Musk is free to suggest a dissolution and the government is free to laugh in his face.
It’s gonna be hilarious if Musk and Ackmann convince Trump to slap sanctions on us for human rights failings re children and gangs
Very very dark, but not with humour
You really need to keep a lid on that "patriotism" of yours.
Yeah, it's amazing how so many people who screech about how much they love this country are happy to see Musk trash our reputation and interfere with our democracy.
Pathetic paper patriots.
Maybe we want to see the people who perpetrated the cover up of Muslim rape gangs get justice and that's more important than nationalism or patriotism? I love this country and yet this crime that was perpetrated and covered up shames the nation, the wilful blindness, the threats by the police against parents, the threats by councillors against whistle blowers it all needs to be aired in public for the world to see or we won't ever get past it. The longer it stays in the dark and festers the more trust in public life erodes and it's not exactly brilliant at the moment.
It's not enough that the rapists are seemingly finally being banged up, those who covered for them need to be banged up too and given exemplary sentences. They allowed these gangs to continue operating, they kept parents away from their children and left them to be tortured and raped on a daily basis. A rapist is going to rape and they should be put in prison to protect the public. A politician who turns a blind eye to it is a danger to society at large because they're aiding and abetting criminality at a large scale.
He's doing much more than that. He's attacking our elected government and trashing our country's reputation, and this is just his *latest* tool.
I'd also point out that he is, despite being an immigrant himself, rabidly anti-immigrant. Or the 'wrong' sort of immigrant. You may want to consider when the anti-immigration feelings he is broadcasting will start affecting *your* community, and not just Muslims.
Because after they come for my wife (who is an immigrant from a Muslim country), they may start coming after other immigrants. That's the way racists work.
Is the government so weak it can't stand a bit of scrutiny? The Tory government endured much worse for 14 years.
I don't think you understand just how sickening the rape gangs were and the kind of attitude that still pervades among authorities that covered for them. The reason I want a full public inquiry that airs all of the dirty laundry is so that those far right conspiracy theorists are no longer able to use it as a political tool for their ends. If we have the inquiry, start prosecuting the people responsible for the coverups, put measures in place to never allow it to happen again, pay millions in compensation to the victims, let the whistle blowers go public and tell their stories, give the victims their say unimpeded and unadulterated. Don't let anyone off the hook and chase it as high as it goes, even if it implicates multiple home/justice secretaries who also turned a blind eye from the Labour and Tory governments.
This can never be allowed to happen again and frankly your concern over "but the immigrants might feel unsafe if it's made public" is exactly what has caused this all in the first place.
Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. You seem very keen to blame everyone who disagrees with you for being in league with those who 'caused' this.
To be clear: I am not. And I have talked a hell of a lot more about all forms of abuse on here than you ever have.
As for government scrutiny: I'm all for it. But supporting a racist like Tommy Robinson is *not* scrutinising the government. It is supporting a racist.
You can't decide your position on something based on saying the opposite to Tommy Robinson. Even bad people and idiots are right sometimes. Hell, there are one or two things I agree with Jeremy Corbyn about.
If someone, anyone, had done some real digging when Nick Griffin mentioned it on Question Time in 2009…
Musk is free to suggest a dissolution and the government is free to laugh in his face.
It’s gonna be hilarious if Musk and Ackmann convince Trump to slap sanctions on us for human rights failings re children and gangs
Very very dark, but not with humour
You really need to keep a lid on that "patriotism" of yours.
Yeah, it's amazing how so many people who screech about how much they love this country are happy to see Musk trash our reputation and interfere with our democracy.
Pathetic paper patriots.
Maybe we want to see the people who perpetrated the cover up of Muslim rape gangs get justice and that's more important than nationalism or patriotism? I love this country and yet this crime that was perpetrated and covered up shames the nation, the wilful blindness, the threats by the police against parents, the threats by councillors against whistle blowers it all needs to be aired in public for the world to see or we won't ever get past it. The longer it stays in the dark and festers the more trust in public life erodes and it's not exactly brilliant at the moment.
It's not enough that the rapists are seemingly finally being banged up, those who covered for them need to be banged up too and given exemplary sentences. They allowed these gangs to continue operating, they kept parents away from their children and left them to be tortured and raped on a daily basis. A rapist is going to rape and they should be put in prison to protect the public. A politician who turns a blind eye to it is a danger to society at large because they're aiding and abetting criminality at a large scale.
He's doing much more than that. He's attacking our elected government and trashing our country's reputation, and this is just his *latest* tool.
I'd also point out that he is, despite being an immigrant himself, rabidly anti-immigrant. Or the 'wrong' sort of immigrant. You may want to consider when the anti-immigration feelings he is broadcasting will start affecting *your* community, and not just Muslims.
Because after they come for my wife (who is an immigrant from a Muslim country), they may start coming after other immigrants. That's the way racists work.
Is the government so weak it can't stand a bit of scrutiny? The Tory government endured much worse for 14 years.
I don't think you understand just how sickening the rape gangs were and the kind of attitude that still pervades among authorities that covered for them. The reason I want a full public inquiry that airs all of the dirty laundry is so that those far right conspiracy theorists are no longer able to use it as a political tool for their ends. If we have the inquiry, start prosecuting the people responsible for the coverups, put measures in place to never allow it to happen again, pay millions in compensation to the victims, let the whistle blowers go public and tell their stories, give the victims their say unimpeded and unadulterated. Don't let anyone off the hook and chase it as high as it goes, even if it implicates multiple home/justice secretaries who also turned a blind eye from the Labour and Tory governments.
This can never be allowed to happen again and frankly your concern over "but the immigrants might feel unsafe if it's made public" is exactly what has caused this all in the first place.
Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. You seem very keen to blame everyone who disagrees with you for being in league with those who 'caused' this.
To be clear: I am not. And I have talked a hell of a lot more about all forms of abuse on here than you ever have.
As for government scrutiny: I'm all for it. But supporting a racist like Tommy Robinson is *not* scrutinising the government. It is supporting a racist.
You can't decide your position on something based on saying the opposite to Tommy Robinson. Even bad people and idiots are right sometimes. Hell, there are one or two things I agree with Jeremy Corbyn about.
You can easily raise and promote the issue without invoking Tommy Robinson or his fans. Musk certainly has the power to do that, and it would have bene helpful if he had.
Could someone in her party send her the link? Or tell her about the Drew Review and Operation Stovewood by the NCA. Or the Jay report or what Dame Louise Casey has done?
Or remind her of what her fellow Cabinet Minister, Suellla Braverman, the Home Secretary to do in May 2023 when the final IICSA Report came out?
This is bandwagon jumping of the most tawdry kind instead of action - which she could have been asking for when she was an actual Cabinet Minister.
What magnificent results have these reports and enquiries produced?
The Drew Review was used to improve the approach of South Yorkshire Police.
Operation Stovewood: run by the NCA is the largest criminal enforcement investigation into non-family CSE. It has identified 1100 victims, has 50 investigations outstanding and has led to 36 convictions.
The Jay Report was used to improve services within Rotherham Council which was put into special measures. The council leader and head of children's services left.
It is something. By no means enough, of course.
But what actual use will yet another inquiry costing millions, reporting in a decade or so and telling us stuff we already know be? Because my suspicion is that this is not really about joining dots or understanding the manifold causes of male sexual violence - let alone taking effective action against it - but political point-scoring and a disguised fight about immigration, in which the needs of the victims - girls mostly - will largely be ignored.
Kemi is absolutely right to demand a full public enquiry. We quite rightly had one when postmasters' lives and livelihoods were ruined by public servants whose actions bordered on criminal. The victims of the grooming gangs deserve just as much justice, and the enablers of this abuse must be made to answer for their behaviour, and the causes brought into the open and eliminated from the public sphere.
This initiative is aligned to Kemi's long-held public stances on culture, and the stress she places on public bodies that don't work. It isn't just necessary, it feels authentic to her and what she stands for.
🙂↔️ you are clueless.
Kemi is in an official office, but the front page of today’s Daily Telegraph and Musk on X decides strategy and positions for her?
Then Kemi MUST lead at PMQs asking: how many beloved pets have been stolen and eaten by these outsiders to our country, for sure that hell is warmer than North Yorkshire today Bobby J will ask exactly this, at any moment.
This politics is developing just as awful for the Conservatives and their leader as could possibly have feared - ‘voting blocks’ on the marmite questions at the next General Election that favours Labour and Libdems mopping up seats from small % of votes from shrinking turnouts.
All Kemi’s questions at the next PMQs, at ALL PMQs this year, must flag to voters how an incoming government inherited a growing economy, that will now have absolutely no growth for the whole of 2025! leading to higher taxes and more borrowing to fill the expanding black hole.
Kemi should look to today’s FT front page, not the DT.
I think comparing the very real nightmare of gang-raped girls to rumours about Haitans eating pets is a bit rich for my blood to be honest, whether that was your intention or not.
There’s a goat gone missing around here, a much beloved family pet. Are you not thinking what we are all thinking about what’s happened to it? 🐐
It’s “that lot” over there - outsiders surging into our community, responsible for ALL the bad things, from no decent housing or dentists, to grooming gangs, and pets eaten.
If we tolerate this, our own families will be next.
Plus the fact Starmer was head of the criminal justice system, so any enquiry is really all about asking him why he failed us.
The intention is pointing out to everyone, you are a fellow traveller with fascism.
You don't deserve a response, but I shall give one just in case anyone gives a second thought to your thick-witted allegations.
I have said, until I'm blue in the face, in the last thread, and others, going back years, that I take a behaviourist view of the events in Rotherham and elsewhere, that there may have been cultural antecedents, but the ballooning scale of the events was itself due to the de facto immunity from punishment afforded by the authorities, which allowed groups of men to indulge their worst fantasies in a consequence-free environment. I blame the (primarily white) authorities for this cruel dereliction of duty, and that is what we need a public enquiry to establish and root out. We cannot stop crime at source but we can punish it and deprive those responsible of their freedom, in order to deter others as much as anything else.
What happened to those girls is not any kind of laughing matter, and your posts on this have for me crossed from your usual harmless buffoonery to grotesque, callous insensitivity. So well done on that. 🐐
You are correct that the worst part of it is the willingness of people in authority to treat rape as less important than their ideology.
As Terry Pratchett puts it:
“Treating people as things, that’s what sin is …that’s where it begins.”
Could someone in her party send her the link? Or tell her about the Drew Review and Operation Stovewood by the NCA. Or the Jay report or what Dame Louise Casey has done?
Or remind her of what her fellow Cabinet Minister, Suellla Braverman, the Home Secretary to do in May 2023 when the final IICSA Report came out?
This is bandwagon jumping of the most tawdry kind instead of action - which she could have been asking for when she was an actual Cabinet Minister.
What magnificent results have these reports and enquiries produced?
The Drew Review was used to improve the approach of South Yorkshire Police.
Operation Stovewood: run by the NCA is the largest criminal enforcement investigation into non-family CSE. It has identified 1100 victims, has 50 investigations outstanding and has led to 36 convictions.
The Jay Report was used to improve services within Rotherham Council which was put into special measures. The council leader and head of children's services left.
It is something. By no means enough, of course.
But what actual use will yet another inquiry costing millions, reporting in a decade or so and telling us stuff we already know be? Because my suspicion is that this is not really about joining dots or understanding the manifold causes of male sexual violence - let alone taking effective action against it - but political point-scoring and a disguised fight about immigration, in which the needs of the victims - girls mostly - will largely be ignored.
Kemi is absolutely right to demand a full public enquiry. We quite rightly had one when postmasters' lives and livelihoods were ruined by public servants whose actions bordered on criminal. The victims of the grooming gangs deserve just as much justice, and the enablers of this abuse must be made to answer for their behaviour, and the causes brought into the open and eliminated from the public sphere.
This initiative is aligned to Kemi's long-held public stances on culture, and the stress she places on public bodies that don't work. It isn't just necessary, it feels authentic to her and what she stands for.
🙂↔️ you are clueless.
Kemi is in an official office, but the front page of today’s Daily Telegraph and Musk on X decides strategy and positions for her?
Then Kemi MUST lead at PMQs asking: how many beloved pets have been stolen and eaten by these outsiders to our country, for sure that hell is warmer than North Yorkshire today Bobby J will ask exactly this, at any moment.
This politics is developing just as awful for the Conservatives and their leader as could possibly have feared - ‘voting blocks’ on the marmite questions at the next General Election that favours Labour and Libdems mopping up seats from small % of votes from shrinking turnouts.
All Kemi’s questions at the next PMQs, at ALL PMQs this year, must flag to voters how an incoming government inherited a growing economy, that will now have absolutely no growth for the whole of 2025! leading to higher taxes and more borrowing to fill the expanding black hole.
Kemi should look to today’s FT front page, not the DT.
I think comparing the very real nightmare of gang-raped girls to rumours about Haitans eating pets is a bit rich for my blood to be honest, whether that was your intention or not.
There’s a goat gone missing around here, a much beloved family pet. Are you not thinking what we are all thinking about what’s happened to it? 🐐
It’s “that lot” over there - outsiders surging into our community, responsible for ALL the bad things, from no decent housing or dentists, to grooming gangs, and pets eaten.
If we tolerate this, our own families will be next.
Plus the fact Starmer was head of the criminal justice system, so any enquiry is really all about asking him why he failed us.
The intention is pointing out to everyone, you are a fellow traveller with fascism.
You don't deserve a response, but I shall give one just in case anyone gives a second thought to your thick-witted allegations.
I have said, until I'm blue in the face, in the last thread, and others, going back years, that I take a behaviourist view of the events in Rotherham and elsewhere, that there may have been cultural antecedents, but the ballooning scale of the events was itself due to the de facto immunity from punishment afforded by the authorities, which allowed groups of men to indulge their worst fantasies in a consequence-free environment. I blame the (primarily white) authorities for this cruel dereliction of duty, and that is what we need a public enquiry to establish and root out. We cannot stop crime at source but we can punish it and deprive those responsible of their freedom, in order to deter others as much as anything else.
What happened to those girls is not any kind of laughing matter, and your posts on this have for me crossed from your usual harmless buffoonery to grotesque, callous insensitivity. So well done on that. 🐐
You are correct that the worst part of it is the willingness of people in authority to treat rape as less important than their ideology.
As Terry Pratchett puts it:
“Treating people as things, that’s what sin is …that’s where it begins.”
I've never met anyone who's been anything other than horrified by rape.
But, for some reason, it's considered to be a 'private' crime.
I wish everyone was horrified by rape, but the MAGA crowd seem unbothered by it when the perpetrator is Donald Trump, Matt Gaetz, Pete Hegseth, etc.
Court Transcripts should be free and available on demand. I'm not surprised that they are not, but they really should be.
The court transcripts would be extensively redacted to prevent jigsaw identification of the witnesses and victims. That redaction would just add more fuel to the flames.
Another grey area in all this is that many of the people who stood by and did nothing (or the absolute minimum) are also likely the key witnesses that secured convictions. This kind of challenge to the court system could backfire if the meek are dissuaded from ever providing testimony lest they end up plastered all over twitter.
I think MaxPB challenged people to consider what they would do if they found themselves in the same situation - I'd like to think I would have been the brave whistleblower* who sacrificed everything to save these kids. But in reality, I'd have likely behaved like most people do: made a few noises, reported it to my superior, but out of fear for my career, and possibly my physical wellbeing, kept it at that. It's probably only in court where I would feel I had the necessary protections to finally make a difference.
* I have previously complained about a minor injustice that affected only a few people in a corporate setting. Miserable experience, do not recommend, but did make a small difference to those who were harmed.
Whatever you think about the rest of it, "let the one without sin thrown the first stone" is interesting advice.
After the spy chat I decided to put Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy on Netflix and remind myself of how good the best is. It's a shame they were never able to get Smiley's People filmed. Gary Oldman really is a brilliant spy. No one else has come close in recent times.
I'm sure you must be aware of the BBC series?
Recently released by BBC DVD on Blu Ray too.
I watched the BBC series on a flight to Cape Verde. It’s sublime.
I think the BBC TTSS is as good as it gets, but the BBC Smiley's People was a bit too arch and rambly. Legacy of Spies (Le Carre's last book with Smiley in it?) is my bath book (hardback, second-hand, can withstand bubbles and drops within reason) and it's really good. Like many other authors, Le Carre tried to tie together his strands in his last days. It usually doesn't work, but this time it did and LoS has the characters of The Spy Who Came In From The Cold and their children interact with the characters of TTSS via Peter Guillam, who contacts the now-elderly George Smiley at the end. It was post-Referendum and Le Carre gives Smiley a whacking big pro-Europe speech which, whilst plausible, does stick out.
I will watch Smileys People on my holiday flights in March. I remember little of it although I did like A Perfect Spy. Not the same characters but the BBC version was very good.
I can’t remember the last time I had a bath, seeing that comment .
I didn’t realise Le Carre was still writing as late as that too.
Yup. LoS was published in 2017: Le Carre was 86 and died three years later.
More details have just emerged from the Oxford case. It’s a relentless and harrowing cascade
I do not believe the government can avoid some kind of major reckoning
Why do you say that given it didn’t happen under their watch ?
It’s about to become a massive problem for hundreds of politicans and officials at local and national level, of all political persuasions and going back decades. Just as the Catholic Church had a reckoning…
Court Transcripts should be free and available on demand. I'm not surprised that they are not, but they really should be.
The court transcripts would be extensively redacted to prevent jigsaw identification of the witnesses and victims. That redaction would just add more fuel to the flames.
Another grey area in all this is that many of the people who stood by and did nothing (or the absolute minimum) are also likely the key witnesses that secured convictions. This kind of challenge to the court system could backfire if the meek are dissuaded from ever providing testimony lest they end up plastered all over twitter.
I think MaxPB challenged people to consider what they would do if they found themselves in the same situation - I'd like to think I would have been the brave whistleblower* who sacrificed everything to save these kids. But in reality, I'd have likely behaved like most people do: made a few noises, reported it to my superior, but out of fear for my career, and possibly my physical wellbeing, kept it at that. It's probably only in court where I would feel I had the necessary protections to finally make a difference.
* I have previously complained about a minor injustice that affected only a few people in a corporate setting. Miserable experience, do not recommend, but did make a small difference to those who were harmed.
I think that's a really brave and honest answer and as I said yesterday I accept that 99/100 people would have done the same. I'm a very, err, headstrong person and have previously whistle blown internally when I saw things going wrong, once leading to the letting go of a C-Level person after one of my direct reports came to me crying one day about being put in a very, very distressing situation and I forced the company to hand over our internal investigation to the police, though I don't think it went anywhere.
The issue I take with your position is that you're creating a no consequence environment for people "just following orders". In that scenario where is the incentive for them to report what they know or be brave? Where, indeed, is the ability to trade immunity from prosecution for them to speak up about bigger players who actually gave the orders all the way up the chain?
Court Transcripts should be free and available on demand. I'm not surprised that they are not, but they really should be.
The court transcripts would be extensively redacted to prevent jigsaw identification of the witnesses and victims. That redaction would just add more fuel to the flames.
Another grey area in all this is that many of the people who stood by and did nothing (or the absolute minimum) are also likely the key witnesses that secured convictions. This kind of challenge to the court system could backfire if the meek are dissuaded from ever providing testimony lest they end up plastered all over twitter.
I think MaxPB challenged people to consider what they would do if they found themselves in the same situation - I'd like to think I would have been the brave whistleblower* who sacrificed everything to save these kids. But in reality, I'd have likely behaved like most people do: made a few noises, reported it to my superior, but out of fear for my career, and possibly my physical wellbeing, kept it at that. It's probably only in court where I would feel I had the necessary protections to finally make a difference.
* I have previously complained about a minor injustice that affected only a few people in a corporate setting. Miserable experience, do not recommend, but did make a small difference to those who were harmed.
No mention of redactions - but there must be some, of course. Pretty sure if both the public gallery and the jury are in the room though, you would get it.
More details have just emerged from the Oxford case. It’s a relentless and harrowing cascade
I do not believe the government can avoid some kind of major reckoning
Why do you say that given it didn’t happen under their watch ?
It’s about to become a massive problem for hundreds of politicans and officials at local and national level, of all political persuasions and going back decades. Just as the Catholic Church had a reckoning…
Has the Catholic Church had a 'reckoning' on this issue? I really, really doubt it.
Wes Streeting urges households to turn their heating on this weekend
If true to form this could be the weekend the media concentrate on shivering pensioners !!!!
Well, yes.
I mean, you usually turn the heating on when it's cold.
Unless it's an Australian heating system and comes on in their winter, like my old school seemed to have.
How many people still have a hearing system that you turn on?
As opposed to setting the thermostat to 20 and forgetting about it.
20? Put a jumper on man!
Mrs Biggles would like you. I go for 17 and she raises it to 20. It oscillates through the day.
Mind you we do also have a coal fire as an affectation.
17? Wuss!
Mine's on 15.
(Admittedly that's because I'm in my office which is heated by a less than adequate electric radiator battling valiantly but unsuccessfully against the cold outside.)
I actually put a freezer in my house and leave the door open to lower the temperature to Minus 5C to show what a hero I am.
My wife has got very used to the down jackets and 8 season sleeping bags.
You would heat the house up that way, unless you stick the back of the freezer outside the house. AKA air conditioning.
Back when Slashdot mattered and I used to occasionally post there they offered the option of handle-less posing under the ‘Anonymous Coward’ label. Anon was the obvious community contraction for those users and it stuck in my head.
More details have just emerged from the Oxford case. It’s a relentless and harrowing cascade
I do not believe the government can avoid some kind of major reckoning
Why do you say that given it didn’t happen under their watch ?
It’s about to become a massive problem for hundreds of politicans and officials at local and national level, of all political persuasions and going back decades. Just as the Catholic Church had a reckoning…
Has the Catholic Church had a 'reckoning' on this issue? I really, really doubt it.
More details have just emerged from the Oxford case. It’s a relentless and harrowing cascade
I do not believe the government can avoid some kind of major reckoning
Why do you say that given it didn’t happen under their watch ?
It’s about to become a massive problem for hundreds of politicans and officials at local and national level, of all political persuasions and going back decades. Just as the Catholic Church had a reckoning…
Has the Catholic Church had a 'reckoning' on this issue? I really, really doubt it.
It has in Ireland. But it's very much country-by-country rather than the institution as a whole. And in Ireland, it was the secularization which drove the reckoning.
More details have just emerged from the Oxford case. It’s a relentless and harrowing cascade
I do not believe the government can avoid some kind of major reckoning
Why do you say that given it didn’t happen under their watch ?
It’s about to become a massive problem for hundreds of politicans and officials at local and national level, of all political persuasions and going back decades. Just as the Catholic Church had a reckoning…
Has the Catholic Church had a 'reckoning' on this issue? I really, really doubt it.
To the point where the Pope had to resign.
Is that officially the reason he resigned? Because if it is not official, it is not a 'reckoning'. It is just shifting someone inconvenient out of the way; another form of cover-up.
At least Welby, when he finally resigned, said why he resigned.
More details have just emerged from the Oxford case. It’s a relentless and harrowing cascade
I do not believe the government can avoid some kind of major reckoning
Why do you say that given it didn’t happen under their watch ?
Simply because it has exploded this last week. There’s no rhyme or reason to it. Why now? All I can see is the revelation of that one admittedly appalling detail - ISIS-style torture - in the Oxford grooming gang trial. That went viral
Then a few bigger accounts got involved. Charlie Peters of GBNews did a brilliant, coolly devastating tweet-thread that got 20 million views. And here we are
The online world is full of fury - at home and abroad - I’m not sure it can be ignored
After the spy chat I decided to put Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy on Netflix and remind myself of how good the best is. It's a shame they were never able to get Smiley's People filmed. Gary Oldman really is a brilliant spy. No one else has come close in recent times.
I'm sure you must be aware of the BBC series?
Recently released by BBC DVD on Blu Ray too.
I watched the BBC series on a flight to Cape Verde. It’s sublime.
I think the BBC TTSS is as good as it gets, but the BBC Smiley's People was a bit too arch and rambly. Legacy of Spies (Le Carre's last book with Smiley in it?) is my bath book (hardback, second-hand, can withstand bubbles and drops within reason) and it's really good. Like many other authors, Le Carre tried to tie together his strands in his last days. It usually doesn't work, but this time it did and LoS has the characters of The Spy Who Came In From The Cold and their children interact with the characters of TTSS via Peter Guillam, who contacts the now-elderly George Smiley at the end. It was post-Referendum and Le Carre gives Smiley a whacking big pro-Europe speech which, whilst plausible, does stick out.
I will watch Smileys People on my holiday flights in March. I remember little of it although I did like A Perfect Spy. Not the same characters but the BBC version was very good.
I can’t remember the last time I had a bath, seeing that comment .
I didn’t realise Le Carre was still writing as late as that too.
Yup. LoS was published in 2017: Le Carre was 86 and died three years later.
I thought there had already been a National Enquiry, under Braverman.
Maybe 5? Three on specific gangs, one on characteristics of such gangs, and a very large one on child sexual abuse more broadly https://www.iicsa.org.uk/index.html that has published 24 research reports, 19 investigation reports, 8 reports on engagement with victims, an interim report and an overall final report.
Court Transcripts should be free and available on demand. I'm not surprised that they are not, but they really should be.
The court transcripts would be extensively redacted to prevent jigsaw identification of the witnesses and victims. That redaction would just add more fuel to the flames.
Another grey area in all this is that many of the people who stood by and did nothing (or the absolute minimum) are also likely the key witnesses that secured convictions. This kind of challenge to the court system could backfire if the meek are dissuaded from ever providing testimony lest they end up plastered all over twitter.
I think MaxPB challenged people to consider what they would do if they found themselves in the same situation - I'd like to think I would have been the brave whistleblower* who sacrificed everything to save these kids. But in reality, I'd have likely behaved like most people do: made a few noises, reported it to my superior, but out of fear for my career, and possibly my physical wellbeing, kept it at that. It's probably only in court where I would feel I had the necessary protections to finally make a difference.
* I have previously complained about a minor injustice that affected only a few people in a corporate setting. Miserable experience, do not recommend, but did make a small difference to those who were harmed.
I think that's a really brave and honest answer and as I said yesterday I accept that 99/100 people would have done the same. I'm a very, err, headstrong person and have previously whistle blown internally when I saw things going wrong, once leading to the letting go of a C-Level person after one of my direct reports came to me crying one day about being put in a very, very distressing situation and I forced the company to hand over our internal investigation to the police, though I don't think it went anywhere.
The issue I take with your position is that you're creating a no consequence environment for people "just following orders". In that scenario where is the incentive for them to report what they know or be brave? Where, indeed, is the ability to trade immunity from prosecution for them to speak up about bigger players who actually gave the orders all the way up the chain?
Yes, and that's why I called it a grey area. I'm not sure how to deal with it.
You can understand why the "white working class social worker from Rotherham with the cute girlfriend" would not want to make a big fuss at the time, but you would want that same person to step forward in court without fear of legal (or social media) prosecution. Difficult.
But this it's not unique to this case. I attended court a few weeks ago and several of the witnesses had behaved very badly indeed themselves. I have no idea how the PFO/Sheriffs determine how to allocate "blame", and it must be even trickier for something like this. This is where we need PB lawyers to help us out.
I thought there had already been a National Enquiry, under Braverman.
Maybe 5? Three on specific gangs, one on characteristics of such gangs, and a very large one on child sexual abuse more broadly https://www.iicsa.org.uk/index.html that has published 24 research reports, 19 investigation reports, 8 reports on engagement with victims, an interim report and an overall final report.
All of which has resulted in how many public officials being prosecuted?
Iain Martin @iainmartin1 · 43m Farage claims on grooming scandal the mainstream media “did their best not to cover it.” That is rabble rousing and simply not true. The Times led with investigations. The Mail, Sun and Mirror and others were all over the story for years. The BBC ran documentaries in prime time.
Iain Martin @iainmartin1 · 43m Farage claims on grooming scandal the mainstream media “did their best not to cover it.” That is rabble rousing and simply not true. The Times led with investigations. The Mail, Sun and Mirror and others were all over the story for years. The BBC ran documentaries in prime time.
I thought there had already been a National Enquiry, under Braverman.
Maybe 5? Three on specific gangs, one on characteristics of such gangs, and a very large one on child sexual abuse more broadly https://www.iicsa.org.uk/index.html that has published 24 research reports, 19 investigation reports, 8 reports on engagement with victims, an interim report and an overall final report.
All of which has resulted in how many public officials being prosecuted?
Yes, that’s part of the anger. Where’s the reckoning? Where are the bent, lying, craven councillors, cops, bureaucrats, politicians doing time? Or even facing trial? Any? Any at all???
A new inquiry must have the power and obligation to send people to the CPS with a recommendation for trials
I thought there had already been a National Enquiry, under Braverman.
Maybe 5? Three on specific gangs, one on characteristics of such gangs, and a very large one on child sexual abuse more broadly https://www.iicsa.org.uk/index.html that has published 24 research reports, 19 investigation reports, 8 reports on engagement with victims, an interim report and an overall final report.
All of which has resulted in how many public officials being prosecuted?
I don't know for certain, but I would guess zero. Inquiries don't generally lead directly to prosecutions.
So, what would be the point of another national inquiry?
More details have just emerged from the Oxford case. It’s a relentless and harrowing cascade
I do not believe the government can avoid some kind of major reckoning
Why do you say that given it didn’t happen under their watch ?
It’s about to become a massive problem for hundreds of politicans and officials at local and national level, of all political persuasions and going back decades. Just as the Catholic Church had a reckoning…
Has the Catholic Church had a 'reckoning' on this issue? I really, really doubt it.
To the point where the Pope had to resign.
Is that officially the reason he resigned? Because if it is not official, it is not a 'reckoning'. It is just shifting someone inconvenient out of the way; another form of cover-up.
At least Welby, when he finally resigned, said why he resigned.
And Welby's resignation is a token "lessons will be learned" early retirement - classic Protect The Organisation.
Welby will take his pension and paid roles on various quangos, I'm quite sure.
Iain Martin @iainmartin1 · 43m Farage claims on grooming scandal the mainstream media “did their best not to cover it.” That is rabble rousing and simply not true. The Times led with investigations. The Mail, Sun and Mirror and others were all over the story for years. The BBC ran documentaries in prime time.
Iain Martin @iainmartin1 · 43m Farage claims on grooming scandal the mainstream media “did their best not to cover it.” That is rabble rousing and simply not true. The Times led with investigations. The Mail, Sun and Mirror and others were all over the story for years. The BBC ran documentaries in prime time.
Iain Martin @iainmartin1 · 43m Farage claims on grooming scandal the mainstream media “did their best not to cover it.” That is rabble rousing and simply not true. The Times led with investigations. The Mail, Sun and Mirror and others were all over the story for years. The BBC ran documentaries in prime time.
The BBC ran documentaries on the grooming gangs as well.
And what's the problem with “Liar: The Fake Grooming Scandal” as a documentary? Some here seem very concerned about false rape allegations. Here is a (rare) case where someone really did make false rape allegations.
Iain Martin @iainmartin1 · 43m Farage claims on grooming scandal the mainstream media “did their best not to cover it.” That is rabble rousing and simply not true. The Times led with investigations. The Mail, Sun and Mirror and others were all over the story for years. The BBC ran documentaries in prime time.
If the police and courts are to be believed, that set of grooming accusations did turn out to be fake, didn't they?
Indeed. She was found guilty at trial of perverting the course of justice. Her claims were repeatedly proven false. Read all about it at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_Williams_(criminal) Her case was one of the factors that led to the Online Safety Bill 2023 under the last government.
Court Transcripts should be free and available on demand. I'm not surprised that they are not, but they really should be.
The court transcripts would be extensively redacted to prevent jigsaw identification of the witnesses and victims. That redaction would just add more fuel to the flames.
Another grey area in all this is that many of the people who stood by and did nothing (or the absolute minimum) are also likely the key witnesses that secured convictions. This kind of challenge to the court system could backfire if the meek are dissuaded from ever providing testimony lest they end up plastered all over twitter.
I think MaxPB challenged people to consider what they would do if they found themselves in the same situation - I'd like to think I would have been the brave whistleblower* who sacrificed everything to save these kids. But in reality, I'd have likely behaved like most people do: made a few noises, reported it to my superior, but out of fear for my career, and possibly my physical wellbeing, kept it at that. It's probably only in court where I would feel I had the necessary protections to finally make a difference.
* I have previously complained about a minor injustice that affected only a few people in a corporate setting. Miserable experience, do not recommend, but did make a small difference to those who were harmed.
I think that's a really brave and honest answer and as I said yesterday I accept that 99/100 people would have done the same. I'm a very, err, headstrong person and have previously whistle blown internally when I saw things going wrong, once leading to the letting go of a C-Level person after one of my direct reports came to me crying one day about being put in a very, very distressing situation and I forced the company to hand over our internal investigation to the police, though I don't think it went anywhere.
The issue I take with your position is that you're creating a no consequence environment for people "just following orders". In that scenario where is the incentive for them to report what they know or be brave? Where, indeed, is the ability to trade immunity from prosecution for them to speak up about bigger players who actually gave the orders all the way up the chain?
Yes, and that's why I called it a grey area. I'm not sure how to deal with it.
You can understand why the "white working class social worker from Rotherham with the cute girlfriend" would not want to make a big fuss at the time, but you would want that same person to step forward in court without fear of legal (or social media) prosecution. Difficult.
But this it's not unique to this case. I attended court a few weeks ago and several of the witnesses had behaved very badly indeed themselves. I have no idea how the PFO/Sheriffs determine how to allocate "blame", and it must be even trickier for something like this. This is where we need PB lawyers to help us out.
On the issue of people not wanting to testify - if the letters that Blair was handing out to terrorists gave immunity, then we have the tested framework for immunity deals in the UK.
"Give evidence, or go on trial yourself".
Incidentally, in finance, there are a number of things where, if you see or suspect a crime and do nothing, that is an explicit crime itself.
I thought there had already been a National Enquiry, under Braverman.
Maybe 5? Three on specific gangs, one on characteristics of such gangs, and a very large one on child sexual abuse more broadly https://www.iicsa.org.uk/index.html that has published 24 research reports, 19 investigation reports, 8 reports on engagement with victims, an interim report and an overall final report.
All of which has resulted in how many public officials being prosecuted?
Yes, that’s part of the anger. Where’s the reckoning? Where are the bent, lying, craven councillors, cops, bureaucrats, politicians doing time? Or even facing trial? Any? Any at all???
A new inquiry must have the power and obligation to send people to the CPS with a recommendation for trials
I thought there had already been a National Enquiry, under Braverman.
Maybe 5? Three on specific gangs, one on characteristics of such gangs, and a very large one on child sexual abuse more broadly https://www.iicsa.org.uk/index.html that has published 24 research reports, 19 investigation reports, 8 reports on engagement with victims, an interim report and an overall final report.
All of which has resulted in how many public officials being prosecuted?
Yes, that’s part of the anger. Where’s the reckoning? Where are the bent, lying, craven councillors, cops, bureaucrats, politicians doing time? Or even facing trial? Any? Any at all???
A new inquiry must have the power and obligation to send people to the CPS with a recommendation for trials
More details have just emerged from the Oxford case. It’s a relentless and harrowing cascade
I do not believe the government can avoid some kind of major reckoning
Why do you say that given it didn’t happen under their watch ?
It’s about to become a massive problem for hundreds of politicans and officials at local and national level, of all political persuasions and going back decades. Just as the Catholic Church had a reckoning…
Has the Catholic Church had a 'reckoning' on this issue? I really, really doubt it.
It has in Ireland. But it's very much country-by-country rather than the institution as a whole. And in Ireland, it was the secularization which drove the reckoning.
Though the percentage of Irish who say they are Roman Catholic fell 10% to 69% in their 2022 census that is still almost 25% higher than the 46% in the UK who said they were Christian in the 2021 census here.
I thought there had already been a National Enquiry, under Braverman.
Maybe 5? Three on specific gangs, one on characteristics of such gangs, and a very large one on child sexual abuse more broadly https://www.iicsa.org.uk/index.html that has published 24 research reports, 19 investigation reports, 8 reports on engagement with victims, an interim report and an overall final report.
All of which has resulted in how many public officials being prosecuted?
Yes, that’s part of the anger. Where’s the reckoning? Where are the bent, lying, craven councillors, cops, bureaucrats, politicians doing time? Or even facing trial? Any? Any at all???
A new inquiry must have the power and obligation to send people to the CPS with a recommendation for trials
Some PBers were saying that a decade ago.
The likes of Cameron and May chose to do nothing.
Yes quite. This is nearly as much a Tory failing as Labour
Enough. Bring on a Real Reckoning. Let’s see people go to jail, not just the evil perpetrators, but the thousands of people that enabled them. The System
We're beginning to see the birth of a new folk tradition which I choose to call 'The Winter Institutional Torching Solstice (WITS)'. Every year after Christmas people find themselves with time on their hands so decide to pay attention to a grave injustice which they have ignored throughout the year as they are too busy with the mundanity of their daily lives. Last year's WITS was opened by ITV with it's TV drama 'Mr Bates vs the Post Office'. ITV were unavailable this year so Mr Elon Musk kindly stepped into the breach to select the subject of this year's torching.
Iain Martin @iainmartin1 · 43m Farage claims on grooming scandal the mainstream media “did their best not to cover it.” That is rabble rousing and simply not true. The Times led with investigations. The Mail, Sun and Mirror and others were all over the story for years. The BBC ran documentaries in prime time.
“Hopefully, what we will learn from Three Girls is that men who abuse girls and women get away with it because the girls are often seen as “troublesome slags”, and that when state agencies fail the victims of child abuse, the rapists are left to walk free.”
91-year-old Sen. Chuck Grassley, who has served in Congress for 50 years (House from 1975-1981, Senate from 1981-present) is sworn in as Senate president pro tempore. That puts him third in line to the presidency. https://x.com/sahilkapur/status/1875237972897099944
I thought there had already been a National Enquiry, under Braverman.
Maybe 5? Three on specific gangs, one on characteristics of such gangs, and a very large one on child sexual abuse more broadly https://www.iicsa.org.uk/index.html that has published 24 research reports, 19 investigation reports, 8 reports on engagement with victims, an interim report and an overall final report.
All of which has resulted in how many public officials being prosecuted?
Yes, that’s part of the anger. Where’s the reckoning? Where are the bent, lying, craven councillors, cops, bureaucrats, politicians doing time? Or even facing trial? Any? Any at all???
A new inquiry must have the power and obligation to send people to the CPS with a recommendation for trials
More than anything else, it needs to be, like the post office inquiry, televised and open to the public so the victims get a platform to say everything they need to say with no edits, no filters and no agendas from downstream reporting. That's what we need. I also think we probably need ITV (not the BBC who will absolutely fuck it up) to do dramatisation of the investigation by The Yorkshire Post, The Times and the attempts to cover it up and block those investigators and journalists from getting to the truth.
We're beginning to see the birth of a new folk tradition which I choose to call 'The Winter Institutional Torching Solstice (WITS)'. Every year after Christmas people find themselves with time on their hands so decide to pay attention to a grave injustice which they have ignored throughout the year as they are too busy with the mundanity of their daily lives. Last year's WITS was opened by ITV with it's TV drama 'Mr Bates vs the Post Office'. ITV were unavailable this year so Mr Elon Musk kindly stepped into the breach to select the subject of this year's torching.
ITV unavailable because they lost money on the Bates programme? Fair play to them they knew they would and did it anyway.
I thought there had already been a National Enquiry, under Braverman.
Maybe 5? Three on specific gangs, one on characteristics of such gangs, and a very large one on child sexual abuse more broadly https://www.iicsa.org.uk/index.html that has published 24 research reports, 19 investigation reports, 8 reports on engagement with victims, an interim report and an overall final report.
All of which has resulted in how many public officials being prosecuted?
I don't know for certain, but I would guess zero. Inquiries don't generally lead directly to prosecutions.
So, what would be the point of another national inquiry?
91-year-old Sen. Chuck Grassley, who has served in Congress for 50 years (House from 1975-1981, Senate from 1981-present) is sworn in as Senate president pro tempore. That puts him third in line to the presidency. https://x.com/sahilkapur/status/1875237972897099944
91-year-old Sen. Chuck Grassley, who has served in Congress for 50 years (House from 1975-1981, Senate from 1981-present) is sworn in as Senate president pro tempore. That puts him third in line to the presidency. https://x.com/sahilkapur/status/1875237972897099944
Seems young.
HMQ served as our unelected Head of State till after she was 96!
Musk is free to suggest a dissolution and the government is free to laugh in his face.
It’s gonna be hilarious if Musk and Ackmann convince Trump to slap sanctions on us for human rights failings re children and gangs
Very very dark, but not with humour
You really need to keep a lid on that "patriotism" of yours.
Yeah, it's amazing how so many people who screech about how much they love this country are happy to see Musk trash our reputation and interfere with our democracy.
Pathetic paper patriots.
Maybe we want to see the people who perpetrated the cover up of Muslim rape gangs get justice and that's more important than nationalism or patriotism? I love this country and yet this crime that was perpetrated and covered up shames the nation, the wilful blindness, the threats by the police against parents, the threats by councillors against whistle blowers it all needs to be aired in public for the world to see or we won't ever get past it. The longer it stays in the dark and festers the more trust in public life erodes and it's not exactly brilliant at the moment.
It's not enough that the rapists are seemingly finally being banged up, those who covered for them need to be banged up too and given exemplary sentences. They allowed these gangs to continue operating, they kept parents away from their children and left them to be tortured and raped on a daily basis. A rapist is going to rape and they should be put in prison to protect the public. A politician who turns a blind eye to it is a danger to society at large because they're aiding and abetting criminality at a large scale.
He's doing much more than that. He's attacking our elected government and trashing our country's reputation, and this is just his *latest* tool.
I'd also point out that he is, despite being an immigrant himself, rabidly anti-immigrant. Or the 'wrong' sort of immigrant. You may want to consider when the anti-immigration feelings he is broadcasting will start affecting *your* community, and not just Muslims.
Because after they come for my wife (who is an immigrant from a Muslim country), they may start coming after other immigrants. That's the way racists work.
Is the government so weak it can't stand a bit of scrutiny? The Tory government endured much worse for 14 years.
I don't think you understand just how sickening the rape gangs were and the kind of attitude that still pervades among authorities that covered for them. The reason I want a full public inquiry that airs all of the dirty laundry is so that those far right conspiracy theorists are no longer able to use it as a political tool for their ends. If we have the inquiry, start prosecuting the people responsible for the coverups, put measures in place to never allow it to happen again, pay millions in compensation to the victims, let the whistle blowers go public and tell their stories, give the victims their say unimpeded and unadulterated. Don't let anyone off the hook and chase it as high as it goes, even if it implicates multiple home/justice secretaries who also turned a blind eye from the Labour and Tory governments.
This can never be allowed to happen again and frankly your concern over "but the immigrants might feel unsafe if it's made public" is exactly what has caused this all in the first place.
I can’t disagree.
Far too many of our ruling class are willing collaborators with evil.
91-year-old Sen. Chuck Grassley, who has served in Congress for 50 years (House from 1975-1981, Senate from 1981-present) is sworn in as Senate president pro tempore. That puts him third in line to the presidency. https://x.com/sahilkapur/status/1875237972897099944
Only third oldest this century after KKK Byrd (93) and Strom Dixiecrat (99).
Love the sight of a 17-year-old getting a £500k cheque and a massive trophy.
Well done Luke Littler, World Champion of darts.
His face when they announced the prize money was class too. Wide eyes 😂
Darts rankings based entirely on money. Won at ranking tournaments over 24 months. He is now world number 2 despite only having won his first ranking cash 12 months ago in last year’s world championship.
It’s unreal. Add on the non-ranking prize money and he’s taken £1.5m in 12 months. Aged 17.
91-year-old Sen. Chuck Grassley, who has served in Congress for 50 years (House from 1975-1981, Senate from 1981-present) is sworn in as Senate president pro tempore. That puts him third in line to the presidency. https://x.com/sahilkapur/status/1875237972897099944
Only third oldest this century after KKK Byrd (93) and Strom Dixiecrat (99).
If the House hadn't come up with a Speaker - which was on a knife-edge - he could have been president ahead of Trump.
Love the sight of a 17-year-old getting a £500k cheque and a massive trophy.
Well done Luke Littler, World Champion of darts.
His face when they announced the prize money was class too. Wide eyes 😂
Darts rankings based entirely on money. Won at ranking tournaments over 24 months. He is now world number 2 despite only having won his first ranking cash 12 months ago in last year’s world championship.
It’s unreal. Add on the non-ranking prize money and he’s taken £1.3m in 12 months. Aged 17.
Love the sight of a 17-year-old getting a £500k cheque and a massive trophy.
Well done Luke Littler, World Champion of darts.
His face when they announced the prize money was class too. Wide eyes 😂
He’s already set for life, he’s earned £2m in prize money aged 17. Put that in ISAs and S&P trackers and he’s making six figures a year in interest.
Also he will get more money from endorsements and is guaranteed paydays in the Premier League.
It’s a shame they go from the world championship to a glorified Exhibtion competition only a few play in with no ranking points available. Feels like it loses something. Especially as the format has been poor.
Small “the same stuff happens over there as here” anecdote from France (well, Germany).
I was speaking to a chap in his 30s, grew up in this Burgundy village with his German mother but has been working back in the homeland the last few years. His job: doing bat surveys around Stuttgart when there’s a planning application.
I’ve just recalled that Trump swore to “come after Starmer”
This is going to get worse
It's payback for the Labour activists helping Kamala. I think Trump realises how weak Starmer is and how easy it will be to bully him into doing things.
Musk is free to suggest a dissolution and the government is free to laugh in his face.
It’s gonna be hilarious if Musk and Ackmann convince Trump to slap sanctions on us for human rights failings re children and gangs
Very very dark, but not with humour
You really need to keep a lid on that "patriotism" of yours.
Yeah, it's amazing how so many people who screech about how much they love this country are happy to see Musk trash our reputation and interfere with our democracy.
Pathetic paper patriots.
Maybe we want to see the people who perpetrated the cover up of Muslim rape gangs get justice and that's more important than nationalism or patriotism? I love this country and yet this crime that was perpetrated and covered up shames the nation, the wilful blindness, the threats by the police against parents, the threats by councillors against whistle blowers it all needs to be aired in public for the world to see or we won't ever get past it. The longer it stays in the dark and festers the more trust in public life erodes and it's not exactly brilliant at the moment.
It's not enough that the rapists are seemingly finally being banged up, those who covered for them need to be banged up too and given exemplary sentences. They allowed these gangs to continue operating, they kept parents away from their children and left them to be tortured and raped on a daily basis. A rapist is going to rape and they should be put in prison to protect the public. A politician who turns a blind eye to it is a danger to society at large because they're aiding and abetting criminality at a large scale.
He's doing much more than that. He's attacking our elected government and trashing our country's reputation, and this is just his *latest* tool.
I'd also point out that he is, despite being an immigrant himself, rabidly anti-immigrant. Or the 'wrong' sort of immigrant. You may want to consider when the anti-immigration feelings he is broadcasting will start affecting *your* community, and not just Muslims.
Because after they come for my wife (who is an immigrant from a Muslim country), they may start coming after other immigrants. That's the way racists work.
Is the government so weak it can't stand a bit of scrutiny? The Tory government endured much worse for 14 years.
I don't think you understand just how sickening the rape gangs were and the kind of attitude that still pervades among authorities that covered for them. The reason I want a full public inquiry that airs all of the dirty laundry is so that those far right conspiracy theorists are no longer able to use it as a political tool for their ends. If we have the inquiry, start prosecuting the people responsible for the coverups, put measures in place to never allow it to happen again, pay millions in compensation to the victims, let the whistle blowers go public and tell their stories, give the victims their say unimpeded and unadulterated. Don't let anyone off the hook and chase it as high as it goes, even if it implicates multiple home/justice secretaries who also turned a blind eye from the Labour and Tory governments.
This can never be allowed to happen again and frankly your concern over "but the immigrants might feel unsafe if it's made public" is exactly what has caused this all in the first place.
I can’t disagree.
Far too many of our ruling class are willing collaborators with evil.
I agree it's a shame the Tories hid this for 14 years
Could someone in her party send her the link? Or tell her about the Drew Review and Operation Stovewood by the NCA. Or the Jay report or what Dame Louise Casey has done?
Or remind her of what her fellow Cabinet Minister, Suellla Braverman, the Home Secretary to do in May 2023 when the final IICSA Report came out?
This is bandwagon jumping of the most tawdry kind instead of action - which she could have been asking for when she was an actual Cabinet Minister.
What magnificent results have these reports and enquiries produced?
The Drew Review was used to improve the approach of South Yorkshire Police.
Operation Stovewood: run by the NCA is the largest criminal enforcement investigation into non-family CSE. It has identified 1100 victims, has 50 investigations outstanding and has led to 36 convictions.
The Jay Report was used to improve services within Rotherham Council which was put into special measures. The council leader and head of children's services left.
It is something. By no means enough, of course.
But what actual use will yet another inquiry costing millions, reporting in a decade or so and telling us stuff we already know be? Because my suspicion is that this is not really about joining dots or understanding the manifold causes of male sexual violence - let alone taking effective action against it - but political point-scoring and a disguised fight about immigration, in which the needs of the victims - girls mostly - will largely be ignored.
Kemi is absolutely right to demand a full public enquiry. We quite rightly had one when postmasters' lives and livelihoods were ruined by public servants whose actions bordered on criminal. The victims of the grooming gangs deserve just as much justice, and the enablers of this abuse must be made to answer for their behaviour, and the causes brought into the open and eliminated from the public sphere.
This initiative is aligned to Kemi's long-held public stances on culture, and the stress she places on public bodies that don't work. It isn't just necessary, it feels authentic to her and what she stands for.
🙂↔️ you are clueless.
Kemi is in an official office, but the front page of today’s Daily Telegraph and Musk on X decides strategy and positions for her?
Then Kemi MUST lead at PMQs asking: how many beloved pets have been stolen and eaten by these outsiders to our country, for sure that hell is warmer than North Yorkshire today Bobby J will ask exactly this, at any moment.
This politics is developing just as awful for the Conservatives and their leader as could possibly have feared - ‘voting blocks’ on the marmite questions at the next General Election that favours Labour and Libdems mopping up seats from small % of votes from shrinking turnouts.
All Kemi’s questions at the next PMQs, at ALL PMQs this year, must flag to voters how an incoming government inherited a growing economy, that will now have absolutely no growth for the whole of 2025! leading to higher taxes and more borrowing to fill the expanding black hole.
Kemi should look to today’s FT front page, not the DT.
I think comparing the very real nightmare of gang-raped girls to rumours about Haitans eating pets is a bit rich for my blood to be honest, whether that was your intention or not.
There’s a goat gone missing around here, a much beloved family pet. Are you not thinking what we are all thinking about what’s happened to it? 🐐
It’s “that lot” over there - outsiders surging into our community, responsible for ALL the bad things, from no decent housing or dentists, to grooming gangs, and pets eaten.
If we tolerate this, our own families will be next.
Plus the fact Starmer was head of the criminal justice system, so any enquiry is really all about asking him why he failed us.
The intention is pointing out to everyone, you are a fellow traveller with fascism.
You don't deserve a response, but I shall give one just in case anyone gives a second thought to your thick-witted allegations.
I have said, until I'm blue in the face, in the last thread, and others, going back years, that I take a behaviourist view of the events in Rotherham and elsewhere, that there may have been cultural antecedents, but the ballooning scale of the events was itself due to the de facto immunity from punishment afforded by the authorities, which allowed groups of men to indulge their worst fantasies in a consequence-free environment. I blame the (primarily white) authorities for this cruel dereliction of duty, and that is what we need a public enquiry to establish and root out. We cannot stop crime at source but we can punish it and deprive those responsible of their freedom, in order to deter others as much as anything else.
What happened to those girls is not any kind of laughing matter, and your posts on this have for me crossed from your usual harmless buffoonery to grotesque, callous insensitivity. So well done on that. 🐐
“your posts on this have for me crossed from your usual harmless buffoonery to grotesque, callous insensitivity”
Nope. It’s YOU and your posts I’m satirising. To wake you up, so you can understand what you actually sound like to the rest of us - you sound just like Elon Musk - and prove how utterly wrong your position is on this.
For the grooming gangs horror to be used as an opportunist political football, as you are pushing all day, that would be the pinnacle of betrayal to all the victims, that would be the callous insensitivity, and certainly the wrong way for UK politics to go.
At heart of the issue, and only outcome that could make a difference for victims to now and the future, was a culture where the gangs were not pursued, because it was believed the victims would be not be strong enough witnesses. Thank goodness Nazi Afzal came along when he did, and turned that on its head, pity he didn’t get his position of power to make a difference earlier.
What did Nazi Afzal change? He started prosecuting the gangs for their crimes, and changed the understanding and culture towards grooming. All people in power, political and otherwise, at every level, were wedded to the previous culture of “the police pick up someone at a place they have been raped, take them elsewhere where they should be safe, a week later they are back at other place under their own decision, it’s pointless bringing it as it won’t stand up in court.”
So I am opposed to you, Lucky Guy, turning this fact into a political football. The reverse of what you are pushing is what is needed, all serious politicians to tread carefully and thoughtfully and to unite behind the new culture and approach, not just to grooming gangs, but where all crimes against people not getting convictions or charges brought, because rotten culture still exists that’s not understanding of grooming or trusting victim testimony.
Look at your posts today. Shame on you. You’ve got suckered by Musk and fellow fascists into a muddled mess. And you are not alone in that.
"Tony @EvacTony I would be glad to assist any national enquiry in the grooming/rape gangs
Let me be clear although I didn't have any direct involvement with grooming gangs, I did come across victims of them from time to time, mostly they were mispers (missing persons) I raised and asked questions as to why these missing girls kept having links to Muslim men/addresses, I was shut down, when all this started emerging the force I worked for "looked into" any possible similar on us, I sent everything I had been involved with and my concerns to the team looking at it but was told nothing was found. You constantly had the racism accusation chucked around if you raised this issue. Eventually I lost all faith in the police as an organisation for this and other reasons I left."
I’ve just recalled that Trump swore to “come after Starmer”
This is going to get worse
It's payback for the Labour activists helping Kamala. I think Trump realises how weak Starmer is and how easy it will be to bully him into doing things.
We're beginning to see the birth of a new folk tradition which I choose to call 'The Winter Institutional Torching Solstice (WITS)'. Every year after Christmas people find themselves with time on their hands so decide to pay attention to a grave injustice which they have ignored throughout the year as they are too busy with the mundanity of their daily lives. Last year's WITS was opened by ITV with it's TV drama 'Mr Bates vs the Post Office'. ITV were unavailable this year so Mr Elon Musk kindly stepped into the breach to select the subject of this year's torching.
ITV unavailable because they lost money on the Bates programme? Fair play to them they knew they would and did it anyway.
There’s plenty of evidence on Twitter from the last couple of weeks that Americans are starting to watch the darts, and especially love the live atmosphere.
I thought there had already been a National Enquiry, under Braverman.
Maybe 5? Three on specific gangs, one on characteristics of such gangs, and a very large one on child sexual abuse more broadly https://www.iicsa.org.uk/index.html that has published 24 research reports, 19 investigation reports, 8 reports on engagement with victims, an interim report and an overall final report.
All of which has resulted in how many public officials being prosecuted?
Yes, that’s part of the anger. Where’s the reckoning? Where are the bent, lying, craven councillors, cops, bureaucrats, politicians doing time? Or even facing trial? Any? Any at all???
A new inquiry must have the power and obligation to send people to the CPS with a recommendation for trials
Some PBers were saying that a decade ago.
The likes of Cameron and May chose to do nothing.
Why because the likes of Leon Brittin had prowled the corridors of Westminster and had to be hidden
Musk is free to suggest a dissolution and the government is free to laugh in his face.
It’s gonna be hilarious if Musk and Ackmann convince Trump to slap sanctions on us for human rights failings re children and gangs
Very very dark, but not with humour
You really need to keep a lid on that "patriotism" of yours.
Yeah, it's amazing how so many people who screech about how much they love this country are happy to see Musk trash our reputation and interfere with our democracy.
Pathetic paper patriots.
Maybe we want to see the people who perpetrated the cover up of Muslim rape gangs get justice and that's more important than nationalism or patriotism? I love this country and yet this crime that was perpetrated and covered up shames the nation, the wilful blindness, the threats by the police against parents, the threats by councillors against whistle blowers it all needs to be aired in public for the world to see or we won't ever get past it. The longer it stays in the dark and festers the more trust in public life erodes and it's not exactly brilliant at the moment.
It's not enough that the rapists are seemingly finally being banged up, those who covered for them need to be banged up too and given exemplary sentences. They allowed these gangs to continue operating, they kept parents away from their children and left them to be tortured and raped on a daily basis. A rapist is going to rape and they should be put in prison to protect the public. A politician who turns a blind eye to it is a danger to society at large because they're aiding and abetting criminality at a large scale.
He's doing much more than that. He's attacking our elected government and trashing our country's reputation, and this is just his *latest* tool.
I'd also point out that he is, despite being an immigrant himself, rabidly anti-immigrant. Or the 'wrong' sort of immigrant. You may want to consider when the anti-immigration feelings he is broadcasting will start affecting *your* community, and not just Muslims.
Because after they come for my wife (who is an immigrant from a Muslim country), they may start coming after other immigrants. That's the way racists work.
Is the government so weak it can't stand a bit of scrutiny? The Tory government endured much worse for 14 years.
I don't think you understand just how sickening the rape gangs were and the kind of attitude that still pervades among authorities that covered for them. The reason I want a full public inquiry that airs all of the dirty laundry is so that those far right conspiracy theorists are no longer able to use it as a political tool for their ends. If we have the inquiry, start prosecuting the people responsible for the coverups, put measures in place to never allow it to happen again, pay millions in compensation to the victims, let the whistle blowers go public and tell their stories, give the victims their say unimpeded and unadulterated. Don't let anyone off the hook and chase it as high as it goes, even if it implicates multiple home/justice secretaries who also turned a blind eye from the Labour and Tory governments.
This can never be allowed to happen again and frankly your concern over "but the immigrants might feel unsafe if it's made public" is exactly what has caused this all in the first place.
I can’t disagree.
Far too many of our ruling class are willing collaborators with evil.
I agree it's a shame the Tories hid this for 14 years
It isn’t a party political issue, there’s hundreds of thousands of victims here, and thousands of people of all parties who enabled them.
Love the sight of a 17-year-old getting a £500k cheque and a massive trophy.
Well done Luke Littler, World Champion of darts.
His face when they announced the prize money was class too. Wide eyes 😂
He’s already set for life, he’s earned £2m in prize money aged 17. Put that in ISAs and S&P trackers and he’s making six figures a year in interest.
Also he will get more money from endorsements and is guaranteed paydays in the Premier League.
It’s a shame they go from the world championship to a glorified Exhibtion competition only a few play in with no ranking points available. Feels like it loses something. Especially as the format has been poor.
I guess that once he turns 18, he’ll then be allowed a drink sponsor and a casino sponsor?
Could someone in her party send her the link? Or tell her about the Drew Review and Operation Stovewood by the NCA. Or the Jay report or what Dame Louise Casey has done?
Or remind her of what her fellow Cabinet Minister, Suellla Braverman, the Home Secretary to do in May 2023 when the final IICSA Report came out?
This is bandwagon jumping of the most tawdry kind instead of action - which she could have been asking for when she was an actual Cabinet Minister.
What magnificent results have these reports and enquiries produced?
The Drew Review was used to improve the approach of South Yorkshire Police.
Operation Stovewood: run by the NCA is the largest criminal enforcement investigation into non-family CSE. It has identified 1100 victims, has 50 investigations outstanding and has led to 36 convictions.
The Jay Report was used to improve services within Rotherham Council which was put into special measures. The council leader and head of children's services left.
It is something. By no means enough, of course.
But what actual use will yet another inquiry costing millions, reporting in a decade or so and telling us stuff we already know be? Because my suspicion is that this is not really about joining dots or understanding the manifold causes of male sexual violence - let alone taking effective action against it - but political point-scoring and a disguised fight about immigration, in which the needs of the victims - girls mostly - will largely be ignored.
Kemi is absolutely right to demand a full public enquiry. We quite rightly had one when postmasters' lives and livelihoods were ruined by public servants whose actions bordered on criminal. The victims of the grooming gangs deserve just as much justice, and the enablers of this abuse must be made to answer for their behaviour, and the causes brought into the open and eliminated from the public sphere.
This initiative is aligned to Kemi's long-held public stances on culture, and the stress she places on public bodies that don't work. It isn't just necessary, it feels authentic to her and what she stands for.
🙂↔️ you are clueless.
Kemi is in an official office, but the front page of today’s Daily Telegraph and Musk on X decides strategy and positions for her?
Then Kemi MUST lead at PMQs asking: how many beloved pets have been stolen and eaten by these outsiders to our country, for sure that hell is warmer than North Yorkshire today Bobby J will ask exactly this, at any moment.
This politics is developing just as awful for the Conservatives and their leader as could possibly have feared - ‘voting blocks’ on the marmite questions at the next General Election that favours Labour and Libdems mopping up seats from small % of votes from shrinking turnouts.
All Kemi’s questions at the next PMQs, at ALL PMQs this year, must flag to voters how an incoming government inherited a growing economy, that will now have absolutely no growth for the whole of 2025! leading to higher taxes and more borrowing to fill the expanding black hole.
Kemi should look to today’s FT front page, not the DT.
I think comparing the very real nightmare of gang-raped girls to rumours about Haitans eating pets is a bit rich for my blood to be honest, whether that was your intention or not.
There’s a goat gone missing around here, a much beloved family pet. Are you not thinking what we are all thinking about what’s happened to it? 🐐
It’s “that lot” over there - outsiders surging into our community, responsible for ALL the bad things, from no decent housing or dentists, to grooming gangs, and pets eaten.
If we tolerate this, our own families will be next.
Plus the fact Starmer was head of the criminal justice system, so any enquiry is really all about asking him why he failed us.
The intention is pointing out to everyone, you are a fellow traveller with fascism.
You don't deserve a response, but I shall give one just in case anyone gives a second thought to your thick-witted allegations.
I have said, until I'm blue in the face, in the last thread, and others, going back years, that I take a behaviourist view of the events in Rotherham and elsewhere, that there may have been cultural antecedents, but the ballooning scale of the events was itself due to the de facto immunity from punishment afforded by the authorities, which allowed groups of men to indulge their worst fantasies in a consequence-free environment. I blame the (primarily white) authorities for this cruel dereliction of duty, and that is what we need a public enquiry to establish and root out. We cannot stop crime at source but we can punish it and deprive those responsible of their freedom, in order to deter others as much as anything else.
What happened to those girls is not any kind of laughing matter, and your posts on this have for me crossed from your usual harmless buffoonery to grotesque, callous insensitivity. So well done on that. 🐐
“your posts on this have for me crossed from your usual harmless buffoonery to grotesque, callous insensitivity”
Nope. It’s YOU and your posts I’m satirising. To wake you up, so you can understand what you actually sound like to the rest of us - you sound just like Elon Musk - and prove how utterly wrong your position is on this.
For the grooming gangs horror to be used as an opportunist political football, as you are pushing all day, that would be the pinnacle of betrayal to all the victims, that would be the callous insensitivity, and certainly the wrong way for UK politics to go.
At heart of the issue, and only outcome that could make a difference for victims to now and the future, was a culture where the gangs were not pursued, because it was believed the victims would be not be strong enough witnesses. Thank goodness Nazi Afzal came along when he did, and turned that on its head, pity he didn’t get his position of power to make a difference earlier.
What did Nazi Afzal change? He started prosecuting the gangs for their crimes, and changed the understanding and culture towards grooming. All people in power, political and otherwise, at every level, were wedded to the previous culture of “the police pick up someone at a place they have been raped, take them elsewhere where they should be safe, a week later they are back at other place under their own decision, it’s pointless bringing it as it won’t stand up in court.”
So I am opposed to you, Lucky Guy, turning this fact into a political football. The reverse of what you are pushing is what is needed, all serious politicians to tread carefully and thoughtfully and to unite behind the new culture and approach, not just to grooming gangs, but where all crimes against people not getting convictions or charges brought, because rotten culture still exists that’s not understanding of grooming or trusting victim testimony.
Look at your posts today. Shame on you. You’ve got suckered by Musk and fellow fascists into a muddled mess. And you are not alone in that.
Er, darling, I don’t think his name is “Nazi” Afzal
I’ve just recalled that Trump swore to “come after Starmer”
This is going to get worse
It's payback for the Labour activists helping Kamala. I think Trump realises how weak Starmer is and how easy it will be to bully him into doing things.
You sound almost happy about it.
We need to start ramping up defence spending.
Anything that hurts Labour is fine with me. Starmer and Reeves are making the country poorer and destroying family run businesses and farms with punitive taxes. I think it was the farm tax that was the last straw for me, I very much believe in the idea of farm to fork and Labour dismantling the family run farm seriously sets that back and all it will do is increase air miles on our food as smaller producers go bankrupt or sell out to big American agribusiness. I think from that moment I went from ambivalent to actively wanting Labour out, they are doing generational damage to our nation.
Musk is free to suggest a dissolution and the government is free to laugh in his face.
It’s gonna be hilarious if Musk and Ackmann convince Trump to slap sanctions on us for human rights failings re children and gangs
Very very dark, but not with humour
You really need to keep a lid on that "patriotism" of yours.
Yeah, it's amazing how so many people who screech about how much they love this country are happy to see Musk trash our reputation and interfere with our democracy.
Pathetic paper patriots.
Maybe we want to see the people who perpetrated the cover up of Muslim rape gangs get justice and that's more important than nationalism or patriotism? I love this country and yet this crime that was perpetrated and covered up shames the nation, the wilful blindness, the threats by the police against parents, the threats by councillors against whistle blowers it all needs to be aired in public for the world to see or we won't ever get past it. The longer it stays in the dark and festers the more trust in public life erodes and it's not exactly brilliant at the moment.
It's not enough that the rapists are seemingly finally being banged up, those who covered for them need to be banged up too and given exemplary sentences. They allowed these gangs to continue operating, they kept parents away from their children and left them to be tortured and raped on a daily basis. A rapist is going to rape and they should be put in prison to protect the public. A politician who turns a blind eye to it is a danger to society at large because they're aiding and abetting criminality at a large scale.
He's doing much more than that. He's attacking our elected government and trashing our country's reputation, and this is just his *latest* tool.
I'd also point out that he is, despite being an immigrant himself, rabidly anti-immigrant. Or the 'wrong' sort of immigrant. You may want to consider when the anti-immigration feelings he is broadcasting will start affecting *your* community, and not just Muslims.
Because after they come for my wife (who is an immigrant from a Muslim country), they may start coming after other immigrants. That's the way racists work.
Is the government so weak it can't stand a bit of scrutiny? The Tory government endured much worse for 14 years.
I don't think you understand just how sickening the rape gangs were and the kind of attitude that still pervades among authorities that covered for them. The reason I want a full public inquiry that airs all of the dirty laundry is so that those far right conspiracy theorists are no longer able to use it as a political tool for their ends. If we have the inquiry, start prosecuting the people responsible for the coverups, put measures in place to never allow it to happen again, pay millions in compensation to the victims, let the whistle blowers go public and tell their stories, give the victims their say unimpeded and unadulterated. Don't let anyone off the hook and chase it as high as it goes, even if it implicates multiple home/justice secretaries who also turned a blind eye from the Labour and Tory governments.
This can never be allowed to happen again and frankly your concern over "but the immigrants might feel unsafe if it's made public" is exactly what has caused this all in the first place.
I can’t disagree.
Far too many of our ruling class are willing collaborators with evil.
I agree it's a shame the Tories hid this for 14 years
It isn’t a party political issue, there’s hundreds of thousands of victims here, and thousands of people of all parties who enabled them.
Tories: let’s nail this on Labour. It’s a party political issue Tories: there should have been a public enquiry, why won’t Labour grant it Facts: the Tories blocked the public enquiry, here’s the evidence Tories: it isn’t a party political issue
Love the sight of a 17-year-old getting a £500k cheque and a massive trophy.
Well done Luke Littler, World Champion of darts.
His face when they announced the prize money was class too. Wide eyes 😂
Darts rankings based entirely on money. Won at ranking tournaments over 24 months. He is now world number 2 despite only having won his first ranking cash 12 months ago in last year’s world championship.
It’s unreal. Add on the non-ranking prize money and he’s taken £1.5m in 12 months. Aged 17.
He now has two world championships under his belt and with the OOM give it’s a 2 year rolling cycle any ranking wins he has simply adds to it as he’s not defending any money until the next worlds.
One player even won enough cash this tournament to save his tour card.
Michael Smith will have tumbled down the rankings as he lost early doors and was defending £500K from two years ago.
I’ll be following Q School shortly. See if Beau Greaves gets a card.
There’s plenty of evidence on Twitter from the last couple of weeks that Americans are starting to watch the darts, and especially love the live atmosphere.
They want to take the Worlds to Saudi Arabia. As long as they can come to an agreement on alcohol, of course.
Comments
How many victims since then?
I do not believe the government can avoid some kind of major reckoning
LAB: 278 (-133)
CON: 157 (+36)
RFM: 120 (+115)
LDM: 47 (-25)
SNP: 24 (+15)
GRN: 3 (-1)
PLC: 2 (-2)
INDs: 0 (-5)
Via
@stonehaven_uk, Dec 2024.
Changes w/ GE2024.
https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1875203044348223931
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b04xvygv/smileys-people
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b006ylbp/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy
Edge of Darkness (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001j61n) is sadly not available on iPlayer, but is on Dailymotion, thus:
Episodes
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x88zlb8
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8918w9
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x892f38
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3hqsj4
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x894tid
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8965u1
Generated playlist
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3hhwp4?playlist=x7uuty
Enjoy, my children, enjoy...
The issue I take with your position is that you're creating a no consequence environment for people "just following orders". In that scenario where is the incentive for them to report what they know or be brave? Where, indeed, is the ability to trade immunity from prosecution for them to speak up about bigger players who actually gave the orders all the way up the chain?
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/order-a-transcript-of-court-or-tribunal-proceedings-form-ex107/guidance-for-requesting-a-transcript
No mention of redactions - but there must be some, of course. Pretty sure if both the public gallery and the jury are in the room though, you would get it.
https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1875262276930093247
(usual caveats apply. No gore on show.)
At least Welby, when he finally resigned, said why he resigned.
Then a few bigger accounts got involved. Charlie Peters of GBNews did a brilliant, coolly devastating tweet-thread that got 20 million views. And here we are
The online world is full of fury - at home and abroad - I’m not sure it can be ignored
Read between the lines of a Jerry Grogan speech, you'll find not the frontiersman but the Teutonic knight. Not democracy but a despotism. This future nuclear state will be an absolute state whose authority will derive not from the people but from the possession of plutonium. And just to make sure we all know what we're talking about here, I brought some of the stuff along with me today.
Two bars of weapons-grade plutonium.
I stole this stuff on orders, straight out of Jerry's latest acquisition. Twenty-four people have died for this stuff, including me. All I have to do is bring these bars together and we'll have a criticality. 400 rads, ladies and gentlemen. A lethal dose to anyone within ten yards. Get it while it's hot!
Hey, don't y'all want to be part of the new age of plutonium lunacy? Don't you want to see mankind become enslaved to this new priesthood of plutonium culture, see the earth become a desert, all its natural resources plundered to build some new Jerusalem in the Milky Way?
You can understand why the "white working class social worker from Rotherham with the cute girlfriend" would not want to make a big fuss at the time, but you would want that same person to step forward in court without fear of legal (or social media) prosecution. Difficult.
But this it's not unique to this case. I attended court a few weeks ago and several of the witnesses had behaved very badly indeed themselves. I have no idea how the PFO/Sheriffs determine how to allocate "blame", and it must be even trickier for something like this. This is where we need PB lawyers to help us out.
Iain Martin
@iainmartin1
·
43m
Farage claims on grooming scandal the mainstream media “did their best not to cover it.” That is rabble rousing and simply not true. The Times led with investigations. The Mail, Sun and Mirror and others were all over the story for years. The BBC ran documentaries in prime time.
https://x.com/iainmartin1/status/1875283059203072121
Touching really how some still cling to truth and reality.
A new inquiry must have the power and obligation to send people to the CPS with a recommendation for trials
So, what would be the point of another national inquiry?
Welby will take his pension and paid roles on various quangos, I'm quite sure.
A- is for agenda
B- is for bored
C- is for cocksure
D- duh, I’ve read the reports and I know it was a cover up. ( for fairness )
“Liar: The Fake Grooming Scandal”
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31014439/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001vfd7
So ... No.
He’s probably already maxed out his SIPP and ISA allowance.
And what's the problem with “Liar: The Fake Grooming Scandal” as a documentary? Some here seem very concerned about false rape allegations. Here is a (rare) case where someone really did make false rape allegations.
More FAKE NEWS from @TheScreamingEagles!
The government's current working majority is 163:
https://members.parliament.uk/parties/commons
"Give evidence, or go on trial yourself".
Incidentally, in finance, there are a number of things where, if you see or suspect a crime and do nothing, that is an explicit crime itself.
The likes of Cameron and May chose to do nothing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHnBppccI0o
Ireland still remains a more religious nation than the UK is, indeed when you add the 4% of Irish who say they are Protestants and Church of Ireland the number of Christians in Ireland reaches 73%
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/census-number-of-catholics-in-ireland-falls-10pc-as-over-700000-say-they-have-no-religion/a2127042755.html
Enough. Bring on a Real Reckoning. Let’s see people go to jail, not just the evil perpetrators, but the thousands of people that enabled them. The System
He’s no Kirk Shepherd.
https://x.com/sahilkapur/status/1875237972897099944
Well done Luke Littler, World Champion of darts.
Apple CEO Tim Cook is donating $1 million to Trump's inaugural committee - Axios
https://x.com/BNODesk/status/1875288171111731593
https://x.com/archivetvmus71/status/1875240710695199201?s=61
Far too many of our ruling class are willing collaborators with evil.
It’s unreal. Add on the non-ranking prize money and he’s taken £1.5m in 12 months. Aged 17.
This is going to get worse
It’s a shame they go from the world championship to a glorified Exhibtion competition only a few play in with no ranking points available. Feels like it loses something. Especially as the format has been poor.
I was speaking to a chap in his 30s, grew up in this Burgundy village with his German mother but has been working back in the homeland the last few years. His job: doing bat surveys around Stuttgart when there’s a planning application.
Nope. It’s YOU and your posts I’m satirising. To wake you up, so you can understand what you actually sound like to the rest of us - you sound just like Elon Musk - and prove how utterly wrong your position is on this.
For the grooming gangs horror to be used as an opportunist political football, as you are pushing all day, that would be the pinnacle of betrayal to all the victims, that would be the callous insensitivity, and certainly the wrong way for UK politics to go.
At heart of the issue, and only outcome that could make a difference for victims to now and the future, was a culture where the gangs were not pursued, because it was believed the victims would be not be strong enough witnesses. Thank goodness Nazi Afzal came along when he did, and turned that on its head, pity he didn’t get his position of power to make a difference earlier.
What did Nazi Afzal change? He started prosecuting the gangs for their crimes, and changed the understanding and culture towards grooming. All people in power, political and otherwise, at every level, were wedded to the previous culture of “the police pick up someone at a place they have been raped, take them elsewhere where they should be safe, a week later they are back at other place under their own decision, it’s pointless bringing it as it won’t stand up in court.”
So I am opposed to you, Lucky Guy, turning this fact into a political football. The reverse of what you are pushing is what is needed, all serious politicians to tread carefully and thoughtfully and to unite behind the new culture and approach, not just to grooming gangs, but where all crimes against people not getting convictions or charges brought, because rotten culture still exists that’s not understanding of grooming or trusting victim testimony.
Look at your posts today. Shame on you. You’ve got suckered by Musk and fellow fascists into a muddled mess. And you are not alone in that.
"Tony
@EvacTony
I would be glad to assist any national enquiry in the grooming/rape gangs
Let me be clear although I didn't have any direct involvement with grooming gangs, I did come across victims of them from time to time, mostly they were mispers (missing persons) I raised and asked questions as to why these missing girls kept having links to Muslim men/addresses, I was shut down, when all this started emerging the force I worked for "looked into" any possible similar on us, I sent everything I had been involved with and my concerns to the team looking at it but was told nothing was found. You constantly had the racism accusation chucked around if you raised this issue. Eventually I lost all faith in the police as an organisation for this and other reasons I left."
We need to start ramping up defence spending.
'How the British Wool Council Fleeced the Nation'
'The Great Forestry Commission Carve Up'
'Mr Grits Vs the Groceries Code Adjudicator'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W5fKtcqd-w
There’s plenty of evidence on Twitter from the last couple of weeks that Americans are starting to watch the darts, and especially love the live atmosphere.
Tories: there should have been a public enquiry, why won’t Labour grant it
Facts: the Tories blocked the public enquiry, here’s the evidence
Tories: it isn’t a party political issue
One player even won enough cash this tournament to save his tour card.
Michael Smith will have tumbled down the rankings as he lost early doors and was defending £500K from two years ago.
I’ll be following Q School shortly. See if Beau Greaves gets a card.
I liked it.