Just watched Starmer’s speech from this afternoon. An odd statement. The law and order aspect in terms of wanting to restore order was on point.
But he then completely undid that with a frankly incredible insinuation that white racists have held a monopoly over violence this week. Anyone with a smart phone can see that’s not been the case and that we’re facing something more complex than a hardcore of No Surrender types causing unprovoked trouble.
If you don't want to be insinuated don't take part in racist violent thuggery, or encourage it. Starmer isn't obliged to say, and for the sake of balance what about these other people?
I'm content for the courts to deal with the lot of them. Starmer isn't involved.
A rather puzzling take. He chose to make his speech overtly political, in a way that is unlikely to calm tensions. And which over the medium term, may well undermine his own position.
Two tier Keir is a dangerous moniker that could stick. He'll need to tread carefully. And it isn't true that all the counter protesters have been multi-cultural and peaceful. We've had gangs of muslim men charging around chanting Allahu Akbar. They may be unhappy with things they've seen in recent days but that's not likely to help.
It only increases my admiration for our Jewish population who have retained an incredibly dignified civility in spite of everything that they have experienced over the last nine months.
What exactly is wrong with chanting "Allahu Akbar"?
We had similar outrage on PB a few months back when a Muslim councillor said it in celebration after being elected in Bradford. What exactly is wrong with it?
Like, I'm completely non-religious myself, but I really fail to see the problem here. Do you equally criticise people like Tim Farron, Cat Smith, or Miriam Cates for talking about their god?
There is nothing 'wrong' with it as such but as an atheist I find such public displays of religion - particularly by elected representatives - to be somewhat offputting. And yes I would feel exactly the same way if it was someone saying 'Praise Jesus' after they had been elected. I don't think it should be banned or probably even overtly criticised but it would make me think twice about voting for someone.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
When these hotels are used by the government for asylum seekers they don't just rent out rooms but take over the whole building, so local people who might have previously used the amenities like health clubs or restaurants suddenly can't.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
They want a Holiday Inn Express back? I'd want it moved out of town.
Is the tory membership especially in favour of Trump unlike 98% of the rest of UK population?
Seems odd thing to push out there.
Well it shows that Jenrick is quite plainly a bloody idiot who should be nowhere near the leadership of any political party. A Tory politician siding with Trump might as well cut out the middle man and pledge allegiance to Putin.
I like to think that will be a step too far, but we’ve seen it happening in the US. The British right may be somewhat immunised from this by the Putinphilia of parts of the far left here.
Don't start your criticism of immigration levels with "The Muslims" or "The Jews"...
More generally, if you’re protesting then protest against the government (this one or the previous one) and the policy, not against the people it concerns. Or even, as in this case, attacking people who aren’t necessarily immigrants but have the same religion or skin colour as some immigrants.
It’s a simple distinction. Protesting Israeli action in Gaza: fine. Firebombing British synagogues: not fine. Protesting abortion policy: fine. Standing outside a clinic heckling young women: not fine. Protesting against vivisection: fine. Sending death threats to people working at vivisection labs: not fine.
It not rocket science. See the anti-Brexit marches.
Or the Countryside Alliance marches 20 years ago, or actually numerous marches that go off without any issue dozens of times every year.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
When these hotels are used by the government for asylum seekers they don't just rent out rooms but take over the whole building, so local people who might have previously used the amenities like health clubs or restaurants suddenly can't.
Are there any left wingers here who definitely aren’t racist and want immigration reduced?
Are there any left wingers who don’t think Islam is a great thing to import en masse?
Are there any left wingers at least a little bit scared of Islamism?
In some ways I don't feel I can comment from Scotland - our immigration has not been on the same scale as in some parts of England, and unlike England our population is largely stable due to our insanely low birth rate. I note that our public services aren't much better or worse than England's.
Islamism, as a fundamentalist Islam that is implemented via the state, is a scary idea, but not something that I am scared of happening in the UK. If we are talking religion, Christianity has a much larger influence on my life and on the UK state.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
Because these small town hotels are a major public amenity you fucking dummy. They are a place to send guests and family you can’t house, they are often meeting points for clubs and associations and friends. When they are taken over for asylum seekers they are entirely sealed off and they become weird menacing private spaces - where unknown young men loiter, smoking and drinking
How can you not understand this? You are a blithering lefty fool. You have no Theory of Mind
On top of that, as you look at this now closed hotel now used for asylum seekers, you know it is YOUR taxes paying to keep these young men in bed and board, for free
Famously mentioned by Mike Harding in his Barnsley Fighting Guitar sketch. Apparently Hitler didn't bomb Wath because he wanted to be able to see where he had been.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
The difficulty (and I doubt it is the case in Tamworth) is when a hotel in a village is the only meeting place, and where mum & toddler groups rent out its conference room, and so on. Once the hotel is given over to Asylum seekers, all ancillary functions cease.
Don't start your criticism of immigration levels with "The Muslims" or "The Jews"...
More generally, if you’re protesting then protest against the government (this one or the previous one) and the policy, not against the people it concerns. Or even, as in this case, attacking people who aren’t necessarily immigrants but have the same religion or skin colour as some immigrants.
It’s a simple distinction. Protesting Israeli action in Gaza: fine. Firebombing British synagogues: not fine. Protesting abortion policy: fine. Standing outside a clinic heckling young women: not fine. Protesting against vivisection: fine. Sending death threats to people working at vivisection labs: not fine.
It not rocket science. See the anti-Brexit marches.
Or the Countryside Alliance marches 20 years ago, or actually numerous marches that go off without any issue dozens of times every year.
In fact even a lot of the big demos that have some violent thugs at the fringes. There are a lot of those: many of the “stop the war” events, BLM, the occupy protests, and on the right the pro-Brexit marches in 2019 and anti-lockdown marches in 2020. Whereas this week as far as I can see has been uniquely hooliganism: not a few rabble rousers on the fringes of actual protests, but the entire event.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
Because these small town hotels are a major public amenity you fucking dummy. They are a place to send guests and family you can’t house, they are often meeting points for clubs and associations and friends. When they are taken over for asylum seekers they are entirely sealed off and they become weird menacing private spaces - where unknown young men loiter, smoking and drinking
How can you not understand this? You are a blithering lefty fool. You have no Theory of Mind
On top of that, as you look at this now closed hotel now used for asylum seekers, you know it is YOUR taxes paying to keep these young men in bed and board, for free
a friend of mine runs a micropub in the car park of a hotel that's been used for housing asylum seekers. it's impacted his business as people who would stay in the hotel during the week for business stopped.
Oh come off it. @leon is provocative, posts endlessly and can handle himself robustly. He doesn't need any help or sympathy and probably doesn't appreciate it. I've never seen him not holding his own. Double entendre not intended, but appropriate given his recent postings about socks.
No, I think I’m pretty much done
Why don't you just fuck off and join the Liberal Democrats.
Hang on, that is a bit uncalled for. How do you if we want him? I might have defended him, but there are limits.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
The difficulty (and I doubt it is the case in Tamworth) is when a hotel in a village is the only meeting place, and where mum & toddler groups rent out its conference room, and so on. Once the hotel is given over to Asylum seekers, all ancillary functions cease.
What’s the non-racist way of protesting against mass immigration?
Vote! If you're unhappy with the way the country is being run, vote!
The other way to show you're not a racist is not be a racist claiming that the Southport perp was a migrant muslim, not targeting mosques, not chanting anti-muslim abuse, not stopping only non-whites from driving past you etc etc etc.
The simple truth is that its not possible for these racists to protest in a non-racist way because they are racists.
So reading between your lines, you're saying that there is no way that you would ever approve of people taking to the streets to protest about immigration.
I can see why any mass protest about the issue of immigration is problematical to some degree, because of the potential to make minority communities feel afraid, and of course the tendency for such protests to spill over into violence.
On the other hand though, the right to free assembly probably takes precedence over that and suggests that protests about any political issue however controversial should be allowable, though policed absolutely rigidly to avoid such scenes like those we've witnessed this week.
On what planet do you draw that conclusion?
Protest? Do it. Peacefully. Burning hotels and smashing cars driven by anyone who isn't white? No.
Don't start your criticism of immigration levels with "The Muslims" or "The Jews"...
More generally, if you’re protesting then protest against the government (this one or the previous one) and the policy, not against the people it concerns. Or even, as in this case, attacking people who aren’t necessarily immigrants but have the same religion or skin colour as some immigrants.
It’s a simple distinction. Protesting Israeli action in Gaza: fine. Firebombing British synagogues: not fine. Protesting abortion policy: fine. Standing outside a clinic heckling young women: not fine. Protesting against vivisection: fine. Sending death threats to people working at vivisection labs: not fine.
It not rocket science. See the anti-Brexit marches.
Or the Countryside Alliance marches 20 years ago, or actually numerous marches that go off without any issue dozens of times every year.
You mean those feckers who invaded the House of Commons? Lucky not to have been shot.
Can someone explain to me how exactly Leon is being “silenced” on here? From personal experience I know he’s not averse to shutting people down with a few choice ad hominems.
People were actively arguing for him to be banned on the last thread, based on "Islamophobia" when he didn't say anything about Islam. And I was accused of being a Nazi, because I pointed out the authorities did eff all about 10,000 raped kids. It is just how centre-left people are. If they don't like a viewpoint, they don't try to argue against it but slur, insult and ban.
I didn't read all the comments but would agree that there is a tendency to want to turn the website in to a safe space for the centre left, by trying to shut down all the forces that seek to challenge the dominant worldview. If this succeeds the website is effectively dead, because it becomes people of the same worldview logging on to agree with each other, a form of companionship and therapy perhaps, but not useful debate.
One comment I would make, and not something that is really discussed, is that there are no new young posters. I'd guess a large majority are in their 50's or older, some in their 40's. It is starting to noticeably affect the discussions.
This website is substantially more boring than it was three or four years ago. There used to be very strident back and forths with compelling arguments each way that were genuinely illuminating. But almost all the voices that didn't conform to dull Starmerism have gone. Leon is one of the few regular commenters that still argues regularly from the right. And of course now they want him banned too.
Peak PB was 2010-ish, where people actually discussed pros and cons of policy backed up by data.
I still try to do that from time to time. As do others.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
Because these small town hotels are a major public amenity you fucking dummy. They are a place to send guests and family you can’t house, they are often meeting points for clubs and associations and friends. When they are taken over for asylum seekers they are entirely sealed off and they become weird menacing private spaces - where unknown young men loiter, smoking and drinking
How can you not understand this? You are a blithering lefty fool. You have no Theory of Mind
On top of that, as you look at this now closed hotel now used for asylum seekers, you know it is YOUR taxes paying to keep these young men in bed and board, for free
a friend of mine runs a micropub in the car park of a hotel that's been used for housing asylum seekers. it's impacted his business as people who would stay in the hotel during the week for business stopped.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
The difficulty (and I doubt it is the case in Tamworth) is when a hotel in a village is the only meeting place, and where mum & toddler groups rent out its conference room, and so on. Once the hotel is given over to Asylum seekers, all ancillary functions cease.
And this is why England is burning?
I appreciate that the lack of a function space is frustrating but...
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
Because these small town hotels are a major public amenity you fucking dummy. They are a place to send guests and family you can’t house, they are often meeting points for clubs and associations and friends. When they are taken over for asylum seekers they are entirely sealed off and they become weird menacing private spaces - where unknown young men loiter, smoking and drinking
How can you not understand this? You are a blithering lefty fool. You have no Theory of Mind
On top of that, as you look at this now closed hotel now used for asylum seekers, you know it is YOUR taxes paying to keep these young men in bed and board, for free
Are you advocating attacking the hotel? Because that’s what it sounds like. This is precisely the sort of theory of mind that right wingers have been berating “soft on crime” lefties about for decades.
Attacking a place where vulnerable people are staying is not OK, nor is it legal. In fact attacking an empty hotel wouldn’t be legal either.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
In some areas, the block booking of hotels to use for asylum purposes has inconvenienced local business by massively reducing the available hotels rooms.
In other places, the hotels booked stopped providing amenities like pools and gyms that the residents were using previously. In a fair number of places, a hotel provided swimming pool is the only one, locally.
So it is perfectly reasonable to question the use of long term block booking hotels vs other options.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
The difficulty (and I doubt it is the case in Tamworth) is when a hotel in a village is the only meeting place, and where mum & toddler groups rent out its conference room, and so on. Once the hotel is given over to Asylum seekers, all ancillary functions cease.
Tim has a point, unless you are proposing nationalising hotels, but I thought the right didn't believe in that so the hotel sells to whom provides the best profit. You and I might not like it but it is none of our business.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
When these hotels are used by the government for asylum seekers they don't just rent out rooms but take over the whole building, so local people who might have previously used the amenities like health clubs or restaurants suddenly can't.
So they should attack the hotel?
Well, they could try voicing their concerns to their MP, who could try raising it in the House of Commons.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
The difficulty (and I doubt it is the case in Tamworth) is when a hotel in a village is the only meeting place, and where mum & toddler groups rent out its conference room, and so on. Once the hotel is given over to Asylum seekers, all ancillary functions cease.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
The difficulty (and I doubt it is the case in Tamworth) is when a hotel in a village is the only meeting place, and where mum & toddler groups rent out its conference room, and so on. Once the hotel is given over to Asylum seekers, all ancillary functions cease.
And this is why England is burning?
I appreciate that the lack of a function space is frustrating but...
No, of course not. The point is that hotels aren't just rooms. And though they are private businesses, they provide what the kids call "third spaces", which are sort of a public amenity.
We let taxis in bus lanes because of similar blurring of lines, to pick a random example.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
They want a Holiday Inn Express back? I'd want it moved out of town.
As I understand it the hotels that are getting rented out to the government for asylum seekers are reaching the end of their serviceable life, i.e. would have major refurb costs attached to continue functioning as hotels. See the Mercure in Bristol that's been converted. Or are pretty downmarket to begin with, like the Britannia chain, and the owners have figured they can get better occupancy rates + lower running costs (the Mercure in Bristol sacked most of its staff as no need for a bar, a pool etc).
However that equation is going to change with insurance costs now... I wouldn't be surprised if, in echoes of Grenfell, hotels converted to asylum seeker centres will become uninsurable, and a substantial risk. So either it's going to cost a lot more to put asylum seekers up in hotels, or it's going to become impossible, which makes you wonder where they are going to go.
Is the tory membership especially in favour of Trump unlike 98% of the rest of UK population?
Seems odd thing to push out there.
Well it shows that Jenrick is quite plainly a bloody idiot who should be nowhere near the leadership of any political party. A Tory politician siding with Trump might as well cut out the middle man and pledge allegiance to Putin.
Home Secretary David Blunkett has vowed to fight a High Court victory for six asylum seekers denied housing and benefits.
Mr Blunkett told BBC Radio 4's The World at One: "Frankly, I'm personally fed up with having to deal with a situation where Parliament debates issues and the judges then overturn them."
Mr Justice Collins said the rules as they were applied in the six test cases breached the European Convention on Human Rights.
Keir Starmer QC, representing five of the group, told the court the government's policy had forced them onto the streets.
Just watched Starmer’s speech from this afternoon. An odd statement. The law and order aspect in terms of wanting to restore order was on point.
But he then completely undid that with a frankly incredible insinuation that white racists have held a monopoly over violence this week. Anyone with a smart phone can see that’s not been the case and that we’re facing something more complex than a hardcore of No Surrender types causing unprovoked trouble.
If you don't want to be insinuated don't take part in racist violent thuggery, or encourage it. Starmer isn't obliged to say, and for the sake of balance what about these other people?
I'm content for the courts to deal with the lot of them. Starmer isn't involved.
A rather puzzling take. He chose to make his speech overtly political, in a way that is unlikely to calm tensions. And which over the medium term, may well undermine his own position.
What's happening is far right thuggery. He called it far right thuggery.
Do we want mealy mouthed equivocation from our political leaders or do we want the unvarnished truth?
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
In some areas, the block booking of hotels to use for asylum purposes has inconvenienced local business by massively reducing the available hotels rooms.
In other places, the hotels booked stopped providing amenities like pools and gyms that the residents were using previously. In a fair number of places, a hotel provided swimming pool is the only one, locally.
So it is perfectly reasonable to question the use of long term block booking hotels vs other options.
Indeed. And attacking that hotel is neither reasonable nor civilised but, well, a bit Brownshirt.
Just watched Starmer’s speech from this afternoon. An odd statement. The law and order aspect in terms of wanting to restore order was on point.
But he then completely undid that with a frankly incredible insinuation that white racists have held a monopoly over violence this week. Anyone with a smart phone can see that’s not been the case and that we’re facing something more complex than a hardcore of No Surrender types causing unprovoked trouble.
If you don't want to be insinuated don't take part in racist violent thuggery, or encourage it. Starmer isn't obliged to say, and for the sake of balance what about these other people?
I'm content for the courts to deal with the lot of them. Starmer isn't involved.
A rather puzzling take. He chose to make his speech overtly political, in a way that is unlikely to calm tensions. And which over the medium term, may well undermine his own position.
Starmer has called the situation as it is. Maybe people promoting that ideology don't like being associated with violence. In that case repudiate it. This is the text of Starmer's speech, just takes a minute to read and people can make up their own minds. I think most want the violence and the causes of the violence to be firmly dealt with and will support Starmer.
If you want to drive every sane or civilised right wing voice off the site then carry on exactly as you are and I will indeed leave. And this time I won’t come back
And this site will turn into an insanely boring pile of shite where centrist lefty dads discuss the fucking west coast main line. And it will finally die
Nonsense. Some of us are more interested in the East Coast main line.
{draws giant two handed sword}
Heretic !!!!!!
The Midland Main Line's the best! Better than anything the LNER or GWR could produce!!!!!
Surrounded by heresy! cruuuuuussssssaaaaaaadddde!
Hey, come on. The Peak Line and the Settle and Carlisle were both on the MML. No other main route went through anything like it.
I will always put in a vote for the line along the Welsh coastal route up from Aber which seems neglected to me. I am not convinced why!
Very pleasant line, too. Up to Pwllheli certainly. Trundles over the wooden viaduct at Barmouth and under the Harlech castle hill ...
Yes, I love the way it swings around Harlech, it is a nice stretch to say the least, with the castle.
Even now has a mixed gauge level crossing at Porthmadoc (or just outside it), I believe, like it used to.
The railway under Harlech Castle, part of the Cambrian Line, offers an interesting juxtaposition of medieval and industrial history. Constructed in 1867, it cut through the rock beneath the 13th-century fortress, ironically improving access for visitors and aiding in the castle's preservation.
I often contrast it with Scotland's West Highland Line, famous for its stunning vistas and the Glenfinnan Viaduct featured in Harry Potter films.
They are both completely functional yet also romantic. I can’t think of any British motorway that does that. Some American freeways do manage this.
Don't start your criticism of immigration levels with "The Muslims" or "The Jews"...
More generally, if you’re protesting then protest against the government (this one or the previous one) and the policy, not against the people it concerns. Or even, as in this case, attacking people who aren’t necessarily immigrants but have the same religion or skin colour as some immigrants.
It’s a simple distinction. Protesting Israeli action in Gaza: fine. Firebombing British synagogues: not fine. Protesting abortion policy: fine. Standing outside a clinic heckling young women: not fine. Protesting against vivisection: fine. Sending death threats to people working at vivisection labs: not fine.
It not rocket science. See the anti-Brexit marches.
Or the Countryside Alliance marches 20 years ago, or actually numerous marches that go off without any issue dozens of times every year.
In fact even a lot of the big demos that have some violent thugs at the fringes. There are a lot of those: many of the “stop the war” events, BLM, the occupy protests, and on the right the pro-Brexit marches in 2019 and anti-lockdown marches in 2020. Whereas this week as far as I can see has been uniquely hooliganism: not a few rabble rousers on the fringes of actual protests, but the entire event.
Yes.
Much like the Mark Duggan riots - no actual protesting, just violence and theft.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
In some areas, the block booking of hotels to use for asylum purposes has inconvenienced local business by massively reducing the available hotels rooms.
In other places, the hotels booked stopped providing amenities like pools and gyms that the residents were using previously. In a fair number of places, a hotel provided swimming pool is the only one, locally.
So it is perfectly reasonable to question the use of long term block booking hotels vs other options.
Indeed. And attacking that hotel is neither reasonable nor civilised but, well, a bit Brownshirt.
That may be true, but it is also true that democratic opposition to this state of affairs has been rendered all but impossible.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
In some areas, the block booking of hotels to use for asylum purposes has inconvenienced local business by massively reducing the available hotels rooms.
In other places, the hotels booked stopped providing amenities like pools and gyms that the residents were using previously. In a fair number of places, a hotel provided swimming pool is the only one, locally.
So it is perfectly reasonable to question the use of long term block booking hotels vs other options.
Indeed. And attacking that hotel is neither reasonable nor civilised but, well, a bit Brownshirt.
Which of us is arguing that? I was just picking you up on a particular point, no?
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
The difficulty (and I doubt it is the case in Tamworth) is when a hotel in a village is the only meeting place, and where mum & toddler groups rent out its conference room, and so on. Once the hotel is given over to Asylum seekers, all ancillary functions cease.
Tim has a point, unless you are proposing nationalising hotels, but I thought the right didn't believe in that so the hotel sells to whom provides the best profit. You and I might not like it but it is none of our business.
In a democracy, when the government is doing something - It is everyone’s business.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
The difficulty (and I doubt it is the case in Tamworth) is when a hotel in a village is the only meeting place, and where mum & toddler groups rent out its conference room, and so on. Once the hotel is given over to Asylum seekers, all ancillary functions cease.
You’re all too fucking stupid (or wilfully ignorant) to read the fucking post.
Targeting people, and the places they live, with violence is not protest. There is a more accurate word for it. A Pogrom.
No. Twat. You questioned why it should be “anyone’s business” who a hotel sells its rooms too
When it is YOUR taxes paying for that crucial hotel to be closed down and given to asylum seekers then you very much have a say and you are very much allowed to be annoyed. You’re not allowed to burn it down but my god yes you’re allowed to be angry
You didn’t understand this because you are a pathetic failure of a petit boogie wine grower who lives in fucking BALHAM
Just watched Starmer’s speech from this afternoon. An odd statement. The law and order aspect in terms of wanting to restore order was on point.
But he then completely undid that with a frankly incredible insinuation that white racists have held a monopoly over violence this week. Anyone with a smart phone can see that’s not been the case and that we’re facing something more complex than a hardcore of No Surrender types causing unprovoked trouble.
If you don't want to be insinuated don't take part in racist violent thuggery, or encourage it. Starmer isn't obliged to say, and for the sake of balance what about these other people?
I'm content for the courts to deal with the lot of them. Starmer isn't involved.
A rather puzzling take. He chose to make his speech overtly political, in a way that is unlikely to calm tensions. And which over the medium term, may well undermine his own position.
Starmer has called the situation as it is. Maybe people promoting that ideology don't like being associated with violence. In that case repudiate it. This is the text of Starmer's speech, just takes a minute to read and people can make up their own minds. I think most want the violence and the causes of the violence to be firmly dealt with and will support Starmer.
I didn’t notice many Tories voicing their deep empathy and theory of mind that allowed them to understand the legitimate concerns of just stop oil protestors blocking the streets. Indeed I seem to recall them using the opportunity to enact draconian new legislation to suppress disruptive protests.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
In some areas, the block booking of hotels to use for asylum purposes has inconvenienced local business by massively reducing the available hotels rooms.
In other places, the hotels booked stopped providing amenities like pools and gyms that the residents were using previously. In a fair number of places, a hotel provided swimming pool is the only one, locally.
So it is perfectly reasonable to question the use of long term block booking hotels vs other options.
Indeed. And attacking that hotel is neither reasonable nor civilised but, well, a bit Brownshirt.
I thought the SA were into block booking places like The Hanselbauer Hotel, not burning them?
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Can someone explain to me how exactly Leon is being “silenced” on here? From personal experience I know he’s not averse to shutting people down with a few choice ad hominems.
People were actively arguing for him to be banned on the last thread, based on "Islamophobia" when he didn't say anything about Islam. And I was accused of being a Nazi, because I pointed out the authorities did eff all about 10,000 raped kids. It is just how centre-left people are. If they don't like a viewpoint, they don't try to argue against it but slur, insult and ban.
Lol. That’s exactly what Leon does and I’d hardly describe him as centre-left. Indeed the rightists here are so insecure in their arguments they don’t even bother to engage with a contrary viewpoint before resorting to slurs. The knots the right tie themselves in here to justify burning libraries and then insult anyone who dares suggest that might not be a good idea are quite remarkable.
Yes. Because of course I praised the burning of libraries. That’s what I do
I said “justify”. Or, alternatively, “excuse” if you prefer. Not “praise”.
As a 'rightist' on this board, I'm not remotely insecure about my arguments, nor afraid to engage with a contrary viewpoint, nor prone to 'slurs' - those tend to come my way far more than the other way around.
You may get a little pushback on here because of your track record of shilling for Russia - whether it was over the MH17 shootdown or Ukrainian biolabs.
And as those examples show, your 'arguments' are often ludicrous.
I am always happy to learn new things, and sometimes I've found taking a strong position and attracting counter-arguments that can change my initial view to be a good, if unintended outcome.
Needless to say, that hasn't happened with your responses, which are usually puerile smears.
That really doesn't wash.
You show no indication you have learnt from those incidents. I wasn't the one who started calling you 'PutinsGuy'.
'usually puerile smears' ? I'd prefer to call them factual reminders of who you are.
I offer plenty of criticism of Vladimir Putin. I'm certainly not going to do it every time I enter a discussion, like doing 10 hail Marys and 10 Our Fathers just because an intolerant authoritarian turd like you thinks I should demonstrate that I have 'learnt' from those 'incident(s)'
I really couldn't care less whether it was you or some other moron that started calling me 'Putinguy'.
I don't think I've ever seen you criticise Putin or Russia. I certainly haven't seen you renounce your shilling for Russia over MH17 or Ukrainian Biolabs. In fact, you seem to go a long way to avoid doing so.
"an intolerant authoritarian turd like you"
How on Earth do you make me out to be 'authoritarian' or 'intolerant'?
Give Luckyguy a break. I think he’s wrong on the vast majority of the stuff he opines on - and he’s oddly judgy about the US in a way he certainly isn’t about Russia - but he’s not a shill for Putin.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
Because these small town hotels are a major public amenity you fucking dummy. They are a place to send guests and family you can’t house, they are often meeting points for clubs and associations and friends. When they are taken over for asylum seekers they are entirely sealed off and they become weird menacing private spaces - where unknown young men loiter, smoking and drinking
How can you not understand this? You are a blithering lefty fool. You have no Theory of Mind
On top of that, as you look at this now closed hotel now used for asylum seekers, you know it is YOUR taxes paying to keep these young men in bed and board, for free
You are right in everything you say about these hotels. Same goes for the posher shire hotels that were major wedding venues and that were suddenly taken over for asylum seekers with loads of people losing out on their preferred wedding venue.
But.
(Big But)
that is the fault of a specific (last) Government policy failure. They starved the immigration service of funds and basically collapsed the whole system so that the numbers of asylum seekers being processed plummeted. The highest number of asylum applications in the in the 21st century was not in any of the last 5 years - it was actually back in 2002 when there were 84,000 applications compared to 81,000 in 2022 and 65,000 in 2023. And yet in 2002 the system ran relatively smoothly and there was very little issue with housing of asylum seekers whereas as of June last year there was a backlog of 215,000 cases. So fewer applications but vastly higher numbers of unprocessed cases.
If we had an asylum system that worked and was properly funded then we would not need to be spending hundreds of millions housing immigrants in hotels around the country.
Reading the discussions this evening, I'm struck by just how successful the bullshit these right wing groups have been putting out has been. Everyone is debating immigration within the context of these riots when it has nothing to do with them. Look at the thugs gathering in Rotherham and Middlesbrough today, they have no placards and they barely mention immigration in their shouting. It's racism and criminal damage pure and simple. If these groups were serious about trying to stop mass migration then they'd be holding peaceful rallies with loads of photogenic old boys scattered in talking about how much better things were in the good old day.
What’s the non-racist way of protesting against mass immigration?
Vote! If you're unhappy with the way the country is being run, vote!
The other way to show you're not a racist is not be a racist claiming that the Southport perp was a migrant muslim, not targeting mosques, not chanting anti-muslim abuse, not stopping only non-whites from driving past you etc etc etc.
The simple truth is that its not possible for these racists to protest in a non-racist way because they are racists.
So reading between your lines, you're saying that there is no way that you would ever approve of people taking to the streets to protest about immigration.
I can see why any mass protest about the issue of immigration is problematical to some degree, because of the potential to make minority communities feel afraid, and of course the tendency for such protests to spill over into violence.
On the other hand though, the right to free assembly probably takes precedence over that and suggests that protests about any political issue however controversial should be allowable, though policed absolutely rigidly to avoid such scenes like those we've witnessed this week.
On what planet do you draw that conclusion?
Protest? Do it. Peacefully. Burning hotels and smashing cars driven by anyone who isn't white? No.
There seems to something about white racists that doesn't lend itself to peaceful protest.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
In some areas, the block booking of hotels to use for asylum purposes has inconvenienced local business by massively reducing the available hotels rooms.
In other places, the hotels booked stopped providing amenities like pools and gyms that the residents were using previously. In a fair number of places, a hotel provided swimming pool is the only one, locally.
So it is perfectly reasonable to question the use of long term block booking hotels vs other options.
Indeed. And attacking that hotel is neither reasonable nor civilised but, well, a bit Brownshirt.
Which of us is arguing that? I was just picking you up on a particular point, no?
My point was that complaining about something is fine, attacking a hotel is not.
But hotels close or change use all the time. People complain. They might write letters to the council. They don’t go attacking the hotels. Funnily enough that only happens when people from an ethnic group that they hate are staying there.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
In some areas, the block booking of hotels to use for asylum purposes has inconvenienced local business by massively reducing the available hotels rooms.
In other places, the hotels booked stopped providing amenities like pools and gyms that the residents were using previously. In a fair number of places, a hotel provided swimming pool is the only one, locally.
So it is perfectly reasonable to question the use of long term block booking hotels vs other options.
Indeed. And attacking that hotel is neither reasonable nor civilised but, well, a bit Brownshirt.
That may be true, but it is also true that democratic opposition to this state of affairs has been rendered all but impossible.
Didn't have you down as a JSO supporter but PBers always surprise.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
Because these small town hotels are a major public amenity you fucking dummy. They are a place to send guests and family you can’t house, they are often meeting points for clubs and associations and friends. When they are taken over for asylum seekers they are entirely sealed off and they become weird menacing private spaces - where unknown young men loiter, smoking and drinking
How can you not understand this? You are a blithering lefty fool. You have no Theory of Mind
On top of that, as you look at this now closed hotel now used for asylum seekers, you know it is YOUR taxes paying to keep these young men in bed and board, for free
You are right in everything you say about these hotels. Same goes for the posher shire hotels that were major wedding venues and that were suddenly taken over for asylum seekers with loads of people losing out on their preferred wedding venue.
But.
(Big But)
that is the fault of a specific (last) Government policy failure. They starved the immigration service of funds and basically collapsed the whole system so that the numbers of asylum seekers being processed plummeted. The highest number of asylum applications in the in the 21st century was not in any of the last 5 years - it was actually back in 2002 when there were 84,000 applications compared to 81,000 in 2022 and 65,000 in 2023. And yet in 2002 the system ran relatively smoothly and there was very little issue with housing of asylum seekers whereas as of June last year there was a backlog of 215,000 cases. So fewer applications but vastly higher numbers of unprocessed cases.
If we had an asylum system that worked and was properly funded then we would not need to be spending hundreds of millions housing immigrants in hotels around the country.
Quite:
This is a classic example of penny wise, pound foolish. And it results in unhappy voters.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
The difficulty (and I doubt it is the case in Tamworth) is when a hotel in a village is the only meeting place, and where mum & toddler groups rent out its conference room, and so on. Once the hotel is given over to Asylum seekers, all ancillary functions cease.
You’re all too fucking stupid (or wilfully ignorant) to read the fucking post.
Targeting people, and the places they live, with violence is not protest. There is a more accurate word for it. A Pogrom.
No. Twat. You questioned why it should be “anyone’s business” who a hotel sells its rooms too
When it is YOUR taxes paying for that crucial hotel to be closed down and given to asylum seekers then you very much have a say and you are very much allowed to be annoyed. You’re not allowed to burn it down but my god yes you’re allowed to be angry
You didn’t understand this because you are a pathetic failure of a petit boogie wine grower who lives in fucking BALHAM
hmmm. Do I detect....? No, it couldn't be.... Could it?
What’s the non-racist way of protesting against mass immigration?
Vote! If you're unhappy with the way the country is being run, vote!
The other way to show you're not a racist is not be a racist claiming that the Southport perp was a migrant muslim, not targeting mosques, not chanting anti-muslim abuse, not stopping only non-whites from driving past you etc etc etc.
The simple truth is that its not possible for these racists to protest in a non-racist way because they are racists.
So reading between your lines, you're saying that there is no way that you would ever approve of people taking to the streets to protest about immigration.
I can see why any mass protest about the issue of immigration is problematical to some degree, because of the potential to make minority communities feel afraid, and of course the tendency for such protests to spill over into violence.
On the other hand though, the right to free assembly probably takes precedence over that and suggests that protests about any political issue however controversial should be allowable, though policed absolutely rigidly to avoid such scenes like those we've witnessed this week.
On what planet do you draw that conclusion?
Protest? Do it. Peacefully. Burning hotels and smashing cars driven by anyone who isn't white? No.
There seems to something about white racists that doesn't lend itself to peaceful protest.
I think you’ll find that true of all racists everywhere. For example, Thai Buddhist racists when protesting about Muslims.
Just watched Starmer’s speech from this afternoon. An odd statement. The law and order aspect in terms of wanting to restore order was on point.
But he then completely undid that with a frankly incredible insinuation that white racists have held a monopoly over violence this week. Anyone with a smart phone can see that’s not been the case and that we’re facing something more complex than a hardcore of No Surrender types causing unprovoked trouble.
If you don't want to be insinuated don't take part in racist violent thuggery, or encourage it. Starmer isn't obliged to say, and for the sake of balance what about these other people?
I'm content for the courts to deal with the lot of them. Starmer isn't involved.
A rather puzzling take. He chose to make his speech overtly political, in a way that is unlikely to calm tensions. And which over the medium term, may well undermine his own position.
Starmer has called the situation as it is. Maybe people promoting that ideology don't like being associated with violence. In that case repudiate it. This is the text of Starmer's speech, just takes a minute to read and people can make up their own minds. I think most want the violence and the causes of the violence to be firmly dealt with and will support Starmer.
I didn’t notice many Tories voicing their deep empathy and theory of mind that allowed them to understand the legitimate concerns of just stop oil protestors blocking the streets. Indeed I seem to recall them using the opportunity to enact draconian new legislation to suppress disruptive protests.
Rank hypocrisy.
It's not even that. Far too many people have no empathy with those who are dismayed and angry to see their communities trashed on behalf of an ideology that those people support.
It is not a coincidence that there is rioting while there is some *serious* ill temper in these hallowed comment sections. It's too damn hot.
Actually it's OK for me cause a) I'm in the north east (got fairly close to boro today for unrelated reasons but not whole way) b) I have air con (after a fashion) but for 95% of people it's hot and only solution is get drunk and aggressive. 2011 was the same.
I expressed views like this earlier in the day and it was pointed out to me people died in 2011. That's true. So perhaps I shouldn't be quite so light hearted about it, although I'm going to be anyway. That's just what happens with massive civil disorder which is why we don't encourage it even though it's fun to watch. But I do think this is going to be a flash in the pan. The real issues that are being used as "excuses" for this rioting do need sorting but the rioting itself? Neither here nor there imo. And look out for some exemplary sentences in next few days.
Don't start your criticism of immigration levels with "The Muslims" or "The Jews"...
More generally, if you’re protesting then protest against the government (this one or the previous one) and the policy, not against the people it concerns. Or even, as in this case, attacking people who aren’t necessarily immigrants but have the same religion or skin colour as some immigrants.
It’s a simple distinction. Protesting Israeli action in Gaza: fine. Firebombing British synagogues: not fine. Protesting abortion policy: fine. Standing outside a clinic heckling young women: not fine. Protesting against vivisection: fine. Sending death threats to people working at vivisection labs: not fine.
It not rocket science. See the anti-Brexit marches.
Or the Countryside Alliance marches 20 years ago, or actually numerous marches that go off without any issue dozens of times every year.
In fact even a lot of the big demos that have some violent thugs at the fringes. There are a lot of those: many of the “stop the war” events, BLM, the occupy protests, and on the right the pro-Brexit marches in 2019 and anti-lockdown marches in 2020. Whereas this week as far as I can see has been uniquely hooliganism: not a few rabble rousers on the fringes of actual protests, but the entire event.
Yes.
Much like the Mark Duggan riots - no actual protesting, just violence and theft.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
In some areas, the block booking of hotels to use for asylum purposes has inconvenienced local business by massively reducing the available hotels rooms.
In other places, the hotels booked stopped providing amenities like pools and gyms that the residents were using previously. In a fair number of places, a hotel provided swimming pool is the only one, locally.
So it is perfectly reasonable to question the use of long term block booking hotels vs other options.
Indeed. And attacking that hotel is neither reasonable nor civilised but, well, a bit Brownshirt.
That may be true, but it is also true that democratic opposition to this state of affairs has been rendered all but impossible.
Didn't have you down as a JSO supporter but PBers always surprise.
We ostensibly have policies in place designed to achieve their objective of a net zero economy, so it's a bad analogy.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
The difficulty (and I doubt it is the case in Tamworth) is when a hotel in a village is the only meeting place, and where mum & toddler groups rent out its conference room, and so on. Once the hotel is given over to Asylum seekers, all ancillary functions cease.
You’re all too fucking stupid (or wilfully ignorant) to read the fucking post.
Targeting people, and the places they live, with violence is not protest. There is a more accurate word for it. A Pogrom.
No. Twat. You questioned why it should be “anyone’s business” who a hotel sells its rooms too
When it is YOUR taxes paying for that crucial hotel to be closed down and given to asylum seekers then you very much have a say and you are very much allowed to be annoyed. You’re not allowed to burn it down but my god yes you’re allowed to be angry
You didn’t understand this because you are a pathetic failure of a petit boogie wine grower who lives in fucking BALHAM
hmmm. Do I detect....? No, it couldn't be.... Could it?
"It gave her the moral clarity to fight the big banks who paid for their own misdeeds by foreclosing on working families. It gave her the strength to fight for students and veterans who were taken advantage of by a for-profit education company and it gave her the tools to win bringing rent relief and badly needed resources to low-income communities during the COVID-19 pandemic, to deliver student debt relief to countless American, to help create millions of new jobs and more.
Now, because it’s her time and her turn, she is zooming through and into history and nobody deserves it more."
If you want to drive every sane or civilised right wing voice off the site then carry on exactly as you are and I will indeed leave. And this time I won’t come back
And this site will turn into an insanely boring pile of shite where centrist lefty dads discuss the fucking west coast main line. And it will finally die
Nonsense. Some of us are more interested in the East Coast main line.
{draws giant two handed sword}
Heretic !!!!!!
The Midland Main Line's the best! Better than anything the LNER or GWR could produce!!!!!
Surrounded by heresy! cruuuuuussssssaaaaaaadddde!
Hey, come on. The Peak Line and the Settle and Carlisle were both on the MML. No other main route went through anything like it.
I will always put in a vote for the line along the Welsh coastal route up from Aber which seems neglected to me. I am not convinced why!
Very pleasant line, too. Up to Pwllheli certainly. Trundles over the wooden viaduct at Barmouth and under the Harlech castle hill ...
Yes, I love the way it swings around Harlech, it is a nice stretch to say the least, with the castle.
Even now has a mixed gauge level crossing at Porthmadoc (or just outside it), I believe, like it used to.
Good evening
As it so happens my wife and I crossed that mixed gauge level crossing on our day trip on the Welsh Highland Railway from Caernarfon to Porthmadog and return 10 days ago
The journey is one of Wales Great Little Trains and I would recommend it to anyone who loves narrow gauge, steam hauled vintage engines and fabulous scenery
My wife and I are doing the Blaenau Ffestiniog to Porthmadog Quarryman Rail journey on Tuesday and going from Llandudno to Blaenau on the main line service which concludes at Blaenau and where we cross the platform for the Quarryman
What’s the non-racist way of protesting against mass immigration?
Vote! If you're unhappy with the way the country is being run, vote!
The other way to show you're not a racist is not be a racist claiming that the Southport perp was a migrant muslim, not targeting mosques, not chanting anti-muslim abuse, not stopping only non-whites from driving past you etc etc etc.
The simple truth is that its not possible for these racists to protest in a non-racist way because they are racists.
So reading between your lines, you're saying that there is no way that you would ever approve of people taking to the streets to protest about immigration.
I can see why any mass protest about the issue of immigration is problematical to some degree, because of the potential to make minority communities feel afraid, and of course the tendency for such protests to spill over into violence.
On the other hand though, the right to free assembly probably takes precedence over that and suggests that protests about any political issue however controversial should be allowable, though policed absolutely rigidly to avoid such scenes like those we've witnessed this week.
On what planet do you draw that conclusion?
Protest? Do it. Peacefully. Burning hotels and smashing cars driven by anyone who isn't white? No.
There seems to something about white racists that doesn't lend itself to peaceful protest.
I think you’ll find that true of all racists everywhere. For example, Thai Buddhist racists when protesting about Muslims.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
The difficulty (and I doubt it is the case in Tamworth) is when a hotel in a village is the only meeting place, and where mum & toddler groups rent out its conference room, and so on. Once the hotel is given over to Asylum seekers, all ancillary functions cease.
You’re all too fucking stupid (or wilfully ignorant) to read the fucking post.
Targeting people, and the places they live, with violence is not protest. There is a more accurate word for it. A Pogrom.
No. Twat. You questioned why it should be “anyone’s business” who a hotel sells its rooms too
When it is YOUR taxes paying for that crucial hotel to be closed down and given to asylum seekers then you very much have a say and you are very much allowed to be annoyed. You’re not allowed to burn it down but my god yes you’re allowed to be angry
You didn’t understand this because you are a pathetic failure of a petit boogie wine grower who lives in fucking BALHAM
hmmm. Do I detect....? No, it couldn't be.... Could it?
Oh I hadn't considered that.
Babbage was of course famously assisted by Ada Lovelace. The only legitimate child of Byron. Just saying.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
They want a Holiday Inn Express back? I'd want it moved out of town.
As I understand it the hotels that are getting rented out to the government for asylum seekers are reaching the end of their serviceable life, i.e. would have major refurb costs attached to continue functioning as hotels. See the Mercure in Bristol that's been converted. Or are pretty downmarket to begin with, like the Britannia chain, and the owners have figured they can get better occupancy rates + lower running costs (the Mercure in Bristol sacked most of its staff as no need for a bar, a pool etc).
However that equation is going to change with insurance costs now... I wouldn't be surprised if, in echoes of Grenfell, hotels converted to asylum seeker centres will become uninsurable, and a substantial risk. So either it's going to cost a lot more to put asylum seekers up in hotels, or it's going to become impossible, which makes you wonder where they are going to go.
The various attempts to house people in disused army accommodation etc were shut down because of protests from Tory MPs who are no longer able to hold the govt to ransom - so I suppose that might be worth a look again if hotels become unaffordable?
Hard to see how simply increasing the rate at which we process applications wouldn't end up being the best value solution in the medium-long term, though.
It is not a coincidence that there is rioting while there is some *serious* ill temper in these hallowed comment sections. It's too damn hot.
Actually it's OK for me cause a) I'm in the north east (got fairly close to boro today for unrelated reasons but not whole way) b) I have air con (after a fashion) but for 95% of people it's hot and only solution is get drunk and aggressive. 2011 was the same.
I expressed views like this earlier in the day and it was pointed out to me people died in 2011. That's true. So perhaps I shouldn't be quite so light hearted about it, although I'm going to be anyway. That's just what happens with massive civil disorder which is why we don't encourage it even though it's fun to watch. But I do think this is going to be a flash in the pan. The real issues that are being used as "excuses" for this rioting do need sorting but the rioting itself? Neither here nor there imo. And look out for some exemplary sentences in next few days.
There will be exemplary sentences. And they will not work.
"It gave her the moral clarity to fight the big banks who paid for their own misdeeds by foreclosing on working families. It gave her the strength to fight for students and veterans who were taken advantage of by a for-profit education company and it gave her the tools to win bringing rent relief and badly needed resources to low-income communities during the COVID-19 pandemic, to deliver student debt relief to countless American, to help create millions of new jobs and more.
Now, because it’s her time and her turn, she is zooming through and into history and nobody deserves it more."
"It gave her the moral clarity to fight the big banks who paid for their own misdeeds by foreclosing on working families. It gave her the strength to fight for students and veterans who were taken advantage of by a for-profit education company and it gave her the tools to win bringing rent relief and badly needed resources to low-income communities during the COVID-19 pandemic, to deliver student debt relief to countless American, to help create millions of new jobs and more.
Now, because it’s her time and her turn, she is zooming through and into history and nobody deserves it more."
Without prejudice* to the merits of the article, it is by a Democrat strategist, so whether or not it's published by Fox I don't think it being pro-Dem means a great deal....
*hope that's the right legal term, did I convince you I know my onions?
It is not a coincidence that there is rioting while there is some *serious* ill temper in these hallowed comment sections. It's too damn hot.
Actually it's OK for me cause a) I'm in the north east (got fairly close to boro today for unrelated reasons but not whole way) b) I have air con (after a fashion) but for 95% of people it's hot and only solution is get drunk and aggressive. 2011 was the same.
I expressed views like this earlier in the day and it was pointed out to me people died in 2011. That's true. So perhaps I shouldn't be quite so light hearted about it, although I'm going to be anyway. That's just what happens with massive civil disorder which is why we don't encourage it even though it's fun to watch. But I do think this is going to be a flash in the pan. The real issues that are being used as "excuses" for this rioting do need sorting but the rioting itself? Neither here nor there imo. And look out for some exemplary sentences in next few days.
There will be exemplary sentences. And they will not work.
Of course they won't work, because deterrence in sentencing is in most circumstances of fairly minimal use. The legal profession and the general populace is convinced they do work though so que sera sera
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
The difficulty (and I doubt it is the case in Tamworth) is when a hotel in a village is the only meeting place, and where mum & toddler groups rent out its conference room, and so on. Once the hotel is given over to Asylum seekers, all ancillary functions cease.
You’re all too fucking stupid (or wilfully ignorant) to read the fucking post.
Targeting people, and the places they live, with violence is not protest. There is a more accurate word for it. A Pogrom.
No. Twat. You questioned why it should be “anyone’s business” who a hotel sells its rooms too
When it is YOUR taxes paying for that crucial hotel to be closed down and given to asylum seekers then you very much have a say and you are very much allowed to be annoyed. You’re not allowed to burn it down but my god yes you’re allowed to be angry
You didn’t understand this because you are a pathetic failure of a petit boogie wine grower who lives in fucking BALHAM
hmmm. Do I detect....? No, it couldn't be.... Could it?
Whoever they are seems to think I live in Balham. Which is odd because I don’t live anywhere near Balham.
It is not a coincidence that there is rioting while there is some *serious* ill temper in these hallowed comment sections. It's too damn hot.
Actually it's OK for me cause a) I'm in the north east (got fairly close to boro today for unrelated reasons but not whole way) b) I have air con (after a fashion) but for 95% of people it's hot and only solution is get drunk and aggressive. 2011 was the same.
I expressed views like this earlier in the day and it was pointed out to me people died in 2011. That's true. So perhaps I shouldn't be quite so light hearted about it, although I'm going to be anyway. That's just what happens with massive civil disorder which is why we don't encourage it even though it's fun to watch. But I do think this is going to be a flash in the pan. The real issues that are being used as "excuses" for this rioting do need sorting but the rioting itself? Neither here nor there imo. And look out for some exemplary sentences in next few days.
There will be exemplary sentences. And they will not work.
Of course they won't work, because deterrence in sentencing is in most circumstances of fairly minimal use. The legal profession and the general populace is convinced they do work though so que sera sera
The length of the sentence really doesn’t seem to affect propensity to crime or reoffending. The fact of being caught seems to be the main thing.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
The difficulty (and I doubt it is the case in Tamworth) is when a hotel in a village is the only meeting place, and where mum & toddler groups rent out its conference room, and so on. Once the hotel is given over to Asylum seekers, all ancillary functions cease.
You’re all too fucking stupid (or wilfully ignorant) to read the fucking post.
Targeting people, and the places they live, with violence is not protest. There is a more accurate word for it. A Pogrom.
No. Twat. You questioned why it should be “anyone’s business” who a hotel sells its rooms too
When it is YOUR taxes paying for that crucial hotel to be closed down and given to asylum seekers then you very much have a say and you are very much allowed to be annoyed. You’re not allowed to burn it down but my god yes you’re allowed to be angry
You didn’t understand this because you are a pathetic failure of a petit boogie wine grower who lives in fucking BALHAM
hmmm. Do I detect....? No, it couldn't be.... Could it?
Doesn't really count as a flounce
The reason there are so many hotels given over to asylum seekers is because the previous Government's policy was to slow down processing of asylum applications and warehouse them.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
Because these small town hotels are a major public amenity you fucking dummy. They are a place to send guests and family you can’t house, they are often meeting points for clubs and associations and friends. When they are taken over for asylum seekers they are entirely sealed off and they become weird menacing private spaces - where unknown young men loiter, smoking and drinking
How can you not understand this? You are a blithering lefty fool. You have no Theory of Mind
On top of that, as you look at this now closed hotel now used for asylum seekers, you know it is YOUR taxes paying to keep these young men in bed and board, for free
You are right in everything you say about these hotels. Same goes for the posher shire hotels that were major wedding venues and that were suddenly taken over for asylum seekers with loads of people losing out on their preferred wedding venue.
But.
(Big But)
that is the fault of a specific (last) Government policy failure. They starved the immigration service of funds and basically collapsed the whole system so that the numbers of asylum seekers being processed plummeted. The highest number of asylum applications in the in the 21st century was not in any of the last 5 years - it was actually back in 2002 when there were 84,000 applications compared to 81,000 in 2022 and 65,000 in 2023. And yet in 2002 the system ran relatively smoothly and there was very little issue with housing of asylum seekers whereas as of June last year there was a backlog of 215,000 cases. So fewer applications but vastly higher numbers of unprocessed cases.
If we had an asylum system that worked and was properly funded then we would not need to be spending hundreds of millions housing immigrants in hotels around the country.
One of the very few sensible comments on the topic all evening.
As has been noted before, long before the last election, we spend many billions every year in housing asylum seekers, in enforced economic inactivity, for years, thanks to the disfunctional asylum system.
It’s a linked, but largely separate issue to the immigration numbers that the rioters claim to be rioting about.
Spending the money to sort it out might even conceivably pay for itself.
Fascinating that a generation that is supposed to be born digital hasn't grasped that iphone filming your mate burning down a hotel and then sharing it on tiktok complete with a bit of selfie is a very bad move.
What’s the non-racist way of protesting against mass immigration?
Vote! If you're unhappy with the way the country is being run, vote!
The other way to show you're not a racist is not be a racist claiming that the Southport perp was a migrant muslim, not targeting mosques, not chanting anti-muslim abuse, not stopping only non-whites from driving past you etc etc etc.
The simple truth is that its not possible for these racists to protest in a non-racist way because they are racists.
So reading between your lines, you're saying that there is no way that you would ever approve of people taking to the streets to protest about immigration.
I can see why any mass protest about the issue of immigration is problematical to some degree, because of the potential to make minority communities feel afraid, and of course the tendency for such protests to spill over into violence.
On the other hand though, the right to free assembly probably takes precedence over that and suggests that protests about any political issue however controversial should be allowable, though policed absolutely rigidly to avoid such scenes like those we've witnessed this week.
On what planet do you draw that conclusion?
Protest? Do it. Peacefully. Burning hotels and smashing cars driven by anyone who isn't white? No.
There seems to something about white racists that doesn't lend itself to peaceful protest.
I think you’ll find that true of all racists everywhere. For example, Thai Buddhist racists when protesting about Muslims.
Myanmar Buddhists, shirley!
Them as well. But the Thai lot did put in quite a lot of time and effort in their neck of the woods.
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
The difficulty (and I doubt it is the case in Tamworth) is when a hotel in a village is the only meeting place, and where mum & toddler groups rent out its conference room, and so on. Once the hotel is given over to Asylum seekers, all ancillary functions cease.
You’re all too fucking stupid (or wilfully ignorant) to read the fucking post.
Targeting people, and the places they live, with violence is not protest. There is a more accurate word for it. A Pogrom.
No. Twat. You questioned why it should be “anyone’s business” who a hotel sells its rooms too
When it is YOUR taxes paying for that crucial hotel to be closed down and given to asylum seekers then you very much have a say and you are very much allowed to be annoyed. You’re not allowed to burn it down but my god yes you’re allowed to be angry
You didn’t understand this because you are a pathetic failure of a petit boogie wine grower who lives in fucking BALHAM
hmmm. Do I detect....? No, it couldn't be.... Could it?
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
The difficulty (and I doubt it is the case in Tamworth) is when a hotel in a village is the only meeting place, and where mum & toddler groups rent out its conference room, and so on. Once the hotel is given over to Asylum seekers, all ancillary functions cease.
You’re all too fucking stupid (or wilfully ignorant) to read the fucking post.
Targeting people, and the places they live, with violence is not protest. There is a more accurate word for it. A Pogrom.
No. Twat. You questioned why it should be “anyone’s business” who a hotel sells its rooms too
When it is YOUR taxes paying for that crucial hotel to be closed down and given to asylum seekers then you very much have a say and you are very much allowed to be annoyed. You’re not allowed to burn it down but my god yes you’re allowed to be angry
You didn’t understand this because you are a pathetic failure of a petit boogie wine grower who lives in fucking BALHAM
hmmm. Do I detect....? No, it couldn't be.... Could it?
It is not a coincidence that there is rioting while there is some *serious* ill temper in these hallowed comment sections. It's too damn hot.
Actually it's OK for me cause a) I'm in the north east (got fairly close to boro today for unrelated reasons but not whole way) b) I have air con (after a fashion) but for 95% of people it's hot and only solution is get drunk and aggressive. 2011 was the same.
I expressed views like this earlier in the day and it was pointed out to me people died in 2011. That's true. So perhaps I shouldn't be quite so light hearted about it, although I'm going to be anyway. That's just what happens with massive civil disorder which is why we don't encourage it even though it's fun to watch. But I do think this is going to be a flash in the pan. The real issues that are being used as "excuses" for this rioting do need sorting but the rioting itself? Neither here nor there imo. And look out for some exemplary sentences in next few days.
There will be exemplary sentences. And they will not work.
They will at least in the sense that the cretin involved will be off the streets for eight years.
Fascinating that a generation that is supposed to be born digital hasn't grasped that iphone filming your mate burning down a hotel and then sharing it on tiktok complete with a bit of selfie is a very bad move.
We have gone very quickly from we should be worried about what government and big tech is storing on us to the next generation just willingly giving up all information in minute detail. TikTok being a Chinese state actor whose app spies like crazy, Temu being part of PDD known for also lots of shady stuff, no matter...
Fascinating that a generation that is supposed to be born digital hasn't grasped that iphone filming your mate burning down a hotel and then sharing it on tiktok complete with a bit of selfie is a very bad move.
These scenes are not only grim. They will be recorded for all time
This is not the first time I have raised in the chamber that residents of Tamworth want their hotel back. I will work closely with the new Government and Home Secretary to end the use of the Holiday Inn for asylum purposes.
Again, for those at the back:
Complaining that a hotel is used for a reason you don’t like: fine (though quite why it’s anyone’s business who a hotel sells its rooms to I don’t know). Attacking a hotel with people in it: not fine.
Because these small town hotels are a major public amenity you fucking dummy. They are a place to send guests and family you can’t house, they are often meeting points for clubs and associations and friends. When they are taken over for asylum seekers they are entirely sealed off and they become weird menacing private spaces - where unknown young men loiter, smoking and drinking
How can you not understand this? You are a blithering lefty fool. You have no Theory of Mind
On top of that, as you look at this now closed hotel now used for asylum seekers, you know it is YOUR taxes paying to keep these young men in bed and board, for free
You are right in everything you say about these hotels. Same goes for the posher shire hotels that were major wedding venues and that were suddenly taken over for asylum seekers with loads of people losing out on their preferred wedding venue.
But.
(Big But)
that is the fault of a specific (last) Government policy failure. They starved the immigration service of funds and basically collapsed the whole system so that the numbers of asylum seekers being processed plummeted. The highest number of asylum applications in the in the 21st century was not in any of the last 5 years - it was actually back in 2002 when there were 84,000 applications compared to 81,000 in 2022 and 65,000 in 2023. And yet in 2002 the system ran relatively smoothly and there was very little issue with housing of asylum seekers whereas as of June last year there was a backlog of 215,000 cases. So fewer applications but vastly higher numbers of unprocessed cases.
If we had an asylum system that worked and was properly funded then we would not need to be spending hundreds of millions housing immigrants in hotels around the country.
One of the very few sensible comments on the topic all evening.
As has been noted before, long before the last election, we spend many billions every year in housing asylum seekers, in enforced economic inactivity, for years, thanks to the disfunctional asylum system.
It’s a linked, but largely separate issue to the immigration numbers that the rioters claim to be rioting about.
Spending the money to sort it out might even conceivably pay for itself.
Now that the asylum seekers’ boat at Portland is no longer being used, it will be available for holding rioters on remand.
"It gave her the moral clarity to fight the big banks who paid for their own misdeeds by foreclosing on working families. It gave her the strength to fight for students and veterans who were taken advantage of by a for-profit education company and it gave her the tools to win bringing rent relief and badly needed resources to low-income communities during the COVID-19 pandemic, to deliver student debt relief to countless American, to help create millions of new jobs and more.
Now, because it’s her time and her turn, she is zooming through and into history and nobody deserves it more."
"It gave her the moral clarity to fight the big banks who paid for their own misdeeds by foreclosing on working families. It gave her the strength to fight for students and veterans who were taken advantage of by a for-profit education company and it gave her the tools to win bringing rent relief and badly needed resources to low-income communities during the COVID-19 pandemic, to deliver student debt relief to countless American, to help create millions of new jobs and more.
Now, because it’s her time and her turn, she is zooming through and into history and nobody deserves it more."
Without prejudice* to the merits of the article, it is by a Democrat strategist, so whether or not it's published by Fox I don't think it being pro-Dem means a great deal....
*hope that's the right legal term, -did I convince you I know my onions?
You need to correctly use the phrase “the foregoing notwithstanding” to achieve that!
I would suggest despite having the world information in our pocket and now AI assistants to help us make sense of this, ignore levels certainly aren't lower.
Events in the Middle East over the (last/current/next) (weeks/months/years/decades/centuries) make it fairly obvious that there isn't really a fag paper between all three of the Abrahamic religions in terms of potential brutality, just depends on whose interpretation is holding sway at the time.
Leon, kyf_1000, etc are absolutely right that there is a sectarianism issue but while religious labels might be accurate in one sense they're also extremely unhelpful in terms of whose backs they put up. Much like racial ones. Or indeed talking about the one group everyone loves to hate - gypsies. Take more hatred than anyone those guys. Really obvious genuine issues too within traveller community that no one discusses rationally. But Appleby Horse Fair is a great laugh. Not sure where I'm going with this and now I've been told to wash some baby bottles. Bollocks.
Comments
Islamism, as a fundamentalist Islam that is implemented via the state, is a scary idea, but not something that I am scared of happening in the UK. If we are talking religion, Christianity has a much larger influence on my life and on the UK state.
How can you not understand this? You are a blithering lefty fool. You have no Theory of Mind
On top of that, as you look at this now closed hotel now used for asylum seekers, you know it is YOUR taxes paying to keep these young men in bed and board, for free
Famously mentioned by Mike Harding in his Barnsley Fighting Guitar sketch. Apparently Hitler didn't bomb Wath because he wanted to be able to see where he had been.
Why is everyone so scared of Islam?
We make jokes about EVERYTHING else
You’re all pussies
And Islam is scared of seeing pussy
Protest? Do it. Peacefully. Burning hotels and smashing cars driven by anyone who isn't white? No.
As do others.
I now hope his entire vineyard succumbs to frostbite
I appreciate that the lack of a function space is frustrating but...
Attacking a place where vulnerable people are staying is not OK, nor is it legal. In fact attacking an empty hotel wouldn’t be legal either.
In other places, the hotels booked stopped providing amenities like pools and gyms that the residents were using previously. In a fair number of places, a hotel provided swimming pool is the only one, locally.
So it is perfectly reasonable to question the use of long term block booking hotels vs other options.
Which is obviously much less extreme than “be concerned about Islamism”
Targeting people, and the places they live, with violence is not protest. There is a more accurate word for it. A Pogrom.
We let taxis in bus lanes because of similar blurring of lines, to pick a random example.
However that equation is going to change with insurance costs now... I wouldn't be surprised if, in echoes of Grenfell, hotels converted to asylum seeker centres will become uninsurable, and a substantial risk. So either it's going to cost a lot more to put asylum seekers up in hotels, or it's going to become impossible, which makes you wonder where they are going to go.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2779343.stm
Home Secretary David Blunkett has vowed to fight a High Court victory for six asylum seekers denied housing and benefits.
Mr Blunkett told BBC Radio 4's The World at One: "Frankly, I'm personally fed up with having to deal with a situation where Parliament debates issues and the judges then overturn them."
Mr Justice Collins said the rules as they were applied in the six test cases breached the European Convention on Human Rights.
Keir Starmer QC, representing five of the group, told the court the government's policy had forced them onto the streets.
Do we want mealy mouthed equivocation from our political leaders or do we want the unvarnished truth?
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-4-august-2024
I often contrast it with Scotland's West Highland Line, famous for its stunning vistas and the Glenfinnan Viaduct featured in Harry Potter films.
They are both completely functional yet also romantic. I can’t think of any British motorway that does that. Some American freeways do manage this.
Much like the Mark Duggan riots - no actual protesting, just violence and theft.
When it is YOUR taxes paying for that crucial hotel to be closed down and given to asylum seekers then you very much have a say and you are very much allowed to be annoyed. You’re not allowed to burn it down but my god yes you’re allowed to be angry
You didn’t understand this because you are a pathetic failure of a petit boogie wine grower who lives in fucking BALHAM
Rank hypocrisy.
I think he’s wrong on the vast majority of the stuff he opines on - and he’s oddly judgy about the US in a way he certainly isn’t about Russia - but he’s not a shill for Putin.
But.
(Big But)
that is the fault of a specific (last) Government policy failure. They starved the immigration service of funds and basically collapsed the whole system so that the numbers of asylum seekers being processed plummeted. The highest number of asylum applications in the in the 21st century was not in any of the last 5 years - it was actually back in 2002 when there were 84,000 applications compared to 81,000 in 2022 and 65,000 in 2023. And yet in 2002 the system ran relatively smoothly and there was very little issue with housing of asylum seekers whereas as of June last year there was a backlog of 215,000 cases. So fewer applications but vastly higher numbers of unprocessed cases.
If we had an asylum system that worked and was properly funded then we would not need to be spending hundreds of millions housing immigrants in hotels around the country.
But hotels close or change use all the time. People complain. They might write letters to the council. They don’t go attacking the hotels. Funnily enough that only happens when people from an ethnic group that they hate are staying there.
This is a classic example of penny wise, pound foolish. And it results in unhappy voters.
That was in ultra Liberal North Minnesota Nice.
Actually it's OK for me cause a) I'm in the north east (got fairly close to boro today for unrelated reasons but not whole way) b) I have air con (after a fashion) but for 95% of people it's hot and only solution is get drunk and aggressive. 2011 was the same.
I expressed views like this earlier in the day and it was pointed out to me people died in 2011. That's true. So perhaps I shouldn't be quite so light hearted about it, although I'm going to be anyway. That's just what happens with massive civil disorder which is why we don't encourage it even though it's fun to watch. But I do think this is going to be a flash in the pan. The real issues that are being used as "excuses" for this rioting do need sorting but the rioting itself? Neither here nor there imo. And look out for some exemplary sentences in next few days.
"It gave her the moral clarity to fight the big banks who paid for their own misdeeds by foreclosing on working families. It gave her the strength to fight for students and veterans who were taken advantage of by a for-profit education company and it gave her the tools to win bringing rent relief and badly needed resources to low-income communities during the COVID-19 pandemic, to deliver student debt relief to countless American, to help create millions of new jobs and more.
Now, because it’s her time and her turn, she is zooming through and into history and nobody deserves it more."
This is an article on Fox News behind a paywall but published in the Baltimore Post.
https://thebaltimorepost.com/2024/08/03/fox-news-kamala-harris-is-once-in-a-generation-candidate-and-this-is-a-once-in-a-generation-moment-for-america/
Is Trump really imploding?
And the RCP 5 way now has Harris in the lead.
As it so happens my wife and I crossed that mixed gauge level crossing on our day trip on the Welsh Highland Railway from Caernarfon to Porthmadog and return 10 days ago
The journey is one of Wales Great Little Trains and I would recommend it to anyone who loves narrow gauge, steam hauled vintage engines and fabulous scenery
My wife and I are doing the Blaenau Ffestiniog to Porthmadog Quarryman Rail journey on Tuesday and going from Llandudno to Blaenau on the main line service which concludes at Blaenau and where we cross the platform for the Quarryman
Babbage was of course famously assisted by Ada Lovelace. The only legitimate child of Byron. Just saying.
Hard to see how simply increasing the rate at which we process applications wouldn't end up being the best value solution in the medium-long term, though.
I’m massively pro anti Islamist Muslims like TSE
There aren’t enough TSEs
Do no harm.
That's all.
*hope that's the right legal term, did I convince you I know my onions?
As has been noted before, long before the last election, we spend many billions every year in housing asylum seekers, in enforced economic inactivity, for years, thanks to the disfunctional asylum system.
It’s a linked, but largely separate issue to the immigration numbers that the rioters claim to be rioting about.
Spending the money to sort it out might even conceivably pay for itself.
@sammywoodhouse1
Leon, kyf_1000, etc are absolutely right that there is a sectarianism issue but while religious labels might be accurate in one sense they're also extremely unhelpful in terms of whose backs they put up. Much like racial ones. Or indeed talking about the one group everyone loves to hate - gypsies. Take more hatred than anyone those guys. Really obvious genuine issues too within traveller community that no one discusses rationally. But Appleby Horse Fair is a great laugh. Not sure where I'm going with this and now I've been told to wash some baby bottles. Bollocks.