can be traded.

    Amusing, isn't it?
    Almost as funny as the prospect of the local candidate slugging it out with Farage, Carswell and UKIP's London HQ.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    dr_spyn said:

    South Yorkshire Police officer Daniel Cookson, 27, who was previously based in Rotherham, has been charged with causing a 15-year-old girl to engage in sexual activity, his force said today.
    It comes after a report revealed at least 1,400 girls were sexually exploited in the town between 1997 and 2008.
    Cookson, who was arrested in November, was charged on August 21 but South Yorkshire Police released the information only today.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2736845/BREAKING-NEWS-Former-Rotherham-police-officer-charged-causing-girl-15-engage-sexual-activity.html#ixzz3BhbvPZ9E

    For an organisation which tried to stop The Times reporting on abuse of children, SYP seem remarkably keen to speak to the rest of the media again.

    It would be interesting to know when the alleged offences occurred.
    According to the article...

    He was arrested in November last year and charged on August 21

    Alleged offence was committed between March and November last year

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited August 2014
    Socrates said:

    "Douglas Carswell's defection is not just a blow to David Cameron - it shows the Tory party is too divided to stand up for hard-working families."

    Could Miliband have issued a more cliched line?

    May be cliched but it's true.

    People are struggling to pay the bills and keep their heads above water and all "The Right" are interested in is fighting like ferrets in a sack over something most people regard as an obscure side issue like the EU.
  • Afternoon all. Just catching up on all the excitement.
    Must confess to being a little bit surprised by the timing.
    Custom and precedent say that this sort of thing should wait until Mike is on holiday.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Hecklers following Glasgow MP Jim Murphy on his 'Better Together' tour of Scotland took things one step further today, hurling eggs at him as he spoke

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-08-28/mp-egged-as-he-urges-scottish-voters-to-say-no/
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    GIN1138 said:

    Socrates said:

    "Douglas Carswell's defection is not just a blow to David Cameron - it shows the Tory party is too divided to stand up for hard-working families."

    Could Miliband have issued a more cliched line?

    May be cliched but it's true.

    People are struggling to pay the bills and keep their heads above water and all "The Right" are interested in is fighting like ferrets in a sack over something most people regard as an obscure side issue like the EU.
    No, that's what Carswell is doing. Cameron is 'just getting on with the job'
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Hecklers following Glasgow MP Jim Murphy on his 'Better Together' tour of Scotland took things one step further today, hurling eggs at him as he spoke

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-08-28/mp-egged-as-he-urges-scottish-voters-to-say-no/

    It could be worse:
    Louise Mensch @LouiseMensch · 3m
    .@PeoplesPledgeEU @JackieDP @ZacGoldsmith fuck off, you're Labour's little helpers and you hurt EU ref chances
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    To the Lib Dems?

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    Hecklers following Glasgow MP Jim Murphy on his 'Better Together' tour of Scotland took things one step further today, hurling eggs at him as he spoke

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-08-28/mp-egged-as-he-urges-scottish-voters-to-say-no/


    We had a buffoon shouting abuse at Gordon Brown at the meeting in Dundee yesterday. And it wasn't me. I was on my best behaviour. Honest.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Dan Hodges tweets: Roger Lord. Clacton candidate. “If Mr Carswell wants to join us then he can get in the queue and hand out leaflets with the rest of us".
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited August 2014

    Dan Hodges tweets: Roger Lord. Clacton candidate. “If Mr Carswell wants to join us then he can get in the queue and hand out leaflets with the rest of us".

    It's not going as well as one would hope is it?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Student migration is the only category which Cameron and May have reduced since 2010:

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/resources/reasons_tcm77-375471.png

    Both economic migration and family migration have increased. Inept.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    DavidL said:

    Hecklers following Glasgow MP Jim Murphy on his 'Better Together' tour of Scotland took things one step further today, hurling eggs at him as he spoke

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-08-28/mp-egged-as-he-urges-scottish-voters-to-say-no/


    We had a buffoon shouting abuse at Gordon Brown at the meeting in Dundee yesterday. And it wasn't me. I was on my best behaviour. Honest.
    I saw the clip of the former broadcaster stealing the show! How well attended was the event?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Immigration of non-EU citizens has been declining over the last three years. The latest estimates show that this decline has ended with 265,000 non-EU citizens immigrating to the UK in the year ending March 2014 compared to 246,000 in the previous year.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited August 2014

    GIN1138 said:

    Socrates said:

    "Douglas Carswell's defection is not just a blow to David Cameron - it shows the Tory party is too divided to stand up for hard-working families."

    Could Miliband have issued a more cliched line?

    May be cliched but it's true.

    People are struggling to pay the bills and keep their heads above water and all "The Right" are interested in is fighting like ferrets in a sack over something most people regard as an obscure side issue like the EU.
    No, that's what Carswell is doing. Cameron is 'just getting on with the job'
    Well yeah, but look at John Major.

    When a party starts ripping itself apart over something the rest of the public finds as silly and obscure, it's the PM who ultimately carries the can.

    And I speak as someone who wants a referendum and would probably vote OUT given the opportunity.
  • Speedy said:

    I have just found the perfect parody reaction of David Cameron to Carswell:

    "David Cameron says he is extremely concerned by mounting evidence UKIP troops have made large-scale incursions into south eastern England"

    Cameron orders immediate RAF airdrops of thousands of leaflets to beleaguered Tory communities along the Essex Coast.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,452

    dr_spyn said:

    South Yorkshire Police officer Daniel Cookson, 27, who was previously based in Rotherham, has been charged with causing a 15-year-old girl to engage in sexual activity, his force said today.
    It comes after a report revealed at least 1,400 girls were sexually exploited in the town between 1997 and 2008.
    Cookson, who was arrested in November, was charged on August 21 but South Yorkshire Police released the information only today.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2736845/BREAKING-NEWS-Former-Rotherham-police-officer-charged-causing-girl-15-engage-sexual-activity.html#ixzz3BhbvPZ9E

    For an organisation which tried to stop The Times reporting on abuse of children, SYP seem remarkably keen to speak to the rest of the media again.

    It would be interesting to know when the alleged offences occurred.
    According to the article...

    He was arrested in November last year and charged on August 21

    Alleged offence was committed between March and November last year

    Ah thanks. I missed that.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Hugh said:

    TOPPING said:

    (what is the UKIP position on the deficit, by the way - will the famous abandoning of 0.7% of GDP on aid become their multi-committed bankers bonus bonanza?).

    That's the curious thing. UKIP has recently morphed into a deficit-denial party. They want to:

    - Retain the spare-room subsidy
    - 'Protect your benefits'
    - Big reductions in income tax
    - A new Veterans' Department
    - An end to hospital parking charges

    All to be paid for by (yes, you were right) 'looking at' overseas aid, and some unspecified savings from the Department for Energy & Climate Change (which doesn't spend much) and Business, Innovation and Skills.
    You know what motivates Kippers. It isn't economics. It's not even Europe particularly.

    David Cameron should have shown some leadership and taken on the fruitcake tendency in his party. Instead the jelly-spined idiot tried to triangulate his way out trouble by throwing them some morsels. Predictably enough, it just made the situation worse. The man is pathetic.

    You.......could.......be......right......

    to @Hugh‌

    *breaks down completely*
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Was there a particular problem specific to Rotherham? Did Labour's total dominance of this authority allow a complacent, rotten culture to develop? Was the political opposition so enfeebled that effective challenge to the leadership was striking by its absence?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28971528

    A rotten borough, with a rotten political leadership, and at the moment those in power are trying to shout wolves, there wolves and where wolves.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    The problem with Carswell is he is a libertarian, obsessed by the EU and esoteric constitutional issues. Not really the direction and issues UKIP need to focus on, especially libertarianism.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited August 2014
    Of course, Douglas Carswell has always been a strong advocate of Open Primaries:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZZwtX3YC0k

    So presumably it was a minor and temporary aberration that he seemed to think he was a shoo-in to displace the hapless Mr Lord as UKIP candidate in Clacton (not that there is a vacancy, it seems). No doubt he will rectify this as soon as he remembers his principles.
  • Our lordship seems to have fallen for a likely spoof account, as of course did Louise...

    Lord Ashcroft‏@LordAshcroft·4 mins
    RT @RogerLordUKIP I've had machine guns up my conk Nigel... I'm not bloody going anywhere.>>>oh oh the Clacton UKIP candidate gets ........
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030
    Argh, stupid MPs defecting while I am asleep, I miss all the fun!
  • <

    1) You wanted to spend around £100 to 200 million on a referendum on a treaty that had already been signed, in order to make a 'clear statement'. The AV and Scottish Independence referendums have shown us how difficult it is to get a 'yes' even when the headline consequences of a result are fixed and known. Your referendum would have been laughed down, and a meaningful EU vote put back for a generation.

    2) 'Unlike you apparently'. It is because I value my family and friends that I find UKIP and many - although far from all - of its supporters anathema. You pretend to be a Libertarian and against the EU - I'm quite amazed how you can marry that with political support for Nick Palmer. Whilst Nick might be a thoroughly good egg in private, he's not exactly an exemplar of those two traits politically. There is a difference between having someone as a friend and supporting them politically, which you have done on here passim.

    3) My comprehension of history is as good and/or flawed as anyone else's. This is the funniest of your rebuttals: you were floundering so invented two 'principles' which magically only apply to the Syrian intervention. I did not want an intervention last year from any gung-ho militaristic fervour (as you claimed before as part of a series of slurs); I supported it reluctantly because I could see we were on the cusp of something much worse, and because the use of chemical weapons should be punished. I was proved right.

    I see you try to insult me three times in your screed above. Perhaps you should leave off such pathetic attacks and examine your own principles instead.

    Interesting that your reply did nothing to deny the consistency of my position - which was of course your original smear. All you have said is that you disagree with my views - which of course you are entitled to do.

    Given your performance over the last few months and your ability to twist the truth I am not surprised that you have found yourself unable to support your rather stupid allegations.

    Clearly your inability to understand the concept of a principled position is what attracts you to Cameron.
    I've shown your position on all those things is thoroughly inconsistent.

    How have I 'twisted the truth'? I may make factual mistakes from time to time, but I've owned up to mistakes in the past, and I'm not aware of anywhere that I have posted outright lies. I also post frequent links to back up positions.

    And I am not attracted to Cameron. Now, if you'd said Mary Creagh, Claire Perry, Rachel Flint, Priti Patel or Charlotte Lesley ...
    No, you are just too stupid to understand the principles involved. Though I will grant you it is probably wilful ignorance. But then you are blinded by Cameroon beliefs which probably accounts for your lack of understanding.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Hecklers following Glasgow MP Jim Murphy on his 'Better Together' tour of Scotland took things one step further today, hurling eggs at him as he spoke

    Believe it or not, that's quite civilised for Glasgow - almost friendly... ; )
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    All hush for OGH
  • OGH talking to Peter Allen

    R5 gold..... up the spurs!!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    huh? It's looking touch and go (but presumably very possible) for a Tory majority...so let's leave the Tory party??

    Mike? Get a grip.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,452
    Off-topic and in a lighter heart: how do you measure 'biggest'?

    Calders Geo, in the much beloved part of the union, Orkney?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-28965618

    or the rather euphemistically-named Titan, in my beloved Derbyshire?
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/6122884.stm
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    Buzzfeed exclusive Ukip candidate will not make way for Carswell.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/ukips-clacton-candidate-says-he-wont-stand-down-for-douglas

    Any lack of co-ordination could hamper the by-election campaign behind the scenes.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    Sean_F said:
    Poor old Mr Lord then! His political career destroyed and he's done nothing wrong...
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    https://twitter.com/wallaceme

    /status/504946756501913600/photo/1

    CCHQ had sent out some invites for drinks with Carswell.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,452



    No, you are just too stupid to understand the principles involved. Though I will grant you it is probably wilful ignorance. But then you are blinded by Cameroon beliefs which probably accounts for your lack of understanding.

    So now you call me stupid, and blinded by Cameron.

    I think you've lost the argument, mate. If not the plot.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Has there been any comment from Paul Nuttall? Have assumed he'd be next in line for the throne if Farage steps back. But - Carswell?
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Lots of comments. Politics is back.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Sean_F said:
    Can UKIP organise a byelection in a brewery, or was the party caught off-guard by Carswell's defection?
  • Oh dear...

    Jim Pickard‏@PickardJE·1 min
    Roger Lord, ex Ukip Clacton candidate: "I had a call from the party secretary threatening to throw me out of the party if I don't shut up."
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    GIN1138 said:

    Sean_F said:
    Poor old Mr Lord then! His political career destroyed and he's done nothing wrong...
    WTF were UKIP selecting a candidate there anyhow?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    That Roger Lord story hasn't moved odds yet, PP has them at:
    UKIP 1/4
    CON 10/3
    LAB 10/1
    LD 100/1

    CON odds drifting a bit in favour of Labour.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216



    No, you are just too stupid to understand the principles involved. Though I will grant you it is probably wilful ignorance. But then you are blinded by Cameroon beliefs which probably accounts for your lack of understanding.

    So now you call me stupid, and blinded by Cameron.

    I think you've lost the argument, mate. If not the plot.
    Never argue with an idiot.

    They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.....
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    "Roger Lord is not now, nor has he ever been the by-election [candidate] for Clacton. ... Roger Lord is mistaken in his belief that he is the candidate and he can best serve the party’s and the county’s interests by standing behind the decision of the NEC”

    Not the question, is it? Was Mr Lord selected for May 2015, and, if so, will that continue (presumably not?)? If so, then, has he been deselected by fiat?
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    Conservatives at 10/3 for Clacton.

    Little tempting? Party machine, incumbent party, Roger Lord to make trouble (stand in some form?

    23% chance of Tory victory?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    Sean_F said:
    Can UKIP organise a byelection in a brewery, or was the party caught off-guard by Carswell's defection?
    Their priority was obviously (and sensibly) to keep the defection from leaking. Presumably it was on a need to know basis, and Mr Lord didn't need to know until now.
    RodCrosby said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sean_F said:
    Poor old Mr Lord then! His political career destroyed and he's done nothing wrong...
    WTF were UKIP selecting a candidate there anyhow?
    In the most demographically good seat for them? Of course.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    Sean_F said:
    Can UKIP organise a byelection in a brewery, or was the party caught off-guard by Carswell's defection?
    No idea. But UKIP's NEC chooses by-election candidates.

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited August 2014
    Carola said:

    Has there been any comment from Paul Nuttall? Have assumed he'd be next in line for the throne if Farage steps back. But - Carswell?

    Carswell would be a disaster as leader of any party. He's a decent man, but as noted in this thread he's highly independent (erratic) and you would never quite know what his position is on any given subject.

    Moreover he's obsessed with obscure constitutional and procedural stuff which has absolutely no interest to 99% of the population.

    Finally he just seems slightly strange and not someone regular people would be able to relate to.

    You couldn't fine someone more unfit to lead a political party.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Jim Pickard‏@PickardJE·1 min
    Roger Lord, ex Ukip Clacton candidate: "I had a call from the party secretary threatening to throw me out of the party if I don't shut up."

    “I’ve been through dangerous situations in Pakistan and South America and you negotiate them: I’ve had a sixteen-year-old shove a machine gun up my nose in Nicaragua. I’ve faced bigger threats from real killers and if they think they can walk up to me and push me then I’ll push back. I’ve never run away from anything.”

    All mouth and no trousers!
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    GIN1138 said:

    Carola said:

    Has there been any comment from Paul Nuttall? Have assumed he'd be next in line for the throne if Farage steps back. But - Carswell?

    Carswell would be a disaster as leader of any party. He's a decent man, but as noted in this thread he's highly independent (erratic) and you would never quite know what his position is on any given subject.

    Moreover he's obsessed with obscure constitutional and procedural stuff which has absolutely no interest to 99% of the population.

    Finally he just seems slightly strange and not someone regular people would be able to relate to.

    You couldn't fine someone more unfit to lead a political party.
    Sounds like Alan Sked, basically
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Has the Deputy PCC for South Yorkshire just resigned?
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    edited August 2014
    Grandiose said:

    "Roger Lord is not now, nor has he ever been the by-election [candidate] for Clacton. ... Roger Lord is mistaken in his belief that he is the candidate and he can best serve the party’s and the county’s interests by standing behind the decision of the NEC”

    Not the question, is it? Was Mr Lord selected for May 2015, and, if so, will that continue (presumably not?)? If so, then, has he been deselected by fiat?

    According to twitter, UKIP have a provision for by-elections that has their NEC select the candidate.

    He's an entertaining twitter follow.

    Roger Lord UKIP ‏@RogerLordUKIP 14m
    I challenge you @DouglasCarswell to a duel. I will have satisfaction at this outrage you and Nigel have schemed like thieves in the night.

    (If that's him, which is a big if, to say quite probably not).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    I see Louise Mensch has described Douglas Carswell as a "slimeball".

    I'm not sure she's in any position to criticise other people for harming the Conservative Party.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    New thread
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Tensions seem to be up within the Tory party, I vision accusations and counter accusations between euroskeptics and europhiles (actually I already see them on twitter but that doesn't count).
    It's like 1995 again.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Grandiose said:

    Buzzfeed exclusive Ukip candidate will not make way for Carswell.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/ukips-clacton-candidate-says-he-wont-stand-down-for-douglas

    Any lack of co-ordination could hamper the by-election campaign behind the scenes.
    Unfortunately for Carswell comments such as "a Tory in Ukip clothing" and "carpetbagging" tend to stick.
    He is also banking on some of those Clacton Tories coming across with him-a few councillors would be a coup.This too might be easier said than done.If it doesn't happen he will have lost both Tory and Ukip local support.All of this should be organised and co-ordinated and it clearly isn't.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    LOL
    Anorak said:

    Buzzfeed exclusive Ukip candidate will not make way for Carswell.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/ukips-clacton-candidate-says-he-wont-stand-down-for-douglas

    Might as well stand in the way of a steamroller.

    Ha! My day is officially made. The guy is a GENUINE retired colonel!! No, really. From the article:

    “I’ve been through dangerous situations in Pakistan and South America and you negotiate them: I’ve had a sixteen-year-old shove a machine gun up my nose in Nicaragua. I’ve faced bigger threats from real killers and if they think they can walk up to me and push me then I’ll push back. I’ve never run away from anything.”

    He gave the fuzzy-wuzzies what for, I'm sure. What?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    dr_spyn said:

    BBC - "The police force at the centre of the Rotherham child abuse scandal is still failing to record crimes against children properly, a report has said.

    South Yorkshire Police's public protection unit spent a "great deal of time" trying to "disprove" allegations, said HM Inspectorate of Constabulary.

    It said the force's public protection unit showed "a disregard for victims"."

    'trying to disprove allegations' ? - What the hell are South York's constabulary playing at, I thought their job was to investigate all crimes impartially, not automatically assume a position of Devil's Advocate.

    Newspeak from Rotherham.

    SYP - Public Protection Unit.
    RMBC - Where Everyone Matters.
    Safeguarding Children's Board.

    Who put the rot into Rotherham?
    The left and their cronies only get exercised over free market paedophilia
    Very clever.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    LOL
    DavidL said:

    dr_spyn said:

    South Yorkshire Police officer Daniel Cookson, 27, who was previously based in Rotherham, has been charged with causing a 15-year-old girl to engage in sexual activity, his force said today.
    It comes after a report revealed at least 1,400 girls were sexually exploited in the town between 1997 and 2008.
    Cookson, who was arrested in November, was charged on August 21 but South Yorkshire Police released the information only today.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2736845/BREAKING-NEWS-Former-Rotherham-police-officer-charged-causing-girl-15-engage-sexual-activity.html#ixzz3BhbvPZ9E

    SYP seem remarkably keen to speak to the rest of the media again.

    Please sir, please sir, we caught one. And it wasn't even culturally embarrassing.

This discussion has been closed.