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Jenrick remains the favourite to succeed Sunak – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,212
edited August 26 in General
imageJenrick remains the favourite to succeed Sunak – politicalbetting.com

Another day, another senior Tory being Islamophobic. Allahu Akbar means God is great – the Muslim equivalent of Hallelujah. Jenrick's confidence in going on national TV to say people should be arrested for saying Allahu Akbar exposes his deep-seated prejudice against Muslims. pic.twitter.com/2OtruSaTvG

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    First!
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    edited August 7
    Second, like whoever faces Jenrick with the members.

    I suspect Jenrick will still have enough to get through the MPs, and his proposals will delight the membership. They love nothing more than completely unrealistic policy proposals that nonetheless make them feel good.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    Third, like the Tories will be if Jenrick is leader.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    edited August 7
    I'm confused as you seem to be saying that the St John's, Cambridge educated lawyer isn't that bright as he doesn't seem to think through the consequences of his ideas..

    Although electing him will confirm to many people that the Tory party are the nasty party.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    Honest Bob will share the same ground with Farage.

    Maybe Honest and Farage could merge their respective parties.

    Where do one nation Tories go?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    eek said:

    I'm confused as you seem to be saying that the St John's, Cambridge educated lawyer isn't that bright as he doesn't seem to think through the consequences of his ideas..

    Although electing him will confirm to many people that the Tory party are the nasty party.

    There’s something wrong at St John’s as they also accepted Richard Burgon.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    darkage said:

    I get the feeling that 'establishment left liberals' understand very little. They freely boast about their views and assume that everyone around them agrees with them, and then when something happens that indicates otherwise, they get angry and try and blame it on a conspiracy involving someone like Rupert Murdoch, Vladimir Putin or Elon Musk. This circuit is much on display in these comments, it never ends and keeps on resetting itself.

    Yawn. We've been hearing this for years, TV channels, whole careers, political parties, have been started based on this sentiment, and it remains as devoid of meaning as it ever was.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350

    Honest Bob will share the same ground with Farage.

    Maybe Honest and Farage could merge their respective parties.

    Where do one nation Tories go?

    To recreate the Conservative Party. It can and should be done. The headbanging right wing have hollowed out a once great party with sheer stupidity. It started with Brexit and carried on getting dumber and dumber, aka Johnson and Truss.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    edited August 7
    kyf_100 said:

    Third, like the Tories will be if Jenrick is leader.

    I like your optimism.

    My hope is that he campaigns in culture wars poetry and leads in centrist prose.

    He was a centrist until Brexit/immigration radicalised him.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    edited August 7

    eek said:

    I'm confused as you seem to be saying that the St John's, Cambridge educated lawyer isn't that bright as he doesn't seem to think through the consequences of his ideas..

    Although electing him will confirm to many people that the Tory party are the nasty party.

    There’s something wrong at St John’s as they also accepted Richard Burgon.
    I know. They accepted a friend of mine. Whose academic career consisted in part of throwing waterfilled johnnies at the punters below his room window.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    I'm confused as you seem to be saying that the St John's, Cambridge educated lawyer isn't that bright as he doesn't seem to think through the consequences of his ideas..

    Although electing him will confirm to many people that the Tory party are the nasty party.

    There’s something wrong at St John’s as they also accepted Richard Burgon.
    I know. They accepted a friend of mine. Whose academic career consisted in part of throwing waterfilled johnnies at the punters below his room window.
    Who hasn't engaged in that joyous pastime? TBH I had completely forgotten about it, and wonder whether the hilarity that it once caused might be worth another go!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    I'm confused as you seem to be saying that the St John's, Cambridge educated lawyer isn't that bright as he doesn't seem to think through the consequences of his ideas..

    Although electing him will confirm to many people that the Tory party are the nasty party.

    There’s something wrong at St John’s as they also accepted Richard Burgon.
    I know. They accepted a friend of mine. Whose academic career consisted in part of throwing waterfilled johnnies at the punters below his room window.
    Experimental physics ?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,984

    Honest Bob will share the same ground with Farage.

    Maybe Honest and Farage could merge their respective parties.

    Where do one nation Tories go?

    That's what the likes of @HYUFD seem to want - those who, like him, think you can add all the Reform votes to the Conservative votes and there's your election winning coalition.

    That will be the foundation of the second Starmer Government.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141

    There’s an interesting phenomenon on TikTok at the moment of liberal white women breaking down in tears because Tim Walz reminds them of their dads before political polarisation affected their relationships.

    They blame this all on losing their dads to the MAGA movement, but if you listen to them, it’s clear that to a large extent they are the ones who have been radicalised and their dads have the same views they always had.

    What, they always believed the constitution should be dumped if voters let them down?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,879
    edited August 7
    A little off-topic, this is my Conservative Councillor Photo of the Day. Cone, not pothole.

    The gentleman, former 1980s/90s MP Mr Alan Amos, is aiui the entire Conservative Group on Worcester City Council.

    Here pedestrians, wheelers and cyclists (WWC) have been diverted down the shared footway on the A449 because a bridge on their preferred alternative route has collapsed, and cones then temporary bollards to protect WWCs are being installed, plus a temporary 30mph limit.

    Councillor Amos' complaint is that said cones and bollards are a safety risk for lorries. He has a reputation as a bit of a wedge-driving politician where cycling in particular is concerned.

    If there was a useful safety related argument that addressed all the relevant questions to be made here, one could understand it. As it is, I just don't understand where they find them.

    https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/24488133.a449-malvern-road-cycle-path-cones-cyclists-dismount/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    The markets are right. Jenrick is favourite

    Let’s face it, none of the candidates is Augustus Caesar, they all have grave flaws. Badenoch is flimsy, Patel is widely disliked, Tugendhat is Who?

    This guy probably has the fewest flaws. He’s young, articulate, not posh - self made. He looks vaguely prime ministerial and he’s quite right wing without being Suella, voters may like that

    Also, it will drive the Corbynite anti-Semites mad if both the PM and the LOTO have “Zio” wives. So it’s worth doing for that alone
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    The debate over this phrase reminds me of a comedy that Blair precipitated.

    He (or someone in the government) thought of a wizard wheeze. They would ban the saying of certain words as evil, offensive and racist. Chief among them was the "N" word to describe people of an African origin.

    This ran straight into the problem that (aside from requiring the banning of every Quentin Tarantino film and much of hip hop) a large number of young gentlemen of African origin and affecting a certain cultural milieu, use this word. What to do? How to define who is allowed to say the dread word?

    I was out, half drunk, with some friends, in Westminster. We fell into conversation with some junior lawyers who had been tasked with finding a solution to this problem by their seniors - apparently their firm had ties to the government and they'd been asked to help out.

    Smelling suckers, I offered myself assistance. And suggested that the number of grandparents was the A1 solution.

    They loved the idea and thought it was great. Fortunately, my friends managed to talk them out of it.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    edited August 7
    Madness. The Tories need to change but not for the worst. Even if Roald Dahl was looking for a character to paint over children's cartoons to make them feel miserable and unwelcome he would baulk at someone as charmless as Jenrick
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    JohnO said:

    Jenrick turned up for a very quickly arranged Chinese dinner last night. Fluent presentation but the usual hard-right shtick to entice the membership. Hey that worked so well in 1997-2005. I berated him for his open support for Trump (well, what a surprise) to which he replied that the GOP is our "sister party".

    No chance of his getting my vote but I fear he'll win. What then after almost 50 years party membership?

    Next week it's drinkkies with Mel.

    So what happens if the final two are Jenrick and Patel? 😩
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    I'm confused as you seem to be saying that the St John's, Cambridge educated lawyer isn't that bright as he doesn't seem to think through the consequences of his ideas..

    Although electing him will confirm to many people that the Tory party are the nasty party.

    There’s something wrong at St John’s as they also accepted Richard Burgon.
    I know. They accepted a friend of mine. Whose academic career consisted in part of throwing waterfilled johnnies at the punters below his room window.
    Experimental physics ?
    No. I rather think I. Newton had dealt with it adequately by then.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    There’s an interesting phenomenon on TikTok at the moment of liberal white women breaking down in tears because Tim Walz reminds them of their dads before political polarisation affected their relationships.

    They blame this all on losing their dads to the MAGA movement, but if you listen to them, it’s clear that to a large extent they are the ones who have been radicalised and their dads have the same views they always had.

    What, they always believed the constitution should be dumped if voters let them down?
    One of them was saying, "My dad has a chemistry degree. He understands science. He is so smart but he denounces climate change! This is a man in STEM!"
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    There’s an interesting phenomenon on TikTok at the moment of liberal white women breaking down in tears because Tim Walz reminds them of their dads before political polarisation affected their relationships.

    They blame this all on losing their dads to the MAGA movement, but if you listen to them, it’s clear that to a large extent they are the ones who have been radicalised and their dads have the same views they always had.

    That's a demonstration of the misremembered idyllic childhood which is equally true of the many people who vote Reform and are rioting at the moment.

    They misremember a "better" country / world that never quite existed which they wish to return to.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited August 7

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    I'm confused as you seem to be saying that the St John's, Cambridge educated lawyer isn't that bright as he doesn't seem to think through the consequences of his ideas..

    Although electing him will confirm to many people that the Tory party are the nasty party.

    There’s something wrong at St John’s as they also accepted Richard Burgon.
    I know. They accepted a friend of mine. Whose academic career consisted in part of throwing waterfilled johnnies at the punters below his room window.
    Who hasn't engaged in that joyous pastime? TBH I had completely forgotten about it, and wonder whether the hilarity that it once caused might be worth another go!
    I’m going to do it this very afternoon

    In fact I think we should all do it, as a protest against the riots (by all sides)

    At 5pm sharp every able-bodied PB-er should gather at his/her window and throw water-filled jimmy hats at bemused bypassers, then after a few minutes we should stop, and return to our normal lives, without offering any explanation for our behaviour
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291

    JohnO said:

    Jenrick turned up for a very quickly arranged Chinese dinner last night. Fluent presentation but the usual hard-right shtick to entice the membership. Hey that worked so well in 1997-2005. I berated him for his open support for Trump (well, what a surprise) to which he replied that the GOP is our "sister party".

    No chance of his getting my vote but I fear he'll win. What then after almost 50 years party membership?

    Next week it's drinkkies with Mel.

    So what happens if the final two are Jenrick and Patel? 😩
    You ply me with at least two bottles of best bubbly at our workingman's lunch.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172

    The debate over this phrase reminds me of a comedy that Blair precipitated.

    He (or someone in the government) thought of a wizard wheeze. They would ban the saying of certain words as evil, offensive and racist. Chief among them was the "N" word to describe people of an African origin.

    This ran straight into the problem that (aside from requiring the banning of every Quentin Tarantino film and much of hip hop) a large number of young gentlemen of African origin and affecting a certain cultural milieu, use this word. What to do? How to define who is allowed to say the dread word?

    I was out, half drunk, with some friends, in Westminster. We fell into conversation with some junior lawyers who had been tasked with finding a solution to this problem by their seniors - apparently their firm had ties to the government and they'd been asked to help out.

    Smelling suckers, I offered myself assistance. And suggested that the number of grandparents was the A1 solution.

    They loved the idea and thought it was great. Fortunately, my friends managed to talk them out of it.

    You've been a mischievous so and so for quite a while, haven't you ?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    Leon said:

    The markets are right. Jenrick is favourite

    Let’s face it, none of the candidates is Augustus Caesar, they all have grave flaws. Badenoch is flimsy, Patel is widely disliked, Tugendhat is Who?

    This guy probably has the fewest flaws. He’s young, articulate, not posh - self made. He looks vaguely prime ministerial and he’s quite right wing without being Suella, voters may like that

    Also, it will drive the Corbynite anti-Semites mad if both the PM and the LOTO have “Zio” wives. So it’s worth doing for that alone

    But doesn't James Cleverly collect Adepta Sororitas?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    stodge said:

    Honest Bob will share the same ground with Farage.

    Maybe Honest and Farage could merge their respective parties.

    Where do one nation Tories go?

    That's what the likes of @HYUFD seem to want - those who, like him, think you can add all the Reform votes to the Conservative votes and there's your election winning coalition.

    That will be the foundation of the second Starmer Government.
    A right wing party so toxic that even more centre / wet rightwing voters have no choice but to give Starmer 4 more years.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    JohnO said:

    Jenrick turned up for a very quickly arranged Chinese dinner last night. Fluent presentation but the usual hard-right shtick to entice the membership. Hey that worked so well in 1997-2005. I berated him for his open support for Trump (well, what a surprise) to which he replied that the GOP is our "sister party".

    No chance of his getting my vote but I fear he'll win. What then after almost 50 years party membership?

    Next week it's drinkkies with Mel.

    Alan B'Stard lives and breathes.

    An evening with Mel Stride would seem to be a far more composed event.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    Note to Jenrick, Britain has been a multicultural society for quite some time now.
    Educate yourself.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_emancipation
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,030
    eek said:

    There’s an interesting phenomenon on TikTok at the moment of liberal white women breaking down in tears because Tim Walz reminds them of their dads before political polarisation affected their relationships.

    They blame this all on losing their dads to the MAGA movement, but if you listen to them, it’s clear that to a large extent they are the ones who have been radicalised and their dads have the same views they always had.

    That's a demonstration of the misremembered idyllic childhood which is equally true of the many people who vote Reform and are rioting at the moment.

    They misremember a "better" country / world that never quite existed which they wish to return to.
    Like the Blair Years before Iraq?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Roger said:

    Madness. The Tories need to change but not for the worst. Even if Roald Dahl was looking for a character to paint over children's cartoons to make them feel miserable and unwelcome he would baulk at someone as charmless as Jenrick

    You’ve finally convinced me. It has to be Jenrick
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807

    JohnO said:

    Jenrick turned up for a very quickly arranged Chinese dinner last night. Fluent presentation but the usual hard-right shtick to entice the membership. Hey that worked so well in 1997-2005. I berated him for his open support for Trump (well, what a surprise) to which he replied that the GOP is our "sister party".

    No chance of his getting my vote but I fear he'll win. What then after almost 50 years party membership?

    Next week it's drinkkies with Mel.

    Alan B'Stard lives and breathes.

    An evening with Mel Stride would seem to be a far more composed event.
    You'd have to watch out for disappearing dim sum.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    Nigelb said:

    The debate over this phrase reminds me of a comedy that Blair precipitated.

    He (or someone in the government) thought of a wizard wheeze. They would ban the saying of certain words as evil, offensive and racist. Chief among them was the "N" word to describe people of an African origin.

    This ran straight into the problem that (aside from requiring the banning of every Quentin Tarantino film and much of hip hop) a large number of young gentlemen of African origin and affecting a certain cultural milieu, use this word. What to do? How to define who is allowed to say the dread word?

    I was out, half drunk, with some friends, in Westminster. We fell into conversation with some junior lawyers who had been tasked with finding a solution to this problem by their seniors - apparently their firm had ties to the government and they'd been asked to help out.

    Smelling suckers, I offered myself assistance. And suggested that the number of grandparents was the A1 solution.

    They loved the idea and thought it was great. Fortunately, my friends managed to talk them out of it.

    You've been a mischievous so and so for quite a while, haven't you ?
    I used to enjoy that kind of prank quite a bit.

    It's remarkable what you can get people to agree with, presented right.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    edited August 7
    JohnO said:

    Jenrick turned up for a very quickly arranged Chinese dinner last night. Fluent presentation but the usual hard-right shtick to entice the membership. Hey that worked so well in 1997-2005. I berated him for his open support for Trump (well, what a surprise) to which he replied that the GOP is our "sister party".

    No chance of his getting my vote but I fear he'll win. What then after almost 50 years party membership?

    Next week it's drinkkies with Mel.

    There's just no pleasing you guys. You spend years telling party members to fk off to UKIP and then when the do, you complain about it :smile:
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Jenrick turned up for a very quickly arranged Chinese dinner last night. Fluent presentation but the usual hard-right shtick to entice the membership. Hey that worked so well in 1997-2005. I berated him for his open support for Trump (well, what a surprise) to which he replied that the GOP is our "sister party".

    No chance of his getting my vote but I fear he'll win. What then after almost 50 years party membership?

    Next week it's drinkkies with Mel.

    So what happens if the final two are Jenrick and Patel? 😩
    You ply me with at least two bottles of best bubbly at our workingman's lunch.
    Thank goodness we’re going to Claridge’s next, cannot get more working man than that.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,879
    Isn't Jenrick supposed to be a staunch defender of free speech, one of the slogans used by his colleagues Asfield MP Lee Anderson and Bassetlaw MP Brendan Clarke-Smith to defend naming hotels being used to house asylum seekers back in 2022 ?

    Will the rump Conservative membership really swallow this stuff?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    There’s an interesting phenomenon on TikTok at the moment of liberal white women breaking down in tears because Tim Walz reminds them of their dads before political polarisation affected their relationships.

    They blame this all on losing their dads to the MAGA movement, but if you listen to them, it’s clear that to a large extent they are the ones who have been radicalised and their dads have the same views they always had.

    They sound like complete melts.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    I'm confused as you seem to be saying that the St John's, Cambridge educated lawyer isn't that bright as he doesn't seem to think through the consequences of his ideas..

    Although electing him will confirm to many people that the Tory party are the nasty party.

    There’s something wrong at St John’s as they also accepted Richard Burgon.
    I know. They accepted a friend of mine. Whose academic career consisted in part of throwing waterfilled johnnies at the punters below his room window.
    Experimental physics ?
    No. I rather think I. Newton had dealt with it adequately by then.
    Pshaw! - there are whole careers in re-examining the classic experiments. You just need to shovel enough *novel* bollocks into the resulting papers.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Nigelb said:

    Note to Jenrick, Britain has been a multicultural society for quite some time now.
    Educate yourself.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_emancipation

    What is this type of gotcha supposed to prove? No doubt if we end up with a Yugoslavia-style conflict, people will say that actually genocide is nothing new here.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    The physics behind global warming was only properly set out last year.

    Physicists Pinpoint the Quantum Origin of the Greenhouse Effect
    https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-pinpoint-the-quantum-origin-of-the-greenhouse-effect-20240807/

    (Though Fermi resonance, as its name implies, has been known about for rather longer.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    I'm confused as you seem to be saying that the St John's, Cambridge educated lawyer isn't that bright as he doesn't seem to think through the consequences of his ideas..

    Although electing him will confirm to many people that the Tory party are the nasty party.

    There’s something wrong at St John’s as they also accepted Richard Burgon.
    I know. They accepted a friend of mine. Whose academic career consisted in part of throwing waterfilled johnnies at the punters below his room window.
    Who hasn't engaged in that joyous pastime? TBH I had completely forgotten about it, and wonder whether the hilarity that it once caused might be worth another go!
    I’m going to do it this very afternoon

    In fact I think we should all do it, as a protest against the riots (by all sides)

    At 5pm sharp every able-bodied PB-er should gather at his/her window and throw water-filled jimmy hats at bemused bypassers, then after a few minutes we should stop, and return to our normal lives, without offering any explanation for our behaviour
    Ah, I fear a misunderstanding over 'punter'. The kind in my comment is the one which infests the River Cam. Not Cam-den High Street
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172

    JohnO said:

    Jenrick turned up for a very quickly arranged Chinese dinner last night. Fluent presentation but the usual hard-right shtick to entice the membership. Hey that worked so well in 1997-2005. I berated him for his open support for Trump (well, what a surprise) to which he replied that the GOP is our "sister party".

    No chance of his getting my vote but I fear he'll win. What then after almost 50 years party membership?

    Next week it's drinkkies with Mel.

    Alan B'Stard lives and breathes.

    An evening with Mel Stride would seem to be a far more composed event.
    You'd have to watch out for disappearing dim sum.
    Fattist.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    While weve been fixating on a bit street banter, I see Ukraine has invaded Russia.

    Battle of Kursk 2 on the cards

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/08/07/ukraine-launches-biggest-cross-border-raid-into-russia/
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,916
    None of the choices are very inspiring.

    But they perhaps don’t need to be. They need a period of rebuilding and shoring up their right flank.

    In all actuality a lot of this will depend on how Labour are perceived by mid term as to whether there is then a push for power of if it’s just a case of putting in a credible performance at the next GE.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934

    Nigelb said:

    The debate over this phrase reminds me of a comedy that Blair precipitated.

    He (or someone in the government) thought of a wizard wheeze. They would ban the saying of certain words as evil, offensive and racist. Chief among them was the "N" word to describe people of an African origin.

    This ran straight into the problem that (aside from requiring the banning of every Quentin Tarantino film and much of hip hop) a large number of young gentlemen of African origin and affecting a certain cultural milieu, use this word. What to do? How to define who is allowed to say the dread word?

    I was out, half drunk, with some friends, in Westminster. We fell into conversation with some junior lawyers who had been tasked with finding a solution to this problem by their seniors - apparently their firm had ties to the government and they'd been asked to help out.

    Smelling suckers, I offered myself assistance. And suggested that the number of grandparents was the A1 solution.

    They loved the idea and thought it was great. Fortunately, my friends managed to talk them out of it.

    You've been a mischievous so and so for quite a while, haven't you ?
    I used to enjoy that kind of prank quite a bit.

    It's remarkable what you can get people to agree with, presented right.
    Once persuaded a former GF that in a kiwi fruit, the black seeds are poisonous and have to be taken out.

    Don't know how I held a straight face as she performed micro-surgery on said fruit.

    Also persuaded the Wife that horseradish was named after the "whore's radish", as ladies of the night used to slice it and use it as a barrier contraceptive.

    And don't get me started on how the hua-hua is still the currency of Hawaii...sold to a gullible banker.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172

    Nigelb said:

    Note to Jenrick, Britain has been a multicultural society for quite some time now.
    Educate yourself.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_emancipation

    What is this type of gotcha supposed to prove? No doubt if we end up with a Yugoslavia-style conflict, people will say that actually genocide is nothing new here.
    That culturally we're accustomed to accommodating different religions.
    It's not a 'gotcha'; it's objecting to this piece of stupidity
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291

    JohnO said:

    Jenrick turned up for a very quickly arranged Chinese dinner last night. Fluent presentation but the usual hard-right shtick to entice the membership. Hey that worked so well in 1997-2005. I berated him for his open support for Trump (well, what a surprise) to which he replied that the GOP is our "sister party".

    No chance of his getting my vote but I fear he'll win. What then after almost 50 years party membership?

    Next week it's drinkkies with Mel.

    There's just no pleasing you guys. You spend years telling party members to fk off to UKIP and then when the do, you complain about it :smile:
    Hey Brookie, Tust you found spiritual solace this morning at Hamburg's Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster. I was concerned for your welfare.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Note to Jenrick, Britain has been a multicultural society for quite some time now.
    Educate yourself.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_emancipation

    What is this type of gotcha supposed to prove? No doubt if we end up with a Yugoslavia-style conflict, people will say that actually genocide is nothing new here.
    That culturally we're accustomed to accommodating different religions.
    It's not a 'gotcha'; it's objecting to this piece of stupidity
    Does it not follow from this argument that we have not become more multicultural in the last few decades?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    edited August 7

    None of the choices are very inspiring.

    But they perhaps don’t need to be. They need a period of rebuilding and shoring up their right flank.

    In all actuality a lot of this will depend on how Labour are perceived by mid term as to whether there is then a push for power of if it’s just a case of putting in a credible performance at the next GE.

    Forget mid-term, depends more how they are perceived by next midweek....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    edited August 7

    Nigelb said:

    The debate over this phrase reminds me of a comedy that Blair precipitated.

    He (or someone in the government) thought of a wizard wheeze. They would ban the saying of certain words as evil, offensive and racist. Chief among them was the "N" word to describe people of an African origin.

    This ran straight into the problem that (aside from requiring the banning of every Quentin Tarantino film and much of hip hop) a large number of young gentlemen of African origin and affecting a certain cultural milieu, use this word. What to do? How to define who is allowed to say the dread word?

    I was out, half drunk, with some friends, in Westminster. We fell into conversation with some junior lawyers who had been tasked with finding a solution to this problem by their seniors - apparently their firm had ties to the government and they'd been asked to help out.

    Smelling suckers, I offered myself assistance. And suggested that the number of grandparents was the A1 solution.

    They loved the idea and thought it was great. Fortunately, my friends managed to talk them out of it.

    You've been a mischievous so and so for quite a while, haven't you ?
    I used to enjoy that kind of prank quite a bit.

    It's remarkable what you can get people to agree with, presented right.
    Once persuaded a former GF that in a kiwi fruit, the black seeds are poisonous and have to be taken out.

    Don't know how I held a straight face as she performed micro-surgery on said fruit.

    Also persuaded the Wife that horseradish was named after the "whore's radish", as ladies of the night used to slice it and use it as a barrier contraceptive.

    And don't get me started on how the hua-hua is still the currency of Hawaii...sold to a gullible banker.
    Nice on all four counts.

    I think my inspiration has always been...


    Has it ever struck you, Dick, that ecclesiastical language has a most sinister sound? I knew some of the words, though not their meaning, but I knew that my audience would be just as ignorant. So I had a magnificent peroration. ‘Will you men of Kilclavers,’ I asked, ‘endure to see a chasuble set up in your marketplace? Will you have your daughters sold into simony? Will you have celibacy practised in the public streets?’ Gad, I had them all on their feet bellowing ‘Never!’ ”


    EDIT: Sometimes I regret talking the MP *out* of the peanuts-for-biofuel scheme.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934

    While weve been fixating on a bit street banter, I see Ukraine has invaded Russia.

    Battle of Kursk 2 on the cards

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/08/07/ukraine-launches-biggest-cross-border-raid-into-russia/

    Not sure if it is Ukrainians, or some social media posts saying that is where UK asylum seekers are being housed...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,609
    edited August 7
    John Hayes, who was injured tacking the Southport suspect, says he's dismayed by Keir Starmer's response to the riots in a BBC Radio 4 Today interview

    https://x.com/BBCr4today/status/1821133803923939803?t=JWVFloTzqNLkZFMdwCbKJQ&s=19
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Jenrick seems most likely to bring back Reform voters? And will he really drive off that many still voting for the Tories, the core voters?

    So he probably will do well in the contest despite or even because of his remarks.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,932

    JohnO said:

    Jenrick turned up for a very quickly arranged Chinese dinner last night. Fluent presentation but the usual hard-right shtick to entice the membership. Hey that worked so well in 1997-2005. I berated him for his open support for Trump (well, what a surprise) to which he replied that the GOP is our "sister party".

    No chance of his getting my vote but I fear he'll win. What then after almost 50 years party membership?

    Next week it's drinkkies with Mel.

    So what happens if the final two are Jenrick and Patel? 😩
    You would both be welcome in the LDs. I know that might mean you will burn in hell, but really both of you have views that aren't a million miles away from mine and you both seem to have a cracking sense of humour as well (you will need it).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330

    Nigelb said:

    The debate over this phrase reminds me of a comedy that Blair precipitated.

    He (or someone in the government) thought of a wizard wheeze. They would ban the saying of certain words as evil, offensive and racist. Chief among them was the "N" word to describe people of an African origin.

    This ran straight into the problem that (aside from requiring the banning of every Quentin Tarantino film and much of hip hop) a large number of young gentlemen of African origin and affecting a certain cultural milieu, use this word. What to do? How to define who is allowed to say the dread word?

    I was out, half drunk, with some friends, in Westminster. We fell into conversation with some junior lawyers who had been tasked with finding a solution to this problem by their seniors - apparently their firm had ties to the government and they'd been asked to help out.

    Smelling suckers, I offered myself assistance. And suggested that the number of grandparents was the A1 solution.

    They loved the idea and thought it was great. Fortunately, my friends managed to talk them out of it.

    You've been a mischievous so and so for quite a while, haven't you ?
    I used to enjoy that kind of prank quite a bit.

    It's remarkable what you can get people to agree with, presented right.
    Once persuaded a former GF that in a kiwi fruit, the black seeds are poisonous and have to be taken out.

    Don't know how I held a straight face as she performed micro-surgery on said fruit.

    Also persuaded the Wife that horseradish was named after the "whore's radish", as ladies of the night used to slice it and use it as a barrier contraceptive.

    And don't get me started on how the hua-hua is still the currency of Hawaii...sold to a gullible banker.
    Nice on all four counts.

    I think my inspiration has always been...


    Has it ever struck you, Dick, that ecclesiastical language has a most sinister sound? I knew some of the words, though not their meaning, but I knew that my audience would be just as ignorant. So I had a magnificent peroration. ‘Will you men of Kilclavers,’ I asked, ‘endure to see a chasuble set up in your marketplace? Will you have your daughters sold into simony? Will you have celibacy practised in the public streets?’ Gad, I had them all on their feet bellowing ‘Never!’ ”


    EDIT: Sometimes I regret talking the MP *out* of the peanuts-for-biofuel scheme.
    Tho I still feel that Ayton's railway story was better.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Jenrick turned up for a very quickly arranged Chinese dinner last night. Fluent presentation but the usual hard-right shtick to entice the membership. Hey that worked so well in 1997-2005. I berated him for his open support for Trump (well, what a surprise) to which he replied that the GOP is our "sister party".

    No chance of his getting my vote but I fear he'll win. What then after almost 50 years party membership?

    Next week it's drinkkies with Mel.

    There's just no pleasing you guys. You spend years telling party members to fk off to UKIP and then when the do, you complain about it :smile:
    Hey Brookie, Tust you found spiritual solace this morning at Hamburg's Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster. I was concerned for your welfare.
    Wrong part of town. I was in the St Georg district and could see the catholic cathedral just 200 metres from my hotel room. It's next door to a gay sex shop and smack bang in the Turkish district for good measure. Sort of makes the UK diversity shtick a bit tame.

    On the other hand since the boys in Belfast have decide to do joint rioting, could I interest you in a bowler hat \ balaclava combo ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    One aspect of the Trump movement that people tend to overlook is the way in which he ran against the bi-partisan consensus of the Iraq war/WoT era.

    What makes Harris and Walz so difficult for him is that they are not tainted by it and in many ways do project an image of the more self-confident America of the 1990s.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,723

    There’s an interesting phenomenon on TikTok at the moment of liberal white women breaking down in tears because Tim Walz reminds them of their dads before political polarisation affected their relationships.

    They blame this all on losing their dads to the MAGA movement, but if you listen to them, it’s clear that to a large extent they are the ones who have been radicalised and their dads have the same views they always had.

    Another example of the dangers of allowing women to think for themselves I'm afraid.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Jenrick turned up for a very quickly arranged Chinese dinner last night. Fluent presentation but the usual hard-right shtick to entice the membership. Hey that worked so well in 1997-2005. I berated him for his open support for Trump (well, what a surprise) to which he replied that the GOP is our "sister party".

    No chance of his getting my vote but I fear he'll win. What then after almost 50 years party membership?

    Next week it's drinkkies with Mel.

    There's just no pleasing you guys. You spend years telling party members to fk off to UKIP and then when the do, you complain about it :smile:
    Hey Brookie, Tust you found spiritual solace this morning at Hamburg's Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster. I was concerned for your welfare.
    Wrong part of town. I was in the St Georg district and could see the catholic cathedral just 200 metres from my hotel room. It's next door to a gay sex shop and smack bang in the Turkish district for good measure. Sort of makes the UK diversity shtick a bit tame.

    On the other hand since the boys in Belfast have decide to do joint rioting, could I interest you in a bowler hat \ balaclava combo ?
    NOW we're talking. Drop me a line.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    JohnO said:

    Jenrick turned up for a very quickly arranged Chinese dinner last night. Fluent presentation but the usual hard-right shtick to entice the membership. Hey that worked so well in 1997-2005. I berated him for his open support for Trump (well, what a surprise) to which he replied that the GOP is our "sister party".

    No chance of his getting my vote but I fear he'll win. What then after almost 50 years party membership?

    Next week it's drinkkies with Mel.

    Alan B'Stard lives and breathes.

    An evening with Mel Stride would seem to be a far more composed event.
    Jenrick really does remind me of Alan B'Stard.

    Comically cruel (painting over kids murals), open to a bit of sleaze (the Richard Desmond affair), happy to help himself to the perks of office (hundred grand in expenses for his _third_ house) and thinks he's above the law (lockdown breaking).

    I can only assume he's being touted as Tory leader because either a) the demented fools who are still card-carrying Conservative members think The New Statesman was a documentary or b) he's a ringer for BoJo, who plans to come back in a by election in a couple of years time and take over the party.

    As I've said before, if Jenrick is the answer, really, what is the question?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    kjh said:

    JohnO said:

    Jenrick turned up for a very quickly arranged Chinese dinner last night. Fluent presentation but the usual hard-right shtick to entice the membership. Hey that worked so well in 1997-2005. I berated him for his open support for Trump (well, what a surprise) to which he replied that the GOP is our "sister party".

    No chance of his getting my vote but I fear he'll win. What then after almost 50 years party membership?

    Next week it's drinkkies with Mel.

    So what happens if the final two are Jenrick and Patel? 😩
    You would both be welcome in the LDs. I know that might mean you will burn in hell, but really both of you have views that aren't a million miles away from mine and you both seem to have a cracking sense of humour as well (you will need it).
    Apparently the greatest Tory PM ever (well certainly after Thatcher and Dave) defected to the Liberals, so there is precedent.

    I draw the line at wearing sandals, that is a red line for me.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172

    One aspect of the Trump movement that people tend to overlook is the way in which he ran against the bi-partisan consensus of the Iraq war/WoT era.

    What makes Harris and Walz so difficult for him is that they are not tainted by it and in many ways do project an image of the more self-confident America of the 1990s.

    The other is that they also understand that his schtick is politics as entertainment. And they've nicked that from him.
    No one ever though Hillary was fun; this lot can be.

    He's still trying to work out how to respond.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,379
    FPT @Tim_in_Ruislip

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    The reason the UK's elite class is so hostile to Elon Musk and other dissenters is because they can sense they are losing control of the narrative and the conversation.

    We are simply no longer in a world where the national conversation and what is considered "true" can be controlled by the same groups of people --who come from the same backgrounds, have the same values, the same political loyalties, and want the same outcomes.

    That era, when the elite class dominate what used to be the most important and influential institutions, is over. It is done. And, as
    @KonstantinKisin
    has rightly noted, it is never coming back. We are in a new era.

    As I wrote in a book last year, many people in the West are rapidly giving up on "a national conversation" that no longer reflects their values, their voice, and which considers some groups in society, usually minority groups, to be more virtuous than others.

    The elite class could have responded to this trend by opening themselves up; they chose to the opposite while also attacking anybody who questioned their consensus along the way."

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1821135791076102203

    Although I get Goodwin's point (and have read his book which he so unsubtly plugs), he keeps thinking he isn't part of the elite, and that the elite are the left-wing and the right is the insurgency. I hate to bang on about this, but it's more a case of one set of elites criticising another set of elites courtesy of elite overproduction (see Turchin).

    We are shattering into pieces and reassembling into transnational tribes, not compatriots of a nation-state. This is why Musk teases Starmer, Jenrick says he will vote for Trump, Farage and Truss bugger off to the States, and that GOP idiot banged on about British immigration.
    Your posts on this stuff are really excellent.
    That's very kind of you, thank you. Although please be reassured I will soon be back to making obscure Star Trek references or talking about an interesting stick I have found. :)
  • Nigelb said:

    One aspect of the Trump movement that people tend to overlook is the way in which he ran against the bi-partisan consensus of the Iraq war/WoT era.

    What makes Harris and Walz so difficult for him is that they are not tainted by it and in many ways do project an image of the more self-confident America of the 1990s.

    The other is that they also understand that his schtick is politics as entertainment. And they've nicked that from him.
    No one ever though Hillary was fun; this lot can be.

    He's still trying to work out how to respond.
    Bitterly complaining that his opponent likes to laugh just exposes how dour and miserable he is.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Good evening from Colombo!

    If Jenrick is the answer, then wtf is the question?

    Tories heading for sub 100 if they make this xenophobe their leader. The Tories as a Reform tribute act will end in tears! It’s obvious that some of the right wing fruit loops on here can’t see this!
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,811
    Leon said:

    The markets are right. Jenrick is favourite

    Let’s face it, none of the candidates is Augustus Caesar, they all have grave flaws. Badenoch is flimsy, Patel is widely disliked, Tugendhat is Who?

    This guy probably has the fewest flaws. He’s young, articulate, not posh - self made. He looks vaguely prime ministerial and he’s quite right wing without being Suella, voters may like that

    Also, it will drive the Corbynite anti-Semites mad if both the PM and the LOTO have “Zio” wives. So it’s worth doing for that alone

    Unfortunately he's also an unelectable careerist dud who's very obviously manoeuvring himself to gain the votes of the remaining hard-line factionalists in the PCP in order to get into the final two.

    Chasing Farage is a mug's game. The threat from the LibDems hoovering up the remaining Home Counties seats (backbone of the Tory party since Lord Salisbury) is far more existential.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    kyf_100 said:

    JohnO said:

    Jenrick turned up for a very quickly arranged Chinese dinner last night. Fluent presentation but the usual hard-right shtick to entice the membership. Hey that worked so well in 1997-2005. I berated him for his open support for Trump (well, what a surprise) to which he replied that the GOP is our "sister party".

    No chance of his getting my vote but I fear he'll win. What then after almost 50 years party membership?

    Next week it's drinkkies with Mel.

    Alan B'Stard lives and breathes.

    An evening with Mel Stride would seem to be a far more composed event.
    Jenrick really does remind me of Alan B'Stard.

    Comically cruel (painting over kids murals), open to a bit of sleaze (the Richard Desmond affair), happy to help himself to the perks of office (hundred grand in expenses for his _third_ house) and thinks he's above the law (lockdown breaking).

    I can only assume he's being touted as Tory leader because either a) the demented fools who are still card-carrying Conservative members think The New Statesman was a documentary or b) he's a ringer for BoJo, who plans to come back in a by election in a couple of years time and take over the party.

    As I've said before, if Jenrick is the answer, really, what is the question?
    I think Patel is the Boris ringer. She is very continuity Boris - possibly economically a bit drier. If it is Patel and Jenrick, debating will be a win for him - he's more composed and eloquent. I'd prefer Patel as PM, but there we go.

    I am against anyone being told they can't say something on the street. I don’t think it is quite as simple as saying hallelujah. That is usually a prelude to nothing more sinister than a sermon.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608

    One aspect of the Trump movement that people tend to overlook is the way in which he ran against the bi-partisan consensus of the Iraq war/WoT era.

    What makes Harris and Walz so difficult for him is that they are not tainted by it and in many ways do project an image of the more self-confident America of the 1990s.

    On the other hand, the withdrawal from Afghanistan (as enacted by Biden, but following Trump's plan) almost certainly led to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
  • LDLFLDLF Posts: 161
    edited August 7
    No idea who internally the Tories are happiest with, but as far as appealing to the rest of the electorate is concerned, my opinion (from most to least preferred) would be roughly as follows:

    Tugendhat > Badenoch > Cleverly > Stride > Jenrick > Patel

    To clarify I base this on nothing other than gut instinct. But I say this as a member of no party and swing voter (between Lib Dem and Tory). Frankly all of them have made mistakes, some more recently than others.

    - Tugendhat I think is likely to have the most appeal beyond usual Tory voters and has an 'unimpeachable' sort of vibe (equivalent to Starmer's but without Starmer's somewhat grating sanctimony) that would help to turn the page on the old regime.

    - Badenoch would appear to be the one Labour fears the most (hence they have unleashed upon her their deadliest servant, Pippa Crerar). She is more interesting than both her fans and detractors would perhaps admit; a so-called 'right wing culture warrior' who defends the Equality Act in its current form, and then clearly articulates why; and a Eurosceptic who is willing to confront ERG hardliners. But she gets into so many arguments that she presents a potential risk. Also was a prominent player in the old regime.

    - Cleverly has the vibes of an emollient Ken Clarke type and a self-effacing sense of humour. This has a certain appeal but his jokes have got him in trouble in the past.

    - Stride is, to most of us who are not insiders, a completely unkown quantity. Could go either way but I suspect the reaction would be a general 'meh'.

    - Jenrick has narrowed his appeal with barmy statements and proposals such as this one. A former Cameroon with all the zealoutry of a new convert.

    - The public has already made their mind up about Patel and she appears to be the most disliked of the bunch. The fact that Crerar devotes no time to the rather more substantial allegations surrounding her time in office tells you all you need to know about how little Labour fears Patel as an opponent.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956

    kyf_100 said:

    JohnO said:

    Jenrick turned up for a very quickly arranged Chinese dinner last night. Fluent presentation but the usual hard-right shtick to entice the membership. Hey that worked so well in 1997-2005. I berated him for his open support for Trump (well, what a surprise) to which he replied that the GOP is our "sister party".

    No chance of his getting my vote but I fear he'll win. What then after almost 50 years party membership?

    Next week it's drinkkies with Mel.

    Alan B'Stard lives and breathes.

    An evening with Mel Stride would seem to be a far more composed event.
    Jenrick really does remind me of Alan B'Stard.

    Comically cruel (painting over kids murals), open to a bit of sleaze (the Richard Desmond affair), happy to help himself to the perks of office (hundred grand in expenses for his _third_ house) and thinks he's above the law (lockdown breaking).

    I can only assume he's being touted as Tory leader because either a) the demented fools who are still card-carrying Conservative members think The New Statesman was a documentary or b) he's a ringer for BoJo, who plans to come back in a by election in a couple of years time and take over the party.

    As I've said before, if Jenrick is the answer, really, what is the question?
    I think Patel is the Boris ringer. She is very continuity Boris - possibly economically a bit drier. If it is Patel and Jenrick, debating will be a win for him - he's more composed and eloquent. I'd prefer Patel as PM, but there we go.

    I am against anyone being told they can't say something on the street. I don’t think it is quite as simple as saying hallelujah. That is usually a prelude to nothing more sinister than a sermon.
    I’ll let you into a secret, it really isn’t.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    "Britain’s rioters have acted like Bolsheviks
    Robert Service"

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britains-rioters-have-acted-like-bolsheviks/
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    Anyhoo, 2024 - the year of the lawyer if Starmer, Jenrick, and Harris all end up winning.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127

    Nigelb said:

    The debate over this phrase reminds me of a comedy that Blair precipitated.

    He (or someone in the government) thought of a wizard wheeze. They would ban the saying of certain words as evil, offensive and racist. Chief among them was the "N" word to describe people of an African origin.

    This ran straight into the problem that (aside from requiring the banning of every Quentin Tarantino film and much of hip hop) a large number of young gentlemen of African origin and affecting a certain cultural milieu, use this word. What to do? How to define who is allowed to say the dread word?

    I was out, half drunk, with some friends, in Westminster. We fell into conversation with some junior lawyers who had been tasked with finding a solution to this problem by their seniors - apparently their firm had ties to the government and they'd been asked to help out.

    Smelling suckers, I offered myself assistance. And suggested that the number of grandparents was the A1 solution.

    They loved the idea and thought it was great. Fortunately, my friends managed to talk them out of it.

    You've been a mischievous so and so for quite a while, haven't you ?
    I used to enjoy that kind of prank quite a bit.

    It's remarkable what you can get people to agree with, presented right.
    Once persuaded a former GF that in a kiwi fruit, the black seeds are poisonous and have to be taken out.

    Don't know how I held a straight face as she performed micro-surgery on said fruit.

    Also persuaded the Wife that horseradish was named after the "whore's radish", as ladies of the night used to slice it and use it as a barrier contraceptive.

    And don't get me started on how the hua-hua is still the currency of Hawaii...sold to a gullible banker.
    I remember that time you persuaded an entire political betting forum that the word from the doorstep in South Devon meant that it was a certain Tory hold. That was excellent bantz (as I believe the kids say nowadays).
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    rcs1000 said:

    One aspect of the Trump movement that people tend to overlook is the way in which he ran against the bi-partisan consensus of the Iraq war/WoT era.

    What makes Harris and Walz so difficult for him is that they are not tainted by it and in many ways do project an image of the more self-confident America of the 1990s.

    On the other hand, the withdrawal from Afghanistan (as enacted by Biden, but following Trump's plan) almost certainly led to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
    If they'd never tried to occupy Afghanistan in the first place, there would have been no chaotic withdrawal...
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,554

    JohnO said:

    Jenrick turned up for a very quickly arranged Chinese dinner last night. Fluent presentation but the usual hard-right shtick to entice the membership. Hey that worked so well in 1997-2005. I berated him for his open support for Trump (well, what a surprise) to which he replied that the GOP is our "sister party".

    No chance of his getting my vote but I fear he'll win. What then after almost 50 years party membership?

    Next week it's drinkkies with Mel.

    So what happens if the final two are Jenrick and Patel? 😩
    Maybe do what a lot of decent Labour supporters did (well both of them) and stay and wait until the madness passes then take back the party. However little a fan of Starmer I am he’s clearly far from the worst and centrists of the left had to live through the Corbyn days.

    In reality we aren’t going to have a Tory winning machine for a couple of cycles as too much needs to be fixed so rather than deserting the field and leaving it to the right right stay and be ready to drag it back to sanity.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608

    Leon said:

    The markets are right. Jenrick is favourite

    Let’s face it, none of the candidates is Augustus Caesar, they all have grave flaws. Badenoch is flimsy, Patel is widely disliked, Tugendhat is Who?

    This guy probably has the fewest flaws. He’s young, articulate, not posh - self made. He looks vaguely prime ministerial and he’s quite right wing without being Suella, voters may like that

    Also, it will drive the Corbynite anti-Semites mad if both the PM and the LOTO have “Zio” wives. So it’s worth doing for that alone

    Unfortunately he's also an unelectable careerist dud who's very obviously manoeuvring himself to gain the votes of the remaining hard-line factionalists in the PCP in order to get into the final two.

    Chasing Farage is a mug's game. The threat from the LibDems hoovering up the remaining Home Counties seats (backbone of the Tory party since Lord Salisbury) is far more existential.
    I disagree: the next leader of the Conservative Party has two tasks. The first is neutralize Reform, to get them into the mid single digits opinion poll-wise, and ensuring they don't get a foothold in local government. Now, sure, this won't win them the next election, but before anything else, the Conservatives must make Reform irrelevant.

    Once Reform has been vanquished and the Conservatives have become the only credible party of the right, then they can tack back again towards the centre.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608

    rcs1000 said:

    One aspect of the Trump movement that people tend to overlook is the way in which he ran against the bi-partisan consensus of the Iraq war/WoT era.

    What makes Harris and Walz so difficult for him is that they are not tainted by it and in many ways do project an image of the more self-confident America of the 1990s.

    On the other hand, the withdrawal from Afghanistan (as enacted by Biden, but following Trump's plan) almost certainly led to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
    If they'd never tried to occupy Afghanistan in the first place, there would have been no chaotic withdrawal...
    On the other hand, Al Quaeda would likely still exist.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213

    John Hayes, who was injured tacking the Southport suspect, says he's dismayed by Keir Starmer's response to the riots in a BBC Radio 4 Today interview

    https://x.com/BBCr4today/status/1821133803923939803?t=JWVFloTzqNLkZFMdwCbKJQ&s=19

    I heard that. It was interesting ("I'm not political, but I am dismayed by Starmer and Cooper's response"). He said what lots of people have said - that the government should take account of the concerns of the public.

    But what does he expect exactly? He sounded like a reasonable man, so surely doesn't agree with mobs of thugs trying to unleash a pogrom on muslims and ethnic minorities. So what exactly does he object to about Starmer saying the full force of the law should be brought down on the rioters? Should it not? Should Starmer say "I feel your pain" and endorse them?

    Presumably he wants the government to reduce immigration. They have a policy on immigration and asylum, we've just gone through an election where it was there in their manifesto. Current immigration levels are a result of Tory policy. What more does he want? Again, he seemed a reasonable man, so presumably is not in favour of repatriation.

    All these conversations take place as if the people at the centre of this - migrants and people with different skin colour or religion - don't exist as people. That we should "take account of concerns" that essentially say to a large group of our own citizens that they are not welcome. I wish the BBC in particular would bring a bit more to the forefront the lives and experiences of the people caught up in the middle of this, particularly refugees stuck in those hotels and reception centres who must find the whole thing pretty frightening.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    On one level it brings me great joy to see Jenrick saying these things. It makes it all the more certain that, even if the party were stupid eough to make him Leader, his chances of becoming PM are, to all intents and purposes, zero. Lets have lots more rope for him to hang himself with.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,399
    eek said:

    There’s an interesting phenomenon on TikTok at the moment of liberal white women breaking down in tears because Tim Walz reminds them of their dads before political polarisation affected their relationships.

    They blame this all on losing their dads to the MAGA movement, but if you listen to them, it’s clear that to a large extent they are the ones who have been radicalised and their dads have the same views they always had.

    That's a demonstration of the misremembered idyllic childhood which is equally true of the many people who vote Reform and are rioting at the moment.

    They misremember a "better" country / world that never quite existed which they wish to return to.
    They accurately remember a better country in which small girls could dance to Taylor Swift without being slashed to ribbons by maniac knifemen, which, lest we forget, is what triggered this.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    LDLF said:

    No idea who internally the Tories are happiest with, but as far as appealing to the rest of the electorate is concerned, my opinion (from most to least preferred) would be roughly as follows:

    Tugendhat > Badenoch > Cleverly > Stride > Jenrick > Patel

    To clarify I base this on nothing other than gut instinct. But I say this as a member of no party and swing voter (between Lib Dem and Tory). Frankly all of them have made mistakes, some more recently than others.

    - Tugendhat I think is likely to have the most appeal beyond usual Tory voters and has an 'unimpeachable' sort of vibe (equivalent to Starmer's but without Starmer's somewhat grating sanctimony) that would help to turn the page on the old regime.

    - Badenoch would appear to be the one Labour fears the most (hence they have unleashed upon her their deadliest servant, Pippa Crerar). She is more interesting than both her fans and detractors would perhaps admit; a so-called 'right wing culture warrior' who defends the Equality Act in its current form, and then clearly articulates why; and a Eurosceptic who is willing to confront ERG hardliners. But she gets into so many arguments that she presents a potential risk. Also was a prominent player in the old regime.

    - Cleverly has the vibes of an emollient Ken Clarke type and a self-effacing sense of humour. This has a certain appeal but his jokes have got him in trouble in the past.

    - Stride is, to most of us who are not insiders, a completely unkown quantity. Could go either way but I suspect the reaction would be a general 'meh'.

    - Jenrick has narrowed his appeal with barmy statements and proposals such as this one. A former Cameroon with all the zealoutry of a new convert.

    - The public has already made their mind up about Patel and she appears to be the most disliked of the bunch. The fact that Crerar devotes no time to the rather more substantial allegations surrounding her time in office tells you all you need to know about how little Labour fears Patel as an opponent.

    Amazingly I now find myself ina position where I would not put Patel last. I would actually prefer her to Jenrick - and that is in spite of all the deservedly nasty things I have said about her.

    Hopefully that will not be the choice - not that I hav a vote anyway.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    rcs1000 said:

    One aspect of the Trump movement that people tend to overlook is the way in which he ran against the bi-partisan consensus of the Iraq war/WoT era.

    What makes Harris and Walz so difficult for him is that they are not tainted by it and in many ways do project an image of the more self-confident America of the 1990s.

    On the other hand, the withdrawal from Afghanistan (as enacted by Biden, but following Trump's plan) almost certainly led to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
    If they'd never tried to occupy Afghanistan in the first place, there would have been no chaotic withdrawal...
    They should have got drunk and read The Malakand Field Force.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    kle4 said:

    Jenrick seems most likely to bring back Reform voters? And will he really drive off that many still voting for the Tories, the core voters?

    So he probably will do well in the contest despite or even because of his remarks.

    He looks like a nice safe Cameroon, I don't believe he will frighten anyone. It's bollocks

    There is more to the allegations that he is greedy and the like, but then he's a Tory, greed is to Tories as canting hypocrisy is to Labour. Also, crucially, his greed has made him a rich man, through his own hard work. He is NOT an Old Etonian, he is NOT Rishi the Billionaire

    Also, and finally, the Tories need to be thinking about how to fight the next war, not the last one. They really DO need those Reform voters to return, who is likely to do that, without alienating the centre right?

    It will HAVE to be someone firm on immigration, because - sadly - this pivotal issue is going to dominate from now on, along with the economy

    The Tories have no great choices, Jenrick seems the least bad. Tories should ignore lefties advising them to become like the Lib Dems, that advice is either disingenuous or clueless
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954
    JohnO said:

    Jenrick turned up for a very quickly arranged Chinese dinner last night. Fluent presentation but the usual hard-right shtick to entice the membership. Hey that worked so well in 1997-2005. I berated him for his open support for Trump (well, what a surprise) to which he replied that the GOP is our "sister party".

    No chance of his getting my vote but I fear he'll win. What then after almost 50 years party membership?

    Next week it's drinkkies with Mel.

    So not only does he support Trump, but he does so for a facile reason. If he is the best the Conservatives can come up with they really might be toast.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    The markets are right. Jenrick is favourite

    Let’s face it, none of the candidates is Augustus Caesar, they all have grave flaws. Badenoch is flimsy, Patel is widely disliked, Tugendhat is Who?

    This guy probably has the fewest flaws. He’s young, articulate, not posh - self made. He looks vaguely prime ministerial and he’s quite right wing without being Suella, voters may like that

    Also, it will drive the Corbynite anti-Semites mad if both the PM and the LOTO have “Zio” wives. So it’s worth doing for that alone

    Unfortunately he's also an unelectable careerist dud who's very obviously manoeuvring himself to gain the votes of the remaining hard-line factionalists in the PCP in order to get into the final two.

    Chasing Farage is a mug's game. The threat from the LibDems hoovering up the remaining Home Counties seats (backbone of the Tory party since Lord Salisbury) is far more existential.
    I disagree: the next leader of the Conservative Party has two tasks. The first is neutralize Reform, to get them into the mid single digits opinion poll-wise, and ensuring they don't get a foothold in local government. Now, sure, this won't win them the next election, but before anything else, the Conservatives must make Reform irrelevant.

    Once Reform has been vanquished and the Conservatives have become the only credible party of the right, then they can tack back again towards the centre.
    Yes, exactly right

    What's more, Labour are gonna gift the Tories the opportunity to do all this in one term, by being mega-woke, shite on the economy, probably even worse on the boats, probably as bad on migration, and generally very annoying and whiny

    Starmer only got 24% on a 60% turnout. He is not popular, and he will grow much less popular as all this emerges. Amazingly, the Tories will have a real chance in 2028. But first - as you correctly identify - they have to strangle the Reform viper
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Jenrick seems most likely to bring back Reform voters? And will he really drive off that many still voting for the Tories, the core voters?

    So he probably will do well in the contest despite or even because of his remarks.

    He looks like a nice safe Cameroon, I don't believe he will frighten anyone. It's bollocks

    There is more to the allegations that he is greedy and the like, but then he's a Tory, greed is to Tories as canting hypocrisy is to Labour. Also, crucially, his greed has made him a rich man, through his own hard work. He is NOT an Old Etonian, he is NOT Rishi the Billionaire

    Also, and finally, the Tories need to be thinking about how to fight the next war, not the last one. They really DO need those Reform voters to return, who is likely to do that, without alienating the centre right?

    It will HAVE to be someone firm on immigration, because - sadly - this pivotal issue is going to dominate from now on, along with the economy

    The Tories have no great choices, Jenrick seems the least bad. Tories should ignore lefties advising them to become like the Lib Dems, that advice is either disingenuous or clueless
    I want a BAME Loto, that way I wont have to listen to 5 years of Lefty dross on race and women. Old pasty face Starmer just wont cut it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,399
    eek said:

    eek said:

    There’s an interesting phenomenon on TikTok at the moment of liberal white women breaking down in tears because Tim Walz reminds them of their dads before political polarisation affected their relationships.

    They blame this all on losing their dads to the MAGA movement, but if you listen to them, it’s clear that to a large extent they are the ones who have been radicalised and their dads have the same views they always had.

    That's a demonstration of the misremembered idyllic childhood which is equally true of the many people who vote Reform and are rioting at the moment.

    They misremember a "better" country / world that never quite existed which they wish to return to.
    They accurately remember a better country in which small girls could dance to Taylor Swift without being slashed to ribbons by maniac knifemen, which, lest we forget, is what triggered this.
    No it didn't - a set of lies posted on social media blaming a Muslim asylum seeker triggered the riots.
    Potato, potato.

    And that might be the next point of controversy for two tier Keir. The rioters are being sent down while the Swiftie-killer is still on remand. And what of airport head-stamp man, both the copper and the two who attacked the police? It's all on video so why is no-one in court?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Jenrick seems most likely to bring back Reform voters? And will he really drive off that many still voting for the Tories, the core voters?

    So he probably will do well in the contest despite or even because of his remarks.

    He looks like a nice safe Cameroon, I don't believe he will frighten anyone. It's bollocks

    There is more to the allegations that he is greedy and the like, but then he's a Tory, greed is to Tories as canting hypocrisy is to Labour. Also, crucially, his greed has made him a rich man, through his own hard work. He is NOT an Old Etonian, he is NOT Rishi the Billionaire

    Also, and finally, the Tories need to be thinking about how to fight the next war, not the last one. They really DO need those Reform voters to return, who is likely to do that, without alienating the centre right?

    It will HAVE to be someone firm on immigration, because - sadly - this pivotal issue is going to dominate from now on, along with the economy

    The Tories have no great choices, Jenrick seems the least bad. Tories should ignore lefties advising them to become like the Lib Dems, that advice is either disingenuous or clueless
    I want a BAME Loto, that way I wont have to listen to 5 years of Lefty dross on race and women. Old pasty face Starmer just wont cut it.
    A fair point

    If its not Jenrick, it should be Badenoch. I quite like Patel but she is obviously not liked by trillions of my fellow Brits, so it's pointless

    My fear is that Badenoch is a kind of featherweight ideologue. She's a thinker, she's not a politician. She's brittle and intellectual and a bit globalist. A kind of Davos woman of the right. She's an addition to the party, but leader? No

    However she'd be my second choice. if the Tories go for Cleverly or Tugendhat they are admitting defeat in the next election, too, and also risking destruction by Reform
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,984
    Far be it from me to give the poor old Conservatives some advice though they clearly need all the help they can get.

    You need a leader like Pierre Poilievre in Canada who is a grumpy sod but ruthlessly attacks Trudeau's policy - Trudeau of course has been in Government a lot longer then Starmer.

    As an aside, he rarely mentions what he would do were he to be Canada's next Prime Minister but that worked well for Starmer in all fairness.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    The markets are right. Jenrick is favourite

    Let’s face it, none of the candidates is Augustus Caesar, they all have grave flaws. Badenoch is flimsy, Patel is widely disliked, Tugendhat is Who?

    This guy probably has the fewest flaws. He’s young, articulate, not posh - self made. He looks vaguely prime ministerial and he’s quite right wing without being Suella, voters may like that

    Also, it will drive the Corbynite anti-Semites mad if both the PM and the LOTO have “Zio” wives. So it’s worth doing for that alone

    Unfortunately he's also an unelectable careerist dud who's very obviously manoeuvring himself to gain the votes of the remaining hard-line factionalists in the PCP in order to get into the final two.

    Chasing Farage is a mug's game. The threat from the LibDems hoovering up the remaining Home Counties seats (backbone of the Tory party since Lord Salisbury) is far more existential.
    I disagree: the next leader of the Conservative Party has two tasks. The first is neutralize Reform, to get them into the mid single digits opinion poll-wise, and ensuring they don't get a foothold in local government. Now, sure, this won't win them the next election, but before anything else, the Conservatives must make Reform irrelevant.

    Once Reform has been vanquished and the Conservatives have become the only credible party of the right, then they can tack back again towards the centre.
    Yes, exactly right

    What's more, Labour are gonna gift the Tories the opportunity to do all this in one term, by being mega-woke, shite on the economy, probably even worse on the boats, probably as bad on migration, and generally very annoying and whiny

    Starmer only got 24% on a 60% turnout. He is not popular, and he will grow much less popular as all this emerges. Amazingly, the Tories will have a real chance in 2028. But first - as you correctly identify - they have to strangle the Reform viper
    They need a pact with Reform where Reform stand in those Labour seats the Tories have no chance of winning. The Tory purists are aghast but if Churchill could cut a deal with Stalin then hold your nose. They can then Blue wall until there hearts are content.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    The markets are right. Jenrick is favourite

    Let’s face it, none of the candidates is Augustus Caesar, they all have grave flaws. Badenoch is flimsy, Patel is widely disliked, Tugendhat is Who?

    This guy probably has the fewest flaws. He’s young, articulate, not posh - self made. He looks vaguely prime ministerial and he’s quite right wing without being Suella, voters may like that

    Also, it will drive the Corbynite anti-Semites mad if both the PM and the LOTO have “Zio” wives. So it’s worth doing for that alone

    Unfortunately he's also an unelectable careerist dud who's very obviously manoeuvring himself to gain the votes of the remaining hard-line factionalists in the PCP in order to get into the final two.

    Chasing Farage is a mug's game. The threat from the LibDems hoovering up the remaining Home Counties seats (backbone of the Tory party since Lord Salisbury) is far more existential.
    I disagree: the next leader of the Conservative Party has two tasks. The first is neutralize Reform, to get them into the mid single digits opinion poll-wise, and ensuring they don't get a foothold in local government. Now, sure, this won't win them the next election, but before anything else, the Conservatives must make Reform irrelevant.

    Once Reform has been vanquished and the Conservatives have become the only credible party of the right, then they can tack back again towards the centre.
    Yes, exactly right

    What's more, Labour are gonna gift the Tories the opportunity to do all this in one term, by being mega-woke, shite on the economy, probably even worse on the boats, probably as bad on migration, and generally very annoying and whiny

    Starmer only got 24% on a 60% turnout. He is not popular, and he will grow much less popular as all this emerges. Amazingly, the Tories will have a real chance in 2028. But first - as you correctly identify - they have to strangle the Reform viper
    IIRC a few weeks before the election I made a joke on here about Labour winning a 200 seat majority with 33% of the vote. The joke nearly came true: 170 majority with 33.7%.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    Oh

    @christinafinn8

    Taoiseach Simon Harris says the era of self regulation by social media companies is over

    He’s prepared to meet Elon Musk and other social media company execs to discuss Irish government plans for financial sanctions and personal liabilities for failing to remove harmful content

    https://x.com/christinafinn8/status/1821149335028990404
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    stodge said:

    Far be it from me to give the poor old Conservatives some advice though they clearly need all the help they can get.

    You need a leader like Pierre Poilievre in Canada who is a grumpy sod but ruthlessly attacks Trudeau's policy - Trudeau of course has been in Government a lot longer then Starmer.

    As an aside, he rarely mentions what he would do were he to be Canada's next Prime Minister but that worked well for Starmer in all fairness.

    If Jenrick becomes LOTO it would be a pointless waste of time saying what he would do if he became PM.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    eek said:

    eek said:

    There’s an interesting phenomenon on TikTok at the moment of liberal white women breaking down in tears because Tim Walz reminds them of their dads before political polarisation affected their relationships.

    They blame this all on losing their dads to the MAGA movement, but if you listen to them, it’s clear that to a large extent they are the ones who have been radicalised and their dads have the same views they always had.

    That's a demonstration of the misremembered idyllic childhood which is equally true of the many people who vote Reform and are rioting at the moment.

    They misremember a "better" country / world that never quite existed which they wish to return to.
    They accurately remember a better country in which small girls could dance to Taylor Swift without being slashed to ribbons by maniac knifemen, which, lest we forget, is what triggered this.
    No it didn't - a set of lies posted on social media blaming a Muslim asylum seeker triggered the riots.
    Potato, potato.

    And that might be the next point of controversy for two tier Keir. The rioters are being sent down while the Swiftie-killer is still on remand. And what of airport head-stamp man, both the copper and the two who attacked the police? It's all on video so why is no-one in court?
    This is a very fair question being asked on TwiX. Where are the Manchester police attackers? Have they even been charged?? It's not like there's a lack of evidence

    Brisk justice is all very bracing, but again, is it two tier, Sir Kier?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099

    On one level it brings me great joy to see Jenrick saying these things. It makes it all the more certain that, even if the party were stupid eough to make him Leader, his chances of becoming PM are, to all intents and purposes, zero. Lets have lots more rope for him to hang himself with.

    Leon said:

    The Tories have no great choices, Jenrick seems the least bad.

    One of these takes is correct...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,609
    edited August 7
    Our eldest son and his wife who live in Vancouver together with their fellow citizens have been warned by the Canadian government not to travel to the UK

    Very pleased my wife and my diamond wedding celebrations were in May though our daughter in law is visiting us in October on her way home from an international tourism conference in Portugal
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Scott_xP said:

    Oh

    @christinafinn8

    Taoiseach Simon Harris says the era of self regulation by social media companies is over

    He’s prepared to meet Elon Musk and other social media company execs to discuss Irish government plans for financial sanctions and personal liabilities for failing to remove harmful content

    https://x.com/christinafinn8/status/1821149335028990404

    Faint echoes of The Skibbereen Eagle, here

This discussion has been closed.