1. We will get a proper investigation of the sassytempts on Trump himself
2. We will get a proper investigative of the origins of Covid. And the cover up thereof. I wouldn’t like to be Fauci, Collins, Daszak, Jeremy Farrar et al
1. We will get a proper investigation of the sassytempts on Trump himself
2. We will get a proper investigative of the origins of Covid. And the cover up thereof. I wouldn’t like to be Fauci, Collins, Daszak, Jeremy Farrar et al
Does 'proper investigation' mean 'an investigation whose results I know I shall like, as it its results are predetermined' ?
Who can blame her? Having her country elect a deranged old fool who has threatened to be a dictator is not good.
Venezuela did something similar with Chavez and it’s been a disaster.
It was very avoidable if they'd just taken some basic steps to dampen down the appeal of Trump and people like him.
For example Thatcher's government was mostly full of old-school paternalists like Geoffrey Howe and Douglas Hurd, the very opposite of populist, but despite that she managed to make the far-right disappear almost completely by saying and doing a few things to satisfy people on the populist front.
More that, like the governments of Mitterrand & Kohl, she had a plan based on confidence in her country.
Checking some more prolific accounts many haven't tweeted in 3 hours, I think many are in shock - always unclear whether people are spinning or believing, but I think it's the latter with many, it's not a shock to those following the polls (though we'd hoped they would fall on the positive side) but despite knowing it was close these really thought they had it.
I get the shock. This could be an inflection point. Voters have ignored the warnings from the people best qualified to assess Trump's fitness for office. Meanwhile, the people around Trump really are the worst of the worst - gruesome and cynical opportunists whooping it up.
Who cares? Well, the fact that the "indispensible" nation, the backstop for democracy and liberal values, is going for a preening narcissist who is so obviously unfit, is potentially devastating for the West.
The Harris campaign sucked. If all you have is calling your opponent a fascist , you don’t have much. I completely missed the big theme attracting voters to her. Walz was a dead weight.
I think virtually everyone did on here. The shilling for Harris was off the charts, as was the sneering at Trump or Trump supporters, and massively affected the betting.
1. We will get a proper investigation of the sassytempts on Trump himself
2. We will get a proper investigative of the origins of Covid. And the cover up thereof. I wouldn’t like to be Fauci, Collins, Daszak, Jeremy Farrar et al
Does 'proper investigation' mean 'an investigation whose results I know I shall like, as it its results are predetermined' ?
The Harris campaign sucked. If all you have is calling your opponent a fascist , you don’t have much. I completely missed the big theme attracting voters to her. Walz was a dead weight.
I think virtually everyone did on here. The shilling for Harris was off the charts, as was the sneering at Trump or Trump supporters, and massively affected the betting.
The Harris campaign sucked. If all you have is calling your opponent a fascist , you don’t have much. I completely missed the big theme attracting voters to her. Walz was a dead weight.
I think virtually everyone did on here. The shilling for Harris was off the charts, as was the sneering at Trump or Trump supporters, and massively affected the betting.
She did try to reach out, tried to move to the centre on the border etc. Clearly it didn't cut through.
Until now Ukraine has been held in check by the threat of the Biden administration reducing support if Ukraine used its weapons directly against targets in Russia. Given that under Trump they are likely to lose that support anyway, might we now see them decide to attack Russia directly?
The Harris campaign sucked. If all you have is calling your opponent a fascist , you don’t have much. I completely missed the big theme attracting voters to her. Walz was a dead weight.
I think virtually everyone did on here. The shilling for Harris was off the charts, as was the sneering at Trump or Trump supporters, and massively affected the betting.
The Harris campaign sucked. If all you have is calling your opponent a fascist , you don’t have much. I completely missed the big theme attracting voters to her. Walz was a dead weight.
I think virtually everyone did on here. The shilling for Harris was off the charts, as was the sneering at Trump or Trump supporters, and massively affected the betting.
The Harris campaign sucked. If all you have is calling your opponent a fascist , you don’t have much. I completely missed the big theme attracting voters to her. Walz was a dead weight.
I think virtually everyone did on here. The shilling for Harris was off the charts, as was the sneering at Trump or Trump supporters, and massively affected the betting.
I know the Presidential handover is in January. When do Congress start the new term?
What scope for action does Biden still have between now and January assuming the current Congress are amenable?
I fear there are going to be a lot of lawsuits thrown at Biden, Harris and the wider top Democratic leadership. Enough to distract and gum up the works of government. The start of the vengeance.
All the commentators now saying Harris should have picked Shapiro instead of Walz.
Most commentators who supported Trump will say they were right, even if it was for the wrong reasons. Most commentators who supported Harris will point at small snippets they said that casted doubt (*) on the result, and say that was the reason she failed.
Me? I made no predictions, as the American electoral system is too arcane for even Americans to make good predictions. But I fervently hoped for a Harris win.
Despite the crowing of Leon et al, the world is a much more dangerous place this morning. More dangerous for Ukraine; more dangerous for eastern Europe; more dangerous for the Arab world; more dangerous for women; more dangerous for immigrants, and more dangerous for the poot.
If you're not in one of those groups, and do not care for them, you might be happy with this result.
(*) That's exactly what clever commentators do; leave themselves an out.
The Harris campaign sucked. If all you have is calling your opponent a fascist , you don’t have much. I completely missed the big theme attracting voters to her. Walz was a dead weight.
I think virtually everyone did on here. The shilling for Harris was off the charts, as was the sneering at Trump or Trump supporters, and massively affected the betting.
Until now Ukraine has been held in check by the threat of the Biden administration reducing support if Ukraine used its weapons directly against targets in Russia. Given that under Trump they are likely to lose that support anyway, might we now see them decide to attack Russia directly?
I didn’t post last night because I knew I’d get accused of the same old nonsense. But there was a story yesterday that the White House is dragging its feet on allowing the Swedes to donate its AWACS.
It’s quite unclear how much this election is really going to affect things for Ukraine. Sullivan (for it is he not Biden now surely) has the chance to release billions of dollars of sophisticated kit in the next 2 months. Let’s see if he does…
Well, that sucks. But my prediction (albeit it rather a weak one) of a Trump victory was right. However, I’m glad I stayed out of this market full stop. I hope some PBers made money. Now for some sleep.
The Harris campaign sucked. If all you have is calling your opponent a fascist , you don’t have much. I completely missed the big theme attracting voters to her. Walz was a dead weight.
I think virtually everyone did on here. The shilling for Harris was off the charts, as was the sneering at Trump or Trump supporters, and massively affected the betting.
Anyone who posted anything like a pro Trump analysis was shouted down or accused of being a Trump supporter.
Focused far too much on the man rather than the ball.
It's perfectly possible to post pro-Trump stuff and maintain the vestiges of being neutral. They did not.
It is particularly egregious amongst those who fly the Ukrainian flag as their avatar - a country their shilling has betrayed.
Absolute bollocks.
You were one of the worst offenders.
I would suggest you wait and see to what extent Trump betrays Ukraine before you start your gloating and vendettas.
I see no reason at present to change my view that he will be disastrous for world security in general and Ukraine in particular.
I agree on Ukraine but, again, you fall into the trap of insinuating anyone who might go for Trump must be a secret Putinista admirer of him, who must be condemned.
It's this sort of shit that silenced or suppressed voices on here and has cost a lot of people money tonight.
The Harris campaign sucked. If all you have is calling your opponent a fascist , you don’t have much. I completely missed the big theme attracting voters to her. Walz was a dead weight.
I think virtually everyone did on here. The shilling for Harris was off the charts, as was the sneering at Trump or Trump supporters, and massively affected the betting.
Anyone who posted anything like a pro Trump analysis was shouted down or accused of being a Trump supporter.
Focused far too much on the man rather than the ball.
It's perfectly possible to post pro-Trump stuff and maintain the vestiges of being neutral. They did not.
It is particularly egregious amongst those who fly the Ukrainian flag as their avatar - a country their shilling has betrayed.
Absolute bollocks.
You were one of the worst offenders.
"Offenders" for pointing out the truth?
If you only ever post one side, you cannot pretend to be neutral. If some of your posts are untruths breathlessly painted as the truth, you cannot pretend to be neutral.
I'd argue there were some such on the Harris side of that, and I doubt they'd deny it. But there were definitely some on the Trump side as well. Except they mostly did not say what they really wanted.
This was particularly egregious when they pretended to care about Ukraine as well, yet would not state how a Trump government would help Ukraine.
As I've said all along, you cannot support Trump and Ukraine. Although I now really, really hope I'm wrong about that, and Trump volte-faces and helps Ukraine.
The Harris campaign sucked. If all you have is calling your opponent a fascist , you don’t have much. I completely missed the big theme attracting voters to her. Walz was a dead weight.
I think virtually everyone did on here. The shilling for Harris was off the charts, as was the sneering at Trump or Trump supporters, and massively affected the betting.
Rest is politics mob look like they are going to have a collective breakdown. Its all cos of sexism and racism....
Rory Stewart: "If she was winning, we'd have a good answer for why she was winning."
This is a problem with these podcasts lineups when its all people with the same views, they now have no idea why.
Its sexism, racism, its Musk lying, ....
All could be factors, but i doubt sufficiently explain it, in terms of sweeping or nearly sweeping the swing states.
The exit poll was quite clear economy (i think specifically was inflation) and Biden had terrible approval ratings....bit hard to overcome that when you are the incumbent.
The Harris campaign sucked. If all you have is calling your opponent a fascist , you don’t have much. I completely missed the big theme attracting voters to her. Walz was a dead weight.
I think virtually everyone did on here. The shilling for Harris was off the charts, as was the sneering at Trump or Trump supporters, and massively affected the betting.
Anyone who posted anything like a pro Trump analysis was shouted down or accused of being a Trump supporter.
Focused far too much on the man rather than the ball.
It's perfectly possible to post pro-Trump stuff and maintain the vestiges of being neutral. They did not.
It is particularly egregious amongst those who fly the Ukrainian flag as their avatar - a country their shilling has betrayed.
Absolute bollocks.
You were one of the worst offenders.
"Offenders" for pointing out the truth?
If you only ever post one side, you cannot pretend to be neutral. If some of your posts are untruths breathlessly painted as the truth, you cannot pretend to be neutral.
I'd argue there were some such on the Harris side of that, and I doubt they'd deny it. But there were definitely some on the Trump side as well. Except they mostly did not say what they really wanted.
This was particularly egregious when they pretended to care about Ukraine as well, yet would not state how a Trump government would help Ukraine.
As I've said all along, you cannot support Trump and Ukraine. Although I now really, really hope I'm wrong about that, and Trump volte-faces and helps Ukraine.
Yeah, right.
Except this election wasn't about Ukraine in the US, was it?
That's what we were most concerned about. But not American voters.
Your problem is you couldn't separate the two things.
All the commentators now saying Harris should have picked Shapiro instead of Walz.
More like Biden should have picked Mayor Pete instead of Kamala.
I am looking forward to the inside story of how the hell she ended up being endorsed by Biden’s Twitter account the night he stood down. It clearly wasn’t Obama and Pelosi’s plan and was the moment the election was blown. An historic contested convention to choose the candidate would have been watched by every swing voter in America. And would have allowed the blues to go for someone new, in what was already shaping up to be a change election.
The Harris campaign sucked. If all you have is calling your opponent a fascist , you don’t have much. I completely missed the big theme attracting voters to her. Walz was a dead weight.
I think virtually everyone did on here. The shilling for Harris was off the charts, as was the sneering at Trump or Trump supporters, and massively affected the betting.
Anyone who posted anything like a pro Trump analysis was shouted down or accused of being a Trump supporter.
Focused far too much on the man rather than the ball.
It's perfectly possible to post pro-Trump stuff and maintain the vestiges of being neutral. They did not.
It is particularly egregious amongst those who fly the Ukrainian flag as their avatar - a country their shilling has betrayed.
Absolute bollocks.
You were one of the worst offenders.
I would suggest you wait and see to what extent Trump betrays Ukraine before you start your gloating and vendettas.
I see no reason at present to change my view that he will be disastrous for world security in general and Ukraine in particular.
I agree on Ukraine but, again, you fall into the trap of insinuating anyone who might go for Trump must be a secret Putinista admirer of him, who must be condemned.
It's this sort of shit that silenced or suppressed voices on here and has cost a lot of people money tonight.
Shame on you.
It's impossible to support Ukraine and Trump. Trump has made his position on Ukraine very clear, both in his first presidency and since. It is not a supportive position.
If you care about Ukraine, you cannot support Trump. If you disagree, tell me how Trump will 'help' Ukraine?
So when does Biden start moaning this is because he was dumped as the nominee? Not that he looked like having a shot, but it's tradition for those ousted to believe they'd have done better.
So when does Biden start moaning this is because he was dumped as the nominee? Not that he looked like having a shot, but it's tradition for those ousted to believe they'd have done better.
So when does Biden start moaning this is because he was dumped as the nominee? Not that he looked like having a shot, but it's tradition for those ousted to believe they'd have done better.
I fear that the left in America will react to this in exactly the wrong way, which is to say by becoming very angry, bitter and authoritarian. The only real point of the left in any country is that they try to be nice people. If they give up on that, there's not much point.
The Harris campaign sucked. If all you have is calling your opponent a fascist , you don’t have much. I completely missed the big theme attracting voters to her. Walz was a dead weight.
I think virtually everyone did on here. The shilling for Harris was off the charts, as was the sneering at Trump or Trump supporters, and massively affected the betting.
The Harris campaign sucked. If all you have is calling your opponent a fascist , you don’t have much. I completely missed the big theme attracting voters to her. Walz was a dead weight.
I think virtually everyone did on here. The shilling for Harris was off the charts, as was the sneering at Trump or Trump supporters, and massively affected the betting.
Anyone who posted anything like a pro Trump analysis was shouted down or accused of being a Trump supporter.
Focused far too much on the man rather than the ball.
It's perfectly possible to post pro-Trump stuff and maintain the vestiges of being neutral. They did not.
It is particularly egregious amongst those who fly the Ukrainian flag as their avatar - a country their shilling has betrayed.
Absolute bollocks.
You were one of the worst offenders.
"Offenders" for pointing out the truth?
If you only ever post one side, you cannot pretend to be neutral. If some of your posts are untruths breathlessly painted as the truth, you cannot pretend to be neutral.
I'd argue there were some such on the Harris side of that, and I doubt they'd deny it. But there were definitely some on the Trump side as well. Except they mostly did not say what they really wanted.
This was particularly egregious when they pretended to care about Ukraine as well, yet would not state how a Trump government would help Ukraine.
As I've said all along, you cannot support Trump and Ukraine. Although I now really, really hope I'm wrong about that, and Trump volte-faces and helps Ukraine.
Yeah, right.
Except this election wasn't about Ukraine in the US, was it?
That's what we were most concerned about. But not American voters.
Your problem is you couldn't separate the two things.
Nor could many others.
Because I, as an Englishman, care about Ukraine. I also care about security, both of our own and the world. I care about the economy, both our own, and of the world. I care about the rights of myself and others, who are not like me.
On all these points, Trump winning is bad for America and the world. You are a white Englishman, capable of working anywhere in the world, You will probably be least affected by a Trump win.
Sadly, it appears the great American public disagree. But you did not know that any more than I did.
As so often, Sean Trende was correct, that Walz brought nothing to the Democratic campaign.
A liberal candidate should be balanced by a Conservative VP.
Seemed like a nice enough guy, but I didn't see much shared about him after the opening splash, just a handful of clips, but I'm not sure how big an impact VP nominees usually make.
I slept through the action but have to say that I am cautiously optimistic this morning. As much as people say that the situation will be catastrophic for Ukraine I don't believe it, the situation looks catastrophic to me at the moment and my instinct is that it is more likely that a solution will be found with Trump as president. I have been posting about this for a year or so, and no one has provided me with any persuasive analysis that demonstrates the existing trajectory leads to anything other than a very slow, gradual and expensive defeat. Instead the discussion about this is largely just a stream of propoganda, which is quite sad really.
The concern that I have is that European countries failed to foresee the election of Trump despite all the signs pointing that way, which has created an avoidable diplomatic problem. Why did politicians project all their hopes in a democrat victory with such a weak candidate and a weak team and a track record of decline, disinterest and failure? How is Starmer going to deal with this given that the Labour party have created its own conflict with Trump and Musk? Can things be resolved going forward in a context where so many of its MP's and supporters are likely to be irreconcilable to the outcome of the US election? Where do they think they will look instead?
I think you have to just be hopeful that things work out.
I fear that the left in America will react to this in exactly the wrong way, which is to say by becoming very angry, bitter and authoritarian. The only real point of the left in any country is that they try to be nice people. If they give up on that, there's not much point.
I suspect some at least will try Trump esque tactics of legal challenges and extreme crudeness. It works, they will say. Yes there was more to it, but the temptation to strop will be there.
Another point is that someone as rude and vulgar as Trump couldn't possibly have won an election 20 or 30 years ago. Maybe that means a lot of the voting public have also moved in that direction, because voters get the leaders they deserve in a democracy.
Another point is that someone as rude and vulgar as Trump couldn't possibly have won an election 20 or 30 years ago. Maybe that means a lot of the voting public have also moved in that direction, because voters get the leaders they deserve in a democracy.
Loud, arrogant and self opinionated....no, Americans never had thay reputation....
All the commentators now saying Harris should have picked Shapiro instead of Walz.
More like Biden should have picked Mayor Pete instead of Kamala.
I am looking forward to the inside story of how the hell she ended up being endorsed by Biden’s Twitter account the night he stood down. It clearly wasn’t Obama and Pelosi’s plan and was the moment the election was blown. An historic contested convention to choose the candidate would have been watched by every swing voter in America. And would have allowed the blues to go for someone new, in what was already shaping up to be a change election.
Part of the problem was the timetable. There was not the time for a full-blown primary campaign so the VP was the obvious choice. There might also have been an element of Biden tuning out once forced to withdraw. If it had been planned, then the obvious plan would have been for Biden to step down last year so that Kamala would have been President already going into the campaign.
Another point is that someone as rude and vulgar as Trump couldn't possibly have won an election 20 or 30 years ago. Maybe that means a lot of the voting public have also moved in that direction, because voters get the leaders they deserve in a democracy.
Class seems to be an important factor in both uk and us politics.
Illinois is a bit of a shocker. Currently only 51.5% to 47.0% to Harris with 87% reporting, and Trump has polled 37% in Chicago. Normally a safe Dem state.
Another point is that someone as rude and vulgar as Trump couldn't possibly have won an election 20 or 30 years ago. Maybe that means a lot of the voting public have also moved in that direction, because voters get the leaders they deserve in a democracy.
True leaders shape opinion as well as react to it. I hate the impact Trump has had but he really has been a leader for their politics, not just riding a wave. He's redefined what's acceptable and even his lackeys cannot pull off the same.
Comments
1. We will get a proper investigation of the sassytempts on Trump himself
2. We will get a proper investigative of the origins of Covid. And the cover up thereof. I wouldn’t like to be Fauci, Collins, Daszak, Jeremy Farrar et al
Leadership, I think they call it.
Who cares? Well, the fact that the "indispensible" nation, the backstop for democracy and liberal values, is going for a preening narcissist who is so obviously unfit, is potentially devastating for the West.
Ah, well. Off to bed.
You’re not American. Also a vote for Trump is quite logical and even moral - depending on what issues really matter to you
You can disagree with that; but voting Trump is not an evil act per se
@MarqueeMark was the most ridiculous cheer leader
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14025391/video-Donald-Trump-garbage-truck-conspiracy.html
"Why independent voters are turning to Trump
On the ground in Pennsylvania, the Harris campaign comes across as weak and out of touch
Edward Lucas"
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/why-independent-voters-are-turning-to-trump-b30ncthnj
Until now Ukraine has been held in check by the threat of the Biden administration reducing support if Ukraine used its weapons directly against targets in Russia. Given that under Trump they are likely to lose that support anyway, might we now see them decide to attack Russia directly?
1. It’s not as bad as Biden yet
2. It’s arrived much later
Maybe he'll surprise us and be a bit magnanimous.
I think he is also more likely to moderate some of his policies / behaviour if he wins comfortably rather than very narrowly after a big fight.
Focused far too much on the man rather than the ball.
I know the Presidential handover is in January. When do Congress start the new term?
What scope for action does Biden still have between now and January assuming the current Congress are amenable?
Still, comfortably up for the year, so all is not lost.
It is particularly egregious amongst those who fly the Ukrainian flag as their avatar - a country their shilling has betrayed.
You were one of the worst offenders.
Yes he can manage his schedule better than during a campaign, but still.
Its sexism, racism, its Musk lying, ....
Shapiro instead of Harris, maybe.
Me? I made no predictions, as the American electoral system is too arcane for even Americans to make good predictions. But I fervently hoped for a Harris win.
Despite the crowing of Leon et al, the world is a much more dangerous place this morning. More dangerous for Ukraine; more dangerous for eastern Europe; more dangerous for the Arab world; more dangerous for women; more dangerous for immigrants, and more dangerous for the poot.
If you're not in one of those groups, and do not care for them, you might be happy with this result.
(*) That's exactly what clever commentators do; leave themselves an out.
https://decisiondeskhq.com/results/2024/General/US-House/
I see no reason at present to change my view that he will be disastrous for world security in general and Ukraine in particular.
Which is vanishingly unlikely. Trump is clearly going to win both.
Not sure by how much on the latter, but he will.
It’s quite unclear how much this election is really going to affect things for Ukraine. Sullivan (for it is he not Biden now surely) has the chance to release billions of dollars of sophisticated kit in the next 2 months. Let’s see if he does…
It's this sort of shit that silenced or suppressed voices on here and has cost a lot of people money tonight.
Shame on you.
If you only ever post one side, you cannot pretend to be neutral. If some of your posts are untruths breathlessly painted as the truth, you cannot pretend to be neutral.
I'd argue there were some such on the Harris side of that, and I doubt they'd deny it. But there were definitely some on the Trump side as well. Except they mostly did not say what they really wanted.
This was particularly egregious when they pretended to care about Ukraine as well, yet would not state how a Trump government would help Ukraine.
As I've said all along, you cannot support Trump and Ukraine. Although I now really, really hope I'm wrong about that, and Trump volte-faces and helps Ukraine.
Yeah, right.
That's what we were most concerned about. But not American voters.
Your problem is you couldn't separate the two things.
Nor could many others.
If you care about Ukraine, you cannot support Trump. If you disagree, tell me how Trump will 'help' Ukraine?
A liberal candidate should be balanced by a Conservative VP.
On all these points, Trump winning is bad for America and the world. You are a white Englishman, capable of working anywhere in the world, You will probably be least affected by a Trump win.
Sadly, it appears the great American public disagree. But you did not know that any more than I did.
You have been missed.
The concern that I have is that European countries failed to foresee the election of Trump despite all the signs pointing that way, which has created an avoidable diplomatic problem. Why did politicians project all their hopes in a democrat victory with such a weak candidate and a weak team and a track record of decline, disinterest and failure? How is Starmer going to deal with this given that the Labour party have created its own conflict with Trump and Musk? Can things be resolved going forward in a context where so many of its MP's and supporters are likely to be irreconcilable to the outcome of the US election? Where do they think they will look instead?
I think you have to just be hopeful that things work out.
BREAKINGGGGG
I think I have found Tabasco in Central Seoul
Just kidding, he gets on with Trump but clearly wouldn't be willing to do what the government would want of its diplomats.
The same dynamic that is driving populist hard right votes in Europe and which will do the same in the UK eventually
For ever.
You do realise your argument could be used by proponents of a total ban on abortion? That it doesn't matter?
Of course it was known Trump was doing better there, the hope was Harris was doing better with white people, which if she was it wasn't by much.
Putting abortion separately onto ballots drove home that pro-choice right wing voters could vote to protect abortion rights, and vote Trump as well.
https://edition.cnn.com/election/2024/results/president?admin1=17&election-data-id=2024-PG&selected-election-data-id=2024-PG-IL&election-painting-mode=projection-with-lead&filter-key-races=false&filter-flipped=false&filter-remaining=false