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Are we underestimating the chances of James Cleverly? – politicalbetting.com

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  • TresTres Posts: 2,648

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Awful scenes yesterday in Sunderland, and my friend in Newcastle has been told by their friend at the RVI that they are on alert for a potential riot in Newcastle today.

    Time that we crack down on these micro-brain “patriots”. We can’t jail them as they are full, and they are a menace to society. So why not deport them to Rwanda? We already spent the money on that, let’s get best value for the taxpayer

    These riots could now become a feature not a bug

    Why? Because the underlying cause - mass immigration and unchecked boat people - is not going away. It might easily get worse. There will be another Southport, another Manchester arena - tragically. And next time the explosion will be instant

    Starmer doesn’t appear to remotely understand this. He thinks it’s a passing issue of civil disorder
    It’s not just mass migration it is economic decline in these areas while growth, prosperity and spending is lavished on the south and the perception of two tier policing as well.

    Violent BLM protests were reported as ‘mostly peaceful’

    This allows the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard.
    Can I suggest some things which allow the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard? People going on about Muslims supposedly being problematic in reaction to a tragic event that involved 0 Muslims; or going on about "legitimate questions" in the face of violent riots; or saying we need to have conversation about immigration as if we haven't been having a conversation about immigration over and over for at least a decade; or whatabout-ing the violence instead of condemning it.

    I propose the best way to stop the likes of Tommy Robinson being heard is for everyone to condemn Robinson and the thugs who chant his name.
    Well at the moment we have no idea how to integrate a large portion of the Muslim population into the UK. That discussion ought to be happening, hopefully in a way that doesn't inflame racial tensions. But it can't be avoided any longer.
    Integration is a two-way street. What's stopping you going out and making a new friend?
  • Deleted. - vanilla
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,258

    Dura_Ace said:

    ..

    Scott_xP said:

    I don't doubt events on Monday will make Labour more worried about the impact of the small boats issue. Will they make any policy change? Not sure.

    How does torching a CAB help Stop the Boats?

    It doesn't.

    If Labour change any policies to appease these racists fukwits then democracy is dead.
    Do you not know the days of the week? Monday was the day three girls were stabbed to death and many more could have been by the son of Rwandan migrants. You're a fool if you don't think that won't influence the public at all.
    The narrative was created on Twitter by a right wing agent provocateur. A woman who has form for fake news. Farage, either by cockup or conspiracy ran with that narrative.

    Loads of people calling LBC later this week were sticking with the alleged murderer being a Syrian (Muslim) Refugee. The notion that a lie gets half way around the world before the truth has got it's boots on is a truism.
    It wouldn't surprise me if LBC deliberately put those people through. But again do we have any hard data on how many believed the Syrian refugee story?

    Anyway the rioters are thugs from what I can see. If people really want to draw attention to migration problems they can glue themselves to the road which I'd suggest would be more effective.
    The mindless violence and boorishness of the Yaxley Lennon brigade is the biggest asset their opponents have.
    Fckn hell, sort your quotes out!
    Those are my words. Since sorted that quoting clusterfuck in any case before the six minute hammer dropped.
    Post election come down, innit? Blue vermin sent packing and we now contemplate the new reality.

    Hopefully we'll have a really good, blood drenched and flame wreathed riot season. Then the tory conference should be a laugh, then we're into the US Presidential carnage, then Strictly then it's the Holidays.
    But which is the most destructive event? I'm going with Strictly!
    I might actually watch the next series. See if I can spot the trauma amongst the tinsel.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    edited August 3
    Taz said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Awful scenes yesterday in Sunderland, and my friend in Newcastle has been told by their friend at the RVI that they are on alert for a potential riot in Newcastle today.

    Time that we crack down on these micro-brain “patriots”. We can’t jail them as they are full, and they are a menace to society. So why not deport them to Rwanda? We already spent the money on that, let’s get best value for the taxpayer

    These riots could now become a feature not a bug

    Why? Because the underlying cause - mass immigration and unchecked boat people - is not going away. It might easily get worse. There will be another Southport, another Manchester arena - tragically. And next time the explosion will be instant

    Starmer doesn’t appear to remotely understand this. He thinks it’s a passing issue of civil disorder
    Part of the problem is that Starmer has zero credibility and his actions have made things worse not better

    Solemn press conferences promising to metaphorically cosh them all is fine if you react that way to any riot. But not when you only do it with rioters whos root political cause you despise as oppose to sympathise with.

    7th June 2020.

    “27 police officers injured during largely peaceful anti-racism protests in London”

    https://x.com/bbcnews/status/1269574979680702470

    [Wikipedia] "In London, BLM protesters clashed with police. A protester was seen climbing onto The Cenotaph war memorial and attempted to set the Union Jack on fire.[102] The words "was a racist" were painted onto a statue of Sir Winston Churchill."

    "A crowd of at least 5,000 people marched from Bristol's College Green to The Centre where they tore down the statue, dragged and dumped it into Bristol Harbour.[106][107] The empty plinth was used as a stage for protesters"

    9th June 2020.

    @keirstarmer We kneel with all those opposing anti-Black racism. #BlackLivesMatter

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1270374388488167428.

    Note the word "All"







    Starmer really winds you up doesn't he?
    Its not me you need to worry about. I'm happy to sit here in rural Bedfordshire on a glorious summer day and watch while he implodes under his own contradictions and look forward to the next election, relishing watching their most sacred shibboleths like the Climate Change act slowly screwing them.

    The millions who can't get a roof over their heads except at eyewatering prices due to competition from immigrants and unable to get anything other than low paid wprk due to plentiful immigrants meaning employers can get away with low wages.

    They are getting VERY wound up and there are rather a lot of them.

    I actually feel sorry for the immigrants who are being exploited by the powers that be for cheap labour and political gain.


    Vanilla effed up. Response here.

    The importation of cheap migrants to do jobs in care homes due to low pay here when they should simply increase the hourly rate is a scandal. These are not skilled professionals who add to the U.K. who are the migrants we really want and need. Coming in to wipe pensioners bums for minimum wage. The real problem is they bring with them children who need educating, at a cost, and other economically inactive dependents who become a net burden on society. All to save a quid or two an hour.

    This guy brought his wife and four kids expecting care home work.

    https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-100-migrants-face-being-in-uk-illegally-as-care-agency-is-stripped-of-ability-to-endorse-visas-13178490
    How is a family of six supposed to exist on one minimum wage salary? It does appear that too many of these agencies are an immigration scam.

    The way to recruit care workers at scale is remarkably easy. Set up an office close to the British embassy in Manila. Take newly-qualified nurses, of whom there are hundreds of thousands in the Philippines, bring them over as care workers and have them work towards registered nursing qualifications in the UK.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,258
    Great atmosphere at these Olympics.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,196

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Awful scenes yesterday in Sunderland, and my friend in Newcastle has been told by their friend at the RVI that they are on alert for a potential riot in Newcastle today.

    Time that we crack down on these micro-brain “patriots”. We can’t jail them as they are full, and they are a menace to society. So why not deport them to Rwanda? We already spent the money on that, let’s get best value for the taxpayer

    These riots could now become a feature not a bug

    Why? Because the underlying cause - mass immigration and unchecked boat people - is not going away. It might easily get worse. There will be another Southport, another Manchester arena - tragically. And next time the explosion will be instant

    Starmer doesn’t appear to remotely understand this. He thinks it’s a passing issue of civil disorder
    It’s not just mass migration it is economic decline in these areas while growth, prosperity and spending is lavished on the south and the perception of two tier policing as well.

    Violent BLM protests were reported as ‘mostly peaceful’

    This allows the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard.
    Can I suggest some things which allow the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard? People going on about Muslims supposedly being problematic in reaction to a tragic event that involved 0 Muslims; or going on about "legitimate questions" in the face of violent riots; or saying we need to have conversation about immigration as if we haven't been having a conversation about immigration over and over for at least a decade; or whatabout-ing the violence instead of condemning it.

    I propose the best way to stop the likes of Tommy Robinson being heard is for everyone to condemn Robinson and the thugs who chant his name.
    Well at the moment we have no idea how to integrate a large portion of the Muslim population into the UK. That discussion ought to be happening, hopefully in a way that doesn't inflame racial tensions. But it can't be avoided any longer.
    No Muslims were involved in the Southport stabbing. Muslims have not been rioting. What I think inflames racial tensions is to react to a terrible tragedy of three young girls being killed and then the senseless violence of rioters by saying the underlying problem is people who had nothing to do with either of these events.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,539
    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Awful scenes yesterday in Sunderland, and my friend in Newcastle has been told by their friend at the RVI that they are on alert for a potential riot in Newcastle today.

    Time that we crack down on these micro-brain “patriots”. We can’t jail them as they are full, and they are a menace to society. So why not deport them to Rwanda? We already spent the money on that, let’s get best value for the taxpayer

    These riots could now become a feature not a bug

    Why? Because the underlying cause - mass immigration and unchecked boat people - is not going away. It might easily get worse. There will be another Southport, another Manchester arena - tragically. And next time the explosion will be instant

    Starmer doesn’t appear to remotely understand this. He thinks it’s a passing issue of civil disorder
    It’s not just mass migration it is economic decline in these areas while growth, prosperity and spending is lavished on the south and the perception of two tier policing as well.

    Violent BLM protests were reported as ‘mostly peaceful’

    This allows the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard.
    Can I suggest some things which allow the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard? People going on about Muslims supposedly being problematic in reaction to a tragic event that involved 0 Muslims; or going on about "legitimate questions" in the face of violent riots; or saying we need to have conversation about immigration as if we haven't been having a conversation about immigration over and over for at least a decade; or whatabout-ing the violence instead of condemning it.

    I propose the best way to stop the likes of Tommy Robinson being heard is for everyone to condemn Robinson and the thugs who chant his name.
    Well at the moment we have no idea how to integrate a large portion of the Muslim population into the UK. That discussion ought to be happening, hopefully in a way that doesn't inflame racial tensions. But it can't be avoided any longer.
    Integration is a two-way street. What's stopping you going out and making a new friend?
    Nothing, I do it all the time. But when people insist on asserting the primacy of their own cultural and moral framework over the national one you have a problem.
  • WildernessPt2WildernessPt2 Posts: 305

    ...

    Much as despise the slimy git, Jenrick sounded very confident and facilely plausible on R4 this am.

    I think he's the Tories' best bet. He means what he says. That gives him a huge advantage over the likes of Cleverley and poor old Tom Tugendhat.

    I don't believe Jenrick "means what he says". He plays to his audience. Now the argument on here is that is what Starmer did to become LOTO, and that maybe true. Although Starmer jettisoned the extremists. I doubt Jenrick will. Taking a cue from the "we want our country back" brigade throwing rocks in Sunderland he will go full on Make England Great Again.

    That's the point. Jenrick won't jettison the extremists. He will do what he says.

    How will we know ? Given Labour label anyone conservative as "far right" its unknowable. Is David Cameron far right ?

    David Cameron would have condemned these riots unequivocally. No ifs, no buts. As Tim Montgomerie pointed out, Margaret Thatcher would have done so too.

    well yes, but given the lack of moderation in how you describe the right everyone in your book is far right. Its one of the weaknesses of political polemic.

    Somehow we have lost the bulk of right wing voters who are just conservative. Everyone is an extremist and of the worst kind.

    I wouldn't describe you as an extremist, just a saloon bar contrarian.

    Oh Im definitely conservative, 1ts just there hasnt been a conservative party for quite some time. Big State, big spend internationalism is Labour, not Conservative

    Well, Mrs Thatcher was the driving force for the creation of the Single Market - but I know where you are coming from. I don't agree with it but I see it as an entirely respectable and understandable political viewpoint. What I find very worrying about modern Conservatism is all this nonsense about the deep state and the blob and the relentless attacks on our institutions and the rule of law. Margaret Thatcher never entertained any of that nonsense.

    The Single Market was probably her greatest achievement. I cant believe the bozos in government enthusiastically left it. The Thatcherisation of a continent. You still get lots of pork barrel stuff in the EU but its pretty hard for a government to feather its domestic and state providers for public services.
    Perhaps Europe's economic stagnation is the result of this?
    You think? How would that be? For a Conservative to see Europe's stagnation as a consequence of competitive free trade would throw a lot of what would be traditional conservatism under the bus (with or without a number on its side).
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,206
    TimS said:

    moonshine said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Awful scenes yesterday in Sunderland, and my friend in Newcastle has been told by their friend at the RVI that they are on alert for a potential riot in Newcastle today.

    Time that we crack down on these micro-brain “patriots”. We can’t jail them as they are full, and they are a menace to society. So why not deport them to Rwanda? We already spent the money on that, let’s get best value for the taxpayer

    These riots could now become a feature not a bug

    Why? Because the underlying cause - mass immigration and unchecked boat people - is not going away. It might easily get worse. There will be another Southport, another Manchester arena - tragically. And next time the explosion will be instant

    Starmer doesn’t appear to remotely understand this. He thinks it’s a passing issue of civil disorder
    It’s not just mass migration it is economic decline in these areas while growth, prosperity and spending is lavished on the south and the perception of two tier policing as well.

    Violent BLM protests were reported as ‘mostly peaceful’

    This allows the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard.
    Can I suggest some things which allow the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard? People going on about Muslims supposedly being problematic in reaction to a tragic event that involved 0 Muslims; or going on about "legitimate questions" in the face of violent riots; or saying we need to have conversation about immigration as if we haven't been having a conversation about immigration over and over for at least a decade; or whatabout-ing the violence instead of condemning it.

    I propose the best way to stop the likes of Tommy Robinson being heard is for everyone to condemn Robinson and the thugs who chant his name.
    We’ve had little else other than a conversation about immigration since about 2005.

    The Tories banged on about it endlessly while numbers went up. If people want to reduce immigration then “having a conversation about it” doesn’t appear to be particularly effective.
    The dishonesty in that conversation is the problem. What was the point in “take back control” when you see the net numbers since 2016.
    And yet apparently this is all down to Labour, who’ve been in power for just under a month.
    Stop moaning Mr S this is the joy of being in office. You have to defend government idiocy and bad decisions which gets wearing over time. Those on the other side of the coin can howl at the moon and be responsible for nothing.

    If a right wing govt had got off to this bad a start you wouldnt be holding back, so why deny others their fun ?
  • TresTres Posts: 2,648

    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Awful scenes yesterday in Sunderland, and my friend in Newcastle has been told by their friend at the RVI that they are on alert for a potential riot in Newcastle today.

    Time that we crack down on these micro-brain “patriots”. We can’t jail them as they are full, and they are a menace to society. So why not deport them to Rwanda? We already spent the money on that, let’s get best value for the taxpayer

    These riots could now become a feature not a bug

    Why? Because the underlying cause - mass immigration and unchecked boat people - is not going away. It might easily get worse. There will be another Southport, another Manchester arena - tragically. And next time the explosion will be instant

    Starmer doesn’t appear to remotely understand this. He thinks it’s a passing issue of civil disorder
    It’s not just mass migration it is economic decline in these areas while growth, prosperity and spending is lavished on the south and the perception of two tier policing as well.

    Violent BLM protests were reported as ‘mostly peaceful’

    This allows the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard.
    Can I suggest some things which allow the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard? People going on about Muslims supposedly being problematic in reaction to a tragic event that involved 0 Muslims; or going on about "legitimate questions" in the face of violent riots; or saying we need to have conversation about immigration as if we haven't been having a conversation about immigration over and over for at least a decade; or whatabout-ing the violence instead of condemning it.

    I propose the best way to stop the likes of Tommy Robinson being heard is for everyone to condemn Robinson and the thugs who chant his name.
    Well at the moment we have no idea how to integrate a large portion of the Muslim population into the UK. That discussion ought to be happening, hopefully in a way that doesn't inflame racial tensions. But it can't be avoided any longer.
    Integration is a two-way street. What's stopping you going out and making a new friend?
    Nothing, I do it all the time. But when people insist on asserting the primacy of their own cultural and moral framework over the national one you have a problem.
    Yet Stamford Hill still exists.
  • ...

    Much as despise the slimy git, Jenrick sounded very confident and facilely plausible on R4 this am.

    I think he's the Tories' best bet. He means what he says. That gives him a huge advantage over the likes of Cleverley and poor old Tom Tugendhat.

    I don't believe Jenrick "means what he says". He plays to his audience. Now the argument on here is that is what Starmer did to become LOTO, and that maybe true. Although Starmer jettisoned the extremists. I doubt Jenrick will. Taking a cue from the "we want our country back" brigade throwing rocks in Sunderland he will go full on Make England Great Again.

    That's the point. Jenrick won't jettison the extremists. He will do what he says.

    How will we know ? Given Labour label anyone conservative as "far right" its unknowable. Is David Cameron far right ?

    David Cameron would have condemned these riots unequivocally. No ifs, no buts. As Tim Montgomerie pointed out, Margaret Thatcher would have done so too.

    well yes, but given the lack of moderation in how you describe the right everyone in your book is far right. Its one of the weaknesses of political polemic.

    Somehow we have lost the bulk of right wing voters who are just conservative. Everyone is an extremist and of the worst kind.

    I wouldn't describe you as an extremist, just a saloon bar contrarian.

    Oh Im definitely conservative, 1ts just there hasnt been a conservative party for quite some time. Big State, big spend internationalism is Labour, not Conservative

    Well, Mrs Thatcher was the driving force for the creation of the Single Market - but I know where you are coming from. I don't agree with it but I see it as an entirely respectable and understandable political viewpoint. What I find very worrying about modern Conservatism is all this nonsense about the deep state and the blob and the relentless attacks on our institutions and the rule of law. Margaret Thatcher never entertained any of that nonsense.

    The Single Market was probably her greatest achievement. I cant believe the bozos in government enthusiastically left it. The Thatcherisation of a continent. You still get lots of pork barrel stuff in the EU but its pretty hard for a government to feather its domestic and state providers for public services.
    Perhaps Europe's economic stagnation is the result of this?
    The problem is that once adopted at Eureopean Level it is virtually cast in stone and exceptionally difficult to reverse, even when it is obvious that it isn't working out that well for most.

    Post Brexit - a majority vote in the HoC can sweep the lot away virtually overnight.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,272
    GP services really have collapsed round here. Put in an Online request yesterday (they've abandoned phone requests altogether) for an urgent issue which needs new medication prescribed, got a text offering a telephone appointment on August 20th!
    By contrast. Phoned 111. Answered immediately. Phone call from clinician within the hour.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,539
    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Awful scenes yesterday in Sunderland, and my friend in Newcastle has been told by their friend at the RVI that they are on alert for a potential riot in Newcastle today.

    Time that we crack down on these micro-brain “patriots”. We can’t jail them as they are full, and they are a menace to society. So why not deport them to Rwanda? We already spent the money on that, let’s get best value for the taxpayer

    These riots could now become a feature not a bug

    Why? Because the underlying cause - mass immigration and unchecked boat people - is not going away. It might easily get worse. There will be another Southport, another Manchester arena - tragically. And next time the explosion will be instant

    Starmer doesn’t appear to remotely understand this. He thinks it’s a passing issue of civil disorder
    It’s not just mass migration it is economic decline in these areas while growth, prosperity and spending is lavished on the south and the perception of two tier policing as well.

    Violent BLM protests were reported as ‘mostly peaceful’

    This allows the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard.
    Can I suggest some things which allow the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard? People going on about Muslims supposedly being problematic in reaction to a tragic event that involved 0 Muslims; or going on about "legitimate questions" in the face of violent riots; or saying we need to have conversation about immigration as if we haven't been having a conversation about immigration over and over for at least a decade; or whatabout-ing the violence instead of condemning it.

    I propose the best way to stop the likes of Tommy Robinson being heard is for everyone to condemn Robinson and the thugs who chant his name.
    Well at the moment we have no idea how to integrate a large portion of the Muslim population into the UK. That discussion ought to be happening, hopefully in a way that doesn't inflame racial tensions. But it can't be avoided any longer.
    Integration is a two-way street. What's stopping you going out and making a new friend?
    Nothing, I do it all the time. But when people insist on asserting the primacy of their own cultural and moral framework over the national one you have a problem.
    Yet Stamford Hill still exists.
    What does that mean?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,605

    ...

    Much as despise the slimy git, Jenrick sounded very confident and facilely plausible on R4 this am.

    I think he's the Tories' best bet. He means what he says. That gives him a huge advantage over the likes of Cleverley and poor old Tom Tugendhat.

    I don't believe Jenrick "means what he says". He plays to his audience. Now the argument on here is that is what Starmer did to become LOTO, and that maybe true. Although Starmer jettisoned the extremists. I doubt Jenrick will. Taking a cue from the "we want our country back" brigade throwing rocks in Sunderland he will go full on Make England Great Again.

    That's the point. Jenrick won't jettison the extremists. He will do what he says.

    How will we know ? Given Labour label anyone conservative as "far right" its unknowable. Is David Cameron far right ?

    David Cameron would have condemned these riots unequivocally. No ifs, no buts. As Tim Montgomerie pointed out, Margaret Thatcher would have done so too.

    well yes, but given the lack of moderation in how you describe the right everyone in your book is far right. Its one of the weaknesses of political polemic.

    Somehow we have lost the bulk of right wing voters who are just conservative. Everyone is an extremist and of the worst kind.

    I wouldn't describe you as an extremist, just a saloon bar contrarian.

    Oh Im definitely conservative, 1ts just there hasnt been a conservative party for quite some time. Big State, big spend internationalism is Labour, not Conservative

    Well, Mrs Thatcher was the driving force for the creation of the Single Market - but I know where you are coming from. I don't agree with it but I see it as an entirely respectable and understandable political viewpoint. What I find very worrying about modern Conservatism is all this nonsense about the deep state and the blob and the relentless attacks on our institutions and the rule of law. Margaret Thatcher never entertained any of that nonsense.

    The Single Market was probably her greatest achievement. I cant believe the bozos in government enthusiastically left it. The Thatcherisation of a continent. You still get lots of pork barrel stuff in the EU but its pretty hard for a government to feather its domestic and state providers for public services.
    Perhaps Europe's economic stagnation is the result of this?
    You think? How would that be? For a Conservative to see Europe's stagnation as a consequence of competitive free trade would throw a lot of what would be traditional conservatism under the bus (with or without a number on its side).
    What’s your explanation for why Europe has failed to build any serious rivals to Google et al during the period since the creation of the single market?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,572
    For just a little while, the UK is above the US in the Olympic medal table
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112

    TimS said:

    moonshine said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Awful scenes yesterday in Sunderland, and my friend in Newcastle has been told by their friend at the RVI that they are on alert for a potential riot in Newcastle today.

    Time that we crack down on these micro-brain “patriots”. We can’t jail them as they are full, and they are a menace to society. So why not deport them to Rwanda? We already spent the money on that, let’s get best value for the taxpayer

    These riots could now become a feature not a bug

    Why? Because the underlying cause - mass immigration and unchecked boat people - is not going away. It might easily get worse. There will be another Southport, another Manchester arena - tragically. And next time the explosion will be instant

    Starmer doesn’t appear to remotely understand this. He thinks it’s a passing issue of civil disorder
    It’s not just mass migration it is economic decline in these areas while growth, prosperity and spending is lavished on the south and the perception of two tier policing as well.

    Violent BLM protests were reported as ‘mostly peaceful’

    This allows the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard.
    Can I suggest some things which allow the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard? People going on about Muslims supposedly being problematic in reaction to a tragic event that involved 0 Muslims; or going on about "legitimate questions" in the face of violent riots; or saying we need to have conversation about immigration as if we haven't been having a conversation about immigration over and over for at least a decade; or whatabout-ing the violence instead of condemning it.

    I propose the best way to stop the likes of Tommy Robinson being heard is for everyone to condemn Robinson and the thugs who chant his name.
    We’ve had little else other than a conversation about immigration since about 2005.

    The Tories banged on about it endlessly while numbers went up. If people want to reduce immigration then “having a conversation about it” doesn’t appear to be particularly effective.
    The dishonesty in that conversation is the problem. What was the point in “take back control” when you see the net numbers since 2016.
    And yet apparently this is all down to Labour, who’ve been in power for just under a month.
    Stop moaning Mr S this is the joy of being in office. You have to defend government idiocy and bad decisions which gets wearing over time. Those on the other side of the coin can howl at the moon and be responsible for nothing.

    If a right wing govt had got off to this bad a start you wouldnt be holding back, so why deny others their fun ?
    As I have pointed out many times, I am a Lib Dem. Unencumbered by the trappings of power.

    Unlike Tories however I am not in the throes of grief and denial, so am a little more immune to SDS.
  • IanB2 said:

    For just a little while, the UK is above the US in the Olympic medal table

    Not the way the Americans calculate it!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,455
    IanB2 said:

    For just a little while, the UK is above the US in the Olympic medal table

    A PB pedant notes: it must be tricky to sort out the south bit of West Island from the north bit when adding up the totals.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,159
    IanB2 said:

    For just a little while, the UK is above the US in the Olympic medal table

    The US are having a poor games so far, I think their traditional strength in the swimming hasn't come through this time at all normally they'd have 10 more golds than they do currently just from swimming.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,226

    ...

    Much as despise the slimy git, Jenrick sounded very confident and facilely plausible on R4 this am.

    I think he's the Tories' best bet. He means what he says. That gives him a huge advantage over the likes of Cleverley and poor old Tom Tugendhat.

    I don't believe Jenrick "means what he says". He plays to his audience. Now the argument on here is that is what Starmer did to become LOTO, and that maybe true. Although Starmer jettisoned the extremists. I doubt Jenrick will. Taking a cue from the "we want our country back" brigade throwing rocks in Sunderland he will go full on Make England Great Again.

    That's the point. Jenrick won't jettison the extremists. He will do what he says.

    How will we know ? Given Labour label anyone conservative as "far right" its unknowable. Is David Cameron far right ?

    David Cameron would have condemned these riots unequivocally. No ifs, no buts. As Tim Montgomerie pointed out, Margaret Thatcher would have done so too.

    well yes, but given the lack of moderation in how you describe the right everyone in your book is far right. Its one of the weaknesses of political polemic.

    Somehow we have lost the bulk of right wing voters who are just conservative. Everyone is an extremist and of the worst kind.

    I wouldn't describe you as an extremist, just a saloon bar contrarian.

    Oh Im definitely conservative, 1ts just there hasnt been a conservative party for quite some time. Big State, big spend internationalism is Labour, not Conservative

    Well, Mrs Thatcher was the driving force for the creation of the Single Market - but I know where you are coming from. I don't agree with it but I see it as an entirely respectable and understandable political viewpoint. What I find very worrying about modern Conservatism is all this nonsense about the deep state and the blob and the relentless attacks on our institutions and the rule of law. Margaret Thatcher never entertained any of that nonsense.

    The Single Market was probably her greatest achievement. I cant believe the bozos in government enthusiastically left it. The Thatcherisation of a continent. You still get lots of pork barrel stuff in the EU but its pretty hard for a government to feather its domestic and state providers for public services.
    What was the UK's trade balance with the EU during the single market ?

    Free trade is good for countries which invest in production.

    Its not so good for countries which sell off their assets to foreigners in order to subsidise consumption.
  • Some people on here should grow up. Seriously. Being a middle-aged man and behaving like a 12-year old isn't big, isn't clever and isn't attractive. No names no pack drill because even if you don't know who I'm talking about everyone else does.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,310

    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Awful scenes yesterday in Sunderland, and my friend in Newcastle has been told by their friend at the RVI that they are on alert for a potential riot in Newcastle today.

    Time that we crack down on these micro-brain “patriots”. We can’t jail them as they are full, and they are a menace to society. So why not deport them to Rwanda? We already spent the money on that, let’s get best value for the taxpayer

    These riots could now become a feature not a bug

    Why? Because the underlying cause - mass immigration and unchecked boat people - is not going away. It might easily get worse. There will be another Southport, another Manchester arena - tragically. And next time the explosion will be instant

    Starmer doesn’t appear to remotely understand this. He thinks it’s a passing issue of civil disorder
    It’s not just mass migration it is economic decline in these areas while growth, prosperity and spending is lavished on the south and the perception of two tier policing as well.

    Violent BLM protests were reported as ‘mostly peaceful’

    This allows the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard.
    Can I suggest some things which allow the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard? People going on about Muslims supposedly being problematic in reaction to a tragic event that involved 0 Muslims; or going on about "legitimate questions" in the face of violent riots; or saying we need to have conversation about immigration as if we haven't been having a conversation about immigration over and over for at least a decade; or whatabout-ing the violence instead of condemning it.

    I propose the best way to stop the likes of Tommy Robinson being heard is for everyone to condemn Robinson and the thugs who chant his name.
    Well at the moment we have no idea how to integrate a large portion of the Muslim population into the UK. That discussion ought to be happening, hopefully in a way that doesn't inflame racial tensions. But it can't be avoided any longer.
    Integration is a two-way street. What's stopping you going out and making a new friend?
    Nothing, I do it all the time. But when people insist on asserting the primacy of their own cultural and moral framework over the national one you have a problem.
    Yes, I think Tommy Robinson and Nigel Farage asserting the primacy of their own cultural and moral framework over the national one is a problem.
    Yes, tolerance and fairness are both quintessential elements of what it means to be British and what we pride ourselves most on. There is nothing British about the hatred promoted by those two bullies.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    kinabalu said:

    Great atmosphere at these Olympics.

    For many of us the Track and Field is the highlight of the Olympics, and the 100m final tomorrow night the biggest event of the whole Games.

    Women’s 100m final tonight, where we could see one of the most controversial world records ever set finally consigned to history after 36 years.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,572
    TimS said:

    Another morning, another double take as I cast my eye down the medal table, down down down, and finally there is Germany with 2 gold medals. A gold below Romania.

    (By the way the Romanian national anthem is very good).


    A revolutionary song from 1848, all about barbaric tyrants, sung during the overthrow of Ceaucescu and adopted as the new anthem not long after.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,226
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Another morning, another double take as I cast my eye down the medal table, down down down, and finally there is Germany with 2 gold medals. A gold below Romania.

    (By the way the Romanian national anthem is very good).

    Have Germany just narrowly missed out on lots of golds, like the USA? No, they have 7 medals in total.

    Meanwhile France, GB and Italy, the other major European economies, have 11, 10 and 5 golds each.

    What has happened? Has Germany just stopped investing in Olympic sports? They used to win the Olympics. More than that, West Germany and East Germany used to battle it out at the top of the board.

    And the other one is Poland. Emerging giant of the EU, 4 medals, zero golds.

    But seriously what’s up with Germany? Perhaps they scrape it back in the track and field events.
    Germany has been in decline at the Olympics for over three decades.

    A large part of it is because of the relative change of funding compared to other countries - for example the GB team were effectively amateurs up until the embarrassment of 1996.

    East Germany was notorious for the state support (much of it illegal) of its athletes.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,040
    dixiedean said:

    GP services really have collapsed round here. Put in an Online request yesterday (they've abandoned phone requests altogether) for an urgent issue which needs new medication prescribed, got a text offering a telephone appointment on August 20th!
    By contrast. Phoned 111. Answered immediately. Phone call from clinician within the hour.

    Not good at all. In this small town I get at least a phone consultation within a couple of days, and generally the same day. Prescriptions take a bit longer than I think they ought to, thought, but I have a feeling there's a double checking system somewhere that fouls things up.
    Bitter complaint, though, in the similar sized community a couple of miles away, with a similar sized GP practice.

    I think a lot depends on management ability in the practice. Being a 'good' GP doesn't automatically mean one is a good manager.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    For just a little while, the UK is above the US in the Olympic medal table

    The US are having a poor games so far, I think their traditional strength in the swimming hasn't come through this time at all normally they'd have 10 more golds than they do currently just from swimming.
    They have a poor gold to total medal ratio. 9/44. The converse of Australia who have won where it counts (11/22). Very good games for the Australians so far.

    I note Germany are now up to 3 golds thanks to my comments.
  • Scott_xP said:

    I don't doubt events on Monday will make Labour more worried about the impact of the small boats issue. Will they make any policy change? Not sure.

    How does torching a CAB help Stop the Boats?

    It doesn't.

    If Labour change any policies to appease these racists fukwits then democracy is dead.
    How does tipping a statue into a river in Bristol and injuring 27 police officers in London help the cause of anti-racism?

    Didn't stop Starmer and Rayner kneeling in their honour two days later.

    Didn't think that one through properly did they?

    Keir Starmer: pulling down Edward Colston statue was wrong

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/08/keir-starmer-edward-colston-bristol-statue-wrong

    Didn't stop him kneeling to them the next day did it?

    He wasn't kneeling in support of toppling a statue.

    He probably didn't think he was either.

    The lesson, if you don't want to be widely seen as appeasing or supporting rioters whos cause you sympathise with. Don't genuflect to them when that genuflecting is the symbol of nonviolent and volient supporters of the cause alike.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    IanB2 said:

    TimS said:

    Another morning, another double take as I cast my eye down the medal table, down down down, and finally there is Germany with 2 gold medals. A gold below Romania.

    (By the way the Romanian national anthem is very good).


    A revolutionary song from 1848, all about barbaric tyrants, sung during the overthrow of Ceaucescu and adopted as the new anthem not long after.
    So revolutionary songs are clearly the best national anthems.

    The Marseillaise, the Soviet anthem, the Romanian. What others?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Another morning, another double take as I cast my eye down the medal table, down down down, and finally there is Germany with 2 gold medals. A gold below Romania.

    (By the way the Romanian national anthem is very good).

    Have Germany just narrowly missed out on lots of golds, like the USA? No, they have 7 medals in total.

    Meanwhile France, GB and Italy, the other major European economies, have 11, 10 and 5 golds each.

    What has happened? Has Germany just stopped investing in Olympic sports? They used to win the Olympics. More than that, West Germany and East Germany used to battle it out at the top of the board.

    And the other one is Poland. Emerging giant of the EU, 4 medals, zero golds.

    But seriously what’s up with Germany? Perhaps they scrape it back in the track and field events.
    Germany has been in decline at the Olympics for over three decades.

    A large part of it is because of the relative change of funding compared to other countries - for example the GB team were effectively amateurs up until the embarrassment of 1996.

    East Germany was notorious for the state support (much of it illegal) of its athletes.
    Indeed, until the lottery funding came along the majority of the athletes and coaches were part-time amateurs. Now there’s huge programmes of professional athletes and coaches, funding to universities and new facilities. What a difference it’s made.

    The one good thing to come out of John Major’s government.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 775
    A double review:

    --- I have read Engine Summer (1979) by John Crowley.

    Engine Summer takes place at some indeterminate time (1) after the collapse of what we would recognise as civilisation. The cause of the collapse is also not clearly explained, and there may have been many contributing factors.
    The narrator is a young boy, becoming a man, called Rush that Speaks. He is telling the story of his life and his society to some unidentified observer. Rush speaks in a recognisable but distant form of English, with slang, grammatical structures and assumptions about knowledge and life that are very different to ours (2). It is a tribute to Crowley's ability as a writer that this is in no way a barrier to the reader's understanding. Rush leaves his home and journeys through the various societies of post-apocalytpic America (that much geography at least is fixable) in search of his lover, learning and revealing more about the world and its history.
    It is beautifully written, as I would expect from Crowley, and as I would also expect, requires the reader to be alert and actively participating in working out how the pieces fit together. The ending is perfectly logical and consequential to what we have picked up as we read, and yet is utterly startling: Crowley manages to make it satisfyingly final while opening up vistas of what might follow, and finds heartbreaking tragedy and eucatastrophic happy endings in the same resolutions. Masterful story telling.
    There are some parallels with McCarthy's The Road, in that our world is never coming back - the events that lead to this world are irreversible. But in many ways I would see this as the anti-Road. It make be a different world, where even humanity means something quite different, but it is a world with hope, and many different hopes. Absolutely recommended.

    (1) Some internal evidence in the text would point to the time since the collapse being on the order of decades; other evidence would point to it being on the order of millennia. Crowley never lets the reader have it easy.
    (2) I am intrigued by the parallels with Russell Hoban's Riddley Walker, which also is written in a post-apocalyptic mutated English. Riddley Walker came out within a year of Engine Summer, but must have been been written or at least started before he could have seen the latter. I'm unaware of any other book which takes such a radical approach to language - except for the horrible ripoff in Cloud Atlas, naturally.

  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 775
    --- I have read We Solve Murders (2024, not yet published) by Richard Osman.

    An advance reading copy of the first book in a new series, due out this autumn. I have only previously read one of Osman's books, the first of his Thursday Murder Club series. Like that, this reads in exactly the same way Osman speaks, with the same inflections, obsessions and digressions. He does have an easy, gentle comic turn to his writing. But. Oh, but...
    It's all just too easy and, frankly, lazy. I remain convinced that he is capable of writing a much, much better book than this. There are moments when he slightly forgets what he's writing, or maybe gets a little too involved (for his taste, not mine) in certain characters and the result is interludes of genuinely moving prose. If I was his editor, I would have sent this back to him and said, 'Cut 100 pages, and then add 100 pages of Steve talking on his dictaphone to his dead wife Debbie', because that could be the heart of a wonderful book which happens to have a crime story in it. Osman obviously knows the audience he wants, and perhaps the smallamount of genuine emotion in this is as much as that audience can take, but I know from earwigging on customers wandering around my bookshop that there are quite a number who find this as disappointing as I do.
    This differs from his TMC books in that there is much more travel - the story moves from South Carolina to St Lucia to Ireland to Dubai. I always look for a strong sense of place in my reading, and this has none. There is no serious description or local colour - South Carolina could be Southampton, St Lucia could be St Andrews, for all we learn about the actual places.
    Having read Thursday Murder Club, I wouldn't have bothered reading this if it had been a question of buying a copy. Having read this, I wouldn't bother buying or reading any more of his books.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,040

    IanB2 said:

    For just a little while, the UK is above the US in the Olympic medal table

    Not the way the Americans calculate it!
    Well, I suspect they've got a calculation system which puts them above everyone. And if Trump gets in they certainly will have.
  • dixiedean said:

    GP services really have collapsed round here. Put in an Online request yesterday (they've abandoned phone requests altogether) for an urgent issue which needs new medication prescribed, got a text offering a telephone appointment on August 20th!
    By contrast. Phoned 111. Answered immediately. Phone call from clinician within the hour.

    Not good at all. In this small town I get at least a phone consultation within a couple of days, and generally the same day. Prescriptions take a bit longer than I think they ought to, thought, but I have a feeling there's a double checking system somewhere that fouls things up.
    Bitter complaint, though, in the similar sized community a couple of miles away, with a similar sized GP practice.

    I think a lot depends on management ability in the practice. Being a 'good' GP doesn't automatically mean one is a good manager.
    Like schools, GP practices operate like small businesses and a bully strong minded character at the top (practice manager) can poison the whole practice.

    Town Councils and their Town Clerks can have similar problems.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,159
    edited August 3
    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Another morning, another double take as I cast my eye down the medal table, down down down, and finally there is Germany with 2 gold medals. A gold below Romania.

    (By the way the Romanian national anthem is very good).

    Have Germany just narrowly missed out on lots of golds, like the USA? No, they have 7 medals in total.

    Meanwhile France, GB and Italy, the other major European economies, have 11, 10 and 5 golds each.

    What has happened? Has Germany just stopped investing in Olympic sports? They used to win the Olympics. More than that, West Germany and East Germany used to battle it out at the top of the board.

    And the other one is Poland. Emerging giant of the EU, 4 medals, zero golds.

    But seriously what’s up with Germany? Perhaps they scrape it back in the track and field events.
    Germany has been in decline at the Olympics for over three decades.

    A large part of it is because of the relative change of funding compared to other countries - for example the GB team were effectively amateurs up until the embarrassment of 1996.

    East Germany was notorious for the state support (much of it illegal) of its athletes.
    Indeed, until the lottery funding came along the majority of the athletes and coaches were part-time amateurs. Now there’s huge programmes of professional athletes and coaches, funding to universities and new facilities. What a difference it’s made.

    The one good thing to come out of John Major’s government.
    Yeah I think it will take an Olympics to be hosted in Germany before they put serious funding into it. I wouldn't say the German team is mostly amateur, they aren't, but they do run on a budget a third of the size of ours, France or Australia.

    Alarm bells must be ringing back in the US right now, they've got 4 years to unearth top level swimming talent for both sexes or they could suffer the embarrassment of finishing second behind China at their home games.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314

    IanB2 said:

    For just a little while, the UK is above the US in the Olympic medal table

    Not the way the Americans calculate it!
    Well, I suspect they've got a calculation system which puts them above everyone. And if Trump gets in they certainly will have.
    The official medal table is based on number of gold medals won, the American media base it on total number of medals won if that gives a higher place to the American team. They’ve been doing it for decades, to the point that it’s now a running joke.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,084
    IanB2 said:

    For just a little while, the UK is above the US in the Olympic medal table

    The Americans order the table by total number of medals, by which count they are on top. Hmm. I must add this to both sides believing we have a trade surplus.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Very true ...

    I keep thinking how 3 little girls were killed & more were hurt & traumatised, & instead of talking about their precious lives, we are being forced to focus on violent entitled white men burning cars & towns, who don’t give a shit about women’s & girls’ safety.

    https://x.com/sianushka/status/1819617021321003401

    But the point is, rioting WORKS, in certain circumstances. If it is seen as the voice of people who have otherwise no democratic leverage

    I’m sadly old enough to remember the 80s riots in Brixton and Toxteth etc. They were roundly condemned but the Tory government - sensibly, to my mind - realised there was some justification in the discontent even if the violence was reprehensible and wrong

    So they sent in Michael Heseltine and they made efforts to improve inner city lives. Probably a wise move?

    Ditto the poll tax riots. Ugly ugly violence but the poll tax was ditched

    A sensible Labour government should say These riots are horrible and they must stop, but they should also be like the Tories in the 80s, and hear the cry of pain within: mass immigration has to come down drastically, integration must be much more rigorous, the boats must be stopped

    I hope they do that. I bet they won’t. Much easier to write it all off as a bunch of thugs and so it will happen again and again, because they literally don’t have a clue what to do about these issues and emotionally don’t want to tackle them

    If there was any evidence that the far-right represented an identifiable community you might have point. We had a general election a month ago.

    We had a referendum - with a much greater turnout than the GE - indeed the biggest mandate in British history - and the Leave side won. And common consent - not least amongst the left - is that the Leave side won because they offered much stricter rules on immigration. That’s what the people wanted, it’s what they said they wanted. Take Back Control

    What did the Tories do? (And I absolutely blame the Tories here). They tripled immigration and lost control of the channel

    So how do people vote now if they want much less immigration? You can’t blame millions for thinking: “i won’t bother voting at all. They never listen”

    Hence the sub 60% turnout at the last election
    You seem obsessed with rubber boats and immigrants. As a self proclaimed hedonist how do they affect you in any way at all?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,272
    edited August 3
    dixiedean said:

    GP services really have collapsed round here. Put in an Online request yesterday (they've abandoned phone requests altogether) for an urgent issue which needs new medication prescribed, got a text offering a telephone appointment on August 20th!
    By contrast. Phoned 111. Answered immediately. Phone call from clinician within the hour.

    And bingo. Emergency GP appointment at the hospital at 1:30 on a Saturday afternoon. Received text from my GP about phone appointment in nearly three weeks time just an hour and five minutes ago.
    As always. The pushy and informed get. The rest suffer in silence.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,969

    Labour - it's not going well is it ?

    Starmargeddon is upon us! :D
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,572
    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    TimS said:

    Another morning, another double take as I cast my eye down the medal table, down down down, and finally there is Germany with 2 gold medals. A gold below Romania.

    (By the way the Romanian national anthem is very good).


    A revolutionary song from 1848, all about barbaric tyrants, sung during the overthrow of Ceaucescu and adopted as the new anthem not long after.
    So revolutionary songs are clearly the best national anthems.

    The Marseillaise, the Soviet anthem, the Romanian. What others?
    A quick Google adds Algeria (1960s v France), Cuba (1860s v Spain), Germany (1848), Phillipines (1890s v Spain), Vietnam (1940s/50s v France), Ireland (early 1900s v UK), Indonesia (1920s v Netherlands) and half of South Africa (two songs merged, one of which was anti-apartheid)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    What are the nine most joyous words in the English language?

    “The bill has all been taken care of, Sir”

    Almost four decades of doing this job and that sentence still gives me a ludicrous, embarrassing, childish and profound buzz. Like another tiny but crucial victory over the demonic forces of the universe
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,572

    IanB2 said:

    For just a little while, the UK is above the US in the Olympic medal table

    The Americans order the table by total number of medals, by which count they are on top. Hmm. I must add this to both sides believing we have a trade surplus.
    No country that uses mdy can be trusted to put anything in the right order.

    Surely some sort of weighting system would make the most sense?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,040

    dixiedean said:

    GP services really have collapsed round here. Put in an Online request yesterday (they've abandoned phone requests altogether) for an urgent issue which needs new medication prescribed, got a text offering a telephone appointment on August 20th!
    By contrast. Phoned 111. Answered immediately. Phone call from clinician within the hour.

    Not good at all. In this small town I get at least a phone consultation within a couple of days, and generally the same day. Prescriptions take a bit longer than I think they ought to, thought, but I have a feeling there's a double checking system somewhere that fouls things up.
    Bitter complaint, though, in the similar sized community a couple of miles away, with a similar sized GP practice.

    I think a lot depends on management ability in the practice. Being a 'good' GP doesn't automatically mean one is a good manager.
    Like schools, GP practices operate like small businesses and a bully strong minded character at the top (practice manager) can poison the whole practice.

    Town Councils and their Town Clerks can have similar problems.
    In my experience, a GP practice which is sensible enough to employ a good practice manager, and treat them as at least an equal in management is generally better than one where the partners assume they are 'wise in all things'.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,358


    @mikeysmith

    Can't even set fire to a citizen's advice bureau and attack a random Uber driver without being called far-right nowadays. Starmer's Britain.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,605
    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Awful scenes yesterday in Sunderland, and my friend in Newcastle has been told by their friend at the RVI that they are on alert for a potential riot in Newcastle today.

    Time that we crack down on these micro-brain “patriots”. We can’t jail them as they are full, and they are a menace to society. So why not deport them to Rwanda? We already spent the money on that, let’s get best value for the taxpayer

    These riots could now become a feature not a bug

    Why? Because the underlying cause - mass immigration and unchecked boat people - is not going away. It might easily get worse. There will be another Southport, another Manchester arena - tragically. And next time the explosion will be instant

    Starmer doesn’t appear to remotely understand this. He thinks it’s a passing issue of civil disorder
    It’s not just mass migration it is economic decline in these areas while growth, prosperity and spending is lavished on the south and the perception of two tier policing as well.

    Violent BLM protests were reported as ‘mostly peaceful’

    This allows the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard.
    Can I suggest some things which allow the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard? People going on about Muslims supposedly being problematic in reaction to a tragic event that involved 0 Muslims; or going on about "legitimate questions" in the face of violent riots; or saying we need to have conversation about immigration as if we haven't been having a conversation about immigration over and over for at least a decade; or whatabout-ing the violence instead of condemning it.

    I propose the best way to stop the likes of Tommy Robinson being heard is for everyone to condemn Robinson and the thugs who chant his name.
    We’ve had little else other than a conversation about immigration since about 2005.

    The Tories banged on about it endlessly while numbers went up. If people want to reduce immigration then “having a conversation about it” doesn’t appear to be particularly effective.
    Both Tories and labour raged about it being too high and going up while actively encouraging it to do so. There’s been no conversation just patronising words from politicians saying one thing and doing another.
  • Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Great atmosphere at these Olympics.

    For many of us the Track and Field is the highlight of the Olympics, and the 100m final tomorrow night the biggest event of the whole Games.

    Women’s 100m final tonight, where we could see one of the most controversial world records ever set finally consigned to history after 36 years.
    Track and field is always the big ticket item at the Olympics. By far the biggest crowds, and the stadium is ther centrepiece of the event.

    I have to say, though, the joy of the Olympics for me is the sports you don't really see at other times and suddenly intensely enjoy for a few days. Athletics (and other things like tennis and football) are ones where there are major events every year.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866

    Off topic with unseemly haste, the Dems appear to have quickly blocked off another line of attack by suspending the plea deal for the 9/11 planners. They really seem to have got their shit together.

    Serious Q:

    How can Dems suspend a plea deal? In the US system aiui that is a matter for the prosecutors, not a political decision.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Awful scenes yesterday in Sunderland, and my friend in Newcastle has been told by their friend at the RVI that they are on alert for a potential riot in Newcastle today.

    Time that we crack down on these micro-brain “patriots”. We can’t jail them as they are full, and they are a menace to society. So why not deport them to Rwanda? We already spent the money on that, let’s get best value for the taxpayer

    These riots could now become a feature not a bug

    Why? Because the underlying cause - mass immigration and unchecked boat people - is not going away. It might easily get worse. There will be another Southport, another Manchester arena - tragically. And next time the explosion will be instant

    Starmer doesn’t appear to remotely understand this. He thinks it’s a passing issue of civil disorder
    It’s not just mass migration it is economic decline in these areas while growth, prosperity and spending is lavished on the south and the perception of two tier policing as well.

    Violent BLM protests were reported as ‘mostly peaceful’

    This allows the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard.
    Can I suggest some things which allow the likes of Tommy Robinson to be heard? People going on about Muslims supposedly being problematic in reaction to a tragic event that involved 0 Muslims; or going on about "legitimate questions" in the face of violent riots; or saying we need to have conversation about immigration as if we haven't been having a conversation about immigration over and over for at least a decade; or whatabout-ing the violence instead of condemning it.

    I propose the best way to stop the likes of Tommy Robinson being heard is for everyone to condemn Robinson and the thugs who chant his name.
    We’ve had little else other than a conversation about immigration since about 2005.

    The Tories banged on about it endlessly while numbers went up. If people want to reduce immigration then “having a conversation about it” doesn’t appear to be particularly effective.
    Both Tories and labour raged about it being too high and going up while actively encouraging it to do so. There’s been no conversation just patronising words from politicians saying one thing and doing another.
    What would a conversation look like, in your view?
  • dixiedean said:

    GP services really have collapsed round here. Put in an Online request yesterday (they've abandoned phone requests altogether) for an urgent issue which needs new medication prescribed, got a text offering a telephone appointment on August 20th!
    By contrast. Phoned 111. Answered immediately. Phone call from clinician within the hour.

    Not good at all. In this small town I get at least a phone consultation within a couple of days, and generally the same day. Prescriptions take a bit longer than I think they ought to, thought, but I have a feeling there's a double checking system somewhere that fouls things up.
    Bitter complaint, though, in the similar sized community a couple of miles away, with a similar sized GP practice.

    I think a lot depends on management ability in the practice. Being a 'good' GP doesn't automatically mean one is a good manager.
    Like schools, GP practices operate like small businesses and a bully strong minded character at the top (practice manager) can poison the whole practice.

    Town Councils and their Town Clerks can have similar problems.
    In my experience, a GP practice which is sensible enough to employ a good practice manager, and treat them as at least an equal in management is generally better than one where the partners assume they are 'wise in all things'.
    The problem seems to be that if you get a domineering practice manager, there seems to be very little that can be done (until if and when they eventually go too far and get themselves suspended for gross misconduct). Otherwise you are stuck with them.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,550

    ...

    Much as despise the slimy git, Jenrick sounded very confident and facilely plausible on R4 this am.

    I think he's the Tories' best bet. He means what he says. That gives him a huge advantage over the likes of Cleverley and poor old Tom Tugendhat.

    I don't believe Jenrick "means what he says". He plays to his audience. Now the argument on here is that is what Starmer did to become LOTO, and that maybe true. Although Starmer jettisoned the extremists. I doubt Jenrick will. Taking a cue from the "we want our country back" brigade throwing rocks in Sunderland he will go full on Make England Great Again.

    That's the point. Jenrick won't jettison the extremists. He will do what he says.

    How will we know ? Given Labour label anyone conservative as "far right" its unknowable. Is David Cameron far right ?

    David Cameron would have condemned these riots unequivocally. No ifs, no buts. As Tim Montgomerie pointed out, Margaret Thatcher would have done so too.

    well yes, but given the lack of moderation in how you describe the right everyone in your book is far right. Its one of the weaknesses of political polemic.

    Somehow we have lost the bulk of right wing voters who are just conservative. Everyone is an extremist and of the worst kind.

    I wouldn't describe you as an extremist, just a saloon bar contrarian.

    Oh Im definitely conservative, 1ts just there hasnt been a conservative party for quite some time. Big State, big spend internationalism is Labour, not Conservative

    Well, Mrs Thatcher was the driving force for the creation of the Single Market - but I know where you are coming from. I don't agree with it but I see it as an entirely respectable and understandable political viewpoint. What I find very worrying about modern Conservatism is all this nonsense about the deep state and the blob and the relentless attacks on our institutions and the rule of law. Margaret Thatcher never entertained any of that nonsense.

    The Single Market was probably her greatest achievement. I cant believe the bozos in government enthusiastically left it. The Thatcherisation of a continent. You still get lots of pork barrel stuff in the EU but its pretty hard for a government to feather its domestic and state providers for public services.
    Perhaps Europe's economic stagnation is the result of this?
    You think? How would that be? For a Conservative to see Europe's stagnation as a consequence of competitive free trade would throw a lot of what would be traditional conservatism under the bus (with or without a number on its side).
    What’s your explanation for why Europe has failed to build any serious rivals to Google et al during the period since the creation of the single market?
    Nobody else has either? Silicon Valley has a very dense concentration of tech talent and venture capital money that means if you want to build a fast-growing tech company you normally want to do it there. They built that network effect with monster defence spending and lots of immigration. Europe does a lot wrong but realistically there's nothing they could have done right that would have overcome the Silicon Valley network effect.

    Germany is definitely doing a lot wrong that's dampening its tech sector but a lot of that is just shuffling things elsewhere in the EU that's less overregulated, eg Berlin companies are moving to Lisbon. The UK could have been a player too despite Brexit but it seems like they mainly want to make jam and stuff?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,084
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Another morning, another double take as I cast my eye down the medal table, down down down, and finally there is Germany with 2 gold medals. A gold below Romania.

    (By the way the Romanian national anthem is very good).

    Have Germany just narrowly missed out on lots of golds, like the USA? No, they have 7 medals in total.

    Meanwhile France, GB and Italy, the other major European economies, have 11, 10 and 5 golds each.

    What has happened? Has Germany just stopped investing in Olympic sports? They used to win the Olympics. More than that, West Germany and East Germany used to battle it out at the top of the board.

    And the other one is Poland. Emerging giant of the EU, 4 medals, zero golds.

    But seriously what’s up with Germany? Perhaps they scrape it back in the track and field events.
    Germany has been in decline at the Olympics for over three decades.

    A large part of it is because of the relative change of funding compared to other countries - for example the GB team were effectively amateurs up until the embarrassment of 1996.

    East Germany was notorious for the state support (much of it illegal) of its athletes.
    Indeed, until the lottery funding came along the majority of the athletes and coaches were part-time amateurs. Now there’s huge programmes of professional athletes and coaches, funding to universities and new facilities. What a difference it’s made.

    The one good thing to come out of John Major’s government.
    Yeah I think it will take an Olympics to be hosted in Germany before they put serious funding into it. I wouldn't say the German team is mostly amateur, they aren't, but they do run on a budget a third of the size of ours, France or Australia.

    Alarm bells must be ringing back in the US right now, they've got 4 years to unearth top level swimming talent for both sexes or they could suffer the embarrassment of finishing second behind China at their home games.
    What Britain, and before them Australia and now France, have shown is that it is better to inject cash than steroids to win hatfuls of medals.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,272

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Great atmosphere at these Olympics.

    For many of us the Track and Field is the highlight of the Olympics, and the 100m final tomorrow night the biggest event of the whole Games.

    Women’s 100m final tonight, where we could see one of the most controversial world records ever set finally consigned to history after 36 years.
    Track and field is always the big ticket item at the Olympics. By far the biggest crowds, and the stadium is ther centrepiece of the event.

    I have to say, though, the joy of the Olympics for me is the sports you don't really see at other times and suddenly intensely enjoy for a few days. Athletics (and other things like tennis and football) are ones where there are major events every year.
    Tbf. The other sports do have major events every year. They just aren't covered in this country.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,572

    IanB2 said:

    For just a little while, the UK is above the US in the Olympic medal table

    The Americans order the table by total number of medals, by which count they are on top. Hmm. I must add this to both sides believing we have a trade surplus.
    As Guy Verhofstadt regularly tweets, the EU is winning the medals table.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    Dura_Ace said:

    ..

    Scott_xP said:

    I don't doubt events on Monday will make Labour more worried about the impact of the small boats issue. Will they make any policy change? Not sure.

    How does torching a CAB help Stop the Boats?

    It doesn't.

    If Labour change any policies to appease these racists fukwits then democracy is dead.
    Do you not know the days of the week? Monday was the day three girls were stabbed to death and many more could have been by the son of Rwandan migrants. You're a fool if you don't think that won't influence the public at all.
    The narrative was created on Twitter by a right wing agent provocateur. A woman who has form for fake news. Farage, either by cockup or conspiracy ran with that narrative.

    Loads of people calling LBC later this week were sticking with the alleged murderer being a Syrian (Muslim) Refugee. The notion that a lie gets half way around the world before the truth has got it's boots on is a truism.
    It wouldn't surprise me if LBC deliberately put those people through. But again do we have any hard data on how many believed the Syrian refugee story?

    Anyway the rioters are thugs from what I can see. If people really want to draw attention to migration problems they can glue themselves to the road which I'd suggest would be more effective.
    The mindless violence and boorishness of the Yaxley Lennon brigade is the biggest asset their opponents have.
    Fckn hell, sort your quotes out!
    Those are my words. Since sorted that quoting clusterfuck in any case before the six minute hammer dropped.
    Post election come down, innit? Blue vermin sent packing and we now contemplate the new reality.

    Hopefully we'll have a really good, blood drenched and flame wreathed riot season. Then the tory conference should be a laugh, then we're into the US Presidential carnage, then Strictly then it's the Holidays.
    Got a bet on Gove doing Strictly before 2026.

    He'd f-ing better.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,159

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Another morning, another double take as I cast my eye down the medal table, down down down, and finally there is Germany with 2 gold medals. A gold below Romania.

    (By the way the Romanian national anthem is very good).

    Have Germany just narrowly missed out on lots of golds, like the USA? No, they have 7 medals in total.

    Meanwhile France, GB and Italy, the other major European economies, have 11, 10 and 5 golds each.

    What has happened? Has Germany just stopped investing in Olympic sports? They used to win the Olympics. More than that, West Germany and East Germany used to battle it out at the top of the board.

    And the other one is Poland. Emerging giant of the EU, 4 medals, zero golds.

    But seriously what’s up with Germany? Perhaps they scrape it back in the track and field events.
    Germany has been in decline at the Olympics for over three decades.

    A large part of it is because of the relative change of funding compared to other countries - for example the GB team were effectively amateurs up until the embarrassment of 1996.

    East Germany was notorious for the state support (much of it illegal) of its athletes.
    Indeed, until the lottery funding came along the majority of the athletes and coaches were part-time amateurs. Now there’s huge programmes of professional athletes and coaches, funding to universities and new facilities. What a difference it’s made.

    The one good thing to come out of John Major’s government.
    Yeah I think it will take an Olympics to be hosted in Germany before they put serious funding into it. I wouldn't say the German team is mostly amateur, they aren't, but they do run on a budget a third of the size of ours, France or Australia.

    Alarm bells must be ringing back in the US right now, they've got 4 years to unearth top level swimming talent for both sexes or they could suffer the embarrassment of finishing second behind China at their home games.
    What Britain, and before them Australia and now France, have shown is that it is better to inject cash than steroids to win hatfuls of medals.
    The jury is still out on France and their miracle swimmer IMO but yes, on the whole I'd agree with that.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    For just a little while, the UK is above the US in the Olympic medal table

    The Americans order the table by total number of medals, by which count they are on top. Hmm. I must add this to both sides believing we have a trade surplus.
    As Guy Verhofstadt regularly tweets, the EU is winning the medals table.
    Surely the Commonwealth is winning the medal table? ;-)
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,605
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Awful scenes yesterday in Sunderland, and my friend in Newcastle has been told by their friend at the RVI that they are on alert for a potential riot in Newcastle today.

    Time that we crack down on these micro-brain “patriots”. We can’t jail them as they are full, and they are a menace to society. So why not deport them to Rwanda? We already spent the money on that, let’s get best value for the taxpayer

    These riots could now become a feature not a bug

    Why? Because the underlying cause - mass immigration and unchecked boat people - is not going away. It might easily get worse. There will be another Southport, another Manchester arena - tragically. And next time the explosion will be instant

    Starmer doesn’t appear to remotely understand this. He thinks it’s a passing issue of civil disorder
    Part of the problem is that Starmer has zero credibility and his actions have made things worse not better

    Solemn press conferences promising to metaphorically cosh them all is fine if you react that way to any riot. But not when you only do it with rioters whos root political cause you despise as oppose to sympathise with.

    7th June 2020.

    “27 police officers injured during largely peaceful anti-racism protests in London”

    https://x.com/bbcnews/status/1269574979680702470

    [Wikipedia] "In London, BLM protesters clashed with police. A protester was seen climbing onto The Cenotaph war memorial and attempted to set the Union Jack on fire.[102] The words "was a racist" were painted onto a statue of Sir Winston Churchill."

    "A crowd of at least 5,000 people marched from Bristol's College Green to The Centre where they tore down the statue, dragged and dumped it into Bristol Harbour.[106][107] The empty plinth was used as a stage for protesters"

    9th June 2020.

    @keirstarmer We kneel with all those opposing anti-Black racism. #BlackLivesMatter

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1270374388488167428.

    Note the word "All"







    Starmer really winds you up doesn't he?
    Its not me you need to worry about. I'm happy to sit here in rural Bedfordshire on a glorious summer day and watch while he implodes under his own contradictions and look forward to the next election, relishing watching their most sacred shibboleths like the Climate Change act slowly screwing them.

    The millions who can't get a roof over their heads except at eyewatering prices due to competition from immigrants and unable to get anything other than low paid wprk due to plentiful immigrants meaning employers can get away with low wages.

    They are getting VERY wound up and there are rather a lot of them.

    I actually feel sorry for the immigrants who are being exploited by the powers that be for cheap labour and political gain.


    Vanilla effed up. Response here.

    The importation of cheap migrants to do jobs in care homes due to low pay here when they should simply increase the hourly rate is a scandal. These are not skilled professionals who add to the U.K. who are the migrants we really want and need. Coming in to wipe pensioners bums for minimum wage. The real problem is they bring with them children who need educating, at a cost, and other economically inactive dependents who become a net burden on society. All to save a quid or two an hour.

    This guy brought his wife and four kids expecting care home work.

    https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-100-migrants-face-being-in-uk-illegally-as-care-agency-is-stripped-of-ability-to-endorse-visas-13178490
    How is a family of six supposed to exist on one minimum wage salary? It does appear that too many of these agencies are an immigration scam.

    The way to recruit care workers at scale is remarkably easy. Set up an office close to the British embassy in Manila. Take newly-qualified nurses, of whom there are hundreds of thousands in the Philippines, bring them over as care workers and have them work towards registered nursing qualifications in the UK.
    My wife helped her NHS trust recruit Filipino nurses. They were really good.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,040

    dixiedean said:

    GP services really have collapsed round here. Put in an Online request yesterday (they've abandoned phone requests altogether) for an urgent issue which needs new medication prescribed, got a text offering a telephone appointment on August 20th!
    By contrast. Phoned 111. Answered immediately. Phone call from clinician within the hour.

    Not good at all. In this small town I get at least a phone consultation within a couple of days, and generally the same day. Prescriptions take a bit longer than I think they ought to, thought, but I have a feeling there's a double checking system somewhere that fouls things up.
    Bitter complaint, though, in the similar sized community a couple of miles away, with a similar sized GP practice.

    I think a lot depends on management ability in the practice. Being a 'good' GP doesn't automatically mean one is a good manager.
    Like schools, GP practices operate like small businesses and a bully strong minded character at the top (practice manager) can poison the whole practice.

    Town Councils and their Town Clerks can have similar problems.
    In my experience, a GP practice which is sensible enough to employ a good practice manager, and treat them as at least an equal in management is generally better than one where the partners assume they are 'wise in all things'.
    The problem seems to be that if you get a domineering practice manager, there seems to be very little that can be done (until if and when they eventually go too far and get themselves suspended for gross misconduct). Otherwise you are stuck with them.
    It needs a balance between the professional manager and the lead GP. We're actually in the very early stages of a radical re-organisation of GP practices from 'professional practices' to 'small businesses', and indeed chains. Rather like what has happened to pharmacies, to vets and to opticians.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,503
    edited August 3
    MattW said:

    Off topic with unseemly haste, the Dems appear to have quickly blocked off another line of attack by suspending the plea deal for the 9/11 planners. They really seem to have got their shit together.

    Serious Q:

    How can Dems suspend a plea deal? In the US system aiui that is a matter for the prosecutors, not a political decision.
    As far as I can see the sec of defense(sic) Lloyd Austin has overruled the deal saying the final decision rests with him. Of course you (and he) can suggest this is definitely not a political decision..
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,084

    dixiedean said:

    GP services really have collapsed round here. Put in an Online request yesterday (they've abandoned phone requests altogether) for an urgent issue which needs new medication prescribed, got a text offering a telephone appointment on August 20th!
    By contrast. Phoned 111. Answered immediately. Phone call from clinician within the hour.

    Not good at all. In this small town I get at least a phone consultation within a couple of days, and generally the same day. Prescriptions take a bit longer than I think they ought to, thought, but I have a feeling there's a double checking system somewhere that fouls things up.
    Bitter complaint, though, in the similar sized community a couple of miles away, with a similar sized GP practice.

    I think a lot depends on management ability in the practice. Being a 'good' GP doesn't automatically mean one is a good manager.
    Like schools, GP practices operate like small businesses and a bully strong minded character at the top (practice manager) can poison the whole practice.

    Town Councils and their Town Clerks can have similar problems.
    In my experience, a GP practice which is sensible enough to employ a good practice manager, and treat them as at least an equal in management is generally better than one where the partners assume they are 'wise in all things'.
    The problem seems to be that if you get a domineering practice manager, there seems to be very little that can be done (until if and when they eventually go too far and get themselves suspended for gross misconduct). Otherwise you are stuck with them.
    Actually I'm not sure that is always the problem. My GP practice manager is a sucker for any software sales call, so the access system for appointments, prescriptions and suchlike changes frequently and without fully removing the previous ones.

    So my guess is that what patients complain about is not imposed by doctors or managers but by limitations of whatever program they are running. Want to book an appointment after 12 or repeat prescription a month ahead? Computer says no!
  • dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Great atmosphere at these Olympics.

    For many of us the Track and Field is the highlight of the Olympics, and the 100m final tomorrow night the biggest event of the whole Games.

    Women’s 100m final tonight, where we could see one of the most controversial world records ever set finally consigned to history after 36 years.
    Track and field is always the big ticket item at the Olympics. By far the biggest crowds, and the stadium is ther centrepiece of the event.

    I have to say, though, the joy of the Olympics for me is the sports you don't really see at other times and suddenly intensely enjoy for a few days. Athletics (and other things like tennis and football) are ones where there are major events every year.
    Tbf. The other sports do have major events every year. They just aren't covered in this country.
    True - should have said we don't see major events every year. Although I don't think the UK is unique in giving limited coverage to the modern pentathlon between Olympics.

    Bring back Grandstand!
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,539
    https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1819421471045046597

    Remarkable video of a woman who's son was kidnapped and murdered by a UNRWA employee heckling a speech by Phillipe Lazzarri the head of UNRWA. I wonder if he found time to speak with her afterwards?
  • I see Vladimir is now a strategic partner helping to keep our nuclear subs running smoothly.

    "Britain’s nuclear submarine engineers use software that was designed in Russia and Belarus, in contravention of Ministry of Defence rules, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The software should have been created by UK-based staff with security clearance, but its design was partially outsourced to developers in Siberia and Minsk, the capital of Belarus....."

    "The inquiry discovered that the firm that outsourced the work – on a staff intranet for nuclear submarine engineers – to Russia and Belarus initially kept it secret and discussed whether it could disguise where the workers were based by giving them fake names of dead British people...."

    "used developers based in Belarus – Russia’s closest ally – one of whom was actually working from home in Tomsk, Siberia,

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/02/britains-nuclear-submarine-software-designed-russia-belarus/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Great atmosphere at these Olympics.

    For many of us the Track and Field is the highlight of the Olympics, and the 100m final tomorrow night the biggest event of the whole Games.

    Women’s 100m final tonight, where we could see one of the most controversial world records ever set finally consigned to history after 36 years.
    Track and field is always the big ticket item at the Olympics. By far the biggest crowds, and the stadium is ther centrepiece of the event.

    I have to say, though, the joy of the Olympics for me is the sports you don't really see at other times and suddenly intensely enjoy for a few days. Athletics (and other things like tennis and football) are ones where there are major events every year.
    Yes it’s always good to see the minor sports, and the people we’ve never heard of who trained hard for years to make it to the Games.

    I really dislike the sports for whom the Olympics is just another event for the pros - tennis, football, basketball etc. If we are going to have these sports at the Olympics, they should be restricted to ‘amateur’ players, in the same way as boxing.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,272

    dixiedean said:

    GP services really have collapsed round here. Put in an Online request yesterday (they've abandoned phone requests altogether) for an urgent issue which needs new medication prescribed, got a text offering a telephone appointment on August 20th!
    By contrast. Phoned 111. Answered immediately. Phone call from clinician within the hour.

    Not good at all. In this small town I get at least a phone consultation within a couple of days, and generally the same day. Prescriptions take a bit longer than I think they ought to, thought, but I have a feeling there's a double checking system somewhere that fouls things up.
    Bitter complaint, though, in the similar sized community a couple of miles away, with a similar sized GP practice.

    I think a lot depends on management ability in the practice. Being a 'good' GP doesn't automatically mean one is a good manager.
    Like schools, GP practices operate like small businesses and a bully strong minded character at the top (practice manager) can poison the whole practice.

    Town Councils and their Town Clerks can have similar problems.
    In my experience, a GP practice which is sensible enough to employ a good practice manager, and treat them as at least an equal in management is generally better than one where the partners assume they are 'wise in all things'.
    The problem seems to be that if you get a domineering practice manager, there seems to be very little that can be done (until if and when they eventually go too far and get themselves suspended for gross misconduct). Otherwise you are stuck with them.
    It needs a balance between the professional manager and the lead GP. We're actually in the very early stages of a radical re-organisation of GP practices from 'professional practices' to 'small businesses', and indeed chains. Rather like what has happened to pharmacies, to vets and to opticians.
    If my GP practice becoming part of a chain, as it did recently, is any guide, it won't be good.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,258
    Leon said:

    What are the nine most joyous words in the English language?

    “The bill has all been taken care of, Sir”

    Almost four decades of doing this job and that sentence still gives me a ludicrous, embarrassing, childish and profound buzz. Like another tiny but crucial victory over the demonic forces of the universe

    More thrilling than "proud white patriots are rioting in our forgotten towns"?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796
    moonshine said:

    Roger said:

    The Tories need someone white and racist which cuts their choice down to one.

    It must be strange to inhabit the inside of your head. Not that it’s particularly interesting, but have a flick back through the skin colour of Tory leaders and Chancellors in the last decade.
    No use chasing the votes of the Tommy Robinson fan club with leaders who they would want deported. Sunak has spent his two years pouring poison on immigrants not realising that the morons he's talking to can't see a difference between them and him.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,040

    dixiedean said:

    GP services really have collapsed round here. Put in an Online request yesterday (they've abandoned phone requests altogether) for an urgent issue which needs new medication prescribed, got a text offering a telephone appointment on August 20th!
    By contrast. Phoned 111. Answered immediately. Phone call from clinician within the hour.

    Not good at all. In this small town I get at least a phone consultation within a couple of days, and generally the same day. Prescriptions take a bit longer than I think they ought to, thought, but I have a feeling there's a double checking system somewhere that fouls things up.
    Bitter complaint, though, in the similar sized community a couple of miles away, with a similar sized GP practice.

    I think a lot depends on management ability in the practice. Being a 'good' GP doesn't automatically mean one is a good manager.
    Like schools, GP practices operate like small businesses and a bully strong minded character at the top (practice manager) can poison the whole practice.

    Town Councils and their Town Clerks can have similar problems.
    In my experience, a GP practice which is sensible enough to employ a good practice manager, and treat them as at least an equal in management is generally better than one where the partners assume they are 'wise in all things'.
    The problem seems to be that if you get a domineering practice manager, there seems to be very little that can be done (until if and when they eventually go too far and get themselves suspended for gross misconduct). Otherwise you are stuck with them.
    Actually I'm not sure that is always the problem. My GP practice manager is a sucker for any software sales call, so the access system for appointments, prescriptions and suchlike changes frequently and without fully removing the previous ones.

    So my guess is that what patients complain about is not imposed by doctors or managers but by limitations of whatever program they are running. Want to book an appointment after 12 or repeat prescription a month ahead? Computer says no!
    Partly due to Lansley's, with Cameron's encouragement, re-organisation of the NHS.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,258

    Dura_Ace said:

    ..

    Scott_xP said:

    I don't doubt events on Monday will make Labour more worried about the impact of the small boats issue. Will they make any policy change? Not sure.

    How does torching a CAB help Stop the Boats?

    It doesn't.

    If Labour change any policies to appease these racists fukwits then democracy is dead.
    Do you not know the days of the week? Monday was the day three girls were stabbed to death and many more could have been by the son of Rwandan migrants. You're a fool if you don't think that won't influence the public at all.
    The narrative was created on Twitter by a right wing agent provocateur. A woman who has form for fake news. Farage, either by cockup or conspiracy ran with that narrative.

    Loads of people calling LBC later this week were sticking with the alleged murderer being a Syrian (Muslim) Refugee. The notion that a lie gets half way around the world before the truth has got it's boots on is a truism.
    It wouldn't surprise me if LBC deliberately put those people through. But again do we have any hard data on how many believed the Syrian refugee story?

    Anyway the rioters are thugs from what I can see. If people really want to draw attention to migration problems they can glue themselves to the road which I'd suggest would be more effective.
    The mindless violence and boorishness of the Yaxley Lennon brigade is the biggest asset their opponents have.
    Fckn hell, sort your quotes out!
    Those are my words. Since sorted that quoting clusterfuck in any case before the six minute hammer dropped.
    Post election come down, innit? Blue vermin sent packing and we now contemplate the new reality.

    Hopefully we'll have a really good, blood drenched and flame wreathed riot season. Then the tory conference should be a laugh, then we're into the US Presidential carnage, then Strictly then it's the Holidays.
    Got a bet on Gove doing Strictly before 2026.

    He'd f-ing better.
    What odds did you get for that?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    edited August 3

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    For just a little while, the UK is above the US in the Olympic medal table

    The Americans order the table by total number of medals, by which count they are on top. Hmm. I must add this to both sides believing we have a trade surplus.
    As Guy Verhofstadt regularly tweets, the EU is winning the medals table.
    Surely the Commonwealth is winning the medal table? ;-)
    It’s between the Commonwealth and the OECD at the moment.

    Though NATO is doing pretty well too.
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    GP services really have collapsed round here. Put in an Online request yesterday (they've abandoned phone requests altogether) for an urgent issue which needs new medication prescribed, got a text offering a telephone appointment on August 20th!
    By contrast. Phoned 111. Answered immediately. Phone call from clinician within the hour.

    Not good at all. In this small town I get at least a phone consultation within a couple of days, and generally the same day. Prescriptions take a bit longer than I think they ought to, thought, but I have a feeling there's a double checking system somewhere that fouls things up.
    Bitter complaint, though, in the similar sized community a couple of miles away, with a similar sized GP practice.

    I think a lot depends on management ability in the practice. Being a 'good' GP doesn't automatically mean one is a good manager.
    Like schools, GP practices operate like small businesses and a bully strong minded character at the top (practice manager) can poison the whole practice.

    Town Councils and their Town Clerks can have similar problems.
    In my experience, a GP practice which is sensible enough to employ a good practice manager, and treat them as at least an equal in management is generally better than one where the partners assume they are 'wise in all things'.
    The problem seems to be that if you get a domineering practice manager, there seems to be very little that can be done (until if and when they eventually go too far and get themselves suspended for gross misconduct). Otherwise you are stuck with them.
    It needs a balance between the professional manager and the lead GP. We're actually in the very early stages of a radical re-organisation of GP practices from 'professional practices' to 'small businesses', and indeed chains. Rather like what has happened to pharmacies, to vets and to opticians.
    If my GP practice becoming part of a chain, as it did recently, is any guide, it won't be good.
    See Vets and Dentists for further details.

    Suspect in 5 years private GPs will be the norm as it already is for dentists except for those unfortunate enough not to be able to pay.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,258

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Great atmosphere at these Olympics.

    For many of us the Track and Field is the highlight of the Olympics, and the 100m final tomorrow night the biggest event of the whole Games.

    Women’s 100m final tonight, where we could see one of the most controversial world records ever set finally consigned to history after 36 years.
    Track and field is always the big ticket item at the Olympics. By far the biggest crowds, and the stadium is ther centrepiece of the event.

    I have to say, though, the joy of the Olympics for me is the sports you don't really see at other times and suddenly intensely enjoy for a few days. Athletics (and other things like tennis and football) are ones where there are major events every year.
    Yes. The Olympics are special because of that. Eg for me the swimming and the gymnastics in particular.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    I like Cleverly fine, but I don't see MPs or Members thinking he is the answer at the present time.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Awful scenes yesterday in Sunderland, and my friend in Newcastle has been told by their friend at the RVI that they are on alert for a potential riot in Newcastle today.

    Time that we crack down on these micro-brain “patriots”. We can’t jail them as they are full, and they are a menace to society. So why not deport them to Rwanda? We already spent the money on that, let’s get best value for the taxpayer

    These riots could now become a feature not a bug

    Why? Because the underlying cause - mass immigration and unchecked boat people - is not going away. It might easily get worse. There will be another Southport, another Manchester arena - tragically. And next time the explosion will be instant

    Starmer doesn’t appear to remotely understand this. He thinks it’s a passing issue of civil disorder
    Part of the problem is that Starmer has zero credibility and his actions have made things worse not better

    Solemn press conferences promising to metaphorically cosh them all is fine if you react that way to any riot. But not when you only do it with rioters whos root political cause you despise as oppose to sympathise with.

    7th June 2020.

    “27 police officers injured during largely peaceful anti-racism protests in London”

    https://x.com/bbcnews/status/1269574979680702470

    [Wikipedia] "In London, BLM protesters clashed with police. A protester was seen climbing onto The Cenotaph war memorial and attempted to set the Union Jack on fire.[102] The words "was a racist" were painted onto a statue of Sir Winston Churchill."

    "A crowd of at least 5,000 people marched from Bristol's College Green to The Centre where they tore down the statue, dragged and dumped it into Bristol Harbour.[106][107] The empty plinth was used as a stage for protesters"

    9th June 2020.

    @keirstarmer We kneel with all those opposing anti-Black racism. #BlackLivesMatter

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1270374388488167428.

    Note the word "All"







    Starmer really winds you up doesn't he?
    Its not me you need to worry about. I'm happy to sit here in rural Bedfordshire on a glorious summer day and watch while he implodes under his own contradictions and look forward to the next election, relishing watching their most sacred shibboleths like the Climate Change act slowly screwing them.

    The millions who can't get a roof over their heads except at eyewatering prices due to competition from immigrants and unable to get anything other than low paid wprk due to plentiful immigrants meaning employers can get away with low wages.

    They are getting VERY wound up and there are rather a lot of them.

    I actually feel sorry for the immigrants who are being exploited by the powers that be for cheap labour and political gain.


    Vanilla effed up. Response here.

    The importation of cheap migrants to do jobs in care homes due to low pay here when they should simply increase the hourly rate is a scandal. These are not skilled professionals who add to the U.K. who are the migrants we really want and need. Coming in to wipe pensioners bums for minimum wage. The real problem is they bring with them children who need educating, at a cost, and other economically inactive dependents who become a net burden on society. All to save a quid or two an hour.

    This guy brought his wife and four kids expecting care home work.

    https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-100-migrants-face-being-in-uk-illegally-as-care-agency-is-stripped-of-ability-to-endorse-visas-13178490
    How is a family of six supposed to exist on one minimum wage salary? It does appear that too many of these agencies are an immigration scam.

    The way to recruit care workers at scale is remarkably easy. Set up an office close to the British embassy in Manila. Take newly-qualified nurses, of whom there are hundreds of thousands in the Philippines, bring them over as care workers and have them work towards registered nursing qualifications in the UK.
    My wife helped her NHS trust recruit Filipino nurses. They were really good.

    Indeed. Most of the nurses are in the sandpit are from there.

    I’ve long had a mad idea that the NHS should open a university hospital in cities like Manila and Mumbai, and use it to train locals towards UK-recognised qualifications that come with visas attached. You could fund it from the foreign aid budget, while also offering fair-priced treatment to local patients. It has to be the easiest and cheapest way of achieving a rapid expansion in training places.
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,361
    edited August 3
    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    For just a little while, the UK is above the US in the Olympic medal table

    The Americans order the table by total number of medals, by which count they are on top. Hmm. I must add this to both sides believing we have a trade surplus.
    As Guy Verhofstadt regularly tweets, the EU is winning the medals table.
    Surely the Commonwealth is winning the medal table? ;-)
    It’s between the Commonwealth and the OECD at the moment.

    Though NATO is doing pretty well too.
    Not sure where they are now, but Loughborough Uni was 9th a couple of days ago..
    #Loveborough
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,572

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    GP services really have collapsed round here. Put in an Online request yesterday (they've abandoned phone requests altogether) for an urgent issue which needs new medication prescribed, got a text offering a telephone appointment on August 20th!
    By contrast. Phoned 111. Answered immediately. Phone call from clinician within the hour.

    Not good at all. In this small town I get at least a phone consultation within a couple of days, and generally the same day. Prescriptions take a bit longer than I think they ought to, thought, but I have a feeling there's a double checking system somewhere that fouls things up.
    Bitter complaint, though, in the similar sized community a couple of miles away, with a similar sized GP practice.

    I think a lot depends on management ability in the practice. Being a 'good' GP doesn't automatically mean one is a good manager.
    Like schools, GP practices operate like small businesses and a bully strong minded character at the top (practice manager) can poison the whole practice.

    Town Councils and their Town Clerks can have similar problems.
    In my experience, a GP practice which is sensible enough to employ a good practice manager, and treat them as at least an equal in management is generally better than one where the partners assume they are 'wise in all things'.
    The problem seems to be that if you get a domineering practice manager, there seems to be very little that can be done (until if and when they eventually go too far and get themselves suspended for gross misconduct). Otherwise you are stuck with them.
    It needs a balance between the professional manager and the lead GP. We're actually in the very early stages of a radical re-organisation of GP practices from 'professional practices' to 'small businesses', and indeed chains. Rather like what has happened to pharmacies, to vets and to opticians.
    If my GP practice becoming part of a chain, as it did recently, is any guide, it won't be good.
    See Vets and Dentists for further details.

    Suspect in 5 years private GPs will be the norm as it already is for dentists except for those unfortunate enough not to be able to pay.
    Yep. My vets has sold out to a private equity firm, and now the vets have monthly quotas for things like how many scans they are expected to sell each month.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    IanB2 said:

    For just a little while, the UK is above the US in the Olympic medal table

    We seem to be pretty good at getting an even spread of medals, 10,10,9 at the moment.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314

    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Great atmosphere at these Olympics.

    For many of us the Track and Field is the highlight of the Olympics, and the 100m final tomorrow night the biggest event of the whole Games.

    Women’s 100m final tonight, where we could see one of the most controversial world records ever set finally consigned to history after 36 years.
    Track and field is always the big ticket item at the Olympics. By far the biggest crowds, and the stadium is ther centrepiece of the event.

    I have to say, though, the joy of the Olympics for me is the sports you don't really see at other times and suddenly intensely enjoy for a few days. Athletics (and other things like tennis and football) are ones where there are major events every year.
    Tbf. The other sports do have major events every year. They just aren't covered in this country.
    True - should have said we don't see major events every year. Although I don't think the UK is unique in giving limited coverage to the modern pentathlon between Olympics.

    Bring back Grandstand!
    Yes, Grandstand! The sort of thing the BBC should be doing, highlighting major events in minor sports.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,539

    I see Vladimir is now a strategic partner helping to keep our nuclear subs running smoothly.

    "Britain’s nuclear submarine engineers use software that was designed in Russia and Belarus, in contravention of Ministry of Defence rules, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The software should have been created by UK-based staff with security clearance, but its design was partially outsourced to developers in Siberia and Minsk, the capital of Belarus....."

    "The inquiry discovered that the firm that outsourced the work – on a staff intranet for nuclear submarine engineers – to Russia and Belarus initially kept it secret and discussed whether it could disguise where the workers were based by giving them fake names of dead British people...."

    "used developers based in Belarus – Russia’s closest ally – one of whom was actually working from home in Tomsk, Siberia,

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/02/britains-nuclear-submarine-software-designed-russia-belarus/

    Let's hope for some prosecutions.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,605

    ...

    Much as despise the slimy git, Jenrick sounded very confident and facilely plausible on R4 this am.

    I think he's the Tories' best bet. He means what he says. That gives him a huge advantage over the likes of Cleverley and poor old Tom Tugendhat.

    I don't believe Jenrick "means what he says". He plays to his audience. Now the argument on here is that is what Starmer did to become LOTO, and that maybe true. Although Starmer jettisoned the extremists. I doubt Jenrick will. Taking a cue from the "we want our country back" brigade throwing rocks in Sunderland he will go full on Make England Great Again.

    That's the point. Jenrick won't jettison the extremists. He will do what he says.

    How will we know ? Given Labour label anyone conservative as "far right" its unknowable. Is David Cameron far right ?

    David Cameron would have condemned these riots unequivocally. No ifs, no buts. As Tim Montgomerie pointed out, Margaret Thatcher would have done so too.

    well yes, but given the lack of moderation in how you describe the right everyone in your book is far right. Its one of the weaknesses of political polemic.

    Somehow we have lost the bulk of right wing voters who are just conservative. Everyone is an extremist and of the worst kind.

    I wouldn't describe you as an extremist, just a saloon bar contrarian.

    Oh Im definitely conservative, 1ts just there hasnt been a conservative party for quite some time. Big State, big spend internationalism is Labour, not Conservative

    Well, Mrs Thatcher was the driving force for the creation of the Single Market - but I know where you are coming from. I don't agree with it but I see it as an entirely respectable and understandable political viewpoint. What I find very worrying about modern Conservatism is all this nonsense about the deep state and the blob and the relentless attacks on our institutions and the rule of law. Margaret Thatcher never entertained any of that nonsense.

    The Single Market was probably her greatest achievement. I cant believe the bozos in government enthusiastically left it. The Thatcherisation of a continent. You still get lots of pork barrel stuff in the EU but its pretty hard for a government to feather its domestic and state providers for public services.
    Perhaps Europe's economic stagnation is the result of this?
    You think? How would that be? For a Conservative to see Europe's stagnation as a consequence of competitive free trade would throw a lot of what would be traditional conservatism under the bus (with or without a number on its side).
    What’s your explanation for why Europe has failed to build any serious rivals to Google et al during the period since the creation of the single market?
    Nobody else has either?
    China has.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Great atmosphere at these Olympics.

    For many of us the Track and Field is the highlight of the Olympics, and the 100m final tomorrow night the biggest event of the whole Games.

    Women’s 100m final tonight, where we could see one of the most controversial world records ever set finally consigned to history after 36 years.
    Track and field is always the big ticket item at the Olympics. By far the biggest crowds, and the stadium is ther centrepiece of the event.

    I have to say, though, the joy of the Olympics for me is the sports you don't really see at other times and suddenly intensely enjoy for a few days. Athletics (and other things like tennis and football) are ones where there are major events every year.
    Yes it’s always good to see the minor sports, and the people we’ve never heard of who trained hard for years to make it to the Games.

    I really dislike the sports for whom the Olympics is just another event for the pros - tennis, football, basketball etc. If we are going to have these sports at the Olympics, they should be restricted to ‘amateur’ players, in the same way as boxing.
    Agreed, it is just not the same with household name celebrities, rather than people who might be big among fans of, say, table tennis, but not anyone else.

    Athletics has a lot of major events every year, but is still niche enough that the Olympics is truly special though.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314

    I see Vladimir is now a strategic partner helping to keep our nuclear subs running smoothly.

    "Britain’s nuclear submarine engineers use software that was designed in Russia and Belarus, in contravention of Ministry of Defence rules, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The software should have been created by UK-based staff with security clearance, but its design was partially outsourced to developers in Siberia and Minsk, the capital of Belarus....."

    "The inquiry discovered that the firm that outsourced the work – on a staff intranet for nuclear submarine engineers – to Russia and Belarus initially kept it secret and discussed whether it could disguise where the workers were based by giving them fake names of dead British people...."

    "used developers based in Belarus – Russia’s closest ally – one of whom was actually working from home in Tomsk, Siberia,

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/02/britains-nuclear-submarine-software-designed-russia-belarus/

    If there’s any truth to that story, the people involved should be had up for threatening national security.

    Those in the MoD who failed to supervise their contractors should also expect to walk the plank.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,226
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Awful scenes yesterday in Sunderland, and my friend in Newcastle has been told by their friend at the RVI that they are on alert for a potential riot in Newcastle today.

    Time that we crack down on these micro-brain “patriots”. We can’t jail them as they are full, and they are a menace to society. So why not deport them to Rwanda? We already spent the money on that, let’s get best value for the taxpayer

    These riots could now become a feature not a bug

    Why? Because the underlying cause - mass immigration and unchecked boat people - is not going away. It might easily get worse. There will be another Southport, another Manchester arena - tragically. And next time the explosion will be instant

    Starmer doesn’t appear to remotely understand this. He thinks it’s a passing issue of civil disorder
    Part of the problem is that Starmer has zero credibility and his actions have made things worse not better

    Solemn press conferences promising to metaphorically cosh them all is fine if you react that way to any riot. But not when you only do it with rioters whos root political cause you despise as oppose to sympathise with.

    7th June 2020.

    “27 police officers injured during largely peaceful anti-racism protests in London”

    https://x.com/bbcnews/status/1269574979680702470

    [Wikipedia] "In London, BLM protesters clashed with police. A protester was seen climbing onto The Cenotaph war memorial and attempted to set the Union Jack on fire.[102] The words "was a racist" were painted onto a statue of Sir Winston Churchill."

    "A crowd of at least 5,000 people marched from Bristol's College Green to The Centre where they tore down the statue, dragged and dumped it into Bristol Harbour.[106][107] The empty plinth was used as a stage for protesters"

    9th June 2020.

    @keirstarmer We kneel with all those opposing anti-Black racism. #BlackLivesMatter

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1270374388488167428.

    Note the word "All"







    Starmer really winds you up doesn't he?
    Its not me you need to worry about. I'm happy to sit here in rural Bedfordshire on a glorious summer day and watch while he implodes under his own contradictions and look forward to the next election, relishing watching their most sacred shibboleths like the Climate Change act slowly screwing them.

    The millions who can't get a roof over their heads except at eyewatering prices due to competition from immigrants and unable to get anything other than low paid wprk due to plentiful immigrants meaning employers can get away with low wages.

    They are getting VERY wound up and there are rather a lot of them.

    I actually feel sorry for the immigrants who are being exploited by the powers that be for cheap labour and political gain.


    Vanilla effed up. Response here.

    The importation of cheap migrants to do jobs in care homes due to low pay here when they should simply increase the hourly rate is a scandal. These are not skilled professionals who add to the U.K. who are the migrants we really want and need. Coming in to wipe pensioners bums for minimum wage. The real problem is they bring with them children who need educating, at a cost, and other economically inactive dependents who become a net burden on society. All to save a quid or two an hour.

    This guy brought his wife and four kids expecting care home work.

    https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-100-migrants-face-being-in-uk-illegally-as-care-agency-is-stripped-of-ability-to-endorse-visas-13178490
    How is a family of six supposed to exist on one minimum wage salary? It does appear that too many of these agencies are an immigration scam.

    The way to recruit care workers at scale is remarkably easy. Set up an office close to the British embassy in Manila. Take newly-qualified nurses, of whom there are hundreds of thousands in the Philippines, bring them over as care workers and have them work towards registered nursing qualifications in the UK.
    My wife helped her NHS trust recruit Filipino nurses. They were really good.

    Indeed. Most of the nurses are in the sandpit are from there.

    I’ve long had a mad idea that the NHS should open a university hospital in cities like Manila and Mumbai, and use it to train locals towards UK-recognised qualifications that come with visas attached. You could fund it from the foreign aid budget, while also offering fair-priced treatment to local patients. It has to be the easiest and cheapest way of achieving a rapid expansion in training places.
    Similarly I've long suggested that we should outsource our prisons to the third world.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura_Ace said:

    ..

    Scott_xP said:

    I don't doubt events on Monday will make Labour more worried about the impact of the small boats issue. Will they make any policy change? Not sure.

    How does torching a CAB help Stop the Boats?

    It doesn't.

    If Labour change any policies to appease these racists fukwits then democracy is dead.
    Do you not know the days of the week? Monday was the day three girls were stabbed to death and many more could have been by the son of Rwandan migrants. You're a fool if you don't think that won't influence the public at all.
    The narrative was created on Twitter by a right wing agent provocateur. A woman who has form for fake news. Farage, either by cockup or conspiracy ran with that narrative.

    Loads of people calling LBC later this week were sticking with the alleged murderer being a Syrian (Muslim) Refugee. The notion that a lie gets half way around the world before the truth has got it's boots on is a truism.
    It wouldn't surprise me if LBC deliberately put those people through. But again do we have any hard data on how many believed the Syrian refugee story?

    Anyway the rioters are thugs from what I can see. If people really want to draw attention to migration problems they can glue themselves to the road which I'd suggest would be more effective.
    The mindless violence and boorishness of the Yaxley Lennon brigade is the biggest asset their opponents have.
    Fckn hell, sort your quotes out!
    Those are my words. Since sorted that quoting clusterfuck in any case before the six minute hammer dropped.
    Post election come down, innit? Blue vermin sent packing and we now contemplate the new reality.

    Hopefully we'll have a really good, blood drenched and flame wreathed riot season. Then the tory conference should be a laugh, then we're into the US Presidential carnage, then Strictly then it's the Holidays.
    Got a bet on Gove doing Strictly before 2026.

    He'd f-ing better.
    Doesn't look fit and is a piss artist so odds on to go out injured. He will enjoy the copious amounts of sniff that fuels the Strictly experience.
  • Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    For just a little while, the UK is above the US in the Olympic medal table

    Not the way the Americans calculate it!
    Well, I suspect they've got a calculation system which puts them above everyone. And if Trump gets in they certainly will have.
    The official medal table is based on number of gold medals won, the American media base it on total number of medals won if that gives a higher place to the American team. They’ve been doing it for decades, to the point that it’s now a running joke.
    The only time in recent history when the American system gave them a higher place than they'd otherwise have got was 2008 - admittedly an important one as their system has them topping the medal's table in China's home games, whereas everyone else has China first.

    But but the time before that was 1976, where they pip East Germany to second under their system (a huge asterisk on that East German team and several others anyway). In 1964, their system deprived them of top slot and gave it to the Soviets, and it's been quite close to demoting them in other Olympics.

    The US having a different system has amusing results at times, but I don't actually think it's an effort to mislead people about the position. Indeed, across Olympic history, the US tend to get more golds than other medals - they have an imbalance the other way at this one but, in general, it isn't like they pick up a load of solid silvers and bronzes but few golds.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited August 3

    I see Vladimir is now a strategic partner helping to keep our nuclear subs running smoothly.

    "Britain’s nuclear submarine engineers use software that was designed in Russia and Belarus, in contravention of Ministry of Defence rules, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The software should have been created by UK-based staff with security clearance, but its design was partially outsourced to developers in Siberia and Minsk, the capital of Belarus....."

    "The inquiry discovered that the firm that outsourced the work – on a staff intranet for nuclear submarine engineers – to Russia and Belarus initially kept it secret and discussed whether it could disguise where the workers were based by giving them fake names of dead British people...."

    "used developers based in Belarus – Russia’s closest ally – one of whom was actually working from home in Tomsk, Siberia,

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/02/britains-nuclear-submarine-software-designed-russia-belarus/

    Let's hope for some prosecutions.
    If you ever get the chance to drive down the Caterham bypass, note its resemblence to a pre war German Autobahn.

    It was built in the late 30s by a German contractor who put a low tender in so their workers could spend their time off planespotting at local airports like Kenley, Biggin Hill and Croydon and persue their interest in modern factory architecture.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796

    https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1819421471045046597

    Remarkable video of a woman who's son was kidnapped and murdered by a UNRWA employee heckling a speech by Phillipe Lazzarri the head of UNRWA. I wonder if he found time to speak with her afterwards?

    It's in no way remarkable and it has been shown that UNRWA was not resonsible for any kidnapping. It was a story that has subsequently been found to be total bullshit.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,969

    Dura_Ace said:

    ..

    Scott_xP said:

    I don't doubt events on Monday will make Labour more worried about the impact of the small boats issue. Will they make any policy change? Not sure.

    How does torching a CAB help Stop the Boats?

    It doesn't.

    If Labour change any policies to appease these racists fukwits then democracy is dead.
    Do you not know the days of the week? Monday was the day three girls were stabbed to death and many more could have been by the son of Rwandan migrants. You're a fool if you don't think that won't influence the public at all.
    The narrative was created on Twitter by a right wing agent provocateur. A woman who has form for fake news. Farage, either by cockup or conspiracy ran with that narrative.

    Loads of people calling LBC later this week were sticking with the alleged murderer being a Syrian (Muslim) Refugee. The notion that a lie gets half way around the world before the truth has got it's boots on is a truism.
    It wouldn't surprise me if LBC deliberately put those people through. But again do we have any hard data on how many believed the Syrian refugee story?

    Anyway the rioters are thugs from what I can see. If people really want to draw attention to migration problems they can glue themselves to the road which I'd suggest would be more effective.
    The mindless violence and boorishness of the Yaxley Lennon brigade is the biggest asset their opponents have.
    Fckn hell, sort your quotes out!
    Those are my words. Since sorted that quoting clusterfuck in any case before the six minute hammer dropped.
    Post election come down, innit? Blue vermin sent packing and we now contemplate the new reality.

    Hopefully we'll have a really good, blood drenched and flame wreathed riot season. Then the tory conference should be a laugh, then we're into the US Presidential carnage, then Strictly then it's the Holidays.
    Got a bet on Gove doing Strictly before 2026.

    He'd f-ing better.
    JRM could make quite a good ballroom dancer, I think. Not sure how he'd get on doing a Salsa though... 😂
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,572

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    For just a little while, the UK is above the US in the Olympic medal table

    Not the way the Americans calculate it!
    Well, I suspect they've got a calculation system which puts them above everyone. And if Trump gets in they certainly will have.
    The official medal table is based on number of gold medals won, the American media base it on total number of medals won if that gives a higher place to the American team. They’ve been doing it for decades, to the point that it’s now a running joke.
    The only time in recent history when the American system gave them a higher place than they'd otherwise have got was 2008 - admittedly an important one as their system has them topping the medal's table in China's home games, whereas everyone else has China first.

    But but the time before that was 1976, where they pip East Germany to second under their system (a huge asterisk on that East German team and several others anyway). In 1964, their system deprived them of top slot and gave it to the Soviets, and it's been quite close to demoting them in other Olympics.

    The US having a different system has amusing results at times, but I don't actually think it's an effort to mislead people about the position. Indeed, across Olympic history, the US tend to get more golds than other medals - they have an imbalance the other way at this one but, in general, it isn't like they pick up a load of solid silvers and bronzes but few golds.
    Neither system makes logical sense - the US treating third place the same as first, or the IOC system where a shedload of seconds and thirds is worth less than a single first.

    Give ten points for gold, five for silver and two for bronze would be more sensible.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,539

    I see Vladimir is now a strategic partner helping to keep our nuclear subs running smoothly.

    "Britain’s nuclear submarine engineers use software that was designed in Russia and Belarus, in contravention of Ministry of Defence rules, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The software should have been created by UK-based staff with security clearance, but its design was partially outsourced to developers in Siberia and Minsk, the capital of Belarus....."

    "The inquiry discovered that the firm that outsourced the work – on a staff intranet for nuclear submarine engineers – to Russia and Belarus initially kept it secret and discussed whether it could disguise where the workers were based by giving them fake names of dead British people...."

    "used developers based in Belarus – Russia’s closest ally – one of whom was actually working from home in Tomsk, Siberia,

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/02/britains-nuclear-submarine-software-designed-russia-belarus/

    Let's hope for some prosecutions.
    If you ever get the chance to drive down the Caterham bypass, note its resemblence to a pre war German Autobahn.

    It was built in the late 30s by a German contractor who put a low tender in so their workers could spend their time off planespotting at local airports like Kenley, Biggin Hill and Croydon and persue their interest in modern factory architecture.
    Moonraker was arguably the best of Ian Fleming's Bond books though the film completely ignores it. Absurd but quite funny plot.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Great atmosphere at these Olympics.

    For many of us the Track and Field is the highlight of the Olympics, and the 100m final tomorrow night the biggest event of the whole Games.

    Women’s 100m final tonight, where we could see one of the most controversial world records ever set finally consigned to history after 36 years.
    Track and field is always the big ticket item at the Olympics. By far the biggest crowds, and the stadium is ther centrepiece of the event.

    I have to say, though, the joy of the Olympics for me is the sports you don't really see at other times and suddenly intensely enjoy for a few days. Athletics (and other things like tennis and football) are ones where there are major events every year.
    Yes it’s always good to see the minor sports, and the people we’ve never heard of who trained hard for years to make it to the Games.

    I really dislike the sports for whom the Olympics is just another event for the pros - tennis, football, basketball etc. If we are going to have these sports at the Olympics, they should be restricted to ‘amateur’ players, in the same way as boxing.
    Agreed, it is just not the same with household name celebrities, rather than people who might be big among fans of, say, table tennis, but not anyone else.

    Athletics has a lot of major events every year, but is still niche enough that the Olympics is truly special though.
    Everyone in T&F Athletics sees the Olympics as their biggest event, everything else is just building up to this week. They’re lucky that their sport gets a lot of TV time though, with events such as the Diamond League also offering serious prize money

    That’s not true for tennis, football, basketball etc, for whom it’s just another event on the calendar and the Olympics isn’t one of their ‘Majors’.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,539
    Roger said:

    https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1819421471045046597

    Remarkable video of a woman who's son was kidnapped and murdered by a UNRWA employee heckling a speech by Phillipe Lazzarri the head of UNRWA. I wonder if he found time to speak with her afterwards?

    It's in no way remarkable and it has been shown that UNRWA was not resonsible for any kidnapping. It was a story that has subsequently been found to be total bullshit.
    Found by who?
  • Sandpit said:

    I see Vladimir is now a strategic partner helping to keep our nuclear subs running smoothly.

    "Britain’s nuclear submarine engineers use software that was designed in Russia and Belarus, in contravention of Ministry of Defence rules, The Telegraph can reveal.

    The software should have been created by UK-based staff with security clearance, but its design was partially outsourced to developers in Siberia and Minsk, the capital of Belarus....."

    "The inquiry discovered that the firm that outsourced the work – on a staff intranet for nuclear submarine engineers – to Russia and Belarus initially kept it secret and discussed whether it could disguise where the workers were based by giving them fake names of dead British people...."

    "used developers based in Belarus – Russia’s closest ally – one of whom was actually working from home in Tomsk, Siberia,

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/02/britains-nuclear-submarine-software-designed-russia-belarus/

    If there’s any truth to that story, the people involved should be had up for threatening national security.

    Those in the MoD who failed to supervise their contractors should also expect to walk the plank.
    There was a time when a story like this would be the main discussion point of the day.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    GIN1138 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ..

    Scott_xP said:

    I don't doubt events on Monday will make Labour more worried about the impact of the small boats issue. Will they make any policy change? Not sure.

    How does torching a CAB help Stop the Boats?

    It doesn't.

    If Labour change any policies to appease these racists fukwits then democracy is dead.
    Do you not know the days of the week? Monday was the day three girls were stabbed to death and many more could have been by the son of Rwandan migrants. You're a fool if you don't think that won't influence the public at all.
    The narrative was created on Twitter by a right wing agent provocateur. A woman who has form for fake news. Farage, either by cockup or conspiracy ran with that narrative.

    Loads of people calling LBC later this week were sticking with the alleged murderer being a Syrian (Muslim) Refugee. The notion that a lie gets half way around the world before the truth has got it's boots on is a truism.
    It wouldn't surprise me if LBC deliberately put those people through. But again do we have any hard data on how many believed the Syrian refugee story?

    Anyway the rioters are thugs from what I can see. If people really want to draw attention to migration problems they can glue themselves to the road which I'd suggest would be more effective.
    The mindless violence and boorishness of the Yaxley Lennon brigade is the biggest asset their opponents have.
    Fckn hell, sort your quotes out!
    Those are my words. Since sorted that quoting clusterfuck in any case before the six minute hammer dropped.
    Post election come down, innit? Blue vermin sent packing and we now contemplate the new reality.

    Hopefully we'll have a really good, blood drenched and flame wreathed riot season. Then the tory conference should be a laugh, then we're into the US Presidential carnage, then Strictly then it's the Holidays.
    Got a bet on Gove doing Strictly before 2026.

    He'd f-ing better.
    JRM could make quite a good ballroom dancer, I think. Not sure how he'd get on doing a Salsa though... 😂
    I could see Truss doing SCD in a search for rehabilitation as a Portillo style National Treasure.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    For just a little while, the UK is above the US in the Olympic medal table

    Not the way the Americans calculate it!
    Well, I suspect they've got a calculation system which puts them above everyone. And if Trump gets in they certainly will have.
    The official medal table is based on number of gold medals won, the American media base it on total number of medals won if that gives a higher place to the American team. They’ve been doing it for decades, to the point that it’s now a running joke.
    The only time in recent history when the American system gave them a higher place than they'd otherwise have got was 2008 - admittedly an important one as their system has them topping the medal's table in China's home games, whereas everyone else has China first.

    But but the time before that was 1976, where they pip East Germany to second under their system (a huge asterisk on that East German team and several others anyway). In 1964, their system deprived them of top slot and gave it to the Soviets, and it's been quite close to demoting them in other Olympics.

    The US having a different system has amusing results at times, but I don't actually think it's an effort to mislead people about the position. Indeed, across Olympic history, the US tend to get more golds than other medals - they have an imbalance the other way at this one but, in general, it isn't like they pick up a load of solid silvers and bronzes but few golds.
    Neither system makes logical sense - the US treating third place the same as first, or the IOC system where a shedload of seconds and thirds is worth less than a single first.

    Give ten points for gold, five for silver and two for bronze would be more sensible.
    Should make it like Rugby. 5 for a gold, but you get to add 2 for a conversion if you complete a further tricky task.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,503
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ..

    Scott_xP said:

    I don't doubt events on Monday will make Labour more worried about the impact of the small boats issue. Will they make any policy change? Not sure.

    How does torching a CAB help Stop the Boats?

    It doesn't.

    If Labour change any policies to appease these racists fukwits then democracy is dead.
    Do you not know the days of the week? Monday was the day three girls were stabbed to death and many more could have been by the son of Rwandan migrants. You're a fool if you don't think that won't influence the public at all.
    The narrative was created on Twitter by a right wing agent provocateur. A woman who has form for fake news. Farage, either by cockup or conspiracy ran with that narrative.

    Loads of people calling LBC later this week were sticking with the alleged murderer being a Syrian (Muslim) Refugee. The notion that a lie gets half way around the world before the truth has got it's boots on is a truism.
    It wouldn't surprise me if LBC deliberately put those people through. But again do we have any hard data on how many believed the Syrian refugee story?

    Anyway the rioters are thugs from what I can see. If people really want to draw attention to migration problems they can glue themselves to the road which I'd suggest would be more effective.
    The mindless violence and boorishness of the Yaxley Lennon brigade is the biggest asset their opponents have.
    Fckn hell, sort your quotes out!
    Those are my words. Since sorted that quoting clusterfuck in any case before the six minute hammer dropped.
    Post election come down, innit? Blue vermin sent packing and we now contemplate the new reality.

    Hopefully we'll have a really good, blood drenched and flame wreathed riot season. Then the tory conference should be a laugh, then we're into the US Presidential carnage, then Strictly then it's the Holidays.
    Got a bet on Gove doing Strictly before 2026.

    He'd f-ing better.
    Doesn't look fit and is a piss artist so odds on to go out injured. He will enjoy the copious amounts of sniff that fuels the Strictly experience.
    Might be the first case of coke-fuelled abuse and bullying from a contestant to the professionals.

    ‘I’ve had enough of you fucking experts!’
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,969
    edited August 3
    Dura_Ace said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ..

    Scott_xP said:

    I don't doubt events on Monday will make Labour more worried about the impact of the small boats issue. Will they make any policy change? Not sure.

    How does torching a CAB help Stop the Boats?

    It doesn't.

    If Labour change any policies to appease these racists fukwits then democracy is dead.
    Do you not know the days of the week? Monday was the day three girls were stabbed to death and many more could have been by the son of Rwandan migrants. You're a fool if you don't think that won't influence the public at all.
    The narrative was created on Twitter by a right wing agent provocateur. A woman who has form for fake news. Farage, either by cockup or conspiracy ran with that narrative.

    Loads of people calling LBC later this week were sticking with the alleged murderer being a Syrian (Muslim) Refugee. The notion that a lie gets half way around the world before the truth has got it's boots on is a truism.
    It wouldn't surprise me if LBC deliberately put those people through. But again do we have any hard data on how many believed the Syrian refugee story?

    Anyway the rioters are thugs from what I can see. If people really want to draw attention to migration problems they can glue themselves to the road which I'd suggest would be more effective.
    The mindless violence and boorishness of the Yaxley Lennon brigade is the biggest asset their opponents have.
    Fckn hell, sort your quotes out!
    Those are my words. Since sorted that quoting clusterfuck in any case before the six minute hammer dropped.
    Post election come down, innit? Blue vermin sent packing and we now contemplate the new reality.

    Hopefully we'll have a really good, blood drenched and flame wreathed riot season. Then the tory conference should be a laugh, then we're into the US Presidential carnage, then Strictly then it's the Holidays.
    Got a bet on Gove doing Strictly before 2026.

    He'd f-ing better.
    JRM could make quite a good ballroom dancer, I think. Not sure how he'd get on doing a Salsa though... 😂
    I could see Truss doing SCD in a search for rehabilitation as a Portillo style National Treasure.
    Portillo's rehabilitation started on election night when he stood in front of the people and accepted their verdict with that memorable speech.

    Truss, as the coward she is, flitted in at the last possible moment before the declaration and refused to give a speech.

    She'd have to do something much more "intense" than SCD to earn rehabilitation from GBP. It's the Jungle for her, I think... ;)
This discussion has been closed.