Just logged onto Facebook. Two of my Conservative "friends" aren't very complimentary about this development. One status reads: "Treacherous b*s*tard Carswell..."
Carswell is deeply deeply misguided and makes no sense.
He decries government and then tells us how much better Britain is now than it was then (magic? Happenstance?); he tells us how it is the same sofa but a different clique but then says how everyone has access to the same information, at once implying that the public has power and that they have made the wrong choices, while surely "angry nativism" and "Kipper" are synonyms.
Oh but then he lauds the contribution that immigrants make, as you note with that Holehouse tweet, presumably also in Clacton, and Dagenham and Bourne. And lauds feminism and attitudes towards the disabled. Well done. But then he goes off course: shouldn't have joined the euro? We didn't. Want real change? Cam has promised it (ok you don't believe he will do something in two years' time but no one can prove now he won't). Cons only did the right thing because they were forced to by their own side? But I thought this was sofa politics at No.10 and now all of a sudden there is intra-party democracy. Not serious about Europe? Who cares we get a referendum.
So, yet another solipsistic (ex-)Tory backbench w&nker but a slick one and probably sincere within his limited understanding of the world so fair play to him; one thing is for sure, as @Alanbrooke has pointed out, he won't be satisfied muddling along as a backbench MP in UKIP and he already sounds more leader-ish than Farage.
The other Tory MP's whose constituency is partly in Tendring is one Bernard Jenkin. Has he yet commented on his neighbour's defection?
Another good one, will Jenkin follow him? If yes, now or after his victory?
IIRC he said No, along with Peter Bone.
Anyway Miss P
what have you been up to of late ?
good to see you back posting.
Nerding over the plot holes of TV shows, and the psychology of ensemble drama characters... It gets very heated at times, particularly if you say something critical of another poster's favourites. Clearly being rude or badly informed isn't restricted to political forums! :^)
The other Tory MP's whose constituency is partly in Tendring is one Bernard Jenkin. Has he yet commented on his neighbour's defection?
Another good one, will Jenkin follow him? If yes, now or after his victory?
IIRC he said No, along with Peter Bone.
Anyway Miss P
what have you been up to of late ?
good to see you back posting.
Nerding over the plot holes of TV shows, and the psychology of ensemble drama characters... It gets very heated at times, particularly if you say something critical of another poster's favourites. Clearly being rude or badly informed isn't restricted to political forums! :^)
Rumours of another UKIP press conference tomorrow ! If true wonder who is next ? Could it be a Labour MP ? Would be a good strategy from UKIP to show that they have people from Tories and Labour who are moving to them.
Stating you hate waste in the public sector, yet wanting a pointless referendum on the Lisbon treaty after it had been ratified;
Stating you want out of the EU, yet publicly supporting one of the most pro-EU MPs in the last parliament who will do nothing to further that aim;
Stating two 'principles' on when we should intervene in conflicts, yet ignoring that those two 'principles' would have stopped us intervening in the Falklands, and indeed WWII and about every other conflict we have ever been involved with.
There you go. But I'll take something back~; they are not elastic. "Your principles are hideously broken" fits better. In fact, I think you make them up as you go along.
Utter garbage and you know it. It actually made me laugh seeing you write that.
1. As I have stated many times before a post ratification referendum would in no way have been pointless as it would have made a clear statement of intent on the part of a new British government that they wanted a fundamental change in our relationship with the Eu and that that was backed by the will of the people.
2. I assume you are talking about my support for Nick Palmer. That support - which is entirely theoretical given that he is not my MP - is based on friendship which I consider more important than almost anything else. Unlike you apparently I do not so easily abandon my friends for the sake of something as sordid as politics.
3. Your comprehension of history is clearly so utterly flawed that you are incapable of understanding the differences between the various conflicts you mention. I have stated very clearly in the past those differences and how they affect my view of the modern military adventures you support. That you are unable to understand that shows either a shocking lack of intelligence or utterly unprincipled opportunism. I am guessing the second but am willing to contemplate the first.
Carswell is deeply deeply misguided and makes no sense.
He decries government and then tells us how much better Britain is now than it was then (magic? Happenstance?); he tells us how it is the same sofa but a different clique but then says how everyone has access to the same information, at once implying that the public has power and that they have made the wrong choices, while surely "angry nativism" and "Kipper" are synonyms.
Oh but then he lauds the contribution that immigrants make, as you note with that Holehouse tweet, presumably also in Clacton, and Dagenham and Bourne. And lauds feminism and attitudes towards the disabled. Well done. But then he goes off course: shouldn't have joined the euro? We didn't. Want real change? Cam has promised it (ok you don't believe he will do something in two years' time but no one can prove now he won't). Cons only did the right thing because they were forced to by their own side? But I thought this was sofa politics at No.10 and now all of a sudden there is intra-party democracy. Not serious about Europe? Who cares we get a referendum.
So, yet another solipsistic (ex-)Tory backbench w&nker but a slick one and probably sincere within his limited understanding of the world so fair play to him; one thing is for sure, as @Alanbrooke has pointed out, he won't be satisfied muddling along as a backbench MP in UKIP and he already sounds more leader-ish than Farage.
Apologies for bringing up the S-word again, as I'm completely sick of it too.
But for those asking about the timing of this announcement relative to the Scottish Independence referendum, have you considered that Douglas Carswell doesn't care for Scotland remaining in the union? It seems wrong to assume that everyone English wants Scotland to remain part of the UK.
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 4m S Yorkshire Police Officer Daniel Cookson, previously based in Rotherham, charged with causing 15-year-old girl to engage in sexual activity
There is a Libertarian strand of UKIP he would fit in with very well. It has unfortunately been on the wane in recent years but I would hope that more senior members like Carswell would see that reversed.
Still not utterly convinced by him though given that he did vote against Gay marriage - for reasons which are still a complete mystery to me even after trying very hard to find any real justification he might have put forward.
Nothing of any importance then, like reforming education, welfare, local government, pensions, health. No support for difficult decisions on the economy - a miserable economy inherited from labour and which he is now determined to hand back to them. What a pathetic blinkered obsessive fool.
His remark about modernising parliament are bazaar.
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 4m S Yorkshire Police Officer Daniel Cookson, previously based in Rotherham, charged with causing 15-year-old girl to engage in sexual activity
Does that mean that someone has realised that age of consent means something?
Sky: Rotherham Police Constable charged with sexual offences against a 15-year old girl...
Political correctness, and/or misogyny may not be the only potential reasons for non-action by the authorities in Rotherham. Financial corruption, or involvement in unlawful sexual activity may also be issues.
Apologies for bringing up the S-word again, as I'm completely sick of it too.
But for those asking about the timing of this announcement relative to the Scottish Independence referendum, have you considered that Douglas Carswell doesn't care for Scotland remaining in the union? It seems wrong to assume that everyone English wants Scotland to remain part of the UK.
Nothing of any importance then, like reforming education, welfare, local government, pensions, health. No support for difficult decisions on the economy - a miserable economy inherited from labour and which he is now determined to hand back to them. What a pathetic blinkered obsessive fool.
His remark about modernising parliament are bazaar.
Actually if you bothered to watch his speech instead of relying upon tweets then you would know he did mention many other topics including health and reform of government.
Carswell is deeply deeply misguided and makes no sense.
He decries government and then tells us how much better Britain is now than it was then (magic? Happenstance?); he tells us how it is the same sofa but a different clique but then says how everyone has access to the same information, at once implying that the public has power and that they have made the wrong choices, while surely "angry nativism" and "Kipper" are synonyms.
Oh but then he lauds the contribution that immigrants make, as you note with that Holehouse tweet, presumably also in Clacton, and Dagenham and Bourne. And lauds feminism and attitudes towards the disabled. Well done. But then he goes off course: shouldn't have joined the euro? We didn't. Want real change? Cam has promised it (ok you don't believe he will do something in two years' time but no one can prove now he won't). Cons only did the right thing because they were forced to by their own side? But I thought this was sofa politics at No.10 and now all of a sudden there is intra-party democracy. Not serious about Europe? Who cares we get a referendum.
So, yet another solipsistic (ex-)Tory backbench w&nker but a slick one and probably sincere within his limited understanding of the world so fair play to him; one thing is for sure, as @Alanbrooke has pointed out, he won't be satisfied muddling along as a backbench MP in UKIP and he already sounds more leader-ish than Farage.
Nothing of any importance then, like reforming education, welfare, local government, pensions, health. No support for difficult decisions on the economy - a miserable economy inherited from labour and which he is now determined to hand back to them. What a pathetic blinkered obsessive fool.
His remark about modernising parliament are bazaar.
Carswell joining UKIP is not going to make them Labour friendly. Its going to mark them out as 'right wing'.
Fundamentally disagree. Carswell is not a right winger he's a libertarian. Not at all a 'hanger and flogger' sort.
Right wing's a variable (and oft complained about) term.
Too true. There was a time when perhaps someone's attitutdes to spending, law and order, homosexuality, civil liberties, defence, and any number of issues could be guessed correctly from knowing their position on just one. But now most people have a bewildering array of views across multiple issues.
For me the key driver is: Big state/spendy/collectivist (LEFT) vs small state/sound money/individual rights (RIGHT). But this says nothing on your views of gay marriage or Gaza or anything else.
For the BBC/Guardian the determinant is: Anything ethnic/progressive/PC/'kind' (LEFT) vs anything 'nasty' whatever it's nature or origin (RIGHT).
Left/right is a useless and deliberately misleading term.
In France the Front National take some pretty harsh views on immigration but are very very statist/collectivist/protectionist/spendy. I'd categorise them as deeply distasteful hard left. There's nothing right wing about them as per my definition above.
Just logged onto Facebook. Two of my Conservative "friends" aren't very complimentary about this development. One status reads: "Treacherous b*s*tard Carswell..."
Did Carswell leave the Conservatives or did the Conservatives leave Carswell?
The other Tory MP's whose constituency is partly in Tendring is one Bernard Jenkin. Has he yet commented on his neighbour's defection?
Another good one, will Jenkin follow him? If yes, now or after his victory?
IIRC he said No, along with Peter Bone.
Anyway Miss P
what have you been up to of late ?
good to see you back posting.
Nerding over the plot holes of TV shows, and the psychology of ensemble drama characters... It gets very heated at times, particularly if you say something critical of another poster's favourites. Clearly being rude or badly informed isn't restricted to political forums! :^)
Have just started Scandal.
NO SPOILERS PLEASE.
But it's rather good - one you like?
There are some clever twists and unexpected events. Reminds me of The West Wing in terms of rapid fire dialogue, I found it entertaining if highly implausible. I like Revenge - that's like Dynasty for 2014.
Sky: Rotherham Police Constable charged with sexual offences against a 15-year old girl...
Political correctness, and/or misogyny may not be the only potential reasons for non-action by the authorities in Rotherham. Financial corruption, or involvement in unlawful sexual activity may also be issues.
Oh dear, I hope that isn't in any way linked to the other horrors in Rotherham.
Carswell is deeply deeply misguided and makes no sense.
So, yet another solipsistic (ex-)Tory backbench w&nker but a slick one and probably sincere within his limited understanding of the world so fair play to him; one thing is for sure, as @Alanbrooke has pointed out, he won't be satisfied muddling along as a backbench MP in UKIP and he already sounds more leader-ish than Farage.
My position on Tory rebels has been consistent throughout if you are interested in looking back over my previous posts on the subject; you may find it fascinating and enlightening but probably not.
My point being that Carswell's speech if anything was as good an advert for the status quo as anything. He disagrees on Europe. He disagrees to the point whereby he wants to help bring down the Conservative Party because of all the things he thinks it has done well, it has not done the one thing that he identifies as most important.
Now that would be fine, were it not for the fact that the only party offering any realistic say in the matter is...the Tories.
And he is saying more than that: he is saying that lo and behold the Tories promised all these things and in government (in a coalition government) they have not delivered. Well hang me up and call me Mabel. Of course they haven't, it is a coalition government and lord help what would have been the outcome in 2015 if they had cut harder and faster, as he wished they had (what is the UKIP position on the deficit, by the way - will the famous abandoning of 0.7% of GDP on aid become their multi-committed bankers bonus bonanza?).
So it is Europe that he worries about; Europe that he is sulking about and Europe the reason that he has defected. Which makes him an idiot.
That, or he really is surprised that coalition (not to say democratic) politics works in the way it does, In which case there is a worse word for him.
Shadow foreign secretary Douglas Alexander told how the independence referendum has divided Scotland - after he was branded a liar on a radio phone in.
Mr Alexander said one of the challenges would be to “bring Scotland together” in three weeks’ time following the historic vote.
The leading Labour politician said he had been called “scum”, a “quisling” and “Judas” after speaking out in favour of the Union earlier this week.
And a caller on BBC Radio Scotland’s Morning Call programme today also attacked him for “scaremongering” over independence, before accusing the Paisley and Renfrewshire South MP of being a “f****** liar”.
Carswell is deeply deeply misguided and makes no sense.
So, yet another solipsistic (ex-)Tory backbench w&nker but a slick one and probably sincere within his limited understanding of the world so fair play to him; one thing is for sure, as @Alanbrooke has pointed out, he won't be satisfied muddling along as a backbench MP in UKIP and he already sounds more leader-ish than Farage.
My position on Tory rebels has been consistent throughout if you are interested in looking back over my previous posts on the subject; you may find it fascinating and enlightening but probably not.
My point being that Carswell's speech if anything was as good an advert for the status quo as anything. He disagrees on Europe. He disagrees to the point whereby he wants to help bring down the Conservative Party because of all the things he thinks it has done well, it has not done the one thing that he identifies as most important.
Now that would be fine, were it not for the fact that the only party offering any realistic say in the matter is...the Tories.
And he is saying more than that: he is saying that lo and behold the Tories promised all these things and in government (in a coalition government) they have not delivered. Well hang me up and call me Mabel. Of course they haven't, it is a coalition government and lord help what would have been the outcome in 2015 if they had cut harder and faster, as he wished they had (what is the UKIP position on the deficit, by the way - will the famous abandoning of 0.7% of GDP on aid become their multi-committed bankers bonus bonanza?).
So it is Europe that he worries about; Europe that he is sulking about and Europe the reason that he has defected. Which makes him an idiot.
That, or he really is surprised that coalition (not to say democratic) politics works in the way it does, In which case there is a worse word for him.
Smear? Nope. Damned by his own words? Yep.
Sorry but that doesn't work. Much of what he has complained about not having been enacted was supported by both parties in the Coalition. Indeed both Open Primaries and MP recall were in the official Coalition Agreement.
To try and claim that the Tories could not do this stuff because of the coalition is just pathetic.
I really couldn't agree more. And I quite liked Mr Carswell and read his/Mr Hannan's book. Lots of good ideas - however I feel Mr Carswell has lost his centre of gravity.
I understand that he's a passionate believer in what he says, however as you note - it's all over the place. It's like confusing reality with porn.
Mr Carswell wants satisfaction through political porn, because reality isn't sexy enough. Unfortunately for him, porn isn't real-life for 99.999% of us or you're a past Lib Dem PPC.
Carswell is deeply deeply misguided and makes no sense.
My position on Tory rebels has been consistent throughout if you are interested in looking back over my previous posts on the subject; you may find it fascinating and enlightening but probably not.
My point being that Carswell's speech if anything was as good an advert for the status quo as anything. He disagrees on Europe. He disagrees to the point whereby he wants to help bring down the Conservative Party because of all the things he thinks it has done well, it has not done the one thing that he identifies as most important.
Now that would be fine, were it not for the fact that the only party offering any realistic say in the matter is...the Tories.
And he is saying more than that: he is saying that lo and behold the Tories promised all these things and in government (in a coalition government) they have not delivered. Well hang me up and call me Mabel. Of course they haven't, it is a coalition government and lord help what would have been the outcome in 2015 if they had cut harder and faster, as he wished they had (what is the UKIP position on the deficit, by the way - will the famous abandoning of 0.7% of GDP on aid become their multi-committed bankers bonus bonanza?).
So it is Europe that he worries about; Europe that he is sulking about and Europe the reason that he has defected. Which makes him an idiot.
That, or he really is surprised that coalition (not to say democratic) politics works in the way it does, In which case there is a worse word for him.
While austerity wracked Germany starts to shed jobs and stagnate, austerity-eschewing US powers ahead and remains the fastest growing economy in the G7.
Added to a complete government revolt in France over austerity (Hollande is an albatross for the Tories, not Labour).
Things are looking up for Miliband if he wants to describe the path away from Osborne's disastrous handling of the economy. Look to the US.
Hilarious. Its salutary that you remind us just what sort of idiots those who want to vote UKIP are going to deliver to us. You talk preposterous rubbish. Holland has driven the French economy in to the ground by following the spending policies Balls was shouting about.
America has been cutting spending and raising taxes. ''Austerity in 2013 Several tax increases took effect in January 2013: new Obamacare taxes, the expiration of the payroll tax, and “fiscal cliff” tax increases. During the fiscal year (which ended on September 30), those together increased taxes by $188 billion.'' ''The spending cuts (i.e., sequestration) took effect in March 2013. Sequestration reduced fiscal year (FY) 2013 budget authority by $85 billion, but only $42 billion of the cuts took effect during FY 2013'' http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/11/america-s-austerity-tax-increases-and-deficit-reduction
Its clear that from listening to you we can put our heads between our legs and kiss goodbye to debt and deficit reduction under labour
Shadow foreign secretary Douglas Alexander told how the independence referendum has divided Scotland - after he was branded a liar on a radio phone in.
Mr Alexander said one of the challenges would be to “bring Scotland together” in three weeks’ time following the historic vote.
The leading Labour politician said he had been called “scum”, a “quisling” and “Judas” after speaking out in favour of the Union earlier this week.
And a caller on BBC Radio Scotland’s Morning Call programme today also attacked him for “scaremongering” over independence, before accusing the Paisley and Renfrewshire South MP of being a “f****** liar”.
I can understand why the SNP worry about the Scottish NHS, there will be a lot a very angry middle-aged men on 19th September. Apoplexy Central.
Tories on here are getting really desperate today. It was your fault the Right got split, because you comprehensively failed to do anything about conservative concerns on civil liberties, on the EU, on immigration. Rather than be spiteful to the party actually representing those concerns, perhaps you could try addressing them...
Err, the Conservatives are doing something abut the EU. A referendum in 2017.
On civil liberties, to claim UKIP are 'addressing concerns' is just a joke. Only a few days ago Farage was advocating citizens being stripped of their citizenshp by executive fiat.
On immigration, the government is reducing non-EU immigration (as much as it can within the constraints of coalition with a pro-immigration party). That is all it can do until we've sorted out the EU aspect.
But go ahead, put the two Eds into Nos 10 and 11 Downing Street. I'm sure that will address your concerns.
I do not want the 2 Ed's anywhere near power.
But, how the hell do you think we can sort out EU immigration whilst remaining within the EU?
I just can't square that circle and neither I suspect can a lot of UKIP leaners.
BTW bravo mr Carswell for giving the voters a say on your move.
Tories on here are getting really desperate today. It was your fault the Right got split, because you comprehensively failed to do anything about conservative concerns on civil liberties, on the EU, on immigration. Rather than be spiteful to the party actually representing those concerns, perhaps you could try addressing them...
Err, the Conservatives are doing something abut the EU. A referendum in 2017.
On civil liberties, to claim UKIP are 'addressing concerns' is just a joke. Only a few days ago Farage was advocating citizens being stripped of their citizenshp by executive fiat.
On immigration, the government is reducing non-EU immigration (as much as it can within the constraints of coalition with a pro-immigration party). That is all it can do until we've sorted out the EU aspect.
But go ahead, put the two Eds into Nos 10 and 11 Downing Street. I'm sure that will address your concerns.
I do not want the 2 Ed's anywhere near power.
But, how the hell do you think we can sort out EU immigration whilst remaining within the EU?
I just can't square that circle and neither I suspect can a lot of UKIP leaners.
BTW bravo mr Carswell for giving the voters a say on your move.
The key point for me is Cameron saying that he will only seek the "bare minimum" in terms of renegotiating our membership of the EU.
Apologies for bringing up the S-word again, as I'm completely sick of it too.
But for those asking about the timing of this announcement relative to the Scottish Independence referendum, have you considered that Douglas Carswell doesn't care for Scotland remaining in the union? It seems wrong to assume that everyone English wants Scotland to remain part of the UK.
Too true. There was a time when perhaps someone's attitutdes to spending, law and order, homosexuality, civil liberties, defence, and any number of issues could be guessed correctly from knowing their position on just one. But now most people have a bewildering array of views across multiple issues.
For me the key driver is: Big state/spendy/collectivist (LEFT) vs small state/sound money/individual rights (RIGHT). But this says nothing on your views of gay marriage or Gaza or anything else.
For the BBC/Guardian the determinant is: Anything ethnic/progressive/PC/'kind' (LEFT) vs anything 'nasty' whatever it's nature or origin (RIGHT).
Left/right is a useless and deliberately misleading term.
In France the Front National take some pretty harsh views on immigration but are very very statist/collectivist/protectionist/spendy. I'd categorise them as deeply distasteful hard left. There's nothing right wing about them as per my definition above.
Iirc how issues have been traditionally bundled up varies from country to country.
And of course you can view issues in different lights etc, and the difference can be down to reasoning as much as actual policy position (I think your right-ish opinions come strongly out in your definitions).
The BNP are notably economically left wing but socially right wing, and since no-one pays attention to BNP economic policy they get referred to in short hand as right-wing.
It's well known as a broken terminology, and around the internet are definition scales using everything from 2 (political compass being fairly well known) to 20 dimensions. Thing is left and right are so widespread and still hang together somewhat, that people still use them.
It looks as if the writ will be moved in the September mini-session
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn · 9m Clacton by-election date news: I'm told the Tories are not going to hang around. Expect it on the 9th or 16th October. More
Rumours of another UKIP press conference tomorrow ! If true wonder who is next ? Could it be a Labour MP ? Would be a good strategy from UKIP to show that they have people from Tories and Labour who are moving to them.
(what is the UKIP position on the deficit, by the way - will the famous abandoning of 0.7% of GDP on aid become their multi-committed bankers bonus bonanza?).
That's the curious thing. UKIP has recently morphed into a deficit-denial party. They want to:
- Retain the spare-room subsidy - 'Protect your benefits' - Big reductions in income tax - A new Veterans' Department - An end to hospital parking charges
All to be paid for by (yes, you were right) 'looking at' overseas aid, and some unspecified savings from the Department for Energy & Climate Change (which doesn't spend much) and Business, Innovation and Skills.
'“As far as I’m concerned I’m carrying on,” said Roger Lord, 57, UKIP’s existing candidate for the Clacton, who has been left in limbo as a result of this morning’s announcement. “If Mr Carswell wants to join us then he can get in the queue and hand out leaflets with the rest of us. Now that I’ve announced my campaign team, which now includes many members of his campaign team, his vote looks to be sinking quite quickly.”'
Ha! My day is officially made. The guy is a GENUINE retired colonel!! No, really. From the article:
“I’ve been through dangerous situations in Pakistan and South America and you negotiate them: I’ve had a sixteen-year-old shove a machine gun up my nose in Nicaragua. I’ve faced bigger threats from real killers and if they think they can walk up to me and push me then I’ll push back. I’ve never run away from anything.”
He gave the fuzzy-wuzzies what for, I'm sure. What?
(what is the UKIP position on the deficit, by the way - will the famous abandoning of 0.7% of GDP on aid become their multi-committed bankers bonus bonanza?).
That's the curious thing. UKIP has recently morphed into a deficit-denial party. They want to:
- Retain the spare-room subsidy - 'Protect your benefits' - Big reductions in income tax - A new Veterans' Department - An end to hospital parking charges
All to be paid for by (yes, you were right) 'looking at' overseas aid, and some unspecified savings from the Department for Energy & Climate Change (which doesn't spend much) and Business, Innovation and Skills.
You know what motivates Kippers. It isn't economics. It's not even Europe particularly.
David Cameron should have shown some leadership and taken on the fruitcake tendency in his party. Instead the jelly-spined idiot tried to triangulate his way out trouble by throwing them some morsels. Predictably enough, it just made the situation worse. The man is pathetic.
I remember watching a BBC programme in the late 1990s about social breakdown in Rotherham. It would be interesting to see it again in the light of current developments.
'“As far as I’m concerned I’m carrying on,” said Roger Lord, 57, UKIP’s existing candidate for the Clacton, who has been left in limbo as a result of this morning’s announcement. “If Mr Carswell wants to join us then he can get in the queue and hand out leaflets with the rest of us. Now that I’ve announced my campaign team, which now includes many members of his campaign team, his vote looks to be sinking quite quickly.”'
"Afraid of leaks and presumably remembering the messy was-he-sacked-did-he-defect row over Bob Spink, UKIP’s first MP, only two people – Farage and the man himself – knew what was coming: Douglas Carswell’s defection to UKIP."
Because the first thing Cameron did wouldn't be to call up his mates in the press to spin it the way the Tory leader wanted it in a pre-agreed line?
Don't be daft. Carswell could and should have let him know, just before the public announcement.
I'm very surprised at his discourtesy. I imagine it was an oversight, because I've always regarded him as a very decent and honourable man.
I wonder how soon he'll fall out with Farage. Carswell is in many ways an über-Cameroon; a lot of his complaints seem to be that there hasn't been enough of the type of reform he and Cameron were pushing for in the early days
The police force at the centre of the Rotherham child abuse scandal is still failing to record crimes against children properly, a report has said.
South Yorkshire Police's public protection unit spent a "great deal of time" trying to "disprove" allegations, said HM Inspectorate of Constabulary.
It said the force's public protection unit showed "a disregard for victims".
The new investigation, which saw HMIC inspectors visit South Yorkshire Police in FEBRUARY, threatened to put more pressure on police and crime commissioner Shaun Wright.
Is Cameron going to come out and deny the "bare minimum" claim?
No, because everyone knows it for years, they just pretend to not know it (Richard_Nabavi I'm looking at you) "for the good of the tory party, not let Labour in ect ect".
Under the new rules enacted by the Electoral Registration and Administration Act 2013, the earliest date for the by-election is Thursday 2 October, if the writ is moved early next week.
If the Clacton by-election result is a foregone conclusion as UKIP's 2/9 odds suggest, please will Ladbrokes or another bookie sex things up a little by, for example, offering odds on the percentage of the vote the Kippers achieve?
Carswell is the sort of politician we need more of, on both left and right. Decent, honest, hardworking, and independently minded. I may not agree with everything he says, but I like his honesty, especially his decision to put his job on the line. I hope he gets back in.
Shadow foreign secretary Douglas Alexander told how the independence referendum has divided Scotland - after he was branded a liar on a radio phone in.
Mr Alexander said one of the challenges would be to “bring Scotland together” in three weeks’ time following the historic vote.
The leading Labour politician said he had been called “scum”, a “quisling” and “Judas” after speaking out in favour of the Union earlier this week.
And a caller on BBC Radio Scotland’s Morning Call programme today also attacked him for “scaremongering” over independence, before accusing the Paisley and Renfrewshire South MP of being a “f****** liar”.
I can understand why the SNP worry about the Scottish NHS, there will be a lot a very angry middle-aged men on 19th September. Apoplexy Central.
Only one of Scotland's 14 health boards is consistently meeting accident and emergency waiting time targets.
Utter garbage and you know it. It actually made me laugh seeing you write that.
1. As I have stated many times before a post ratification referendum would in no way have been pointless as it would have made a clear statement of intent on the part of a new British government that they wanted a fundamental change in our relationship with the Eu and that that was backed by the will of the people.
2. I assume you are talking about my support for Nick Palmer. That support - which is entirely theoretical given that he is not my MP - is based on friendship which I consider more important than almost anything else. Unlike you apparently I do not so easily abandon my friends for the sake of something as sordid as politics.
3. Your comprehension of history is clearly so utterly flawed that you are incapable of understanding the differences between the various conflicts you mention. I have stated very clearly in the past those differences and how they affect my view of the modern military adventures you support. That you are unable to understand that shows either a shocking lack of intelligence or utterly unprincipled opportunism. I am guessing the second but am willing to contemplate the first.
1) You wanted to spend around £100 to 200 million on a referendum on a treaty that had already been signed, in order to make a 'clear statement'. The AV and Scottish Independence referendums have shown us how difficult it is to get a 'yes' even when the headline consequences of a result are fixed and known. Your referendum would have been laughed down, and a meaningful EU vote put back for a generation.
2) 'Unlike you apparently'. It is because I value my family and friends that I find UKIP and many - although far from all - of its supporters anathema. You pretend to be a Libertarian and against the EU - I'm quite amazed how you can marry that with political support for Nick Palmer. Whilst Nick might be a thoroughly good egg in private, he's not exactly an exemplar of those two traits politically. There is a difference between having someone as a friend and supporting them politically, which you have done on here passim.
3) My comprehension of history is as good and/or flawed as anyone else's. This is the funniest of your rebuttals: you were floundering so invented two 'principles' which magically only apply to the Syrian intervention. I did not want an intervention last year from any gung-ho militaristic fervour (as you claimed before as part of a series of slurs); I supported it reluctantly because I could see we were on the cusp of something much worse, and because the use of chemical weapons should be punished. I was proved right.
I see you try to insult me three times in your screed above. Perhaps you should leave off such pathetic attacks and examine your own principles instead.
If the Clacton by-election result is a foregone conclusion as UKIP's 2/9 odds suggest, please will Ladbrokes or another bookie sex things up a little by, for example, offering odds on the percentage of the vote the Kippers achieve?
As a life long West Ham supporter I always expect the worst results from my team and never believe they will actually win something until after the contest is finished.
I have transferred that attitude to my UKIP support as well.
Much as I would love it to happen I will believe UKIP can win Clacton the day after they actually achieve it.
AndyJs says they didn't select one. However: "Ukip’s Clacton party secretary Anne Poonian said they had asked Eurosceptic Mr Carswell to defect from the Tories and join them."
Shadow foreign secretary Douglas Alexander told how the independence referendum has divided Scotland - after he was branded a liar on a radio phone in.
Mr Alexander said one of the challenges would be to “bring Scotland together” in three weeks’ time following the historic vote.
The leading Labour politician said he had been called “scum”, a “quisling” and “Judas” after speaking out in favour of the Union earlier this week.
And a caller on BBC Radio Scotland’s Morning Call programme today also attacked him for “scaremongering” over independence, before accusing the Paisley and Renfrewshire South MP of being a “f****** liar”.
I can understand why the SNP worry about the Scottish NHS, there will be a lot a very angry middle-aged men on 19th September. Apoplexy Central.
Only one of Scotland's 14 health boards is consistently meeting accident and emergency waiting time targets.
Maybe, just maybe, if they had followed the English under both parties and looked for efficiencies and the reduction of bureaucracy by, where appropriate, having support services provided more efficiently from independent contractors or reducing the numbers of managers, the Scottish NHS would not be struggling in the way it is.
The Scottish NHS is still positioned for the years of plenty and almost nothing has been done to prepare it for years of frozen budgets. God knows what would happen to it after independence when the money gets seriously tight.
Margaret Davis @MargaretDavisPA 1m PA snap: Prime Minister David Cameron has called on South Yorkshire PCC Shaun Wright to quit in the wake of the Rotherham abuse report.
Must be a look squirrel moment for him for some reason.
Carswell is the sort of politician we need more of, on both left and right. Decent, honest, hardworking, and independently minded. I may not agree with everything he says, but I like his honesty, especially his decision to put his job on the line. I hope he gets back in.
Seconded
Thirded. I think he's made a mistake, but I've applauded him in the past, and I'll applaud him for following his conscience. Most remarkably of all, he's called a by-election. I think he'll win, but at least he'll give the voters a choice.
If it's true he did not tell Cameron in advance, then that's a little off. But as afar as I'm aware that's just a rumour.
(On a side note, I find myself slightly contradictory on this. I've always said 'vote for a candidate rather than a party', yet have always thought that a sitting MP changing parties should resign for a by-election. I'm not sure how I can thoroughly combine those two positions).
1) You wanted to spend around £100 to 200 million on a referendum on a treaty that had already been signed, in order to make a 'clear statement'. The AV and Scottish Independence referendums have shown us how difficult it is to get a 'yes' even when the headline consequences of a result are fixed and known. Your referendum would have been laughed down, and a meaningful EU vote put back for a generation.
2) 'Unlike you apparently'. It is because I value my family and friends that I find UKIP and many - although far from all - of its supporters anathema. You pretend to be a Libertarian and against the EU - I'm quite amazed how you can marry that with political support for Nick Palmer. Whilst Nick might be a thoroughly good egg in private, he's not exactly an exemplar of those two traits politically. There is a difference between having someone as a friend and supporting them politically, which you have done on here passim.
3) My comprehension of history is as good and/or flawed as anyone else's. This is the funniest of your rebuttals: you were floundering so invented two 'principles' which magically only apply to the Syrian intervention. I did not want an intervention last year from any gung-ho militaristic fervour (as you claimed before as part of a series of slurs); I supported it reluctantly because I could see we were on the cusp of something much worse, and because the use of chemical weapons should be punished. I was proved right.
I see you try to insult me three times in your screed above. Perhaps you should leave off such pathetic attacks and examine your own principles instead.
Interesting that your reply did nothing to deny the consistency of my position - which was of course your original smear. All you have said is that you disagree with my views - which of course you are entitled to do.
Given your performance over the last few months and your ability to twist the truth I am not surprised that you have found yourself unable to support your rather stupid allegations.
Clearly your inability to understand the concept of a principled position is what attracts you to Cameron.
I don't have anyone down as UKIP candidate for Clacton, and I have had some help from a UKIP member with the official list of candidates.
So they haven't selected anyone yet before Carswell? So is the Buzzfeed story inaccurate?
Not necessarily. It's possible the local UKIP branch selected a candidate without informing national party headquarters.
This would seem to be supported by the fact that Farage didn't make any comment about there already being a candidate in Clacton whom he would like to kindly ask to step aside. I'm sure he would have said something like that if he knew there was already a candidate in place.
Under the new rules enacted by the Electoral Registration and Administration Act 2013, the earliest date for the by-election is Thursday 2 October, if the writ is moved early next week.
Margaret Davis @MargaretDavisPA 1m PA snap: Prime Minister David Cameron has called on South Yorkshire PCC Shaun Wright to quit in the wake of the Rotherham abuse report.
Must be a look squirrel moment for him for some reason.
It's like a comedy sketch: "Prime Minister, Douglas Carswell has defected to UKIP, what should we do?" "I'll call for Shaun Wright to resign"
Comments
Mr Salmond’s argument for taking Scotland out of Britain is as flawed as Mr Farage’s demand for Britain to leave Europe.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b4e98426-2d35-11e4-aca0-00144feabdc0.html?siteedition=uk#axzz3BhEk1zBd
They're related contingencies. If he wins the first, the second is very likely to follow.
It's a typical PP stunt. They won't lose a lot and they get the kind of publicity they like.
Help yourselves, PBers!
He decries government and then tells us how much better Britain is now than it was then (magic? Happenstance?); he tells us how it is the same sofa but a different clique but then says how everyone has access to the same information, at once implying that the public has power and that they have made the wrong choices, while surely "angry nativism" and "Kipper" are synonyms.
Oh but then he lauds the contribution that immigrants make, as you note with that Holehouse tweet, presumably also in Clacton, and Dagenham and Bourne. And lauds feminism and attitudes towards the disabled. Well done. But then he goes off course: shouldn't have joined the euro? We didn't. Want real change? Cam has promised it (ok you don't believe he will do something in two years' time but no one can prove now he won't). Cons only did the right thing because they were forced to by their own side? But I thought this was sofa politics at No.10 and now all of a sudden there is intra-party democracy. Not serious about Europe? Who cares we get a referendum.
So, yet another solipsistic (ex-)Tory backbench w&nker but a slick one and probably sincere within his limited understanding of the world so fair play to him; one thing is for sure, as @Alanbrooke has pointed out, he won't be satisfied muddling along as a backbench MP in UKIP and he already sounds more leader-ish than Farage.
NO SPOILERS PLEASE.
But it's rather good - one you like?
Could it be a Labour MP ? Would be a good strategy from UKIP to show that they have people from Tories and Labour who are moving to them.
1. As I have stated many times before a post ratification referendum would in no way have been pointless as it would have made a clear statement of intent on the part of a new British government that they wanted a fundamental change in our relationship with the Eu and that that was backed by the will of the people.
2. I assume you are talking about my support for Nick Palmer. That support - which is entirely theoretical given that he is not my MP - is based on friendship which I consider more important than almost anything else. Unlike you apparently I do not so easily abandon my friends for the sake of something as sordid as politics.
3. Your comprehension of history is clearly so utterly flawed that you are incapable of understanding the differences between the various conflicts you mention. I have stated very clearly in the past those differences and how they affect my view of the modern military adventures you support. That you are unable to understand that shows either a shocking lack of intelligence or utterly unprincipled opportunism. I am guessing the second but am willing to contemplate the first.
Do we now get the anonymous smearing of @DouglasCarswell after his defection to @UKIP #dontbesurprised
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 4m
S Yorkshire Police Officer Daniel Cookson, previously based in Rotherham, charged with causing 15-year-old girl to engage in sexual activity
"Too soon after Rotherham! Discourteous to not tell Cameron! Too close to IndyRef! He would have opposed the Falklands War!"
It's hilarious.
Still not utterly convinced by him though given that he did vote against Gay marriage - for reasons which are still a complete mystery to me even after trying very hard to find any real justification he might have put forward.
Look people boob jokes. Straight form the Austin Powers film.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-28967053
No support for difficult decisions on the economy - a miserable economy inherited from labour and which he is now determined to hand back to them. What a pathetic blinkered obsessive fool.
His remark about modernising parliament are bazaar.
It never costs anything to be polite.
For me the key driver is: Big state/spendy/collectivist (LEFT) vs small state/sound money/individual rights (RIGHT). But this says nothing on your views of gay marriage or Gaza or anything else.
For the BBC/Guardian the determinant is: Anything ethnic/progressive/PC/'kind' (LEFT) vs anything 'nasty' whatever it's nature or origin (RIGHT).
Left/right is a useless and deliberately misleading term.
In France the Front National take some pretty harsh views on immigration but are very very statist/collectivist/protectionist/spendy. I'd categorise them as deeply distasteful hard left. There's nothing right wing about them as per my definition above.
[self moderated]
"South Yorkshire Police crime recording criticised in new report"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28971528
"David Cameron says he is extremely concerned by mounting evidence UKIP troops have made large-scale incursions into south eastern England"
Did Carswell leave the Conservatives or did the Conservatives leave Carswell?
My point being that Carswell's speech if anything was as good an advert for the status quo as anything. He disagrees on Europe. He disagrees to the point whereby he wants to help bring down the Conservative Party because of all the things he thinks it has done well, it has not done the one thing that he identifies as most important.
Now that would be fine, were it not for the fact that the only party offering any realistic say in the matter is...the Tories.
And he is saying more than that: he is saying that lo and behold the Tories promised all these things and in government (in a coalition government) they have not delivered. Well hang me up and call me Mabel. Of course they haven't, it is a coalition government and lord help what would have been the outcome in 2015 if they had cut harder and faster, as he wished they had (what is the UKIP position on the deficit, by the way - will the famous abandoning of 0.7% of GDP on aid become their multi-committed bankers bonus bonanza?).
So it is Europe that he worries about; Europe that he is sulking about and Europe the reason that he has defected. Which makes him an idiot.
That, or he really is surprised that coalition (not to say democratic) politics works in the way it does, In which case there is a worse word for him.
Smear? Nope. Damned by his own words? Yep.
Mr Alexander said one of the challenges would be to “bring Scotland together” in three weeks’ time following the historic vote.
The leading Labour politician said he had been called “scum”, a “quisling” and “Judas” after speaking out in favour of the Union earlier this week.
And a caller on BBC Radio Scotland’s Morning Call programme today also attacked him for “scaremongering” over independence, before accusing the Paisley and Renfrewshire South MP of being a “f****** liar”.
To try and claim that the Tories could not do this stuff because of the coalition is just pathetic.
I understand that he's a passionate believer in what he says, however as you note - it's all over the place. It's like confusing reality with porn.
Mr Carswell wants satisfaction through political porn, because reality isn't sexy enough. Unfortunately for him, porn isn't real-life for 99.999% of us or you're a past Lib Dem PPC.
250 Pakistani rapists to choose from and they go for.....
America has been cutting spending and raising taxes.
''Austerity in 2013
Several tax increases took effect in January 2013: new Obamacare taxes, the expiration of the payroll tax, and “fiscal cliff” tax increases. During the fiscal year (which ended on September 30), those together increased taxes by $188 billion.''
''The spending cuts (i.e., sequestration) took effect in March 2013. Sequestration reduced fiscal year (FY) 2013 budget authority by $85 billion, but only $42 billion of the cuts took effect during FY 2013''
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/11/america-s-austerity-tax-increases-and-deficit-reduction
Its clear that from listening to you we can put our heads between our legs and kiss goodbye to debt and deficit reduction under labour
But, how the hell do you think we can sort out EU immigration whilst remaining within the EU?
I just can't square that circle and neither I suspect can a lot of UKIP leaners.
BTW bravo mr Carswell for giving the voters a say on your move.
So I get the sense he doesn't feel particularly strongly about Scotland remaining in the UK.
And of course you can view issues in different lights etc, and the difference can be down to reasoning as much as actual policy position (I think your right-ish opinions come strongly out in your definitions).
The BNP are notably economically left wing but socially right wing, and since no-one pays attention to BNP economic policy they get referred to in short hand as right-wing.
It's well known as a broken terminology, and around the internet are definition scales using everything from 2 (political compass being fairly well known) to 20 dimensions. Thing is left and right are so widespread and still hang together somewhat, that people still use them.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/ukips-clacton-candidate-says-he-wont-stand-down-for-douglas
Could Miliband have issued a more cliched line?
O/T a 2:1 majority oppose all-women shortlists.
- Retain the spare-room subsidy
- 'Protect your benefits'
- Big reductions in income tax
- A new Veterans' Department
- An end to hospital parking charges
All to be paid for by (yes, you were right) 'looking at' overseas aid, and some unspecified savings from the Department for Energy & Climate Change (which doesn't spend much) and Business, Innovation and Skills.
'“As far as I’m concerned I’m carrying on,” said Roger Lord, 57, UKIP’s existing candidate for the Clacton, who has been left in limbo as a result of this morning’s announcement. “If Mr Carswell wants to join us then he can get in the queue and hand out leaflets with the rest of us. Now that I’ve announced my campaign team, which now includes many members of his campaign team, his vote looks to be sinking quite quickly.”'
Day 1 and they're already fighting.
No wonder Carswell's leaving.
Ha! My day is officially made. The guy is a GENUINE retired colonel!! No, really. From the article:
“I’ve been through dangerous situations in Pakistan and South America and you negotiate them: I’ve had a sixteen-year-old shove a machine gun up my nose in Nicaragua. I’ve faced bigger threats from real killers and if they think they can walk up to me and push me then I’ll push back. I’ve never run away from anything.”
He gave the fuzzy-wuzzies what for, I'm sure. What?
David Cameron should have shown some leadership and taken on the fruitcake tendency in his party. Instead the jelly-spined idiot tried to triangulate his way out trouble by throwing them some morsels. Predictably enough, it just made the situation worse. The man is pathetic.
http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2014/08/carswell-defects-to-ukip.html
"Afraid of leaks and presumably remembering the messy was-he-sacked-did-he-defect row over Bob Spink, UKIP’s first MP, only two people – Farage and the man himself – knew what was coming: Douglas Carswell’s defection to UKIP."
I'm very surprised at his discourtesy. I imagine it was an oversight, because I've always regarded him as a very decent and honourable man.
I wonder how soon he'll fall out with Farage. Carswell is in many ways an über-Cameroon; a lot of his complaints seem to be that there hasn't been enough of the type of reform he and Cameron were pushing for in the early days
South Yorkshire Police's public protection unit spent a "great deal of time" trying to "disprove" allegations, said HM Inspectorate of Constabulary.
It said the force's public protection unit showed "a disregard for victims".
The new investigation, which saw HMIC inspectors visit South Yorkshire Police in FEBRUARY, threatened to put more pressure on police and crime commissioner Shaun Wright.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28971528
But don't worry nobody is going to lose their job, lessons have been learned*, everybody is doing a fantastic job given all the CUTTTTTTTTTTTS...
* I think there just be a new law, any person in a position of power that utters that nonsense should automatically be disciplined !
The collective noun for swans depends if they are up in the air or on the ground. It really writes itself doesn't it?
Edit and when they are in the air it is a wedge (presumably of EU money).
So is the Buzzfeed story inaccurate?
http://news.stv.tv/tayside/289719-nhs-tayside-is-only-health-board-to-meet-ae-waiting-targets/
I blame Westminster Toreeeees!
2) 'Unlike you apparently'. It is because I value my family and friends that I find UKIP and many - although far from all - of its supporters anathema. You pretend to be a Libertarian and against the EU - I'm quite amazed how you can marry that with political support for Nick Palmer. Whilst Nick might be a thoroughly good egg in private, he's not exactly an exemplar of those two traits politically. There is a difference between having someone as a friend and supporting them politically, which you have done on here passim.
3) My comprehension of history is as good and/or flawed as anyone else's. This is the funniest of your rebuttals: you were floundering so invented two 'principles' which magically only apply to the Syrian intervention. I did not want an intervention last year from any gung-ho militaristic fervour (as you claimed before as part of a series of slurs); I supported it reluctantly because I could see we were on the cusp of something much worse, and because the use of chemical weapons should be punished. I was proved right.
I see you try to insult me three times in your screed above. Perhaps you should leave off such pathetic attacks and examine your own principles instead.
I have transferred that attitude to my UKIP support as well.
Much as I would love it to happen I will believe UKIP can win Clacton the day after they actually achieve it.
http://www.ukipessex.org/?p=371
But of course the little man will be swept aside by the big guns from head office.
Almost like a grown-up party.
However:
"Ukip’s Clacton party secretary Anne Poonian said they had asked Eurosceptic Mr Carswell to defect from the Tories and join them."
Maybe, just maybe, if they had followed the English under both parties and looked for efficiencies and the reduction of bureaucracy by, where appropriate, having support services provided more efficiently from independent contractors or reducing the numbers of managers, the Scottish NHS would not be struggling in the way it is.
The Scottish NHS is still positioned for the years of plenty and almost nothing has been done to prepare it for years of frozen budgets. God knows what would happen to it after independence when the money gets seriously tight.
http://www.ukipessex.org/?p=371
Margaret Davis @MargaretDavisPA 1m
PA snap: Prime Minister David Cameron has called on South Yorkshire PCC Shaun Wright to quit in the wake of the Rotherham abuse report.
Must be a look squirrel moment for him for some reason.
If it's true he did not tell Cameron in advance, then that's a little off. But as afar as I'm aware that's just a rumour.
(On a side note, I find myself slightly contradictory on this. I've always said 'vote for a candidate rather than a party', yet have always thought that a sitting MP changing parties should resign for a by-election. I'm not sure how I can thoroughly combine those two positions).
Given your performance over the last few months and your ability to twist the truth I am not surprised that you have found yourself unable to support your rather stupid allegations.
Clearly your inability to understand the concept of a principled position is what attracts you to Cameron.
This would seem to be supported by the fact that Farage didn't make any comment about there already being a candidate in Clacton whom he would like to kindly ask to step aside. I'm sure he would have said something like that if he knew there was already a candidate in place.
"Prime Minister, Douglas Carswell has defected to UKIP, what should we do?"
"I'll call for Shaun Wright to resign"