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What Americans are expecting the election result to be and when – politicalbetting.com

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  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755
    darkage said:

    I think the risk to Finland and the Baltics is higher with the democrats. If there is no strategic solution in Ukraine you are effectively supporting an endless war of attrition, with limited political will on the part of the US to back. This to my mind is an extremely dangerous outcome. The Biden administration has embarked on a project in Ukraine it has proven repeatedly it doesn't have the motivation to complete, despite it having the resources to do so. How many people have died? 1 million? For what purpose? A war of attrition in the hope of the Russian state collapsing? This strategy has failed. Russia is not collapsing, it is getting stronger, the west is getting weaker. But the strategy in Ukraine never changes, it is an afterthought in the back of the mind of an exhausted empire, an afghanistan like situation.

    Disruption to the strategy under Trump comes with very many risks, including the risk that Ukraine would just be abandoned. But I put the risk of that as being low given the evident self interest on the part of the US of maintaining support from its European allies. There are many possible outcomes, including the possibility that the war could actually be escalated to try and create the conditions for a lasting solution, at least insofar as Ukraine is concerned.

    I would think very differently if Harris had come out and said the US needed to stop being timid in the face of Russian imperialism. But she seems content with the status quo.

    Instead we have seen in the last week, Zelensky railing against the White House, for leaking the secret annexes to his victory plan, and extending only 10% of the military aid approved by Congress. This should disturb everyone here but for some reason I received bullying taunts for raising this story.

    Perhaps this is a massive psyop and by the weekend Tomahawks will be raining down on Russian assets. But I see no evidence that Harris would approach things any differently to Biden. It’s long term attritional warfare hoping that Russian elites eventually solve the problem for us. And it’s not at all clear that this is the best strategy for long term peace in Europe.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,159

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    My analysis of the election has changed. If I had a vote, it would be for Trump.
    The defining issue for me is Ukraine. I don't think that the democrats can solve this and I think they will end up gradually losing the war in Ukraine, as the conflict continues on its current trajectory with no apparent strategic direction. This could cause the rapid collapse of more countries, and significant consequential damage.
    My gut feeling is that Trump would be more likely to find a strategic solution to the issue of conflict with Russia.
    This puts me at odds with almost everyone, including everyone I know in Finland, but it is my assessment of the situation. There is too much familiarity bias and continuity bias which fuels the assumption that Harris would preserve NATO and the European security arrangement.
    With Trump there is the possibility of an updated solution to the security question, there is a risk that this fails, but the current direction of travel seems to lead to failure anyway.
    I have this view even accepting that Trump is a significant threat to democracy itself. But I was influenced a lot by Niall Ferguson's recent comments.

    I hear you. For this and his antiWoke credentials I can see the appeal of Trump…

    … however for me the many downsides are just too much. His insane economic policies. His chaotic attacks on the western alliance. His likely revenge on Labour Britain (which will be fun to watch as it cripples Starmer but probably bad for UK PLC)

    So I hope Trump loses
    Pretty much for the same reasons as you I am hoping for a Trump defeat. Also he would be a far greater enabler of Butcher Nethanyahu in the middle east than Harris.

    I do not buy all this "end of democracy" bollocks if he wins. But a Trump win would not be good for the world.

    Harris is a poor candidate but is far better than the Trumpdozer.

    No, she's not.

    Gore was a poor candidate; as was Dukakis or Hillary.
    All had month to prepare their campaigns, and variously gaffed in the home straight. Gore even flubbed his Florida recount call.
    What missteps has Harris made ?
    Being female and a Democrat.
    I would say more "being the representative of the incumbent party after a period of high inflation". No voters anywhere have liked the inflationary period, regardless of whether wages have also grown or not, and incumbents of every stripe have been tossed out or hung on by the skin of their teeth. It's a testament to how poor a candidate *Trump* is (and to the state of polarisation in the US) that this election is even close, I think.
  • Andy. Waiting for your election prediction!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,082

    Using F-word at work is no sacking offence in the north, rules judge

    Delivery driver wins case for unfair dismissal despite calling female colleague a “f***ing mong” during an argument about her weight


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/using-f-word-at-work-is-no-sacking-offence-in-the-north-rules-judge-p7hnkz927

    In the southeast, of course, it would have been a 'facking mong'.

    (My inlaws, who are from Croydon, are much, much swearier than my family.)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,936
    ydoethur said:

    Further proof that lawyers are the hardest working people in the world.

    US law firms in London demand 70-hour weeks — for £170,000 salaries

    Newly qualified solicitors report that they routinely finish after 10.30pm


    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/us-law-firms-in-london-demand-70-hour-weeks-for-170000-salaries-plhbbq5j3

    Taking clients out to dinner doesn't count as work!
    Does shagging them?
    At my age, I'd be happy to pay tax on such an activity as a benefit in kind.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,294
    Leon said:

    Off topic ish, it’s very confusing time wise watching this election from South Korea. Here in Seoul on election day November 5 it is nearly dusk. The bright autumn sun is setting over the mountains and skyscrapers

    So I’m thinking Ooh we should start getting exit polls soon. And then I check the time and it is only just gone midnight in Los Angeles. Basically, for is here out east today’s election will be tomorrow. And tomorrow. And tomorrow….

    *ominous doomsday sound*

    Have you done Korean barbecue yet ?
  • Cookie said:


    Using F-word at work is no sacking offence in the north, rules judge

    Delivery driver wins case for unfair dismissal despite calling female colleague a “f***ing mong” during an argument about her weight


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/using-f-word-at-work-is-no-sacking-offence-in-the-north-rules-judge-p7hnkz927

    In the southeast, of course, it would have been a 'facking mong'.

    (My inlaws, who are from Croydon, are much, much swearier than my family.)
    Listen gov. You want some do yer? South London speak. Trumps got it like. I fuckin know like. Know what I mean. I am the font of all knowledge.Yea. Sure do
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    pm215 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    My analysis of the election has changed. If I had a vote, it would be for Trump.
    The defining issue for me is Ukraine. I don't think that the democrats can solve this and I think they will end up gradually losing the war in Ukraine, as the conflict continues on its current trajectory with no apparent strategic direction. This could cause the rapid collapse of more countries, and significant consequential damage.
    My gut feeling is that Trump would be more likely to find a strategic solution to the issue of conflict with Russia.
    This puts me at odds with almost everyone, including everyone I know in Finland, but it is my assessment of the situation. There is too much familiarity bias and continuity bias which fuels the assumption that Harris would preserve NATO and the European security arrangement.
    With Trump there is the possibility of an updated solution to the security question, there is a risk that this fails, but the current direction of travel seems to lead to failure anyway.
    I have this view even accepting that Trump is a significant threat to democracy itself. But I was influenced a lot by Niall Ferguson's recent comments.

    I hear you. For this and his antiWoke credentials I can see the appeal of Trump…

    … however for me the many downsides are just too much. His insane economic policies. His chaotic attacks on the western alliance. His likely revenge on Labour Britain (which will be fun to watch as it cripples Starmer but probably bad for UK PLC)

    So I hope Trump loses
    Pretty much for the same reasons as you I am hoping for a Trump defeat. Also he would be a far greater enabler of Butcher Nethanyahu in the middle east than Harris.

    I do not buy all this "end of democracy" bollocks if he wins. But a Trump win would not be good for the world.

    Harris is a poor candidate but is far better than the Trumpdozer.

    No, she's not.

    Gore was a poor candidate; as was Dukakis or Hillary.
    All had month to prepare their campaigns, and variously gaffed in the home straight. Gore even flubbed his Florida recount call.
    What missteps has Harris made ?
    Being female and a Democrat.
    I would say more "being the representative of the incumbent party after a period of high inflation". No voters anywhere have liked the inflationary period, regardless of whether wages have also grown or not, and incumbents of every stripe have been tossed out or hung on by the skin of their teeth. It's a testament to how poor a candidate *Trump* is (and to the state of polarisation in the US) that this election is even close, I think.
    That is a big impediment to her electoral chance sure. But lots of previous candidates have been incumbents after high inflation and other economic woes.

    The whole worst candidate in history thing is different. There are essentially three people regularly cited as that, two of them are the only two mainstream female candidates and Democrats.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903

    algarkirk said:

    Using F-word at work is no sacking offence in the north, rules judge

    Delivery driver wins case for unfair dismissal despite calling female colleague a “f***ing mong” during an argument about her weight


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/using-f-word-at-work-is-no-sacking-offence-in-the-north-rules-judge-p7hnkz927

    We live in two nations. From my north England perch (rural and industrial town) here are millions of people, of all ages, who would never use the traditional four letter words in public, including the great majority of older people and huge numbers of younger ones. There is a minority who use them a lot. In general the place I notice them most is in PB comments.
    Glasgow f*cking waves..
    Glaswegians have elevated swearing to an art form. I just re-read How Late it Was, How Late, and I remember when it won the Booker in 1994 eyebrows were raised over the prodigious amount of swearing that it captured. What a book, though.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j3dyzsiucbbcCLH2jg3KtpcHTRkbgXoelDQ4ziysqsA/edit?usp=sharing
    Election spreadsheet.

    Does anyone know of any links that I can link to in a Google sheet that will give live numbers from each state for Harris and Trump ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Apposite Korean Anecdote Alert

    I expected South Koreans to be 100% pro Harris and anti Trump. Turns out I am wrong

    He has a base of support here. South Koreans are generally very pro western and generally VERY pro American - and Trump is seen as a kind of doughty defender of the USA (and hence Korea?) in a way the Dems are not

    Or so my Seoul guide (a Dutchman living here and immersed in Korean culture) told me. My Korean female guide on Jeju backed it up

    Is he bollocks.

    Last time he was in office he tried to shake them down for protection money. The US has been a reliable guarantor of S Korea's security, whoever was in government, for seven decades; a second Trump term puts that into question.

    They've been rapidly ramping their defence investment ever since, just in case he gets in and abandons them.
    I’m not saying he IS these things, only that two separate people - one Korean, one Dutch - both living in Korea (and very different lives in different places) told me the same thing: there is a weird subset of South Koreans who support Trump because - it seems - they always support Republicans

    A poll: Trump has 20% support here. Given Trump’s chumminess with Kim in Pyongyang I am amazed it is in double digits

    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2024/10/113_376369.html
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,897

    algarkirk said:

    Using F-word at work is no sacking offence in the north, rules judge

    Delivery driver wins case for unfair dismissal despite calling female colleague a “f***ing mong” during an argument about her weight


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/using-f-word-at-work-is-no-sacking-offence-in-the-north-rules-judge-p7hnkz927

    We live in two nations. From my north England perch (rural and industrial town) here are millions of people, of all ages, who would never use the traditional four letter words in public, including the great majority of older people and huge numbers of younger ones. There is a minority who use them a lot. In general the place I notice them most is in PB comments.
    Sounds like a load of bollocks to me. Sorry.
    One person being very sweary is 100 times more noticeable than 200 people who are not. So the fact that most people are not sweary doesn't get observed. Wearing no clothes in the street is much the same.
  • FWIW: All five of Telegraph's analysts predict Trump win this morning, although saying will be close.

    That is most reassuring after their 99% failure rate on Budget predictions.
    They are negative. Alarmist and useless.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited November 5
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Off topic ish, it’s very confusing time wise watching this election from South Korea. Here in Seoul on election day November 5 it is nearly dusk. The bright autumn sun is setting over the mountains and skyscrapers

    So I’m thinking Ooh we should start getting exit polls soon. And then I check the time and it is only just gone midnight in Los Angeles. Basically, for is here out east today’s election will be tomorrow. And tomorrow. And tomorrow….

    *ominous doomsday sound*

    Have you done Korean barbecue yet ?
    No. Mainly because I’ve done it many times elsewhere and I did a lot of shabu shabu and DIY mini bbqs in Japan (which work on the same principle)

    However I have a proper appetite tonight in Seoul and I might give it a go
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    First of all a shout out to my old friends @Anabobazina and @BatteryCorrectHorse. And @viewcode. It is great to be back.

    Re the US election, naturally enough I think Trump will win but thoughts.

    Firstly, the clues are in plain sight. You only have to look at how Americans view the country, the Administration and the main concerns (economy / inflation, immigration etc) to see Trump will win. Especially when a lot of Americans view his Administration positively.

    Then look at what the early voting data. Ralston (who, BTW, I have a lot of sympathy for) has said the R lead in NV is unprecedented in recent times. Bitzer has said the same for NC. Rurals are showing up but not in urban areas vs 4 years ago. Black voters are not coming out as they need to for the Democrats. Republicans are ahead by nearly 200K in Arizona, by over 800K in Florida. Sure, in states like PA, the Democrats are ahead but their advantage is far less than in 2020.

    Then there is the mood music. @williamglenn was pillorised for reposting a tweet ( https://x.com/vickiefornyc/status/1853511569851982213) re a Democrat insider saying the election is lost but the same theme has played out several times in Politico and The Hill over the past 10 days. There are no similar articles on Trump.

    Re the three great hopes of the Democrats - women, young voters and Haley Republicans - think again.

    One of the most hilarious things has been an almost uniformly audience of men opining women only care about abortion. It is important but, in my conversations, two women 'specific' issues play well for Republicans - the "men in women's sports / locker rooms" argument and illegal immigrants committing crimes against women. Take a look at the New Yorker article on the Laken Riley murder and it is clear it will be a major factor in Georgia.

    Re young voters, let's see but I suspect the pandemic has changed many young voters' perceptions about how they see the world and - for young male voters at least - that may not be positive for the Democrats. Joe Rogan endorsing Trump is a major plus but Trump's outreach efforts have targeted young men specifically.

    Finally re Haley Republicans, they are not going to vote for Harris and Walz. To many Republicans, they stand for everything they detest. Harris' response on Proposition 36 in CA only reinforces what they thought. Look at the comments here about AZ and the McCain / Haley Republicans (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/arizona-presidential-election-harris-trump.html) - switchover will be minimal.

    So where do I think it will go? Essentially a repeat of 2016 - Trump to essentially win all the states he did plus also NV. I think he will get close in Virginia (couldn't resist that for Anabob) and maybe win NH and NM. I think the Senate will be something like 54-46. The House is a bit more uncertain.

    PS look out for NY - it won't go Trump but Hochul only beat Zeldin 54-46 in 2022

    Good luck all.

    PS yes, this is @MrEd

    Very much appreciate your reasoned arguments as to why Trump will win . Without Dobbs the Dems would be in trouble , I think women will be the deciding factor and especially older white women who grew up with more protections will help give Harris the win . Not long till we find out .
  • nico679 said:

    First of all a shout out to my old friends @Anabobazina and @BatteryCorrectHorse. And @viewcode. It is great to be back.

    Re the US election, naturally enough I think Trump will win but thoughts.

    Firstly, the clues are in plain sight. You only have to look at how Americans view the country, the Administration and the main concerns (economy / inflation, immigration etc) to see Trump will win. Especially when a lot of Americans view his Administration positively.

    Then look at what the early voting data. Ralston (who, BTW, I have a lot of sympathy for) has said the R lead in NV is unprecedented in recent times. Bitzer has said the same for NC. Rurals are showing up but not in urban areas vs 4 years ago. Black voters are not coming out as they need to for the Democrats. Republicans are ahead by nearly 200K in Arizona, by over 800K in Florida. Sure, in states like PA, the Democrats are ahead but their advantage is far less than in 2020.

    Then there is the mood music. @williamglenn was pillorised for reposting a tweet ( https://x.com/vickiefornyc/status/1853511569851982213) re a Democrat insider saying the election is lost but the same theme has played out several times in Politico and The Hill over the past 10 days. There are no similar articles on Trump.

    Re the three great hopes of the Democrats - women, young voters and Haley Republicans - think again.

    One of the most hilarious things has been an almost uniformly audience of men opining women only care about abortion. It is important but, in my conversations, two women 'specific' issues play well for Republicans - the "men in women's sports / locker rooms" argument and illegal immigrants committing crimes against women. Take a look at the New Yorker article on the Laken Riley murder and it is clear it will be a major factor in Georgia.

    Re young voters, let's see but I suspect the pandemic has changed many young voters' perceptions about how they see the world and - for young male voters at least - that may not be positive for the Democrats. Joe Rogan endorsing Trump is a major plus but Trump's outreach efforts have targeted young men specifically.

    Finally re Haley Republicans, they are not going to vote for Harris and Walz. To many Republicans, they stand for everything they detest. Harris' response on Proposition 36 in CA only reinforces what they thought. Look at the comments here about AZ and the McCain / Haley Republicans (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/arizona-presidential-election-harris-trump.html) - switchover will be minimal.

    So where do I think it will go? Essentially a repeat of 2016 - Trump to essentially win all the states he did plus also NV. I think he will get close in Virginia (couldn't resist that for Anabob) and maybe win NH and NM. I think the Senate will be something like 54-46. The House is a bit more uncertain.

    PS look out for NY - it won't go Trump but Hochul only beat Zeldin 54-46 in 2022

    Good luck all.

    PS yes, this is @MrEd

    Very much appreciate your reasoned arguments as to why Trump will win . Without Dobbs the Dems would be in trouble , I think women will be the deciding factor and especially older white women who grew up with more protections will help give Harris the win . Not long till we find out .
    Thank you Nico and I may be completely wrong!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,294
    edited November 5
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Apposite Korean Anecdote Alert

    I expected South Koreans to be 100% pro Harris and anti Trump. Turns out I am wrong

    He has a base of support here. South Koreans are generally very pro western and generally VERY pro American - and Trump is seen as a kind of doughty defender of the USA (and hence Korea?) in a way the Dems are not

    Or so my Seoul guide (a Dutchman living here and immersed in Korean culture) told me. My Korean female guide on Jeju backed it up

    Is he bollocks.

    Last time he was in office he tried to shake them down for protection money. The US has been a reliable guarantor of S Korea's security, whoever was in government, for seven decades; a second Trump term puts that into question.

    They've been rapidly ramping their defence investment ever since, just in case he gets in and abandons them.
    I’m not saying he IS these things, only that two separate people - one Korean, one Dutch - both living in Korea (and very different lives in different places) told me the same thing: there is a weird subset of South Koreans who support Trump because - it seems - they always support Republicans

    A poll: Trump has 20% support here. Given Trump’s chumminess with Kim in Pyongyang I am amazed it is in double digits

    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2024/10/113_376369.html
    Oh, there will be such people everywhere.
    Around a third of our own electorate would opt for Trump.

    Unless it's significantly more than that, I'm not sure it means all that much.

    More notably, 20% is 1% more than their own President's current approval rating...

    And don't forget there's still a fair proportion of the population which believe in the idea of Korean re-union.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,936
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    My analysis of the election has changed. If I had a vote, it would be for Trump.
    The defining issue for me is Ukraine. I don't think that the democrats can solve this and I think they will end up gradually losing the war in Ukraine, as the conflict continues on its current trajectory with no apparent strategic direction. This could cause the rapid collapse of more countries, and significant consequential damage.
    My gut feeling is that Trump would be more likely to find a strategic solution to the issue of conflict with Russia.
    This puts me at odds with almost everyone, including everyone I know in Finland, but it is my assessment of the situation. There is too much familiarity bias and continuity bias which fuels the assumption that Harris would preserve NATO and the European security arrangement.
    With Trump there is the possibility of an updated solution to the security question, there is a risk that this fails, but the current direction of travel seems to lead to failure anyway.
    I have this view even accepting that Trump is a significant threat to democracy itself. But I was influenced a lot by Niall Ferguson's recent comments.

    I hear you. For this and his antiWoke credentials I can see the appeal of Trump…

    … however for me the many downsides are just too much. His insane economic policies. His chaotic attacks on the western alliance. His likely revenge on Labour Britain (which will be fun to watch as it cripples Starmer but probably bad for UK PLC)

    So I hope Trump loses
    Here’s the opposite argument, eloquently put by an American Spectator columnist.

    https://x.com/bridgetphetasy/status/1852881275146703149

    In her mind the wokery and immigration outweigh the negatives. She says she’s not really voting *for* Trump, more like she’s voting against the Left.
    Hmmm. That is very persuasive

    I entirely agree with her analysis: ultimately the greatest, truly civilisational danger comes from the Left, the Dems, the Woke, Labour, all of these repulsive traitors

    However I return to my ice floe/polar bear analogy. You are trapped on an ice floe which is slowly heading into warmer waters, in time this will melt and you will drown, for sure - that is the awful drift into Woke madness and darkness

    However you are ALSO sharing the ice floe with a hungry polar bear. Trump is the polar bear and your vote is a gun

    As the polar bear will probably kill you in the next few minutes, not days or weeks, you have to shoot the polar bear first and THEN think about the whole melting ice floe thing
    Your writing is punchier without the cheap-win invective. See your second paragraph which diminishes the point you were making in subsequent paragraphs.

    P.S. I like the polar bear analogy.
  • Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    My analysis of the election has changed. If I had a vote, it would be for Trump.
    The defining issue for me is Ukraine. I don't think that the democrats can solve this and I think they will end up gradually losing the war in Ukraine, as the conflict continues on its current trajectory with no apparent strategic direction. This could cause the rapid collapse of more countries, and significant consequential damage.
    My gut feeling is that Trump would be more likely to find a strategic solution to the issue of conflict with Russia.
    This puts me at odds with almost everyone, including everyone I know in Finland, but it is my assessment of the situation. There is too much familiarity bias and continuity bias which fuels the assumption that Harris would preserve NATO and the European security arrangement.
    With Trump there is the possibility of an updated solution to the security question, there is a risk that this fails, but the current direction of travel seems to lead to failure anyway.
    I have this view even accepting that Trump is a significant threat to democracy itself. But I was influenced a lot by Niall Ferguson's recent comments.

    No there isn’t - Trump will simply cut off the supply of arms to the Ukraine and Russia will take over. Then wait a few years to rebuild their supplies before moving on to the next part of “mother Russia” that was stolen from Moscow
    Which may include Finland.
    More the Baltics. Plus a nice big land corridor to Kaliningrad.
    Then Poland and East Germany, why stop there? Next stop Paris.
    Putin is not going to invade Poland, Germany and France. For a start he knows that will trigger nuclear war and destroy Russia forever

    You’re probably joking but it’s still good to keep Putin in perspective
    The counterpoint is the one expressed in Yes, Minister. (Which, towards the end, was very definitely a show proposing real political ideas in a comedic way. Was it Jay or Lynn who was actually pretty ideological?)

    Nukes are good as a defence against nukes, but they are suicidal to use in any other context, because you get nukes right back.

    And an invader doesn't take all they want in one go, they salami slice. So none of the steps is sufficient to justify all our war, but they gain what they want quietly.

    The answer Jim Hacker was led to was National Service, but it was just a sitcom and nobody would be dumb enough to propose that, surely?
    Putin will not invade Europe. Better for him to get money from China for oil and gas.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,016

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    My analysis of the election has changed. If I had a vote, it would be for Trump.
    The defining issue for me is Ukraine. I don't think that the democrats can solve this and I think they will end up gradually losing the war in Ukraine, as the conflict continues on its current trajectory with no apparent strategic direction. This could cause the rapid collapse of more countries, and significant consequential damage.
    My gut feeling is that Trump would be more likely to find a strategic solution to the issue of conflict with Russia.
    This puts me at odds with almost everyone, including everyone I know in Finland, but it is my assessment of the situation. There is too much familiarity bias and continuity bias which fuels the assumption that Harris would preserve NATO and the European security arrangement.
    With Trump there is the possibility of an updated solution to the security question, there is a risk that this fails, but the current direction of travel seems to lead to failure anyway.
    I have this view even accepting that Trump is a significant threat to democracy itself. But I was influenced a lot by Niall Ferguson's recent comments.

    No there isn’t - Trump will simply cut off the supply of arms to the Ukraine and Russia will take over. Then wait a few years to rebuild their supplies before moving on to the next part of “mother Russia” that was stolen from Moscow
    Which may include Finland.
    More the Baltics. Plus a nice big land corridor to Kaliningrad.
    Then Poland and East Germany, why stop there? Next stop Paris.
    Putin is not going to invade Poland, Germany and France. For a start he knows that will trigger nuclear war and destroy Russia forever

    You’re probably joking but it’s still good to keep Putin in perspective
    The timeline is elastic. Midway through Vance's third or fourth term
    Oh, don't be silly.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,006
    So a plurality but not a majority of Americans expect Harris to scrape home but for the result not to be known on election night.

    Seems about right
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,512

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    My analysis of the election has changed. If I had a vote, it would be for Trump.
    The defining issue for me is Ukraine. I don't think that the democrats can solve this and I think they will end up gradually losing the war in Ukraine, as the conflict continues on its current trajectory with no apparent strategic direction. This could cause the rapid collapse of more countries, and significant consequential damage.
    My gut feeling is that Trump would be more likely to find a strategic solution to the issue of conflict with Russia.
    This puts me at odds with almost everyone, including everyone I know in Finland, but it is my assessment of the situation. There is too much familiarity bias and continuity bias which fuels the assumption that Harris would preserve NATO and the European security arrangement.
    With Trump there is the possibility of an updated solution to the security question, there is a risk that this fails, but the current direction of travel seems to lead to failure anyway.
    I have this view even accepting that Trump is a significant threat to democracy itself. But I was influenced a lot by Niall Ferguson's recent comments.

    No there isn’t - Trump will simply cut off the supply of arms to the Ukraine and Russia will take over. Then wait a few years to rebuild their supplies before moving on to the next part of “mother Russia” that was stolen from Moscow
    Which may include Finland.
    More the Baltics. Plus a nice big land corridor to Kaliningrad.
    Then Poland and East Germany, why stop there? Next stop Paris.
    Putin is not going to invade Poland, Germany and France. For a start he knows that will trigger nuclear war and destroy Russia forever

    You’re probably joking but it’s still good to keep Putin in perspective
    The counterpoint is the one expressed in Yes, Minister. (Which, towards the end, was very definitely a show proposing real political ideas in a comedic way. Was it Jay or Lynn who was actually pretty ideological?)

    Nukes are good as a defence against nukes, but they are suicidal to use in any other context, because you get nukes right back.

    And an invader doesn't take all they want in one go, they salami slice. So none of the steps is sufficient to justify all our war, but they gain what they want quietly.

    The answer Jim Hacker was led to was National Service, but it was just a sitcom and nobody would be dumb enough to propose that, surely?
    Putin will not invade Europe. Better for him to get money from China for oil and gas.
    Ukraine is in (Eastern) Europe.

    So he already has.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,139
    eek said:

    FWIW: All five of Telegraph's analysts predict Trump win this morning, although saying will be close.

    That's the Telegraph - it's wishcasting...
    It's also not really true, at least if you read what they right rather than looking at the silly graphics. Rozina Sabur says she has no idea. Tim Stanley and Tony Diver don't really answer the question directly. The other two go for Trump, but hedge.

    So, basically, they're as clueless as everybody else.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    @KateEMcCann

    NEW: Chris Philp is the shadow Home Secretary
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    My analysis of the election has changed. If I had a vote, it would be for Trump.
    The defining issue for me is Ukraine. I don't think that the democrats can solve this and I think they will end up gradually losing the war in Ukraine, as the conflict continues on its current trajectory with no apparent strategic direction. This could cause the rapid collapse of more countries, and significant consequential damage.
    My gut feeling is that Trump would be more likely to find a strategic solution to the issue of conflict with Russia.
    This puts me at odds with almost everyone, including everyone I know in Finland, but it is my assessment of the situation. There is too much familiarity bias and continuity bias which fuels the assumption that Harris would preserve NATO and the European security arrangement.
    With Trump there is the possibility of an updated solution to the security question, there is a risk that this fails, but the current direction of travel seems to lead to failure anyway.
    I have this view even accepting that Trump is a significant threat to democracy itself. But I was influenced a lot by Niall Ferguson's recent comments.

    I hear you. For this and his antiWoke credentials I can see the appeal of Trump…

    … however for me the many downsides are just too much. His insane economic policies. His chaotic attacks on the western alliance. His likely revenge on Labour Britain (which will be fun to watch as it cripples Starmer but probably bad for UK PLC)

    So I hope Trump loses
    Here’s the opposite argument, eloquently put by an American Spectator columnist.

    https://x.com/bridgetphetasy/status/1852881275146703149

    In her mind the wokery and immigration outweigh the negatives. She says she’s not really voting *for* Trump, more like she’s voting against the Left.
    Hmmm. That is very persuasive

    I entirely agree with her analysis: ultimately the greatest, truly civilisational danger comes from the Left, the Dems, the Woke, Labour, all of these repulsive traitors

    However I return to my ice floe/polar bear analogy. You are trapped on an ice floe which is slowly heading into warmer waters, in time this will melt and you will drown, for sure - that is the awful drift into Woke madness and darkness

    However you are ALSO sharing the ice floe with a hungry polar bear. Trump is the polar bear and your vote is a gun

    As the polar bear will probably kill you in the next few minutes, not days or weeks, you have to shoot the polar bear first and THEN think about the whole melting ice floe thing
    That is a good analogy but I don't quite see the threat in those terms. It is more like it there is a one in 3 chance that you will be killed immeditately vs near complete certainty that it will happen after a longer wait.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,006

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    Re Georgia, and the view that more women out is a positive for Harris. It is worth remembering that Georgia was the site of a particularly high-profile case of an illegal immigrant killing a female student and one that generated a lot of anger.

    It might not be abortion that is driving these female voters out.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/will-laken-rileys-murder-tip-georgia

    Yes there’s been a lot of commentary on the Republican side about Laken Riley, and sadly a number of other similar cases that have been mentioned at rallies.

    Here’s Megyn Kelly at Trump’s rally last night, endorsing Trump and mentioning both the sad cases of murder and sexual assault by illegals, but also the controversial issue of women’s sports which might also drive turnout among younger women. It’s not necessarily just abortion behind the differential female turnout. https://x.com/megynkellyshow/status/1853643950512316882
    But if ALL the polling can agree on one thing this election, it is that there is a significant pro-Harris slant by women voters. Both in enthusiams and actual voting intention.

    And if you want a demonstration of that energy - just look at the votes ALREADY cast in Georgia.

    "The polls" have Georgia either too close to call or call it for Trump. Bullshit, I say.

    Here's the maths to support my contention that Harris wins Georgia handily. Before today's voting, she already has. It requires only two data points: the actual votes cast as per the official Georgia website - and the latest and last ABC voting intention poll on the split in how men and women will vote.

    "The final ABC News/Ipsos poll before Election Day, released on Sunday, found the gender gap among all likely voters to be 16 points. Harris had a 11-point advantage among women, 53% to 42%, while Trump had a 5-point advantage among men, 50% to 45%."

    I make no apology for reposting this. It's a betting site. The data is telling us the result, as 56% of the electorate have already voted. Absent a huge surge in voting, there's only 10% or so going to vote today in Georgia.

    So here are the likely votes cast already in Georgia, as best we can tell.

    Using the latest ABC gender splits, Harris leads by 11% in the 56% of female votes we know have been cast.

    ABC says Trump leads by 5% in that 43.8% of male votes we know have been cast.

    2.257 million women have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 55.5 = 1.252m female Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 44.5 = 1.004m Republican votes cast

    1.765 million men have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 47.5 = 0.838m male Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 52.5 = 0.926m male Republican votes cast

    Democrat total votes cast: 1.252 + 0.838 = 2.090 million
    Republican total votes cast 1.004 + 0.926 = 1.930 million

    So ABC polling on the gender split says there is a 160,000 Dem firewall after 56% of the electorate have already early voted.

    Reminder: Biden won Georgia in 2020 by just 11,779 votes

    And in case you think it's just Georgia, that's a fluke - it's not:

    Gender split in Pennsylvania is again huge in early voting. As of November 1st:

    "More than 1.6 million commonwealth voters have cast early mail-in ballots for the Nov. 5 presidential election. An Inquirer analysis of early ballot returns found that women composed 56% of the early mail-ins, with men trailing at 43%, according to voting data obtained from the Pennsylvania Department of State this week."

    https://www.inquirer.com/news/early-voting-women-seniors-pennsylvania-20241101.html

    The latest figures are 1.77m early votes, but that 56-43 margin is still there.

    A 13% split. If we again take the last ABC split of women voters favouring Harris by 11%, that is another huge firewall banked by Harris.

    I'm calling it at....4.12 Eastern Time on the 5th November:

    KAMALA HARRIS WILL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.


    In 2020 early voters tended to be Democrats while male Trump voters were more likely to vote on the day. I wouldn't read too much into it
  • Fishing said:

    eek said:

    FWIW: All five of Telegraph's analysts predict Trump win this morning, although saying will be close.

    That's the Telegraph - it's wishcasting...
    It's also not really true, at least if you read what they right rather than looking at the silly graphics. Rozina Sabur says she has no idea. Tim Stanley and Tony Diver don't really answer the question directly. The other two go for Trump, but hedge.

    So, basically, they're as clueless as everybody else.
    Sounds about right!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,170

    algarkirk said:

    Using F-word at work is no sacking offence in the north, rules judge

    Delivery driver wins case for unfair dismissal despite calling female colleague a “f***ing mong” during an argument about her weight


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/using-f-word-at-work-is-no-sacking-offence-in-the-north-rules-judge-p7hnkz927

    We live in two nations. From my north England perch (rural and industrial town) here are millions of people, of all ages, who would never use the traditional four letter words in public, including the great majority of older people and huge numbers of younger ones. There is a minority who use them a lot. In general the place I notice them most is in PB comments.
    Glasgow f*cking waves..
    Glaswegians have elevated swearing to an art form. I just re-read How Late it Was, How Late, and I remember when it won the Booker in 1994 eyebrows were raised over the prodigious amount of swearing that it captured. What a book, though.
    Yeah, Glasgowness was always an uncomfortable fit with the Booker. In an odd way Julia Neuberger’s outrage (How Late It Was is crap and a disgrace that it won) was a great tribute.

    Irvine Welsh on R4 having a cosy chat with Kirsty Young atm, cannae imagine Kelman ever succumbing to the Beeb’s siren song.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,228
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Using F-word at work is no sacking offence in the north, rules judge

    Delivery driver wins case for unfair dismissal despite calling female colleague a “f***ing mong” during an argument about her weight


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/using-f-word-at-work-is-no-sacking-offence-in-the-north-rules-judge-p7hnkz927

    It's worth reading the tribunal https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/672346d63ce5634f5f6ef5b0/Mr_R_Ogden_v_Booker_Limited_-_2400482_2024_-_Reserved.pdf

    Yes what was said was wrong but Booker completely screwed up everything and seriously pi**ed off the judge to the extent that I think he was inclined to find in the delivery drivers favour.



    one bit that I find interesting from the tribunal

    .As the term of abuse is not one relating to a protected characteristic, the
    case should be viewed in that light in my assessment.


    I would have thought 70's slang terms for a disability was a protected characteristic unless disabilities are not protected..
    He goes into that a bit further up in the document. Effectively he says although the term originally referenced a protected characteristic, it is so commonly used in parts of the North to have lost that direct connection - hence he concludes it didn't really relate to a protected characteristic.
  • HYUFD said:

    So a plurality but not a majority of Americans expect Harris to scrape home but for the result not to be known on election night.

    Seems about right

    We will see. That possibility is very plausible.
  • Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    My analysis of the election has changed. If I had a vote, it would be for Trump.
    The defining issue for me is Ukraine. I don't think that the democrats can solve this and I think they will end up gradually losing the war in Ukraine, as the conflict continues on its current trajectory with no apparent strategic direction. This could cause the rapid collapse of more countries, and significant consequential damage.
    My gut feeling is that Trump would be more likely to find a strategic solution to the issue of conflict with Russia.
    This puts me at odds with almost everyone, including everyone I know in Finland, but it is my assessment of the situation. There is too much familiarity bias and continuity bias which fuels the assumption that Harris would preserve NATO and the European security arrangement.
    With Trump there is the possibility of an updated solution to the security question, there is a risk that this fails, but the current direction of travel seems to lead to failure anyway.
    I have this view even accepting that Trump is a significant threat to democracy itself. But I was influenced a lot by Niall Ferguson's recent comments.

    No there isn’t - Trump will simply cut off the supply of arms to the Ukraine and Russia will take over. Then wait a few years to rebuild their supplies before moving on to the next part of “mother Russia” that was stolen from Moscow
    Which may include Finland.
    More the Baltics. Plus a nice big land corridor to Kaliningrad.
    Then Poland and East Germany, why stop there? Next stop Paris.
    Putin is not going to invade Poland, Germany and France. For a start he knows that will trigger nuclear war and destroy Russia forever

    You’re probably joking but it’s still good to keep Putin in perspective
    The timeline is elastic. Midway through Vance's third or fourth term
    Oh, don't be silly.
    10th term.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,082
    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    My analysis of the election has changed. If I had a vote, it would be for Trump.
    The defining issue for me is Ukraine. I don't think that the democrats can solve this and I think they will end up gradually losing the war in Ukraine, as the conflict continues on its current trajectory with no apparent strategic direction. This could cause the rapid collapse of more countries, and significant consequential damage.
    My gut feeling is that Trump would be more likely to find a strategic solution to the issue of conflict with Russia.
    This puts me at odds with almost everyone, including everyone I know in Finland, but it is my assessment of the situation. There is too much familiarity bias and continuity bias which fuels the assumption that Harris would preserve NATO and the European security arrangement.
    With Trump there is the possibility of an updated solution to the security question, there is a risk that this fails, but the current direction of travel seems to lead to failure anyway.
    I have this view even accepting that Trump is a significant threat to democracy itself. But I was influenced a lot by Niall Ferguson's recent comments.

    I hear you. For this and his antiWoke credentials I can see the appeal of Trump…

    … however for me the many downsides are just too much. His insane economic policies. His chaotic attacks on the western alliance. His likely revenge on Labour Britain (which will be fun to watch as it cripples Starmer but probably bad for UK PLC)

    So I hope Trump loses
    Here’s the opposite argument, eloquently put by an American Spectator columnist.

    https://x.com/bridgetphetasy/status/1852881275146703149

    In her mind the wokery and immigration outweigh the negatives. She says she’s not really voting *for* Trump, more like she’s voting against the Left.
    Hmmm. That is very persuasive

    I entirely agree with her analysis: ultimately the greatest, truly civilisational danger comes from the Left, the Dems, the Woke, Labour, all of these repulsive traitors

    However I return to my ice floe/polar bear analogy. You are trapped on an ice floe which is slowly heading into warmer waters, in time this will melt and you will drown, for sure - that is the awful drift into Woke madness and darkness

    However you are ALSO sharing the ice floe with a hungry polar bear. Trump is the polar bear and your vote is a gun

    As the polar bear will probably kill you in the next few minutes, not days or weeks, you have to shoot the polar bear first and THEN think about the whole melting ice floe thing
    That is a good analogy but I don't quite see the threat in those terms. It is more like it there is a one in 3 chance that you will be killed immeditately vs near complete certainty that it will happen after a longer wait.
    Maybe in the analogy, all you have to kill the polar bear with is a massive fuck-off flamethrower, which significantly accelerates the melting of the ice flow. So you can address the immediate danger but only at the cost of significantly accelerating the long term danger.
  • Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    My analysis of the election has changed. If I had a vote, it would be for Trump.
    The defining issue for me is Ukraine. I don't think that the democrats can solve this and I think they will end up gradually losing the war in Ukraine, as the conflict continues on its current trajectory with no apparent strategic direction. This could cause the rapid collapse of more countries, and significant consequential damage.
    My gut feeling is that Trump would be more likely to find a strategic solution to the issue of conflict with Russia.
    This puts me at odds with almost everyone, including everyone I know in Finland, but it is my assessment of the situation. There is too much familiarity bias and continuity bias which fuels the assumption that Harris would preserve NATO and the European security arrangement.
    With Trump there is the possibility of an updated solution to the security question, there is a risk that this fails, but the current direction of travel seems to lead to failure anyway.
    I have this view even accepting that Trump is a significant threat to democracy itself. But I was influenced a lot by Niall Ferguson's recent comments.

    No there isn’t - Trump will simply cut off the supply of arms to the Ukraine and Russia will take over. Then wait a few years to rebuild their supplies before moving on to the next part of “mother Russia” that was stolen from Moscow
    Which may include Finland.
    More the Baltics. Plus a nice big land corridor to Kaliningrad.
    Then Poland and East Germany, why stop there? Next stop Paris.
    Putin is not going to invade Poland, Germany and France. For a start he knows that will trigger nuclear war and destroy Russia forever

    You’re probably joking but it’s still good to keep Putin in perspective
    The timeline is elastic. Midway through Vance's third or fourth term
    Oh, don't be silly.
    10th term.
    Occasional humor is always welcome.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    edited November 5
    Certainly no one can accuse Harris of running a bad campaign . I think she’s done the best she could with the cards she was dealt.

    Barring the unfortunate jobs report which of course had mitigating factors Harris has had some luck .

    Gas prices have been falling in the run upto the election , Israel and Iran didn’t run out of control . Major fallout there could have seen gas prices spike and turned the attention more on Trumps alleged “ man of peace “.

    Trump ran the campaign we all expected , a hate fest from start to finish . Two things from the last week I think really hurt him. People think everything is baked in but his “ protect women whether they like it or not “ with his past history was a serious error .

    The hate rally and Puerto Rico joke has cost him support with Latinos especially in Pennsylvania where polling shows an increase in support of 9% for Harris .

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832

    Further proof that lawyers are the hardest working people in the world.

    US law firms in London demand 70-hour weeks — for £170,000 salaries

    Newly qualified solicitors report that they routinely finish after 10.30pm


    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/us-law-firms-in-london-demand-70-hour-weeks-for-170000-salaries-plhbbq5j3

    I'll do it ~full time for £85k :wink:

    (Full time being about half what these people are apparently working. Beats my current pay and a 35 hour week would be less time than my present full time job, notionally 37.5 hours but I do a chunk more.)
  • nico679 said:

    Certainly no one can accuse Harris of running a bad campaign . I think she’s done the best she could with the cards she was dealt.

    Barring the unfortunate jobs report which of course had mitigating factors Harris has had some luck .

    Gas prices have been falling in the run upto the election , Israel and Iran didn’t run out of control . Major fallout there could have seen gas prices spike and turned the attention more on Trumps alleged “ man of peace “.

    Trump ran the campaign we all expected , a hate fest from start to finish . Two things from the last week I think really hurt him. People think everything is baked in but his “ protect women whether they like it or not “ with his past history was a serious error .

    The hate rally and Puerto Rico joke has cost him support with Latinos especially in Pennsylvania where polling shows an increase in 9% for Harris .

    Hopefully the last nail in the coffin.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,927
    I’ve seen nothing in the stuff overnight that has changed my mind that this will be a Harris win, with Trump taking NV and AZ and Harris the rest.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,936
    Scott_xP said:

    @KateEMcCann

    NEW: Chris Philp is the shadow Home Secretary

    Three cheers from Labour HQ then.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,082
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    Re Georgia, and the view that more women out is a positive for Harris. It is worth remembering that Georgia was the site of a particularly high-profile case of an illegal immigrant killing a female student and one that generated a lot of anger.

    It might not be abortion that is driving these female voters out.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/will-laken-rileys-murder-tip-georgia

    Yes there’s been a lot of commentary on the Republican side about Laken Riley, and sadly a number of other similar cases that have been mentioned at rallies.

    Here’s Megyn Kelly at Trump’s rally last night, endorsing Trump and mentioning both the sad cases of murder and sexual assault by illegals, but also the controversial issue of women’s sports which might also drive turnout among younger women. It’s not necessarily just abortion behind the differential female turnout. https://x.com/megynkellyshow/status/1853643950512316882
    But if ALL the polling can agree on one thing this election, it is that there is a significant pro-Harris slant by women voters. Both in enthusiams and actual voting intention.

    And if you want a demonstration of that energy - just look at the votes ALREADY cast in Georgia.

    "The polls" have Georgia either too close to call or call it for Trump. Bullshit, I say.

    Here's the maths to support my contention that Harris wins Georgia handily. Before today's voting, she already has. It requires only two data points: the actual votes cast as per the official Georgia website - and the latest and last ABC voting intention poll on the split in how men and women will vote.

    "The final ABC News/Ipsos poll before Election Day, released on Sunday, found the gender gap among all likely voters to be 16 points. Harris had a 11-point advantage among women, 53% to 42%, while Trump had a 5-point advantage among men, 50% to 45%."

    I make no apology for reposting this. It's a betting site. The data is telling us the result, as 56% of the electorate have already voted. Absent a huge surge in voting, there's only 10% or so going to vote today in Georgia.

    So here are the likely votes cast already in Georgia, as best we can tell.

    Using the latest ABC gender splits, Harris leads by 11% in the 56% of female votes we know have been cast.

    ABC says Trump leads by 5% in that 43.8% of male votes we know have been cast.

    2.257 million women have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 55.5 = 1.252m female Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 44.5 = 1.004m Republican votes cast

    1.765 million men have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 47.5 = 0.838m male Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 52.5 = 0.926m male Republican votes cast

    Democrat total votes cast: 1.252 + 0.838 = 2.090 million
    Republican total votes cast 1.004 + 0.926 = 1.930 million

    So ABC polling on the gender split says there is a 160,000 Dem firewall after 56% of the electorate have already early voted.

    Reminder: Biden won Georgia in 2020 by just 11,779 votes

    And in case you think it's just Georgia, that's a fluke - it's not:

    Gender split in Pennsylvania is again huge in early voting. As of November 1st:

    "More than 1.6 million commonwealth voters have cast early mail-in ballots for the Nov. 5 presidential election. An Inquirer analysis of early ballot returns found that women composed 56% of the early mail-ins, with men trailing at 43%, according to voting data obtained from the Pennsylvania Department of State this week."

    https://www.inquirer.com/news/early-voting-women-seniors-pennsylvania-20241101.html

    The latest figures are 1.77m early votes, but that 56-43 margin is still there.

    A 13% split. If we again take the last ABC split of women voters favouring Harris by 11%, that is another huge firewall banked by Harris.

    I'm calling it at....4.12 Eastern Time on the 5th November:

    KAMALA HARRIS WILL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.


    In 2020 early voters tended to be Democrats while male Trump voters were more likely to vote on the day. I wouldn't read too much into it
    I'm also not sure we can read too much into comparing early voters with 2020, which was a bit sui generis in terms of voter behaviour because of covid.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,970
    nico679 said:

    Certainly no one can accuse Harris of running a bad campaign . I think she’s done the best she could with the cards she was dealt.

    Barring the unfortunate jobs report which of course had mitigating factors Harris has had some luck .

    Gas prices have been falling in the run upto the election , Israel and Iran didn’t run out of control . Major fallout there could have seen gas prices spike and turned the attention more on Trumps alleged “ man of peace “.

    Trump ran the campaign we all expected , a hate fest from start to finish . Two things from the last week I think really hurt him. People think everything is baked in but his “ protect women whether they like it or not “ with his past history was a serious error .

    The hate rally and Puerto Rico joke has cost him support with Latinos especially in Pennsylvania where polling shows an increase in support of 9% for Harris .

    It was his Sheffield...

    Not a surprise the late breakers have gone for Major Harris.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,680
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    Re Georgia, and the view that more women out is a positive for Harris. It is worth remembering that Georgia was the site of a particularly high-profile case of an illegal immigrant killing a female student and one that generated a lot of anger.

    It might not be abortion that is driving these female voters out.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/will-laken-rileys-murder-tip-georgia

    Yes there’s been a lot of commentary on the Republican side about Laken Riley, and sadly a number of other similar cases that have been mentioned at rallies.

    Here’s Megyn Kelly at Trump’s rally last night, endorsing Trump and mentioning both the sad cases of murder and sexual assault by illegals, but also the controversial issue of women’s sports which might also drive turnout among younger women. It’s not necessarily just abortion behind the differential female turnout. https://x.com/megynkellyshow/status/1853643950512316882
    But if ALL the polling can agree on one thing this election, it is that there is a significant pro-Harris slant by women voters. Both in enthusiams and actual voting intention.

    And if you want a demonstration of that energy - just look at the votes ALREADY cast in Georgia.

    "The polls" have Georgia either too close to call or call it for Trump. Bullshit, I say.

    Here's the maths to support my contention that Harris wins Georgia handily. Before today's voting, she already has. It requires only two data points: the actual votes cast as per the official Georgia website - and the latest and last ABC voting intention poll on the split in how men and women will vote.

    "The final ABC News/Ipsos poll before Election Day, released on Sunday, found the gender gap among all likely voters to be 16 points. Harris had a 11-point advantage among women, 53% to 42%, while Trump had a 5-point advantage among men, 50% to 45%."

    I make no apology for reposting this. It's a betting site. The data is telling us the result, as 56% of the electorate have already voted. Absent a huge surge in voting, there's only 10% or so going to vote today in Georgia.

    So here are the likely votes cast already in Georgia, as best we can tell.

    Using the latest ABC gender splits, Harris leads by 11% in the 56% of female votes we know have been cast.

    ABC says Trump leads by 5% in that 43.8% of male votes we know have been cast.

    2.257 million women have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 55.5 = 1.252m female Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 44.5 = 1.004m Republican votes cast

    1.765 million men have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 47.5 = 0.838m male Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 52.5 = 0.926m male Republican votes cast

    Democrat total votes cast: 1.252 + 0.838 = 2.090 million
    Republican total votes cast 1.004 + 0.926 = 1.930 million

    So ABC polling on the gender split says there is a 160,000 Dem firewall after 56% of the electorate have already early voted.

    Reminder: Biden won Georgia in 2020 by just 11,779 votes

    And in case you think it's just Georgia, that's a fluke - it's not:

    Gender split in Pennsylvania is again huge in early voting. As of November 1st:

    "More than 1.6 million commonwealth voters have cast early mail-in ballots for the Nov. 5 presidential election. An Inquirer analysis of early ballot returns found that women composed 56% of the early mail-ins, with men trailing at 43%, according to voting data obtained from the Pennsylvania Department of State this week."

    https://www.inquirer.com/news/early-voting-women-seniors-pennsylvania-20241101.html

    The latest figures are 1.77m early votes, but that 56-43 margin is still there.

    A 13% split. If we again take the last ABC split of women voters favouring Harris by 11%, that is another huge firewall banked by Harris.

    I'm calling it at....4.12 Eastern Time on the 5th November:

    KAMALA HARRIS WILL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.


    In 2020 early voters tended to be Democrats while male Trump voters were more likely to vote on the day. I wouldn't read too much into it
    That's because Trump discouraged early voters in 2020. He isn't now.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,970
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    Re Georgia, and the view that more women out is a positive for Harris. It is worth remembering that Georgia was the site of a particularly high-profile case of an illegal immigrant killing a female student and one that generated a lot of anger.

    It might not be abortion that is driving these female voters out.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/will-laken-rileys-murder-tip-georgia

    Yes there’s been a lot of commentary on the Republican side about Laken Riley, and sadly a number of other similar cases that have been mentioned at rallies.

    Here’s Megyn Kelly at Trump’s rally last night, endorsing Trump and mentioning both the sad cases of murder and sexual assault by illegals, but also the controversial issue of women’s sports which might also drive turnout among younger women. It’s not necessarily just abortion behind the differential female turnout. https://x.com/megynkellyshow/status/1853643950512316882
    But if ALL the polling can agree on one thing this election, it is that there is a significant pro-Harris slant by women voters. Both in enthusiams and actual voting intention.

    And if you want a demonstration of that energy - just look at the votes ALREADY cast in Georgia.

    "The polls" have Georgia either too close to call or call it for Trump. Bullshit, I say.

    Here's the maths to support my contention that Harris wins Georgia handily. Before today's voting, she already has. It requires only two data points: the actual votes cast as per the official Georgia website - and the latest and last ABC voting intention poll on the split in how men and women will vote.

    "The final ABC News/Ipsos poll before Election Day, released on Sunday, found the gender gap among all likely voters to be 16 points. Harris had a 11-point advantage among women, 53% to 42%, while Trump had a 5-point advantage among men, 50% to 45%."

    I make no apology for reposting this. It's a betting site. The data is telling us the result, as 56% of the electorate have already voted. Absent a huge surge in voting, there's only 10% or so going to vote today in Georgia.

    So here are the likely votes cast already in Georgia, as best we can tell.

    Using the latest ABC gender splits, Harris leads by 11% in the 56% of female votes we know have been cast.

    ABC says Trump leads by 5% in that 43.8% of male votes we know have been cast.

    2.257 million women have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 55.5 = 1.252m female Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 44.5 = 1.004m Republican votes cast

    1.765 million men have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 47.5 = 0.838m male Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 52.5 = 0.926m male Republican votes cast

    Democrat total votes cast: 1.252 + 0.838 = 2.090 million
    Republican total votes cast 1.004 + 0.926 = 1.930 million

    So ABC polling on the gender split says there is a 160,000 Dem firewall after 56% of the electorate have already early voted.

    Reminder: Biden won Georgia in 2020 by just 11,779 votes

    And in case you think it's just Georgia, that's a fluke - it's not:

    Gender split in Pennsylvania is again huge in early voting. As of November 1st:

    "More than 1.6 million commonwealth voters have cast early mail-in ballots for the Nov. 5 presidential election. An Inquirer analysis of early ballot returns found that women composed 56% of the early mail-ins, with men trailing at 43%, according to voting data obtained from the Pennsylvania Department of State this week."

    https://www.inquirer.com/news/early-voting-women-seniors-pennsylvania-20241101.html

    The latest figures are 1.77m early votes, but that 56-43 margin is still there.

    A 13% split. If we again take the last ABC split of women voters favouring Harris by 11%, that is another huge firewall banked by Harris.

    I'm calling it at....4.12 Eastern Time on the 5th November:

    KAMALA HARRIS WILL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.


    In 2020 early voters tended to be Democrats while male Trump voters were more likely to vote on the day. I wouldn't read too much into it
    Not in these numbers they didn't...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    edited November 5
    Fishing said:

    eek said:

    FWIW: All five of Telegraph's analysts predict Trump win this morning, although saying will be close.

    That's the Telegraph - it's wishcasting...
    It's also not really true, at least if you read what they right rather than looking at the silly graphics. Rozina Sabur says she has no idea. Tim Stanley and Tony Diver don't really answer the question directly. The other two go for Trump, but hedge.

    So, basically, they're as clueless as everybody else.
    I think we are ahead of the game here compared to them.

    For those of us tending Harris we have data that shows the voting demographics are skewing female and that female voters are tending Harris...

    Now that may be wishcasting by us but it at least we have figures that back it up and anecdotes that seem to say the same thing...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,936

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    Re Georgia, and the view that more women out is a positive for Harris. It is worth remembering that Georgia was the site of a particularly high-profile case of an illegal immigrant killing a female student and one that generated a lot of anger.

    It might not be abortion that is driving these female voters out.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/will-laken-rileys-murder-tip-georgia

    Yes there’s been a lot of commentary on the Republican side about Laken Riley, and sadly a number of other similar cases that have been mentioned at rallies.

    Here’s Megyn Kelly at Trump’s rally last night, endorsing Trump and mentioning both the sad cases of murder and sexual assault by illegals, but also the controversial issue of women’s sports which might also drive turnout among younger women. It’s not necessarily just abortion behind the differential female turnout. https://x.com/megynkellyshow/status/1853643950512316882
    But if ALL the polling can agree on one thing this election, it is that there is a significant pro-Harris slant by women voters. Both in enthusiams and actual voting intention.

    And if you want a demonstration of that energy - just look at the votes ALREADY cast in Georgia.

    "The polls" have Georgia either too close to call or call it for Trump. Bullshit, I say.

    Here's the maths to support my contention that Harris wins Georgia handily. Before today's voting, she already has. It requires only two data points: the actual votes cast as per the official Georgia website - and the latest and last ABC voting intention poll on the split in how men and women will vote.

    "The final ABC News/Ipsos poll before Election Day, released on Sunday, found the gender gap among all likely voters to be 16 points. Harris had a 11-point advantage among women, 53% to 42%, while Trump had a 5-point advantage among men, 50% to 45%."

    I make no apology for reposting this. It's a betting site. The data is telling us the result, as 56% of the electorate have already voted. Absent a huge surge in voting, there's only 10% or so going to vote today in Georgia.

    So here are the likely votes cast already in Georgia, as best we can tell.

    Using the latest ABC gender splits, Harris leads by 11% in the 56% of female votes we know have been cast.

    ABC says Trump leads by 5% in that 43.8% of male votes we know have been cast.

    2.257 million women have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 55.5 = 1.252m female Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 44.5 = 1.004m Republican votes cast

    1.765 million men have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 47.5 = 0.838m male Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 52.5 = 0.926m male Republican votes cast

    Democrat total votes cast: 1.252 + 0.838 = 2.090 million
    Republican total votes cast 1.004 + 0.926 = 1.930 million

    So ABC polling on the gender split says there is a 160,000 Dem firewall after 56% of the electorate have already early voted.

    Reminder: Biden won Georgia in 2020 by just 11,779 votes

    And in case you think it's just Georgia, that's a fluke - it's not:

    Gender split in Pennsylvania is again huge in early voting. As of November 1st:

    "More than 1.6 million commonwealth voters have cast early mail-in ballots for the Nov. 5 presidential election. An Inquirer analysis of early ballot returns found that women composed 56% of the early mail-ins, with men trailing at 43%, according to voting data obtained from the Pennsylvania Department of State this week."

    https://www.inquirer.com/news/early-voting-women-seniors-pennsylvania-20241101.html

    The latest figures are 1.77m early votes, but that 56-43 margin is still there.

    A 13% split. If we again take the last ABC split of women voters favouring Harris by 11%, that is another huge firewall banked by Harris.

    I'm calling it at....4.12 Eastern Time on the 5th November:

    KAMALA HARRIS WILL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.


    Not if SCOTUS have their way. How many states can they overturn without anyone noticing?
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 994

    FWIW: All five of Telegraph's analysts predict Trump win this morning, although saying will be close.

    That is most reassuring after their 99% failure rate on Budget predictions.
    Though Camilla Tominey is quoted as saying "This time last week I was convinced Trump was going to win. Since I've landed here I am increasingly thinking he might not"

    Camilla Tominey famously thought that Rishi's campaign was going well.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    Icarus said:

    FWIW: All five of Telegraph's analysts predict Trump win this morning, although saying will be close.

    That is most reassuring after their 99% failure rate on Budget predictions.
    Though Camilla Tominey is quoted as saying "This time last week I was convinced Trump was going to win. Since I've landed here I am increasingly thinking he might not"

    Camilla Tominey famously thought that Rishi's campaign was going well.
    Camilla effortlessly makes the case against private education.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,006
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    My analysis of the election has changed. If I had a vote, it would be for Trump.
    The defining issue for me is Ukraine. I don't think that the democrats can solve this and I think they will end up gradually losing the war in Ukraine, as the conflict continues on its current trajectory with no apparent strategic direction. This could cause the rapid collapse of more countries, and significant consequential damage.
    My gut feeling is that Trump would be more likely to find a strategic solution to the issue of conflict with Russia.
    This puts me at odds with almost everyone, including everyone I know in Finland, but it is my assessment of the situation. There is too much familiarity bias and continuity bias which fuels the assumption that Harris would preserve NATO and the European security arrangement.
    With Trump there is the possibility of an updated solution to the security question, there is a risk that this fails, but the current direction of travel seems to lead to failure anyway.
    I have this view even accepting that Trump is a significant threat to democracy itself. But I was influenced a lot by Niall Ferguson's recent comments.

    No there isn’t - Trump will simply cut off the supply of arms to the Ukraine and Russia will take over. Then wait a few years to rebuild their supplies before moving on to the next part of “mother Russia” that was stolen from Moscow
    Which may include Finland.
    More the Baltics. Plus a nice big land corridor to Kaliningrad.
    Then Poland and East Germany, why stop there? Next stop Paris.
    Putin is not going to invade Poland, Germany and France. For a start he knows that will trigger nuclear war and destroy Russia forever

    You’re probably joking but it’s still good to keep Putin in perspective
    Would it though? Against France maybe as it has its own independent nuclear weapons. The others don't though and if Trump pulled out of NATO would he even send troops to defend them if Putin invaded let alone US nukes?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,970
    Scott_xP said:

    If Trump loses I want to read all the inside campaign stories

    If he wins, it will be all "But you can't say THAT!!"

    "Oh really? Watch me..."
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,462

    Eabhal said:

    Using F-word at work is no sacking offence in the north, rules judge

    Delivery driver wins case for unfair dismissal despite calling female colleague a “f***ing mong” during an argument about her weight


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/using-f-word-at-work-is-no-sacking-offence-in-the-north-rules-judge-p7hnkz927

    I think the second word is far more offensive.
    During a match my son's U15 football team was playing against a team from Orpington, one of the opposition players tried to punch the ref and called him a "sp*stic c*nt". I think everyone found the first word far more offensive than the second.
    Some lady people find the c-word particularly offensive as an insult because of the whole, you know, down there.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,006
    Chris Philp Shadow Home Secretary
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,970

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    Re Georgia, and the view that more women out is a positive for Harris. It is worth remembering that Georgia was the site of a particularly high-profile case of an illegal immigrant killing a female student and one that generated a lot of anger.

    It might not be abortion that is driving these female voters out.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/will-laken-rileys-murder-tip-georgia

    Yes there’s been a lot of commentary on the Republican side about Laken Riley, and sadly a number of other similar cases that have been mentioned at rallies.

    Here’s Megyn Kelly at Trump’s rally last night, endorsing Trump and mentioning both the sad cases of murder and sexual assault by illegals, but also the controversial issue of women’s sports which might also drive turnout among younger women. It’s not necessarily just abortion behind the differential female turnout. https://x.com/megynkellyshow/status/1853643950512316882
    But if ALL the polling can agree on one thing this election, it is that there is a significant pro-Harris slant by women voters. Both in enthusiams and actual voting intention.

    And if you want a demonstration of that energy - just look at the votes ALREADY cast in Georgia.

    "The polls" have Georgia either too close to call or call it for Trump. Bullshit, I say.

    Here's the maths to support my contention that Harris wins Georgia handily. Before today's voting, she already has. It requires only two data points: the actual votes cast as per the official Georgia website - and the latest and last ABC voting intention poll on the split in how men and women will vote.

    "The final ABC News/Ipsos poll before Election Day, released on Sunday, found the gender gap among all likely voters to be 16 points. Harris had a 11-point advantage among women, 53% to 42%, while Trump had a 5-point advantage among men, 50% to 45%."

    I make no apology for reposting this. It's a betting site. The data is telling us the result, as 56% of the electorate have already voted. Absent a huge surge in voting, there's only 10% or so going to vote today in Georgia.

    So here are the likely votes cast already in Georgia, as best we can tell.

    Using the latest ABC gender splits, Harris leads by 11% in the 56% of female votes we know have been cast.

    ABC says Trump leads by 5% in that 43.8% of male votes we know have been cast.

    2.257 million women have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 55.5 = 1.252m female Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 44.5 = 1.004m Republican votes cast

    1.765 million men have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 47.5 = 0.838m male Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 52.5 = 0.926m male Republican votes cast

    Democrat total votes cast: 1.252 + 0.838 = 2.090 million
    Republican total votes cast 1.004 + 0.926 = 1.930 million

    So ABC polling on the gender split says there is a 160,000 Dem firewall after 56% of the electorate have already early voted.

    Reminder: Biden won Georgia in 2020 by just 11,779 votes

    And in case you think it's just Georgia, that's a fluke - it's not:

    Gender split in Pennsylvania is again huge in early voting. As of November 1st:

    "More than 1.6 million commonwealth voters have cast early mail-in ballots for the Nov. 5 presidential election. An Inquirer analysis of early ballot returns found that women composed 56% of the early mail-ins, with men trailing at 43%, according to voting data obtained from the Pennsylvania Department of State this week."

    https://www.inquirer.com/news/early-voting-women-seniors-pennsylvania-20241101.html

    The latest figures are 1.77m early votes, but that 56-43 margin is still there.

    A 13% split. If we again take the last ABC split of women voters favouring Harris by 11%, that is another huge firewall banked by Harris.

    I'm calling it at....4.12 Eastern Time on the 5th November:

    KAMALA HARRIS WILL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.


    Not if SCOTUS have their way. How many states can they overturn without anyone noticing?
    None. They won't be close enough for them to get their "hanging chads" moment this time.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,936
    Nick Ferrari seems content that immigration and the economy win it for Trump.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    Scott_xP said:

    @KateEMcCann

    NEW: Chris Philp is the shadow Home Secretary

    who?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    In terms of national polling Harris has leads of between 1 and 4 points from all those released in the last few days barring the one Atlas Intel poll which has serious question marks over it .

    I think the TIPP will do a final release later this morning but that’s another with a clear Trump agenda .
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    Re Georgia, and the view that more women out is a positive for Harris. It is worth remembering that Georgia was the site of a particularly high-profile case of an illegal immigrant killing a female student and one that generated a lot of anger.

    It might not be abortion that is driving these female voters out.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/will-laken-rileys-murder-tip-georgia

    Yes there’s been a lot of commentary on the Republican side about Laken Riley, and sadly a number of other similar cases that have been mentioned at rallies.

    Here’s Megyn Kelly at Trump’s rally last night, endorsing Trump and mentioning both the sad cases of murder and sexual assault by illegals, but also the controversial issue of women’s sports which might also drive turnout among younger women. It’s not necessarily just abortion behind the differential female turnout. https://x.com/megynkellyshow/status/1853643950512316882
    But if ALL the polling can agree on one thing this election, it is that there is a significant pro-Harris slant by women voters. Both in enthusiams and actual voting intention.

    And if you want a demonstration of that energy - just look at the votes ALREADY cast in Georgia.

    "The polls" have Georgia either too close to call or call it for Trump. Bullshit, I say.

    Here's the maths to support my contention that Harris wins Georgia handily. Before today's voting, she already has. It requires only two data points: the actual votes cast as per the official Georgia website - and the latest and last ABC voting intention poll on the split in how men and women will vote.

    "The final ABC News/Ipsos poll before Election Day, released on Sunday, found the gender gap among all likely voters to be 16 points. Harris had a 11-point advantage among women, 53% to 42%, while Trump had a 5-point advantage among men, 50% to 45%."

    I make no apology for reposting this. It's a betting site. The data is telling us the result, as 56% of the electorate have already voted. Absent a huge surge in voting, there's only 10% or so going to vote today in Georgia.

    So here are the likely votes cast already in Georgia, as best we can tell.

    Using the latest ABC gender splits, Harris leads by 11% in the 56% of female votes we know have been cast.

    ABC says Trump leads by 5% in that 43.8% of male votes we know have been cast.

    2.257 million women have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 55.5 = 1.252m female Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 44.5 = 1.004m Republican votes cast

    1.765 million men have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 47.5 = 0.838m male Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 52.5 = 0.926m male Republican votes cast

    Democrat total votes cast: 1.252 + 0.838 = 2.090 million
    Republican total votes cast 1.004 + 0.926 = 1.930 million

    So ABC polling on the gender split says there is a 160,000 Dem firewall after 56% of the electorate have already early voted.

    Reminder: Biden won Georgia in 2020 by just 11,779 votes

    And in case you think it's just Georgia, that's a fluke - it's not:

    Gender split in Pennsylvania is again huge in early voting. As of November 1st:

    "More than 1.6 million commonwealth voters have cast early mail-in ballots for the Nov. 5 presidential election. An Inquirer analysis of early ballot returns found that women composed 56% of the early mail-ins, with men trailing at 43%, according to voting data obtained from the Pennsylvania Department of State this week."

    https://www.inquirer.com/news/early-voting-women-seniors-pennsylvania-20241101.html

    The latest figures are 1.77m early votes, but that 56-43 margin is still there.

    A 13% split. If we again take the last ABC split of women voters favouring Harris by 11%, that is another huge firewall banked by Harris.

    I'm calling it at....4.12 Eastern Time on the 5th November:

    KAMALA HARRIS WILL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.


    Not if SCOTUS have their way. How many states can they overturn without anyone noticing?
    None. They won't be close enough for them to get their "hanging chads" moment this time.
    And this time round - no-one is going to accept a partial recount...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,419
    edited November 5
    theProle said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Using F-word at work is no sacking offence in the north, rules judge

    Delivery driver wins case for unfair dismissal despite calling female colleague a “f***ing mong” during an argument about her weight


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/using-f-word-at-work-is-no-sacking-offence-in-the-north-rules-judge-p7hnkz927

    It's worth reading the tribunal https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/672346d63ce5634f5f6ef5b0/Mr_R_Ogden_v_Booker_Limited_-_2400482_2024_-_Reserved.pdf

    Yes what was said was wrong but Booker completely screwed up everything and seriously pi**ed off the judge to the extent that I think he was inclined to find in the delivery drivers favour.



    one bit that I find interesting from the tribunal

    .As the term of abuse is not one relating to a protected characteristic, the
    case should be viewed in that light in my assessment.


    I would have thought 70's slang terms for a disability was a protected characteristic unless disabilities are not protected..
    He goes into that a bit further up in the document. Effectively he says although the term originally referenced a protected characteristic, it is so commonly used in parts of the North to have lost that direct connection - hence he concludes it didn't really relate to a protected characteristic.
    A bit like ****ing idiot today presumably - only not quite so distant from its roots.

    Interesting. Booker sure messed up before and after the event, not just in the runup to the tribunal, though that latter includes a prize marrow-size specimen:

    "It is unclear why the respondent’s
    representatives (from a large national firm) had not notified the tribunal as
    to there being a bundle of 313 pages (a substantial number of which were
    meeting notes relevant to the case); and 30 pages of fairly dense witness
    statements. The bundle may have been sent in good time but was not
    available to me until 9am."

    One phrase that is missing is 'Human Resources'. Where I used to work, any disciplinary action would mean the automatic involvement of HR and at least the avoidance of basic errors of procedure.

    I also note the effective absence of training of the kind so decried by some on here - eg. when we were discussing universities - against bullying and pawing one's colleagues/staff and so on. One key reason for which is to knock away the excuse that "Nobody told me it was wrong."
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Cookie said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    My analysis of the election has changed. If I had a vote, it would be for Trump.
    The defining issue for me is Ukraine. I don't think that the democrats can solve this and I think they will end up gradually losing the war in Ukraine, as the conflict continues on its current trajectory with no apparent strategic direction. This could cause the rapid collapse of more countries, and significant consequential damage.
    My gut feeling is that Trump would be more likely to find a strategic solution to the issue of conflict with Russia.
    This puts me at odds with almost everyone, including everyone I know in Finland, but it is my assessment of the situation. There is too much familiarity bias and continuity bias which fuels the assumption that Harris would preserve NATO and the European security arrangement.
    With Trump there is the possibility of an updated solution to the security question, there is a risk that this fails, but the current direction of travel seems to lead to failure anyway.
    I have this view even accepting that Trump is a significant threat to democracy itself. But I was influenced a lot by Niall Ferguson's recent comments.

    I hear you. For this and his antiWoke credentials I can see the appeal of Trump…

    … however for me the many downsides are just too much. His insane economic policies. His chaotic attacks on the western alliance. His likely revenge on Labour Britain (which will be fun to watch as it cripples Starmer but probably bad for UK PLC)

    So I hope Trump loses
    Here’s the opposite argument, eloquently put by an American Spectator columnist.

    https://x.com/bridgetphetasy/status/1852881275146703149

    In her mind the wokery and immigration outweigh the negatives. She says she’s not really voting *for* Trump, more like she’s voting against the Left.
    Hmmm. That is very persuasive

    I entirely agree with her analysis: ultimately the greatest, truly civilisational danger comes from the Left, the Dems, the Woke, Labour, all of these repulsive traitors

    However I return to my ice floe/polar bear analogy. You are trapped on an ice floe which is slowly heading into warmer waters, in time this will melt and you will drown, for sure - that is the awful drift into Woke madness and darkness

    However you are ALSO sharing the ice floe with a hungry polar bear. Trump is the polar bear and your vote is a gun

    As the polar bear will probably kill you in the next few minutes, not days or weeks, you have to shoot the polar bear first and THEN think about the whole melting ice floe thing
    That is a good analogy but I don't quite see the threat in those terms. It is more like it there is a one in 3 chance that you will be killed immeditately vs near complete certainty that it will happen after a longer wait.
    Maybe in the analogy, all you have to kill the polar bear with is a massive fuck-off flamethrower, which significantly accelerates the melting of the ice flow. So you can address the immediate danger but only at the cost of significantly accelerating the long term danger.
    Does Elon Musk still sell massive flamethrowers, or do we need an even bigger one like Mythbusters did back in the day?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHB3JuID-rs
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,016

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    Re Georgia, and the view that more women out is a positive for Harris. It is worth remembering that Georgia was the site of a particularly high-profile case of an illegal immigrant killing a female student and one that generated a lot of anger.

    It might not be abortion that is driving these female voters out.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/will-laken-rileys-murder-tip-georgia

    Yes there’s been a lot of commentary on the Republican side about Laken Riley, and sadly a number of other similar cases that have been mentioned at rallies.

    Here’s Megyn Kelly at Trump’s rally last night, endorsing Trump and mentioning both the sad cases of murder and sexual assault by illegals, but also the controversial issue of women’s sports which might also drive turnout among younger women. It’s not necessarily just abortion behind the differential female turnout. https://x.com/megynkellyshow/status/1853643950512316882
    But if ALL the polling can agree on one thing this election, it is that there is a significant pro-Harris slant by women voters. Both in enthusiams and actual voting intention.

    And if you want a demonstration of that energy - just look at the votes ALREADY cast in Georgia.

    "The polls" have Georgia either too close to call or call it for Trump. Bullshit, I say.

    Here's the maths to support my contention that Harris wins Georgia handily. Before today's voting, she already has. It requires only two data points: the actual votes cast as per the official Georgia website - and the latest and last ABC voting intention poll on the split in how men and women will vote.

    "The final ABC News/Ipsos poll before Election Day, released on Sunday, found the gender gap among all likely voters to be 16 points. Harris had a 11-point advantage among women, 53% to 42%, while Trump had a 5-point advantage among men, 50% to 45%."

    I make no apology for reposting this. It's a betting site. The data is telling us the result, as 56% of the electorate have already voted. Absent a huge surge in voting, there's only 10% or so going to vote today in Georgia.

    So here are the likely votes cast already in Georgia, as best we can tell.

    Using the latest ABC gender splits, Harris leads by 11% in the 56% of female votes we know have been cast.

    ABC says Trump leads by 5% in that 43.8% of male votes we know have been cast.

    2.257 million women have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 55.5 = 1.252m female Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 44.5 = 1.004m Republican votes cast

    1.765 million men have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 47.5 = 0.838m male Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 52.5 = 0.926m male Republican votes cast

    Democrat total votes cast: 1.252 + 0.838 = 2.090 million
    Republican total votes cast 1.004 + 0.926 = 1.930 million

    So ABC polling on the gender split says there is a 160,000 Dem firewall after 56% of the electorate have already early voted.

    Reminder: Biden won Georgia in 2020 by just 11,779 votes

    And in case you think it's just Georgia, that's a fluke - it's not:

    Gender split in Pennsylvania is again huge in early voting. As of November 1st:

    "More than 1.6 million commonwealth voters have cast early mail-in ballots for the Nov. 5 presidential election. An Inquirer analysis of early ballot returns found that women composed 56% of the early mail-ins, with men trailing at 43%, according to voting data obtained from the Pennsylvania Department of State this week."

    https://www.inquirer.com/news/early-voting-women-seniors-pennsylvania-20241101.html

    The latest figures are 1.77m early votes, but that 56-43 margin is still there.

    A 13% split. If we again take the last ABC split of women voters favouring Harris by 11%, that is another huge firewall banked by Harris.

    I'm calling it at....4.12 Eastern Time on the 5th November:

    KAMALA HARRIS WILL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.


    Not if SCOTUS have their way. How many states can they overturn without anyone noticing?
    Zero. I see paranoia is ramping up today...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    edited November 5
    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    Re Georgia, and the view that more women out is a positive for Harris. It is worth remembering that Georgia was the site of a particularly high-profile case of an illegal immigrant killing a female student and one that generated a lot of anger.

    It might not be abortion that is driving these female voters out.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/will-laken-rileys-murder-tip-georgia

    Yes there’s been a lot of commentary on the Republican side about Laken Riley, and sadly a number of other similar cases that have been mentioned at rallies.

    Here’s Megyn Kelly at Trump’s rally last night, endorsing Trump and mentioning both the sad cases of murder and sexual assault by illegals, but also the controversial issue of women’s sports which might also drive turnout among younger women. It’s not necessarily just abortion behind the differential female turnout. https://x.com/megynkellyshow/status/1853643950512316882
    But if ALL the polling can agree on one thing this election, it is that there is a significant pro-Harris slant by women voters. Both in enthusiams and actual voting intention.

    And if you want a demonstration of that energy - just look at the votes ALREADY cast in Georgia.

    "The polls" have Georgia either too close to call or call it for Trump. Bullshit, I say.

    Here's the maths to support my contention that Harris wins Georgia handily. Before today's voting, she already has. It requires only two data points: the actual votes cast as per the official Georgia website - and the latest and last ABC voting intention poll on the split in how men and women will vote.

    "The final ABC News/Ipsos poll before Election Day, released on Sunday, found the gender gap among all likely voters to be 16 points. Harris had a 11-point advantage among women, 53% to 42%, while Trump had a 5-point advantage among men, 50% to 45%."

    I make no apology for reposting this. It's a betting site. The data is telling us the result, as 56% of the electorate have already voted. Absent a huge surge in voting, there's only 10% or so going to vote today in Georgia.

    So here are the likely votes cast already in Georgia, as best we can tell.

    Using the latest ABC gender splits, Harris leads by 11% in the 56% of female votes we know have been cast.

    ABC says Trump leads by 5% in that 43.8% of male votes we know have been cast.

    2.257 million women have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 55.5 = 1.252m female Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 44.5 = 1.004m Republican votes cast

    1.765 million men have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 47.5 = 0.838m male Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 52.5 = 0.926m male Republican votes cast

    Democrat total votes cast: 1.252 + 0.838 = 2.090 million
    Republican total votes cast 1.004 + 0.926 = 1.930 million

    So ABC polling on the gender split says there is a 160,000 Dem firewall after 56% of the electorate have already early voted.

    Reminder: Biden won Georgia in 2020 by just 11,779 votes

    And in case you think it's just Georgia, that's a fluke - it's not:

    Gender split in Pennsylvania is again huge in early voting. As of November 1st:

    "More than 1.6 million commonwealth voters have cast early mail-in ballots for the Nov. 5 presidential election. An Inquirer analysis of early ballot returns found that women composed 56% of the early mail-ins, with men trailing at 43%, according to voting data obtained from the Pennsylvania Department of State this week."

    https://www.inquirer.com/news/early-voting-women-seniors-pennsylvania-20241101.html

    The latest figures are 1.77m early votes, but that 56-43 margin is still there.

    A 13% split. If we again take the last ABC split of women voters favouring Harris by 11%, that is another huge firewall banked by Harris.

    I'm calling it at....4.12 Eastern Time on the 5th November:

    KAMALA HARRIS WILL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.


    In 2020 early voters tended to be Democrats while male Trump voters were more likely to vote on the day. I wouldn't read too much into it
    That's because Trump discouraged early voters in 2020. He isn't now.
    Yes. GOP have put much more effort into the early vote and postal vote this year, which is to some extent reflects in the numbers. The question is are these voters who would otherwise have shown up today, or are they previous abstainers? Suspect the answer is somewhere in the middle!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,419
    edited November 5

    algarkirk said:

    Using F-word at work is no sacking offence in the north, rules judge

    Delivery driver wins case for unfair dismissal despite calling female colleague a “f***ing mong” during an argument about her weight


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/using-f-word-at-work-is-no-sacking-offence-in-the-north-rules-judge-p7hnkz927

    We live in two nations. From my north England perch (rural and industrial town) here are millions of people, of all ages, who would never use the traditional four letter words in public, including the great majority of older people and huge numbers of younger ones. There is a minority who use them a lot. In general the place I notice them most is in PB comments.
    Glasgow f*cking waves..
    Glaswegians have elevated swearing to an art form. I just re-read How Late it Was, How Late, and I remember when it won the Booker in 1994 eyebrows were raised over the prodigious amount of swearing that it captured. What a book, though.
    Yeah, Glasgowness was always an uncomfortable fit with the Booker. In an odd way Julia Neuberger’s outrage (How Late It Was is crap and a disgrace that it won) was a great tribute.

    Irvine Welsh on R4 having a cosy chat with Kirsty Young atm, cannae imagine Kelman ever succumbing to the Beeb’s siren song.
    Or indeed almost any memoir of life as an Other Rank in the British Army, or on the messdeck of HM Ships.

    I also mind that win. Very amused by the indignation of the establishment.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,462
    Scott_xP said:

    @MhariAurora
    BREAKING:
    Kemi Badenoch’s shadow cabinet has been announced ahead of its first meeting this morning…

    💷 Shadow Chancellor - Mel Stride
    🚔Shadow Home - Chris Philp
    🌍Shadow Foreign - Priti Patel
    🪖Shadow Defence - James Cartildge
    🏥Shadow Health - Ed Agar
    📚Shadow Education - Laura Trott
    🤝Shadow Business - Andrew Griffith
    🏠Shadow Housing - Kevin Hollinrake
    ⚖️Shadow Justice - Robert Jenrick
    💰Shadow Work & Pensions - Helen Whately
    💡Shadow Energy - Claire Coutinho
    📟Shadow Science & Tech - Alan Mak
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Shadow Scotland - Andrew Bowie
    🇬🇧 Shadow NI - Alex Burghart
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿Shadow Wales - Mims Davies
    🚂Shadow Transport - Gareth Bacon
    ♻️Shadow Environment - Victoria Atkins
    🎭Shadow Culture - Stuart Andrew

    We need their prices for next Conservative leader after the party has tired of Kemi.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    Scott_xP said:

    @MhariAurora
    BREAKING:
    Kemi Badenoch’s shadow cabinet has been announced ahead of its first meeting this morning…

    💷 Shadow Chancellor - Mel Stride
    🚔Shadow Home - Chris Philp
    🌍Shadow Foreign - Priti Patel
    🪖Shadow Defence - James Cartildge
    🏥Shadow Health - Ed Agar
    📚Shadow Education - Laura Trott
    🤝Shadow Business - Andrew Griffith
    🏠Shadow Housing - Kevin Hollinrake
    ⚖️Shadow Justice - Robert Jenrick
    💰Shadow Work & Pensions - Helen Whately
    💡Shadow Energy - Claire Coutinho
    📟Shadow Science & Tech - Alan Mak
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Shadow Scotland - Andrew Bowie
    🇬🇧 Shadow NI - Alex Burghart
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿Shadow Wales - Mims Davies
    🚂Shadow Transport - Gareth Bacon
    ♻️Shadow Environment - Victoria Atkins
    🎭Shadow Culture - Stuart Andrew

    Robin Walker must be pissed he lost his seat given she has gone for Trott and Stride in senior roles.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592

    Scott_xP said:

    @KateEMcCann

    NEW: Chris Philp is the shadow Home Secretary

    who?
    He was the Minister of State for Crime, Policing and Fire before the election - so someone who knows the brief.

    and I think once you go beyond the 6 candidates who stood for the leadership, Rishi and Hunt everyone else is going to be in the "who are they" department. The Tories have 120 MPs and many of the ones people know the name of lost their seats..
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,948
    @Sandpit as someone who enjoys your posts I have been reading your posts putting the other side of the argument re Trump but haven't seen you state that you support him.

    Can I ask, are you playing devil's advocate and trying to put the alternative arguments as to why he might win to balance the argument, which you do well, or do you also support him?

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,473
    That Shadow Cabinet in full:

    Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer: Mel Stride MP

    Shadow Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs: Dame Priti Patel MP

    Shadow Home Secretary: Chris Philp MP

    Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Shadow Secretary of State for Northern Ireland: Alex Burghart MP

    Shadow Secretary of State for Defence: James Cartlidge MP

    Shadow Secretary of State for Justice: Robert Jenrick MP

    Shadow Secretary of State for Education: Laura Trott MP

    Shadow Health and Social Care Secretary: Ed Argar MP

    Shadow Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities: Kevin Hollinrake MP

    Shadow Secretary of State for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs: Victoria Atkins MP

    Shadow Secretary of State for Business and Trade: Andrew Griffith MP

    Shadow Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero and Shadow Minister for Equalities: Claire Coutinho MP

    Shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions: Helen Whately MP

    Shadow Secretary of State for Transport: Gareth Bacon MP

    Shadow Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport: Stuart Andrew MP

    Shadow Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology: Alan Mak MP

    Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland and Shadow Minister of State for Energy and Net Zero: Andrew Bowie MP

    Shadow Secretary of State for Wales and Shadow Minister for Women: Mims Davies MP

    Opposition Chief Whip (Commons): Dame Rebecca Harris MP

    Shadow Leader of the House of Commons: Jesse Norman MP

    Shadow Leader of the House of Lords: Lord True

    Co-Chairmen of the Party: Nigel Huddleston MP & Lord Johnson

    Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury: Richard Fuller MP

    Also attending

    Parliamentary Private Secretary: Julia Lopez MP

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/nov/05/kemi-badenoch-shadow-cabinet-conservatives-robert-jenrick-priti-patel-uk-politics-live
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,927
    Nigelb said:

    FPT, 'raspberry' does indeed contain two 'r's.

    ChatGPT didn't say it contained only two.

    The question I posed was: "How many letter r's in the word raspberry?"

    It answered two.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,571
    nico679 said:

    Certainly no one can accuse Harris of running a bad campaign . I think she’s done the best she could with the cards she was dealt.

    Barring the unfortunate jobs report which of course had mitigating factors Harris has had some luck .

    Gas prices have been falling in the run upto the election , Israel and Iran didn’t run out of control . Major fallout there could have seen gas prices spike and turned the attention more on Trumps alleged “ man of peace “.

    Trump ran the campaign we all expected , a hate fest from start to finish . Two things from the last week I think really hurt him. People think everything is baked in but his “ protect women whether they like it or not “ with his past history was a serious error .

    The hate rally and Puerto Rico joke has cost him support with Latinos especially in Pennsylvania where polling shows an increase in support of 9% for Harris .

    I also think that Harris has it, though she fought a remarkably vague campaign, presumably deliberately - all about a fresh face rather than many concrete commitments. The consistent YouGov leaning to Trump is strange, and probably biased (in the sense that someone has felt it worth the relatively small sum to keep it that way).

    Full disclosure: I'm +207 if Harris wins, and -£75 if Trump wins.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,811

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    Re Georgia, and the view that more women out is a positive for Harris. It is worth remembering that Georgia was the site of a particularly high-profile case of an illegal immigrant killing a female student and one that generated a lot of anger.

    It might not be abortion that is driving these female voters out.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/will-laken-rileys-murder-tip-georgia

    Yes there’s been a lot of commentary on the Republican side about Laken Riley, and sadly a number of other similar cases that have been mentioned at rallies.

    Here’s Megyn Kelly at Trump’s rally last night, endorsing Trump and mentioning both the sad cases of murder and sexual assault by illegals, but also the controversial issue of women’s sports which might also drive turnout among younger women. It’s not necessarily just abortion behind the differential female turnout. https://x.com/megynkellyshow/status/1853643950512316882
    But if ALL the polling can agree on one thing this election, it is that there is a significant pro-Harris slant by women voters. Both in enthusiams and actual voting intention.

    And if you want a demonstration of that energy - just look at the votes ALREADY cast in Georgia.

    "The polls" have Georgia either too close to call or call it for Trump. Bullshit, I say.

    Here's the maths to support my contention that Harris wins Georgia handily. Before today's voting, she already has. It requires only two data points: the actual votes cast as per the official Georgia website - and the latest and last ABC voting intention poll on the split in how men and women will vote.

    "The final ABC News/Ipsos poll before Election Day, released on Sunday, found the gender gap among all likely voters to be 16 points. Harris had a 11-point advantage among women, 53% to 42%, while Trump had a 5-point advantage among men, 50% to 45%."

    I make no apology for reposting this. It's a betting site. The data is telling us the result, as 56% of the electorate have already voted. Absent a huge surge in voting, there's only 10% or so going to vote today in Georgia.

    So here are the likely votes cast already in Georgia, as best we can tell.

    Using the latest ABC gender splits, Harris leads by 11% in the 56% of female votes we know have been cast.

    ABC says Trump leads by 5% in that 43.8% of male votes we know have been cast.

    2.257 million women have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 55.5 = 1.252m female Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 44.5 = 1.004m Republican votes cast

    1.765 million men have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 47.5 = 0.838m male Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 52.5 = 0.926m male Republican votes cast

    Democrat total votes cast: 1.252 + 0.838 = 2.090 million
    Republican total votes cast 1.004 + 0.926 = 1.930 million

    So ABC polling on the gender split says there is a 160,000 Dem firewall after 56% of the electorate have already early voted.

    Reminder: Biden won Georgia in 2020 by just 11,779 votes

    And in case you think it's just Georgia, that's a fluke - it's not:

    Gender split in Pennsylvania is again huge in early voting. As of November 1st:

    "More than 1.6 million commonwealth voters have cast early mail-in ballots for the Nov. 5 presidential election. An Inquirer analysis of early ballot returns found that women composed 56% of the early mail-ins, with men trailing at 43%, according to voting data obtained from the Pennsylvania Department of State this week."

    https://www.inquirer.com/news/early-voting-women-seniors-pennsylvania-20241101.html

    The latest figures are 1.77m early votes, but that 56-43 margin is still there.

    A 13% split. If we again take the last ABC split of women voters favouring Harris by 11%, that is another huge firewall banked by Harris.

    I'm calling it at....4.12 Eastern Time on the 5th November:

    KAMALA HARRIS WILL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.


    Not if SCOTUS have their way. How many states can they overturn without anyone noticing?
    As many as they did in 2020.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    Odds on Bravermann heading off to Reform ?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547

    First of all a shout out to my old friends @Anabobazina and @BatteryCorrectHorse. And @viewcode. It is great to be back.

    Re the US election, naturally enough I think Trump will win but thoughts.

    Firstly, the clues are in plain sight. You only have to look at how Americans view the country, the Administration and the main concerns (economy / inflation, immigration etc) to see Trump will win. Especially when a lot of Americans view his Administration positively.

    Then look at what the early voting data. Ralston (who, BTW, I have a lot of sympathy for) has said the R lead in NV is unprecedented in recent times. Bitzer has said the same for NC. Rurals are showing up but not in urban areas vs 4 years ago. Black voters are not coming out as they need to for the Democrats. Republicans are ahead by nearly 200K in Arizona, by over 800K in Florida. Sure, in states like PA, the Democrats are ahead but their advantage is far less than in 2020.

    Then there is the mood music. @williamglenn was pillorised for reposting a tweet ( https://x.com/vickiefornyc/status/1853511569851982213) re a Democrat insider saying the election is lost but the same theme has played out several times in Politico and The Hill over the past 10 days. There are no similar articles on Trump.

    Re the three great hopes of the Democrats - women, young voters and Haley Republicans - think again.

    One of the most hilarious things has been an almost uniformly audience of men opining women only care about abortion. It is important but, in my conversations, two women 'specific' issues play well for Republicans - the "men in women's sports / locker rooms" argument and illegal immigrants committing crimes against women. Take a look at the New Yorker article on the Laken Riley murder and it is clear it will be a major factor in Georgia.

    Re young voters, let's see but I suspect the pandemic has changed many young voters' perceptions about how they see the world and - for young male voters at least - that may not be positive for the Democrats. Joe Rogan endorsing Trump is a major plus but Trump's outreach efforts have targeted young men specifically.

    Finally re Haley Republicans, they are not going to vote for Harris and Walz. To many Republicans, they stand for everything they detest. Harris' response on Proposition 36 in CA only reinforces what they thought. Look at the comments here about AZ and the McCain / Haley Republicans (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/arizona-presidential-election-harris-trump.html) - switchover will be minimal.

    So where do I think it will go? Essentially a repeat of 2016 - Trump to essentially win all the states he did plus also NV. I think he will get close in Virginia (couldn't resist that for Anabob) and maybe win NH and NM. I think the Senate will be something like 54-46. The House is a bit more uncertain.

    PS look out for NY - it won't go Trump but Hochul only beat Zeldin 54-46 in 2022

    Good luck all.

    PS yes, this is @MrEd

    I hope that's wrong, but it's an entirely sound analysis.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,006
    Places for Stride, Patel and Jenrick in Badenoch's Shadow Cabinet but not Tom Tugendhat. Cleverly also returns to the backbenches but by choice
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137

    nico679 said:

    Certainly no one can accuse Harris of running a bad campaign . I think she’s done the best she could with the cards she was dealt.

    Barring the unfortunate jobs report which of course had mitigating factors Harris has had some luck .

    Gas prices have been falling in the run upto the election , Israel and Iran didn’t run out of control . Major fallout there could have seen gas prices spike and turned the attention more on Trumps alleged “ man of peace “.

    Trump ran the campaign we all expected , a hate fest from start to finish . Two things from the last week I think really hurt him. People think everything is baked in but his “ protect women whether they like it or not “ with his past history was a serious error .

    The hate rally and Puerto Rico joke has cost him support with Latinos especially in Pennsylvania where polling shows an increase in support of 9% for Harris .

    I also think that Harris has it, though she fought a remarkably vague campaign, presumably deliberately - all about a fresh face rather than many concrete commitments. The consistent YouGov leaning to Trump is strange, and probably biased (in the sense that someone has felt it worth the relatively small sum to keep it that way).

    Full disclosure: I'm +207 if Harris wins, and -£75 if Trump wins.
    +£252 if Harris, -156 if Trump for me.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,165
    edited November 5
    We're coming up on re-election day!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W5aKwrsYIM
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,813
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    My analysis of the election has changed. If I had a vote, it would be for Trump.
    The defining issue for me is Ukraine. I don't think that the democrats can solve this and I think they will end up gradually losing the war in Ukraine, as the conflict continues on its current trajectory with no apparent strategic direction. This could cause the rapid collapse of more countries, and significant consequential damage.
    My gut feeling is that Trump would be more likely to find a strategic solution to the issue of conflict with Russia.
    This puts me at odds with almost everyone, including everyone I know in Finland, but it is my assessment of the situation. There is too much familiarity bias and continuity bias which fuels the assumption that Harris would preserve NATO and the European security arrangement.
    With Trump there is the possibility of an updated solution to the security question, there is a risk that this fails, but the current direction of travel seems to lead to failure anyway.
    I have this view even accepting that Trump is a significant threat to democracy itself. But I was influenced a lot by Niall Ferguson's recent comments.

    No there isn’t - Trump will simply cut off the supply of arms to the Ukraine and Russia will take over. Then wait a few years to rebuild their supplies before moving on to the next part of “mother Russia” that was stolen from Moscow
    Which may include Finland.
    More the Baltics. Plus a nice big land corridor to Kaliningrad.
    Then Poland and East Germany, why stop there? Next stop Paris.
    Putin is not going to invade Poland, Germany and France. For a start he knows that will trigger nuclear war and destroy Russia forever

    You’re probably joking but it’s still good to keep Putin in perspective
    Would it though? Against France maybe as it has its own independent nuclear weapons. The others don't though and if Trump pulled out of NATO would he even send troops to defend them if Putin invaded let alone US nukes?
    He'll go for the Baltics. Small, formerly part of USSR itself, and with largeish Russian minorities. NATO members, but he'll take risk, as he gains enhanced access to Baltic.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,191

    algarkirk said:

    Using F-word at work is no sacking offence in the north, rules judge

    Delivery driver wins case for unfair dismissal despite calling female colleague a “f***ing mong” during an argument about her weight


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/using-f-word-at-work-is-no-sacking-offence-in-the-north-rules-judge-p7hnkz927

    We live in two nations. From my north England perch (rural and industrial town) here are millions of people, of all ages, who would never use the traditional four letter words in public, including the great majority of older people and huge numbers of younger ones. There is a minority who use them a lot. In general the place I notice them most is in PB comments.
    Sounds like a load of bollocks to me. Sorry.
    I am disinclined to acquiesce to your view.

    It’s f***ing bollocks, mate
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 622

    Eabhal said:

    Using F-word at work is no sacking offence in the north, rules judge

    Delivery driver wins case for unfair dismissal despite calling female colleague a “f***ing mong” during an argument about her weight


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/using-f-word-at-work-is-no-sacking-offence-in-the-north-rules-judge-p7hnkz927

    I think the second word is far more offensive.
    During a match my son's U15 football team was playing against a team from Orpington, one of the opposition players tried to punch the ref and called him a "sp*stic c*nt". I think everyone found the first word far more offensive than the second.
    Some lady people find the c-word particularly offensive as an insult because of the whole, you know, down there.
    Several years ago at an away hockey match one of their players accidentally but incompetently lifted the ball into a teenager playing for us, hitting him painfully on the knee. He cried out "ah, you c**t" in pain, rather than the expected apology, the opposition player grabbed the kid by the neck with the words "what did you call me?".
    It still troubles me to this day that the umpire did nothing when it should have been a red card for violent conduct.
    As to the case, should have been a disciplinary for not treating a fellow employee with respect.

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,473
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KateEMcCann

    NEW: Chris Philp is the shadow Home Secretary

    who?
    He was the Minister of State for Crime, Policing and Fire before the election - so someone who knows the brief.

    and I think once you go beyond the 6 candidates who stood for the leadership, Rishi and Hunt everyone else is going to be in the "who are they" department. The Tories have 120 MPs and many of the ones people know the name of lost their seats..
    The big advantage this shadow cabinet has is that it mostly passes the "we told you to sling your hooks" test. Even someone like Mel Stride is a relatively fresh face to the electorate.

    The bad news is that it does look awfully light on experience. How many of the bigger names turned offers down, if any? (Tom T isn't on the list, for example). It might well be the best shad cab Badenoch can assemble from the people available, but it doesn't exactly inspire. And if there are some big beasts to return in by-elections (Mordaunt, say), where do they slot in?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,970

    Scott_xP said:

    @MhariAurora
    BREAKING:
    Kemi Badenoch’s shadow cabinet has been announced ahead of its first meeting this morning…

    💷 Shadow Chancellor - Mel Stride
    🚔Shadow Home - Chris Philp
    🌍Shadow Foreign - Priti Patel
    🪖Shadow Defence - James Cartildge
    🏥Shadow Health - Ed Agar
    📚Shadow Education - Laura Trott
    🤝Shadow Business - Andrew Griffith
    🏠Shadow Housing - Kevin Hollinrake
    ⚖️Shadow Justice - Robert Jenrick
    💰Shadow Work & Pensions - Helen Whately
    💡Shadow Energy - Claire Coutinho
    📟Shadow Science & Tech - Alan Mak
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Shadow Scotland - Andrew Bowie
    🇬🇧 Shadow NI - Alex Burghart
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿Shadow Wales - Mims Davies
    🚂Shadow Transport - Gareth Bacon
    ♻️Shadow Environment - Victoria Atkins
    🎭Shadow Culture - Stuart Andrew

    We need their prices for next Conservative leader after the party has tired of Kemi.
    We need to see who rejoins Westminster at by-elections before that is worth the effort.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,811
    A revealing contrast between the way the £285 increase in university tuition fees is being accepted to the tantrums the oldies have had over losing their £200 WFA.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,731

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    Re Georgia, and the view that more women out is a positive for Harris. It is worth remembering that Georgia was the site of a particularly high-profile case of an illegal immigrant killing a female student and one that generated a lot of anger.

    It might not be abortion that is driving these female voters out.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/will-laken-rileys-murder-tip-georgia

    Yes there’s been a lot of commentary on the Republican side about Laken Riley, and sadly a number of other similar cases that have been mentioned at rallies.

    Here’s Megyn Kelly at Trump’s rally last night, endorsing Trump and mentioning both the sad cases of murder and sexual assault by illegals, but also the controversial issue of women’s sports which might also drive turnout among younger women. It’s not necessarily just abortion behind the differential female turnout. https://x.com/megynkellyshow/status/1853643950512316882
    But if ALL the polling can agree on one thing this election, it is that there is a significant pro-Harris slant by women voters. Both in enthusiams and actual voting intention.

    And if you want a demonstration of that energy - just look at the votes ALREADY cast in Georgia.

    "The polls" have Georgia either too close to call or call it for Trump. Bullshit, I say.

    Here's the maths to support my contention that Harris wins Georgia handily. Before today's voting, she already has. It requires only two data points: the actual votes cast as per the official Georgia website - and the latest and last ABC voting intention poll on the split in how men and women will vote.

    "The final ABC News/Ipsos poll before Election Day, released on Sunday, found the gender gap among all likely voters to be 16 points. Harris had a 11-point advantage among women, 53% to 42%, while Trump had a 5-point advantage among men, 50% to 45%."

    I make no apology for reposting this. It's a betting site. The data is telling us the result, as 56% of the electorate have already voted. Absent a huge surge in voting, there's only 10% or so going to vote today in Georgia.

    So here are the likely votes cast already in Georgia, as best we can tell.

    Using the latest ABC gender splits, Harris leads by 11% in the 56% of female votes we know have been cast.

    ABC says Trump leads by 5% in that 43.8% of male votes we know have been cast.

    2.257 million women have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 55.5 = 1.252m female Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 44.5 = 1.004m Republican votes cast

    1.765 million men have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 47.5 = 0.838m male Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 52.5 = 0.926m male Republican votes cast

    Democrat total votes cast: 1.252 + 0.838 = 2.090 million
    Republican total votes cast 1.004 + 0.926 = 1.930 million

    So ABC polling on the gender split says there is a 160,000 Dem firewall after 56% of the electorate have already early voted.

    Reminder: Biden won Georgia in 2020 by just 11,779 votes

    And in case you think it's just Georgia, that's a fluke - it's not:

    Gender split in Pennsylvania is again huge in early voting. As of November 1st:

    "More than 1.6 million commonwealth voters have cast early mail-in ballots for the Nov. 5 presidential election. An Inquirer analysis of early ballot returns found that women composed 56% of the early mail-ins, with men trailing at 43%, according to voting data obtained from the Pennsylvania Department of State this week."

    https://www.inquirer.com/news/early-voting-women-seniors-pennsylvania-20241101.html

    The latest figures are 1.77m early votes, but that 56-43 margin is still there.

    A 13% split. If we again take the last ABC split of women voters favouring Harris by 11%, that is another huge firewall banked by Harris.

    I'm calling it at....4.12 Eastern Time on the 5th November:

    KAMALA HARRIS WILL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.


    Good morning one and all.
    Mr MM I often disagree with your political views but I have a high regard for your assessment of how elections will go.
    I sincerely hope you are right this time.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,462
    Sean_F said:

    First of all a shout out to my old friends @Anabobazina and @BatteryCorrectHorse. And @viewcode. It is great to be back.

    Re the US election, naturally enough I think Trump will win but thoughts.

    Firstly, the clues are in plain sight. You only have to look at how Americans view the country, the Administration and the main concerns (economy / inflation, immigration etc) to see Trump will win. Especially when a lot of Americans view his Administration positively.

    Then look at what the early voting data. Ralston (who, BTW, I have a lot of sympathy for) has said the R lead in NV is unprecedented in recent times. Bitzer has said the same for NC. Rurals are showing up but not in urban areas vs 4 years ago. Black voters are not coming out as they need to for the Democrats. Republicans are ahead by nearly 200K in Arizona, by over 800K in Florida. Sure, in states like PA, the Democrats are ahead but their advantage is far less than in 2020.

    Then there is the mood music. @williamglenn was pillorised for reposting a tweet ( https://x.com/vickiefornyc/status/1853511569851982213) re a Democrat insider saying the election is lost but the same theme has played out several times in Politico and The Hill over the past 10 days. There are no similar articles on Trump.

    Re the three great hopes of the Democrats - women, young voters and Haley Republicans - think again.

    One of the most hilarious things has been an almost uniformly audience of men opining women only care about abortion. It is important but, in my conversations, two women 'specific' issues play well for Republicans - the "men in women's sports / locker rooms" argument and illegal immigrants committing crimes against women. Take a look at the New Yorker article on the Laken Riley murder and it is clear it will be a major factor in Georgia.

    Re young voters, let's see but I suspect the pandemic has changed many young voters' perceptions about how they see the world and - for young male voters at least - that may not be positive for the Democrats. Joe Rogan endorsing Trump is a major plus but Trump's outreach efforts have targeted young men specifically.

    Finally re Haley Republicans, they are not going to vote for Harris and Walz. To many Republicans, they stand for everything they detest. Harris' response on Proposition 36 in CA only reinforces what they thought. Look at the comments here about AZ and the McCain / Haley Republicans (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/arizona-presidential-election-harris-trump.html) - switchover will be minimal.

    So where do I think it will go? Essentially a repeat of 2016 - Trump to essentially win all the states he did plus also NV. I think he will get close in Virginia (couldn't resist that for Anabob) and maybe win NH and NM. I think the Senate will be something like 54-46. The House is a bit more uncertain.

    PS look out for NY - it won't go Trump but Hochul only beat Zeldin 54-46 in 2022

    Good luck all.

    PS yes, this is @MrEd

    I hope that's wrong, but it's an entirely sound analysis.
    Trump has also been targeting African-American voters with his warning that immigrants are taking Black jobs. And Hispanic voters with a similar message.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,547
    edited November 5

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    Re Georgia, and the view that more women out is a positive for Harris. It is worth remembering that Georgia was the site of a particularly high-profile case of an illegal immigrant killing a female student and one that generated a lot of anger.

    It might not be abortion that is driving these female voters out.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/will-laken-rileys-murder-tip-georgia

    Yes there’s been a lot of commentary on the Republican side about Laken Riley, and sadly a number of other similar cases that have been mentioned at rallies.

    Here’s Megyn Kelly at Trump’s rally last night, endorsing Trump and mentioning both the sad cases of murder and sexual assault by illegals, but also the controversial issue of women’s sports which might also drive turnout among younger women. It’s not necessarily just abortion behind the differential female turnout. https://x.com/megynkellyshow/status/1853643950512316882
    But if ALL the polling can agree on one thing this election, it is that there is a significant pro-Harris slant by women voters. Both in enthusiams and actual voting intention.

    And if you want a demonstration of that energy - just look at the votes ALREADY cast in Georgia.

    "The polls" have Georgia either too close to call or call it for Trump. Bullshit, I say.

    Here's the maths to support my contention that Harris wins Georgia handily. Before today's voting, she already has. It requires only two data points: the actual votes cast as per the official Georgia website - and the latest and last ABC voting intention poll on the split in how men and women will vote.

    "The final ABC News/Ipsos poll before Election Day, released on Sunday, found the gender gap among all likely voters to be 16 points. Harris had a 11-point advantage among women, 53% to 42%, while Trump had a 5-point advantage among men, 50% to 45%."

    I make no apology for reposting this. It's a betting site. The data is telling us the result, as 56% of the electorate have already voted. Absent a huge surge in voting, there's only 10% or so going to vote today in Georgia.

    So here are the likely votes cast already in Georgia, as best we can tell.

    Using the latest ABC gender splits, Harris leads by 11% in the 56% of female votes we know have been cast.

    ABC says Trump leads by 5% in that 43.8% of male votes we know have been cast.

    2.257 million women have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 55.5 = 1.252m female Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 44.5 = 1.004m Republican votes cast

    1.765 million men have early voted (fact). ABC says that breaks down:

    Dem @ 47.5 = 0.838m male Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 52.5 = 0.926m male Republican votes cast

    Democrat total votes cast: 1.252 + 0.838 = 2.090 million
    Republican total votes cast 1.004 + 0.926 = 1.930 million

    So ABC polling on the gender split says there is a 160,000 Dem firewall after 56% of the electorate have already early voted.

    Reminder: Biden won Georgia in 2020 by just 11,779 votes

    And in case you think it's just Georgia, that's a fluke - it's not:

    Gender split in Pennsylvania is again huge in early voting. As of November 1st:

    "More than 1.6 million commonwealth voters have cast early mail-in ballots for the Nov. 5 presidential election. An Inquirer analysis of early ballot returns found that women composed 56% of the early mail-ins, with men trailing at 43%, according to voting data obtained from the Pennsylvania Department of State this week."

    https://www.inquirer.com/news/early-voting-women-seniors-pennsylvania-20241101.html

    The latest figures are 1.77m early votes, but that 56-43 margin is still there.

    A 13% split. If we again take the last ABC split of women voters favouring Harris by 11%, that is another huge firewall banked by Harris.

    I'm calling it at....4.12 Eastern Time on the 5th November:

    KAMALA HARRIS WILL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.


    I would be happier if I were a Democratic organiser in Georgia, than a Republican. But, there are two issues:

    1. If turnout matches 2020, there are 750,000 votes still to come on the day. We don't know how those people will break. They might very well overturn a 166,000 vote firewall, among early voters.

    2. We don't actually know how women in Georgia split. The split might be better than an 11% margin for Harris, or it might be worse. That's a major source of uncertainty.

    You say it's not about race, but I would counter that race is always the elephant in the room in Southern State elections, some of which are close to ethnic headcounts.

    Companies that poll Georgia might in fact, be quite correct.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,006

    I’ve seen nothing in the stuff overnight that has changed my mind that this will be a Harris win, with Trump taking NV and AZ and Harris the rest.

    Trump should take Nevada, it has the highest unemployment rate in the US and probably Georgia which has above average inflation.

    Harris will be helped in the blue wall though by the fact inflation in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania is below the US average and unemployment in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin is also below the US average too
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    edited November 5
    kjh said:

    @Sandpit as someone who enjoys your posts I have been reading your posts putting the other side of the argument re Trump but haven't seen you state that you support him.

    Can I ask, are you playing devil's advocate and trying to put the alternative arguments as to why he might win to balance the argument, which you do well, or do you also support him?

    Personally I’m in the “two worst candidates in living memory” camp. I’d probably write in someone silly.

    What I do find quite interesting, following a wide variety of US commentators, that many of the “politically homeless” types are going for Trump this time, which they didn’t do for the last two elections. That’s a lot of what I’ve been sharing on here, as well as the partisan stuff. These people generally voted for Obama in 2012, Hillary or libertarian in 2016, either Biden or libertarian in 2020, and are going to Trump this time on the basis of a both crap libertarian candidate and the wide cross-party group of supporters around Trump, such as RFK, Tulsi Gabbard, Elon Musk, Ron Paul etc.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,462
    Pulpstar said:

    Odds on Bravermann heading off to Reform ?

    Maybe. Reform will need a new leader when Nigel Farage retires but that may not be any time soon, and there might be a new Conservative leader before then, and Farage will always be the king across the water as we have seen already.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    @Sandpit as someone who enjoys your posts I have been reading your posts putting the other side of the argument re Trump but haven't seen you state that you support him.

    Can I ask, are you playing devil's advocate and trying to put the alternative arguments as to why he might win to balance the argument, which you do well, or do you also support him?

    Personally I’m in the “two worst candidates of living memory” camp. I’d probably write in someone silly.

    What I do find quite interesting, following a wide variety of US commentators, that many of the “politically homeless” types are going for Trump this time, which they didn’t do for the last two elections. That’s a lot of what I’ve been sharing on here, as well as the partisan stuff. These people generally voted for Obama in 2012, Hillary or libertarian in 2016, either Biden or libertarian in 2020, and are going to Trump this time on the basis of a both crap libertarian candidate and the wide cross-party group of supporters around Trump, such as RFK, Tulsi Gabbard, Elon Musk etc.
    Wide cross party group = Putinistas.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    edited November 5

    nico679 said:

    Certainly no one can accuse Harris of running a bad campaign . I think she’s done the best she could with the cards she was dealt.

    Barring the unfortunate jobs report which of course had mitigating factors Harris has had some luck .

    Gas prices have been falling in the run upto the election , Israel and Iran didn’t run out of control . Major fallout there could have seen gas prices spike and turned the attention more on Trumps alleged “ man of peace “.

    Trump ran the campaign we all expected , a hate fest from start to finish . Two things from the last week I think really hurt him. People think everything is baked in but his “ protect women whether they like it or not “ with his past history was a serious error .

    The hate rally and Puerto Rico joke has cost him support with Latinos especially in Pennsylvania where polling shows an increase in support of 9% for Harris .

    I also think that Harris has it, though she fought a remarkably vague campaign, presumably deliberately - all about a fresh face rather than many concrete commitments. The consistent YouGov leaning to Trump is strange, and probably biased (in the sense that someone has felt it worth the relatively small sum to keep it that way).

    Full disclosure: I'm +207 if Harris wins, and -£75 if Trump wins.
    +£252 if Harris, -156 if Trump for me.
    Smarkets:
    +297.90 Trump, +318.30 Harris

    Betfair
    -2.01 Trump, +783.18 Harris (Less premium charge)

    Harris ECV / Trump popular
    - 5 No, +171.50 Yes (Less PC)

    New Mexico
    Trump +98, Harris -10 (Less PC)

    Trump 179 ECVs or less
    Yes +867.30, No -15 (Less PC)

    Trump 180 - 209 (StarSports)
    Yes +440, No -20

    Cashed out Harris + 64.5 ECVs
    -2.78 Yes or No (Misunderstood/Ambiguous market)


  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    Pulpstar said:

    nico679 said:

    Certainly no one can accuse Harris of running a bad campaign . I think she’s done the best she could with the cards she was dealt.

    Barring the unfortunate jobs report which of course had mitigating factors Harris has had some luck .

    Gas prices have been falling in the run upto the election , Israel and Iran didn’t run out of control . Major fallout there could have seen gas prices spike and turned the attention more on Trumps alleged “ man of peace “.

    Trump ran the campaign we all expected , a hate fest from start to finish . Two things from the last week I think really hurt him. People think everything is baked in but his “ protect women whether they like it or not “ with his past history was a serious error .

    The hate rally and Puerto Rico joke has cost him support with Latinos especially in Pennsylvania where polling shows an increase in support of 9% for Harris .

    I also think that Harris has it, though she fought a remarkably vague campaign, presumably deliberately - all about a fresh face rather than many concrete commitments. The consistent YouGov leaning to Trump is strange, and probably biased (in the sense that someone has felt it worth the relatively small sum to keep it that way).

    Full disclosure: I'm +207 if Harris wins, and -£75 if Trump wins.
    +£252 if Harris, -156 if Trump for me.
    Smarkets:
    +297.90 Trump, +318.30 Harris

    Betfair
    -2.01 Trump, +783.18 Harris (Less premium charge)

    Harris ECV / Trump popular
    - 5 No, +171.50 Yes (Less PC)

    New Mexico
    Trump +98, Harris -10 (Less PC)

    Trump 179 ECVs or less
    Yes +867.30, No -15 (Less PC)

    Trump 180 - 209 (StarSports)
    Yes +440, No -20

    Cashed out Harris + 64.5 ECVs
    -2.78 Yes or No (Misunderstood/Ambiguous market)


    Nice lot of trading there - well done..
  • HYUFD said:

    I’ve seen nothing in the stuff overnight that has changed my mind that this will be a Harris win, with Trump taking NV and AZ and Harris the rest.

    Trump should take Nevada, it has the highest unemployment rate in the US and probably Georgia which has above average inflation.

    Harris will be helped in the blue wall though by the fact inflation in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania is below the US average and unemployment in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin is also below the US average too
    Great post!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    Pulpstar said:

    nico679 said:

    Certainly no one can accuse Harris of running a bad campaign . I think she’s done the best she could with the cards she was dealt.

    Barring the unfortunate jobs report which of course had mitigating factors Harris has had some luck .

    Gas prices have been falling in the run upto the election , Israel and Iran didn’t run out of control . Major fallout there could have seen gas prices spike and turned the attention more on Trumps alleged “ man of peace “.

    Trump ran the campaign we all expected , a hate fest from start to finish . Two things from the last week I think really hurt him. People think everything is baked in but his “ protect women whether they like it or not “ with his past history was a serious error .

    The hate rally and Puerto Rico joke has cost him support with Latinos especially in Pennsylvania where polling shows an increase in support of 9% for Harris .

    I also think that Harris has it, though she fought a remarkably vague campaign, presumably deliberately - all about a fresh face rather than many concrete commitments. The consistent YouGov leaning to Trump is strange, and probably biased (in the sense that someone has felt it worth the relatively small sum to keep it that way).

    Full disclosure: I'm +207 if Harris wins, and -£75 if Trump wins.
    +£252 if Harris, -156 if Trump for me.
    Smarkets:
    +297.90 Trump, +318.30 Harris

    Betfair
    -2.01 Trump, +783.18 Harris (Less premium charge)

    Harris ECV / Trump popular
    - 5 No, +171.50 Yes (Less PC)

    New Mexico
    Trump +98, Harris -10 (Less PC)

    Trump 179 ECVs or less
    Yes +867.30, No -15 (Less PC)

    Trump 180 - 209 (StarSports)
    Yes +440, No -20

    Cashed out Harris + 64.5 ECVs
    -2.78 Yes or No (Misunderstood/Ambiguous market)


    Harris ElectWin/Trump PopVote :: +£251 (BF)
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,897

    A revealing contrast between the way the £285 increase in university tuition fees is being accepted to the tantrums the oldies have had over losing their £200 WFA.

    The students are students of Martin Lewis and are aware that if the increase affects them at all it would be a marginal impact in 30 years time.

    How much you borrow makes no difference to how much you pay back each month; most will never pay it all back. Some will pay none or almost none.
  • Sean_F said:

    First of all a shout out to my old friends @Anabobazina and @BatteryCorrectHorse. And @viewcode. It is great to be back.

    Re the US election, naturally enough I think Trump will win but thoughts.

    Firstly, the clues are in plain sight. You only have to look at how Americans view the country, the Administration and the main concerns (economy / inflation, immigration etc) to see Trump will win. Especially when a lot of Americans view his Administration positively.

    Then look at what the early voting data. Ralston (who, BTW, I have a lot of sympathy for) has said the R lead in NV is unprecedented in recent times. Bitzer has said the same for NC. Rurals are showing up but not in urban areas vs 4 years ago. Black voters are not coming out as they need to for the Democrats. Republicans are ahead by nearly 200K in Arizona, by over 800K in Florida. Sure, in states like PA, the Democrats are ahead but their advantage is far less than in 2020.

    Then there is the mood music. @williamglenn was pillorised for reposting a tweet ( https://x.com/vickiefornyc/status/1853511569851982213) re a Democrat insider saying the election is lost but the same theme has played out several times in Politico and The Hill over the past 10 days. There are no similar articles on Trump.

    Re the three great hopes of the Democrats - women, young voters and Haley Republicans - think again.

    One of the most hilarious things has been an almost uniformly audience of men opining women only care about abortion. It is important but, in my conversations, two women 'specific' issues play well for Republicans - the "men in women's sports / locker rooms" argument and illegal immigrants committing crimes against women. Take a look at the New Yorker article on the Laken Riley murder and it is clear it will be a major factor in Georgia.

    Re young voters, let's see but I suspect the pandemic has changed many young voters' perceptions about how they see the world and - for young male voters at least - that may not be positive for the Democrats. Joe Rogan endorsing Trump is a major plus but Trump's outreach efforts have targeted young men specifically.

    Finally re Haley Republicans, they are not going to vote for Harris and Walz. To many Republicans, they stand for everything they detest. Harris' response on Proposition 36 in CA only reinforces what they thought. Look at the comments here about AZ and the McCain / Haley Republicans (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/arizona-presidential-election-harris-trump.html) - switchover will be minimal.

    So where do I think it will go? Essentially a repeat of 2016 - Trump to essentially win all the states he did plus also NV. I think he will get close in Virginia (couldn't resist that for Anabob) and maybe win NH and NM. I think the Senate will be something like 54-46. The House is a bit more uncertain.

    PS look out for NY - it won't go Trump but Hochul only beat Zeldin 54-46 in 2022

    Good luck all.

    PS yes, this is @MrEd

    I hope that's wrong, but it's an entirely sound analysis.
    Trump has also been targeting African-American voters with his warning that immigrants are taking Black jobs. And Hispanic voters with a similar message.
    Yes. He does that continually.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,927
    darkage said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    I think the risk to Finland and the Baltics is higher with the democrats. If there is no strategic solution in Ukraine you are effectively supporting an endless war of attrition, with limited political will on the part of the US to back. This to my mind is an extremely dangerous outcome. The Biden administration has embarked on a project in Ukraine it has proven repeatedly it doesn't have the motivation to complete, despite it having the resources to do so. How many people have died? 1 million? For what purpose? A war of attrition in the hope of the Russian state collapsing? This strategy has failed. Russia is not collapsing, it is getting stronger, the west is getting weaker. But the strategy in Ukraine never changes, it is an afterthought in the back of the mind of an exhausted empire, an afghanistan like situation.

    Disruption to the strategy under Trump comes with very many risks, including the risk that Ukraine would just be abandoned. But I put the risk of that as being low given the evident self interest on the part of the US of maintaining support from its European allies. There are many possible outcomes, including the possibility that the war could actually be escalated to try and create the conditions for a lasting solution, at least insofar as Ukraine is concerned.

    There is no strategic solution for the Ukraine.

    Putin wants Kiev - you can't negotiate if that is the desired end result...

    I really don't want to say this to a poster on here but you really don't have the first clue what you are talking about...
    I've not doubted the ambitions of Russia. But the analysis on here has been wrong over and over again. It is wishcasting and reassurance which just gets adapted to fit the updated situation, most of the discussion about Ukraine fits this category.

    A 'strategic solution' in Ukraine will resolve the problem of Russia continuously starting wars in Eastern Europe. What form that takes is not clear. It seems like everyone is in agreement that the solution is that Russia gets defeated in Ukraine and then gets scared off. But then you keep supporting the party that have repeatedly failed to implement that outcome, despite having every opportunity to do so.

    The choice seems to me to be between the Democrats - where Biden has shown he doesn't want Ukraine to lose, but he is scared of Russia losing - and Trump - who fawns over Putin, is also scared of the Russians, but doesn't give a damn about the Ukrainians.

    That's not a great choice - there's no-one prepared to support a Ukrainian victory - but it isn't a hard one.

    My real disappointment is that the Europeans, including Britain, have seen this day coming, have seen American hesitancy, and have completely and utterly failed to step up themselves. Many countries are made by war, and if the EU has pretensions to nationhood then this was the moment at which it could create itself as a nation prepared to defend its values, its interests and a future member.

    It hasn't happened. The European project is bleeding out in the Russo-Ukraine War with the deaths of pro-Europeans denied the weapons to defend themselves.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,006

    A revealing contrast between the way the £285 increase in university tuition fees is being accepted to the tantrums the oldies have had over losing their £200 WFA.

    It certainly isn't being accepted if the twitter posts I have seen are anything to go by, certainly plenty of students crying betrayal and going Green
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,126
    edited November 5

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    darkage said:

    My analysis of the election has changed. If I had a vote, it would be for Trump.
    The defining issue for me is Ukraine. I don't think that the democrats can solve this and I think they will end up gradually losing the war in Ukraine, as the conflict continues on its current trajectory with no apparent strategic direction. This could cause the rapid collapse of more countries, and significant consequential damage.
    My gut feeling is that Trump would be more likely to find a strategic solution to the issue of conflict with Russia.
    This puts me at odds with almost everyone, including everyone I know in Finland, but it is my assessment of the situation. There is too much familiarity bias and continuity bias which fuels the assumption that Harris would preserve NATO and the European security arrangement.
    With Trump there is the possibility of an updated solution to the security question, there is a risk that this fails, but the current direction of travel seems to lead to failure anyway.
    I have this view even accepting that Trump is a significant threat to democracy itself. But I was influenced a lot by Niall Ferguson's recent comments.

    No there isn’t - Trump will simply cut off the supply of arms to the Ukraine and Russia will take over. Then wait a few years to rebuild their supplies before moving on to the next part of “mother Russia” that was stolen from Moscow
    Which may include Finland.
    More the Baltics. Plus a nice big land corridor to Kaliningrad.
    Then Poland and East Germany, why stop there? Next stop Paris.
    Putin is not going to invade Poland, Germany and France. For a start he knows that will trigger nuclear war and destroy Russia forever

    You’re probably joking but it’s still good to keep Putin in perspective
    Would it though? Against France maybe as it has its own independent nuclear weapons. The others don't though and if Trump pulled out of NATO would he even send troops to defend them if Putin invaded let alone US nukes?
    He'll go for the Baltics. Small, formerly part of USSR itself, and with largeish Russian minorities. NATO members, but he'll take risk, as he gains enhanced access to Baltic.
    Finland and Sweden give Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania a lot more strategic depth, plus the JEF troops including the largest UK overseas deployment which is in Estonia. If Putin did invade rather than subvert, he could lose even without any nuclear escalation. Its a hell of a risk to attack a NATO state directly. Russia is in a terrible mess, and as 10,000 North Koreans are fed into the mincing machine, one wonders if any further escalation might not bring about the collapse of Putin´s regime.

    In Tallinn, the general view is that unless stabbed in the back by -say- Trump, we can hold out, and a Finnish/Swedish/Norwegian counter attack would leave St Petersburg and Murmansk incredibly vulnerable, while the Poles can handle Kaliningrad and keep the Suwalki gap open. We do not think the Russians can risk it.

    By the way, the Baltics were Illegally occupied by the USSR in 1940, were never legitimately part of the Imperium and were never recognised as Soviet by the US, UK and several other states.

    The Russian speaking minority in Estonia and Latvia are increasingly ANTI Putin, to the point that they are joining the Estonian army in order to defend against any Putinist incursion. They already saw what happened to the Russian speakers in Ukraine.
This discussion has been closed.