Trump's "fight, fight, fight" and raised fist reaction to his shooting was objectively extraordinary. But I am not sure it is going to do him any favours. If you are non-MAGA - ie, you are in the majority among Americans - what you saw encouraged there was a violent response to violence. Combine that with the Year 2025 stuff and the course of a second Trump Presidency is very clearly set out. It will lead to more division and more danger. Independents may not find that particularly attractive.
However, a Trump stumble is predicated entirely on Biden departing the stage. His only possible route to victory is to make voters more scared of Trump than they are of him. That means highly divisive language that can only inflame. This will not work so will deliver Trump victory. A new Democratic candidate offers the opportunity of a total reset in rhetoric and focus. Will it happen? Probably not, unfortunately.
The other thing about what happened yesterday is that it shines a light once again on Europe's total failure to plan for a second Trump term. The UK, Germany and France have been tragically and shamefully complacent. The consequences for our continent could well be catastrophic. Our only hope is that Trump loses. We are entirely dependent on events completely out of our control. What a terrible place to be.
Perhaps you agree with CNN here, that 5 seconds after nearly dying by a gunshot Trump should have "tamped down the rhetoric"
"CNN's Jamie Gangel attacks Trump for saying "Fight! Fight! Fight!" after someone tried to murder him.
Literally, she complains about what he did 5 seconds after he was shot
"That's not the message that we want to being sending right now. We want to tamp it down""
lol. Lefties hate Trump so much they are mental. They are more dangerous than Trump. That is the takeaway here
Nope, I am merely saying that Trump's response revealed his way of seeing the world. It was the natural response of someone who believes that political violence is OK. A lot of Americans, many of them independent voters, do not share that view and may not want to live in an America where it is the view of the government.
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
Journalist David Aaronovitch is in deep trouble on TwiX because he did a silly tweet that exhorted Biden to do just that, about a week ago: use his immunity to slay Trump via the Secret Service
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
I largely, if reluctantly, agree with this. In particular the UK needs to coordinate with the rest of Europe to ensure that if the worst happens in January next year Europe can support Ukraine sufficiently for them to drive the Russians from their soil. That requires significant investment in arms manufacture and it requires it now. We cannot wait until November and hope.
Labour hasn't even truly committed to 2.5% of GDP for defence by 2030, making it contingent on a review and economic circumstances.
Compared to the likes of Germany and Poland we are doing nothing.
Maybe the government is presenting a calm exterior, but I'd be a hell of a lot more reassured by some immediate action, as it is already overdue.
They (the EE EU states) should have thought about that before siding with Varadkar during Brexit.
Just had an in-law on the phone - a Cambridge educated lawyer, no less - sincerely lamenting that the shooter missed Trump. What does she think would have happened? MAGA types would have just gone "oh, ok, you've convinced us, you were right after all? "
People are frustratingly unable to think through the consequences of these things.
Yes. This is why I think the Dems are at least implicated in this, even if they didn't conspire to hire a shooter. They have raised the rhetoric against Trump to such a high level "he is an American Hitler, he will destroy democracy" they have certainly enabled any nutter, to feel justified in shooting Trump. As with your friend: lots now want him dead and think it is morally correct that he is slain
I now believe the Dems are, marginally, a greater threat than Trump, with their demented leader and this tacit approval of political murder
I think Biden's strategy of portraying Trump as a threat to democracy, while justified, is now unworkable, being too inflammatory. Another reason why he should step aside.
There is no Dem tacit approval of political murder! That is OTT, even for you. Though on the other side, I could see tacit approval of political murder from Trump - e.g. hang Mike Pence.
Are you joking?
if you paint someone as Satan, and the epitome of evil, and an American Hitler, then yes, you are cueing up violent people to take him out, and you are making them feel morally correct in doing so
You do know that *both sides* are doing this. Surely. Its a little odd to complain that the Democrats are agitating for political violence when the Republicans stormed the Capitol wanting to lynch the Vice-President as a traitor.
Both sides need to calm the fuck down. But can't do because its a battle for the soul of America. One side wants to make everyone trans and flood the country with illegals, the other side wants to ban women travelling interstate having banned birth control and abortion.
Fair
But the Dems have done a brilliant job of making this Alien V Predator, rather than good v bad
How do we define "good" and "bad". I find some of the stuff done by both sides to be bad. But from my perspective the bad GOP stuff outweighs the bad DNC stuff. Others have it the other way round.
Putting it simply America is tearing itself apart. Culturally, morally, politically. My impression of the country when I travelled round it in 1997 was of a zoo, because Americans in some states were completely different creatures to Americans in other states. Perhaps "The American Dream" bound them altogether somehow, but whatever did has gone away.
Red America repulses Blue America repulses Red America. And its no longer just on fringe issues, its on core values and beliefs. Neither party has proven capable of trying to smooth off the edges and restate the shared ideals. And no other option is possible because the duopoly crushes 3rd parties and independents.
Regardless of which side wins the election, America will continue to tear itself apart at a greater speed. But if its Trump, that tearing will be bloody and it will be terminal. And the tragedy/comedy is that the right think the exact same thing if Trump loses.
Trump's "fight, fight, fight" and raised fist reaction to his shooting was objectively extraordinary. But I am not sure it is going to do him any favours. If you are non-MAGA - ie, you are in the majority among Americans - what you saw encouraged there was a violent response to violence. Combine that with the Year 2025 stuff and the course of a second Trump Presidency is very clearly set out. It will lead to more division and more danger. Independents may not find that particularly attractive.
However, a Trump stumble is predicated entirely on Biden departing the stage. His only possible route to victory is to make voters more scared of Trump than they are of him. That means highly divisive language that can only inflame. This will not work so will deliver Trump victory. A new Democratic candidate offers the opportunity of a total reset in rhetoric and focus. Will it happen? Probably not, unfortunately.
The other thing about what happened yesterday is that it shines a light once again on Europe's total failure to plan for a second Trump term. The UK, Germany and France have been tragically and shamefully complacent. The consequences for our continent could well be catastrophic. Our only hope is that Trump loses. We are entirely dependent on events completely out of our control. What a terrible place to be.
Perhaps you agree with CNN here, that 5 seconds after nearly dying by a gunshot Trump should have "tamped down the rhetoric"
"CNN's Jamie Gangel attacks Trump for saying "Fight! Fight! Fight!" after someone tried to murder him.
Literally, she complains about what he did 5 seconds after he was shot
"That's not the message that we want to being sending right now. We want to tamp it down""
lol. Lefties hate Trump so much they are mental. They are more dangerous than Trump. That is the takeaway here
Nope, I am merely saying that Trump's response revealed his way of seeing the world. It was the natural response of someone who believes that political violence is OK. A lot of Americans, many of them independent voters, do not share that view and may not want to live in an America where it is the view of the government.
Insane
It truly is. But we are where we are. Trump believes in political violence, as he demonstrated on 6th January 2021. Many millions of Americans do not.
Good morning everyone. I think we need a bit of OT today.
So my question: who is your most 'differently interesting' famous local? For cities I'll give you within one mile, for everyone else within 5 miles.
I'll have two:
- Percy Toplis the Monocled Mutineer, from South Normanton / Blackwell. - Harold Lloyd, the cricketer, from Nuncargate, Kirkby-in-Ashfield. It has a very good working class not-at-all-poncy butcher, which I appreciate.
My photo for the day is Larwood bowling to a full "Leg Theory" field.
Here in the Flatlands there be Wesley et al, but probably the most relevant to an internet forum - George Boole taught in a local school and developed his theories on binary arithmetic whilst walking on Doncaster's Town Fields.
Most of the memorials are in Lincoln though.
Maybe doesn't qualify as 'differently interesting' though.
Good morning everyone. I think we need a bit of OT today.
So my question: who is your most 'differently interesting' famous local? For cities I'll give you within one mile, for everyone else within 5 miles.
I'll have two:
- Percy Toplis the Monocled Mutineer, from South Normanton / Blackwell. - Harold Lloyd, the cricketer, from Nuncargate, Kirkby-in-Ashfield. It has a very good working class not-at-all-poncy butcher, which I appreciate.
My photo for the day is Larwood bowling to a full "Leg Theory" field.
Here in the Flatlands there be Wesley et al, but probably the most relevant to an internet forum - George Boole taught in a local school and developed his theories on binary arithmetic whilst walking on Doncaster's Town Fields.
Most of the memorials are in Lincoln though.
Maybe doesn't qualify as 'differently interesting' though.
A bit late but Harold LARWOOD was born in Kirkby-in-Ashfield, not Harold Lloyd.
I corrected that one as well !
That's a name swap I often do - they both had a pair of glasses and a smile.
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
Journalist David Aaronovitch is in deep trouble on TwiX because he did a silly tweet that exhorted Biden to do just that, about a week ago: use his immunity to slay Trump via the Secret Service
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
What a fucking mess
He was making a point about the ridiculous SC ruling on immunity . Hindsight is of course a wonderful thing . But the left isn’t going to be lectured to given Trumps past comments .
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
Journalist David Aaronovitch is in deep trouble on TwiX because he did a silly tweet that exhorted Biden to do just that, about a week ago: use his immunity to slay Trump via the Secret Service
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
What a fucking mess
It is! The Supreme Court ruling allows for legal political assassinations, pogroms, jailings. Whatever the President does officially is legal. Trump will have the power to arrest political enemies, convict people of treason and shoot them, making reference to his porn star ex a capital crime - anything he likes.
And Mr Dictator from Day 1 won't be shy using his new powers.
So why shouldn't Biden pass his own Enabling Order? Oh yeah, because he thinks he isn't above the law, and *shouldn't* be above the law. Which is why he will lose.
EDF are looking for investors to put another £5 billion into Hinkley C nuclear power station. Good luck with that!
Those EDF Board members who resigned before the morning before the decision to go ahead was taken are looking like the smartest guys in the room. (It now won't start production until at least 2029 BTW.)
How is this taking so long, over budget erc. I thought the point was this was what EDF knew how to do as they have loads in France?
"In a letter to staff, seen by the BBC, Stuart Crooks, the managing director of Hinkley Point C, said there were 7,000 substantial design changes required by British regulations that needed to be made to the site, with 35% more steel and 25% more concrete needed than originally planned."
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
No, but Trump getting shot by a neo-Nazi would be a neat piece of cinematic irony. (I have no idea what the political affiliations of the shooter are.)
EDF are looking for investors to put another £5 billion into Hinkley C nuclear power station. Good luck with that!
Those EDF Board members who resigned before the morning before the decision to go ahead was taken are looking like the smartest guys in the room. (It now won't start production until at least 2029 BTW.)
How is this taking so long, over budget erc. I thought the point was this was what EDF knew how to do as they have loads in France?
"In a letter to staff, seen by the BBC, Stuart Crooks, the managing director of Hinkley Point C, said there were 7,000 substantial design changes required by British regulations that needed to be made to the site, with 35% more steel and 25% more concrete needed than originally planned."
Trump has made very clear he has no problem with political violence if it is his own side doing it. That is not even remotely controversial. His "fight, fight, fight" reaction to yesterday's shooting was brilliant in that context: a defiant, entirely authentic and spontaneous restatement of a core belief. But there will be many millions of Americans who will not like its implications. A new Democratic candidate would have the opportunity to provide a kind of leadership that neither Trump nor Biden can offer. Unfortunately, it is highly unlikely to happen.
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
It's like XL Bully owners getting savaged to death by their own dogs. Every man's death diminishes me. But some diminish me a feck of a lot more than others.
1) trump is going to become president. 2) in addition to "immunity" he now has "justification" in seeking harsh police state security policies 3) I don't think this is the last extreme event in the US election
I have a hard time seeing where this ends for our American cousins .... they are becoming a political mad house. I wonder if it could all suddenly come flying apart.
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
If Biden wins again we're likely getting a few years of whatever 'official acts' Hunter wants doing.
I suspect said "official" acts of Hunter and a few others lie behind the desperate attempts to stop Joe standing down and continuing to give them cover.
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
If you forment hate and violence then you can't moan when it erupts. Trump is threatening a civil war if he doesn’t win . His comments are inciting violence . The GOP trying to beatify him now is vomit inducing .
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
Journalist David Aaronovitch is in deep trouble on TwiX because he did a silly tweet that exhorted Biden to do just that, about a week ago: use his immunity to slay Trump via the Secret Service
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
What a fucking mess
He was making a point about the ridiculous SC ruling on immunity . Hindsight is of course a wonderful thing . But the left isn’t going to be lectured to given Trumps past comments .
You don't think that Biden saying, just one week ago:
"We’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye."
... was directly inflammatory, and encouraging people to shoot Trump dead?
Because it very obviously inflammatory, and it was literally encouraging people to shoot Trump dead
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
Journalist David Aaronovitch is in deep trouble on TwiX because he did a silly tweet that exhorted Biden to do just that, about a week ago: use his immunity to slay Trump via the Secret Service
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
What a fucking mess
Is the “bullseye” Biden Tweet definitely genuine? I see a few different sources for it now.
Everyone needs to calm the hell down with the rhetoric.
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
If you forment hate and violence then you can't moan when it erupts. Trump is threatening a civil war if he doesn’t win . His comments are inciting violence . The GOP trying to beatify him now is vomit inducing .
There it is. Trump deserves to be shot. That is the real opinion of the Left. That's the comment. Right there
Pelosi was never targeted for assassination. These things are not the same. A man broke into her house. His intent was to record her confessing to her crimes or whatever, he was unable to get to Nancy and attacked her husband with a hammer. A deplorable series of actions which have put him away for thirty years, but this is not the same as climbing onto a building and trying to blow the head of a presidential candidate.
Trump's "fight, fight, fight" and raised fist reaction to his shooting was objectively extraordinary. But I am not sure it is going to do him any favours. If you are non-MAGA - ie, you are in the majority among Americans - what you saw encouraged there was a violent response to violence. Combine that with the Year 2025 stuff and the course of a second Trump Presidency is very clearly set out. It will lead to more division and more danger. Independents may not find that particularly attractive.
However, a Trump stumble is predicated entirely on Biden departing the stage. His only possible route to victory is to make voters more scared of Trump than they are of him. That means highly divisive language that can only inflame. This will not work so will deliver Trump victory. A new Democratic candidate offers the opportunity of a total reset in rhetoric and focus. Will it happen? Probably not, unfortunately.
The other thing about what happened yesterday is that it shines a light once again on Europe's total failure to plan for a second Trump term. The UK, Germany and France have been tragically and shamefully complacent. The consequences for our continent could well be catastrophic. Our only hope is that Trump loses. We are entirely dependent on events completely out of our control. What a terrible place to be.
If it wasn't already clear before yesterday, Trump is going to win the election. With all the terrible consequences of that happening.
Biden simply cannot beat Trump. So if they leave him on the ticket Trump wins. But removing him from the ticket needs to happen quickly - only a month to go until the convention and we can't have it brokered if a new nominee is to stand any chance.
You are right - the west needs to plan for what happens to the world when Trump removes the US from the world stage. The defence implications are dire. So are the economic ones.
Never mind the bleating about Brexit I read this morning, Starmer needs to tell the European meeting that we want back in. Not to the EU as such, into "Europe" from a planning and cooperation perspective. We hang together or we will surely hang separately as Putin picks us off cheered on by Trump.
No sane European country is ever going to engage with a UK government containing Ed Miliband.
I have Good News! Milliband is sane compared to so many European politicians. And compares favourably to the idiots just thrown out of office.
LOL the Europeans have to get past David Lammy first before the spectre of Ed hoves in to view.
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
If you forment hate and violence then you can't moan when it erupts. Trump is threatening a civil war if he doesn’t win . His comments are inciting violence . The GOP trying to beatify him now is vomit inducing .
There it is. Trump deserves to be shot. That is the real opinion of the Left. That's the comment. Right there
Yes but the left are righteous (as defined by themselves) not right wing deplorables, so for them to do so is understandable and proper,
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
No, but Trump getting shot by a neo-Nazi would be a neat piece of cinematic irony. (I have no idea what the political affiliations of the shooter are.)
They seem mixed. He donated to Democratic causes, but he also joined the Republican party. So maybe a lone confused dude (easily recruited?)
As with JFK, we may never know
The more interesting and potentially revealing details are the remarkably lax security and the slow reactions of secruity agents. The Telegraph is saying the SService were warned FOUR MINUTES before the shooting that there was a gunman on a roof. And it's not an obscure faraway roof, it looks like THE place from which to slot Trump, if you are so minded
If anyone has noticed names of self-identified disabled MPs - which means saying publicly they have an impairment or long-term condition which signficantly impacts how they can live, could you reply.
I just spotted my first fairy story - "Now there may be NINE disabled MPs in the Commons".
My list without breaking sweat is already well over 20, even though 335 MPs are brand new and unknown. Last time I did this when there were "Five", it was childsplay to find around 40.
I don't like how such claims turn debate into "what an awful place this is", "why so few", "all disabled shortlists" etc, pandering to the partisan - especially as that process rubs out understanding of the range of disabled people in our political process. And that latter is where debate needs to be.
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
If you forment hate and violence then you can't moan when it erupts. Trump is threatening a civil war if he doesn’t win . His comments are inciting violence . The GOP trying to beatify him now is vomit inducing .
There it is. Trump deserves to be shot. That is the real opinion of the Left. That's the comment. Right there
Yes but the left are righteous (as defined by themselves) not right wing deplorables, so for them to do so is understandable and proper,
Given that the PB lefties are now admitting that they want Trump dead and it's a shame he survived because he deserves to be killed, then one can only presume that this was, indeed, a lefty conspiracy to kill Trump
On topic? It is hard to assess Putin as a success or failure. He has certainly had achievements as the thread header points out.
But consider where Putin was in 2020. Someone who had attempted to reassert Russian influence over eastern Europe was facing almost total defeat. Nato and the EU expanded, Ukraine completely west facing (apart from the bits he had occupied), losing in Moldova and on the verge of losing Belarus. Russian influence in its near abroad would have been gone. Has his going for broke strategy reversed that? Unclear. The full economic impact has yet to be felt. And his clients insist on being paid.
Trump has made very clear he has no problem with political violence if it is his own side doing it. That is not even remotely controversial. His "fight, fight, fight" reaction to yesterday's shooting was brilliant in that context: a defiant, entirely authentic and spontaneous restatement of a core belief. But there will be many millions of Americans who will not like its implications. A new Democratic candidate would have the opportunity to provide a kind of leadership that neither Trump nor Biden can offer. Unfortunately, it is highly unlikely to happen.
There is no shortage of American politicians who use the metaphor 'fight' in their rhetoric. In fact, I would suggest the word 'fight' is used by many/most politicians in the English speaking world. Especially when 'fighting' an election.
* @Dura_Ace will have a view on how possible that will be .
Spending more money on defence is socially destructive but if they've got to do it they should assign the cash to simple things that can't be fucked up and wasted in a decades long procurement project.
Increase pay and benefits for other ranks Fix the housing Stockpile massive amounts of ammo More road transport Bring stuff like airfield operations back in house from Serco/Capita
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
Journalist David Aaronovitch is in deep trouble on TwiX because he did a silly tweet that exhorted Biden to do just that, about a week ago: use his immunity to slay Trump via the Secret Service
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
What a fucking mess
Is the “bullseye” Biden Tweet definitely genuine? I see a few different sources for it now.
Everyone needs to calm the hell down with the rhetoric.
Yes. Genuine
“I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,” Biden said
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
If you forment hate and violence then you can't moan when it erupts. Trump is threatening a civil war if he doesn’t win . His comments are inciting violence . The GOP trying to beatify him now is vomit inducing .
There it is. Trump deserves to be shot. That is the real opinion of the Left. That's the comment. Right there
I won’t engage in crocodile tears for Trump . If Trump wasn’t a sociopath with a single redeeming feature I might care. I really don’t.
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
No, but Trump getting shot by a neo-Nazi would be a neat piece of cinematic irony. (I have no idea what the political affiliations of the shooter are.)
Has Trump ever participated in neo-nazi behaviour or sought out their support? No seriously, has he?
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
If you forment hate and violence then you can't moan when it erupts. Trump is threatening a civil war if he doesn’t win . His comments are inciting violence . The GOP trying to beatify him now is vomit inducing .
There it is. Trump deserves to be shot. That is the real opinion of the Left. That's the comment. Right there
Yes but the left are righteous (as defined by themselves) not right wing deplorables, so for them to do so is understandable and proper,
Given that the PB lefties are now admitting that they want Trump dead and it's a shame he survived because he deserves to be killed, then one can only presume that this was, indeed, a lefty conspiracy to kill Trump
How would you feel about a communist plot to kill Hitler in 1936?
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
If you forment hate and violence then you can't moan when it erupts. Trump is threatening a civil war if he doesn’t win . His comments are inciting violence . The GOP trying to beatify him now is vomit inducing .
There it is. Trump deserves to be shot. That is the real opinion of the Left. That's the comment. Right there
Yes but the left are righteous (as defined by themselves) not right wing deplorables, so for them to do so is understandable and proper,
Given that the PB lefties are now admitting that they want Trump dead and it's a shame he survived because he deserves to be killed, then one can only presume that this was, indeed, a lefty conspiracy to kill Trump
I don't know, the likely uselessness of the security mob is likely down to incompetence but who knows.
I suspect though a lot of people this morning are very relieved that the assasin is a white male of seemingly English or other northern (western) European heritage. Not a person of colour, female or of undetermined gender or associated with any "controversial" state.
Thanks for kind comments so far. I'm throwing myself out of a plane today so depending on the clouds I don't have much time to read or respond to comments but will catch up later.
A defiant President Joe Biden insisted to his donors on Monday that he is “done talking about the debate” and implored the party to ignore any further distractions and direct its attention back to Donald Trump.
“We need to move forward. Look, we have roughly 40 days til the convention, 120 days til the election. We can’t waste any more time being distracted,” Biden said in a private call with donors Monday, according to a recording obtained by POLITICO.
“I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,” Biden said.
The forceful message from Biden — which was delivered to hundreds of top Democratic donors and bundlers in the president's National Finance Committee — is the latest evidence that the president and his allies are working furiously to stem defections in the party.
Somewhat unfortunate language from the president, given subsequent events, but yet another example of everyone needing to calm down a little.
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
No, but Trump getting shot by a neo-Nazi would be a neat piece of cinematic irony. (I have no idea what the political affiliations of the shooter are.)
They seem mixed. He donated to Democratic causes, but he also joined the Republican party. So maybe a lone confused dude (easily recruited?)
As with JFK, we may never know
The more interesting and potentially revealing details are the remarkably lax security and the slow reactions of secruity agents. The Telegraph is saying the SService were warned FOUR MINUTES before the shooting that there was a gunman on a roof. And it's not an obscure faraway roof, it looks like THE place from which to slot Trump, if you are so minded
The US secret service we see on the TV and in films may not be an accurate depiction of the real secret service. In the clips I saw there were quite a few secret service people struggling to pull out their weapons and generally looking a bit bemused/confused. Maybe the actual president gets the real elite and there is a cascade in quality downwards from there.
Thanks for kind comments so far. I'm throwing myself out of a plane today so depending on the clouds I don't have much time to read or respond to comments but will catch up later.
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
If you forment hate and violence then you can't moan when it erupts. Trump is threatening a civil war if he doesn’t win . His comments are inciting violence . The GOP trying to beatify him now is vomit inducing .
There it is. Trump deserves to be shot. That is the real opinion of the Left. That's the comment. Right there
Yes but the left are righteous (as defined by themselves) not right wing deplorables, so for them to do so is understandable and proper,
Given that the PB lefties are now admitting that they want Trump dead and it's a shame he survived because he deserves to be killed, then one can only presume that this was, indeed, a lefty conspiracy to kill Trump
How would you feel about a communist plot to kill Hitler in 1936?
Nervous it might go wrong
But Trump is not Hitler. That is the point. He really isn't. He's a mad narcissist but look what he actually did in office? What he mainly did was boast and make stupid remarks and generally embarrass America, it wasn't a Hitlerite dictatorship. And, by the way, no major wars started on his watch
However the Dems hate him so much they;ve gone entirely mad and they have dialled up the rhetoric to the point where last weak Biden literally encouraged people to kill Trump - "put him in a bullseye"
Trump has made very clear he has no problem with political violence if it is his own side doing it. That is not even remotely controversial. His "fight, fight, fight" reaction to yesterday's shooting was brilliant in that context: a defiant, entirely authentic and spontaneous restatement of a core belief. But there will be many millions of Americans who will not like its implications. A new Democratic candidate would have the opportunity to provide a kind of leadership that neither Trump nor Biden can offer. Unfortunately, it is highly unlikely to happen.
There is no shortage of American politicians who use the metaphor 'fight' in their rhetoric. In fact, I would suggest the word 'fight' is used by many/most politicians in the English speaking world. Especially when 'fighting' an election. #
There is, however, a shortage of American politicians who have actually instigated political violence and failed to condemn it when used against their political opponents. Trump pretty much stands alone on that front. I'd see the "fight, fight, fight" in that context but am happy to accept you don't.
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
Journalist David Aaronovitch is in deep trouble on TwiX because he did a silly tweet that exhorted Biden to do just that, about a week ago: use his immunity to slay Trump via the Secret Service
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
What a fucking mess
Is the “bullseye” Biden Tweet definitely genuine? I see a few different sources for it now.
Everyone needs to calm the hell down with the rhetoric.
Yes. Genuine
“I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,” Biden said
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
No, but Trump getting shot by a neo-Nazi would be a neat piece of cinematic irony. (I have no idea what the political affiliations of the shooter are.)
The shooter was a registered Republican, according to the BBC. I’m not sure how that ties in with the KILLER DEMS!!!!1! conspiracy that this site’s peripatetic troll (never one to knowingly underreact) is lathering himself into a frenzy over but there we are.
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
If you forment hate and violence then you can't moan when it erupts. Trump is threatening a civil war if he doesn’t win . His comments are inciting violence . The GOP trying to beatify him now is vomit inducing .
There it is. Trump deserves to be shot. That is the real opinion of the Left. That's the comment. Right there
Yes but the left are righteous (as defined by themselves) not right wing deplorables, so for them to do so is understandable and proper,
Given that the PB lefties are now admitting that they want Trump dead and it's a shame he survived because he deserves to be killed, then one can only presume that this was, indeed, a lefty conspiracy to kill Trump
How would you feel about a communist plot to kill Hitler in 1936?
Nervous it might go wrong
But Trump is not Hitler. That is the point. He really isn't. He's a mad narcissist but look what he actually did in office? What he mainly did was boast and make stupid remarks and generally embarrass America, it wasn't a Hitlerite dictatorship. And, by the way, no major wars started on his watch
However the Dems hate him so much they;ve gone entirely mad and they have dialled up the rhetoric to the point where last weak Biden literally encouraged people to kill Trump - "put him in a bullseye"
And now someone has tried to kill him
Trump instigated a violent attack on the US Congress designed to overturn the result of the Presidential election. That's quite embarrassing, to put it mildly.
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
Journalist David Aaronovitch is in deep trouble on TwiX because he did a silly tweet that exhorted Biden to do just that, about a week ago: use his immunity to slay Trump via the Secret Service
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
What a fucking mess
Is the “bullseye” Biden Tweet definitely genuine? I see a few different sources for it now.
Everyone needs to calm the hell down with the rhetoric.
Yes. Genuine
“I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,” Biden said
That is a metaphor though, its about putting him in the spotlight.
Yes of course it’s a metaphor, but it’s a rather unfortunate one given subsequent events. Biden’s rhetoric towards Trump has not been that of a normal campaign, but very aggressive and trying to paint his opponent as a threat to the country.
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
No, but Trump getting shot by a neo-Nazi would be a neat piece of cinematic irony. (I have no idea what the political affiliations of the shooter are.)
They seem mixed. He donated to Democratic causes, but he also joined the Republican party. So maybe a lone confused dude (easily recruited?)
As with JFK, we may never know
The more interesting and potentially revealing details are the remarkably lax security and the slow reactions of secruity agents. The Telegraph is saying the SService were warned FOUR MINUTES before the shooting that there was a gunman on a roof. And it's not an obscure faraway roof, it looks like THE place from which to slot Trump, if you are so minded
The US secret service we see on the TV and in films may not be an accurate depiction of the real secret service. In the clips I saw there were quite a few secret service people struggling to pull out their weapons and generally looking a bit bemused/confused. Maybe the actual president gets the real elite and there is a cascade in quality downwards from there.
My ex SAS friend told me some interesting stuff about the US military/security/intel world a few days ago (he is half American, his dad lives there, they are all linked to the military)
He told me they all hate Trump. Probably "all" is a bit of an exaggeration but his point sounds good: they despise Trump as anti-patriotic, and as contemptuous of American soldiers ("the losers are dead in the cemetery"). they abhor the way he treated Maitlis and war-hero McCain, and so on
In that context it is believeable that the security service maybe didn't do their very very best to save him?
The statement is true "The central premise of the Biden campaign is that President Donald Trump is an authoritarian fascist who must be stopped at all costs."
Whether that means the Dems/Biden is responsible for this is another matter. The above rhetoric has gone up a gear very recently though.
Just had an in-law on the phone - a Cambridge educated lawyer, no less - sincerely lamenting that the shooter missed Trump. What does she think would have happened? MAGA types would have just gone "oh, ok, you've convinced us, you were right after all? "
People are frustratingly unable to think through the consequences of these things.
Yes. This is why I think the Dems are at least implicated in this, even if they didn't conspire to hire a shooter. They have raised the rhetoric against Trump to such a high level "he is an American Hitler, he will destroy democracy" they have certainly enabled any nutter, to feel justified in shooting Trump. As with your friend: lots now want him dead and think it is morally correct that he is slain
I now believe the Dems are, marginally, a greater threat than Trump, with their demented leader and this tacit approval of political murder
I think Biden's strategy of portraying Trump as a threat to democracy, while justified, is now unworkable, being too inflammatory. Another reason why he should step aside.
There is no Dem tacit approval of political murder! That is OTT, even for you. Though on the other side, I could see tacit approval of political murder from Trump - e.g. hang Mike Pence.
Are you joking?
if you paint someone as Satan, and the epitome of evil, and an American Hitler, then yes, you are cueing up violent people to take him out, and you are making them feel morally correct in doing so
You do know that *both sides* are doing this. Surely. Its a little odd to complain that the Democrats are agitating for political violence when the Republicans stormed the Capitol wanting to lynch the Vice-President as a traitor.
Both sides need to calm the fuck down. But can't do because its a battle for the soul of America. One side wants to make everyone trans and flood the country with illegals, the other side wants to ban women travelling interstate having banned birth control and abortion.
Both have choices to make about whether to tamp down the flames, or throw on petrol. The initial signs are mixed, and not particularly encouraging.
VP possible JD Vance has already made a statement specifically blaming the Democrats, using the Leon argument.
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
No, but Trump getting shot by a neo-Nazi would be a neat piece of cinematic irony. (I have no idea what the political affiliations of the shooter are.)
The shooter was a registered Republican, according to the BBC. I’m not sure how that ties in with the KILLER DEMS!!!!1! conspiracy that this site’s peripatetic troll (never one to knowingly underreact) is lathering himself into a frenzy over but there we are.
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
Journalist David Aaronovitch is in deep trouble on TwiX because he did a silly tweet that exhorted Biden to do just that, about a week ago: use his immunity to slay Trump via the Secret Service
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
What a fucking mess
Is the “bullseye” Biden Tweet definitely genuine? I see a few different sources for it now.
Everyone needs to calm the hell down with the rhetoric.
Yes. Genuine
“I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,” Biden said
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
Journalist David Aaronovitch is in deep trouble on TwiX because he did a silly tweet that exhorted Biden to do just that, about a week ago: use his immunity to slay Trump via the Secret Service
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
What a fucking mess
Is the “bullseye” Biden Tweet definitely genuine? I see a few different sources for it now.
Everyone needs to calm the hell down with the rhetoric.
Yes. Genuine
“I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,” Biden said
That is a metaphor though, its about putting him in the spotlight.
Ah. "Just a metaphor"
Would you be so forgiving if Trump said this, and a weel later someone nearly killed Biden, by putting him in a bullseye?
What that be "just a metaphor"?
Somehow I think not
I would be, as a post I made a a few down clearly talks about when a politician says 'fight', it doesn't mean go and get some weapons and literally start a fight.
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
Journalist David Aaronovitch is in deep trouble on TwiX because he did a silly tweet that exhorted Biden to do just that, about a week ago: use his immunity to slay Trump via the Secret Service
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
What a fucking mess
Is the “bullseye” Biden Tweet definitely genuine? I see a few different sources for it now.
Everyone needs to calm the hell down with the rhetoric.
Yes. Genuine
“I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,” Biden said
That is a metaphor though, its about putting him in the spotlight.
Yes of course it’s a metaphor, but it’s a rather unfortunate one given subsequent events. Biden’s rhetoric towards Trump has not been that of a normal campaign, but very aggressive and trying to paint his opponent as a threat to the country.
It's not a metaphor. If it's a metaphor he would have said "spotlight". He didn't say "spotllight" he said "bullseye". That's a metaphor which means "make him a physical target for a shot", and now they've gone and done that, and only just missed the bullseye
I guess the only excuse is that Biden is completely demented, and gets all his words wrong, but the Dems are denying THAT as well
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
No, but Trump getting shot by a neo-Nazi would be a neat piece of cinematic irony. (I have no idea what the political affiliations of the shooter are.)
They seem mixed. He donated to Democratic causes, but he also joined the Republican party. So maybe a lone confused dude (easily recruited?)
As with JFK, we may never know
The more interesting and potentially revealing details are the remarkably lax security and the slow reactions of secruity agents. The Telegraph is saying the SService were warned FOUR MINUTES before the shooting that there was a gunman on a roof. And it's not an obscure faraway roof, it looks like THE place from which to slot Trump, if you are so minded
The US secret service we see on the TV and in films may not be an accurate depiction of the real secret service. In the clips I saw there were quite a few secret service people struggling to pull out their weapons and generally looking a bit bemused/confused. Maybe the actual president gets the real elite and there is a cascade in quality downwards from there.
I am not sure having a 4ft woman as part of the human shield was a great move....
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
Journalist David Aaronovitch is in deep trouble on TwiX because he did a silly tweet that exhorted Biden to do just that, about a week ago: use his immunity to slay Trump via the Secret Service
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
What a fucking mess
Is the “bullseye” Biden Tweet definitely genuine? I see a few different sources for it now.
Everyone needs to calm the hell down with the rhetoric.
Yes. Genuine
“I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,” Biden said
That is a metaphor though, its about putting him in the spotlight.
Ah. "Just a metaphor"
Would you be so forgiving if Trump said this, and a weel later someone nearly killed Biden, by putting him in a bullseye?
What that be "just a metaphor"?
Somehow I think not
Find me someone as forgiving of Biden talking about putting Trump in a bullseye as you are of Trump for instigating a violent insurrection designed to overthrow a democratic vote!
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
Journalist David Aaronovitch is in deep trouble on TwiX because he did a silly tweet that exhorted Biden to do just that, about a week ago: use his immunity to slay Trump via the Secret Service
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
What a fucking mess
Is the “bullseye” Biden Tweet definitely genuine? I see a few different sources for it now.
Everyone needs to calm the hell down with the rhetoric.
Yes. Genuine
“I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,” Biden said
That is a metaphor though, its about putting him in the spotlight.
Yes of course it’s a metaphor, but it’s a rather unfortunate one given subsequent events. Biden’s rhetoric towards Trump has not been that of a normal campaign, but very aggressive and trying to paint his opponent as a threat to the country.
Absolutely true. For the sake of the republic and to stop further escalation, could both sides come together to deplore this?
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
No, but Trump getting shot by a neo-Nazi would be a neat piece of cinematic irony. (I have no idea what the political affiliations of the shooter are.)
They seem mixed. He donated to Democratic causes, but he also joined the Republican party. So maybe a lone confused dude (easily recruited?)
As with JFK, we may never know
The more interesting and potentially revealing details are the remarkably lax security and the slow reactions of secruity agents. The Telegraph is saying the SService were warned FOUR MINUTES before the shooting that there was a gunman on a roof. And it's not an obscure faraway roof, it looks like THE place from which to slot Trump, if you are so minded
The US secret service we see on the TV and in films may not be an accurate depiction of the real secret service. In the clips I saw there were quite a few secret service people struggling to pull out their weapons and generally looking a bit bemused/confused. Maybe the actual president gets the real elite and there is a cascade in quality downwards from there.
I am not sure having a 4ft woman as part of the human shield was a great move....
There were several like that, I think - and then some random state troopers wandering around with semi-automatic rifles not knowing quite what to do. There was clearly a core of highly professional, rapid reaction personnel who were very quick and very effective but the rest looked shambolic.
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
Journalist David Aaronovitch is in deep trouble on TwiX because he did a silly tweet that exhorted Biden to do just that, about a week ago: use his immunity to slay Trump via the Secret Service
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
What a fucking mess
Is the “bullseye” Biden Tweet definitely genuine? I see a few different sources for it now.
Everyone needs to calm the hell down with the rhetoric.
Yes. Genuine
“I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,” Biden said
That is a metaphor though, its about putting him in the spotlight.
Yes of course it’s a metaphor, but it’s a rather unfortunate one given subsequent events. Biden’s rhetoric towards Trump has not been that of a normal campaign, but very aggressive and trying to paint his opponent as a threat to the country.
It's not a metaphor. If it's a metaphor he would have said "spotlight". He didn't say "spotllight" he said "bullseye". That's a metaphor which means "make him a physical target for a shot", and now they've gone and done that, and only just missed the bullseye
I guess the only excuse is that Biden is completely demented, and gets all his words wrong, but the Dems are denying THAT as well
It would be good if Biden got the push for saying it.
Trump's "fight, fight, fight" and raised fist reaction to his shooting was objectively extraordinary. But I am not sure it is going to do him any favours. If you are non-MAGA - ie, you are in the majority among Americans - what you saw encouraged there was a violent response to violence. Combine that with the Year 2025 stuff and the course of a second Trump Presidency is very clearly set out. It will lead to more division and more danger. Independents may not find that particularly attractive.
However, a Trump stumble is predicated entirely on Biden departing the stage. His only possible route to victory is to make voters more scared of Trump than they are of him. That means highly divisive language that can only inflame. This will not work so will deliver Trump victory. A new Democratic candidate offers the opportunity of a total reset in rhetoric and focus. Will it happen? Probably not, unfortunately.
The other thing about what happened yesterday is that it shines a light once again on Europe's total failure to plan for a second Trump term. The UK, Germany and France have been tragically and shamefully complacent. The consequences for our continent could well be catastrophic. Our only hope is that Trump loses. We are entirely dependent on events completely out of our control. What a terrible place to be.
Perhaps you agree with CNN here, that 5 seconds after nearly dying by a gunshot Trump should have "tamped down the rhetoric"
"CNN's Jamie Gangel attacks Trump for saying "Fight! Fight! Fight!" after someone tried to murder him.
Literally, she complains about what he did 5 seconds after he was shot
"That's not the message that we want to being sending right now. We want to tamp it down""
lol. Lefties hate Trump so much they are mental. They are more dangerous than Trump. That is the takeaway here
Nope, I am merely saying that Trump's response revealed his way of seeing the world. It was the natural response of someone who believes that political violence is OK. A lot of Americans, many of them independent voters, do not share that view and may not want to live in an America where it is the view of the government.
Penny Mordaunt used much the same rhetoric - and she’s hardly Donald Trump. I think you read way too much into a spur of the moment reaction.
That Trump has been deploying incendiary rhetoric in undeniable, but you can’t critique the reaction of someone who’s literally just dodged a bullet. Even if his supporters are celebrating the words.
Anyway....I shall be taking a leave of absence from pb.com for a while. Nothing to do with the election result. I have taken on a consultancy role - and part of my requirements are to comply with a strict clampdown on social media postings. (They are cool about the moths, but not my having a take on current affairs.)
So farewell and adieu. I shall continue to lurk, but keep my thoughts to myself until such time as I can again spout off.
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
Journalist David Aaronovitch is in deep trouble on TwiX because he did a silly tweet that exhorted Biden to do just that, about a week ago: use his immunity to slay Trump via the Secret Service
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
What a fucking mess
Is the “bullseye” Biden Tweet definitely genuine? I see a few different sources for it now.
Everyone needs to calm the hell down with the rhetoric.
Yes. Genuine
“I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,” Biden said
That is a metaphor though, its about putting him in the spotlight.
Ah. "Just a metaphor"
Would you be so forgiving if Trump said this, and a weel later someone nearly killed Biden, by putting him in a bullseye?
What that be "just a metaphor"?
Somehow I think not
Find me someone as forgiving of Biden talking about putting Trump in a bullseye as you are of Trump for instigating a violent insurrection designed to overthrow a democratic vote!
I've never "forgiven" Trump for that, it's why - despite loathing the Woke Dems - I have, until now, been hoping they can beat Trump, and arguing endlessly for a replacement of the mad Biden ("ranting on about it") to that end. BTW I'm not sure Trump deliberately instigated an insurrection, I am pretty sure he roiled the waters and didn't do enough to stop it
But after last night? I genuinely dunno. I'd probably vote Trump as the very slightly lesser of two evils
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
If you forment hate and violence then you can't moan when it erupts. Trump is threatening a civil war if he doesn’t win . His comments are inciting violence . The GOP trying to beatify him now is vomit inducing .
There it is. Trump deserves to be shot. That is the real opinion of the Left. That's the comment. Right there
Yes but the left are righteous (as defined by themselves) not right wing deplorables, so for them to do so is understandable and proper,
Given that the PB lefties are now admitting that they want Trump dead and it's a shame he survived because he deserves to be killed, then one can only presume that this was, indeed, a lefty conspiracy to kill Trump
How would you feel about a communist plot to kill Hitler in 1936?
Nervous it might go wrong
But Trump is not Hitler. That is the point. He really isn't. He's a mad narcissist but look what he actually did in office? What he mainly did was boast and make stupid remarks and generally embarrass America, it wasn't a Hitlerite dictatorship. And, by the way, no major wars started on his watch
However the Dems hate him so much they;ve gone entirely mad and they have dialled up the rhetoric to the point where last weak Biden literally encouraged people to kill Trump - "put him in a bullseye"
And now someone has tried to kill him
Trump instigated a violent attack on the US Congress designed to overturn the result of the Presidential election. That's quite embarrassing, to put it mildly.
Quote: ""I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."
Trump's "fight, fight, fight" and raised fist reaction to his shooting was objectively extraordinary. But I am not sure it is going to do him any favours. If you are non-MAGA - ie, you are in the majority among Americans - what you saw encouraged there was a violent response to violence. Combine that with the Year 2025 stuff and the course of a second Trump Presidency is very clearly set out. It will lead to more division and more danger. Independents may not find that particularly attractive.
However, a Trump stumble is predicated entirely on Biden departing the stage. His only possible route to victory is to make voters more scared of Trump than they are of him. That means highly divisive language that can only inflame. This will not work so will deliver Trump victory. A new Democratic candidate offers the opportunity of a total reset in rhetoric and focus. Will it happen? Probably not, unfortunately.
The other thing about what happened yesterday is that it shines a light once again on Europe's total failure to plan for a second Trump term. The UK, Germany and France have been tragically and shamefully complacent. The consequences for our continent could well be catastrophic. Our only hope is that Trump loses. We are entirely dependent on events completely out of our control. What a terrible place to be.
Perhaps you agree with CNN here, that 5 seconds after nearly dying by a gunshot Trump should have "tamped down the rhetoric"
"CNN's Jamie Gangel attacks Trump for saying "Fight! Fight! Fight!" after someone tried to murder him.
Literally, she complains about what he did 5 seconds after he was shot
"That's not the message that we want to being sending right now. We want to tamp it down""
lol. Lefties hate Trump so much they are mental. They are more dangerous than Trump. That is the takeaway here
Nope, I am merely saying that Trump's response revealed his way of seeing the world. It was the natural response of someone who believes that political violence is OK. A lot of Americans, many of them independent voters, do not share that view and may not want to live in an America where it is the view of the government.
Penny Mordaunt used much the same rhetoric - and she’s hardly Donald Trump. I think you read way too much into a spur of the moment reaction.
That Trump has been deploying incendiary rhetoric in undeniable, but you can’t critique the reaction of someone who’s literally just dodged a bullet. Even if his supporters are celebrating the words.
I see it in the context of what Trump has said and done in the past. Penny Mordaunt has never instigated an attempt to violently overthrow the UK government.
The statement is true "The central premise of the Biden campaign is that President Donald Trump is an authoritarian fascist who must be stopped at all costs."
Whether that means the Dems/Biden is responsible for this is another matter. The above rhetoric has gone up a gear very recently though.
That’s simply not true. Democrats leaders are very, very clear that he must be stopped at the ballot box. You don’t save democracy by subverting it.
EDF are looking for investors to put another £5 billion into Hinkley C nuclear power station. Good luck with that!
Those EDF Board members who resigned before the morning before the decision to go ahead was taken are looking like the smartest guys in the room. (It now won't start production until at least 2029 BTW.)
How is this taking so long, over budget erc. I thought the point was this was what EDF knew how to do as they have loads in France?
"In a letter to staff, seen by the BBC, Stuart Crooks, the managing director of Hinkley Point C, said there were 7,000 substantial design changes required by British regulations that needed to be made to the site, with 35% more steel and 25% more concrete needed than originally planned."
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
No, but Trump getting shot by a neo-Nazi would be a neat piece of cinematic irony. (I have no idea what the political affiliations of the shooter are.)
They seem mixed. He donated to Democratic causes, but he also joined the Republican party. So maybe a lone confused dude (easily recruited?)
As with JFK, we may never know
The more interesting and potentially revealing details are the remarkably lax security and the slow reactions of secruity agents. The Telegraph is saying the SService were warned FOUR MINUTES before the shooting that there was a gunman on a roof. And it's not an obscure faraway roof, it looks like THE place from which to slot Trump, if you are so minded
The US secret service we see on the TV and in films may not be an accurate depiction of the real secret service. In the clips I saw there were quite a few secret service people struggling to pull out their weapons and generally looking a bit bemused/confused. Maybe the actual president gets the real elite and there is a cascade in quality downwards from there.
I do hope no bystanders were killed by Secret Service bullets. You might say what does it matter now as nothing can be done for them.
The innocent people who have been killed shouldn't be forgotten.
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
No, but Trump getting shot by a neo-Nazi would be a neat piece of cinematic irony. (I have no idea what the political affiliations of the shooter are.)
They seem mixed. He donated to Democratic causes, but he also joined the Republican party. So maybe a lone confused dude (easily recruited?)
As with JFK, we may never know
The more interesting and potentially revealing details are the remarkably lax security and the slow reactions of secruity agents. The Telegraph is saying the SService were warned FOUR MINUTES before the shooting that there was a gunman on a roof. And it's not an obscure faraway roof, it looks like THE place from which to slot Trump, if you are so minded
The US secret service we see on the TV and in films may not be an accurate depiction of the real secret service. In the clips I saw there were quite a few secret service people struggling to pull out their weapons and generally looking a bit bemused/confused. Maybe the actual president gets the real elite and there is a cascade in quality downwards from there.
I do hope no bystanders were killed by Secret Service bullets. You might say what does it matter now as nothing can be done for them.
The innocent people who have been killed shouldn't be forgotten.
They weren't. An highly credible eye witness who was right by the action and was filming it, said those that got hit, were hit before Trump. The only people who fired afterwards were the secret service snipers who are on film firing in the opposite direction to the crowd towards the shooter.
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
Journalist David Aaronovitch is in deep trouble on TwiX because he did a silly tweet that exhorted Biden to do just that, about a week ago: use his immunity to slay Trump via the Secret Service
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
What a fucking mess
Is the “bullseye” Biden Tweet definitely genuine? I see a few different sources for it now.
Everyone needs to calm the hell down with the rhetoric.
Yes. Genuine
“I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,” Biden said
That is a metaphor though, its about putting him in the spotlight.
Ah. "Just a metaphor"
Would you be so forgiving if Trump said this, and a weel later someone nearly killed Biden, by putting him in a bullseye?
What that be "just a metaphor"?
Somehow I think not
Find me someone as forgiving of Biden talking about putting Trump in a bullseye as you are of Trump for instigating a violent insurrection designed to overthrow a democratic vote!
I've never "forgiven" Trump for that, it's why - despite loathing the Woke Dems - I have, until now, been hoping they can beat Trump, and arguing endlessly for a replacement of the mad Biden ("ranting on about it") to that end. BTW I'm not sure Trump deliberately instigated an insurrection, I am pretty sure he roiled the waters and didn't do enough to stop it
But after last night? I genuinely dunno. I'd probably vote Trump as the very slightly lesser of two evils
Enough with the “ probably “ !
You’re fooling no one . We get it , you like Trump and would happily vote for him .
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
No, but Trump getting shot by a neo-Nazi would be a neat piece of cinematic irony. (I have no idea what the political affiliations of the shooter are.)
They seem mixed. He donated to Democratic causes, but he also joined the Republican party. So maybe a lone confused dude (easily recruited?)
As with JFK, we may never know
The more interesting and potentially revealing details are the remarkably lax security and the slow reactions of secruity agents. The Telegraph is saying the SService were warned FOUR MINUTES before the shooting that there was a gunman on a roof. And it's not an obscure faraway roof, it looks like THE place from which to slot Trump, if you are so minded
The US secret service we see on the TV and in films may not be an accurate depiction of the real secret service. In the clips I saw there were quite a few secret service people struggling to pull out their weapons and generally looking a bit bemused/confused. Maybe the actual president gets the real elite and there is a cascade in quality downwards from there.
My ex SAS friend told me some interesting stuff about the US military/security/intel world a few days ago (he is half American, his dad lives there, they are all linked to the military)
He told me they all hate Trump. Probably "all" is a bit of an exaggeration but his point sounds good: they despise Trump as anti-patriotic, and as contemptuous of American soldiers ("the losers are dead in the cemetery"). they abhor the way he treated Maitlis and war-hero McCain, and so on
In that context it is believeable that the security service maybe didn't do their very very best to save him?
It seems extremely unlikely. For the very treasons they don’t like Trump, they believe in doing their duty.
It’s common knowledge the military don’t like him, and to an unusual extent have voted Democrat in the last couple of elections.
This drama is all very entertaining, I am especially enjoying the PB lefties shrugging and saying "who cares, he deserves to die, I'm sad they missed" - but this is also really really really really shit
It is hard to see how this ends without much greater violence, now
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
No, but Trump getting shot by a neo-Nazi would be a neat piece of cinematic irony. (I have no idea what the political affiliations of the shooter are.)
Has Trump ever participated in neo-nazi behaviour or sought out their support? No seriously, has he?
Anyway....I shall be taking a leave of absence from pb.com for a while. Nothing to do with the election result. I have taken on a consultancy role - and part of my requirements are to comply with a strict clampdown on social media postings. (They are cool about the moths, but not my having a take on current affairs.)
So farewell and adieu. I shall continue to lurk, but keep my thoughts to myself until such time as I can again spout off.
Toodle-pip!
Hey mate, sad to see you go!
Like @RochdalePioneers says, can't you post even more anonymously? There aren't many righties remaining on here, we need voices like yours
If not, fare thee well. Hope to see you again, some day
I assume he is going to - he can hardly acknowledge the fact though can he?
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
Journalist David Aaronovitch is in deep trouble on TwiX because he did a silly tweet that exhorted Biden to do just that, about a week ago: use his immunity to slay Trump via the Secret Service
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
What a fucking mess
Is the “bullseye” Biden Tweet definitely genuine? I see a few different sources for it now.
Everyone needs to calm the hell down with the rhetoric.
Yes. Genuine
“I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,” Biden said
That is a metaphor though, its about putting him in the spotlight.
Ah. "Just a metaphor"
Would you be so forgiving if Trump said this, and a weel later someone nearly killed Biden, by putting him in a bullseye?
What that be "just a metaphor"?
Somehow I think not
Find me someone as forgiving of Biden talking about putting Trump in a bullseye as you are of Trump for instigating a violent insurrection designed to overthrow a democratic vote!
I've never "forgiven" Trump for that, it's why - despite loathing the Woke Dems - I have, until now, been hoping they can beat Trump, and arguing endlessly for a replacement of the mad Biden ("ranting on about it") to that end. BTW I'm not sure Trump deliberately instigated an insurrection, I am pretty sure he roiled the waters and didn't do enough to stop it
But after last night? I genuinely dunno. I'd probably vote Trump as the very slightly lesser of two evils
Enough with the “ probably “ !
You’re fooling no one . We get it , you like Trump and would happily vote for him .
You can believe what you like. I'm being honest. Just as you are being honest in saying you want Trump dead and you're sad they missed because he deserves it
The US secret service we see on the TV and in films may not be an accurate depiction of the real secret service. In the clips I saw there were quite a few secret service people struggling to pull out their weapons and generally looking a bit bemused/confused. Maybe the actual president gets the real elite and there is a cascade in quality downwards from there.
The Secret Service has had repeated issues with agent conduct, and recruitment and retainment problems as well. Since the Global War on Terror the Secret Service has lost a lot of prestige to other government agencies, there are lots of alternative roles at the CIA, FBI, DOS, as well as other parts of the DHS.
Anyway....I shall be taking a leave of absence from pb.com for a while. Nothing to do with the election result. I have taken on a consultancy role - and part of my requirements are to comply with a strict clampdown on social media postings. (They are cool about the moths, but not my having a take on current affairs.)
So farewell and adieu. I shall continue to lurk, but keep my thoughts to myself until such time as I can again spout off.
Toodle-pip!
Hey mate, sad to see you go!
Like @RochdalePioneers says, can't you post even more anonymously? There aren't many righties remaining on here, we need voices like yours
If not, fare thee well. Hope to see you again, some day
Cheers all, I will be back. And when I do, I trust I will be able to explain my absence with a fanfare.
Til then, play nice. I will be watching, keeping notes...
(My Good Lady Wife will also be busy, filming a Rose Tremain story, probably two, with a bipic of Marian Faithful in between. What bit of time we have not taken up by work should probably be spent together, rather than my being on pb.com!
...but if the Spirit of Brian Clough should start posting, around the time of the US election maybe, I might have sneaked out to play for a bit!)
Anyway....I shall be taking a leave of absence from pb.com for a while. Nothing to do with the election result. I have taken on a consultancy role - and part of my requirements are to comply with a strict clampdown on social media postings. (They are cool about the moths, but not my having a take on current affairs.)
So farewell and adieu. I shall continue to lurk, but keep my thoughts to myself until such time as I can again spout off.
Toodle-pip!
Hey mate, sad to see you go!
Like @RochdalePioneers says, can't you post even more anonymously? There aren't many righties remaining on here, we need voices like yours
If not, fare thee well. Hope to see you again, some day
Cheers all, I will be back. And when I do, I trust I will be able to explain my absence with a fanfare.
Til then, play nice. I will be watching, keeping notes...
(My Good Lady Wife will also be busy, filming a Rose Tremain story, probably two, with a bipic of Marian Faithful in between. What bit of time we have not taken up by work should probably be spent together, rather than my being on pb.com!
...but if the Spirit of Brian Clough should start posting, around the time of the US election maybe, I might have sneaked out to play for a bit!)
Enjoy!
Also, if your fine lady wife needs some insider info on Marianne, a friend of mine got to know her very well in her later years, and she has told him many stories. DM me if you want a contact
EDF are looking for investors to put another £5 billion into Hinkley C nuclear power station. Good luck with that!
Those EDF Board members who resigned before the morning before the decision to go ahead was taken are looking like the smartest guys in the room. (It now won't start production until at least 2029 BTW.)
How is this taking so long, over budget erc. I thought the point was this was what EDF knew how to do as they have loads in France?
"In a letter to staff, seen by the BBC, Stuart Crooks, the managing director of Hinkley Point C, said there were 7,000 substantial design changes required by British regulations that needed to be made to the site, with 35% more steel and 25% more concrete needed than originally planned."
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
No, but Trump getting shot by a neo-Nazi would be a neat piece of cinematic irony. (I have no idea what the political affiliations of the shooter are.)
They seem mixed. He donated to Democratic causes, but he also joined the Republican party. So maybe a lone confused dude (easily recruited?)
As with JFK, we may never know
The more interesting and potentially revealing details are the remarkably lax security and the slow reactions of secruity agents. The Telegraph is saying the SService were warned FOUR MINUTES before the shooting that there was a gunman on a roof. And it's not an obscure faraway roof, it looks like THE place from which to slot Trump, if you are so minded
The US secret service we see on the TV and in films may not be an accurate depiction of the real secret service. In the clips I saw there were quite a few secret service people struggling to pull out their weapons and generally looking a bit bemused/confused. Maybe the actual president gets the real elite and there is a cascade in quality downwards from there.
My ex SAS friend told me some interesting stuff about the US military/security/intel world a few days ago (he is half American, his dad lives there, they are all linked to the military)
He told me they all hate Trump. Probably "all" is a bit of an exaggeration but his point sounds good: they despise Trump as anti-patriotic, and as contemptuous of American soldiers ("the losers are dead in the cemetery"). they abhor the way he treated Maitlis and war-hero McCain, and so on
In that context it is believeable that the security service maybe didn't do their very very best to save him?
It's a rare breed that would take a bullet for their boss. It must be rarer when that boss is Trump.
Given the rulings of the Supreme Court he could simply have ordered the Secret Service to do it as an official act.
If Biden wins again we're likely getting a few years of whatever 'official acts' Hunter wants doing.
I suspect said "official" acts of Hunter and a few others lie behind the desperate attempts to stop Joe standing down and continuing to give them cover.
That had occurred to me too. The Biden family needing the protection of the Presidency. Pretty awful position to be in. Everyone locked in a sort of awful end game together.
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
Obviously, yes. If he doesn't, who does?
Why? He's an arse, but is that enough for him to be murdered? That is just madness.
More than an arse. He's evil and the world is a worse place for his presence. However if he were to die by political violence it could trigger god knows what. Best that his attempt to regain the WH is thwarted some other way.
You reap what you sow . Trump has become a conduit for hate and violence.
So Trump deserves to get shot?
No, but Trump getting shot by a neo-Nazi would be a neat piece of cinematic irony. (I have no idea what the political affiliations of the shooter are.)
They seem mixed. He donated to Democratic causes, but he also joined the Republican party. So maybe a lone confused dude (easily recruited?)
As with JFK, we may never know
The more interesting and potentially revealing details are the remarkably lax security and the slow reactions of secruity agents. The Telegraph is saying the SService were warned FOUR MINUTES before the shooting that there was a gunman on a roof. And it's not an obscure faraway roof, it looks like THE place from which to slot Trump, if you are so minded
The US secret service we see on the TV and in films may not be an accurate depiction of the real secret service. In the clips I saw there were quite a few secret service people struggling to pull out their weapons and generally looking a bit bemused/confused. Maybe the actual president gets the real elite and there is a cascade in quality downwards from there.
That why I posted the Reagan shooting clip upthread; same thing, but less competent in getting around the President to protect him.
Their sniper(s) seem(s) to have reacted quite quickly once they realised what was happening. Without an automatic weapon, the shooter would probably have only got a couple of shots off, rather than half a dozen.
Comments
He is now claiming that people are threatening HIM
What a fucking mess
Putting it simply America is tearing itself apart. Culturally, morally, politically. My impression of the country when I travelled round it in 1997 was of a zoo, because Americans in some states were completely different creatures to Americans in other states. Perhaps "The American Dream" bound them altogether somehow, but whatever did has gone away.
Red America repulses Blue America repulses Red America. And its no longer just on fringe issues, its on core values and beliefs. Neither party has proven capable of trying to smooth off the edges and restate the shared ideals. And no other option is possible because the duopoly crushes 3rd parties and independents.
Regardless of which side wins the election, America will continue to tear itself apart at a greater speed. But if its Trump, that tearing will be bloody and it will be terminal. And the tragedy/comedy is that the right think the exact same thing if Trump loses.
In the shock of such incidents, people in general aren't thinking clearly and calculatingly.
That's a name swap I often do - they both had a pair of glasses and a smile.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKI7-x8sSCM
And Mr Dictator from Day 1 won't be shy using his new powers.
So why shouldn't Biden pass his own Enabling Order? Oh yeah, because he thinks he isn't above the law, and *shouldn't* be above the law. Which is why he will lose.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68073279
2) in addition to "immunity" he now has "justification" in seeking harsh police state security policies
3) I don't think this is the last extreme event in the US election
I have a hard time seeing where this ends for our American cousins .... they are becoming a political mad house. I wonder if it could all suddenly come flying apart.
"We’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye."
... was directly inflammatory, and encouraging people to shoot Trump dead?
Because it very obviously inflammatory, and it was literally encouraging people to shoot Trump dead
Everyone needs to calm the hell down with the rhetoric.
A deplorable series of actions which have put him away for thirty years, but this is not the same as climbing onto a building and trying to blow the head of a presidential candidate.
Send in Inspector Dimbleby.
Nick Cohen
@NickCohen4
The UK and the EU need to be ready for the potential collapse of the US as a functioning state
https://x.com/NickCohen4/status/1812344221140926629
Eh?
As with JFK, we may never know
The more interesting and potentially revealing details are the remarkably lax security and the slow reactions of secruity agents. The Telegraph is saying the SService were warned FOUR MINUTES before the shooting that there was a gunman on a roof. And it's not an obscure faraway roof, it looks like THE place from which to slot Trump, if you are so minded
If anyone has noticed names of self-identified disabled MPs - which means saying publicly they have an impairment or long-term condition which signficantly impacts how they can live, could you reply.
I just spotted my first fairy story - "Now there may be NINE disabled MPs in the Commons".
Of the 650 MPs elected last week, there may now be at least nine who identify as disabled people – compared to possibly as few as five in the last parliament – with further MPs who self-describe as disabled likely to emerge in the coming months.
https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/trio-of-new-disabled-mps-join-house-of-commons/
My list without breaking sweat is already well over 20, even though 335 MPs are brand new and unknown. Last time I did this when there were "Five", it was childsplay to find around 40.
I don't like how such claims turn debate into "what an awful place this is", "why so few", "all disabled shortlists" etc, pandering to the partisan - especially as that process rubs out understanding of the range of disabled people in our political process. And that latter is where debate needs to be.
Thanks
But consider where Putin was in 2020. Someone who had attempted to reassert Russian influence over eastern Europe was facing almost total defeat. Nato and the EU expanded, Ukraine completely west facing (apart from the bits he had occupied), losing in Moldova and on the verge of losing Belarus. Russian influence in its near abroad would have been gone. Has his going for broke strategy reversed that? Unclear. The full economic impact has yet to be felt. And his clients insist on being paid.
Increase pay and benefits for other ranks
Fix the housing
Stockpile massive amounts of ammo
More road transport
Bring stuff like airfield operations back in house from Serco/Capita
“I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,” Biden said
https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/07/08/congress/defiant-biden-tells-donors-were-done-with-the-debate-00166834
It'd throw out the whole rules based global order, which is entirely underwritten by the US.
I suspect though a lot of people this morning are very relieved that the assasin is a white male of seemingly English or other northern (western) European heritage. Not a person of colour, female or of undetermined gender or associated with any "controversial" state.
https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/07/08/congress/defiant-biden-tells-donors-were-done-with-the-debate-00166834
Twitter has community noted the screenshots of a Tweet by Biden as being false, but notes that the quote is as reported by Politico last week.
https://x.com/joshuasteinman/status/1812336975095214555
A defiant President Joe Biden insisted to his donors on Monday that he is “done talking about the debate” and implored the party to ignore any further distractions and direct its attention back to Donald Trump.
“We need to move forward. Look, we have roughly 40 days til the convention, 120 days til the election. We can’t waste any more time being distracted,” Biden said in a private call with donors Monday, according to a recording obtained by POLITICO.
“I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,” Biden said.
The forceful message from Biden — which was delivered to hundreds of top Democratic donors and bundlers in the president's National Finance Committee — is the latest evidence that the president and his allies are working furiously to stem defections in the party.
Somewhat unfortunate language from the president, given subsequent events, but yet another example of everyone needing to calm down a little.
But Trump is not Hitler. That is the point. He really isn't. He's a mad narcissist but look what he actually did in office? What he mainly did was boast and make stupid remarks and generally embarrass America, it wasn't a Hitlerite dictatorship. And, by the way, no major wars started on his watch
However the Dems hate him so much they;ve gone entirely mad and they have dialled up the rhetoric to the point where last weak Biden literally encouraged people to kill Trump - "put him in a bullseye"
And now someone has tried to kill him
https://x.com/jdvance1/status/1812280973628965109?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
He told me they all hate Trump. Probably "all" is a bit of an exaggeration but his point sounds good: they despise Trump as anti-patriotic, and as contemptuous of American soldiers ("the losers are dead in the cemetery"). they abhor the way he treated Maitlis and war-hero McCain, and so on
In that context it is believeable that the security service maybe didn't do their very very best to save him?
Whether that means the Dems/Biden is responsible for this is another matter. The above rhetoric has gone up a gear very recently though.
VP possible JD Vance has already made a statement specifically blaming the Democrats, using the Leon argument.
See Gaza.
Would you be so forgiving if Trump said this, and a week later someone nearly killed Biden, by putting him in a bullseye?
What that be "just a metaphor"?
Somehow I think not
I guess the only excuse is that Biden is completely demented, and gets all his words wrong, but the Dems are denying THAT as well
I think you read way too much into a spur of the moment reaction.
That Trump has been deploying incendiary rhetoric in undeniable, but you can’t critique the reaction of someone who’s literally just dodged a bullet.
Even if his supporters are celebrating the words.
Sorry to see you go
But after last night? I genuinely dunno. I'd probably vote Trump as the very slightly lesser of two evils
""I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."
Democrats leaders are very, very clear that he must be stopped at the ballot box. You don’t save democracy by subverting it.
The innocent people who have been killed shouldn't be forgotten.
You’re fooling no one . We get it , you like Trump and would happily vote for him .
For the very treasons they don’t like Trump, they believe in doing their duty.
It’s common knowledge the military don’t like him, and to an unusual extent have voted Democrat in the last couple of elections.
It is hard to see how this ends without much greater violence, now
Til then, play nice. I will be watching, keeping notes...
(My Good Lady Wife will also be busy, filming a Rose Tremain story, probably two, with a bipic of Marian Faithful in between. What bit of time we have not taken up by work should probably be spent together, rather than my being on pb.com!
...but if the Spirit of Brian Clough should start posting, around the time of the US election maybe, I might have sneaked out to play for a bit!)
Also, if your fine lady wife needs some insider info on Marianne, a friend of mine got to know her very well in her later years, and she has told him many stories. DM me if you want a contact
But it is nice to see that it is Civil & Structural who have bollocksed up on their MTO, and nowt to do with Process or Mechanical.
Plans for £2.3bn ‘Venice of Britain’ new town scrapped
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/plans-for-solents-23bn-venice-of-britain-town-scrapped/
Their sniper(s) seem(s) to have reacted quite quickly once they realised what was happening. Without an automatic weapon, the shooter would probably have only got a couple of shots off, rather than half a dozen.