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A fortnight on – politicalbetting.com

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  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,239
    Nigelb said:

    RFK Jnr is also fuckin weird.

    Wow. For the longest time it was a Manhattan parlor game to try and come up with a weird enough story to explain how a dead bear cub ended up in Central Park. But no one guessed RFK jr. had to drive to JFK but the dead bear in his van needed to be dropped off first.
    https://x.com/TinaDupuy/status/1820163458354073769

    That’s actually plausible…
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061

    Jenrick says he would vote for Trump.

    Is the tory membership especially in favour of Trump unlike 98% of the rest of UK population?

    Seems odd thing to push out there.

    He didn't 'push it out there' he was asked a question. Perhaps he was just telling the truth - remember that?
    Sure, but it's not an attractive truth - even for his narrow audience.
    Trump is an agent of chaos, not a conservative.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Seen stories in the papers this morning that all six “hunter-killer” subs are out of service due to a lack of dry dock space to fix them so leaving us exposed to Russian threats.

    Call me old fashioned but shouldn’t these sort of stories be suppressed by a D-notice if the editors of the papers don’t care about not letting our enemies know things themselves?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Tamworth Holiday Inn Express now under attack.

    The Labour MP a few days ago:

    https://x.com/sarahedwardstam/status/1818240122103484735

    This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
    Again, for those at the back:

    Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
    In some areas, the block booking of hotels to use for asylum purposes has inconvenienced local business by massively reducing the available hotels rooms.

    In other places, the hotels booked stopped providing amenities like pools and gyms that the residents were using previously. In a fair number of places, a hotel provided swimming pool is the only one, locally.

    So it is perfectly reasonable to question the use of long term block booking hotels vs other options.
    Indeed. And attacking that hotel is neither reasonable nor civilised but, well, a bit Brownshirt.
    Precisely nobody here has condoned the attacking of hotels.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,897
    edited August 5

    ...

    TimS said:

    Tamworth Holiday Inn Express now under attack.

    The Labour MP a few days ago:

    https://x.com/sarahedwardstam/status/1818240122103484735

    This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
    Again, for those at the back:

    Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
    When these hotels are used by the government for asylum seekers they don't just rent out rooms but take over the whole building, so local people who might have previously used the amenities like health clubs or restaurants suddenly can't.
    Putting illegal asylum seekers into hotels. Is this something recently introduced by the Starmer Government?
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Jenrick says he would vote for Trump.

    Is the tory membership especially in favour of Trump unlike 98% of the rest of UK population?

    Seems odd thing to push out there.

    @DavidGauke

    Condemning rioters and backing Trump is not a coherent position.
    Trump caps also spotted amongst the street fighting men. What a surprise.
    Has Trump shill Nigel National-Treasure apologised for prompting the false narrative which stoked up this violence, namely that the Southport alleged murderer was a Syrian Asylum Seeker? No, I thought not.

    Why is Farage getting away with this?
    When parliament resumes and these thicko racists have been swept away and the human beings return there will be a reckoning and Farage will find himself reviled and friendless in a way he has managed to avoid before. His incitement is on record.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,239

    The Conservative Shadow Cabinet are doing some excellent work condemning the riots.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/04/tory-shadow-minister-sorry-riots-justified-police

    To be fair, he was clearly referring to blaming labour as being politically justified. But very badly worded.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    boulay said:

    Seen stories in the papers this morning that all six “hunter-killer” subs are out of service due to a lack of dry dock space to fix them so leaving us exposed to Russian threats.

    Call me old fashioned but shouldn’t these sort of stories be suppressed by a D-notice if the editors of the papers don’t care about not letting our enemies know things themselves?

    Russia would be well aware of this before it hits the Daily Mirror. Our strategic defence is in a very sorry state to be sure but it’s barely featured in the political conversation.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited August 5
    Foxy said:

    A really interesting article on why travel doesn't broaden the mind:

    https://x.com/NewYorker/status/1820316559929196656?t=iVQE0Dg6k8jFODAROeoSOA&s=19

    One of the paradoxes of travel is how travellers are so keen to tick off sights and experiences while travelling, but so reluctant to engage and meet with the people who travel to visit us. They are considered a nuisance or worse in our own cities. There is a world of experience to be had with our neighbours, but that seems to pale compared the attraction of visiting some far off place for a selfie and to Instagram dinner, a church or a view.

    A wise man observed that it was far better for the soul to visit one Cathedral a hundred times than a hundred Cathedrals once.

    Change church for setting light to Holiday Inn, and you have the current riot tourists.

    On a more serious note, it is another negative of social media, the "IT" trends on Instagram, people all rush there, take their own Instagram photo and leave, achievement unlocked.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    moonshine said:

    boulay said:

    Seen stories in the papers this morning that all six “hunter-killer” subs are out of service due to a lack of dry dock space to fix them so leaving us exposed to Russian threats.

    Call me old fashioned but shouldn’t these sort of stories be suppressed by a D-notice if the editors of the papers don’t care about not letting our enemies know things themselves?

    Russia would be well aware of this before it hits the Daily Mirror. Our strategic defence is in a very sorry state to be sure but it’s barely featured in the political conversation.
    It's not just the NHS and Civil Justice system that has been run into the ground by the last government. It is pretty much every bit of public life.

    They fly their flags but allow the Royal Navy to rust, with crews unfilled.

    It's going to take a long time and a lot of money to become a functioning country again.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    Rishi Sunak with a quality statement.

    https://x.com/rishisunak/status/1820132969513664691?s=61
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,293
    Foxy said:

    A really interesting article on why travel doesn't broaden the mind:

    https://x.com/NewYorker/status/1820316559929196656?t=iVQE0Dg6k8jFODAROeoSOA&s=19

    One of the paradoxes of travel is how travellers are so keen to tick off sights and experiences while travelling, but so reluctant to engage and meet with the people who travel to visit us. They are considered a nuisance or worse in our own cities. There is a world of experience to be had with our neighbours, but that seems to pale compared the attraction of visiting some far off place for a selfie and to Instagram dinner, a church or a view.

    A wise man observed that it was far better for the soul to visit one Cathedral a hundred times than a hundred Cathedrals once.

    Very true, and i recognise myself in some of those vignettes
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549
    Foxy said:

    A really interesting article on why travel doesn't broaden the mind:

    https://x.com/NewYorker/status/1820316559929196656?t=iVQE0Dg6k8jFODAROeoSOA&s=19

    One of the paradoxes of travel is how travellers are so keen to tick off sights and experiences while travelling, but so reluctant to engage and meet with the people who travel to visit us. They are considered a nuisance or worse in our own cities. There is a world of experience to be had with our neighbours, but that seems to pale compared the attraction of visiting some far off place for a selfie and to Instagram dinner, a church or a view.

    A wise man observed that it was far better for the soul to visit one Cathedral a hundred times than a hundred Cathedrals once.

    I chatted to one of the Italian guides whilst I was at Pompeii last year. She said many American tourists pay to enter, haul themselves up to the forum area, then leave to spend more time in the gift shop than at the actual site - just so they could say they had 'done' Pompeii. To my surprise, she also singled out Canadians as doing the same.

    And when we were on HMS Warrior a few months back, a very attractive young lady went int the captain's cabin whilst videoing herself - presumably for a vlog. She walked in, read a noticeboard into the camera, then flounced out. She got no details, none of the interesting or fascinating little details in that room. And certainly none of the ambiance.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    edited August 5
    boulay said:

    Seen stories in the papers this morning that all six “hunter-killer” subs are out of service due to a lack of dry dock space to fix them so leaving us exposed to Russian threats.

    Call me old fashioned but shouldn’t these sort of stories be suppressed by a D-notice if the editors of the papers don’t care about not letting our enemies know things themselves?

    There's only 5. Agamemnon and Agincourt are still under construction or commissioning. They've only been working on Agamemnon for 11 years, let's not rush them.

    There's no point in denying it or concealing it. The Russians/Chinese/Americans/Welsh have agents, eyes and satellites so they can see all five/six are in Devonport. They're not exactly small.

    The Russians operate crowdsourced intelligence gathering in Ukraine by announcing that they need pictures of X location and will pay ₿ Y for it on Telegram. The Ukrainians do similar but they'll also pay if you fancy blowing up an oil refinery or something. This is almost impossible to detect or counter and I assume they do the same in the UK.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    A really interesting article on why travel doesn't broaden the mind:

    https://x.com/NewYorker/status/1820316559929196656?t=iVQE0Dg6k8jFODAROeoSOA&s=19

    One of the paradoxes of travel is how travellers are so keen to tick off sights and experiences while travelling, but so reluctant to engage and meet with the people who travel to visit us. They are considered a nuisance or worse in our own cities. There is a world of experience to be had with our neighbours, but that seems to pale compared the attraction of visiting some far off place for a selfie and to Instagram dinner, a church or a view.

    A wise man observed that it was far better for the soul to visit one Cathedral a hundred times than a hundred Cathedrals once.

    Very true, and i recognise myself in some of those vignettes
    Yes, and me too.

    Why is it that I have visited mosques in Istanbul, Cairo, and Morocco but not one in Leicester? Synagogues in Jerusalem and Budapest but not Leicester? In part I suppose because Leicester's are of less architectural and historic significance, but it does show a lack of curiosity.

    I think I need to change my ways.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    edited August 5
    Leon said:

    You know what. I’m nearly done here

    If you want to drive every sane or civilised right wing voice off the site then carry on exactly as you are and I will indeed leave. And this time I won’t come back

    And this site will turn into an insanely boring pile of shite where centrist lefty dads discuss the fucking west coast main line. And it will finally die

    Who among our 'sane and civilised right wing voices' are you expecting to leave with you?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Jenrick says he would vote for Trump.

    Is the tory membership especially in favour of Trump unlike 98% of the rest of UK population?

    Seems odd thing to push out there.

    He didn't 'push it out there' he was asked a question. Perhaps he was just telling the truth - remember that?
    The fact that Jenrick, Johnson and Truss have all said they would vote for, or support Trump, is quite interesting. No poster on this website has said they would vote for Trump as far as I know. This supports my theory that this website has become a centre left hive/bubble. Even the outliers (like @Leon ) are to the left of mainstream thinking in the conservative party.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Leon said:

    You know what. I’m nearly done here
    And this time I won’t come back

    As fucking if.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,076
    Wow Nikkei is down over 12% so far today.

    Looks like it might be an 'interesting' day in the markets.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    edited August 5
    Nigelb said:

    Jenrick says he would vote for Trump.

    Is the tory membership especially in favour of Trump unlike 98% of the rest of UK population?

    Seems odd thing to push out there.

    He didn't 'push it out there' he was asked a question. Perhaps he was just telling the truth - remember that?
    Sure, but it's not an attractive truth - even for his narrow audience.
    Trump is an agent of chaos, not a conservative.
    Tell the truth. Explain why you hold the opinion that you do. People may not agree, but they'll respect you if your reasons are sound. It's a refreshing change from Sir Keir 'Joe Biden was extremely sharp and on the ball' Starmer.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    darkage said:

    Jenrick says he would vote for Trump.

    Is the tory membership especially in favour of Trump unlike 98% of the rest of UK population?

    Seems odd thing to push out there.

    He didn't 'push it out there' he was asked a question. Perhaps he was just telling the truth - remember that?
    The fact that Jenrick, Johnson and Truss have all said they would vote for, or support Trump, is quite interesting. No poster on this website has said they would vote for Trump as far as I know. This supports my theory that this website has become a centre left hive/bubble. Even the outliers (like @Leon ) are to the left of mainstream thinking in the conservative party.
    I'd have voted for him over Biden. I don't know enough about Harris yet to know whether I'd do the same against her.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Scott_xP said:

    Babbage9 said:

    They are both completely functional yet also romantic. I can’t think of any British motorway that does that. Some American freeways do manage this.

    the M6 through Cumbria comes close
    The M50 through Herefordshire is another possible. I think it's unique among British motorways in that it serves no major conurbations, just ambling through some beautiful wooded countryside past three small towns (Ledbury, Newent and Ross) ending with a fine view of the Black Mountains.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549
    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    A really interesting article on why travel doesn't broaden the mind:

    https://x.com/NewYorker/status/1820316559929196656?t=iVQE0Dg6k8jFODAROeoSOA&s=19

    One of the paradoxes of travel is how travellers are so keen to tick off sights and experiences while travelling, but so reluctant to engage and meet with the people who travel to visit us. They are considered a nuisance or worse in our own cities. There is a world of experience to be had with our neighbours, but that seems to pale compared the attraction of visiting some far off place for a selfie and to Instagram dinner, a church or a view.

    A wise man observed that it was far better for the soul to visit one Cathedral a hundred times than a hundred Cathedrals once.

    Very true, and i recognise myself in some of those vignettes
    Yes, and me too.

    Why is it that I have visited mosques in Istanbul, Cairo, and Morocco but not one in Leicester? Synagogues in Jerusalem and Budapest but not Leicester? In part I suppose because Leicester's are of less architectural and historic significance, but it does show a lack of curiosity.

    I think I need to change my ways.
    I think it's fairly common not to visit places near where you live. When I lived in London there were loads of museums that I did not visit, yet I will now travel to visit them. And it's not just age - back then I would travel to visit other museums and places.

    In the last few years I've run nearly every road and path in a very large area around my home. I've discovered loads of places and things that are quite wonderful in understated ways. For instance, this communal bakehouse in Papworth St Agnes:
    https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1164387

    But there are still places that I've been past, but have yet to go in and visit.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    darkage said:

    Jenrick says he would vote for Trump.

    Is the tory membership especially in favour of Trump unlike 98% of the rest of UK population?

    Seems odd thing to push out there.

    He didn't 'push it out there' he was asked a question. Perhaps he was just telling the truth - remember that?
    The fact that Jenrick, Johnson and Truss have all said they would vote for, or support Trump, is quite interesting. No poster on this website has said they would vote for Trump as far as I know. This supports my theory that this website has become a centre left hive/bubble. Even the outliers (like @Leon ) are to the left of mainstream thinking in the conservative party.
    @williamglenn has always been a Trump supporter, even in his eurofanatic days, and there are others who are clearly sympathetic such as @Sandpit.

    We cover a pretty good spectrum of UK political opinion (despite being nearly entirely male), but UK political opinion is different to the USA.

    "Overall, 14% are favourable towards Donald Trump and 71% are unfavourable, including 83% of 2019 Labour voters, 83% of Remain voters, two-thirds of 2019 Conservative voters (67%) and 65% of Leave voters."

    https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/7-in-10-britons-hold-an-unfavourable-opinion-of-donald-trump-2024-election

    Which is always an obstacle when trying to evaluate USA betting markets. It's hard to believe that Americans are daft enough to vote Trump, but they clearly are.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    Ratters said:

    Wow Nikkei is down over 12% so far today.

    Looks like it might be an 'interesting' day in the markets.

    The reason being?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    BBC News - No 10 to hold emergency Cobra meeting after weekend of violence
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpwddpzyxpzo
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    darkage said:

    No poster on this website has said they would vote for Trump as far as I know.

    I would but I'd be doing it ironically so I don't know if that counts.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    A really interesting article on why travel doesn't broaden the mind:

    https://x.com/NewYorker/status/1820316559929196656?t=iVQE0Dg6k8jFODAROeoSOA&s=19

    One of the paradoxes of travel is how travellers are so keen to tick off sights and experiences while travelling, but so reluctant to engage and meet with the people who travel to visit us. They are considered a nuisance or worse in our own cities. There is a world of experience to be had with our neighbours, but that seems to pale compared the attraction of visiting some far off place for a selfie and to Instagram dinner, a church or a view.

    A wise man observed that it was far better for the soul to visit one Cathedral a hundred times than a hundred Cathedrals once.

    Very true, and i recognise myself in some of those vignettes
    Yes, and me too.

    Why is it that I have visited mosques in Istanbul, Cairo, and Morocco but not one in Leicester? Synagogues in Jerusalem and Budapest but not Leicester? In part I suppose because Leicester's are of less architectural and historic significance, but it does show a lack of curiosity.

    I think I need to change my ways.
    I think it's fairly common not to visit places near where you live. When I lived in London there were loads of museums that I did not visit, yet I will now travel to visit them. And it's not just age - back then I would travel to visit other museums and places.

    In the last few years I've run nearly every road and path in a very large area around my home. I've discovered loads of places and things that are quite wonderful in understated ways. For instance, this communal bakehouse in Papworth St Agnes:
    https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1164387

    But there are still places that I've been past, but have yet to go in and visit.
    I go to the Isle of Wight every couple of months, yet there is plenty there I haven't seen.

    When my youngest son was born we didn't want to take him abroad just 2 months old, so booked a hotel off Regents Park (lots of good deals as that was the summer of Foot and Mouth, and a lot of foreign tourists had cancelled) and did all the tourist sights with him asleep and his brother with the curiosity of a 6 year old. It was quite fun and we saw in a week more sights than I had in my six years in London.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    That's not what they article you linked says. They fear there might be one, which is a different thing.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:

    No poster on this website has said they would vote for Trump as far as I know.

    I would but I'd be doing it ironically so I don't know if that counts.
    That still counts, Law of Goats.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Nikkei just closed 12.4% down on the day, following a 5% loss on Friday.

    European stock markets are about to open, who’s along for what’s looking like a very bumpy ride?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549
    Incidentally; last year I met a lady who was travelling around the country in an attempt to swim in every public pool in the UK. I think she was doing three or four that day alone.

    A god way of travelling to see the country. And ruining your hair with chlorine...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    You know what. I’m nearly done here
    And this time I won’t come back

    As fucking if.
    He just won't be able to keep away when we start discussing the importance of electrifying the Far Northern Line to Wick.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865

    BBC News - No 10 to hold emergency Cobra meeting after weekend of violence
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpwddpzyxpzo

    At last.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620

    NEW THREAD

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    A really interesting article on why travel doesn't broaden the mind:

    https://x.com/NewYorker/status/1820316559929196656?t=iVQE0Dg6k8jFODAROeoSOA&s=19

    One of the paradoxes of travel is how travellers are so keen to tick off sights and experiences while travelling, but so reluctant to engage and meet with the people who travel to visit us. They are considered a nuisance or worse in our own cities. There is a world of experience to be had with our neighbours, but that seems to pale compared the attraction of visiting some far off place for a selfie and to Instagram dinner, a church or a view.

    A wise man observed that it was far better for the soul to visit one Cathedral a hundred times than a hundred Cathedrals once.

    Very true, and i recognise myself in some of those vignettes
    Yes, and me too.

    Why is it that I have visited mosques in Istanbul, Cairo, and Morocco but not one in Leicester? Synagogues in Jerusalem and Budapest but not Leicester? In part I suppose because Leicester's are of less architectural and historic significance, but it does show a lack of curiosity.

    I think I need to change my ways.
    I think it's fairly common not to visit places near where you live. When I lived in London there were loads of museums that I did not visit, yet I will now travel to visit them. And it's not just age - back then I would travel to visit other museums and places.

    In the last few years I've run nearly every road and path in a very large area around my home. I've discovered loads of places and things that are quite wonderful in understated ways. For instance, this communal bakehouse in Papworth St Agnes:
    https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1164387

    But there are still places that I've been past, but have yet to go in and visit.
    I go to the Isle of Wight every couple of months, yet there is plenty there I haven't seen.

    When my youngest son was born we didn't want to take him abroad just 2 months old, so booked a hotel off Regents Park (lots of good deals as that was the summer of Foot and Mouth, and a lot of foreign tourists had cancelled) and did all the tourist sights with him asleep and his brother with the curiosity of a 6 year old. It was quite fun and we saw in a week more sights than I had in my six years in London.
    Some interesting points in that article - but it hardly proves what it says

    Travel broadens the mind simply because - if you travel widely enough - you encounter multiple different human ways of doing, thinking, seeing, acting, loving, working, fighting, dying. And in the end you are forced to ask why they do this, and whether it is superior or inferior to your own ways. Or just fascinatingly different

    Will all credit to ventnor, you don’t get that on the Isle of Wight
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Ratters said:

    Wow Nikkei is down over 12% so far today.

    Looks like it might be an 'interesting' day in the markets.

    The reason being?
    IIUC the main reason is that the Bank of Japan put up interest rates and the yen started becoming stronger. It's still insanely weak, but not as much as it was - for example, last week I went out for lunch with a visitor from Britain and came back from the loo at the end to find him in front of the till engaged in a heated argument with the restaurant staff because he couldn't believe it could possibly be that cheap. This in turn has hit people who have been borrowing JPY and selling them for USD and earning USD interest. These people were caught on the hop and had to hurriedly reverse their positions, which increased JPY further and caused a cascade, and people also had to sell other stuff to cover their losses.

    Then a lot of the drop is just the mechanical effect of the currency, because a lot of the companies involved are international so if the yen is worth more and they're worth the same then they're worth fewer yen. But there's also various stuff going down in the middle-east and weak US jobs data which means you have to be a little bit braver than usual to bargain-hunt.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865
    Good for Trump, perhaps, since Americans are more likely than us to have invested in the stock market and notice they are getting poorer.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    A really interesting article on why travel doesn't broaden the mind:

    https://x.com/NewYorker/status/1820316559929196656?t=iVQE0Dg6k8jFODAROeoSOA&s=19

    One of the paradoxes of travel is how travellers are so keen to tick off sights and experiences while travelling, but so reluctant to engage and meet with the people who travel to visit us. They are considered a nuisance or worse in our own cities. There is a world of experience to be had with our neighbours, but that seems to pale compared the attraction of visiting some far off place for a selfie and to Instagram dinner, a church or a view.

    A wise man observed that it was far better for the soul to visit one Cathedral a hundred times than a hundred Cathedrals once.

    Very true, and i recognise myself in some of those vignettes
    Yes, and me too.

    Why is it that I have visited mosques in Istanbul, Cairo, and Morocco but not one in Leicester? Synagogues in Jerusalem and Budapest but not Leicester? In part I suppose because Leicester's are of less architectural and historic significance, but it does show a lack of curiosity.

    I think I need to change my ways.
    I think it's fairly common not to visit places near where you live. When I lived in London there were loads of museums that I did not visit, yet I will now travel to visit them. And it's not just age - back then I would travel to visit other museums and places.

    In the last few years I've run nearly every road and path in a very large area around my home. I've discovered loads of places and things that are quite wonderful in understated ways. For instance, this communal bakehouse in Papworth St Agnes:
    https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1164387

    But there are still places that I've been past, but have yet to go in and visit.
    One of the many things that I love about Britain is the layers of things of interest to see. We are surrounded by them. I lived in NZ for a year and really missed that. Christchurch was a lovely city, but nothing over 150 years old, and when climbing a hill on the South Island, there wasn't an interesting village or old pub or ancient ruin, just another hill or lake. Pretty, but lacking the cultural intensity and depth, and often ugliness that I have grown up with.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061

    Ratters said:

    Wow Nikkei is down over 12% so far today.

    Looks like it might be an 'interesting' day in the markets.

    The reason being?
    Principally, the rise in Japanese interest rates > stronger yen > pressure on their exporters, at a time when domestic demand is weak.
    It also makes it more costly to borrow to buy shares; zero to 0.25% doesn't sound like much, but it's significant in terms of expectations.

    And no one knows WTF will happen in the US in November.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,897
    This could be one of those moments when the dawn really does follow the darkest night. These racist thugs and their fellow travellers have now exposed themselves for what they are. There is no getting away from it or hiding.
    The burning hotels with people in them are on camera. They have backed themselves into a dark corner and their words and behaviour are a matter of record

    Even the right wing press have disowned them and are feigning disgust. This could be the moment when agitators like Lawrence Fox and Nigel Farage and several notable Tories face their reckoning. Oddly enough I cant think of anyone I'd prefer to have in charge at this particular moment than SKS
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited August 5
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    A really interesting article on why travel doesn't broaden the mind:

    https://x.com/NewYorker/status/1820316559929196656?t=iVQE0Dg6k8jFODAROeoSOA&s=19

    One of the paradoxes of travel is how travellers are so keen to tick off sights and experiences while travelling, but so reluctant to engage and meet with the people who travel to visit us. They are considered a nuisance or worse in our own cities. There is a world of experience to be had with our neighbours, but that seems to pale compared the attraction of visiting some far off place for a selfie and to Instagram dinner, a church or a view.

    A wise man observed that it was far better for the soul to visit one Cathedral a hundred times than a hundred Cathedrals once.

    Very true, and i recognise myself in some of those vignettes
    Yes, and me too.

    Why is it that I have visited mosques in Istanbul, Cairo, and Morocco but not one in Leicester? Synagogues in Jerusalem and Budapest but not Leicester? In part I suppose because Leicester's are of less architectural and historic significance, but it does show a lack of curiosity.

    I think I need to change my ways.
    I think it's fairly common not to visit places near where you live. When I lived in London there were loads of museums that I did not visit, yet I will now travel to visit them. And it's not just age - back then I would travel to visit other museums and places.

    In the last few years I've run nearly every road and path in a very large area around my home. I've discovered loads of places and things that are quite wonderful in understated ways. For instance, this communal bakehouse in Papworth St Agnes:
    https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1164387

    But there are still places that I've been past, but have yet to go in and visit.
    I go to the Isle of Wight every couple of months, yet there is plenty there I haven't seen.

    When my youngest son was born we didn't want to take him abroad just 2 months old, so booked a hotel off Regents Park (lots of good deals as that was the summer of Foot and Mouth, and a lot of foreign tourists had cancelled) and did all the tourist sights with him asleep and his brother with the curiosity of a 6 year old. It was quite fun and we saw in a week more sights than I had in my six years in London.
    Some interesting points in that article - but it hardly proves what it says

    Travel broadens the mind simply because - if you travel widely enough - you encounter multiple different human ways of doing, thinking, seeing, acting, loving, working, fighting, dying. And in the end you are forced to ask why they do this, and whether it is superior or inferior to your own ways. Or just fascinatingly different

    Will all credit to ventnor, you don’t get that on the Isle of Wight
    You don't get that anywhere; living proof that despite tons of travel you can still wash up as a narrow-minded credulous cretin.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    edited August 5
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    A really interesting article on why travel doesn't broaden the mind:

    https://x.com/NewYorker/status/1820316559929196656?t=iVQE0Dg6k8jFODAROeoSOA&s=19

    One of the paradoxes of travel is how travellers are so keen to tick off sights and experiences while travelling, but so reluctant to engage and meet with the people who travel to visit us. They are considered a nuisance or worse in our own cities. There is a world of experience to be had with our neighbours, but that seems to pale compared the attraction of visiting some far off place for a selfie and to Instagram dinner, a church or a view.

    A wise man observed that it was far better for the soul to visit one Cathedral a hundred times than a hundred Cathedrals once.

    Very true, and i recognise myself in some of those vignettes
    Yes, and me too.

    Why is it that I have visited mosques in Istanbul, Cairo, and Morocco but not one in Leicester? Synagogues in Jerusalem and Budapest but not Leicester? In part I suppose because Leicester's are of less architectural and historic significance, but it does show a lack of curiosity.

    I think I need to change my ways.
    I think it's fairly common not to visit places near where you live. When I lived in London there were loads of museums that I did not visit, yet I will now travel to visit them. And it's not just age - back then I would travel to visit other museums and places.

    In the last few years I've run nearly every road and path in a very large area around my home. I've discovered loads of places and things that are quite wonderful in understated ways. For instance, this communal bakehouse in Papworth St Agnes:
    https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1164387

    But there are still places that I've been past, but have yet to go in and visit.
    One of the many things that I love about Britain is the layers of things of interest to see. We are surrounded by them. I lived in NZ for a year and really missed that. Christchurch was a lovely city, but nothing over 150 years old, and when climbing a hill on the South Island, there wasn't an interesting village or old pub or ancient ruin, just another hill or lake. Pretty, but lacking the cultural intensity and depth, and often ugliness that I have grown up with.
    Yes, this is where Europe has the world beat. The millefeuille of history

    I’m sitting in a little square in Béziers. It’s the oldest city in France. The piazza is probably 200 years old. The streets behind me 400 years old. The cathedral 5 minutes away was built in the 13th century after the great massacres of the Albigensian crusade

    Down the road ten minutes are the ruins of a Roman arena. Around them are the scattered remnants of a Greek settlement dating from about 500BC
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    A really interesting article on why travel doesn't broaden the mind:

    https://x.com/NewYorker/status/1820316559929196656?t=iVQE0Dg6k8jFODAROeoSOA&s=19

    One of the paradoxes of travel is how travellers are so keen to tick off sights and experiences while travelling, but so reluctant to engage and meet with the people who travel to visit us. They are considered a nuisance or worse in our own cities. There is a world of experience to be had with our neighbours, but that seems to pale compared the attraction of visiting some far off place for a selfie and to Instagram dinner, a church or a view.

    A wise man observed that it was far better for the soul to visit one Cathedral a hundred times than a hundred Cathedrals once.

    Very true, and i recognise myself in some of those vignettes
    Yes, and me too.

    Why is it that I have visited mosques in Istanbul, Cairo, and Morocco but not one in Leicester? Synagogues in Jerusalem and Budapest but not Leicester? In part I suppose because Leicester's are of less architectural and historic significance, but it does show a lack of curiosity.

    I think I need to change my ways.
    I think it's fairly common not to visit places near where you live. When I lived in London there were loads of museums that I did not visit, yet I will now travel to visit them. And it's not just age - back then I would travel to visit other museums and places.

    In the last few years I've run nearly every road and path in a very large area around my home. I've discovered loads of places and things that are quite wonderful in understated ways. For instance, this communal bakehouse in Papworth St Agnes:
    https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1164387

    But there are still places that I've been past, but have yet to go in and visit.
    I go to the Isle of Wight every couple of months, yet there is plenty there I haven't seen.

    When my youngest son was born we didn't want to take him abroad just 2 months old, so booked a hotel off Regents Park (lots of good deals as that was the summer of Foot and Mouth, and a lot of foreign tourists had cancelled) and did all the tourist sights with him asleep and his brother with the curiosity of a 6 year old. It was quite fun and we saw in a week more sights than I had in my six years in London.
    Some interesting points in that article - but it hardly proves what it says

    Travel broadens the mind simply because - if you travel widely enough - you encounter multiple different human ways of doing, thinking, seeing, acting, loving, working, fighting, dying. And in the end you are forced to ask why they do this, and whether it is superior or inferior to your own ways. Or just fascinatingly different

    Will all credit to ventnor, you don’t get that on the Isle of Wight
    You don't get that anywhere; living proof that despite tons of travel you can still wash up as a narrow-minded credulous cretin.
    I always imagined it was your extensive foreign travels, broadening your mind, that gave you the bravery to experiment with man-dog love, despite all the net curtain twitchers at home “ooh Ian’s at it with ‘iz poor old dog again”

    Was it not? Apologies if so
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,513
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Babbage9 said:

    They are both completely functional yet also romantic. I can’t think of any British motorway that does that. Some American freeways do manage this.

    the M6 through Cumbria comes close
    The M50 through Herefordshire is another possible. I think it's unique among British motorways in that it serves no major conurbations, just ambling through some beautiful wooded countryside past three small towns (Ledbury, Newent and Ross) ending with a fine view of the Black Mountains.
    The "Ross spur", as I know it, was built before the M5 was built southwards from the M50/M5 junction.
    Its aim was to better link South Wales with the Midlands.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Babbage9 said:

    They are both completely functional yet also romantic. I can’t think of any British motorway that does that. Some American freeways do manage this.

    the M6 through Cumbria comes close
    The M50 through Herefordshire is another possible. I think it's unique among British motorways in that it serves no major conurbations, just ambling through some beautiful wooded countryside past three small towns (Ledbury, Newent and Ross) ending with a fine view of the Black Mountains.
    The "Ross spur", as I know it, was built before the M5 was built southwards from the M50/M5 junction.
    Its aim was to better link South Wales with the Midlands.
    It has railway bridges for two lines - one from Tewkesbury to Malvern that closed under Beeching, and one from Gloucester to Ledbury that didn't even make it to the Beeching era!
  • Babbage9Babbage9 Posts: 10
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Babbage9 said:

    They are both completely functional yet also romantic. I can’t think of any British motorway that does that. Some American freeways do manage this.

    the M6 through Cumbria comes close
    The M50 through Herefordshire is another possible. I think it's unique among British motorways in that it serves no major conurbations, just ambling through some beautiful wooded countryside past three small towns (Ledbury, Newent and Ross) ending with a fine view of the Black Mountains.
    The "Ross spur", as I know it, was built before the M5 was built southwards from the M50/M5 junction.
    Its aim was to better link South Wales with the Midlands.
    It has railway bridges for two lines - one from Tewkesbury to Malvern that closed under Beeching, and one from Gloucester to Ledbury that didn't even make it to the Beeching era!
    The M50's bridge over the River Wye is a sight to behold, spanning 220 meters. For the true aficionados, Junction 4 is the only example of a trumpet interchange on the M50!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Babbage9 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Babbage9 said:

    They are both completely functional yet also romantic. I can’t think of any British motorway that does that. Some American freeways do manage this.

    the M6 through Cumbria comes close
    The M50 through Herefordshire is another possible. I think it's unique among British motorways in that it serves no major conurbations, just ambling through some beautiful wooded countryside past three small towns (Ledbury, Newent and Ross) ending with a fine view of the Black Mountains.
    The "Ross spur", as I know it, was built before the M5 was built southwards from the M50/M5 junction.
    Its aim was to better link South Wales with the Midlands.
    It has railway bridges for two lines - one from Tewkesbury to Malvern that closed under Beeching, and one from Gloucester to Ledbury that didn't even make it to the Beeching era!
    The M50's bridge over the River Wye is a sight to behold, spanning 220 meters. For the true aficionados, Junction 4 is the only example of a trumpet interchange on the M50!
    The River Severn, but yes.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,239

    Foxy said:

    A really interesting article on why travel doesn't broaden the mind:

    https://x.com/NewYorker/status/1820316559929196656?t=iVQE0Dg6k8jFODAROeoSOA&s=19

    One of the paradoxes of travel is how travellers are so keen to tick off sights and experiences while travelling, but so reluctant to engage and meet with the people who travel to visit us. They are considered a nuisance or worse in our own cities. There is a world of experience to be had with our neighbours, but that seems to pale compared the attraction of visiting some far off place for a selfie and to Instagram dinner, a church or a view.

    A wise man observed that it was far better for the soul to visit one Cathedral a hundred times than a hundred Cathedrals once.

    I chatted to one of the Italian guides whilst I was at Pompeii last year. She said many American tourists pay to enter, haul themselves up to the forum area, then leave to spend more time in the gift shop than at the actual site - just so they could say they had 'done' Pompeii. To my surprise, she also singled out Canadians as doing the same.

    And when we were on HMS Warrior a few months back, a very attractive young lady went int the captain's cabin whilst videoing herself - presumably for a vlog. She walked in, read a noticeboard into the camera, then
    flounced out. She got no details, none of the interesting or fascinating little details in that room. And certainly none of the ambiance.
    You are doing it for entertainment in your spare time. For her it is a job
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    A really interesting article on why travel doesn't broaden the mind:

    https://x.com/NewYorker/status/1820316559929196656?t=iVQE0Dg6k8jFODAROeoSOA&s=19

    One of the paradoxes of travel is how travellers are so keen to tick off sights and experiences while travelling, but so reluctant to engage and meet with the people who travel to visit us. They are considered a nuisance or worse in our own cities. There is a world of experience to be had with our neighbours, but that seems to pale compared the attraction of visiting some far off place for a selfie and to Instagram dinner, a church or a view.

    A wise man observed that it was far better for the soul to visit one Cathedral a hundred times than a hundred Cathedrals once.

    Very true, and i recognise myself in some of those vignettes
    Yes, and me too.

    Why is it that I have visited mosques in Istanbul, Cairo, and Morocco but not one in Leicester? Synagogues in Jerusalem and Budapest but not Leicester? In part I suppose because Leicester's are of less architectural and historic significance, but it does show a lack of curiosity.

    I think I need to change my ways.
    I have a mate who is a teacher who went on a school trip to Leicester to see a mosque and a gurdwara.

    He was very impressed with the Sikhs but less so with the Muslims - they treated the female teacher in the group as an inferior.
This discussion has been closed.